The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi => Topic started by: Rajat on November 07, 2018, 07:56:16 AM

Title: I-am-the-body idea and enquiry
Post by: Rajat on November 07, 2018, 07:56:16 AM
I find that my conviction that I am not this body is not too strong. I can see to an extent that the physical body is insentient like a log and cannot say 'I', but there is no full conviction or understanding that the five sheaths I am not. I am reading Bhagavan's texts such as Ulladu Narpadu and Upadesa Saram to strengthen my understanding. It has helped to an extent to see that in dream i experience a different body as I, and in deep sleep I experience myself without experiencing a body as I. So clearly I can't be this body. What other clues are there that I am not this body?
More importantly do I need this conviction for enquiry, or it is irrelevant? I feel I am stuck in my enquiry and would appreciate any pointers on how to proceed. Thanks!
Title: Re: I-am-the-body idea and enquiry
Post by: Rajat on November 07, 2018, 08:28:06 AM
What is the difference between staying with 'I' and staying with and abiding as I Am? Bhagavan has mentioned both these approaches. With my limited understanding on this matter, I make out the following difference: there are two 'I', one is the false distorted self awareness that identifies with the five sheaths (physical body, life or prana, mind, intellect, will) and the other is the real I of pure awareness. But I Am is always one because it points to being or existence, it is not pointing to an I but to the fact that the I 'is', something that even an ignoramus like me cannot deny. But which I is the I in I Am pointing to? When I am asked to attend to I, which I is being spoken of? Is the second I a special kind of I or just the simply everyday experience of I, the place in me which 'knows' , and the difference between me and a log of insentient wood? If the mind has difficulty finding the I, isn't it the clearest indication that the I is being looked for as an object and hence cannot be found because of wrong understanding that the I can be found as an object? It seems like just seeing that I have been trying to find myself as an object automatically to an extent corrects the misunderstanding and pushed towards true subjective awareness.
I am full of doubts and questions but wary of deluding myself and playing subtle ego games and believing something because I want to believe it, because I feel it will alleviate my suffering. Therefore I'm asking these questions here, and would really appreciate your insights. Thanks
Title: Re: I-am-the-body idea and enquiry
Post by: ksksat27 on November 07, 2018, 11:18:50 AM

keep it simple.  you can only focus on your ego based I and start self enquiry...the real I , the awareness or consciousness or the totality called God or the Cosmic Existence does not need any self enquiry.

so by a dog tracing its masters house by the scent, we have this clue in the reflected individual consciousness called the false I.  but false I is the only capital you have. so you just feel this clue of existence, simple fact that you exist. that is the starting step of self enquiry.

what happens after that is beyond words.
Title: Re: I-am-the-body idea and enquiry
Post by: Rajat on November 08, 2018, 07:53:29 AM
Thank you for your kind and clear reply. This is really helpful!
Title: Re: I-am-the-body idea and enquiry
Post by: Jewell on November 15, 2018, 04:51:13 AM
Dear Rajat,

The conviction that You are not the body will come,all Your efforts in the search of Truth,,meditation,reflections,and in the end,selfenquiry itself will bring it. Do not worry. All Your doubts will go with it.
Sure, there is no second or other 'I'. Bhagavan many times pointed this fact,and asked us to see for ousrelves what this 'I' is and does it exist at all. Off course,in this very search we will discover many apparent I's,and this was my difficulty also.  And this difficulty will leave only when we understand that any 'I which involves the mind is false 'I.
You have asked: "But which I is the I in I Am pointing to? -That I which You truly are. And You will recognize false 'I' easily with time,so to say, since the Self is free of mind, and all conclusions and knowledge are irrelevant since they belong to mind realm and this very error that we are the doers of all actions. Where no mind is,there is the Self.

Dear Rajat,Your entusiasm for this search is what is important,so i feel You are going in good direction if You only keep this inner fire bright.

With love,

Like our friend Kskat said 'We need to keep it simple. Whenever we catch ourselves in the net of thoughts,we are out of selfenquiry.
Sure,this process is needed also. There is some power in it too. After all, everything is the Self only.
Title: Re: I-am-the-body idea and enquiry
Post by: Beloved Abstract on December 25, 2018, 05:25:46 AM
silence is truth , everything else is illusion...... pretty simple