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General topics / The story of Mind, From Yoga Vasishta
« on: October 30, 2017, 04:53:07 PM »
The story of Mind, From Yoga Vasishta:

There is a formidable and desolate forest in which there was a man. He was with a thousand hands and eyes. Apparently very confused, he would strike himself violently with iron bars and run about crying. Running about like that he fell in a dark well with a hidden way out.

It took him some time to find his way out and then he slowly got out of the well into a thorny forest. Then again, departing and beating himself often, running and laughing he managed to enter a cool forest of plantain trees.

but he did not remain there for long. There also he started beating himself and running, he fell into the same well again ! He was as though drunk or semi conscious!!

Vasishta ji says: Having seen this for a long time , i held him by force ... and jolted him to consciousness. I then asked him " What is this ? Who are you? Why do you run in vain ?", thus asked, he said:
"I am no body, i do nothing. You are my enemy. Having seen by you, i am lost! Then , laughing, he gave up his limbs all around"
Thus in that forest, many men like him dwell, wandering about. That forest is there even today.

Sri Rama: Sage! What is that great forest ? What is it that they are intent on doing ?

Vasishta replies:

In this great forest of worldly existence, minds indeed wander about. They are lead by me , by discrimination, to supreme tranquility. Some, by disregarding me, fall down into hells. The forest of plantains is heaven. the affliction by sorrow is the thorn. "I am lost", when he said this, it was the cry of ego ... the feeling of me and mine ! The beatings are the blows of fancies or imaginations. They are indeed caused by oneself. The mind is reduced to a state of bondage only by its own imaginations and impressions. Like a silk worm in the cocoon one binds oneself by one's own imaginations and super-impositions.
This story of mind has been narrated to you. Contemplate on it with the mind , using this discrimination observe the mind and reject the fancies or imaginations of mind.

prahaaraaH kalpanaaghaataaH kriyante svayameva hi |
sa.NkalpavaasanaajaalaiH svairevaayaati bandhanam|
mano liilaamayaiH bandhaiH koshakaarakR^imiryathaa ||

प्रहाराः कल्पनाघाताः क्रियन्ते स्वयमेव हि।
सँकल्पवासनाजालैः स्वैरेवायाति बन्धनम्।
मनो लीलामयैः बन्धैः कोशकारकृमिर्यथा॥

The beatings are the blows of fancies (or imaginations). They are indeed caused by oneself. The mind is reduced to the state of bondage only by its own net of impressions of imaginations, just as the silk worm in the cocoon confines itself by bonds with ease.

« on: October 30, 2017, 04:50:09 PM »

prapa~ncotpattireva.N hi baalakaakhyaayikaakramaat |
raajaputraaH trayaH santi shuuraa asati pattane ||

प्रपञ्चोत्पत्तिरेवँ हि बालकाख्यायिकाक्रमात्।
राजपुत्राः त्रयः सन्ति शूरा असति पत्तने॥

The origin of the world is indeed like this, in the manner of a tale narrated to a child (by the mother). There are three brave princes in a non-existent city).

Of these three, two were never born and the other one never indeed was stationed in a womb.

dadR^ishuH gagane vR^ixaan bhuktvaa svaadu ca tatphalam |
sarittritayamaaseduH pathi kallolamaalitam ||

ददृशुः गगने वृक्षान् भुक्त्वा स्वादु च तत्फलम्।
सरित्त्रितयमासेदुः पथि कल्लोलमालितम्॥

Once having gone out with the object of acquiring the best, they saw in the sky trees possessing fruits and having eaten those sweet fruits they reached three rivers crowned by large waves , on the way.

There [amongst those riverse], one was completely dry and there was not even a little water in the other two. Having bathed there and sported in the water, and having drunk the water... The three reached a city about to be (of the future), and the end of the day. There they saw three beautiful mansions. One was without walls and pillars, the other two houses were non-existent. There they obtained three pans (vessels) made of molten gold. In those pans they prepared food and served it to brahmanas who were without mouths ! Then they themselves ate the remnants and stayed there happily.

dhaatryaa hi kathitaametaa.N nirvicaaradhiyaa yathaa |
baalo nishcayamaayaati vicaarojGYitacetasaam |
iya.N sa.Nsaararacanaa.apyavasthitimupaagataa ||

धात्र्या हि कथितामेताँ निर्विचारधिया यथा।
बालो निश्चयमायाति विचारोज्ज्ञितचेतसाम्।
इयँ सँसाररचनाऽप्यवस्थितिमुपागता॥

Just as a child attains conviction in this tale narrated by the mother due to a thoughtless [unreflecting] mind, this creation of the worldly life too has assumed existence to those from whose minds reflection (or enquiry) has left (or dropped).

Vijnana Bhairava Tantra - A Perfect Meditation Method:
Verse 48.
dehaantare tvagivabhaaga.N bhittibhuuta.N vicintayet|
na ki~nchidantare tasya dhyaayannadhyeyabhaagbhavet ||

देहान्तरे त्वगिवभागँ भित्तिभूतँ विचिन्तयेत्।
न किञ्चिदन्तरे तस्य ध्यायन्नध्येयभाग्भवेत्॥

One should meditate on the body as only enclosed by the skin with nothing inside. Meditating in this way one attains the One who cannot be meditated upon (ie, Siva)
This is not imagination .... this is the truth as it is ... at some level if we think there is a body ... then the body is like a room ... if i knock at the room ... there should be someone within to respond ... if the room is empty ... there is no response ... this is the form of meditation suggested. i leave the body like an empty room .. all sensations or perceptions are like knocking at the doors of this room ... with no one to respond ... there is total Silence :)
infact there is no one if one gains a little clarity ... manasantu kim, margane krite naiva manasam marga arjavat says ramana .... which means having inquired what is mind and when tries to see its source one discovers that there is no mind and this is the most direct path ! This is Self Inquiry :) Explained another way.

Vijnana bhairaga Tantra has about 112 meditation methods ... all of them are unique and direct ... many of them lead to Self Inquiry if properly understood :)

Sri Ramakrishna Puts it beautifully in his simple style :

MASTER (to M.): ?Every now and then I think that the body is a mere pillow-case. The only real substance is the Indivisible Satchidananda.
--> Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna , Chapter 44.

General topics / Importance of Scriptural Reasoning -- Yoga Vasishta
« on: October 30, 2017, 04:37:19 PM »
Yoga Vasishta says that mind cannot be brought under control by simply bringing it back to onepointedness again and again. One has to equip oneself with proper scriptural reasoning and only then will one be able to control the mind.

उपविश्योपविश्यैकचित्तकेन मुहुर्मुहुः।
न शक्यते मनो जेतुँ विन युक्तिम्-अनिन्दिताम्॥ [Laghu yoga vasishta 28.126]

By repeatedly bringing the mind back to One-pointedness, it cannot be conquered unless one is equipped with faultless reasoning [scriptural reasoning in the context]

अङ्कुशेन विना मत्तो यथा दुष्टमतङ्गजः।
विजेतुँ शक्यते नैव तथ युकत्याविना मनः॥ [Laghu Yoga vasishta 28.127]

The mind cannot be brought under control without the application of reasoning even as a cicious elephant in rut cannot be controlled without using the hook.

Thats why Vasishta suggests:
अध्यात्मविध्यधिगमः सधुसँगम एव च।
वासनासँपरित्यागः प्रणस्पन्दनिशेधनम्॥
एतास्तु युक्तयः पुष्टाः सन्ति चितजये किल॥

Study of Scriptures, Company of the Holy, renunciation of desires and control of vital energy are the perfect
means to conquer the mind [LYV 28.128 & 129 first line].

Harih OM!

Dear Anil ji,
             :) Your selection of Kabir Dohe are really very good.


General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: October 29, 2017, 04:51:49 PM »
Dear Ravi ji,
          Thank you for the videos and the comments.
yesterday something interesting happened ill let you know in more detail a little later. Right now need to allow this understanding to settle a little to be able to explain it properly. 


General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: October 29, 2017, 04:49:29 PM »
Dear Nishta ji,
          :) nice observation. its true : holding onto self is really to not hold onto non-self. :)


General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: October 27, 2017, 02:29:05 PM »
Dear Ravi ji,
Thank you for the response.
I am waiting for the RKM response.

My guru ji told me that there is no difference :) ... he questioned me "what difference do you see between your ishta -daivam and Gayathri (as Self) " ? he was questioning on my advaita understanding... and obviously he is right.

Actually ... Dhyana for me is not a 30 mins in morning activity, its about continuous living , but i do sit down every day quietly for some time in the morning and evening and japa is one of the things i want to include. So whenever i try to include it, this question always pops up ! I personally like japa as i find it to be very useful mental training. Lets hope to see what RKM has to say.


General topics / Re: Aksharamanamalai
« on: October 27, 2017, 12:14:14 PM »
I agree with your observations on this Ravi ji.

General Discussion / Does Anyone Recognize this chant ?
« on: October 27, 2017, 12:00:24 PM »
Hi Friends ,
        In the following short clip from an extraordinary movie on Sri Ramakrishna , at 4:07 , a chant is used by Totapuri to help Sri Ramakrishna to enter meditation. It ends with Tasmai namo brahma niranjanaya ... does any one know where we can get this complete chant ?


General topics / Re: Aksharamanamalai
« on: October 27, 2017, 11:45:37 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,
          :) I really understand the import of what you are suggesting.

This is a purely personal question really -- just linked to the context.

For example: i have been chanting a particular mantra of my ishta daivata ... not very often but off and on.
and then my guru gave me gayatri ... he ensured that i chant it properly by making me repeat it in proper intonation.[very kind of him]

now i am in a fix. i do see that chanting gayathri calms the mind ... but when i chant my ishta daivata mantram i do have a feeling that i am connecting with my ishta daivata , which is not there in gayatri ...

i was seeking your advice on that. perhaps out of place to link it to this post , sorry for that. I have also posted this question to Ramakrishna Mission let me see what they have to suggest.


General topics / Re: Aksharamanamalai
« on: October 27, 2017, 11:35:57 AM »
:) this is also my personal doubt Ravi ji.

General topics / Re: Aksharamanamalai
« on: October 27, 2017, 11:19:33 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,
         :) I have a doubt here.

I am aware that Gayatri mantra, for example, has a certain chanting style that needs to be maintained. one cannot simply sing it.

But ... lets say someone does not "Feel" Devotion during simple chanting but feels it more during the singing by some singer ...

chanting in a certain way helps calm the mind. we can clearly see it by doing it. it needs no other proof.

Devotion also calms the mind.

Which should be given preference ?

Let me rephrase the question slightly different way...

suppose i go to a swami and ask for a mantra and he gives me gayatri ... and suppose i am a devotee of sri ramakrishna. simply saying ramakrishna uplifts me in devotion, but chanting gayatri also calms but is not of any devotional importance to me ...
just the name of sri ramakrishna is not a mantra in itself  in the traditional sense ...

should i chant the name of sri ramakrishna or gayatri which the swami gave me ? what is the way to decide ? pure devotion or proper chant ?? ofcourse a combination would be great ... but often times i may be devoted to a local deity for whom there is no chant as per shastras also ! :)


Dear Anil ji,
      That is so much like Bhaja Govindam isnt it ?

The second and third verses are almost the same...
second one is : ma kuru dhana jana yavvana garvam harati nimeshat kalat sarvam. [do not pride in money, people support and youth, in one twinkling of the eye time may take away everything]
third one is : yavat pavano nivasati dehe , tavat prchati kushalam gehe gatavati vayo dehapaye bharya bibhyati tasmin kaye [as long as you breathe in air, people ask about your wellfare, the moment air or prana leaves this body, even your wife shall fear this body]

infact even the first one seems to be :
ka the kanta, dana gata cinta, vatula kim tava nasti niyanta ?


General topics / Re: What is Self Inquiry ?
« on: October 25, 2017, 02:53:14 PM »
Dear Atmavichar,
              :) That is an never-ending question. Fortunately we do not require an answer for that!

Let me explain this very carefully and systematically, please read this with care...
Please see this ...

When you ask "how does thought originate". what you are asking for is a "cause" for the thought. But then, if we have a cause, we can ask for a cause for it. and this chain of < cause->effect > needs to terminate somewhere and the best way is to leave it at thought -- because trying to associate something else as cause takes us no where and does no better !

We cannot even say Awareness is the cause for Thought because thought is mithya and awareness is SAT [Mandukya Upanishad, Gaudapada karika, alata shanti prakaranam] ... and so the best answer is there is no thought itself and therefore no possibility of its origin.

Please see one important point here ... Vedantic teaching only takes us from where we are and launches us beyond. The teaching itself is only geared towards that. The entire thing is only a negation without anything positive said. I see a kind of stabilty in the world, so the negation process starts by saying thoughts are not stable and so a world built on thoughts as basis cannot be stable.  so when we say thoughts are momentary, we are really talking to a person who sees thoughts as real and dismissing their reality. that negation is the teaching. but when we ask where have they originated , its going the reverse way to establish their presence :D ... which is meaningless endeavor. If you see carefully all creation theories are also negations alone... what IS , cannot and need not be described, because its Self Evident and by itself is the basis of all explanations. So what any vedantic theory states is only a negation. here we are negating the "stability" idea of thought and along with it goes the stability idea of the world. As i said, all creation theories explained in vedanta are actually negations. when i say that the world is made of 5 elements that came together ... i am really saying that we have 5 senses that is the basis of the world that we experience ... that is a negation of the world out there independent of the 5 senses ! this is the meaning in creation theories... thats why in gaudapada karikas we dismiss all creation theories as suited for the mediocre students --- the implication is that those theories only served to negate some ideas and having done that we throw them off... its like a thorn used to remove anotehr thorn and then both are thrown away.


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