The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi => Topic started by: Anand on March 27, 2019, 05:54:17 PM

Title: Bhagawans important clue for self enquiry.
Post by: Anand on March 27, 2019, 05:54:17 PM
Dear friends,One of the simplest self enquiry practices informed by Ramana Maharshi  is as under. Just after waking up naturally in the morning,preferably  without an alarm, say weekends spend a few minutes quietly in the feeling of existence ie your feeling of I am for which no one else need point out to you. Repeated practice will help you recognize this feeling even in your day to day work affairs and you feel this under current of peace even during the trials and tribulations of day to day existence.i feel we can practice this even after siestas that we sometimes take in the afternoons. There has to be a firm determination before going to sleep,to hold onto the I am after waking and abiding in it.Just remember to spend a few moments of quiet silence, before embarking on the work required to be done next.All of us are intrinsically divine, and this exercise reminds us  just that.
Title: Re: Bhagawans important clue for self enquiry.
Post by: ksksat27 on April 23, 2019, 05:29:43 PM
i already told once about the practical difficulty of this after wake practices.....

the first feeling i get is the need to go to washroom to relieve myself ...i wake up thrice or four times in the night and every time i dont feel any of the clarity or thoughtless I etc.  i am just tagged with my body and rush to wash room to relieve myself...

what do you do with people like me? full body consciousness even in sleep
Title: Re: Bhagawans important clue for self enquiry.
Post by: Ravi.N on April 24, 2019, 06:50:56 AM

You are asking: "what do you do with people like me? full body consciousness even in sleep"
The question that you actually meant to ask is :'What do I do?...full body consciousness even in sleep'
Firstly ,the second part 'full body consciousness even in sleep' is inferred knowledge ...and is not the actual sleep experience sleep,you were not conscious of the is only on waking up that you become conscious of the body as 'i am the body'....and since you are so identified,you INFER that this is on account of 'full body consciousness' persisting even in sleep....this is quite clear and there should be no doubt concerning this the very least ,one can easily DOUBT this sort of an inference to begin with.

We next come to the core question: 'What do I Do?'
For gaining a perspective,let us say that we asked a trustworthy person the way to the nearest bus stop...and he tells us that it is near and should not take more than 10 minutes to reach...and further points the way with clear directions...and we start walking towards it...We walk and walk for 30 minutes and the bus stop is not anywhere in sight,what do we do?....We immediately DOUBT whether we are on track....We RETRACE our Steps on account of this DOUBT (otherwise we will continue to proceed in the wrong direction!).

The point here is that DOUBT is a powerful means!... how is this relevant in this context?
'What do I Do?'...'Where do i begin?'...Begin to DOUBT that you are the Body...this certainly can be already know that it was not experienced in sleep and only on waking up you are conscious of yourself as the Body.

The Moment you seriously doubt your 'I am the Body' you have already embarked on 'who am I ?' enquiry....if we TRULY and SERIOUSLY  doubt the 'I am the Body' consciousness ,we are said to be Practicing 'Neti,Neti' ... but not  in a 'willed' way of NEGATION (Denial) as you have assumed 'Neti,Neti' to be in your several posts,the Key is to sow the seed of doubt into the 'I am the Body' idea!...It is this IDEA that is apparently SOLIDIFIED into 'I am the Body' CONSCIOUSNESS!...DOUBT this very SOLIDITY! ...DOUBT this very 'I am the Body' idea ...We are not denying it but doubting its reality....This sort of a DOUBT is nothing but Shraddha in a veiled form!...It is Shraddha in the words of the Guru.

Was Bhagavan not aware of the excruciating pain in the body?....Did he Identify himself with the Body?,it is clear that we may very well function with the Body ,answer the calls of Nature ,assuage the Hunger Pangs,enjoy the cool breeze on a hot summer day and yet be aware of who we truly are.

I do not wish to suggest more...see what the DOUBT means to you!...see for yourself where it leads you...Of course ,we may very well continue with other practices like Parayana,puja,Japa and  whatever one is inclined to do.

Title: Re: Bhagawans important clue for self enquiry.
Post by: ksksat27 on April 26, 2019, 03:25:13 PM
thanks for the golden reply.

that is one aspect sir.

now come to practical difficulty and biological thing.

people glorify clarity after deep sleep and ask us to focus on I after sleep etc.
but for diabetes people like me , these things dont apply.  first we dont get real real deep sleep always.

even in those rare real real deep sleep days,  when i wake up, i wake up with a very strong body sensation to ease out and i rush to wash room. now in this scenario there is not even a split second when the I thought stays pure without body attachment. the whole universe appears with this vigorous feeling of ease out only.  this is the difficulty sir.

so my question is , how to meditate on pure I thought after sleep in such a scenario without moving from the bed.
Title: Re: Bhagawans important clue for self enquiry.
Post by: srkudai on April 27, 2019, 06:21:49 AM
Dear ksksat27,
     :) No need to do anything in sleep. We are already "doing" a lot. Continuously.
If you relax and live a conscious life during the day. Relaxed Alertness. There is no need to worry about sleep.
Sleep shall take care of itself.  The idea is to understand that there is no "I" apart from the Self. the Self IS, and this body is only am empty boat , there is no one  inside to quarrel with things, ideas, feelings , happenings.
So if you feel a physical urge... its ok -- there is no one to fight it. No one to say this should not happen.
The Relaxed Awareness/ Presence within, is absolutely mute about this.
The body too is only prompting ... the sensations etc are there.
There is "one" person within who is in disagreement with what is happening. Who is constantly judging oneself as incomplete , weak etc. This "person", goes by other names as mind, ego etc. Who constantly comments upon the events of life. In this vast creation... if we observe carefully this is the only voice of descent, disharmony.

This person is to be recognized as an illusion. This is Self Inquiry. Manasantu kim margane krite , naiva manasam marga arjavat. to see whence is this voice of descent arising and discover that here is no one out here. The Awareness does not have trouble. This body is absolutely mute. so body may simply disintegrate but is not worried that its getting old! the sensations we experience are also mute. the internal mental commentary is not of the body. so this Self inquiry is to see that there is no one inside and this empty boat is now absolutely free. There being no one within other than the physical body and the presence or awareness within ... who has a problem with what is ? who does what ?

The idea is to simply to try living thus:

सुखमास्ते सुखं शेते
सुखमायाति याति च।
सुखं वक्ति सुखं भुंक्ते
व्यवहारेऽपि शान्तधीः॥१८- ५९॥

sukham : in that relaxed state of awareness ,
when you stand , stand in that sukham.
when you sit , sit thus.
when you come or go , when you speak, when you experience the world.

This is liberated living. That Relaxed Awareness is God.  That is I AM.

Title: Re: Bhagawans important clue for self enquiry.
Post by: Ravi.N on April 27, 2019, 08:48:38 AM
Udai Garu has given a nice response... but then it is only when we get to observe and get a handle on our own that we can truly pick our way and proceed in an assured manner.

"now come to practical difficulty and biological thing"
Indeed this is taken into account in my response...this is the reason that i have referred to Bhagavan's cancer and the excruciating pain that it caused ...Bhagavan did acknowledge 'Yes,there is pain' but he never said 'I am in pain' or 'I am suffering'.....Pain is sensed by the mind based on  the stimuli by the Body's defence mechanism informing that there is something wrong with the body and it needs attention...and it is very very PRACTICAL to respond in whatever manner to mitigate that pain through appropriate treatment...but apart from just responding and taking appropriate action, the mind is vexed that such a thing has happened ,that the 'Pain' is unbearable,that it is not going away,that there is no cure,that this sort of a thing has to be endured for a lifetime (long or short)...this is the 'sufferer' ,the 'ego sense'...The Ego sense does not exist apart from this sort of an association....and this is how the 'wrong identification' comes about...and this is perpetuated through all the experiences (positive and negative) that we undergo and we take the 'experiencer' as 'I'... and it is this 'I' that is now posing all the questions to solve the 'problems' that it has created!...So,the very first thing that can be done is to begin doubting this very 'I' !...this is the gist of what i have already posted....This is very very Practical and 'doable'.

Although what has been stated above is 'doable' ,in pragmatic terms (In practical terms ,i suppose that you are getting the Diabetes treated) it is helpful to understand the play of Gunas....the mind is always in a state of Flux and is under the sway of these Gunas...I do not wish to elaborate much on this is enough to recognize the operation of the Gunas....once we learn to recognize the play of the Gunas,we can take recourse to the appropriate sadhanas to stay 'Afloat' and oriented in the Right direction without being swept away...this is important so that we do not reduce ourselves to 'formula Sadhana' and make things more difficult for what is needed is alert vigilance and alertness and endless patience ...when the satva Guna predominates,everything seems clear and 'Practical'...when 'Tamo guna' predominates the very same 'Practical' approach becomes inaccessible and everything becomes drab and standstill if one has become worse than even an inert Stone! has to stay oriented with the Full trust and confidence that the 'siege' will get cleared sooner or later...and instead of passively waiting for it to clear,one has to be up and doing ,engaging oneself in any positive activity ,be it gardening or a Walk in a garden,or whatever is wholesome and appealing ....use the 'Tamas' to 'Let Go' !...The INNER ATTITUDE has to be maintained that no matter whatever be the outer appearances ,one is a 'Devotee' totally in the Hands of the Divine and that the inner ruler Knows what is best and will get it done ....THIS IS ABSOLUTELY PRACTICAL.

The Fundamental attitude is to Realize that the whole purpose of life is to Realize this everlasting verity that is already bequeathed to us...we only need to claim it...and all other activities in Life is only subservient to this supreme objective.

This surely does not preclude us from enjoying all the innocent joys of life...we may enjoy the smell of Flowers,the coolness of a sea Breeze,the laughter of a child,the beauty in a wrinkled face,a  Game of Tennis or Cricket,Whatever be it....Sadhana need not be a kill Swami Vivekananda said 'The first sign of progress is that you become cheerful'!....indeed as Bhagavan said in his wonderful Appalam song 'சந்ததம் சலிப்பற சந்தோஷமாகவே அப்பளம் இட்டு பாரு' (Forever joyous sans weariness,fashion the appalam and see (for yourself!) ).

We are Divine in essence and no force can alter this Fact...Why should we think that we are 'unworthy' or  'unfortunate soul' etc etc and get further caught in the mire of our own creation?....Swami Vivekananda used to call out 'Aye! Away with all this'!....and Bhagavan woud say 'என்ன ஓய் ' (What 'Oye' ?)...So,irrespective of however bleak the APPEARANCE ,Reality has nothing to do with it...Carry on with the sadhana cheerfully always recalling Bhagavan's mantra : 'சந்ததம் சலிப்பற சந்தோஷமாகவே அப்பளம் இட்டு பாரு'...Wishing you the very best.

Title: Re: Bhagawans important clue for self enquiry.
Post by: Ravi.N on April 27, 2019, 10:09:30 AM
"people glorify clarity after deep sleep and ask us to focus on I after sleep etc.
but for diabetes people like me , these things dont apply.  first we don't get real real deep sleep always".

It is a helpful thing to observe and take advantage of....there is no 'Glorification' of any sort..Bhagavan does point out such an aspect so that the sadhakas can recognize it for what it is and take advantage....and no need to PAY attention to is enough to be simply aware of this clarity and state of pure Being....and not STIR the mind even into thinking about it!....and least of all to allow the mind to run outward and fill it with cares and  anxieties and preoccupations....One may get up and do all the activities like brushing the teeth,having a hot cup of tea or coffeee or Take a bath,or whatever ...All such activities may take place while the mind stays centered.

The Waking up and the quality of sleep depends not just on the Physical condition but also the state of the mind and the Thoughts that were nurtured and accumulated before going to sleep in the first place...It is not as if Sleep can magically undo all the,it is important that there be no regrets, anxieties or negative emotions before going to sleep...Everyday,the account book should be tallied and closed properly....Ofcourse Problems and challenges will be there and may defy immediate solution ....but what need not be there is the associated stress and unrest...this can definitely be set aside and the challenges may be taken up the next day at an appropriate time...this sort of a discipline can be instilled into the mind and must be done.

What to do if 'Sleep' is not forthcoming?...even Swami Vivekananda had such a problem!...The best thing that one can do is not to 'worry' about it and not to question its absence ....just turn into an opportunity to find time for sadhana (whatever it may be)....just 'Let Go' and Simply Be...Be in smarana not count how many hours you will find that this practice would set aright the Balance and bring in the needed Rhythm...The mind will stay calm and cheerful and fit to take on the responsibilities without being overwhelmed.

Title: Re: Bhagawans important clue for self enquiry.
Post by: Anand on May 01, 2019, 10:17:58 AM
The importance of this forum and similar forums is to somehow imbibe the practice of focussing on the ' I am' feeling ' even amidst seemingly turbulent happenings in the outside world. Many thanks to Ravi Sir and Udai Sir for repeatedly emphasing this else where and here as well as other learned members through other posts. As far as the morning practice is concerned, even if the natural biological necessity is there, we should still try to get a few seconds of silence before proceeding since Bhagwan advocated this strongly. Some possible steps could be to reduce water intake just before going to sleep and getting a grip on diabetic condition.We could even in the process of fulfilling this biological necessity, try to focus on the I am. But we should somehow try to remind ourselves of the I am feeling through out the day which itself should be enough and drive us to a deeper practice. Hence we should reread the forum messages of these members who have been able to practice in the midst of their day to activities, and try to internalise this practice.Every post or a reply including the cryptic one liners of our beloved 'Beloved Abstract' is Bhagawans grace to us to spur us to remember the I am.
Title: Re: Bhagawans important clue for self enquiry.
Post by: Beloved Abstract on July 07, 2019, 09:28:28 AM
Title: Re: Bhagawans important clue for self enquiry.
Post by: Beloved Abstract on July 29, 2019, 08:34:38 AM
importance comes and goes .... truth never changes