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Messages - srkudai

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Dear Anil ji,

Our differences were three fold:
1. Self Inquiry is not concentration or intense effort. you urself agreed to this .
2. "I AM the Self" can also be Self Inquiry. We disagree on this as of now.
3. Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi has not said something new. For this I gave some examples from Vijnana Bhairava Tantra, you might have read. There are many more.

I think if we agree on the previous post on Self Inquiry that its only a means to be without I ... so when i do self inquiry instantaneously i resolve into I-less being ... though i have to may be do it again and again, i am sure we can easily see that (2) and (3) are also true.


Dear Friends [Anil ji, and every one else],

There is only one description of Self Inquiry.

Bhagavan puts it crystal clear in Upadesha Saram :
manasantu kim margane krite naiva manasam marga arjavat

the direct path ... which is the way he referred to self inquiry ... is to see there is no mind... naiva manasam  ... no mind , no i ... how ?
margane krite ... seeing , directly ... whence is the mind arising.

one cannot find a mind, one cannot find an I .

there is no "going deeper", no "diving in" etc here ...
[Anil ji, i have no objecting to using of that word if it does not mean concentration. after all any word one uses is incorrect to an extent]

one clearly and openly sees there is no me! This is an empty boat.
and once this is seen one eventually remains established as Awareness, what is there to be done ? what is to be reached ?
who is there to reach in the first place ?

Here and now.

There is nothing like ill do more, i have to do more ... more effort is needed etc. These are all perpetuating ego.
no one to do anything now ! this is the effect of self inquiry. if perchance one were to feel unhappy , inquire again and dissolve. do this until the ego stops popping.

This is as simple as it is.

this dissolution can happen through rama nama or question who am i , i do not have any reservations on that.


BTW ... i thought you had a problem with Annamalai Swami's statement ? did you remove your objection because of authority of Annamalai Swami ji ?

you said earlier:

it is well-known that Sri Bhagwan didn't enjoin, in general, the 'I am Brahman' meditation or the 'neti-neti', saying that they are mental

and annamalai swami said:

I advise doing japa to the Self, either by repeatedly thinking about it or by repeating affirmations such as ?I am the Self?.
This affirmation is the greatest mantra of all. If you can do it continuously, without interruption, you will get results very
quickly. There is no greater japa, no greater sadhana than this.

Are you saying Annamalai Swami ji has a different teaching than Ramana ? :)

Dear Anil ji,

By I AM if you are talking of Awareness .. you cannot concentrate on it.
it is not an object.

Simple and straight.

since it is not an object, if someone has taken some object to be "I AM" , the individuality will remain :)

If it is not to be concentrated upon ... then yes , i would have said the ego has no alternative but to dissolve in the Awareness / I AM. But then concentrating upon it is not possible.


Dear Anil ji,

  I always used to submit that all practices finally culminated into Vichara. However all practices are not Vichara to start with

:) is concentration  asking "who am i"  vichara to start with ?

Even the sequence, ?To whom has this thought come? To me,? is based on ignorance of the truth. Why? Because it is verbalising a state of ignorance; it is perpetuating an erroneous assumption that there is a person who is having troublesome thoughts. You are the Self, not some make-believe person who is having thoughts.

:) Annamalai Swami ji.

The point is : when one starts with "i am unhappy" and inquires "who I is"
that which leads to dissolution of the I is Self Inquiry.
anything that leads to its perpetuation is not.


Dear Anil ji,

Dear devotees, 'Just Be' is to remain as Pure Consciousness 'I Am'.  The experience of 'I Am' is to be still. Therefore, what other stillness or just state of being is being talked and discussed about here in this forum so enthusiastically?

:) You should tell me. Pure Consciousness cannot be "Concentrated upon "! thats why it says remain as I AM, infact there is no effort there. cessation of effort is the way ! you told me earlier that:

? you have yourself said elsewhere

Holding or clinging to the consciousness 'I' is attending or paying attention, with a keen mind, (Attention is reflection of the Power of the Self) to the awareness of Existence-Consciousness, 'I Am', which no one can deny, and thereby gaining greater and greater intensity of CONCENTRATION upon it


Dear Anil ji,

I advise doing japa to the Self, either by repeatedly thinking about it or by repeating affirmations such as ?I am the Self?.
This affirmation is the greatest mantra of all. If you can do it continuously, without interruption, you will get results very
quickly. There is no greater japa, no greater sadhana than this.

Do you find this atrocious ? :) Annamalai Swami ji says that this is the highest sadhana, if it is the highest should it be equivalent to self inquiry or not ?  if it is not self inquiry, how can it be highest sadhana ?

Please let me know


Dear Anil ji,
Ego can make any activity into protecting itself from destruction.
It is not the particular method that gives protection against this .

and why do you address Ravi ji and talk about me as "him". Please address me as udai, and talk to me if you have something to say. why speak to Ravi ji or other Devotees about some "him" ? :)

There is no contradiction... you are missing it.


Dear Anil ji,
        :) you have given me a nice task :) ... 13 questions. ok, let me answer as I understand.

1. Aham Vritti
[short answer: "A sense or notion of I" , fictitious entity.]

long answer:
imagine seeing a dark cloud. What is the actual experience ... only is-ness. or presence.
some background notions are used to carve out a "cloud" even.
and then i think cloud is good or bad for me etc. these are all thoughts.
the background of all these thoughts is a fictitious sense of "me" !
in reality there is this body which as no sense of me
awareness has no sense of me.
rest are thoughts which are transient and momentary.
where is the "me" ?
2. I-thought : [see above.]
3. irreducible datum of all our experiences : [You/Me/Self]
4. The Heart : into which everything dissolves. Self.
5. Diving in:
Seeing where from this sense of I is arising. Like a dog sniffing for a smell. see
do the trees or mountains or any of the external world says so ?
if the body says "I" ?
if awareness says so ?
thus recognize there is none.
thus none to move inside or outside. what more is to be done ?

6. In-gathering of the mind and senses.
Withdrawing importance given to them. We think we will enjoy through senses or mental states and hence give them a lot of importance. when the wisdom dawns that they are irrelevant, one withdraws attention from them and stops giving them importance. one does nothing to gather them ... they simply lose themselves because they rely on the value or importance we give them]

7. Source: Self.

A negation of what I am not.
Self , cannot be described. And one need not say I am that Self. Self does not say that , right ?
and infact Self need not be described. It is ever self evident and every description needs it as the background.
so every scriptural statement (like this) is a negation of all notions that we hold about ourselves.
it just means "I am Udai", remove that notion "udai".
"I am a devotee" ... drop that "devotee"
dropping here is simply stop giving it importance... stop believing in its reality. it depends on our constant meditation to gain reality.
then what remains, ... wordless , nameless Self] .

9. Chit-Jada Granthi
imagine a red hot ball of fire rolling.
fire has no shape ... its not a ball and cannot roll.
ball is not hot !
the properties of one are superimposed on the other.

body is jada, awareness is cit ... ignorance is to superimpose the properties of one on the other.
is-ness or beingness of cit is superimposed on body
the jada-nature, mortality of body is superimposed on awareness when we say i am tall, short, dying etc.

this ignorance is chit-jada granthi.]

10. Pure I = Self.
[Actually a negation again. Negation of all notions associated with I ]

11.  Reflected Consciousness
Consciousness talked about with reference to a specific intellect.
like pot space .
space seen with reference to a pot.
space itself is not bound by pot.
there is nothing else for consciousness to reflect in.

this allegory is only provided to suggest (Adhyatma Ramayana , hanuman is taught by sri rama : sri rama hrdhayam) first withdraw attention away from objects to see oneself as the awareness in our mind and then "my mind" notion needs to be negated, hence this)

12. One pointed-ness of mind:
[When there is no where to go, nothing to do, mind remains here, with the present, what is. that is also called one pointedness.
usually minds are scattered because of a "doer" or "enjoyer" who is seeking something or the else... if nothing else, moksha. so when this seeker is dissolved or seen as unreal... one remains where one is, just as one is. this is single pointedness. no where to go , nothing to do.]

13. Attention itself, what is it?


General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 14, 2017, 10:45:50 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,

Thank you very much for the wonderful post on Gayatri.
I do not really remember if I read this conversation of Bhagavan, but somehow intuitively it clicked really well when i read this from you today.

I have been sitting with Gayathri Mantra Dhyana every day and I do see how powerful it is. Infact i was intuitively feeling that it is drawing me inside ... deeper by each chant ... and almost as if "am i chanting ?" or "is it that some power is making me do it and drawing me in" !

What can it be if not Self Inquiry ?

I completely agree with this:

Meditation is to merge the mind in this reality by dwelling on this essence of pure consciousness...and this is something that can be done only by invoking the grace and it is this 'anu-graha' that can bring about this (graha refers to this pulling power) is the power of the Self that has to effect this.

I think all practices culminate into Self Inquiry. Suppose someone were to imagine a God in heart and meditate on the God , eventually as he gets absorbed , he is left in Just Be State. And if he holds onto the wrong idea that god is a specific form, that gets cleared eventually through the grace.

Grace is very powerful. I was listening to Nochur Venkataraman ji and he speaks Atma Darshanam, Ishvara Darshanam and Krpa Darshanam or the darshanam of Grace - and  Krpa is the highest actually .

The point is I may dissolve in Self / Awareness [or God] by chanting Rama nama
or I may keep concentrating on the "I AM" and retain my "individuality"
It is not what method i choose , but whether i dissolve or not that matters.
if i am using the method to dissolve the individuality in the Presence/God ... that is Self Inquiry. Since the individuality is dissolved there is nothing more to do and that is Just Be.

if i use the same method and retain the individuality in a subtle way ... the best sign that this is the case is that i am not relaxing enough , or i am not mindful enough... when this is the case, it is not self inquiry.


Dear Anil ji,

Some verses from Vijnana Bhairava Tantra:

verse 98:

इच्छायामथवा ज्ञाने जाते चित्तँ निवेशयेत् ।

One should fix one's attention on the point where iccha [desire] or knowledge [knowingness] has arisen with undivided attention on that one gains insight into the essence of the reality.

verse 97:

yadaa mamecChaa notpannaa GYaana.N va kastadaasmi vai |
tattvato~ha.N tathaabhuutastalliinastanmanaa bhavet ||

यदा ममेच्छा नोत्पन्ना ज्ञानँ व कस्तदास्मि वै ।
तत्त्वतोऽहँ तथाभूतस्तल्लीनस्तन्मना भवेत् ॥

When neither the will nor knowledge (or thought) has arisen, what is my primordial state, by being one with that, remaining there, one should merge one's mind there.


Dear Anil ji,

I requested you to wait for my responses, but you are so assailed by thought-wave, having no patience at all, that you promptly came with a barrage of useless and meaningless questions in a hurry, without even reading my post

Do you see , Anil ji, that you are unnecessarily saying this ? Whether i did it intentionally or "assailed by a thought wave" :) you have no way to know. Why this personal attack Anil ji ? Lets talk the topic. not people .

:) and Anil ji, suppose  i am indeed being assailed by thought waves ... then as a person with calmness what should you do ? ensure that i do not get caught in thought waves ... not say "you are assailed by thought waves and have no patience" ... LOL that amounts to looking down upon someone ... if i am indeed a lowly being, you should have calmly and with lot of compassion said ... "please do not get carried away, lets calmly inquire etc" ...

I have written that as soon as one becomes aware that the Self-attention has been broken on account of rising of a thought, one should not complete the sequence, but instead, by the contrivance pointed out, one should regain the Self-attention.

:) so is it completing the sequence of thoughts or completing a single thought ? :)
the original question was about a single thought , so i considered it not an answer.
but if u say that its the stream that is blocked ... i consider it an answer, i have some more questions , but for now we can park it.


This is very nice explanation and let us together see what this has to say :)

Who am I? The sthūla dēha [the gross physical body], which is [composed] of sapta dhātus [the seven constituents, namely chyle, blood, flesh, fat, marrow, bone and semen], is not 'I'.

Lets do an interesting experiment. we need two people for this. We may invite our friend to participate with us.
so i close my eyes, and my friend touches me on my hand with a pen.  :) The experiment is done.
lets now ask : "what was my experience ?"

lets just stick to what we experienced.
what is the description ? Please see...
"my friend touched my hand with a pen" is this an accurate description or is the description:
"experience of touch"
its just an experience of touch, rest of the story is added up by my mind. Please see this as this is very important.

Our Sthula Deha ... what is it ? Carefully , it is only a collection of sensations. Do i experience this sthula body or is it only a set of sensations ? This is an interesting inquiry. i see , i feel, i hear etc. these all that are there. This is what we call a body. Its only a set of sensations.

And what happens if we zoom into a particular sensation ... observe it and zoom into it, closely seeing what is there ... and we see what ? There is no "I" out there. My hair is graying, it does not protest this. I may protest it. Please see this. In the lap of God, this body is eternally fulfilled.
The body does not alienate itself from the whole body of God. This is the beauty. It has not individuality of its own. it just functions as per a certain set of laws.

This cannot be a me , because there is no one out there. this is the starting point of our investigation.


Dear Anil ji,
you have not answered any of the questions Anil ji. You have not answered the first question here. Please take your time and answer to the point raised. what is the use in posting a paragraph that does not answer the point raised ? 

Firstly :
when i said am i criticizing or looking down upon ramana/ sadhu om ... its saying "no" ... not that i am asking you.
suppose i say "can one quench thirst using mirage water" ... it just means "no.

anyways :

a) you have to recognize that thought has arisen , which you cannot do without observing. Am I right or do you think there is a way to discover that thought has arisen without observing.

you have not answered this.

b) What is meant by without completing ? when you observed it has already gone ! its something of the past.

you have not answered this either.

you have combined them and said "this is not correct" --- please take your time and answer the questions directly point by point Anil ji.


Dear Anil ji,

If you understand what self inquiry is : every method taught in the scriptures is self inquiry in content.
But if you have exotic ideas about it, it is missed even when presented. It is not that i do not understand self abidance.
i disagree with your idea of self abidance. this is the point.

what is the problem in answering my questions ? they are simple and straight ... instead you have raised another set of questions ...
my questions are direct and simple , single pointed questions.
you have raised so many generic questions "what is aham vritti" and we can go on discussing about it !

we need to have a systematic discussion -- the questions i raised , if you feel they are meaningless ... point it out. but answer them ... no hurry . you have written 3 posts in-between ... talking about everything other than the points raised. obviously you have no way to know what i read or what is my state of mind as i present this. so please do not waste time by discussing about these points which are out of your reach and lets discuss the topic. take your time and answer those questions . i think they are meaningful.


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