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Ramana Maharshi => General topics => Topic started by: atmavichar100 on January 16, 2015, 07:27:20 PM

Title: Thirukural Thread
Post by: atmavichar100 on January 16, 2015, 07:27:20 PM
Today i.,e  Fri 16 Jan 2015 Thiruvalluvar Day I have started an exclusive thread to discuss about Thirukural , the great text given by Saint Thiruvalluvar for the entire Humanity .Tiruvalluvar Day marks the birth anniversary of the immortal Tamil Poet-Saint Thiruvalluvar. He is the author of Kural or Thirukural, a poetic composition of 1330 verses , a great antiquity in Tamil Literature which can be termed as a treatise on the art of living a happy and peaceful life.Thiruvalluvar in Thirukural diagnoses the intricacies of human nature and one will be captivated by his thorough knowledge of human psychology. Many of his insights on human mind are yet to be studied by modern psychology. His advices on various topics are sagacious and practical and are relevant in all times. Each new generation is attracted to his teachings in the Thirukural as it is not hampered by prejudice or dogma of any kind.

Here  are some facts of Thirukural .

Source :
 http://www.quora.com/Tamil-language/What-are-some-mind-blowing-facts-about-Thirukural (http://www.quora.com/Tamil-language/What-are-some-mind-blowing-facts-about-Thirukural)

1. Out of the 247 Tamil alphabets, just 37 have been used in the Thirukural
2. The only two flowers in the book are Anicham (Scarlet Pimpernel) and Kuvalai (Cup Flower)
3. Nezlhunji fruit is the only fruit featuring in the book
4. The only seed featuring in the book is, Kundrimani (Crab?s eye tree)
5. The two trees featuring in the boor are Palm and Bamboo.
6. The alphabet featuring the most times is ?னி? it features 1705 times.
7. The letters featuring only once are ளீ,ங .
8. The two words that are not used in the thirukural are தமிழ்(Tamil), கடவுள்(A word meaning God in Tamil).
9. The  first Tirukkural and Naladiyar texts published. This was by  Gnanaprakasam in 1812 and printed at the Masadinacaritai Printers in  Madras.
10. Total no of words is 14,000.
11. Total no of letters is 42,194.
12. Out of 247 letters,37 letters never used.
13. Number 9 never used.
14. The word 'Kodi' (Crore) used in 7 places.
15. The word '70 kodi' appears only once.
16. Translated into 26 Languages.
17. Translated into English by 40 authors.

These are the 5 Thirukkural?s that wont touch lips.
 310

 இறந்தார் இறந்தார் அனையர் சினத்தைத்
 துறந்தார் துறந்தார் துணை

 Iṟantār iṟantār aṉaiyar ciṉattait
 Tuṟantār tuṟantār tuṇai

 341

 யாதனின் யாதனின் நீங்கியான் நோதல்
 அதனின் அதனின் இலன்

 Yātaṉiṉ yātaṉiṉ nīṅkiyāṉ nōtal
 Ataṉiṉ ataṉiṉ ilaṉ

 489

 எய்தற்கு அரியது இயைந்தக்கால் அந்நிலையே
 செய்தற்கு அரிய செயல்

 Eytaṟku ariyatu iyaintakkāl annilaiyē
 Ceytaṟku ariya ceyal

 1082

 நோக்கினாள் நோக்கெதிர் நோக்குதல் தாக்கணங்கு
 தானைக்கொண் டன்னது உடைத்து

 Nōkkiṉāḷ nōkketir nōkkutal tākkaṇaṅku
 Tāṉaikkoṇ ṭaṉṉatu uṭaittu

 1296

 தனியே இருந்து நினைத்தக்கால் என்னைத்
 தினிய இருந்ததுஎன் நெஞ்சு

 Taṉiyē iruntu niṉaittakkāl eṉṉait
 Tiṉiya iruntatu?eṉ ne?cu

Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: atmavichar100 on January 16, 2015, 07:34:26 PM
Other facts of Thirukural :

All the Kurals have only 7 words and thus all the 1330 ThiruKuraLs fit within 140 characters. So we could say Thiruvalluvar, the author of ThirukuraL is world's 1st Tweeter!

The word 'Tamil' never occurs in any of the Kurals even once. Rightly making it as 'Ulaga Podhu Marai' (common to all irrespective of language,culture and ethnicity)

The word 'kadavul' does not appear in thirukkural
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: atmavichar100 on January 16, 2015, 07:37:51 PM
Many consider Thirukural to be an anti vedic , anti sanskrit , anti brahmin book especially by the Dravidian Parties in TN . Here is a link to the views of Thirukural by a Vedic , Sanskrit Scholar and he has found lot of similarities between Thirukural and Vedic Teachings:

http://snsriramadesikan.com/thirukkural.html#Tirukkural (http://snsriramadesikan.com/thirukkural.html#Tirukkural)
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: atmavichar100 on January 17, 2015, 11:48:54 AM
PM Modi releases Gujarati translation of 'Thirukkural'

Source : http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/pm-modi-releases-gujarati-translation-of-thirukkural_1531558.html (http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/pm-modi-releases-gujarati-translation-of-thirukkural_1531558.html)

New Delhi: Prime Minister Narendra Modi Friday released a Gujarati translation of Thiruvalluvar`s "Thirukkural", which holds a prime place among the classical Tamil literary works, an official statement said.

Friday was also observed as `Thiruvalluvar Day` dedicated to celebrated Tamil poet and philosopher, it said.
"I bow to the great Thiruvalluvar. Simple and vast in scope, his thoughts and writings have been a strong influence on humanity for centuries," Modi said on the occasion.


"The ideas expressed in `Thirukkural` are so universal that even after almost two millennia they are still relevant and revered. `Thirukkural` does not refer to any nation, leader, society, language, religion or caste in the entire book, which is why it has been called the universal Veda."


The Central Institute of Classical Tamil, an institute under the human resource development ministry, has taken up the mission of bringing out the "Thirukkural" in all Indian languages in which it has not been translated so far. The institute also proposes to launch an e-version of the book shortly.


The Gujarati translation has been done by P. C. Kokila, born in Gujarat, a professor of Hindi, and a resident of Tamil Nadu.
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: ksksat27 on January 20, 2015, 06:19:06 PM
Thirukural is unparallel and philsophical. 

please write one kural in a post.  i think your font size is very large.

kadavul is not used , but Iraivan,  Deivam etc. are used in many places.

And one must take pre-caution to stop with arathu paal.   portul paal and kaamathu paal not good for sadhaks, especially kaamathu paal.
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: atmavichar100 on January 23, 2015, 12:59:29 PM
Quote
please write one kural in a post.  i think your font size is very large.

Dear Kskat

I am right now studying Thirukural along with Bhagavad Gita and once my study matures I will write my own thoughts on the same . Right now I will only be posting here others opinions and translations of Thirukural as they are also part of my continued study . I conider Thirukural more as a reflective text that one must meditate upon and reflect his/her own life according to the Kurals and see the Truth of the same . Take For example this Thiru Kural "Theeyinal sutta punn ullaarum aaraathe naavinaal sutta vadu -தீயினால் சுட்ட புண் உள்ளாறும் ஆறாதே நாவினால் சுட்ட வடு -
The wounds of fire would vanish with time but the wounds caused by words never. "
  If we reflect on this Kural and see for ourselves how we were effected by wounds caused by words of others and how we caused wounds to others through our words then we can really see the Truth of this Thirukural . The same with each and every Thirukural .
I will do my best to share as much as I can the various resources of Thirukural First and then write in my own thoughts of the same .
As regards Fonts I deliberatly keep it big and highlight the key points accordingly as I found many Senior Citizens have diifculty in reading the small texts and want it big enough so that they can read it clearly even at a distance . That is one of the reasons why I also keep my posts quite short but with big fonts .
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: atmavichar100 on January 23, 2015, 01:20:35 PM
An Excellent site for all the Thirukurals , their Trnsliteration with their meanings in Tamil as well as English .

http://www.gokulnath.com/thirukurals (http://www.gokulnath.com/thirukurals)
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: ksksat27 on January 23, 2015, 05:42:11 PM
Dear sir wonderful.

ok you can keep fonts big if it helps old age people sir.....

I have few kurals to give more insights:  can you kindly give some insights on this?    I always study only Arathu paal.  what is your suggestion?  Kaamathu paal is not good for sadhaks ?

vaiyathul vaazhvaangu vaazhbhavan vaanuraiyum deivathul vaikka padum

thondrir pugazhodu thondruga adhilaar thondralin thondraamai nandru etc. 

Regards,
Krishna
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: atmavichar100 on January 23, 2015, 10:08:02 PM
Kskat

I am really not an authority to give my opinion on the Kurals that you have given or on  Kamathu Pal as I have not studied that .I am also a beginner only to Kural and have learned it in bits and pieces  and only now studying them properly and have started with Arathu Pal . As I said I consider Thirukural to be a very practical text that we need to use it to reflect on our own life as well as others .Just like when we feel dejected we contemplate on the wise words of our elders ,I feel Thirukural ( as well as Bhagavad Gita ) are tools for ur to reflect and apply appropriate course correction .
Also I feel the solution for one Kural will be in another chapter in another Kural and so it is better to study all the Thirukurals to get a very complete picture .
One More thing I wish to add - do not be too focussed on getting the right meaning in the first attempt itself .Keep studying the text and keep memorising the Thirukuals and these Kurals will enter your mind as divine seeds and will start yielding divine fruits in due course .That is the power of these divine texts like Thirukural , Bhagavad Gita , Thevaram , Thiruvachagam , Thiru arutpa , Bhagavan Ramana's Tamil Works etc . People go to Temples , Holy Places , Samadhis of Saints etc etc to receive the divine blessings and no doubt all these activities give divine blessings but one thing which I found effective that everyone can follow wherever they are are to study these divine texts daily with devotion and these divine texts will shower their grace of the reader .  Bhagavan Ramana may not be available in a Human form but his grace is available to us through his divine works . Same with Thirukural . The divine poets grace is there for those who study it sincerely and contemplate on  it daily . I will keep sharing my insights here as and when I progress on the same and till then keep posting others talks , views on Thirukural .

I suggest you listen to the excellent talk on Thirukural by Ilankai Jeyraj , a Tamil Eelam Saivite Spiritual Scholar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24aAH95Df_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24aAH95Df_A)
 
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on January 24, 2015, 08:15:37 AM
atmavichar,
Excellent talk by Ilangai jeyaraj that covers so simply and succinctly varna ashrama dharma.Further without the dharmic foundation spiritual growth is just impossible.I also recommend the book Weavers wisdom,English translation of Tirukkural by the Himalayan academy.The Foreword by sri sivaya subramuniya swami is quite incisive and how this translation has been done and how it compares with the other translations is beautifully brought out.
https://www.himalayanacademy.com/book/weavers-wisdom (https://www.himalayanacademy.com/book/weavers-wisdom)

Sage TGN gave a series of 10 talks on Tirukkural ,the key to understand the couplets,how to break free from the Regimentation of chapterization(the classification into chapters happened much later as per the understanding/misunderstanding of the scholars).Many were the wonderful insights that TGN brought out-and in the process he let out the secret 'naan ahak katchiyai kandathai ungalukku sollugiren-I am narrating to you what I have seen in my inner vision.you will not find it in any book.'

Namaskar
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: atmavichar100 on January 24, 2015, 01:01:10 PM
Dear Sri Ravi & Others

I know about Sage TGN's views on Thirukural and I suggest that when you have time you write his explanations on the same .This thread is only meant only for  Thirukural .So feel free to share any good insights , resources that you have on Thirukural .
BTW Thanks for the link to the book "Weavers Wisdom" ,I have downloaded the same .
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: ksksat27 on January 24, 2015, 08:51:26 PM
Kskat

I am really not an authority to give my opinion on the Kurals that you have given or on  Kamathu Pal as I have not studied that .I am also a beginner only to Kural and have learned it in bits and pieces  and only now studying them properly and have started with Arathu Pal . As I said I consider Thirukural to be a very practical text that we need to use it to reflect on our own life as well as others .Just like when we feel dejected we contemplate on the wise words of our elders ,I feel Thirukural ( as well as Bhagavad Gita ) are tools for ur to reflect and apply appropriate course correction .
Also I feel the solution for one Kural will be in another chapter in another Kural and so it is better to study all the Thirukurals to get a very complete picture .
One More thing I wish to add - do not be too focussed on getting the right meaning in the first attempt itself .Keep studying the text and keep memorising the Thirukuals and these Kurals will enter your mind as divine seeds and will start yielding divine fruits in due course .That is the power of these divine texts like Thirukural , Bhagavad Gita , Thevaram , Thiruvachagam , Thiru arutpa , Bhagavan Ramana's Tamil Works etc . People go to Temples , Holy Places , Samadhis of Saints etc etc to receive the divine blessings and no doubt all these activities give divine blessings but one thing which I found effective that everyone can follow wherever they are are to study these divine texts daily with devotion and these divine texts will shower their grace of the reader .  Bhagavan Ramana may not be available in a Human form but his grace is available to us through his divine works . Same with Thirukural . The divine poets grace is there for those who study it sincerely and contemplate on  it daily . I will keep sharing my insights here as and when I progress on the same and till then keep posting others talks , views on Thirukural .

I suggest you listen to the excellent talk on Thirukural by Ilankai Jeyraj , a Tamil Eelam Saivite Spiritual Scholar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24aAH95Df_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24aAH95Df_A)
 


I agree sir,  repeating the divine text inward as I walk and go in bus helps tremendously in the sadhana.   I have that experience with Sri Ramana's Arunachala related poems like Navamanimalai, arunachala pathigam, arunachala pancharatnam and my Heart favorite Arunachala Asksharamani malai. only thing that soothes the mind is the reading or playing of Arunachala poems and upadesa undhiyar.

Earlier some kurals will go into my mind and rewind itself time and again -- like piravi perungadal neendhuvaar neendhaar iraivanadi seraadhar , anbirkum undo adaikkum thaazh etc.

Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on January 25, 2015, 07:46:47 AM
Friends,

கற்க கசடறக் கற்பவை கற்றபின்
நிற்க அதற்குத் தக.
                        couplet 391

Learn thoroughly(without doubt or blemish)that which is learnt;Having learnt
Stand as That(as per that)

In this one couplet,The Great Sage Tiruvalluvar packs everything that is indispensable to Living.The Question arises as to what is  learning?Is he referring to learning of Physics,Chemistry or mathematics or a vocation?Is he referring to the systematic gathering of any sort of information and learning it without an iota of a doubt and obtain 100 % marks in an examination?

We have the clue to the nature of கல்வி in these couplets:

ஒருமைக்கண் தான் கற்ற கல்வி ஒருவற்கு
எழுமையும் ஏமாப் புடைத்து
                                      Couplet 398

This is usually translated like this:
The learning a man secures in one birth will secure his well-being in seven.

Again we need to contemplate on what is ஒருமைக்கண்-Is Tiruvalluvar refering to 'birth' here?What is that which one learns that will accompany him and secure him in seven generations or births?
Is it possible that Tiruvalluvar is referring to the Unity of our Being or Existence when he says ஒருமைக்கண் ?

ஒருமைக்கண் தான் கற்ற கல்வி then refers to Self Knowledge and He who has this knowledge and stands as That-This learning is never lost and secures his well being forever.

In couplet 393 Tiruvalluvar says:
கண்ணுடையர் என்பவர் கற்றோர் முகத்திரண்டு
புண்ணுடையர் கல்லா தவர்

Those that have EYE(singular-hence it refers to  vision) alone are learned(wise);The ignorant have only two sores in their visage.We may refer to what Sage avvaiyar had said:ஒன்றாக
காண்பதுவேகாட்சி  புலன் ஐந்தும் வென்றானது வீரமே வீரம்-Vision is that which sees unity and the courage of one who has conquered the five senses alone is courage.

In couplet 400,Tiruvalluvar says:
கேடில் விழுச்செல்வம் கல்வி யொருவற்கு
மாடல்ல மற்றை யவை
.

A man?s learning is an imperishable and precious wealth. No other possession is as golden.
Just like Gold remains as Gold and remains blemishless  and ever valuable,so is learning.மாடு means Gold.

It is clear that the Learning that Tiruvalluvar refers to is Self Knowledge.Having Learnt this Self Knowledge without an iota of doubt we should simply stand as That.
It is the standing as That that confirms that this learning is blemishless-Just talking about it does not mean anything.


Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on January 25, 2015, 08:17:42 AM
Friends,
I warmly recommend Tirukkural by B S Acharya published by Narmada Pathippagam and costs Rs 100/-.It is quite a handy book(physically)and also has alphabetic index of verses  -so that we can quickly find the couplet that we have in mind.Ofcourse the translation is in plain tamizh and this we need to take it for what it is.We need to delve deeply into the verese and look for keys in the other verses to unlock the deep wisdom that it has to offer.The Deeper and earnest our study,the more we will learn and benefit.

தொட்டனைத் தூறும் மணற்கேணி மாந்தர்க்குக்
கற்றனைத் தூறும் அறிவு.



Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on January 25, 2015, 11:33:19 AM
Krishna(ksksat),

You have asked:

Quote
And one must take pre-caution to stop with arathu paal.   portul paal and kaamathu paal not good for sadhaks, especially kaamathu paal.

Quote
I always study only Arathu paal.  what is your suggestion?  Kaamathu paal is not good for sadhaks ?

vaiyathul vaazhvaangu vaazhbhavan vaanuraiyum deivathul vaikka padum

thondrir pugazhodu thondruga adhilaar thondralin thondraamai nandru

Tiruvalluvar is a great sage and was a householder and the valluvar Vasuki relationship is one that is always given as an example of how a model couple should conduct themselves.
One may safely go to even a harem in Tiruvalluvar's company with the supreme confidence that it will benefit one.

With that bit of an introduction,I will just say that all that you have asked are related in one way or other-and if we deeply understand life and living we will find everything falling into place.

The Basic principle is this-Expansion is life and contraction is death.All experiences that expand our consciousness are steps that help us to root out the limited confines of egoistic living and attain freedom.The Dharma Artha(Porutpal) kama and Moksha gradation is based on this principle.He who lives life as it ought to be lived attains to the Highest good-

வையத்துள் வாழ்வாங்கு வாழ்பவன் வான்உறையும்
தெய்வத்துள் வைக்கப் படும்.


He who lives in this world as life ought to be lived
Shall abide as consciousness that permeates space.

Tiruvalluvar is giving a wonderful clue here that all that is required is not some 'super human' sadhana or 'special trick' to achieve liberation.All that is required is to live life as it Ought to be Lived.This in itself is enough!

The Great Sage says that All life is Yoga-There is nothing like so called separate Sadhana that sets it apart from temporal living.Man has to live in this world-He uses the phrase -வையத்துள் வாழ்வாங்கு வாழ்பவன்-He has to live like a man and live rightly.
He does not define this-He leaves it to the seeker to ponder;Elsewhere he says:

ஈதல் இசைபட வாழ்தல் அதுவல்லது
ஊதியம் இல்லை உயிர்க்கு.                                          verse 231

To Give (oneself) and to live harmoniously-Other than this
There is no expansion for the soul.

-To Give and Live Harmoniously are the very food for the soul and if one does this,such a one shall abide as consciousness forever.
He uses the word வைக்கப் படும் and not வைக்கப்படுவர்-The plurality of souls is only apparently so,what exists is one consciousness ,undivided,pure and simple.

He adds:
தோன்றின் புகழொடு தோன்றுக அஃதிலார்
தோன்றலின் தோன்றாமை நன்று
                couplet 236

If you must be born, be born for glory.
Those born without it would be better off without birth.

It is clear that Life has to be Lived purposefully and the 'Glory' referred to is not public fame-Publicity is here today and gone tomorrow.Glory is that which lasts-The Glory of The Buddha,Jesus christ,Prophet Mohammed,Yajnyavalkya & Maitreyi,avvaiyar,Tiruvalluvar,Sri Ramakrishna & sarada Devi.Sri Bhagavan-We can immediately sense what Tiruvalluvar means.
It makes us think of their parents who have yielded such glorious sons and daughters for the good of this world.These parents have also lived such lives of glory and only then they can yield such offspring.
Now these Glorious ones apart from the exception of Jesus ,the Christ are born of Sex only.This means Sex is something that can serve a noble purpose and it is incumbent on every one born of sex to understand its sacred precincts as well.It is only when one understands anything one can master it and learn to deploy it as and when necessary.
It is clear that Tiruvalluvar has dealt with the whole of Life and life cannot be compartmentalized -Each one has to see where he or she is and take what is appropriate with the objective of 'Expansion' and not stagnation.It is stagnation when we do not flow with life and are caught in 'Dos' and 'Donts'.It is stagnation when we endlessly go on repeating the same experiences day in and day out-eating,labouring to earn income ,snatching some pleasure amidst a dreary Living,Sleeping-again endlessly repeating until the day we exit this world.

Tirukkural gives a whole lot of insights to understand the basic Principles of Living,and living it fully and without compromises.

continued....
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: atmavichar100 on January 25, 2015, 06:11:20 PM
Quote
Anil,
Yes,I understand that and the great Sage is indeed pointing to the attainment of the state of sahaja only.Only he is emphasizing on proceeding from wherever one is and in consonance with one's nature.He hence wisely refrains from defining how life ought to be lived and is just giving useful hints and clues here and there-and thus prodding the earnest learner to do this homework at his own pace and with his own syllabus!
Tiruvalluvar is hailed as poiyyaa mozhi pulavar-The Sage whose words can never be falsified.His setting forth of the couplets is such that they are free from any reference to any particular country,Religion,Sex,community,Times,etc.Truly universal.

The above piece if  Sri Ravi's response to Sri Anil in Anil's Thread . The sentance highlighted in Bold needs to be reflected upon . The Majority of the people today expect spoon feeding to all the problems that they encounter ( in the secular matters as well as spiritual matters ) and expect all the solutions to be given in detail and on a platter without the need for the individual to do his /her basic homework . The fault lies in the way Education is being taught in schools and Univerties which are only Uni dimensional and superficial and training an individual just to get a degree that enables him to get a job . Today one can see many so called Highly Educated people syffering from depression especially in Urban India .  Tamil has a beautiful word for education and it is called "Kalvi ( educated in a holistic sense ) " , what one learns in University is called "Padippu ( i,e qualified in a subject )" .We confuse Padippu with Kalvi and that is where the whole problem lies .
Saint Thiruvalluvar has many Kurals related to Kalvi and when he talks of Kalvi he means in a holistic sense and not a narrow view of being qualified in a particular subject .
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on January 26, 2015, 05:15:14 AM
Tirukkural and Kamaththu pal continued....

Is Sex a taboo for a spiritual aspirant?It all depends on where he is and his station in Life.Except for the select few,a vast majority of spiritual aspirants(Plain folks anyway do not have any problem entering into matrimony) do have to pass through matrimony in order to harness this marvelous energy.Only a rare few of aspirants can bypass this and hope to graduate directly.
Sex in animals is based on the pleasure principle and the evolutionary pressure in Nature is at work to ensure propagation of species and preventing their extinction.Birds and animals come together at select times called the mating season and after giving birth to offspring (and bring them up),they are free from the urge and carry on with their other activities without seeking to perpetuate the pleasure principle through repeated sexual intercourse.
How about homo sapiens? There is a huge variety out there.A vast majority are purely driven by the physical urge and pleasure and go on repeating it with diminishing returns!
Is there any way to handle this differently?
Here is a couplet which is not placed in kamaththu pal but is patently and latently that only:

புணர்ச்சி பழகுதல் வேண்டா உணர்ச்சிதான்
நட்பாங் கிழமை தரும்.
                               verse 785

Sex act is not needed,it is the Feeling that leads to Ripe friendship.(We will see the inner essence of this a little later)

We may take another couplet where Tiruvalluvar defines the nature of this Natpu in kamathu pal:

உடம்பொடு உயிரிடை என்னமற் றன்ன
மடந்தையொடு எம்மிடை நட்பு
                     Verse 1122

Like unto the relationship between Body and Life
so is the Friendship between my lady and me.

continued....
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on January 26, 2015, 06:51:17 PM
Tirukkural and kamathu pal continued...

In verse 338 Tiruvalluvar defines the relationship between Body and soul-This is the key to our understanding the verses in my previous post:

குடம்பை தனித்து ஒழியப் புள்பறந் தற்றே
உடம்பொடு உயிரிடை நட்பு.
                   Verse 338

Like a Fledgeling that forsakes its broken shell and flies away
such is the relationship of the soul with the Body.

The Body is assumed by the soul(jiva) with the express purpose of working out the karmic imprints that has weighed it down -and if rightly worked out it regains its innate freedom.The Body is then no longer needed.Just like the bird that flies away never enters the shell again.

In the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,the Master explains thus:

MASTER: "Hello! You are here? You will get results very soon. If you practise a little,then someone will come forward to help you."
M. looked up at the Master, startled; he remained sitting on the floor.
MASTER: "The time is ripe for you. The mother bird does not break the shell of the egg until the right time arrives. What I told you is indeed your Ideal."
Sri Ramakrishna again mentioned to M. his spiritual Ideal.

Again the Master says:
you see, the mother bird doesn't break the shell until the chick inside the egg is matured. The egg is hatched in the fullness of time. It is necessary to practise some spiritual discipline.

With this as key,we may understand what Tiruvalluvar means in the verse 1122:

உடம்பொடு உயிரிடை என்னமற் றன்ன
மடந்தையொடு எம்மிடை நட்பு     
                                             Verse 1122

This is often romanticized as if the relationship between husband and wife is something inseparable like soul and Body.In one sense it is but it should be understood in the deepest sense-that the Husband and wife come together for a common purpose of working out the imprints and through spiritual synergy attain Freedom-Like Yajnyavalkya and Maitreyi or Vasuki and Valluvar.

In the rare case of Great souls who are not born out of any karmic baggage and hence do not have any imprints to be worked out,the nature of Husband and wife is elevated and they become spiritual soul mates who collaborate for the good of the world-Classic example is Sri sarada Devi and Sri Ramakrishna.When his parents were at a loss to find a Bride for him,the master asked them to go to jayarambati and seek the hand of child sarada who was a mere girl of five!The Rest is history.In them we find the perfect example of the other couplet:

புணர்ச்சி பழகுதல் வேண்டா உணர்ச்சிதான்
நட்பாங் கிழமை தரும்.
                               verse 785

For all those other jivas who have to work out the karmic imprint-Sex urge being one of the Basic imprint which is so deep rooted-these have to either learn to remain Detached and master this urge or else enter into matrimony and tackle this in a gradual way.This has a definitive way and approach by which the urge can be sublimated,by shifting it from the realm of gross indulgence to the plane of subtle elevation and controlled inward direction.


continued....
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on January 27, 2015, 06:38:33 AM
Tirukkural and Kamathu pal continued....

From the direction pointed out in the previous posts,it is clear that the very institution of marriage has a much deeper significance than to just satisfy the pleasure principle.It has this deeper purpose of spiritual partnership wherein the partners collaborate to workout the Karmic imprints and ascend the spiritual ladder. This forms the basis for marital fidelity and chastity of the partners-what in tamizh is popularly called ஒருவனுக்கு ஒருத்தி.
If it were only pleasure principle that needs to be satisfied,then no fidelity is called for-it is better met by one night stands or living together arrangements!This clearly would only add to the Karmic imprints and multiply them:

இலர்பல ராகிய காரணம் நோற்பார்
சிலர்
பலர் நோலா தவர்.
                        verse 270

The reason that the have nots have multiplied is-
Those who perform penance are few,many are those that do not.

This is the reason why marriages are performed with the consent of elders and the Blessings garnered by the chanting of Vedic Mantras and best  wishes of all relatives,friends and above all the Blessings of the Guru or God.With this sort of a head start,the couple are required to begin their journey on an auspicious note.

Without this understanding of the purpose of coming together,if the relationship is only based on selfishness and self gratification ,it will only multiply the karmic baggage and not just that it will also pass on the heavy burden to the offspring,who in turn have to work it out.

continued....
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on January 27, 2015, 06:53:13 AM
Friends,
Before I continue the theme of Tirukkural and kamathu pal further,I wish to draw your attention as to what TGN mentioned as the right approach towards learning Tirukkural-to free it from the Regimentation of Chapterization.We can see how the different principles of Living are brought out in the verses and the weaver sage has woven everything together in bringing out the fabric of
Life .
As part of our study we must not only learn the individual verses in the so called different sections/chapters  but also learn to relate them.
Namaskar
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: ksksat27 on January 27, 2015, 07:03:00 PM
Dear Ravi sir,

Tiruvalluvar is giving a wonderful clue here that all that is required is not some 'super human' sadhana or 'special trick' to achieve liberation.All that is required is to live life as it Ought to be Lived.This in itself is enough!
From the direction pointed out in the previous posts,it is clear that the very institution of marriage has a much deeper significance than to just satisfy the pleasure principle.It has this deeper purpose of spiritual partnership wherein the partners collaborate to workout the Karmic imprints and ascend the spiritual ladder


thanks for taking this up and elaborating. obviously people like you , who have lived through the experiences of a gruhastha dharma can only speak about this much less spoken topic in proper way.

but i think the current world lacks this maturity to do the spiritual parternship -- forget about that, even material partnership in some cases.

I feel it is very difficult to do this thing as a duty probably even abstaining from this is better.

under the disguise of duty-offspring--sacred etc.   the mind of lowly jump into this pleasure principle only.  actually it is only indulgence that is behind this whole 'xxx' stuff for 99%.   0.5% restrain and 0.5% does as duty.

anyhow there is no shortcut--  the ojas and tejas go hand in hand with one who sincerely enquires. for all others, they have to practice vairagya whenver possible to their best possible extent.  Grace may choose to bestow the mind control and full abstinence.

The story of Nagushan -- Agasthiar is very famous in this regard.

But I feel, controlling forcefully is still better than indulgence -- falling frequently, one day Grace may lift up taking pity.

Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on January 29, 2015, 10:51:48 PM
ksksat/Friends,
I have to take a break here as I have some pressing work to attend to.We will continue the topic as soon as possible.We will also  explore other wonderful verses in Tirukkural.
Namaskar
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: ksksat27 on January 31, 2015, 08:49:26 PM
ok sure sir. please correlate with verses from other chapters like arathu paal, porul paal.
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: ramanaduli on February 05, 2015, 05:42:26 AM
Dear sir,

Reply No. 12....... Here the discussion is about KALVI.  I understand, Vallivar does not mean learning other subjucts is not KALVI. Because after learning, or studying KALVI  if you do not worship VALARIVAN (IRIVAN) what is the use. So I think the kalvi which leads us the real KALVI not other subjects. Other subjects like physics, chemistry can help to live in this world.

கற்றதனால் ஆய பயனென்கொல் வாலறிவன்
நற்றாள் தொழாஅர் எனின்.

For valarivan  there are many meanings but my teacher told it is Almighty.

ramanduli

Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on February 05, 2015, 06:41:43 AM
Ramanaduli,

கற்றதனால் ஆய பயனென்கொல் வாலறிவன்
நற்றாள் தொழாஅர் எனின்.

வாலறிவன் =வால் (Pure)+அறிவன்(embodiment of Consciousness)

வாலறிவன் refers to Sat Bodha Sadguru.

God,Guru,Grace are synonymous-and we  find  Tiruvalluvar emphasizing this.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: atmavichar100 on February 05, 2015, 09:28:44 AM
Dear Friends

Bhagavan Ramana had used  some of the Thirukurals while giving advice to his close devotees  . Those who are aware of them kindly share the respective Thirukurals and also the context in which Bhagavan Ramana used them .

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on February 06, 2015, 07:37:54 AM
நிலையில் திரியாது அடங்கியான் தோற்றம்
மலையினும் மாணப் பெரிது.                                Verse 124

One who abides in the Self without(his mind) roaming -His appearance
is more majestic than a Mountain.

Once Sri Annamalai Swami came across a photograph of Sri Bhagavan sitting on a rock and with the Arunachala Hill as a backdrop.The above Kural occured to him and he requested Sri Bhagavan to copy the Kural on a small piece of paper.Sri Bhagavan wrote this kural in his own hand and Sri annamalai Swami pasted it on top of the photograph and framed it.This photograph was in Swami's room.I must be having a copy of it and will request our friend nagaraj to post it here as and when I find it.

The other wonderful verse from Tirukkural is:
அடக்கம் அமரருள் உய்க்கும் அடங்காமை
ஆரிருள் உய்த்து விடும்                             verse 121

Master TGN gives a wonderful insight into the word  அமரருள் .This is usually interpreted as among the 'immortals',as அமரர்+உள்.
TGN gave this wonderful insight in splitting it as அமர்+அருள் meaning Abiding Grace.

Control of Mind elevates one to abiding Grace
Lack of it lands him in Dense darkness.

the Opposite of அருள் is இருள்.

Every Sadhaka will testify to these verses of poiyya mozhi pulavar.
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Nagaraj on February 06, 2015, 10:37:50 AM
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/c0c3/sqvfbuiu62dm6oczg.jpg)

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on February 06, 2015, 12:58:30 PM
Nagaraj/Friends,
Thanks very much.
Here is an excerpt from a mail from sri sundaram,personal attendant of Sri Annamalai swami regarding this photograph :

The divine incident connected with this great photo is explained below.

When Annamalali swamiji?s living room in Pelakothu which was started by Bhagavan was completed in 1942, on the first day of entering in this room for living and meditating, Sri Annamalai swamiji decided to place a graceful photo of Sri Bhagavan in that room for worship.

He got the face photo of Sri Bhagavan with Arunachala hill on top of Sri Bhagavan?s  head  and then he got one small photo of Arunachala hill and then he pasted the hill exactly at the heart of Sri Bhagavan and then he gave this photo to Sri Bhagavan for getting his blessings.

Sri Swamiji gave a title to  Sri Bhagavan?s photo as the great lord who swallowed the hill (Arunachala).

Sri Bhagavan looked at this photo and then commented to Swamiji, ?if you had given this Arunachala hill photo to me, I must have pasted it better?.

Then Sri Bhagavan wrote a 2 lined Thirukkural ( a verse which was written by one ancient saint called Thiruvallluvar) by his own handwriting on a piece of paper and he himself pasted this 2 lined verse on top of this photo with his blessings.

Then Sri Bhagavan gave this photo to Annamalai swamiji with all his blessings for placing in  his new room in Pelakothu for daily meditation.

The meaning of the 2 lined Thirukural written by Sri Bhagavan on top of this photo:

"The glory of a Brahma gnani who is firmly established in the Self without any wavering is higher than a great mountain."

 
Also, Sri Bhagavan further said to him.

You said that I am the great lord who swallowed the hill. Previously also several years before, one great saivite saint called Appar wrote in one of his verses that out of his love and devotion for Arunachala, he swallowed Arunachala who is his lord.

 Also, Sri Bhagavan showed this Tamil verse of saint Appar which was published in a magazine to Annamalai swamy.

Then Swamiji copied this four line verse of Appar on a paper and framed this verse and placed it under the photo of Sri Bhagavan in his room.


Namaskar.
Title: Re: Thirukural Thread
Post by: Ravi.N on March 08, 2015, 07:39:20 AM
Friends,
Sharing this mail received today from a friend on how Tiruvalluvar is hailed by Albert Schweitzer,Lev Tolstoy and George Bernard Shaw,G U Pope,etc.

"தமிழன் திருக்குலத்தில்
தமிழ்த்தாய் திருவயிற்றில்
தமிழ்த்திரு வள்ளுவனார் - கிளியே
தமிழாய்ப் பிறந்தாரடி!"                         

என்பது திருவள்ளுவர் கிளிக்கண்ணி. எனினும் திருவள்ளுவர் படைத்த நுாலில் ';தமிழ்';, ';தமிழர்'; என்னும் சொற்களோ, அவற்றைப் பற்றிய குறிப்புக்களோ இடம்பெறவில்லை. பல நுாற்றாண்டுகளுக்கு முன் வாழ்ந்த கவிஞர், ஜாதி, மதம், நிறம், மொழி, இனம் முதலான குறுகிய எண்ணங்களுக்கு இடம் தராமல், எவ்வகைச் சார்பையும் கடந்து, எல்லோருக்கும் பொதுவான ஒரு நுாலைப் படைத்துத் தந்திருப்பது பெரிய வியப்பு. இதனாலேயே, திருக்குறள் ';உலகப் பொதுமறை'; எனச் சிறப்பிக்கப்படுகிறது.


ஆல்பர்ட் சுவைட்சரின் புகழாரம்
ஆல்பர்ட் சுவைட்சர் மருத்துவம், தத்துவம், இசை என்னும் துறைகளில் முத்திரை பதித்த ஜெர்மன் அறிஞர். கார்ல் கிரவுல் என்பவரின் திருக்குறள் ஜெர்மானிய மொழிபெயர்ப்பினைப் படித்தவர் அவர். ';இந்தியச் சிந்தனையும் அதன் வளர்ச்சியும்'; என்னும் தம் புகழ் பெற்ற நுாலில் அவர் 33 குறட்பாக்களை மேற்கோள் காட்டி இருப்பது குறிப்பிடத்தக்கது.

திருவள்ளுவரின் சிந்தனைகளை இந்தியச் சிந்தனைகளுடன் ஒப்பிட்டு - குறிப்பாக, வேதம், சமணம், பவுத்தம், மனுநீதி, பகவத் கீதை போன்றவற்றுடன் ஒப்பிட்டு - ஆல்பர்ட் சுவைட்சர் எழுதி இருக்கும் கருத்துக்கள் சிறப்பானவை. "வாழ்வுக்கு உரிய அன்பு நெறியைக் கூறும் உயர்ந்த நுால். உயர்ந்த ஞானத்தைப் புகட்டும் செம்மொழிகளின் தொகுப்பு.இது போல் உலக இலக்கியத்தில் வேறு எங்கும் இல்லை" எனத் திருக்குறளை உளமாரப் போற்றும் சுவைட்சர், "திருக்குறள் ஒப்புயர்வற்ற நுால்" என அறுதியிட்டு உரைக்கின்றார். திருவள்ளுவரிடம் ஆல்பர்ட் சுவைட்சர் காணும் சிறப்பு - உலக இலக்கியத்தில் வேறு எந்த அறநுாலிலும், தத்துவ இயலிலும் காணப்படாத தனிப்பெருஞ் சிறப்பு - அவரது உடன்பாட்டுக் கொள்கை ஆகும்; உலகு, வாழ்வு பற்றிய எதிர்மறைச் சிந்தனையை - வள்ளுவரிடம் மருந்துக்கும் கூடக் காண முடியாது.

ஆல்பர்ட் சுவைட்சரின் உள்ளத்தினைக் கவர்ந்த சில குறட்பாக்கள்..."தெய்வத்தான் ஆகாது எனினும் முயற்சிதன்மெய்வருத்தக் கூலி தரும்"(ஊழின் காரணத்தால் ஒரு செயல் முடியாமல் போகுமாயினும், முயற்சி தன் உடம்பு வருந்திய வருத்தத்தின் கூலியையாவது கொடுக்கும்.)

"அன்புஇலார் எல்லாம் தமக்குரியர் அன்புடையார்என்பும் உரியர் பிறர்க்கு."(அன்பு இல்லாதவர் எல்லாப் பொருளையும் தமக்கே உரிமையாகக் கொண்டு வாழ்வர்; அன்பு உடையவர் தம் உடம்பையும் பிறர்க்கு உரிமையாக்கி வாழ்வர்.)


டால்ஸ்டாயின் உள்ளம் கவர்ந்த குறள்
சிந்தனை மேதை டால்ஸ்டாயின் உள்ளத்தைப் பெரிதும் கவர்ந்த நுாலாகத் திருக்குறள் திகழ்ந்தது. டால்ஸ்டாய் ';இந்து ஒருவருக்கு'; என்னும் தலைப்பில் எழுதிய கடிதத்தில் திருக்குறள் காட்டும் வாழ்க்கை நெறியைச் சுட்டிக்காட்டியுள்ளார்- 'இன்னா செய்யாமை'  அதிகாரத்தில் இடம்பெற்றுள்ள ஆறு குறட்பாக்களை மேற்கோள் காட்டி, தம்முடைய உள்ளத்தைக் கவர்ந்தனவாகக் குறிப்பிட்டுள்ளார்.

ஒருவன் தனக்குத் தீங்கு செய்தவர்களைத் தண்டிப்பதற்கு உரிய சிறந்த வழி, தீங்கு செய்தவர்களே வெட்கப்படுமாறு அவர்களுக்கு நன்மை தரும் செயல்களைச் செய்து, அவர்கள் செய்த தீங்கினையும், தான் செய்த நன்மையினையும் மறந்து விடுவதே ஆகும் என்ற கருத்தினைப் புலப்படுத்தும் வகையில் அமைந்த குறட்பா வருமாறு:
" இன்னாசெய் தாரை ஒறுத்தல் அவர்நாண நன்னயம் செய்து விடல்."
இக்குறட்பா உளவியல் நுட்பம் வாய்ந்ததாக டால்ஸ்டாய் குறிப்பிட்டுள்ளார்.

பெர்னார்ட் ஷாவின் மேற்கோள்
ஜார்ஜ் பெர்னார்ட் ஷா உலகப் புகழ் பெற்ற ஆங்கில நாடக ஆசிரியர்; 94 ஆண்டுக் காலம் வாழ்ந்தவர். அவர் 'காய்கறி உணவு முறையே சிறந்தது' என்னும் கொள்கையினை கடைப்பிடித்து வந்தவர்.

"கொல்லான் புலாலை மறுத்தானைக் கைகூப்பிஎல்லா உயிரும் தொழும்" என்னும் குறட்பாவின் கருத்தினை அவர் அடிக்கடி எடுத்துரைப்பதுண்டு.1948-ல் ';டைம்ஸ் ஆப் லண்டன்' என்னும் பத்திரிகை ஒரு கருத்துப் படத்தினை வெளியிட்டது. அதில் பெர்னார்ட் ஷா ஒரு நாற்காலியில் அமர்ந்து இருப்பார். அவருடைய காலடியில் ஆடு, மாடு, மான், பன்றி, புறா போன்ற விலங்குகளும் பறவைகளும் நன்றி உணர்வோடு அவரைப் பார்த்த வண்ணம் படுத்துக் கொண்டும் நின்று கொண்டும் இருக்கும். அவரைச் சுற்றிலும் சிங்கம், புலி, கரடி போன்ற கொடிய விலங்குகள் அமைதியாக நின்று கொண்டு அவரை ஆர்வத்தோடு நோக்கிய வண்ணம் இருக்கும். இந்தக் கருத்துப் படம் வள்ளுவருடைய 'கொல்லான் புலாலை மறுத்தானை'; என்னும் குறட்பாவின் கருத்தினைப் புலப்படுத்துவதற்காக வரையப்பட்டது.

பொருள் பொதிந்த இந்தக் கருத்துப் படத்தினை டில்லியில் இருந்து வெளிவரும் 'ஷங்கர்ஸ் வீக்லி' 1949-ல் அப்படியே வெளியிட்டு, படத்தின் கீழே மேலே காட்டிய திருக்குறளைக் குறிப்பிட்டிருந்தது. ';புலால் உணவு உண்பதையே தம் வாழ்க்கைப் போக்காகக் கொண்டுள்ள மேற்கத்திய மக்கள் இடையே புலால் உண்ணாமையே சிறந்த வாழ்க்கை நெறி என்பதனை உணர்த்துவதற்காகப் பெர்னார்ட் ஷா இந்தத் திருக்குறளை மேற்கோள் காட்டி விளக்கி வந்தார்' என்பதனை உணர்த்தவே இந்தக் கருத்துப் படம் வெளியானது.


ஜி.யூ.போப்பின் பாராட்டு
1886-ல் திருக்குறளை ஆங்கிலத்தில் முழுமையாக மொழிபெயர்த்து வெளியிட்டவர் ஜி.யூ.போப். அந்நுாலில் அவர் திருவள்ளுவரைப் போற்றிப் பாடியுள்ள ஆங்கிலக் கவிதை குறிப்பிடத்தக்கது. அதில், "உலகில் உள்ள பொருள்கள் எல்லாம் மாறுகின்றன ஒருநாள் மறைகின்றன. ஆனால், திருவள்ளுவருடைய புகழ் மங்கவில்லை; பெருகிக் கொண்டே போகின்றது" என திருவள்ளுவரைப் பாராட்டியுள்ளார்.

இப்படி திருக்குறளைப் பற்றி உலக அறிஞர்கள் போற்றிக் கூறியுள்ள கருத்துக்களை காணுகின்ற பொழுது,"வள்ளுவன் தன்னை உலகினுக்கே தந்து வான்புகழ் கொண்ட தமிழ்நாடு" என்று பாரதியார் பாடியிருப்பது உண்மை, வெறும் புகழ்ச்சி இல்லை என்பது உறுதியாகிறது.

(நன்றி - தினமலர்)