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Messages - srkudai

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76
Dear Anil ji,
          :)

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If you would have practiced Sri Bhagwan's Vichara even a little, such questions, I am sure, wouldn't have arisen.

:) _/\_

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Holding or clinging to the consciousness 'I' is attending or paying attention, with a keen mind, (Attention is reflection of the Power of the Self) to the awareness of Existence-Consciousness, 'I Am', which no one can deny, and thereby gaining greater and greater intensity of CONCENTRATION upon it.

is this self inquiry

or is it inquiry to see that there is no "I" and thus just be ?

please see Anil ji, i am not trying to criticize here. all i am trying to say is "CONCENTRATION" does not seem to be really Self Inquiry.
The "I" is never there, this discovery is not "KEEN CLINGING" ... its not "HOLDING" ... it is rather "Leaving" or "Dropping off"
I am trying to present a disagreement with some views. Thats all. And holding or clinging to any feeling or idea or place is not a means to drop off ... infact its recognition that the i has already dropped off.

BTW : this view is directly from upadesha saram : manasantu kim margane krite naiva manasam marga arjavat ... it does not say concentrate on what is mind ... concentration is perpetuation .. it says look whence is this sense of i arises ... which means to listen ... to observe like ... suppose a sound arises, where is it arising from ... and one sees none and so just remains ... without an i ... for this no waiting is required and its not any hardwork.

Now in saying this, or questioning towards this if i have hurt you , i am sorry for that.
Our aim in spiritual life is to remain calm does not mean we need to avoid debates to be calm... if i am troubled by simple online debates, that is really the place for me to be , since thats where the vasana is arising , otherwise it might remain dormant.

Love!
Silence

77
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 02, 2017, 11:26:27 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,

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path shown by Bhagavan of self enquiry is different than the traditional approach,etc,etc...these arise from the misconception that the traditional path is one of 'negation and affirmation' and that it involves only 'mental affirmations' (I am Brahman).

Very true. Cannot agree more.

This is how i look at it :
Suppose we are going on a car and we look out of the window at the scenery that is around. and if we simply walk along the same path and see the same scenery -  we perceive a very different scene. The reason is, when i am going in a car, i am moving very fast and the images captured on the retina cannot be processed at that speed ... so mind does not really see , but fills the gaps ... its like it sees the scene at a point A and then at another point B and fills the inbetween region ... this is how mind functions. but when we actually take a walk along the path ... we see it differently , because now, the mind has time to process the scene.. now its really seeing the scenery.
if we slow down further , we start to look at the world more deeply and clearly... as we start stilling down, we see both traditional path and the way of Bhagavan are more and more the same.
We need to totally settle down and calm down and we see the true import of what is said.

our affiliation at any point is not the a tradition or to a particular guru ... our affiliation is to truth and if we are sincere the inner guru starts to guide us to see things in the right perspective.

Love!
Silence

78
Dear Nishta,
       :)

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As you say it cannot be done. Isn?t that the point! Was not Maharshi saying, try and see if it can be done, and it will be found it cannot be done.

This is very different isnt it ?

what is placing attention on the I-thought ? What is placing attention on awareness or I AM Feeling ? what is this ?


Love!
Silence

79
Dear Anil ji,
          :)

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I thought you knew better. I thought you understood what holding onto the 'I'-thought, Attention and Self-attention, which are one and the same, really meant, in the context of Sri Bhagwan's Teaching of the Self-enquiry.


:) Thought hai na bhai, it wont stay. it has to pass away. Waise ... if your :) understanding now is that i do not know as well as you thought i knew ... :) you have come to the right knowledge. I am really not very knowledgeable.

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Holding or clinging to the consciousness 'I' is attending or paying attention, with a keen mind, (Attention is reflection of the Power of the Self) to the awareness of Existence-Consciousness, 'I Am', which no one can deny, and thereby gaining greater and greater intensity of CONCENTRATION upon it. This is what is meant by diving deep within as well. This is Dhyana on the Self Itself, contrary to second and third person thoughts and objects, that is, the Self-attention, from the very beginning, for there are not two selves. 

:) How can awareness pay attention to awareness ? Awareness is not an object. 
if you are saying its concentrating on the heart center ... people have known it for ages. one gains concentration from that, i do not deny.
but is that what ramana said ?


Please do not get angry with me, i am simply asking questions. if you are paying attention, ... it has to be an object , the subject cannot be payed attention to. so awareness cannot watch awareness. what is really meant ?

Love!
Silence

80
Dear Nishta,
        :)
please see... waht do we mean by soundness of that suggestion ?

have we understood what it means ? what is it saying ? how to hold onto a transitory thoguht ?

Love!
Silence

81
Dear Nishta,
         :)

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Maharshi used the phrase "hold on to the I thought" many times.
Was He wrong to say so?


:) is this about authority of Ramana ? He would be the last person to support authority based acceptance because he said something.
 what did he mean is what i am asking.
how will you hold onto an i thought or feeling that is like transient , does not have staying power ?
and who is it that will hold it ...

there is no harm in revisiting such basic questions , we are not going to loose anything here.
we are not debating, we are not showing off learning .. we are just inquiring into the meaning of a statement of bhagavan with a calm and single pointed mind. and i think this is important.

Love!
Silence

82
Dear Friends,
      :)

what does this line mean:

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"We generally follow holding on to the I thought as intense as possible."

?

A thought is transitory , how will one hold it ? and who is the one who is supposed to hold onto it ?

Love!
Silence

83
Thich Nhat Hahn ...

I REMEMBER A SHORT CONVERSATION between Buddha
and a philosopher of his time.

"I have heard tell of Buddhism as a doctrine of enlightenment.
What is its method? In other words, what do you do every day?''

"We walk, we eat, we wash ourselves, we sit down ... "

"What is there that is special in those actions? Everyone walks, eats, washes himself, sits down . . ."

"Sir, there is a difference. When we walk, we are aware of the fact that we walk; when we eat, we are aware of the fact that we eat, and so on. When others walk, eat, wash themselves, or sit down, they are not aware of what they do."

This conversation clearly expresses the Awareness of Being which in Buddhism is the secret by which man "sheds light" on his existence, produces the power of  concentration, and, finally, brings wisdom to fruition. Awareness of Being is the backbone of the Buddhist method.

84
General topics / Re: What is Self Inquiry ?
« on: November 20, 2017, 04:13:35 PM »
Dear Ravi ji,
      :) what you wrote is very true.

BTW :D as an aside and in a lighter vein ... i am not fond of teaching sir. atleast not anymore. used to be.
now do not have time to think of it !

Sri Ramakrishna used to say that when a person is spiritually minded god sends him ways to reduce activity or work.
i hope he does that for me some day soon so that i can spend a lot of time sitting in meditation

Love!
Silence

85
General topics / Re: What is Self Inquiry ?
« on: November 20, 2017, 11:11:40 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,
   :) True, i remember reading the corrections by sri ramakrishna in the gospel itself.

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It was not as simple as that...slowly the implication of 'the power of attorney' dawned on him and with gentle reminders and corrections on the part of the master and later on as life unrolled the way it did for Girish...Often he found the going tough...was plagued by bouts of doubt and despondency...what he was in for slowly dawned on him and he learnt to cope up with that and began living that....it was not at all easy and cosy...all this is covered in the fine biography by Swami Chetanananda.

But do we see something here ? When he gave the power of attorney he was free... when he took it upon himself he felt doubt etc. then again he would let go and experience freedom ... isnt it ?
whenever he took it upon himself , became a doer ... he suffered.
when he "dropped off" even temporarily, he experienced his own being and abided as Self.

The complexity is because of not dropping off. not because of difficulty in the suggestion itself. we somehow cling and do not want to leave our hold on this world and so we suffer. not because leaving is difficult but because we do not want to leave. we believe its unwise to leave our hold on worldliness ... while the truth is , even when we think we are controlling the world we have really no control. and in these matters its useless to tell agian and again that one should leave worldliness ... instead its wisdom that works ... so when we contemplate on the world and see that whether we agree or disagree ... everything is out of control ... wow! at once we notice that beyond the lack of control is a freedom not explainable in words !

the problem is we think this world is our savior ... its going to provide us with fulfillment ...
the solution is to see the reality of the world. see it again and again until we no more mistake ... this is called self inquiry by bhagavan !

Love!
Silence

86
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: November 19, 2017, 09:35:00 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,
       :)
There is a very interesting point to note here : Sraddha is not belief.
Srat dadati iti sradha , that which leads to truth, Srat is sat nama , the SAT is Sradha.

its an attitude of open-ness , in zen its called beginner's mind.

girish gosh was convinced that the worldly pleasures cannot give him the kind of intoxication that Sri Ramakrishna experienced day in and day out. He was totally disillusioned of the world ... though he probably could not give up his addictions since he did not find out the "TRUE Addiction" of Sri Ramakrishna, he was unhappy with the worldly pleasures. If we read his story this is obvious. That is wisdom ... it just means the wheel was cut off... it was only a matter of time before he drops off. thats why when Sri Ramakrishna said "give me the power of attorney" , he could do it ... because he knew that by being in control and trying to control he was not really achieving much ! When sri ramakrishna said "can you atleast chant God's name every day", he said no ... it was clear from it that he was already convinced that he had no control ... instead of feeling bad about it ... sri ramakrishna directed it towards surrender thats the beauty! We see again and again that Sri Ramakrishna had very keen insights into his disciple's lives ... and when i say this ... we are all included in his disciples list :P

Love!
Silence

 

87
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: November 19, 2017, 08:59:56 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,
       :) true

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.the relinquishing of the ego sense, the 'I' and 'Mine' by seeing its unreal nature and getting rid of it in toto ...Vichara and self surrender are one and the same.

very true. As i mentioned in another thread ...
Sri Ramakrishna told Girish chandra gosh to give him the power of attorney. And  that was really not different from self inquiry. for what does he do ? whenever his mind unconsciously took up ownership he would simply leave that ownership , surrendering it to Sri Ramakrishna and thus would "just be" :)

infact Sri Ramakrishna was also very clear on Self inquiry ... his onion example where he says finding out the "I" is like peeling an onion ... as one peels one finds that there is no "I" ... only He or God !

The style in which it is expressed is different ... but the same Truth has been expressed by everyone ... I mean all those saints who understood.

Love!
Silence

88
General topics / Re: What is Self Inquiry ?
« on: November 19, 2017, 08:39:30 AM »
Bhagavan Ramana's ultimate teaching is : Just Be.
It is not Self Inquiry.
Just Be can also be due to complete Self Surrender to God.

But often what happens is , we tend to go into "doing" rather than simply being. The mind has a tendency to move out.
When we observe this, we immediately tend to say "mind should not go out, let me arrest it" ! This is the "doing approach" and this leads to further doing. We are caught in this world of "doing" ... we do not experience respite until we drop off from it and abide in being. This is the main point.


when i was a kid my father once playfully said that he was pushing the train. in my innocence i thought he really did it and that i could do it too and so would push the train very hard ... every now and then the train moved fast and i thought i was the cause for it, i was thrilled. and when it did not, i thought i needed to work harder at it. When the wisdom that i was not the one moving the Train arose in me ... that wisdom lead me to stop "doing". We often tend to stop doing by further doing because we approach it with will power rather than wisdom power. what we need is wisdom power.

We do not stop the mental tendency to move out  ["doing" ] by arresting it , focusing it etc. These are all still doings - and they are based on will power. The best way to resolve the mind is to make use of wisdom power rather than will power. it is wisdom power that enables one to just be. When bhagavan said inquire "who am i", its actually employing wisdom power ... he did not definitely mean that we should focus on something or somewhere and something shall happen. if we read upadesha saram carefully, we shall observe something fantastic about the way bhagavan presents it. the first two verses are all about "doings" ...
The third verse says "hence leave it all to God". Sri Ramakrishna said the same thing to Girish Chandra Gosh - he said give me the power of attorney and when he truely did it, he stood free not because sri ramakrishna gave him anything new but because he resolved into being rather than doing. In my opinion the third verse of upadesha saram is not merely karma yoga - leave it all to god means let things happen as they happen. for me to be able to say this i need to appreciate the first two verses of upadesha saram where bhagavan clearly explains that this world is a "kriti maha udau" [an ocean of doing that has no end, we will be caught in cycles ending no where]. this is wisdom. we need to understand this. This should not remain information. we need to take what bhagavan said and look into our own lives and situations in life... and clearly see that we have been moving in circles in the hope of finding some fulfillment. We need to contemplate life.

Bhagavan Ramana's teachings are to be used to contemplate on life. And when we contemplate life and see how things are really out of our control, how we are not really the drivers of this car :) ... we tend to disengage with the worldly life. disengagement with the worldly life born out of deep contemplation on the ways of the world is "wisdom" and self inquiry is really applying this wisdom again and again to move from doing to being. This is what self inquiry is. Self inquiry is really to see how there is no doer and thus leaving oneself as the Being.

When we observe that the world is totally out of control, and say "this is not my business" [as Annamalai Swami ji said], we automatically resolve. The world is totally out of control and it is therefore not our business. Having this attitude "its none of our business" is another name for self inquiry.

Self inquiry is not whether i ask "who am i" or "whence am i" or some other question . It is Self inquiry only when i move from doing to being again and again until the mind no more desires to go out ... and it is self inquiry only when this is done with wisdom power and not with will power as explained above. It , therefore, has to be accompanied by deep contemplation on the ways of the world and in its essence it is not different from self surrender.

Love!
Silence

89
General topics / Re: What is truth? Who can know?
« on: November 19, 2017, 08:03:33 AM »
Thanks Ravi, I feel, if i can sustain enough faith so as to last till my life, that much would be enough!

But again, this faith in me happens to be "the spirit of living" and lesser, as a faith in God! At the same time this does not mean that I am standing here to prove the non existence of God or the unreality of Enlightenment of Self. I just happen to see in my life that there has been nothing more meaningful than living your life wisely and intelligently while it lasts, given with the acceptance that this life is mixed with some good and some bad elements, which we have to accept, face it and move on! I am just exploring to see, if there is something else really, to which we can strive for!

Dear Shivam ji,
        What is living life "wisely and intelligently" ? How do we "Accept that life is mixed with some good and some bad elements" ? and how do we face these ? More importantly how is "good" and "bad" decided ?

Love!
Silence

90
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: November 19, 2017, 07:57:42 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,
         :)

You are very correct in saying that mostly the differences are in vocabulary and the usage of the words rather than in content.

A small correction from my side [i should have articulated more clearly] , when i said "i perform my own inquiry" it was in response to ksksat ji's statement that "udai is a traditionalist" ... i was just trying to mention that i do not really fit into that. :) it was not in relation to Self Inquiry.

Self Inquiry : its 100% as explained by Bhagavan. :) There is no difference. 

Love!
Silence

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