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Messages - srkudai

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76
Dear Ravi ji,
     :) Yes its possible that thoughts do not arise.

If we do not talk [observe physical mauna] for a long time it would be a little difficult to start talking.
The same thing holds for mind too. when the mind does not talk for a long time, it takes some time to get it back to the thinking habit. Just as we might need a little effort to stop mind, it might require effort to make mind active again.

The crux of the understanding however is : whether mind is active or inactive, i remain ever untouched by the mind itself.

This is a very deep understanding. Movements in mind are seen as "That" ... like a mirage.  Not theoretically but really during the day to day activities.

In order to get to this simple understanding, however its important to revert to just be again and again.

Love!
Silence

77
Dear Anil ji,
      :) You are a wise person, i do not arrogate myself to be someone who can teach you ... that too via an online forum.
These are only a few thoughts that I shared, nothing personal ... i cannot know about you through your online posts and even if i can, it has no value for me.
my sharing in this and other forums are only my sadhana and nothing to teach people about.


Love!
Silence 

78
Dear Ravi ji,
         :)

The purpose of sharing that video on Vipassana is not to explain about Sri SNGoenka's Vipassana :) ... i have heard lot of good things about it but i myself did not do it... the purpose of sharing that video was only to point out the level of conditioned responses we carry ... its very very deep... the idea is to elaborate upon the general method of taking the Guru Vakyas and internalizing them.

In Buddhism there are two methods : shamata and vipassana.
Shamata is to get extremely calm , relaxed and mindful.
vipassana is about observing to gain insight.
one has to become mindful and calm in order to gain insights and in order to sink in the teachings to a deeper level of consciousness. until we employ these teachings to remove the vasanas and wrong notions, we will remain conditioned. This is what i feel. ofcourse mind is bound to be ever conditioned and i as Self am never conditioned, yet , for me to not identify with the stream of thoughts that pass in the mind, a certain level of mindfulness is a prerequisite. once this is there , the teaching automatically starts to flower and work by itself.

Only when i convert the guru vakyas into insights would i be able to live the truth completely. i am of the opinion that most people [which should include me] have not fully internalized the guru vakyas and the only way to do it is to start looking at the world through this teaching and remaining calm [shamata]. together ... they would pave way for a deep understanding which transforms our lives.

:) I am not trying to teach anything ... just sharing a few thoughts. This sharing is my own sadhana as well.

Love!
Silence

79
Quote
From Nan Yar

Since all living beings desire to be always happy without what is called misery, since for everyone the greatest love is only for oneself, and since happiness alone is the cause of love, [in order] to attain that happiness, which is one's own [true] nature that is experienced daily in [dreamless] sleep, which is devoid of the mind, oneself knowing oneself is necessary. For that, jnāna-vicāra [knowledge-investigation] 'who am I' alone is the principal means
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Friends,

Let us meditate on this teaching. But before we do that I would like to encourage you to take a look at the following video:


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixu4Kd5R1DI&t=213s

we are very conditioned in most of our responses. The fact is we have been feeding our mind with wrong ideas for a very long time. since childhood i have believed that i am this body, and happiness is in certain sensations and some success etc... i have been telling this and reinforcing this again and again to my mind. Now when i suddenly tell it the opposite it does not really "get" it. Most of these conditioned responses and beliefs have become automatic and very fast. The new information may sound reasonable and logical and yet it does not have the capacity to undo the conditioned feelings/ responses.

So the first thing we need to do if we have to reeducate this mind is :

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1. Slow Down and Observe. Relax and become mindful.

slowing down and observing is really different from observing at our normal pace. when our mind is at its normal pace, it is not really observing, it misses a lot of stuff. that is why one needs to slow down a little and then see what is happening ... what is happening at the level of the body and the mind. when i observe the sensations of the body, am i observing the body or the mind ? sensation is really at the mental level. Its really observation. Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi said "Trace the source of mind". That means, see whence is the thought/feeling/reaction arising from. As we slow down and observe carefully, we can see from where is this voice arising.

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2. trace the voice/feeling . observe. It is like paying attention to see where is a sound arising from or like a dog sniffing to find the source of a smell.

We have a certain feeling and we have now slowed down completely and are very mindfully observing [very relaxed and mindful] ...but instead of just observing the thought, we are trying to trace the root ... who is this person who has this kind of thought/feeling ? We see two things: the wrong notions are seen as wrong notions and also ... we see that there is really no person out there ... infact these thoughts / feelings have no person in the background ... they are just idea floating in space if i may say so.

When we are relaxed and mindful we shall be able to see more clearly ... and the secret is, there is no one ... but this is not something to be held onto with force... this is a direct seeing , here and now. and in that observation / presence is pure joy or happiness of Self -- there is really no where to go , nothing to do. life itself is a pure joy. Living is indeed simply being.

I might have jumped the guns :)

Love!
Silence

80
Dear Ravi ji,
     :) Thanks for starting this thread.

Happiness is not in the outside world, but within : this is a very significant understanding.
If only we are done with seeking it outside , what is inside shines by itself.

Love!
Silence

81
Dear Anil ji,
       :)
Please take your time. There is no hurry.

Love!
Silence

82
fidelity to ramana is not equal to claiming ramana is of a different sect
by saying that ramana is saying the same truth as sankara ... nothing new is added... his greatness is not diminished
if u see greatness diminished this way, its purely an outlook based on ego isnt it ?

In fact, if self inquiry is understood as different from other methods taught in scriptures --- i am confident it is not understood.
:)
and please do not give me that "if only you practiced" refrain ... i do practice it and saying i only have "theoretical knowledge" ... could be a play of ego .


83
Dear Anil ji,
          :)

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but all the same, they pointed different methods or ways

why do we speak in past tense, are they dead and Gone ? if not, and if they are still revealing ... be assured they are revealing what is best for you right now ... it could be self inquiry and being ever alive , they do not definitely lack the knowledge of self inquiry. A Buddhist following Buddha may land up with Self inquiry ... everyone , in any system who realized had to land up on that. no alternative.

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The ADVENT of Bhagwan Sri Ramana happened, in my view, because the time for the Vichara, to be followed by one and all, everywhere, at all times, and not only in Hermitage by advanced devotees, had come. 

But that time did not come earlier ? :) before Ramana there was never a need for Vichara ?

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I am of the firm opinion that fidelity to one's Guru and His Teaching is absolutely essential to progress in the realm of spirituality.

What would Ramana have said if someone were to say "Bhagwan Sri Ramana is unique to say the least" ?
if he would disagree , where is fidelity in saying this when he himself did not claim so ?
and would Ramana have said "X is of a different guru, Y is my own ?"
Please ponder. just think what would Ramana have commented if he were listening to this discussion of ours.

Love!
Silence



84
Dear Anil ji,
      :)

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I sometimes wonder at the queer attempt some who owe self-admittedly allegiance to some other Gurus make only to prove that there is nothing new or fresh or radical about Bhagwan Sri Ramana's Revelation.   

I did not know that there is another guru, sorry for that Anil ji.
I was of the opinion that there is only One Guru ...


"allegiance " :)  ? is it a political party Anil ji?


Love!
Silence


85
Prelude To Verse 3:
---------------------

Lets summarize the essence of first two verses of upadesha saram. These verses talk about "karma" and how "karma and the results that accrue because of them" cannot lead us to fulfillment. not only do these not lead us to fulfillment, they also leave us more wanting and empty within. This is the main point. We would waste away our whole life in seeking fulfillment through the world outside. The outside world is like a mirage that cannot lead us to satisfaction. Even as a glass of water in a mirror cannot fulfill our thirst, the world outside cannot lead us to happiness. This is the main point of the first two verses.

In Tripura Rahasya, we have a very nice discussion where the student asks "the water in the mirror cannot satisfy our thirst while a glass of water in this world can satisfy our thirst, so this world is real isnt it ?" and this is a very interesting question because many people try to say that the world is real because it has utility value. this is the idea. The teacher's answer for this question is a real master stroke :
"if  the thirst was quenched , why does it come back again"
please see. its only a matter of time here. when i drink the water, the thirst is not really extinguished, it is only suspended for a brief moment of time. Even when i see a mirage water, a temporary sense of relief is seen , but that vanishes too soon, while the "so called real water" would apparently quench thirst for a little longer. the difference in time is the only difference here. the thirst returns, it is not "really" quenched. Even  the length of time difference we experience is only because we give it a sense of reality, because we believe this is real. As long as i believed that the mirage water was real, i was satisfied. when i go there to take a dip in it or to drink it, this belief in reality is destroyed and so my dissatisfaction returns to me. This length of time is also only because of my belief in its reality and nothing more.

Yoga Vasishta says :

Quote

Yoga Vasishta:
jaagratsvapnadashaabhedo na sthiraasthirate vinaa|
samaH sadaiva sarvatra samasto.anubhavo.anayoH || (303)
जाग्रत्स्वप्नदशाभेदो न स्थिरास्थिरते विना।
समः सदैव सर्वत्र समस्तोऽनुभवोऽनयोः॥
There is no difference between waking and dreaming states except for stability and instability. The combined (whole) experience of these two is the same always and everywhere.

svapne nimagnadhiirjantuH pashyati sthirataa.N yathaa |
sargasvapne magnabuddhiH pashyati sthirataa.N tathaa|| (285)
स्वप्ने निमग्नधीर्जन्तुः पश्यति स्थिरताँ यथा।
सर्गस्वप्ने मग्नबुद्धिः पश्यति स्थिरताँ तथा॥
As a person whose mind is merged in the dream sees the stability of the dream, so also the one whose mind is merged in the dream like universes sees it to be stable.

The stability we see of this world is only because of our mind constantly mediating and believing in it. This being so, what is the point in setting right this world and trying to arrive at some kind of supreme state through it ? [this is not to say that one should not correct a situation in life -- one just should not hope to discover fulfillment through it. the mirage is fine as long as we just enjoy the scenery but when we think we can quench thirst with it thats when problems start ].  Please see this. We need this wisdom. And for this, we have to work with our own minds. Renunciation does not take place by saying "we should leave everything". That remains information, without getting transformed into wisdom. We will shortly try to see how we can transform this information into wisdom but before that lets take a look at some beautiful verses of Yoga Vasishta:

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किमुपादेयमस्तीह यत्नात् सँसाधयामि किम्।
किँ मे क्रियापरतया किँ मे निष्क्रिययापि वा॥

---> Yoga Vasishta , Janaka's Reflection

What is there fit to be acquired here ? What shall I accomplish through efforts ?Of what use to me is devotion to [or occupation with] efforts ? Or else of what avail to me is withdrawal from action ?


This is the understanding we should come to. And how do we do this ? we delve deep within and ask ourselves. do we want certain objects, certain situations ? Do we try to avoid some other situations ? In our seat of mediation, we need to simply trigger a thought and see how the mind is behaving ... suppose we simply imagine "what if i get a lot of success" and see what all things the mind is saying. We need to make it a practice to recognize our vasanas and then trigger a thought so that the dormant vasanas pop up and when they pop up, we need to re-educate the mind to see things in the right perspective. witness those thoughts and use this wisdom to see how the mind is functioning in incorrect patterns. Note that the mind functions as it does because we have been all these years telling it wrong things... we have been telling it money gives happiness, relationships give happiness etc ... now mind being a simple instrument is simply repeating this. now this new knowledge or understanding we have gained is not strong enough as we have just said it and it is only at the peripheral level... so we need to use this understanding, and see the fallacy in the ways of our own mind and as we do this, the mind slowly reduces to a naught. This is meditation. This is renunciation, and this is sadhana...

In Buddhist meditation practices they intentionally meditate on this body as filthy or made of bones and other disagreeable material. Or perhaps as a skeleton. Even Shankara advices this in bhaja govindam. This is the way to practically take this knowledge and use it to eliminate the wrong ideas and notions we might have. simply changing train of thoughts will not help, it is too limited in its capacity. we need to sit down with our own mind and with this wisdom see things clearly as they are. 

In the next verse of upadesha saram Bhagavan brings in  God, but there is something interesting here ... if we see the above verse of janaka, he even says "what is the use of devotion for me"? the point is devotion has two types of meanings : para and apara, in apara or lower forms of devotion, people use devotion as a means to acquire some results or may be to concentrate mind. they are all good and have their place. we will see Bhagavan himself pointing us to it. but in para form of devotion, its only abidance. The above method of seeing the futility of this world is not different from clinging to Truth .. because giving that [what is unreal] up is really abiding as self. We cannot give up the unreal through great willpower. its given up through wisdom ... when we sit with our own minds and observe its functioning as fallacious from the perspective of this wisdom, the mind auto-corrects itself. if we do not apply this knowledge to remove ignorance ... wrong thinking in our own mind ... that wisdom remains information and does not really help us remain satisfied all the time.

Love!
Silence

86
Dear ksksat27,
         :) I do not belong to the Chinmaya School :) or Dayananda School of thought.
My affiliation is to the Truth, not to a particular person or school of thought. If you have read my other posts I study a lot of Buddhism as well - Thich Nhat Hanh, Ajanh Brahm, alan walace etc. [I am not affiliated to buddism even :) ].

Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi points to the Truth , so does Sri Ramakrishna or Buddha ... and also the upanishads ...
if we delve deeply into the teachings, we discover the same Truth expressed.

The best description for me, if you want to label me as such ... is "udai inquires into truth". anything else one adds to it, may not be accurate enough. :)

Love!
Silence


87
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 08, 2017, 11:52:25 AM »
Dear Ravi ji ,

         Agree totally with what is written here. 100% agreement with the way i look at it.

Love!
Silence

88
Dear Ravi ji,
        :)

Quote
The word is also used to refer to the process of sifting the essence from the non essence..
     
     :) Thank you.

Love!
Silence

89
Dear Anil ji,
          :)

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If you would have practiced Sri Bhagwan's Vichara even a little, such questions, I am sure, wouldn't have arisen.

:) _/\_

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Holding or clinging to the consciousness 'I' is attending or paying attention, with a keen mind, (Attention is reflection of the Power of the Self) to the awareness of Existence-Consciousness, 'I Am', which no one can deny, and thereby gaining greater and greater intensity of CONCENTRATION upon it.

is this self inquiry

or is it inquiry to see that there is no "I" and thus just be ?

please see Anil ji, i am not trying to criticize here. all i am trying to say is "CONCENTRATION" does not seem to be really Self Inquiry.
The "I" is never there, this discovery is not "KEEN CLINGING" ... its not "HOLDING" ... it is rather "Leaving" or "Dropping off"
I am trying to present a disagreement with some views. Thats all. And holding or clinging to any feeling or idea or place is not a means to drop off ... infact its recognition that the i has already dropped off.

BTW : this view is directly from upadesha saram : manasantu kim margane krite naiva manasam marga arjavat ... it does not say concentrate on what is mind ... concentration is perpetuation .. it says look whence is this sense of i arises ... which means to listen ... to observe like ... suppose a sound arises, where is it arising from ... and one sees none and so just remains ... without an i ... for this no waiting is required and its not any hardwork.

Now in saying this, or questioning towards this if i have hurt you , i am sorry for that.
Our aim in spiritual life is to remain calm does not mean we need to avoid debates to be calm... if i am troubled by simple online debates, that is really the place for me to be , since thats where the vasana is arising , otherwise it might remain dormant.

Love!
Silence

90
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 02, 2017, 11:26:27 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,

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path shown by Bhagavan of self enquiry is different than the traditional approach,etc,etc...these arise from the misconception that the traditional path is one of 'negation and affirmation' and that it involves only 'mental affirmations' (I am Brahman).

Very true. Cannot agree more.

This is how i look at it :
Suppose we are going on a car and we look out of the window at the scenery that is around. and if we simply walk along the same path and see the same scenery -  we perceive a very different scene. The reason is, when i am going in a car, i am moving very fast and the images captured on the retina cannot be processed at that speed ... so mind does not really see , but fills the gaps ... its like it sees the scene at a point A and then at another point B and fills the inbetween region ... this is how mind functions. but when we actually take a walk along the path ... we see it differently , because now, the mind has time to process the scene.. now its really seeing the scenery.
if we slow down further , we start to look at the world more deeply and clearly... as we start stilling down, we see both traditional path and the way of Bhagavan are more and more the same.
We need to totally settle down and calm down and we see the true import of what is said.

our affiliation at any point is not the a tradition or to a particular guru ... our affiliation is to truth and if we are sincere the inner guru starts to guide us to see things in the right perspective.

Love!
Silence

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