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Messages - Subramanian.R

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10621
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 06, 2015, 07:09:54 AM »



One needs outside help, till we understand and arrive at that state of non-dualism.
It starts from the womb.  Suppose mother denies that the food she eats should not go to the
child in the womb and the child should take care of its problem, can the child survive?
Can you cure your stomach pain or cataract in the eye by meditating within?  Don't you need a
doctor outside?  This outside help from God or Guru is called Grace. With people
in the world it is called love or compassion.

There is a story about Ribhu Gita, Tamizh translation, by Ulaganatha Swamigal, [Bhikshu Sastrigal].
He completed Ribhu Gita, with no invocation song on God, no mention about God throughout the book!  Nataraja wanted to teach him a lesson.  As soon as he completed the book, he became blind.
He suffered for a while.  Then slowly he started praying to Nataraja of Chidambaram. Nataraja
appeared in his dream, and told him:  Have you become that great to write a book
without seeking Vinayaka's help and my grace?  Include an invocation song and also as a
punishment, you add a song on me, at the end of each chapter of Ribhu Gita.  Ulaganatha Swamigal
dictated these songs and asked his disciple to write them out at the end of each chapter and
then submitted the entire work to Siva Nataraja of Chidambaram and prayed.  He got back his eye sight!
This is mentioned graphically in Sri Ramansramam's book and also in the wonderful English verse
translation by Dr. H. Ramamoorthy and Nome by Society for Abidance in Truth, SAT, California. 

Arunachala Siva. 

10622
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 06, 2015, 07:05:38 AM »


Nikeshepam or Treasure in the treasure of a Jnani, his
Brama Jnana.  This has to be transmitted to the disciple,
who has got faith and conviction in him.  Without this
transmission of Guru, one cannot have atmajnana by one's
own efforts unless he passes through several births, vide
the starting verses of Viveka Choodamani.

Arunachala Siva.


10623
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 06, 2015, 07:04:36 AM »

During Bhagavan Ramana's time, when they renovating Arunachaleswara Temple, they found a
stone slab near the Siva Linga, and on removing it, they found a dark tunnel.  They immediately
rushed to Bhagavan and asked Him what to do. Bhagavan Ramana said: "Do not try to investigate
the tunnel. Please close the stone slab, as it was before."  Arunachala Puranam says that yogis,
siddhas and jnanis who are living in the Hill as forms of bright lights, come through the tunnel,
in their subtle bodies and pray to Arunachaleswara at night. Arachelogists have in fact found that
the Hill is as old as the earth itself, geologically, say about 3 billion years old and is older than Himalayas.
But if they try to dig it and find something, they would find nothing, since the treasures may not be
visible to their biological eyes.  Recently, some company took lease of the far-western portion
of the Hill, and wanted to dig and take ferro-aluminum alloy ore.  People in the villages nearby protested
and the project was abandoned under a High Court Order. It is like Mackenna's Gold.  Gold is there
in the Appachian Mountains, but if any one tries to take it, they will not return alive.

Arunachala Siva.   

10624
Analogies drawn from the Origin and Nature of the Universe:

Science tells us that the universe was at first confined to a very small space, and that it
underwent a cataclysmic explosion, called the Big Bang.  Its mass then  started flying out
in all directions at unimaginable speeds. In those initial stages, the universe did not have
the vast diversity that we see in it today, and was largely homogeneous.  Spirituality similarly
holds that Brahman (or the Self), from which is evolved this multifarious universe, is by itself
homogeneous.  (Eka rasam).

Science is based on causality.  It should therefore follow that the entire course of events after
the big bang were shaped by the initial momentum created by the big bang, there being no
scope for any other cause to operate. Evolution is expected to continue indefinitely.   The lower
rungs of spirituality assert analogously that the entire phenomena in the world, including the
subjective feelings, are predetermined.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.     

10625
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: December 05, 2015, 01:08:44 PM »
Then, who is it that knows such an Atman?

No one can see the Atman. All that can be seen belong to the category of Drsya, the seen
and the seeable. The Atman is the Drk, the seer.  It is understandable to itself by self intuition,
it being the guarantee of the existence of all that is seen.   An object like a pot cannot see the
subject who sees it.  That seer does not require another seer to reveal himself. The seer knows
himself by intuition i.e. without the aid of any other.   It is Svayam-prakasa, self revealing.
Ten friends crossed the river.  On the other bank they counted themselves.  The man who counted,
only counted the other nine.  He left out himself.  The others who counted, only counted also did
likewise. So they all came to the conclusion that the tenth man was drowned. They set up a wail.
Then a passerby pointed out that the man who counted was the tenth man, who was feared to
have drowned.  It was he man who counted who gained this realization. Likewise, the Atman has
to be realized through one's own experience.  It cannot be known through another's experience.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.           

10626
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: December 05, 2015, 12:57:23 PM »
How can we know the unchangeableness of the Atman?

One cannot see the beauty of one's own face by oneself.  But one can see it with the help of a
mirror where one's face is reflected. In the same way, the unchangeableness of the Atman can
be understood through the reflection of the Atman in the reflector called Antahkarana.   The
reflecting mirror and the reflected image of the face in the mirror cannot see the original of which
it is the reflection. In the same way, though the original, the Atman, is always presented unchanging,
the reflecting medium, the Antahkarana and the reflected image, the Jiva, do not know the existence
of the original, the Atman.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.   

10627
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: December 05, 2015, 12:50:23 PM »
What is that Atman which is witness and distinct from the Jiva?  What is the proof of such an
Atman's existence?  What are its signs?  What is the way to know it?

A Witness is the one who is unchanging and movement-less.  The Atman alone satisfies these
conditions.  This Atman is all pervading like the sky.  It is Sat Chit Ananda.  It is this all pervading
Atman alone that is called Jiva when it pervades the mind as a reflection in it.  It is this reflected
consciousness called the Jiva that is involved in repeated births and deaths.  The proof of the existence
of such unchanging and uninvolved pure Consciousness known as Atman is the statements
of the texts of the Vedanta.

It is this reflected consciousness that is subject to the three states of waking, dream and deep sleep.
It is this reflected consciousness called the Jiva who is sometimes in a happy state, sometimes in
sorrowful states and sometimes in a state of indifference. The pure Consciousness is the witness
uninvolved in any change, or the changes of the Jiva in waking, dream and sleep.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.           

10628
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: December 05, 2015, 12:41:00 PM »
Why is it that the Jiva is changing i.e.growth and decay?

The Jiva, getting identified with the mind, feels 'sometimes I am in a sorrowful state and sometimes
in the joyful state'.  Thus the Jiva becomes one with or is submerged in the changing condition of
the mind.  So the Jiva is called changeful.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.

10629
General Discussion / Re: Laghu Vasudeva Mananam:
« on: December 05, 2015, 12:38:36 PM »
In deep sleep, the mind gets dissolved and disappears.  How can there then a reflection as Jiva
as stated by you?  If there is no reflector, there can be no reflection.  The Jiva is therefore non
existent.  How can a non existent Jiva be a witness of the state of sleep?

According to the rule or proposition that the witness should be the same for all three states,
it is the same Atman, the original witness of all the three states.  It is easy for you to understand
that one and the same Atman is the witness of waking and dream states.  As the Jiva has growth
and subsistence, the state of witness-hood cannot be attributed to the Jiva, as the Witness should
be unchanging.  The Atman is unchanging, without growth or decay. So only the Atman can be the
witness of all the states.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.       

10630
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: December 05, 2015, 12:08:28 PM »
60.


புல்லன வாகா வகையுல
    கத்துப் புணர்ந்தனவும்
சொல்லின வுந்நய மாக்கிச்
    சுடர்பொற் குவடுதனி
வில்லனை வாழ்த்தி விளங்கும்
    கயிலைப்புக் கானென்பரால்
கல்லன மாமதில் சூழ்கட
    வூரினில் காரியையே.(60)


Kaari Naayanaar

Kaariyaar of Katarur, devotee of Siva,
Was famed for serving the servitors
That never were given to low things,
That ever were poised in Siva that
Arched Meru for the good of the world,
He went to Kayilai, sat beneath Siva  shade.


Arunachala Siva.

10631
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: December 05, 2015, 12:05:29 PM »
59.



நன்னக ராய விருக்குவே
    ளூர்தனில் நல்குரவாய்ப்
பொன்னக ராயநல் தில்லை
    புகுந்து புலீச்சரத்து
மன்னவ ராய வரற்குநற்
    புல்லால் விளக்கெரித்தான்
கன்னவில் தோளெந்தை தந்தை
    பிரானெம் கணம்புல்லனே. (59)



Kanampullar Nayanar:

Kanampullar ruled over Rukkuveloor;
He lit lamps at Puleeccuram, the auric
Thillai city for the Linga; lost all wealth;
Learning the service not, he cut the grass
Kanampuli, gold it, got oil for lamps
And lit the lamps. Thus his service was ever on.


Arunachala Siva.

10632
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: December 05, 2015, 12:02:11 PM »
58.


பல்லவை செங்கதி ரோனைப்
    பறித்தவன் பாதம்புகழ்
சொல்லவன் தென்புக லூரரன்
    பால்துய்ய செம்பொன்கொள்ள
வல்லவன் நாட்டியத் தான்குடி
    மாணிக்க வண்ணனுக்கு
நல்லவன் தன்பதி நாவலூ
    ராகின்ற நன்னகரே. (58)


Sundaramoorthy Naayanaar

Sundarar of Navaloor lording it
Was of valiant words to praise the feet of
The one that knocked the teeth of Red sun;
He got gold from South  Pukaloor Sivam,
He is the violent devotee; was the friend
Of Ruby hued lord Dance  in  form at Thillai.


Arunachala Siva.

10633
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: December 05, 2015, 11:59:37 AM »
57.


சத்தித் தடக்கைக் குமரன்நற்
    றாதைதன் தானமெல்லாம்
முத்திப் பதமொரொர் வெண்பா
    மொழிந்து முடியரசா
மத்திற்கு மும்மைநன் தாளரற்
    காயயம் ஏற்றலென்னும்
பத்திக் கடல் ஐயடிகளா
    கின்றநம் பல்லவனே. (57)   


Ayyatikal Kaatavan Konaar

Ayyati of Kanchi Pallava clan, was
A servitor king. Sang he a venba each
To all abodes of Kumara the lancer He handed
Over the royal rights to His son
And to (Thillai) the spatium went.


Arunachala Siva.

10634
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: December 05, 2015, 11:57:23 AM »
56.



கிரிவில் லவர்தம் மடியரைத்
    தன்முன்பு கீழ்மைசொன்ன
திருவில் லவரையந் நாவரி
    வோன்திருந் தாரைவெல்லும்
வரிவில் லவன்வயல் செங்கழு
    நீரின் மருவுதென்றல்
தெருவில் விரைமக ழுந்தென்
    வரிஞ்சைத் திகழ்சத்தியே. (56)

Satthi Naayanaar

Satthi of Varinchai would cut
The tongues of the cavilers that spoke
Less of servitors who would arch
Meru even; for such ones were sans
Gnosis good. Satthi would deem
Them all rank fell foes of low speech.

Arunachala Siva.

10635
General topics / Re: Tevaram - Some select verses.
« on: December 05, 2015, 11:54:48 AM »
55.


கம்பக் கரிக்குஞ் சிலந்திக்கும்
    நல்கிய கண்ணுதலோன்
உம்பர்க்கு நாதற் கொளிவிளக்
    கேற்றற் குடலிலனாய்க்
கும்பத் தயிலம்விற் றுஞ்செக்
    குழன்றுங்கொள் கூலியினால்
நம்பற் கெரித்த கலியொற்றி
    மாநகர்ச் சக்கிரியே. (55)

Kaliya Naayanaar

Kaliyar of Orriyoor, for want of wealth
To provide for lighting the lamps of Lords
Toiled menially and served ceaselessly.
Lord's grace to Tusker tethered and spider
Elsewhere he recalled; Lord's melopic eye
He felt and attained Lord's feet.

Arunachala Siva.

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