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Ramana Maharshi => General topics => Topic started by: atmavichar100 on December 16, 2012, 02:26:16 PM

Title: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: atmavichar100 on December 16, 2012, 02:26:16 PM
Friends

Sri Subramaniam Sir has opened a thread on Thiruppavai on the auspicious day of starting of Margazhi Season today i,e Sun 16 Dec 2012 and Sri Ravi is also giving the explanation of verses based on the talks of Sage TGN which he has listened to and I do not want to disturb that thread for asking any doubts / discussion of the same and hence opening a new thread for the same .
So let us share our doubts and opinion in this thread without disturbing the other thread and leave it free to Sri Ravi to share his thoughts whenever he feels comfortable doing so .

Om Peace .
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on December 16, 2012, 03:04:26 PM
Thanks to Subramanian Sir and Sri Ravi, it is indeed wonderful for ones like me to get an opportunity to derive the nectar of Tiruppaavai. Otherwise, it needs an extra effort from me who is not so well versed in tamil.

Gratitude

Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 16, 2012, 03:48:46 PM
arcsekar,
yes,pavai also refers to the pupil of the eye.Thanks very much for that wonderful interaction  between mahaperiyava and u ve Swaminatha iyer.In tiruppavai,all seekers are considered as girls only,and the Lord alone is the Male!
I recall the story of mirabai and jiva goswami. One of the most famous anecdotes from her life, relates a meeting she had in Vrindavan with Jiva Goswami, a renowned Vaishnava of the Chaitanya school. Jiva Goswami at first refused to meet with her since she was a woman, whereupon Mirabai is said to have retorted: "I used to think that the Lord Krishna was the only man in Vrindavan and that all the rest of the inhabitants were gopis. Now I’ve discovered that there’s someone else here besides Lord Krishna who thinks of himself as a man."
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 16, 2012, 03:55:19 PM
Dear Ravi,

Yes. Guru or God is the only Purusha. All jivas are women.

enaik kalanthu ippothu enai azhithidaavil idhuvo aanmai Arunachala!

Sri Bhagavan asks Arunachala: Please unite with me, and destroy my jiva bodham!

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 16, 2012, 03:58:40 PM
Subramanian/atmavichar/Nagaraj/Friends,
Thanks very much for the encouragement and for opening this thread for discussion.TGN used to emphasize that one may use his talks as clues,and not just accept it as a final ;the more one delves into these verses,the more one will find inexhaustible treasures.I hope to share his presentation and insights that are of immense value to all seekers.
The real problem here is what to present and what to leave out!Anyway,I will just give it a try.
Today Evening,I am going to TGN foundation to listen to the pl;ayback of the talks that began on 1st December and are played everyday in the evening at 19:00 hrs at TGN foundation premises.TGN gives a small preamble and postamble on every day.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 16, 2012, 04:02:32 PM
Dear Ravi,

Yes. The fact that TGN your Guru has taken 45 days to explain and you are also introducing what Sri Sudarshan had said,
it is bound to be a long serial post. It does not matter. You can write if you can abbreviate or give the entire lecture-content.
No harm.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Jewell on December 17, 2012, 03:22:55 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

Thank You for opening this thread! It is very interesting for me.
 


Dear Sri Ravi,

These are very Beautiful posts and writings! I find them very inspirative and true.

Thank You Very much for sharing them!

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on December 17, 2012, 09:43:25 AM
Friends,

What a blessing indeed, here are the links for Tiruppaavai in the voice of Nithyasri Mahadevan with Arunachala as background. How could this be better :)

Tiruppaavai 1-2-3-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5P8vVLeB9w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5P8vVLeB9w)

Tiruppaavai 5-6-7-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyeWhFkLjzE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyeWhFkLjzE)

Tiruppaavai 9-10-11-12-13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKxMpmi_AbM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKxMpmi_AbM)

Tiruppaavai 14-15-16-17-18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcqkDJD7yb4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcqkDJD7yb4)

Tiruppaavai 19-20-21-22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAI3gLdnCno&playnext=1&list=PLD39EB8CE69D81DC8&feature=results_video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAI3gLdnCno&playnext=1&list=PLD39EB8CE69D81DC8&feature=results_video)

Tiruppaavai 23-24-25-26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCpE0tKeVSA&list=PLD39EB8CE69D81DC8&index=7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCpE0tKeVSA&list=PLD39EB8CE69D81DC8&index=7)

Tiruppaavai 26-27-28-29-30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVOlDdAUlcY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVOlDdAUlcY)

Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 18, 2012, 06:29:27 AM
Jewell,
You are indeed Blessed to draw inspiration in this wonderful satsangha of our Lady Andal.I wish to share the wonderful life of this Great one who just graced this Terra firma for a mere 24 years and yet left a lasting treasure for us to live by .Andal ,as we will see in Tiruppavai verses ,had the audacity and authority to ORDER the Supreme Lord to bestow his Grace!'Don't withhold it'-she thunders!
Hopefully ,with her blessings,we will be covering the verses.
Thanks very much for your kind and encouraging words.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 18, 2012, 06:35:56 AM
Nagaraj,
Yes,Nityasree's rendering of Tiruppavai verses is a fine one.The Verses were set to various Ragas by the Late  Sri Ariyakudi Ramanuja Iyengar-and this has now become a defacto standard.All singers follow this meticulously.The Great carnatic Musician smt M L Vasanthakumari's rendering is charming as well.
For those,who wish to hear the words in the verses and at the same time would like to sing it as well,I warmly recommend the rendering of Sikkil Gurucharan & co-A group singing where the words are pronounced as they should be,without drawing long any syllable in the words to suit the music.
Namaskar
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 19, 2012, 07:15:04 AM
Friends,
TGN 's coverage is quite extensive and I am taking a fast Forward approach!We will cover the 30 verses and get a feel of the import.We may then cover anything in a Html type of approach,if need be.This should give us an ability to recite and internalize this wonderful composition.As we do this,the inner meaning and significance and True spirit will take possession of us,and this is what is important.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: atmavichar100 on December 19, 2012, 07:29:48 AM
Nagaraj,
Yes,Nityasree's rendering of Tiruppavai verses is a fine one.The Verses were set to various Ragas by the Late  Sri Ariyakudi Ramanuja Iyengar-and this has now become a defacto standard.All singers follow this meticulously.The Great carnatic Musician smt M L Vasanthakumari's rendering is charming as well.
For those,who wish to hear the words in the verses and at the same time would like to sing it as well,I warmly recommend the rendering of Sikkil Gurucharan & co-A group singing where the words are pronounced as they should be,without drawing long any syllable in the words to suit the music.
Namaskar

It seems Kanchi Paramacharya asked Ariyakudi Ramanuja Iyengar to set the tune for Tiruppavai which has become now a defacto standard .Kanchi Paramacharya was the brain behind the revival of Tiruppavai and Thiruvenpavai chanting during Margazhi season .

I am following Sulamangalam Sisters Tiruppavai and it is quite long i.e each Pasuram is sung for 2 mts with many repetition but is useful for a beginner like me to understand and proceed and it does not have too much Carnatic Music except for the basic tune .I like their clarity of Pronunciation  and for Thiruvampavai I use Dharmapuram Swaminathan who is again very clear in his pronunciation .

Om Peace
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: atmavichar100 on December 19, 2012, 07:34:35 AM
Friends,
TGN 's coverage is quite extensive and I am taking a fast Forward approach!We will cover the 30 verses and get a feel of the import.We may then cover anything in a Html type of approach,if need be.This should give us an ability to recite and internalize this wonderful composition.As we do this,the inner meaning and significance and True spirit will take possession of us,and this is what is important.
Namaskar.

Ravi

I suggest u take an approach that is comfortable for you .The meaning of these divine texts can never be assimilated in a short time as they have lot  of depth .So just give a basic outline for  each pasuram and we can slowly build up . I feel every year we will see these pasurams in a new light .So consider this as an ongoing project and not limited to just this Margazhi .

Om Peace .
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: atmavichar100 on December 19, 2012, 07:44:16 AM
Thiruppavai -full Traditional Chanting
Some may like the Traditional "Goshti" way of Chanting Thiruppvai  that is done in Temple and hence sharing it here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axd8mN9yWTo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axd8mN9yWTo)
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 19, 2012, 07:55:28 AM
Krishna(atmavichar),

"I feel every year we will see these pasurams in a new light .So consider this as an ongoing project and not limited to just this Margazhi "

Thanks very much!What you have posted is absolutely true and the way to Go.The Objective is to live every day and every moment as if it is Margazhi Forever.The idea of these 30 days of 'Nonbu' is that it becomes habitual and instinctive,and becomes our very nature and this momentum gathered herein sustains us and propels us  forever.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 19, 2012, 08:13:38 AM
Krishna(Atmavichar),
The Iyengar traditional way of chanting does not do justice to the Sangath Tamizh Majesty of these verses!This sort of style may suit Venkatesa suprabhatam -a sing song type of rendering and this simply falls flat and misses the wonderful rhyme and rhythm and majesty of of Sangath Tamizh.TGN mentions this aspect that most of the Traditional commentators of Tiruppavai were sanskrit oriented being sanskrit scholars;so much so that vedanta Desika wrote a set of verses in Sanskrit on our Lady AndaL(alias kothai-Andal calls herself as 'PattarbhirAn Kothai';PattarbhirAn is periyalwar) and called it GodA(actually Kothai in tamizh) stuthi!That is another interesting story how Vedanta desika was graced by our AndAL and came to compose 29 verses.He was prompted to write one more by his disciples to make it 30 but he declined saying that he does want to be placed along with Andal!He stopped with 29 verses.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: ramanaduli on December 19, 2012, 08:22:31 AM
Dear sir,

I wondered when Andal sang 30 verses why Manivachakar sang only 20. But one thing is clear, some saivas hardly goes to perumal temple. Theruvempavai quences the thirst by singing in shiva temple. Andal Herself is divine child or avathar otherwise how at that tender age can sing so beautifull with the depth of advaita. We are so fortunate to be born
in India especially in Tamil nadu.

Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: atmavichar100 on December 19, 2012, 08:24:30 AM
Krishna(Atmavichar),
The Iyengar traditional way of chanting does not do justice to the Sangath Tamizh Majesty of these verses!This sort of style may suit Venkatesa suprabhatam -a sing song type of rendering and this simply falls flat and misses the wonderful rhyme and rhythm and majesty of of Sangath Tamizh.TGN mentions this aspect that most of the Traditional commentators of Tiruppavai were sanskrit oriented being sanskrit scholars;so much so that vedanta Desika wrote a set of verses in Sanskrit on our Lady AndaL(alias kothai-Andal calls herself as 'PattarbhirAn Kothai';PattarbhirAn is periyalwar) and called it GodA(actually Kothai in tamizh) stuthi!That is another interesting story how Vedanta desika was graced by our AndAL and came to compose 29 verses.He was prompted to write one more by his disciples to make it 30 but he declined saying that he does want to be placed along with Andal!He stopped with 29 verses.
Namaskar.

Ravi

I do agree that Traditional way of Chanting Tamil Verses does not resonate much with the Tamil way of singing but I heard from one person that the reason why they chant this way was do "imitate the way of Vedic Chanting " and to give a feeling to those chanting these Tamil verses that these are also equal to Vedas not only in spirit but also in form and hence the "Temple Way" of Chanting is basically to make it on Par with Vedic Chanting .
In fact he referred to the Vaishnava Procession from Temples when they take God outside on the street , the first to go are these Traditioal Temple Tamil Chanting , followed by Lord Vishnu , followed by Sanskrit Vedic Chants .
The meaning is Lord Vishnu follows where Tamil is and Vedas follow where Vishnu is .

Some object to this forcible way of Chanting Tamil like Vedas but others consider it a part of Tradition and not to be tampered with modern Ragas etc .I am not competent to take position on either sides and leave it to people to take what is best for them .

Regarding Vedanta Desika,I am not aware much .I am a Smartha Brahmin and hence not in much touch with the Vaishnava Sampradaya and whatever inputs I have of the same I get it from other Vaishnava people and reading Mukkur Narasimhachariar's "Kurai Onrun Illai" series as well as watching "Vellukudi Krishnan's Talks on TV "
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 19, 2012, 12:45:23 PM
Ramanaduli/friends,
Yes ,indeed it is said that AndaL is the Divine Mother herself born to teach the way to liberation.She is truly universal and although the Bhakti framework refers to the avatars of Lord Narayana,we will see that the teachings themselves are universal;also Narayana referred to is, the supreme Being,at once personal and impersonal.
In Tiruppavai ,Andal is beckoning all spiritual aspirants without any distinction with regard to class,clan,Faith,Race.This is the spirit in which we will approach this wonderful work.Andal makes no bones about the language in which it is composed-she calls it Sangath Tamizh Malai-and this is the True Tradition that needs to be respected,if at all we have to take Tradition into account.The Aga nanooru and pura Nanooru are some of the other great works that are illustrative of the Grandeur and majesty of Sangath tamizh.
In this sense as well,Andal's Tiruppavai is not for the Brahmin Iyengars only but for all those who love Tamizh poetry as well;even those who are atheists as well!I have mentioned how Bharatidasan was an ardent devotee of Andal's sangath tamizh.In this respect as well,Tiruppavai is a unique work that has won the hearts of even atheists as well-In this respect ,it is truly universal and cuts across all divisions.The Temple Tower that is part of the Tamil Nadu state emblem is the tower of AndAL's srivilliputur Temple.
Again,herein we have a temple dedicated to a Saint,AndAl-Although ,Lord Vata patra sayana(Ala ilai Krishna in Tamizh)is the deity,the main deity is AndAl!Here people offer prayers to Andal -knowing well that if she is pleased the Lord has to simply comply!
I will share some stories regarding AndAl sometime later-Among her devotees were Kamban who wrote kamba Ramayana and King Krishna Deva Raya who wrote her life in Telungu in a work called Amukta Malyada.
Tiruppavai always brings to mind tiruvempavai of manikkavachakar ,as both these works are chanted during the Month of Margazhi.However,as we will see that Tiruppavai is not just a Devotional Hymn but an aRRU Padai-a Practical Guide that has a clear methodology as a step by step guide to spiritual living.In this way,it is quite a unique work.This sort of a view need not be viewed as an affront on TiruvempAvai nor does it detract from the beauty of Tiruvempavai.
We need to learn to approach these works in their own right and not pitch them against each other-as if one represents the Vaishnava and the other represents the saiva tradition.This sort of a narrow sectarian view has to be transcended with the clear understanding that These Great ones who composed it were truly identified with the Supreme being and it does not do them justice to confine them within the devotional framework within which they expressed this universal Truth.
TGN takes a jnAna illakiyam approach to TiruppAvai and we will see this in coming days.
Thanks very much for the interest and appreciation of this Great work.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: ramanaduli on December 20, 2012, 07:50:18 AM
Dear Ravi sir,


Thanks for giving the inner meaning of Thruppavai. So far with my little knowledge I understood the word "SANGHA THAMIZH MALAI'. as it belongs to some one of the tamil sangam. After reading your post it gives a new meaning that Andal refers that, sangam means to sat sangam. This sat sangam who sings all 30 verses.... am I right?

Every year new people comes on Podhigai doordarshan to give meaning of thruppavai. Every year we understand a new meaning. It is so rich with deep meaning.

Once again I thank you and Subramaniyan ji for posting.

Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on December 24, 2012, 09:37:51 AM
I am still yet to really sink into the expressions of Tiruppavai, though it seems simple and easy, it is quite subtle, and requires steadfast meditation on it.

Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 25, 2012, 05:35:17 AM
Nagaraj,
I have been contemplating posting the wonderful Life of AndAl.Tiruppavai will become accessible as we integrate ourselves in the satsangha that andal Organizes and hear her call.The Tamizh words used here may be a little unfamiliar but once we get past that,it is revelling in the Beauty,Humour,comraderie,Grace,Beauty,Majesty of this peerless composition.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 25, 2012, 08:09:20 AM
Ramanaduli/Friends,
Yes,Andal's Tiruppavai is a perfect Blend of Karma,Yoga,Bhakti and Jnana.

Regarding the 'Milk' and 'Udder' we may see what the Siddha of Siddha's Sri Ramakrishna says in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Nitya and Lila
"God has different forms, and He sports in different ways. He sports as Isvara, deva, man,
and the universe. In every age He descends to earth in human form, as an Incarnation, to
teach people love and devotion
. There is the instance of Chaitanya. One can taste devotion
and love of God only through His Incarnations
. Infinite are the ways of God's play, but
what I need is love and devotion. I want only the milk. The milk comes through the udder
of the cow. The Incarnation is the udder
."

Andal in verse 3 ,begins with invoking the Grace of the Vamana avatara,the Lord who apparently comes in a dimunitive form but then expands himself and with two great Giant Strides covers everything else -He covers the Bhu,Bhuva and Suvaha and asks for the third place to rest hsi feet.Mahabali offers his head(ego)and the lord places his Feet on that erasing it!Andal is invoking this Blessing.We will see this as we go on.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 26, 2012, 06:39:27 AM
Balaji,
Thanks very much Friend.I very much wished that a picture of our Lady AndAL be posted in Tiruppavai thread.I was struggling for almost an hour but could not do it yesterday night.It is a delight to find the same posted by you.
May I request you or Nagaraj to post these pictures-there is one for each pasuram in this site.If it is possible to post it directly and not attach it,it will be possible for those who are not members in this forum to view it as well.
The Pictures are available in this site:
http://radhekrishnasatsangam.com/Tiruppavai/tiruppavai_paasuram1.html (http://radhekrishnasatsangam.com/Tiruppavai/tiruppavai_paasuram1.html)
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: atmavichar100 on December 26, 2012, 12:27:24 PM
Quote
Infinite are the ways of God's play,
Subramania Bharati says this in a different way  எத்தனை கோடியின்பம் வைத்தாய் -எங்கள்
     இறைவா!    இறைவா!    இறைவா!        i.e How many billions of pleasures have you made
Oh God, Oh God, Oh God
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on December 26, 2012, 03:45:36 PM
Thanks for the opportunity Sri Ravi :) I have grabbed it :) I have posted 3 verses for now, as and when each verse is posted by you, i will follow thereafter.

Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 26, 2012, 07:30:34 PM
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for posting the pictures along with the Translation of the verses 1-3.Very neat work and extremely helpful.Yes,please do keep posting the pictures as we take up the verses.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 27, 2012, 07:17:31 AM
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

"That which is Brahman is verily Sakti. I
address That, again, as the Mother. I call It Brahman when It is inactive, and Sakti when It
creates, preserves, and destroys. It is like water, sometimes still and sometimes covered
with waves. The Incarnation of God is a part of the lila of Sakti. The purpose of the Divine
Incarnation is to teach man ecstatic love for God. The Incarnation is like the udder of the
cow, the only place milk is to be got. God incarnates Himself as man. There is a great
accumulation of divinity in an Incarnation, like the accumulation of fish in a deep hollow in
a lake."

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 28, 2012, 06:00:24 AM
subramanian,

Quote
Excellent explanation. Thank you very much.

Yes,TGN 's deep insight is indeed a real boon for the listener.If we listen to Tiruppavai verses after listening to TGN ,we appreciate each and every word in a deeper sense and at the same time without any sophistry,in a spirit of true devotion.

Namaskar. 
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 29, 2012, 07:09:43 AM
Ramanaduli/Friends,

Quote
"Here Andal is not a small girl. Instead she is a guru who teaches how a jeevathma can reach paramathma. All 30 verses are yoga sutra only"

Our Lady AndAL was in her teens when she composed this wonderful and peerless Tiruppavai that outshines all the rest of the pasurams in the nalayira Divyaprabhandam.AndAL is the avatara of the Divine Mother and is quite unique in her leading the jivas as a satguru.She was in a position to issue 'ultimatums' and 'orders' to the Lord who had to simply comply to her orders!This is why she is AndAL-one who ruled over the Lord.The Lord was eager to wear the Garland that AndAL wore as it was laden with a unique fragrance of her devotion that put the native fragrance of the flowers to flight!AndAL was perfect from Birth and confidently could proclaim to the Lord-punniyam Yaam udaiyOm-We are full of Virtue-By tagging onto her,we also enjoy that privilege!Nowhere in these 30 verses,AndAL has to 'beg' for grace.She asks for it Right royally.We will see it in the 4th verse as to how she does not hesitate to remind the Lord not to hold back this grace on any account.
TGN wonderfully points out that AndAL's guidance is palpably available to all seekers right here and now and all those who chant the tiruppavai and orient themselves in the satsangh will become aware of the Guidance and be lead to the path of bounty and prosperity.
You may refer to his invocatory verse to our Lady AndAL that I have posted.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 29, 2012, 07:26:57 AM
Ramanaduli/Friends,
What sort of a Hold our Lady AndAL has over the Lord?This is what Sri Ramakrishna says in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Quote
Prema is the rope by which you can tether God, as it were. Whenever you want to see Him
you have merely to pull the rope. Whenever you call Him, He will appear before you
.

Quote
In the beginning God becomes the magnet, and the devotee the needle. But in the end the devotee himself becomes the magnet, and God the needle; that is to say, God becomes small to His devotee.

AndAL ruled over the Lord in this fashion.By simply joining her satsangha, wholeheartedly participating in it,we enjoy this privilege.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 29, 2012, 10:33:02 AM
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for posting the picture for verse 4-Rain thy Grace like arrows from Sri Rama's bow(Sarnga).Withold it not.-This is the theme.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on December 29, 2012, 10:56:28 AM
Sri Ravi,

the 4th verse is very moving -

தாழாதே சார்ங்க முதைத்த சர மழை போல்
வாழ உலகினில் பெய்திடாய் நாங்களும்
மார்கழி நீராட மகிழ்ந்தேலோர் எம்பாவாய்


letting loose rain in shafts that resemble the arrows issuing forth
from His bow called sarnga.
Pour down so that the world may live and thrive

and so that we too may rejoice and have our holy dip
of Margazhi magnificient.Listen and ponder,our Girl!


Thanks so much.

Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Jewell on December 29, 2012, 06:59:39 PM
Dear Sri Ravi, So Beautiful and heart melting poems and words from lady Andal. Whenever i read them they deeply thouch my heart... O,there is so much Beauty and Wisdom in them. Thank You Very much for posting it,and also,for posting detailed explanation! With love and prayers,
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 30, 2012, 07:01:36 AM
Nagaraj/Jewell,
Yes,it is indeed a privilege and blessing to be part of the satsangh that our Lady AndAL has made accessible to one and all.The Beauty of this satsangh is that it annuls all differences of high and low ,beginner and advanced sadhaka,and accommodates everyone in a spirit of comraderie,Love and spirit of equality.I am only attempting to express some of the highlights of what I have heard from Master TGN,and I am sure Lady AndAL will inspire each and everyone who  chants and meditates on the verses in Right earnest.I wish to share the wonderful life of our lady who graced this terra firma for a mere 24 years!I will do so after covering the 30 verses.
Master TGN's coverage is very deep and extensive and what I am presenting here is only be a tiny fraction of that.I am sharing this in the spirit of the squirrel that wished to contribute to the building of the Bridge for Lord Sri Rama.
Thanks very much for all the encouragement.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: ramanaduli on December 30, 2012, 07:48:12 AM
Dear sirs,


Andaal requests the rain to shower so that people can live on this earth. She knows what is so important for all creature.
She must be knowing later days, there will be problem for water and states will be splitted.
But the inner meaning  I think rain is the grace (kARUNAI). as without water how people cannot live, in the same way without God's grace sadhak cannot progress.  When the grace showers, sadhak can take a dip in consiousness.


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 30, 2012, 08:14:25 AM
Ramanaduli,
Yes,you are Right.We will see how in this verse AndAL is praying to the Guru to shower his Grace.God,Guru and Grace are synonymous.In the earlier verses she has made the objective of the 'Pavai Nonbu' and indicated that it is the supreme Lord who himself is going to grant them 'PaRai'.In this verse 4,she is Introducing God who comes in the form of Guru,raining his grace on one and all.The Great ones by their very presence here are a boon to the beings in the world.They have come here for this very purpose and AndAL is 'reminding' them!'Withhold not thy Grace'.
I am just sharing this  a little ahead to respond to your post!An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Different manifestations of the Absolute
"But the Nitya and the Lila are the two aspects of the same Reality. As I have said before, it
is like the roof and the steps leading to it. The Absolute plays in many ways: as Isvara, as
the gods, as man, and as the universe. The Incarnation is the play of the Absolute as man.
Do you know how the Absolute plays as man? It is like the rushing down of water from a
big roof through a pipe; the power of Satchidananda-nay, Satchidananda Itself-descends
through the conduit of a human form as water descends through the pipe.
Only twelve
sages, Bharadvaja and the others, recognized Rama as an Incarnation of God. Not everyone
can recognize an Incarnation".

"The water from the roof flows through a spout that is shaped like a lion's head. It looks as if the lion were
bringing the water out through its mouth. But look at the source of the water! A cloud
gathers in the sky and rain falls on the roof; then the water flows through the pipe and at
last comes out through the spout."


Thanks very much.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Jewell on December 30, 2012, 05:45:10 PM
Dear Sri Ravi, Truly,it is such a happiness that we can read these Beautiful words,and enjoy this Wonderful satsang with Lady Andal. I love Her way and Her idea of Satsang,that friendly spirit. Some sweetness,charm,elegance,innosence and goodness can be felt through Her. I must say that i didnt know anything about Lady Andal,and after reading in this thread,i searched all i could find. That flood of emotions,how much Her Love and Devotion thouched me... She is remarkable Lady,a Goddess. I must thank You once more for writing all this! It is a Treasure and Blessing. And the way You gave example of the spirit of squirrel is so cute and sweet. :) O,this is much more than that! With love and prayers,
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on January 04, 2013, 08:31:40 AM
jewell,
How well you have grasped the beauty and relevance of our Lady AndAL;I am pleasantly surprised beyond words.Thanks very much for your words of encouragement.
May the Blessings of our Lady and Guru be ever with us.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on January 04, 2013, 08:36:59 AM
Subramanian,
Thanks very much for your warm and loving words.As Sri Ramakrishna says -"One hemp-smoker rejoices in the company of another hemp-smoker".
I had to go out of town for a day(31st december) and just did not feel prompted to post anything subsequently.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 04, 2013, 05:37:53 PM
ஆழி மழைக் கண்ணா ஒன்று நீ கை கரவேல்
ஆழி உள் புக்கு முகந்து கொடு ஆர்த்து ஏறி
ஊழி முதல்வன் உருவம் போல் மெய் கறுத்துப்
பாழிய் அம் தோளுடைப் பற்பனாபன் கையில்
ஆழி போல் மின்னி வலம்புரி போல் நின்று அதிர்ந்து
தாழாதே சார்ங்க முதைத்த சர மழை போல்
வாழ உலகினில் பெய்திடாய் நாங்களும்
மார்கழி நீராட மகிழ்ந்தேலோர் எம்பாவாய்

Dear Ravi and others,

I just now heard Sri Anantapadmanabachariyar's Upanyasm in Jaya Tv. There he said that AndAL uses the Tamizh's
special letter 'zha' in different forms for ten times in the above verse. He opines that 'zha' being a special letter for Tamizh,
which is Sangatamizh, she has used it times to honor it. This is one another interpretation for Sanga Tamzih.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on January 05, 2013, 07:18:54 AM
Subramanian,
Yes,the usage of words with zha is indeed unmistakeable.I have highlighted the same in Bold in my post for this very reason.AndAL was also quite familiar with the TirukkuraL of vaLLuvar.She uses the word 'mudalvan' as well in this verse 4.We may refer to TirukkuraL:
அகர முதல எழுத்தெல்லாம் ஆதி
பகவன் முதற்றே உலகு.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: ramanaduli on January 05, 2013, 08:04:15 AM
Dear sir,

It is a good oppourtunity to know more deeper meaning of Thruppavai. Once again I thank Ravi ji and Subramaniyan ji to start this thread. I think to know the meaning and retain in my mind, it may take one poem for one month.
The beauty of the words, describing the nature, a lesson for jivathmas are very impressive. AandaL as being a lady, she has got lot of motherhood in Her nature. She cares for others, She already tasted the amirth (union with the paramathma) but she felt for the ignornat souls who are still sleeping on this earth. So she is waking up like Vivekananda and Adhi Sankara. AandaL is standing one step further than Meera, Aandal wants every one should get that amrit. (UIYUM VAZHI) Each and every morning she knocks the door of neighbour and calling to worship the Lord.
It shows Her motherhood.

Ramanaduli

Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on January 14, 2013, 09:27:33 PM
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for the picture for Tiruppavai verse 5-Depicts the lord of wondrous deeds!
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on January 24, 2013, 06:42:16 AM
Friends,
I will complete the Verse 5 Post by adding to the same post over a period of time.Verse 5 is quite important and we will see how wonderfully AnDAL has structured the verses as an inevitable series-Leaving nothing to chance.She is guaranteeing that all who participate in the satsangh are assured of the Blessings and Grace of The Supreme Divine.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Jewell on January 26, 2013, 08:36:15 PM
Dear Sri Ravi,

Thank You Very much for continuing Divine Satsang with Lady Andal!
I am truly happy to be part of it.

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on February 20, 2013, 09:17:42 AM
Dear Sri Ravi,

yes, truly wonderful assurances, it resonates so well from within... Those who have a little exposure in worshiping the Supreme with rituals will truly experience the assurances as conveyed by Lady AnDAL. Thanks so much...

(http://theharekrishnamovement.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/radha-and-krishna-with-flowers.jpg)

Quote
தூயோமாய் வந்து நாம் தூமலர் தூவித் தொழுது
தூயோமாய் வந்து thooyOmai vandhu Having purified ourselves (Please see verse 2)if we approach

தூமலர் தூவித் தொழுது thoomalar thoovith thozhudhu if we sprinkle fresh flowers and worship

Flowers are symbolic of freshness and purity-Like this,our thoughts of devotion are pure and Fresh and not just  an act of Routine ritual.Our act of worship should be an expression of this Devotion.

வாயினால் பாடி மனத்தினால் சிந்திக்கப் vAyinAl pAdi manathinAl sindhikka singing with our mouths paens spontaneous,with our minds steady in contemplation

This may be either in our words or the wonderful compositions of The Great ones-The Key thing is that it should come from deep within us.This keeps the mind in Steady contemplation.

Our Lady AnDAL is giving a wonderful and simple method that is accessible to one and all-It is to harmonize our act,words and thoughts in the act of worshipping the Divine whose very Nature is Love.

போய பிழையும் புகுதருவான் நின்றனவும்  தீயினில் தூசாகும் pOya pizhaiyum pugutharuvAn ninRanavum theeyinil thoosAgum
then the sins of our past and those yet in store for us would be reduced to nothing,even as dust-specs  are annihilated in the Blazing fire

This is AnDAL's assurance to the earnest seeker.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 20, 2013, 10:15:11 AM
Dear Nagaraj,

Nice photograph of Sri Krishna and Andal (Goda Devi in Srimad Bhagavadham). Thank you.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on February 20, 2013, 07:04:18 PM
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for the wonderful illustrations.Srimad Bhagavatham is indeed a Rare Scripture;Sri Ramakrishna used to describe it as 'Fried in the Butter of Knowledge and steeped in the honey of Love'.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on February 20, 2013, 07:07:34 PM
Subramanian,
Thanks very much.I am quite happy to dwell on our Lady AnDAL's TiruppAvai.From Verse 6 onwards the theme will be 'Sleepers Awake'.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on March 23, 2013, 07:45:18 AM
Friends,
As much as I take delight in sharing and participating in the satsangha of our Lady AnDAL,I am also accutely aware of the imposing nature of this undertaking.It is easier to deal with a scripture like vivekachudamani or atmabodha than to delve into this Tiruppavai.It is so charming and accessible,yet it is unfathomable and I am sharing only what I have gathered,and this is precious little.
The Only saving Grace is that Our lady AnDAL is used to neophytes like us and as Sri Ramakrishna says:
Quote
"The grace of God falls alike on all His children, learned and illiterate―whoever longs for
Him. The father has the same love for all his children. Suppose a father has five children.
One calls him 'Baba', some 'Ba', and some 'Pa'. These last cannot pronounce the whole
word. Does the father love those who address him as 'Baba' more than those who call him
'Pa'? The father knows that these last are simply too young to say 'Baba' correctly.

Truly TiruppAvai is the essence of all upanishads-GoDa Upanishad.(GOda is the sanskrit derivative from kOthai as our Lady(nAchchiAr)is called in tamizh)

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on March 25, 2013, 06:43:22 AM
Deepa,
You wished to know whether the TiruppAvai talks by Master TGN are available as a CD;yes,they are available.Here is what I had posted elsewhere and it took some time to dig it out.

Quote
mAnikkavachakar's tiruvembAvai is indeed wonderful,as they express hymns of Peak devotion and jnAna.Yet AndAl's TiruppAvai is not just a வழிபாட்டு நூல்(Hymns) but also more imporatntly a வழிகாட்டு நூல்(Scripture)wherein AnDAL has clearly delineated the step by step method of Deliverance.This is the Reason that in the whole of Divya prabhandham(with 4000verses),it occupies a unique place and revered and accepted as such.
Master TGN with a penetrating insight brings out this aspect in his talks spread over 45 days:He has categorized and grouped the 30 verses as follows:
Verses 1-5:உய்வதற்கான மார்க்கம் (Path to Salvation)
Verses 6-15:உறங்கியது போதாதோ!(Emerge out of Slumber!)
verses 16-20:தட்டுங்கள் திறக்கப்படும் (Knock and it shall be Opened)
Verses 21-30:வேண்டியதைப் பெறலாம்(Achieve all your desires)

The 45 days Talk titles are quite descriptive and purposeful:1.AnDAl,Incarnation of Bhoodevi 2.Advent of ANDAL 3.ANDAL's Reign of Grace 4.ANDAL'S union with the supreme Being 5.calling all seekers(pOdhuminO ner izhiyeer) 6.calling all seekers continued(vaiyathu vaazhveergAL) 7.Way to liberation 8.way to liberation continued... 9.Meditation in Depth 10.Meditation in depth continued... 11.Social Capital 12.Release from Sin Imprints 13.Release from Sin Imprints continued... 14.Seed of Seeds 15.Seed of Seeds continued... 16.Why this slumber? 17.Dawn of Wisdom 18.Lord of Wondrous deeds 19.Rare receptacle(eRRa kalangaL) 20.Peacock and Rain Cloud 21.ceaseless stream of Milk 22.Give up artifice(கள்ளம் தவிர்ந்து) 23.Your own garden 24.count yourself 25.count yourself continued... 26.Knock and it shall be opened 27.charity unbounded 28.last of Doors 29.Not your nature 30.Fan and Mirror 31.Surrender to effulgence 32.Power from Eyes(Angan mA jnAlaththu arasey) 33.Lion Awakens 34.praise unto you 35.peace and happiness 36.prescribed by elders 37.Total serenity 38.Total serenity continued... 39.Total serenity continued... 40.Kinship indissoluble 41.Kinship indissoluble 42.Servitors forever 43.Servitors forever continued... 44.Servitors forever continued... 45.Happiness here and hereafter.

TGN has said that in these 30 verses ANDAL has given the approach,the method and tools ,and all that is needed for a seeker.He has wonderfully brought all these aspects and has invoked the Benign presence of ANDAL to guide the seeker through this wonderful poem that he spontaneously composed:

வளந்தரும் ஆற்றலாம் வானத்தின் நீலம்

அளப்பரிய ஆற்றலது ஆண்டாள்-களமமைத்து

ஆண்டகதை யான்சொல்ல ஆர்வமொடு தான்கேட்டோர்

ஈண்டடைவர் மெய்யாம் இனிமை.

The prowess it is that yields plenitude and prosperity

vast as the infinite blue as the sky-Such is Andal’s field of spiritual energy

and they who come to listen  to my account of her Reign of Grace

are assured of attaining to the sweetness of Unison with the Absolute

here in this world and in this very birth
 –– Sage TGN


Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on March 25, 2013, 06:48:02 AM
Deepa/Friends,

Krishna(atmavichar)had asked:
Quote
Where can I get Sage TGN's Andal Thiruppavai CD/BOOKs ? Few weeks back  You sent me a link to his site and there is his house address is given in Anna Nagar .Should I get it there or can I can it at other places in Chennai ?

Has he given a talk on Thiruvenbavai?

I intend to listen to learn and listen to both these during the Margazhi time


Here is my response:

Quote
Atmavichar,
Yes,you can buy them in that address.No,they will not be available at any other place.I need to inform you that you may find the CDs expensive.There is a valid reason why it is so.I suggest that you may visit the place one sunday and listen to the talk(Recorded)by TGN;you may also get to see him and hear his preamble.I think currently the talks on Tirukkural are on,and all are welcome.
I suggest that you listen to his talk and see if you are interested;He will speak quite fast and it may take a while to get tuned to him.This is deliberate on his part,and designed so that the mind of the listener is under pressure to listen more keenly and not go on its own errands!Once this is learned,it will be quite a purposeful sadhana.The Other thing that I need to inform you is that it will be more like a html type of a presentation,with many threads of thought and people who are used to a linear presentation may find it distracting  until they get used to it.
If you need it for listening,I will lend you my copy of AndAl's TiruppAvai.You may listen and return it to me.I lend it to others for listening.Master has permitted this,and at the same time it is expected that unauthorised copies are not made.This is purely a matter of self discipline.If you find it useful,then you may decide to buy it;then we would realize that all the money in this world is not enough to get this treasure!It is truly priceless.
Otherwise,if someone says that the set of CDs cost RS10,000 or so,one would be put off or wonder why it should be so expensive,etc.Then they will start doubting whether TGN is avaricious!He lives a simple life and is taken care of by two sisters who have dedicated themselves to this work and in his service.They are wonderful people.


The Link to TGN Foundation is:
http://www.tgnfoundation.org/ (http://www.tgnfoundation.org/)
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on March 25, 2013, 07:01:32 AM
Deepa/Friends,
We saw how MahAkavi bhArati was deeply impressed by AnDAL's Tiruppavai.Here is an interesting incident concerning his devotee -BhAratidAsan that I have posted earlier-his Devotion to TiruppAvai:

Quote
Bharatidasan's devotion to his Guru Mahakavi Bharati is something that lasted throughout his life.Bharatidasan was a wonderful person,very upright,downright honest,uncompromising in not pandering to anything selfish.Truly a noble soul despite his joining the Dravidian movement.Once it so happened that when he along with other DK enthusiasts were going along a road when he came across chellamAL bharati(wife of the Mahakavi)unexpectedly.He immediately went and greeted her and prostrated full length in that open road.When the other 'Rationalists' questioned him on this,he said-'This is my Iyer's consort'.He never used to call the Mahakavi by name and used to address him as 'Iyer'(Head,Chief).There was this other instance when AnDAL's TiruppAvai used to be played through the Loudspeakers in a nearby temple,near Bharatidasan's home,early in the morning during the month of mArgazhi.Someone lodged a police complaint that the playing is disturbing the Neighbourhood and their early morning sleep!Police approached the Temple Trusties and asked them to play it at low volume.News travelled apace that someone had lodged a complaint with the Police regarding the playback through loudspeakers of TiruppAvai.As usual rumours spread that it must be Bharatidasan ,since he belonged to the Atheist DK group and his home is in the immediate neighbourhood.This was conveyed to Bharatidasan who lost no time in organizing a public meeting that very evening.A huge crowd gathered and Bharatidasan announced that he had organized this meeting to clear the false Ground that he had lodged a police complaint.He said ,is a devotee of AndAL's sangath Tamizh maaLai of tiruppAvai and gets up early in the morning just to listen to the Broadcast and not miss it! He added 'I Go to sleep again only after listening to it'!If someone who doubts this,he may come forward....That was the end of that rumour.
TGN has narrated stories of how Bharatidasan has served the Mahakavi by running errands like fetching water for drinking,etc.Here is a poem of Bharatidasan translated by TGN who considers Bharatidasan as a Hidden(veiled) Yogi:

                 PERCEIVE  THE  ONE

 
          Should you not make a bid

                      to be rid of the multi-misery

          flowing to you from

                      your own conditioning,

          where you are acquiescing in

                      a thousand castes and creeds,

          where you are paying court

                      to schemers who are,

           fox-like in character,

                      and where you are swearing by

            cults and schisms that are

                        egging us on to fight

             like dogs amongst ourselves?

                         Real living is that

             where your mind is in equipoise

                          with the distinction between “You” and “I”

             obliterated for good

                         and there is unobstructed

             vision of the One only…

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
BHARATIDASAN (1891 - 1964) poem  rendered into English by Sage TGN


Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on March 25, 2013, 09:33:12 AM
(http://upanyasam.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Tiruppavai1.9350208_std.png)
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on March 26, 2013, 06:31:38 AM
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for that picture.It is said that our Lady AnDAL was a mere child  and not even in her teens when she wore the garland and looked up in the mirror to ascertain how it would look on the Lord.It is said that the Garland so worn by her had a Fragrance not to be found anywhere in all the worlds-and The Lord vatapatrasayana was completely captivated by it and insisted to periyAlzhwAr by appearing in his dream that he wanted only the Garland worn by kOthai.This is how she came to be called AnDAL-the one who ruled over the Lord(and all of us her devotees as well-Ravi)
Sri Ramakrishna says:"Prema is the rope by which you can tether God, as it were. Whenever you want to see Him you have merely to pull the rope. Whenever you call Him, He will appear before you."
Our Lady is premaswarupa.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 26, 2013, 10:13:49 AM
Dear Ravi,

When Andal merged with Ranganatha, Periyazhwar exclaims: ChenKaN MAl thAn koNdu ponAno !


Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on March 26, 2013, 07:46:21 PM
sri Ravi

How they have lived... If we can live just even miniscule such as them our lives will be purposefully lived. Isnt this the way life ought to be lived....

What is there in anything else. Just we cant even fathom the kind of love that cld have been shown on Aandaal by periyaazhwar.

Bhakti prasaadam jnaanam.
--
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on March 26, 2013, 08:12:02 PM
Sri Ravi,

The beauty is enhanced when we look from ordinary eyes, that is seeing Aandal and Periazhwar as ordinary souls just like any one of us. If we look at them as avatars as divine manifestation, then nothing is impossible for such beings.

The same holds good to Ramayana, Ramar charitam is beautiful as an ordinary layman, without any poetical divine decorations.

How they have lived.

Whose child was Lady Aandal, Periazhwar, what has He infused in Her! He has give away a part of His own Heart.

--
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on March 26, 2013, 10:30:54 PM
Nagaraj/Subramanian,
We will see how all the human elements are combined with the Divine aspects in perfect Harmony in TiruppAvai Satsangha-There is Comraderie,innocent fun,Mock Teasing,Gracious acceptance of fault -What is called Vaishnava Lakshanam.There is Bhakti,Yoga and Jnana in full measure and made so accessible as our Guru AnDAL is such a wonderful teacher as well.Truly this is a rare Treasure Trove.AnDAL graced Terra firma for a mere 25 Years!Although AnDAL was only found as a Baby by periyAzhwAr near the Tulasi Plant and was raised by him,the wonderful relationship between them as Father and daughter,as Guru and Disciple is truly inspirational.In TiruppAvai ,AnDAL has paid Rich tributes by referring herself as 'pattarbirAn KOthai'-Wonderful Relationship!Master TGN has brought out these aspects exquisitely in the first four Talks of his 45 Days coverage of TiruppAvai.
Our Friend Subramanian has Rightly pointed out how PeriyAzhwAR ,although a jnAni could never come to terms with the Fact that AnDAL left him to live for another 7 to 10 Years on this earth after her exit.The Excerpt that he has pointed out -'ChenKaN MAl thAn koNdu ponAno !'.I have to dig out the complete song-It begins like 'oru Magal thanai udaiyan'(I have one Daughter)-PeriyAzhwAr says-'I Have one Daughter(He does not say 'Had'!AnDAL is still living;Only that She has been whisked away by the Lotus eyed Lord!My House is now Deserted!).I will post this when I find it.
Thanks very much for giving this wonderful opportunity to dwell on the lives of AnDAL and periyAzhwAr.As Nagaraj has rightly said that the beauty lies in their accessibility,as one of us.
Namaskar.


Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on March 28, 2013, 09:26:11 AM
Friends,
We are now about to embark into verse 7 .Master TGN has brilliantly covered this-every sentence of his is bristling with deep insight,and he covers a vast Ground and links everything so cogently that one is left speechless at the oceanic wisdom that lies beneath this seemingly simple and sweet verse.We need to take time to cover this and I shall be posting a series over a period of time-I do not wish to skip anything that TGN has covered so wonderfully.
Meantime I will share this incident that may interest you-This verse has been occupying my mind over the last few days and in our office as I along with a few colleagues were in the canteen having a Tea break,someone mentioned how sparrows have totally disappeared in Chennai and its surrounds.This prompted another,a christian from Kerala who said that 'AnaichAththan bird' is also rare to see nowadays!Immediately I asked him whether he had seen one!He said 'Oh Yes!They make a lot of noise and were seen in Plenty in Kerala'.I immediately took note that our Lady AnDAL has dropped a hint and wants me to explore this further.I had intended to look up the net to see a photo of this bird and I landed on a couple of Interesting Blogs!
Please visit:
http://thoughtsonsanathanadharma.blogspot.in/2012/12/thirupavai-pasuram-7.html#!/2012/12/thirupavai-pasuram-7.html (http://thoughtsonsanathanadharma.blogspot.in/2012/12/thirupavai-pasuram-7.html#!/2012/12/thirupavai-pasuram-7.html)
I learn here why AnDAL has of all birds(Crows,Parrots,so many are there!)chosen the AnaichAththan bird also called as BhAradwAja bird in Sanskrit.
This Blog seems to be very good and will add to our appreciation of TiruppAvai.Ofcourse Master TGN also brings the JnAna perspective to top this all.All in all,this is a rich feast and the more we learn the more we immerse ourselves in this wonderful work and our hearts are filled with wonder and Gratitude for our Lady AnDAL(nAchchiyAr).
I also came across this link-Amazing AnDAL:
http://www.speakingtree.in/spiritual-blogs/seekers/mysticism/amazing-andal-where-did-she-see-the-lion (http://www.speakingtree.in/spiritual-blogs/seekers/mysticism/amazing-andal-where-did-she-see-the-lion)

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: ramanaduli on March 29, 2013, 06:23:41 PM
Dear sir,

Here I want to share about Bharatwaja bird.  There is a story in ThruviLaiyadal purnam where Lord shiva granted Moksha to a KARUN KURUVI.
This bird was called eLiyan but after doing tapas this bird is called now Valiyan. The name was given by Lord Shiva. This bird came to Thruvalidayam in Chennai and worshiped Shiva too. In this temple Bharatwaja muni also did tapas. This is the reason it is called Bharatwaja bird.  This bird chirps like sparrow and is having long tail. It looks black too. To day I came to know this is the AnaichAchthaan


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on January 04, 2014, 07:18:08 AM
Subramanian/Ramanaduli/Friends,
Thanks for prodding me to continue the Tiruppavai Commentary of Master TGN.My PC is currently uninstalled on account of repairs carried out in my apartment.I shall continue as soon as it is installed.I do not find the ipad comfortable enough for that purpose.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: ramanaduli on January 07, 2014, 03:17:34 PM
Dear Ravi ji,

Everything is done by the grace of Him. I think He knows when to serve to us this discussion.


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on January 11, 2014, 10:12:24 AM
ramanaduli/Friends,
Yes.The Beauty and wisdom of Tiruppavai is something that is not easy to lay down in prose and is not possible without the Grace of our Guru AnDAL.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Jewell on January 14, 2014, 08:10:36 AM
Dear Sri Ravi,

Thank You for continuing this beautiful,beautiful work Sir. I just love Lady Andal, these golden verses,and that love and truth which echoes in them...

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on January 16, 2014, 06:45:11 AM
Jewell/Friends,
Thanks for your keen interest and appreciation of this wonderful work.I am constrained to proceed slow,as the subject matter is subtle.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on January 21, 2014, 06:55:35 AM
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for adding the illustration to verse 8.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on January 21, 2014, 10:16:13 AM
:)

(http://www.vivekanandaashram.org/lims/i/graphics/sharatha_devi.png)
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on January 24, 2014, 09:36:47 AM
Ramanaduli,
Appropos of how words have transformed themselves in everyday speech in Tamizh,TGN mentions the word வண்டவாளம் vanDavALam -we say :'I know your vanDavALam' .This has a Negative connotation,meaning 'I know your History Sheet'!
This word is a Colloquial form that sprang from:வேண்டல் + வளம்-Meaning 'All that a person Desires or Needs+All that a Person Has in abundance'-Meaning all the Minus and Pluses-Meaning the personality of that person.
வேண்டல் + வளம் has become வண்டவாளம்!

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: ramanaduli on January 24, 2014, 05:25:06 PM
Dear sir,

When Periyazhvar found the baby girl, He gave the name KODHAI. But she got the name AaNDaaL. She not only caught Ranganathan's heart i.e. AaNDu koNdavaL. But she conquered The language of Tamil, and Vedham. No other name is fit than AaNDaal.

ramanaduli
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on January 25, 2014, 09:00:27 AM
Ramanaduli,
TGN is a Jnani.you may look up this site:
http://www.tgnfoundation.org/ (http://www.tgnfoundation.org/)
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on February 01, 2014, 09:33:51 AM
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for posting those illustrations; also for the beautiful picture of our Holy Mother right here.Today's post in the Tiruppavai thread carries her wonderful message:

Quote
I tell you one thing—if you want peace of mind, do not find fault with others. Rather see your own faults. Learn to make the whole world your own. No one is a stranger my child: this whole world is your own!


Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on February 01, 2014, 10:05:58 AM
Dear Sri Ravi,

it reminded me the following:

From Bible, Matthew -

"Do not judge others, so that God will not judge you, for God will judge you in the same way you judge others, and he will apply to you the same rules you apply to others. Why, then, do you look at the speck in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the log in your own eye? How dare you say to your brother, "Please, let me take that speck out of your eye,' when you have a log in your own eye? You hypocrite! First take the log out of your own eye, and then you will be able to see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

Also, it is a matter of fact that Gods creation is his doings are always perfect, only it appears faulty from our vision camouflaged with self interest and strong views and opinions of good and bad.

in the word of Satya Sai Baba -

"All the plans of God are meant only for the welfare of others. God always does only good, which may appear to be bad to some people. The mistake lies in their vision, not in God’s creation. Whatever God does, it is always meant to help you and develop your sacredness."

Somewhere, Swami Vivekananda has quoted the following (appx) -

"Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself' Why? because, Thy neighbor is yourself. By hurting your neighbor, you are hurting yourself, by loving your neighbor, you are loving yourself. By seeing God in your neighbor, you are seeing God in yourself! You are God, Aatma, Chaitanya, You are that Self."

Sringeri Swamigal, Sri Bharathi Theertha quoted in one of his Anugraha Bhashanam -

If your concience concludes that "I have not erred today in any sense," only such a day is well-spent. When such days increase in number, it is indicative of the extent of purity of the mind."

Everyone commits a mistake some time of other. Hence once with immense power must have patience."


--
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on February 07, 2014, 06:49:51 AM
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for the picture with the English translation-You may leave the translation as it is.It will help to compare TGN's translation with that.We clearly see how TGN has dived straightaway into the essence-He has titled it as 'Rare Receptacle' .
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on February 07, 2014, 07:19:28 AM
Dear Sri Ravi,

Master TGN's expressions really a treat, as a tamizh lover, surely can sense the blood of Mahakavi, and the insights that are gained by the various interpretations of tamizh words are really so wonderful for the heart, even though i am just a layman in reading and understanding tamizh. Had i, even more proficiency in tamizh, i would have loved to read aplenty but am content with what little juice i get as they are filled as much as more.

Good day to one and all

:)
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on March 12, 2014, 05:58:28 AM
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for helping with the illustrations.
Namaskar
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on March 14, 2014, 06:50:26 AM
Friends,
I have cited the example of Latu Maharaj (Swami Adbhutananda),in the comments to TiruppAvai verse 12.
As Rakhturam,a poor orphaned boy who lost his parents at the age of 5,he was brought up by his uncle in Bihar, he came to Calcutta and was employed as a servant boy in the house of Sri Ramachandra Dutta,a householder disciple of Sri Ramakrishna.Ramachandra Dutta used to visit Sri Ramakrishna and when he came come back home,would recount the conversations and stories about the master to his wife.Rakhturam listened to these talks and became eager to meet Sri Ramakrishna but could never bring himself to ask his master Ramachandra Dutta to take him to Dakshineswar.However the more he listened to the recounting of Ramachandra the more ardent he became until one day he could not contain himself,and followed his master who travelled in a Horsecart to Dakshineswar!On arriving at Dakshineswar,as Ramachandra Dutta entered Sri Ramakrishna's room,the poor boy stayed outside as is customary for a servant.Sri Ramakrishna asked Ramachandra whether anyone else accompanied him and he told him that he came alone,for he never counted the servant boy as one!Sri Ramakrishna came out and finding Rakhturam standing outside asked the boy to come in and sit in the room.
Rakturam hestitantly entered the room and sat down dissolved in tears and became totally absorbed.This is a wonderful story of how this utterly rustic servant boy became a paramahamsa .
Once the Master told him in an ecstatic mood, "One day the gems of the Vedas and Vedanta will pour forth from your lips". Thus Latu was commissioned and blessed by the Master. This prophecy later came to be fulfilled to the letter. It would seem as though Sri Ramakrishna intended to demonstrate to the modern world through Latu that God can be realized without the study of books and scriptures, that spiritual wisdom comes not through intellectual knowledge but through inner realization.
Those interested may refer:
http://rkmfiji.org/swami-adbhutananda/ (http://rkmfiji.org/swami-adbhutananda/)
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on March 25, 2014, 06:41:24 AM
Friends,
Verse 1 and Verse 13 in TiruppAvai help to fix the period of AnDAL's sojourn on terra firma.In the very first verse of Tirupavai, she says that it was Full moon day in the month of Markazi-மார்கழித் திங்கள் மதி நிறைந்த நன்னாளால்   and then she says in verse 13 -Venus arising,Jupiter has gone to slumber -வெள்ளி எழுந்து வியாழம் உறங்கிற்று
This happened on 18th December 731 AD according to scholars Raghava Iyengar and KG Shankar.
AnDAL lived for a mere 24 years and was absorbed in Lord Ranganatha and her father periyAzhwAr continued for another 8 years before laying down his body.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: ramanaduli on March 26, 2014, 04:57:28 PM
Dear Ravi ji,

I think the planets might have fallen in such a way that afte full moon on13th day. the  Venus arised and Jupiter got slumbered. She sang even the planetary positions of that time.


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on April 02, 2014, 08:15:07 AM
Ramanaduli,

Quote
I think the planets might have fallen in such a way that afte full moon on13th day.


I do not know,may be the astronomers may figure it out.It is not as if AnDAL completed one verse per day;it is quite likely that she might have composed it at one go on the same day.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on April 04, 2014, 07:01:32 AM
Friends,
We are now in verse 14 of TiruppAvai-a wonderful verse is this-There is comraderie,friendly taunt,and sense of togetherness,a freedom to take liberty with each other at a Human level;yet there is an underlying sense of Unity and purpose.TGN has revealed the central theme-that a seeker has to be devoted to Truth in thought,word and action.
When i Began this thread on TiruppAvai,prompted by our esteemed friend Subramanian,I was hesitant;I still am.When I met TGN soon after I began this topic,I mentioned to him that i am posting on TiruppAvai,whatever little that I have learnt from him,and sought  his blessings.
"There is  Grasp and competence"-Said he ,with a smile.I am putting my trust in his words and taking my plunge here-guided by his wonderful talks.
In his talks,TGN has said:'I Have given all the hints and clues;the more you delve into the subject,the richer will be your reward.You need not limit yourself to whatever I have expressed.You may go farther than this'.
In this verse 14,I am on this unchartered waters,guided by the above saying of Master TGN.It is concerning the meaning of this part of the verse:

செங்கற் பொடிக்கூறை வெண்பல் தவத்தவர்
தங்கள் திருக்கோயில் சங்கிடுவான்  போகின்றார்


This is translated as :

The ascetics with raiment red as brick-dust and
whose teeth are white are proceeding on their task
to blow the conch in their own temples;

What has வெண்பல், White Teeth to do with Tapas?This is something that is totally incongruent and lady AnDAL would never have meant it.In his talks ,TGN has simply mentioned it and has passed it.His main thrust is on remaining faithful to Truth and adhering to it.

Contemplating on this verse,it occurs to me that  வெண்பல் is a shortened form of வெண்பலி -which means ash.

செங்கற் பொடிக்கூறை வெண்பல் தவத்தவர் means that Ascetics wearing Ochre Robe and Sacred ash.

வெண்பல் தவத்தவர் means the Tapasvis who wear Sacred ash or Vibhuti.

We know that Saivism and Vaishavism thrived in the same period-and both had the common objective of infusing Bhakti and jnana in the hearts of common folks.

Herein,in this verse we see the Love and wisdom of our Lady AnDAL that knows no barriers,acknowledging the Greatness of SivAchAryas;She calls them as Tapasvis,proceeding to திருக்கோயில் ;She uses the Phrase தங்கள் திருக்கோயில் -meaning 'their Holy temple'.They may be visiting their temple,whatever that be;Yet that is Holy,Sacred.

More on my ramblings later.I just wanted to sound a note of caution to readers that I am on an unchartered ground here.So please take it for what it is.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on April 09, 2014, 07:35:08 AM
Friends,
I have taken a simple straight forward sense of the lines:

செங்கற் பொடிக்கூறை வெண்பல் தவத்தவர்
தங்கள் திருக்கோயில் சங்கிடுவான்  போகின்றார்


செங்கற் பொடிக்கூறை வெண் பல் தவத்தவர்-I have taken this to mean that Devotees both monastic as well as Lay are proceeding to the temple to blow the conch.

There are interpretations by others that go to some length to explain what  வெண்பல் veNpal White Teeth refers to-That it refers to SanyAsis who do not eat Betel Leaf and Nut (வெற்றிலை பாக்கு) -Hence their teeth is white,etc .

I also found an interpretation that took this as வெண்பலி தவத்தவர் -Those who wear Sacred Ash.I have contemplated along these lines as I have posted earlier in this thread.

I have rejected both these views and taken a simple straight forward reading -பல் தவத்தவர் to mean different types of devotees,both monastic and lay.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on April 19, 2014, 08:54:10 AM
Friends,
We are now in verse 15 of TiruppAvai.To recapitulate the grouping of verses:
Verses 1-5:உய்வதற்கான மார்க்கம் (Path to Salvation)
Verses 6-15:உறங்கியது போதாதோ!(Emerge out of Slumber!)
verses 16-20:தட்டுங்கள் திறக்கப்படும் (Knock and it shall be Opened)
Verses 21-30:வேண்டியதைப் பெறலாம்(Achieve all your desires)

With this verse 15, the call for awakening from Slumber comes to a close.This verse is wonderful for the spirit of comraderie-a sharp and short exchange of words takes place -leading to what is called Vaishanava Lakshanam-The very Definition of a true Vaishnava-Where one owns complete responsibility and accepts even other's faults as one's own-This is the true mark of a seeker that he does not blame others but accepts all of it himself in a spirit of humility.

The verse 15 thus occupies a central place in TiruppAvai.Although I have said that I have been hesitant,nothing has given me greater pleasure and joy than sharing these wonderful verses here and to be part of the satsangh of our Guru AnDAL,The girl with the Fragrant garland who ruled it over the Lord and all of us.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Nagaraj on April 20, 2014, 09:03:13 AM
i was inspired to read this in an internet source:

Charactrestrics of Superior Bhakti (Utthama Sri Vaishnavaas)

BhUvarAhAcchAr Swamy sums up the TEN distingushing codes of conduct for our interaction with UtthamAdhikAris ( BhaagavathAs/BhakthAs of BhagavAn)as instructd by ANDAL through the "ukthi-prayukthi " lines of this very important paasuram :

1. " ellE ilankiLiyE": the implied sense is that the speech of the devotee (BHagavathA) is most welcome.

2. " innam uRangudiyO?": it is wrong to indulge in other things (vishayams) when the company of BhagavathAs is available.

3. " chil yenRu azhayEnmin": Not a single harsh word should be  used in conversation with BhAgavathAs.

4. " nangaimeer pOdarhinREn": BhAgavathAs should be addressed  most respectfully with utter/sincere humility.

5. " Vallai un katturaigaL": even the chastisement by a BhAgavathA (which will always be constructive)      should be accepted gracefully.

6. " ValleergaL neengaLE NAANE THAAN AAYIDUGA" : Owning others'  mistakes as one's own is the hallmark (LakshaNam) of a true Sri VaishNavan. For example , BharathA holds himself responsible for RaamA's exile to the forest.

7. " ollai nee pOdhAi": seperation form the BhAgavathAs even for a second is unbearable.

8. " unakenna vERudayai" : The path laid down by one's poorvAs need to be followed , not what is dictated by one's own mind.

9. " ellArum pOndhArO pOnthAr ponthu yeNNikkoL ": seeing a congregation of BhAgavathAs (and being part of that      group)is the most desired fruit in this life. The enjoyment  is not complete even if one BhAgavathA  is missing.      Their sight (darsana soubhAgaym)and touch ( adorning  the dust from their sacred feet )are all vital factors      to change one's purpose in this life and acquire lasting  soubhAgyams.

10." VallAnai konRAnai mARRArai mARRazhikka vallAnai Mayanai paadu":  Singing His ( Lord's) virtues , valour , victory and other  kalyANa guNAs are vital to a Sri VaishNavA as  means of  pleasing other Sri VaishNavAs; as such , it results in  the service of BhAgavathAs( BhAgavatha daasyam), which is  the boundary limit of Bhagavath Kaimkaryam .

These ten golden rules are to be cherished by us says  ANDAL , the avathAram of BhUmi Devi for our ujjeevanam (salvation)after Her own dialog on Laghu Upayam with Her Lord BhU VarAhan to redeem us .

Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on April 21, 2014, 07:36:06 AM
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for the post by Sri BhUvarAhAcchAr Swamy.This verse 15 is indeed wonderful for its Sharp and sweet exchange of words between the Girls.We will see the significance of AnDAL asking the girl to count!
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on June 12, 2015, 07:36:40 AM
Friends,
We have not visited Tiruppavai thread for quite some time now.To Recap,we are on this very central and deeply pregnant verse in Tiruppavai,Verse 15.

எல்லே இளங்கிளியே! இன்னம் உறங்குதியோ?
சில்லென்றழையேன்மின், நங்கைமீர்! போதர்கின்றேன்;
'வல்லை, உன் கட்டுரைகள்! பண்டே உன்வாயறிதும்!'
'வல்லீர்கள் நீங்களே நானேதான் ஆயிடுக!'

'ஒல்லைநீ போதாய், உனக்கென்ன வேறுடையை?'
'எல்லோரும் போந்தாரோ?' 'போந்தார், போந்து எண்ணிக்கொள்'
வல்லானை கொன்றானை, மாற்றாரை மாற்றழிக்க
வல்லானை, மாயனைப் பாடேலோரெம்பாவாய்.

To get to the essence of this verse,there can be no better commentary than the words of Kanchi Mahaswami-who is its best exemplar.I warmly recommend this video /Talk by the mahaswami:
http://periva.proboards.com/thread/9423/sri-maha-perivas-message-devoteesixzz3c0BB9dSi (http://periva.proboards.com/thread/9423/sri-maha-perivas-message-devoteesixzz3c0BB9dSi)
வாயறிதும்-refers to upanyasam and we may see what mahaswami has to say on that.
See if we can find "வல்லீர்கள் நீங்களே நானேதான் ஆயிடுக!" in his talk!This is how the jnani conducts himself as an acharya!He simply practices what he preaches and it is this practice that is his tapas and this tapas benefits the whole world!('எல்லோரும் போந்தாரோ?' 'போந்தார், போந்து எண்ணிக்கொள்')
I came across this talk recemtly and it gives me immense happiness to see how this is a perfect commentary and live modern day version of this Tiruppavai verse 15.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 16, 2017, 06:14:47 AM
Friends,
Today ushers in the auspicious month of margazhi ...My thoughts go back to my childhood days when temple bells and devotional songs from all directions will fill the air in the predawn period...and there will be a lilt and sprightliness to the gait of everyone young and old in the household preparing to visit the early morning temple worship...These days the worship in the temples go on but the gaiety is much mellowed but nevertheless the month has its charm undiminished.
We have not visited the Tiruppavai for quite sometime...let us see if we can continue from where we left off.
namaskar
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Jewell on December 16, 2017, 07:35:47 AM
O how happy,happy i am to see You are continuing this thread,dear Sri Ravi!

Truly,even if i never knew Tiruppavai,or Lady Andal,i am in love with this Divine work. There is some sort of familiarity and sweetness,beyond my understanding... It is all because of our Lord! Our beautiful blue hued Lord!

You made me so happy this morning... (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1450317930/rose-icon_normal.png)

With love,
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Ravi.N on December 17, 2017, 04:09:31 AM
Jewell,
You are indeed blessed...it is indeed very rare to come across one who can appreciate spiritual fare in all its varied aspects from seemingly diverse sources...the essence is ever the same and inexhaustible i.e shivam santham sundaram (Auspiciousness, peace and beauty)...this is truly an asset.
namaskar
Title: Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
Post by: Jewell on December 18, 2017, 02:12:55 AM
Dear Sri Ravi,

Indeed inexhaustible! Shivam santham sundaram (Auspiciousness, peace and beauty)-Everything He is,everything He is!


With love,