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Messages - Arjuna16

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The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Fear
« on: October 19, 2011, 04:14:02 AM »
Thank you for the replies everybody. Nagaraj, I found what you said really helpful about paying no attention to these experiences and fear, as they are only of the mind so you should not stop. And how there is really nothing to become and nothing to change. That is easy to forget. I was practicing self enquiry again last night and disregarded fear, holding onto 'I' even more intensely. I also printed off a picture of Ramana. Thank you.

You're right subramanian, courage seems to be a must. And I'm imagining the fear that people inevitably experience when the body is about to die, and they think they are that. I'll either deal with that fear when the body is about to die (you could say its already inert, I know), or deal with this fear. Probably best to deal with this one.

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The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Fear
« on: October 18, 2011, 12:29:48 AM »
Hi,
I'm feeling troubled and don't feel like I can talk to anybody in person about this. Last night I was practicing self enquiry, and started to feel 'bliss' emerging from within me. It eventually became very strong. I started telling myself that really I am the self and not the body, and it got even stronger. It felt like 'I' was sinking back to its source (I know that there was still 'I' to experience it) and I became terrified of what would happen if 'I' were completely destroyed. I remember reading about Ramana having to be fed by somebody because he was completely unable to care for himself. Lakshmana swami's disciple (mathru sri sarada?) wanted to let her body die. Eckhart tolle said it was a miracle that he even managed to eat. This all makes me too afraid to continue with self enquiry. How can I overcome this fear? Should I be afraid? Have any of you experienced this fear?

I'm feeling really trapped right now because this is all that seems important, but it scares me so much.

Thanks for your time,

Arjuna

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srkudai, do you mean that you will not "find" something "new" because there really is no doer of actions, and what is there is what we really are, and has always been there? (The self is the only reality).


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Thanks for the replies everybody. I feel like my understanding of what to do is getting better. So finding the source is not a mental analysis. Knowing this clears up much more of my confusion.

So do you mean that when the source is revealed, I should just be that, or rest in it? Sometimes I have put my attention onto the 'I'-sense, and after a while it started to dissolve, and then there is a strong wave of 'bliss' that starts to spread out. It sometimes feels like its pulling 'me' deep into it. This doesn't last too long though, and the more 'I' try to prolong it the faster it ends. The confusion I have been having is that I did not find it, it just revealed itself when the 'I'-sense started to dissolve. But Bhagavan always said to "find the source", so I thought that I was doing something wrong. Perhaps not?  :)

Arjuna

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After re-reading the first 3 posts of this thread, self-enquiry seems clearer. Although this part is still not clear to me.
"when one learns to remain focused on this IS Buddhi or presense I am, or awareness, thoughts slow down......By intentionally identifying 'I' with its source, that is remaining as awareness."


Subramanian, I am confused about how to find the source of the thinker. Do we just hold our attention to the 'I' until the self is revealed? What I mean is, the question; "Who am I?" is not a mental excercise as pointed out by srkudai in the first few posts of this thread. He says that it is a reminder to turn attention to the subject of the thoughts. So what about the question; "Where does this I come from?" Is this also supposed to be some sort of awareness as well?

Let me know if my question is unclear and I will try to re-phrase it.

Arjuna

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Okay so the 'I' sense is just the result of a serious of 'I' thoughts strung together. For example: "I am watching TV", followed by "I don't like this show", followed by "I want to change the channel". This happening all the time creating the illusion that there is an 'I'? Is that what you mean srkudai?

I thought that the thoughts appeared because there was the illusion of an individual 'I', ego or mind, but its actually the continuous thoughts that create the illusion? Thoughts, mind, ego, individual 'I' are all the same thing?

Subramanian and srkudai, could you describe how you practice self-enquiry? I think I learn best through personal examples.

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Okay, you are saying that we are not the 'I' and there is no individual 'I', and I understand that. You say that when we get an 'I'-thought it vanishes before we can do anything, so we don't need to do anything. I think we both have different perceptions on what the 'I'-thought is. Thoughts can vanish very quickly before we can do anything, but the 'I'-thought or sense of self does not vanish easily. Subramanian has said that Ramana used 'thought' and 'mind' interchangably. But If thought and mind are used interchangably, then they lead to two different outcomes.
Ramana said very often to "find the source of the 'I'-thought". If the 'I'-thought here is just thoughts, the source of these thoughts is the mind/ego/little-'I'. If the 'I'-thought means the mind/ego/little-'I', then finding its source would lead to the self.

In the other thread about Experiences with Self-Enquiry, Eranilkumarsinha said that the proper self-enquiry invoves: Holding onto the 'I', seeking its source, and abiding in it. When thoughts arise and distract you, return your attention to the thinker of the thought. Is this correct? This seems to make sense to me because when I look within to ask "whose voice is this?" the answer is 'I'. But when I ask "where does this 'I' or mind arise, I can't see any answer.

I appreciate all of your responses in trying to help come to a better understanding.
Arjuna

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Thank you for the replies everybody. I think I am still confused, but will try and find out who it is that is actually confused.

Srkudai, so you are saying that "I am typing these words" or "I am reading your words" is an 'I' thought? And I should find out the source of that I thought? That would lead me to the little illusory 'I'. From my readings I understood that the 'little I' was the I thought, and that one is supposed to hold the little I and find ITS source. It was my understanding that "I am tryping these words" is just a thought that comes from the 'I'-thought.

From Be As You Are p76
"Q:Am I to think 'Who am I?'
 A:You have known that the 'I'-thought springs forth. Hold the 'I' thought and find its source."

It doesn't make sense to me that you can find the source of the little I with your mind, but it makes sense for me to be able to find the source of the thoughts, which is the little I. Sri Ramana often says to "hold the 'I' thought and find its source", but I don't know how to find its source with the mind. I'm pretty sure I've had glimpses of the self where I held the little I and it kindof dissolved and gave me a glimpse of the real I without my searching for it with my mind. Am I supposed to search for it? Or do I only need to hold the little I?

If I am completely wrong and misguided I look forward to your corrections :)
Arjuna


 




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I have a couple questions about self-enquiry.

I'm very confused about the question 'Who am I?' even though it is so simple. Are you supposed to place your attention on the 'false I' that is the source of all the the thoughts, or are you supposed to trace the 'false I' back to its source? So basically are you tracing the thoughts back to their source and holding your attention there, or tracing the ego back to its source?

I find it easy to hold onto the false, subjective feeling 'I', but how do you trace the 'I' back to the source if thats the case? Does you just ask 'where does this I come from?' and turn your attention into yourself or to an answer without trying to think of one?

Thanks for the help,
Arjuna

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