The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => General topics => Topic started by: silentgreen on March 11, 2013, 09:54:17 AM

Title: The nature of Jnana
Post by: silentgreen on March 11, 2013, 09:54:17 AM
These questions have been carried over from another thread which has become congested.

I request  forum members to give clear-cut and concise answers to these questions.
1. Exactly what type of understanding prevents a jnani from becoming a robber?

2. What is that freedom inspite of having which and becoming fearless a jnani does not rob?

3. What is the nature of that detachment which prevents a jnani from robbing?

4. What is the relationship between vyavaharika and paramarthika? Does paramarthika understanding gets reflected in vyavaharika life or are the two completely detached?

A jnani is anyway always detached and sees everything as a dream.

The questions may appear simple but it contains the essence of misunderstanding about jnana.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on March 11, 2013, 10:12:27 AM
My answer to all question is same. We operate on 3 levels of truth - Vyavaharika, Paramarthika and Prathibasika. Jnanis operate on only one level of truth - Paramarthika. So the karma emanating from other levels just dont exists for them - in this case robbery. There is none to rob.

-Sanjay
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Nagaraj on March 11, 2013, 10:25:34 AM
Seeking answers is samsara, surrendering all the questions is wisdom. Remaining calm and quiet in uncertainty as it is, is peaceful.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: silentgreen on March 11, 2013, 10:34:38 AM
In which level does eating, drinking, writing to forums and doing job happens for a jnani?
In the same level why can't robbing happen? Or can it also happen?
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: silentgreen on March 11, 2013, 11:20:45 AM
Thanks Tushinam,

I appreciate your precise answer without any sort of round-about movement.

When a jnani sees everything as a dream, who gave the rule book of dharma and adharma to a jnani? And what is the guarantee that the rule book is universal and not subjective.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: silentgreen on March 11, 2013, 12:28:31 PM
What is the impurity which impels one to steal (only for basic livelihood), which the jnani does not have because of his pure mind?
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: silentgreen on March 11, 2013, 01:39:01 PM
Here stealing was not for getting pleasure but for basic livelihood, like one works in office for earning money.

If in the life of a jnani so many ideas can pass in the course of writing in forums and doing one's job, what is so special about this idea of stealing? It will also come and go.

Why is this idea considered as an impurity while others are not?
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on March 11, 2013, 01:43:08 PM
Why stealing? Lord Krishna says even kill your relatives and guru :). Of course, stealing is far lesser a crime than killing own guru and relatives.

:)
Sanjay.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Ravi.N on March 11, 2013, 02:13:18 PM
Friends,
Yesterday was shivaratri and some would have chanted Sri Rudra-particularly these lines-Third anuvaka,verses 2 and 3:
Quote
nama kakubAya nishanginE sthenAnAm pathayE NamO-Salutation to the leader (kakubha), the holder of the quiver, to the lord of thieves salutation!
NamO nishangina ishudimatE taskarAnAm pathayE namO-Salutation to the holder of the quiver, to the owner of the quiver, to the lord of robbers salutation!

Good discussion but no real answers are fortcoming yet! :)

Namaskar.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Nagaraj on March 11, 2013, 03:04:42 PM
have not really followed these discussions much... but i felt to share one thought that occurred on the subject of stealing etc.

Even if not completely, if we realise to a certain extant, what really there really to claim as ours? absolutely nothing! Even, we cannot claim our own body as ours, it does not listens to us, it gets tired, it gets diseases etc... what belongs to us? only if something belongs to us, is there some possibility of stealing, or being stolen from. Suppose realizing that nothing really is ours, and if we steal from others with aspiration to make it ours, still it does not become ours.

We are absolutely hopelessly helpless, we got to just repose, resign!

--
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Ravi.N on March 11, 2013, 03:08:00 PM
Friends,
So,are we totally convinced that there is no Isvara,Divine will,etc? :)
Namaskar.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Nagaraj on March 11, 2013, 03:14:44 PM
So,are we totally convinced that there is no Isvara,Divine will,etc? :)

Sri Ravi,

:) I felt, we don't even have a 'will' to claim as ours as well... there is only Divine Will...

whenever the notion of 'my will' sprouts and imagines as itself operating, it results in samasara dukha or sukha.

Off late, i am coming to terms that even the false notion of 'my-will' also is His own divine leela or play.

We have no option but to accept that we are just puppets... just puppets... just puppets...

--
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Ravi.N on March 11, 2013, 03:26:27 PM
Nagaraj/Friends,
Good response Nagaraj.Here is an Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
""A man who has realized God shows certain characteristics. He becomes like a child or a madman, or an inert thing or a ghoul. Further, he is firmly convinced that he is the machine and God is its Operator, that God alone is the Doer and all others are His instrument.
"God has put you in the world. What can you do about it? Resign everything to Him.Surrender yourself at His feet. Then there will be no more confusion. Then you will realize that it is God who does everything. All depends on 'the will of Rama'."
Story of "the will of Rama"
A DEVOTEE: "What is that story about 'the will of Rama'?"
MASTER: "In a certain village there lived a weaver. He was a very pious,soul. Everyone trusted him and loved him. He used to sell his goods in the market-place. When a customer asked him the price of a piece of cloth, the weaver would say: 'By the will of Rama the
price of the yarn is one rupee and the labour four annas ; by the will of Rama the profit is two annas . The price of the cloth, by the will of Rama, is one rupee and six annas .' Such was the people's faith in the weaver that the customer would at once pay the price and take
the cloth. The weaver was a real devotee of God. After finishing his supper in the evening,he would spend long hours' in the worship hall meditating on God and chanting His name and glories. Now, late one night the weaver couldn't get to sleep. He was sitting in the
worship hall, smoking now and then, when a band of robbers happened to pass that way.They wanted a man to carry their goods and said to the weaver, 'Come with us.' So saying, they led him off by the hand. After committing a robbery in a house, they put a load of
things on the weaver's head, commanding him to carry them. Suddenly the police arrived and the robbers ran away. But the weaver, with his load, was arrested. He was kept in the lock-up for the night. Next day he was brought before the magistrate for trial. The villagers learnt what had happened and came to court. They said to the magistrate, 'Your Honour, this man could never commit a robbery.' Thereupon the magistrate asked the weaver to make his statement.
'The weaver said: 'Your Honour, by the will of Rama I finished my meal at night. Then by the will of Rama I was sitting in the worship hall. It was quite late at night by the will of Rama. By the will of Rama I had been thinking of God and chanting His name and glories,
when by the will of Rama a band of robbers passed that way. By the will of Rama they dragged me with them; by the will of Rama they committed a robbery in a house; and by the will of Rama they put a load on my head. Just then, by the will of Rama the police
arrived, and by the will of Rama I was arrested. Then by the will of Rama the police kept me in the lock-up for the night, and this morning by the will of Rama I have been brought before Your Honour.' The magistrate realized that the weaver was a pious man and ordered his release. On his way home the weaver said to his friends, 'By the will of Rama I have
been released.'

The Reason why Logical mind  struggles to give an answer is that it is yet to recognize the 'Will of Rama';it can still think in terms of the Known,in terms of the ordinary concept of Dharma and is unable to go beyond it.
We will look at the fundamental questions posed by our friend silentgreen a little further ,based on what Sri Ramakrishna has taught.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: silentgreen on March 11, 2013, 03:48:05 PM
If jnana is simply watching a set of thoughts or ideas flowing by without any attachment, where is the requirement of grouping thoughts based on dharma / adharma or himsa / ahimsa? How does such thoughts get special categories?
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Nagaraj on March 11, 2013, 03:54:42 PM
Heart warming story Sri Ravi,

It is this pinch of sugar of sweet Bhakti, or love of God, that makes Jnana an experience of bliss, of krutagnate, gratitude for being there, for being alive for being live to experience it, know it, feel it. Isn't this the most wonderful thing, after all?

Sri Silentgreen, as reflected earlier, i truly have come to significantly realise that seeking answers is the birth of samsara, because every question takes birth with an answer already with it, this is the cycle of samsara in the form of questions and answers! Every Answers gives birth to Questions and every Questions gives birth to Answers. The Master Gave a wonderful light here, by showing us the way, by asking ourselves to whom are these questions and answers are arising and reaching.

Therefore, Any answers that we may get here are only vyavaharika, as in a eating in a dream. upon waking, the hunger does not get satiated. I give some answers from intellectual level for my own satiation. But i do not really know from where these questions have sprung and their background discussions. I give an open responses .

Quote
1. Exactly what type of understanding prevents a jnani from becoming a robber?

Jnani robs 'knowing' All the objects in the world belongs to God, and not any human beings who claim things as theirs. hence He become  the greatest of robbers and yet remains free from the stain of a 'robber'.

Quote
2. What is that freedom inspite of having which and becoming fearless a jnani does not rob?

The Freedom which the Jnani 'knows' is that he absolutely has no freedom at all, and hence He is made to Rob when He makes him rob. He does not shoulder the burden.

Quote
3. What is the nature of that detachment which prevents a jnani from robbing?

The detachment is not knowing the meaning of 'robbing' Though he robs he robs not and though he not robs, yet he robs. He is carefree, after thoroughly casting off the burdens of 'me' 'my' 'i' and 'you' he' the' and realising only 'That' alone is.

Quote
4. What is the relationship between vyavaharika and paramarthika? Does paramarthika understanding gets reflected in vyavaharika life or are the two completely detached?

There is no vyavaharika or paramarthika for a Jnani. These exist only from onlookers point of view, for a jnani, vyavaharika and paramarthika are just sounds. However, we may say, Jnani answers the questions of people, and usually they are in vyavaharika - again this is only recorded by the person asking question and never the Jnani.



These are just personal thoughts, just for reflection, i do not know their validity, and hence do not take any ownership for these views to entertain any discussions and debates of rights and wrongs. Members are free to take what feels right and reject what seems wrong and proceed in their spiritual antarmukha - journeys.

Thanks for the opportunity to reflect.

:)

Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Jewell on March 11, 2013, 04:04:48 PM
Dear Sri Silentgreen,

Yes,good question. I believe that there is no gruoping thoughts for jnani. He is not led by the thoughts. Any thought,bad or noble. Thoughts are thoughts. Thats why complete silence comes,or,its all about.
And the freedom of jnani not to become robber,or to take advantage of wisdom,is freedom from ego,from personality. From robber or Saint. Both. I supose it is known when its happen. And that is,when any notion of me,mine,compulsion,doership in general is left. When there is no person who is or thinks this or that.

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: silentgreen on March 11, 2013, 04:10:43 PM
So, what is that extra (other than watching thoughts in a non-attached way) in jnana which makes thoughts like dharma / adharma and himsa / ahimsa get special significance?
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Jewell on March 11, 2013, 04:14:58 PM
Dear Sri Silentgreen,

It is the heart,Silence. Or even that is not quite true. I believe there is no special significance at all. No thought is of any value. It is the way it is. Only that,i believe.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Nagaraj on March 11, 2013, 04:20:36 PM
If jnana is simply watching a set of thoughts or ideas flowing by without any attachment, where is the requirement of grouping thoughts based on dharma / adharma or himsa / ahimsa? How does such thoughts get special categories?

For a Jnani, Thoughts flow if He wills, Movement of Thoughts can be compared with the Shakti. There is no Shakti without Shiva and there is no Shiva without Shakti.

A Jnani cannot watch thoughts as  a Jnani can never be different from the thoughts. Like Bhagavan said, Jnanis mind itself is Brahman. Shiva itself is Shakti and Shakti itself is Shiva.

Some revelations of Saint Jnaneshwar -

Sugar and its sweetness
Cannot be separated from one another,
Nor can camphor and its fragrance.

If there are flames,
There is also the fire.
If we catch hold of Shakti,
We have Shiva as well.

The Sun appears to shine because of its rays,
But it is the Sun itself, which produces the rays.
In act, that glorious Sun and its shining
Are one and the same.

To have a reflection, one must have an object;
If we see a reflection, then we infer
That an object exists.
Likewise, the supreme Reality, which is one,
Appears to be two.

Through Her,
The absolute Void becomes the manifest world;
But Her existence
Is derived from Her Lord.

Shiva Himself became His beloved;
But, without Her presence,
No universe exists.

Because of Her form,
God is seen as the world;
But He created Her form
Of Himself.

Embarrassed by Her formless Husband
And Her own graceful form,
She adorned Him with a universe
Of myriad names and forms.

In unity, there is little to behold;
So She, the mother of abundance,
Brought forth the world as a play.

She made evident the glory of Her Lord
By spreading out Her own body-form;
And He made Her famous by concealing Himself.

He takes the role of Witness
Out of love of watching Her;
But when Her appearance is withdrawn,
The role of Witness is abandoned as well.

Through Her,
He assumes the form of the universe;
Without Her,
He is left naked.

Although He is manifest,
He, Himself, cannot be seen.
It is only because of Her
That He appears as universal form.

When He is awakened by Her,
Shiva perceives the world;
Then He enjoys this dish She serves,
As well as She who serves.

While He sleeps, She gives birth
To the animate and inanimate worlds;
When She rests,
Her Husband disappears.

When He conceals Himself,
He cannot be discovered without Her grace.
They are as mirrors, each to the other.

When He embraces Her,
It is His own Bliss that Shiva enjoys.
He is the enjoyer of everything,
But there is no enjoyment without Her.

She is His form,
But Her beauty comes from Him.
By their intermingling,
They are, together, enjoying this feast.

Shiva and Shakti are the same,
Like air and its motion,
Or like gold and its luster.

Fragrance cannot be separated from musk,
Nor heat from fire;
Neither can Shakti be separated from Shiva.

Embracing each other, they merge into one,
As darkness merges into light
At the breaking of dawn.

All levels of speech, from Para to Vaikari,
Merge into silence
When their true nature is realized,
Just as the ocean and the Ganges both merge
Into the primal Waters
When the universal Deluge comes.

Likewise, while attempting
To see Shiva and Shakti,
Both the seer and his vision disappear.
Again and again, I offer salutations
To that universal pair.

.............. i have to stop from posting more... each verse is so pulling!!!! thank you..

--
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Jewell on March 11, 2013, 04:28:30 PM
I agree with Sri Nagaraj. Beautiful verse! Thank You!
There is no division in the end,and identification with any thought,in the same time. It is total functioning.
It is the way it is.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: silentgreen on March 11, 2013, 04:39:30 PM
Dear Tushinam,
What is jnana?
That is what I am asking you to provide in the context of my previous question. A direct precise answer.


Dear Jewel,
When the notion of me and mine is not there, what is still left to become sensitive to dharma / adharma and himsa / ahimsa?
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 11, 2013, 04:52:48 PM
Dear silentgreen,

1. Sri Bhagavan says that other names of Jnana is Peace, Bliss and Love. When these are there, how can a Jnani live without
loving others. (See Pancharatnam, Verse 5). So he cannot definitely rob anyone since he even loves robbers and wealthy man.

2. vyavaharika princple is that a Jivan Mukta, wakes up, dreams and sleeps also. This is the practical aspect of his life.
But really speaking, he treats the three avastas as dreams only. Because he knows the paramatika satyam, the Absolute
Truth. And this makes him free from there avastas, three gunas and three aspects of death, rebirth and and death again.
He has totally overcome all the aspects mentioned above, and he is gunatita, avasthatita and kala kala.

3. He is totally detached. All the works he does are not attaching themselves to him. Whether essential works like eating, drinking,
and attending to nature calls, bathing etc., are done as if he is in somnambulism.

Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Jewell on March 11, 2013, 05:00:14 PM
Dear Sri Silentgreen,

I believe there is no fixed classification. It is the moment insight,recognition,or not even that. There is no one to decide,it is simple functioning. It is the Heart,the Self,That.
In general,i supose,anything which is drived by any selfish reasons or motives,which violates,which is not for greater good,is bad. Althrough,individual cannot by any chance to know that. So long is there some trace of individuality left,error is bound to happen. So long is none, there is no error. But jnani is not a person anyway. Jnani is That. Thought I Am Jnani cannot be right. There is no I to be Jnani. Jnani is That. What will happen with some body is irrelevant. Looking through the eyes of Jnana,there cannot be error. Even Jnani is all wrong word. There is only Jnana,there is only That in the end.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 11, 2013, 05:05:09 PM
Dear Jewell,

Sri Bhagavan has said that Peace, Bliss and Love are other names for Jnana.


Somnambulism refers to a Jnani's action as if  he does everything as in sleep. As a somnambulist would do.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Hari on March 11, 2013, 05:12:35 PM
Jnana is realization that there is only one Reality Which nature is sat-chit-ananda and there is nothing apart from It. There is such thing like 'good' thoughts. Good thoughts are quality of the sattvic mind. Jnanis mind is sattvic. That's why a jnani cannot be robber after Atma-jnana. And why He/She should steal when He/She know that everything is His/Hers? Why to kill and how when there is nothing to be killed?
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Jewell on March 11, 2013, 05:17:52 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

Yes,true. And that explanation is also given to please our minds. It is done,all actions,by That ultimatievly,and nothing is done in essence. I think there is no fixed word for that,or explanation. It will be known only when that is riched. Or,when everything is droped. No word exept silence can explane that.
And,yes,Jnani is Bliss and Love,the Self. That is word i guess.

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Jewell on March 11, 2013, 05:23:59 PM
Dear Hari,

Yes. There are no good or bad thoughts in the end. Only thoughts. Jnani stoped to be anything,He cannot by any means become the robber,or Saint. They are diametricaly opposite.
 
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Hari on March 11, 2013, 05:30:30 PM
Jnani is the Self. He can be only the Self. He cannot be good or bad, person or animal, this or that. He is what He is. It is unexplainable. The Truth cannot be explained. That's why Lord Jesus just has said: "Know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." What kind of Truth? The Truth is the Kingdom of God. But there It is? "The Kingdom of God is within you" has said the Lord. But how to find It? "Follow my teachings". Lord Jesus has known that the Truth cannot be explained and just instructed people how they alone can find It and experience It.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Jewell on March 11, 2013, 07:44:03 PM
Dear Hari,

So true.
And anyone who can in any way violate any 'knowledge' is only the person. I believe that in 'life of Jnani everything is reflected by the Truth. In the life of sadhaka,all become, reflected with the Truth also. But reflected,given,brought about. If someone chose to act this way or that,leading himself with thinking :"It doasnt matter what i do,i am not this,i can kill someone. Whats the fuss.",that is vilation,and using of that wisdom. Althrough i believe that anyone with wisdom will never do that. It cannot be used that way. Thats why discrimination is always needed,and complete honesty and sincerity.
Like freedom from thought must exist. Detachment can also be violated in some way. Coz the thought of detachment,is also a thought. So what is left is only to let it be,and Be Still. Only that. Like Bhagavan,Same said Jesus too.

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: silentgreen on March 11, 2013, 08:01:10 PM
Dear All,

Everyone has explained Jnana nicely.
As Sri Subramanian summarized beautifully, Jnana is Peace, Bliss and Love.

Now I would like to put the highest conception of Jnana in my own way.
The Love of Jnani is all-encompassing. The pot of ego having broken, Jnani is boundless and a veritable Sangam of Shiva and Shakti.

His Paramarthika life like Shiva is the Divine Pure Consciousness, and Shakti spreads Her motherly Love through him in his Vyavaharika life. So a Jnani is both like a father and a mother. Twameva Mata ca Pita Twameva.

Being merged in Pure Consciousness, a Jnani is Brahmananda svarupa, Brahmanandam Parama Sukhadam.

The pot of ego having broken, all separations from others have dissolved.
So where is the question of stealing or killing?
There is only a thin layer of individuality kept by God for the good of others.

Jnana is God's Swarupa and Jnani is God' body. So life of a Jnani only does good to others.

The story of robber Jnani which I mentioned in another thread was a contradiction in itself; to illustrate that with many external similarities a person may appear like a Jnani, but unless his ego pot is broken and God spreads His all-encompassing Love through him, a person is not a Jnani.

With this I end my part of the discussion here.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: deepa on March 11, 2013, 08:03:41 PM

Is there a standarad that jnanis are supposed to follow? From our study of different jnanis, each of them was different.. being a brahmanishta didn't necessarily make them carbon copies of each other.

Even the most established brahmanishtas/jnanis shuttled between antamukhattvam and bahirmukhattvam. Which is why many of them were categorized as crazy and mad even. Some of them, even when in nishta, were able to play their given roles using their body and intellect.

I cannot say about being a robber, but we have examples of sadhus breaking societal rules
1. Sadashiva Brahmendra walking through the harem of Sultan
2. Dharmavyadha continuing his butcher profession
3. Even Seshadri Swamigal was supposed to walk into a open house when hungry, grab some food and walk away

In any case, I believe every jnani has already achieved the sadhana chatushtayam (with samAdhi sampatthi) - in which case, they will never violate these basic qualities even if they appear to do so in our eyes.


Note
sadhana chatushtayam -the four fold disciplines include
viveka (discrimination between permanent and impermanent),
vairagya (dispassion),
samAdhi shat sampathi - the six qualities (sama - mind control, dama - body control, uparathi - doing one's duty, titiksha - forbearance, shraddha - faith in guru/scriptures, samadanam - single-pointedness)
mumukshutvam - burning desire for liberation
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Ravi.N on March 11, 2013, 10:20:24 PM
silentgreen/Friends,
Nice post by silentgreen explaining it in his usual simple and uncomplicated fashion.
It is good to review the questions and visit the Fundamentals-The Basic question is -Who is a Jnani?Is he an individual and even after his jnAnA whether the play of the ego with its choices and preferences continue?
No analogy will be complete,yet we may consider the Ocean and the Waves as analogous to the Self and the Egos.An Ego that is identified with the wave can never realize that it is the 'Ocean' unless it ceases that identification somehow.In ceasing to identify itself with the 'Wave' it comes to realize that it is the Ocean,A Whole without any second thing.
Now comes the Key question-Having identified itself with the Ocean ,will it again identify itself with that 'particular Wave' that it originally identified with?What will be its relationship with the other waves that are part and parcel of that One Ocean?
The JnAni is one who has identified himself with the Ocean;no way he can come to identify himself with the 'Wave',even if he is aware of the waves.Where then is the question of his posing a 'risk' to the waves which are all part and parcel of himself?Where then is the need for him to follow 'Ahimsa' as a Dharma-as such Dharmas are only conducive to the survival of the 'Wave' and not the Ocean that now he is.Where is the question of paramarthika and vyavaharika for him-All are just the action of the Ocean itself,not just his 'particular' wave but the dance of the Other waves as well.All his actions are automatically the activity of the divine.He realizes that all actions are that of the divine only.

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Quote
God alone has become all this-maya, the universe, living beings, and the twenty-four cosmic principles. 'As the snake I bite, and as the charmer I cure.' It is God Himself who has become both vidya and avidya. He remains deluded by the maya of avidya, ignorance. Again, with the help of the guru, He is cured by the maya of vidya, Knowledge.
Ignorance, Knowledge, and Perfect Wisdom. The jnani sees that God alone exists and is the Doer, that He creates, preserves, and destroys. The vijnani sees that it is God who hasbecome all this."

Namaskar.
Title: Re: The nature of Jnana
Post by: Ravi.N on March 11, 2013, 10:36:01 PM
Friends,

Swami Vivekananda says:

Quote
I am the whole ocean; do not call the little wave you have made "I"

Hari maharaj,Swami Turiyananda(another disciple of Sri Ramakrishna) has this to say about Swamiji:
Quote
“Whenever Swamiji used the pronoun ‘I,’ he was identified with Brahman and used the word from the nondualistic standpoint.
“You can exercise free will in two ways, either by identifying yourself with him or by surrendering yourself. As long as you keep yourself apart from God, you
have no freedom of the will"

To say even in ordinary parlance,I have the Freedom to choose Tea or coffee -one has to assume that the supply of the same is available in the market!What sort of a choice that is when it is dependant on so many factors over which one has absolutely no control;one may at the most say that one can pick what is made available."yallabhase nijakarmopaattaM"(Be content with what comes through actions already performed in the past-Bhaja Govindam)

Namaskar