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Messages - srkudai

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46
Dear Anil ji,
     :)
you have not answered any of the questions Anil ji. You have not answered the first question here. Please take your time and answer to the point raised. what is the use in posting a paragraph that does not answer the point raised ? 

Firstly :
when i said am i criticizing or looking down upon ramana/ sadhu om ... its saying "no" ... not that i am asking you.
suppose i say "can one quench thirst using mirage water" ... it just means "no.

anyways :

a) you have to recognize that thought has arisen , which you cannot do without observing. Am I right or do you think there is a way to discover that thought has arisen without observing.

you have not answered this.


b) What is meant by without completing ? when you observed it has already gone ! its something of the past.

you have not answered this either.


you have combined them and said "this is not correct" --- please take your time and answer the questions directly point by point Anil ji.

Love!
Silence


47
Dear Anil ji,
         :)

If you understand what self inquiry is : every method taught in the scriptures is self inquiry in content.
But if you have exotic ideas about it, it is missed even when presented. It is not that i do not understand self abidance.
i disagree with your idea of self abidance. this is the point.

what is the problem in answering my questions ? they are simple and straight ... instead you have raised another set of questions ...
my questions are direct and simple , single pointed questions.
you have raised so many generic questions "what is aham vritti" and we can go on discussing about it !

we need to have a systematic discussion -- the questions i raised , if you feel they are meaningless ... point it out. but answer them ... no hurry . you have written 3 posts in-between ... talking about everything other than the points raised. obviously you have no way to know what i read or what is my state of mind as i present this. so please do not waste time by discussing about these points which are out of your reach and lets discuss the topic. take your time and answer those questions . i think they are meaningful.

Love!
Silence

48
Dear Anil ji,
          :)

Quote
We are friends. Are we not? Well, what follows is emanating from my deep feeling of friendship and solicitude, and therefore, I hope that you will not mind at all.

No doubt on that Anil ji. We are friends who disagree on some ideas. That is perfectly fine.

Quote
I have reached conclusion that you have not read/studied Sri Bhagwan's Vichara in particular and His Teaching in general except Sri David Godman's 'Final Talks' and perhaps  the booklet 'Who Am I?'.  I feel that you might have read perfunctorily a few other books on Sri Bhagwan as well. Yes, of course, you have read some Vedanta, Sri Shankara's Works, Ashtavakra Gita , etc.
:) LOL how did you come to derive a list of books i read ? :D

Quote
From the study of these, you concluded that even Sri Bhagwan's Vichara could not go outside the scope of these sacred Works, and must be the same as presented in the Vedanta and taught by Sri Shankara.  But that is certainly not true as Sri Sadhu Om who moved closely intimately with Sri Bhagwan and associated closely with Sri Muruganar, has made clear in the above quote.

Ramana Paravidyopanishad , Sri Lakshmana Sarma:
verse 345:
The guru sugata [buddha] taught this truth, also the great teacher shankara taught the same; our own guru also tells us the same and this is also the essence of the vedanta.

Anil ji, In Vedanta being unique or different from tradition is not a virtue. A sage's greatness lies in the effortlessness with which he lives the teaching and not in giving a "different" teaching ... this is vedantic standpoint , some abrahmic faiths think that their prophet has to teach something different and new ... not so with vedanta.

Coming to your questions Anil ji, ill wait for you to answer my questions first and then ill respond to each and every one of these. There is no hurry , please take your time [not just hear , everywhere in life. be relaxed and calm is the fundamental aspect of vedanta , as you definitely know. we both are in agreement on this ]

Love!
Silence

49
I would like to repost : Atmavichar's post in Rough notebook forum here ...
This made my day and so i cannot help reposting it...

-----------------------------------------------------------

Quote
CHADWICK'S ENLIGHTENMENT
Once, I asked Chadwick, ?Are you realized?? I have put this question to all of the old devotees like Muruganar, Cohen, Osborne, Sadhu Natanananda, Devaraja Mudaliar and others. None of them either said yes or no - all smiled.
When I asked him whether he was realized, he did not say yes or no. Instead, he told me, ?I will tell you what happened. After many years of my stay with Bhagavan - four or five years, I committed the mistake of trying to evaluate how much I had progressed spiritually. This is a thing any seeker should not do. I felt that I had not progressed.
Many who saw me in Ramanasramam, looked at me like I was a sage or a saint saying, ?Oh! He is so fortunate. He is so close to Bhagavan. He meditates so much. He is already in that state.‟
This created a contradiction in me as I personally felt that I was not progressing spiritually. However, having left the material life I could not go back to a worldly life either. I felt caught between the devil and the deep sea.
I was sorrow-stricken. I ran to Bhagavan's hall. He was alone. I told him, ?Bhagavan, this is my plight. I am neither here nor there and this causes much sorrow in me.‟
Bhagavan looked at me compassionately and said, "Chadwick, who says all this?‟
Immediately, there was a current like shock in my body and I literally ran to my room, shut the doors and went into a neutral state. I was not bothered whether I was spiritually maturing or whether I would be able to stay in the world. I was in a neutral state of silence. A few days passed like that wherein I was neither happy nor worried.?
The only luxury that Chadwick allowed himself was taking his bath in a bathtub which he had in the verandah of his cottage. One day, shortly after the above incident, something happened unexpectedly.
As Chadwick told me later, ?I was taking my bath and very honestly Ganesan, I was not in a spiritual state or in a prayerful mood when it suddenly dawned - the ?I AM‟!?
He experienced it - not just as words. He was so ecstatic that he did not even dry himself. He just wrapped a towel around his waist and ran to the Old Hall from where a few days back he had run away. Fortunately, this time too, Bhagavan was alone. In this spiritual ecstasy of experiencing the ?I AM‟, where there was no Chadwick, just the ?I AM‟, he asked Bhagavan, ?Bhagavan, is
THIS it??
Chadwick recounted, ?Bhagavan gave me the most glorious smile, and then confirmed, ?Yes, Chadwick, THIS is THAT!‟ I then asked him, ?Bhagavan, is it so simple?‟
Bhagavan replied, ?Yes it is that simple.‟ Since then, I've never had any doubt.?
Ramana Periya Puranam

50
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: December 12, 2017, 03:18:23 PM »
Dear Atmavichar,
             :) This post brought tears to my eyes.

This is one of the rare gems really.

Love!
Silence

51
Dear Anil ji,
         :)
Quote
Yet, if you insist, I shall come up with my  own responses to all your questions some time tomorrow or the day after.

Please do so.

Love!
Silence

52
Dear Anil ji,
       :)

I hope if i question some of these things:
1. you would not take it to mean i am trying to teach you
or
2. i am criticizing or looking down upon Ramana / Sadhu OM

An inquiry can be conducted with an open mind without falling into any of these traps.

now ... you have written an entire post please comment on the following questions:

1.
Quote
"If other thoughts rise, one should, without attempting to complete them, enquire 'To whom did they rise?'
For this:
a) you have to recognize that thought has arisen , which you cannot do without observing. Am I right or do you think there is a way to discover that thought has arisen without observing.
b) What is meant by without completing ? when you observed it has already gone ! its something of the past.
or do you think a thought has staying power... it remains static ?

2.
Quote
'Watch all thoughts and events with detachment'
your emphasis on this quote:
Are you saying this is not vichara or are you questioning this method itself ?
if you are saying this is not vichara, who said it is vichara ? I certainly did not say so.
If you are questioning the method itself, then this is from the Buddha ... not from me.

3.
Quote
Self-attention,
what is this ? Self is not an object to be attended to.
how will you attend, please elaborate.
BTW : are you speaking of this awareness-watching-awareness school of thought ?



Love!
Silence
             

53
Dear Ravi ji,
     :) Yes its possible that thoughts do not arise.

If we do not talk [observe physical mauna] for a long time it would be a little difficult to start talking.
The same thing holds for mind too. when the mind does not talk for a long time, it takes some time to get it back to the thinking habit. Just as we might need a little effort to stop mind, it might require effort to make mind active again.

The crux of the understanding however is : whether mind is active or inactive, i remain ever untouched by the mind itself.

This is a very deep understanding. Movements in mind are seen as "That" ... like a mirage.  Not theoretically but really during the day to day activities.

In order to get to this simple understanding, however its important to revert to just be again and again.

Love!
Silence

54
Dear Anil ji,
      :) You are a wise person, i do not arrogate myself to be someone who can teach you ... that too via an online forum.
These are only a few thoughts that I shared, nothing personal ... i cannot know about you through your online posts and even if i can, it has no value for me.
my sharing in this and other forums are only my sadhana and nothing to teach people about.


Love!
Silence 

55
Dear Ravi ji,
         :)

The purpose of sharing that video on Vipassana is not to explain about Sri SNGoenka's Vipassana :) ... i have heard lot of good things about it but i myself did not do it... the purpose of sharing that video was only to point out the level of conditioned responses we carry ... its very very deep... the idea is to elaborate upon the general method of taking the Guru Vakyas and internalizing them.

In Buddhism there are two methods : shamata and vipassana.
Shamata is to get extremely calm , relaxed and mindful.
vipassana is about observing to gain insight.
one has to become mindful and calm in order to gain insights and in order to sink in the teachings to a deeper level of consciousness. until we employ these teachings to remove the vasanas and wrong notions, we will remain conditioned. This is what i feel. ofcourse mind is bound to be ever conditioned and i as Self am never conditioned, yet , for me to not identify with the stream of thoughts that pass in the mind, a certain level of mindfulness is a prerequisite. once this is there , the teaching automatically starts to flower and work by itself.

Only when i convert the guru vakyas into insights would i be able to live the truth completely. i am of the opinion that most people [which should include me] have not fully internalized the guru vakyas and the only way to do it is to start looking at the world through this teaching and remaining calm [shamata]. together ... they would pave way for a deep understanding which transforms our lives.

:) I am not trying to teach anything ... just sharing a few thoughts. This sharing is my own sadhana as well.

Love!
Silence

56
Quote
From Nan Yar

Since all living beings desire to be always happy without what is called misery, since for everyone the greatest love is only for oneself, and since happiness alone is the cause of love, [in order] to attain that happiness, which is one's own [true] nature that is experienced daily in [dreamless] sleep, which is devoid of the mind, oneself knowing oneself is necessary. For that, jnāna-vicāra [knowledge-investigation] 'who am I' alone is the principal means
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Friends,

Let us meditate on this teaching. But before we do that I would like to encourage you to take a look at the following video:


Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixu4Kd5R1DI&t=213s

we are very conditioned in most of our responses. The fact is we have been feeding our mind with wrong ideas for a very long time. since childhood i have believed that i am this body, and happiness is in certain sensations and some success etc... i have been telling this and reinforcing this again and again to my mind. Now when i suddenly tell it the opposite it does not really "get" it. Most of these conditioned responses and beliefs have become automatic and very fast. The new information may sound reasonable and logical and yet it does not have the capacity to undo the conditioned feelings/ responses.

So the first thing we need to do if we have to reeducate this mind is :

Quote
1. Slow Down and Observe. Relax and become mindful.

slowing down and observing is really different from observing at our normal pace. when our mind is at its normal pace, it is not really observing, it misses a lot of stuff. that is why one needs to slow down a little and then see what is happening ... what is happening at the level of the body and the mind. when i observe the sensations of the body, am i observing the body or the mind ? sensation is really at the mental level. Its really observation. Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi said "Trace the source of mind". That means, see whence is the thought/feeling/reaction arising from. As we slow down and observe carefully, we can see from where is this voice arising.

Quote
2. trace the voice/feeling . observe. It is like paying attention to see where is a sound arising from or like a dog sniffing to find the source of a smell.

We have a certain feeling and we have now slowed down completely and are very mindfully observing [very relaxed and mindful] ...but instead of just observing the thought, we are trying to trace the root ... who is this person who has this kind of thought/feeling ? We see two things: the wrong notions are seen as wrong notions and also ... we see that there is really no person out there ... infact these thoughts / feelings have no person in the background ... they are just idea floating in space if i may say so.

When we are relaxed and mindful we shall be able to see more clearly ... and the secret is, there is no one ... but this is not something to be held onto with force... this is a direct seeing , here and now. and in that observation / presence is pure joy or happiness of Self -- there is really no where to go , nothing to do. life itself is a pure joy. Living is indeed simply being.

I might have jumped the guns :)

Love!
Silence

57
Dear Ravi ji,
     :) Thanks for starting this thread.

Happiness is not in the outside world, but within : this is a very significant understanding.
If only we are done with seeking it outside , what is inside shines by itself.

Love!
Silence

58
Dear Anil ji,
       :)
Please take your time. There is no hurry.

Love!
Silence

59
fidelity to ramana is not equal to claiming ramana is of a different sect
by saying that ramana is saying the same truth as sankara ... nothing new is added... his greatness is not diminished
if u see greatness diminished this way, its purely an outlook based on ego isnt it ?

In fact, if self inquiry is understood as different from other methods taught in scriptures --- i am confident it is not understood.
:)
and please do not give me that "if only you practiced" refrain ... i do practice it and saying i only have "theoretical knowledge" ... could be a play of ego .


60
Dear Anil ji,
          :)

Quote
but all the same, they pointed different methods or ways

why do we speak in past tense, are they dead and Gone ? if not, and if they are still revealing ... be assured they are revealing what is best for you right now ... it could be self inquiry and being ever alive , they do not definitely lack the knowledge of self inquiry. A Buddhist following Buddha may land up with Self inquiry ... everyone , in any system who realized had to land up on that. no alternative.

Quote
The ADVENT of Bhagwan Sri Ramana happened, in my view, because the time for the Vichara, to be followed by one and all, everywhere, at all times, and not only in Hermitage by advanced devotees, had come. 

But that time did not come earlier ? :) before Ramana there was never a need for Vichara ?

Quote
I am of the firm opinion that fidelity to one's Guru and His Teaching is absolutely essential to progress in the realm of spirituality.

What would Ramana have said if someone were to say "Bhagwan Sri Ramana is unique to say the least" ?
if he would disagree , where is fidelity in saying this when he himself did not claim so ?
and would Ramana have said "X is of a different guru, Y is my own ?"
Please ponder. just think what would Ramana have commented if he were listening to this discussion of ours.

Love!
Silence



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