The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nagaraj on September 17, 2012, 08:07:46 AM

Title: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 17, 2012, 08:07:46 AM
O Mother, what a machine is this that Thou hast made! What pranks Thou playest with this toy Three and a half cubits high!

God alone is the Doer. I say: 'O Lord, I do as Thou doest through me. I speak as Thou speakest through me. I am the machine and Thou art the Operator. I am the house and Thou art the Indweller. I am the engine and Thou art the Engineer.'


...remembering the words of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Thank you.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on September 17, 2012, 09:41:57 AM
Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

Heartiest welcome ! We sadly missed your love as well as deep insights, and soul-stirring discussions were few and far between in the forum in your absence. Therefore, you were conspicuous by your absence. We indeed heartily welcome your decision to rejoin us. Thanks very much. I have felt that the Lotus Feet of the Guru are here and now also.

Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji, it is the doership idea which comes in the way of the complete self-surrender. When this idea wanes, one is able to clearly recognise that everything belongs to Him and all are shaped by Him only. This is culmination of the Supreme Devotion in complete self-surrender.  One also comes to discern and recognise clearly that what we call surrender is in truth like pinching a little jaggery from a jaggery image of Lord Ganesha and offering it to Lord Ganesha in worship.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil   
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 17, 2012, 02:13:54 PM
Dear Nagaraj, I am very happy to see You again here,even if i feel that You never left us,because You are part of this forum,this Divine Fellowship. It is good to have here someone with Your knowledge and insight. Wish You the Very Best!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 17, 2012, 04:03:25 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

You have come again to the Forum. It is very nice. BUT DO NOT THINK OF GOING AWAY AGAIN. If you don't feel writing
anything, please stay away from discussions. But do not withdraw outright.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 17, 2012, 06:48:33 PM
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much.I am reading the wonderful words of the Master that you have posted as if for the first time.They always go straight to one's heart and echo there.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: cefnbrithdir on September 18, 2012, 01:13:48 AM

Dear Nagaraj

Thank you for returning.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 18, 2012, 11:29:51 AM
Thank you, thanks to all for your love

Title: Patience
Post by: Nagaraj on September 18, 2012, 11:39:41 AM
A young man came to a zen master to learn about meditation.

The zen master asked, "Are you capable of waiting?"

The young man asked, " of course, how long?"

The master said, " That is enough for me to reject you"

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 18, 2012, 12:03:36 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Patience is quite important. While JK said: Effortless and Choicless Awarenss, Sri Bhagavan said that to attain that
Awareness, one has to have a lot of patience and perseverance. Sri Bhagavan's case, it took only 15 minutes, but His
case was special. For all others, one need to put in a lot of efforts.   Upansidads speak of disciples grazing cows for 32 years
and this was three times, and then Atma Upadesam came to be understood and revealed.


Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on September 18, 2012, 12:40:24 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Patience is quite important. While JK said: Effortless and Choicless Awarenss, Sri Bhagavan said that to attain that
Awareness, one has to have a lot of patience and perseverance. Sri Bhagavan's case, it took only 15 minutes, but His
case was special. For all others, one need to put in a lot of efforts.   Upansidads speak of disciples grazing cows for 32 years
and this was three times, and then Atma Upadesam came to be understood and revealed.


Arunachala Siva.

True patience is important and we are impatient because we want a quick fix solution to all our problems .
Laxmana Swamy has mentioned in his book "No Mind I am Self" that many people used to come to him asking if they stay with him for 3 years will they get Moksha for which Laxmana Swamy used to smilingly reply that he is not conducting a degree course in Moksha where people will get a Certificate saying they have attained moksha after 3 years stay with him .

Many people used to ask Bhagwan Ramana that whether he has the capacity to give spiritual power to them the same way Sri Ramakrishna Paramahmsa gave the spiritual power to Vivekananda and Bhagwan's reply was simple : are u first Vivekananda ?
Title: Spirituality should ripen us
Post by: Nagaraj on September 18, 2012, 06:51:47 PM
i have come to discern and believe, that, all our practices, sadhana, exposure to various spiritual literature, satsang, various Saints, company of the good people, should ripen us as a better human beings, more than even spiritual evolution. I believe that spiritual evolution is a natural fruit for a ripened soul. The Latter comes as a boon from God or Self as a gift  The very purpose of life is to be lived awake, feel and experience the joys and sorrows of life, in its full, express solicitude and gratitude for persons who have touched our lives in some way or the other, both, the good and the bad ones, they have all helped us, here today, where we stand. A life of Dharma, itself is Realisation. Sri Rama's life is a testimony to this. A life, being awake.

"There was a monastery in a certain place. The monks residing there went out daily to beg their food. One day a monk, while out for his alms, saw a landlord beating a man mercilessly. The compassionate monk stepped in and asked the landlord to stop. But the landlord was filled with anger and turned his wrath against the innocent monk. He beat the monk till he fell unconscious on the ground. Someone reported the matter to the monastery. The monks ran to the spot and found their brother lying there. Four or five of them carried him back and laid him on a bed. He was still unconscious. The other monks sat around him sad at heart; some were fanning him. Finally someone suggested that he should be given a little milk to drink. When it was poured into his mouth he regained consciousness. He opened his eyes and looked around. One of the monks said, 'Let us see whether he is fully conscious and can recognize us.' Shouting into his ear, he said, 'Revered sir, who is giving you milk?' 'Brother,' replied the holy man in a low voice, 'He who beat me is now giving me milk.' (Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa)

In the end, if our spiritual quest, does not help us in being a more considerate human being, it is not really worthy possession. All the rivers reach the ocean, so, any which way, whether one is in a spiritual quest of the Self or God, is primarily in a journey. The great Realised souls are genuinely known more for their compassion, the so many lives that they have touched, than their realisation.

Title: Prarabdha
Post by: Nagaraj on September 18, 2012, 09:07:03 PM
आत्मानं सततं ज्ञात्वा कालं नय महामते |
प्रारब्धमखिलं भुञ्जन्नोद्वेगं कर्तुमर्हसि ||

Aatmaanam satatam jnyaatvaa kaalam naya mahaatmate
Praarabhdamakhilam bhunjannodvegam kartumarhasi (Nada Bindu Upanishad)


O' Esteemed Honored one, spend your life always in the knowing of the Atma/Self, enjoying the whole of your Prarabdha (destiny to be worked out in this life, resulting from the balance-sheet of actions in past lives) without making any complaint of it.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 18, 2012, 09:54:35 PM
Nagaraj,
"I believe that spiritual evolution is a natural fruit for a ripened soul".

Wonderful post.This is what Sage Tiruvalluvar says:

வையத்துள் வாழ்வாங்கு வாழ்பவன் வானுறையும்
தெய்வத்துள் வைக்கப் படும்.


He who lives Life on Earth the way it has to be Lived
He abides as God in the Empyrean.

H W Longfellow says so beautifully in his Village Blacksmith:
Toiling,---rejoicing,---sorrowing,
Onward through life he goes;
Each morning sees some task begin,
Each evening sees it close;
Something attempted, something done,
Has earned a night's repose.

Thanks, thanks to thee, my worthy friend,
For the lesson thou hast taught!
Thus at the flaming forge of life
Our fortunes must be wrought;
Thus on its sounding anvil shaped
Each burning deed and thought.
"

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 19, 2012, 05:38:57 PM
Dear Sri Ravi,

Even Sri Bhagavan too, unlike popularly it is seen (of a renunciate of highest order, kaupina dhari, one who lived only with kaupina, etc...) lived his life like a millionaire. He had thousands of people who loved him, he accumulated a huge family, bound by love of Bhakti. His life does enunciates the experiences of an ideal human being.

It reminded me a verse from Mankuthimmana Kagga, which is very famous in the Kannada world,

An easy way to be contented, is to realise that it is a drama that is played on a stage, and, immerse oneself in it completely right from the begining. One must play ones part to the fullest of ones ability to entertain others, and, at the same time, one must be aware that he himself also is a spectator for the drama that is unfolding on the stage and enjoy the play as a witness as well, irrespective of whether it is a comedy, tragedy. If this is discerned, one will be the master, who rules ones world. This drama does not have any plot, neither begining nor an end, but it has rules!

(DV Gundappa, Mankuthimmana Kagga)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 19, 2012, 05:58:19 PM
Dear Ravi, Nagaraj,

Yes. Manguthimmana Kagga of DVG is a treasure of very high Vedantic ideas.

Once a rishi was trying to take out a scorpion which was struggling in river water. He took it out. But it stung him.
And then fell down into the river. The rishi again took it out. Again it stung him and then jumped into the river.

A passerby asked: O rishi, in spite of knowing that it is the nature of scorpion to sting a person, why did you
take it out three times and got all the time stings?

Rishi said: What to do?  It is playing its drama in this world. I am playing my drama in this world, Both of us are actors.

It can never become a Rishi. I can never become a scorpion.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 19, 2012, 10:10:52 PM
Nagaraj/Subramanian,

Sri Bhagavan represents this chant:

poornamadah poornamidam
Poornaat poornamudachyate
Poornasya poornamaadaya
Poornamevaavashishyate

Meaning:
That (pure consciousness) is full (perfect); this (the manifest universe of matter; of names and forms being maya) is full. This fullness has been projected from that fullness. When this fullness merges in that fullness, all that remains is fullness.

Namaskar.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 20, 2012, 07:18:16 PM
When realisation came to me, I was filled with joy and all fear departed from me.
I found pure deliverance in the realm of the unapproachable, the unthinkable.

The Unapproachable has come near, the message of the Unthinkable abides with me always, the Unutterable find utterance.
From separation I have come to Union.
The bonds of self are loosened, all error has fled, and the light of the Brahman shines upon my soul.

Dadu says: I am neither Hindu nor Muslim
I am not attached to any of the six philosophical schools.
I love the merciful God.

In cutting Brahma up into bits the sects have divided him.
Dadu says: abandon limited thought in favour of the unlimited and become non-sectarian (nipakh).

Dadu says: since I am non-sectarian, the people are all in anger against me.

I have found that God is unchangeable, immortal, fearless, self-existent,
Almighty, pure, unimaged, unseen, infinite and incomprehensible.
Worship is due to Him and Him alone.

(Dadu Dayal, 15th Century Mystic)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 20, 2012, 09:03:38 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

You have wonderfully posed as to what happens when Realization is attained.  The situation is something indescribable.
It is beyond words. The achievers of Realization say that they do not know what to do or say. Sri  Bhagavan, of course,
said that He was normal, going to Meenkashi Temple, and crying before the 63 Saints. Of course, the interest in studies
had totally gone. He says:  I was feeling I had a fever. But it was a fever of sukam, sukamana Vyadhi...... 

Saint Manikkavachagar describes his State after Sivanubhuti (Tirupadai Atchi, The Rule of Siva's Holy Army), in Tiruvachakam:

கண்களிரண்டும் அவன்கழல் கண்டு களிப்பன ஆகாதே
காரிகை யார்கள்தம் வாழ்விலென் வாழ்வு கடைப்படும் ஆகாதே
மண்களில் வந்து பிறந்திடு மாறி மறந்திடும் ஆகாதே
மாலறி யாமலர்ப் பாதம் இரண்டும் வணங்குதும் ஆகாதே
பண்களி கூர்தரு பாடலொ டாடல் பயின்றிடும் ஆகாதே
பாண்டிநன்னாடுடை யான்படை யாட்சிகள் பாடுதும் ஆகாதே
விண்களி கூர்வதோர் வேதகம் வந்துவெளிப்படும் ஆகாதே
மீன்வலை வீசிய கானவன் வந்து வெளிப்படும் ஆயிடிலே. 635

ஒன்றினொ டொன்றுமோ ரைந்தினொ டைந்தும் உயிர்ப்பது மாகாதே
கன்றை நினைந்தெழு தாயென வந்த கணக்கது வாகாதே
காரணமாகும் அனாதி குணங்கள் கருத்தறு மாகாதே
நன்றிது தீதென வந்த நடுக்கம் நடந்தன வாகாதே
நாமுமெ லாமடி யாருட னேசெல நண்ணினு மாகாதே
என்றுமென் அன்பு நிறைந்த பராவமு தெய்துவ தாகாதே
ஏறுடை யான்எனை ஆளுடை நாயகன் என்னுள் புகுந்திடிலே. 636


I am no longer able to relish His anklet wearing Feet!
(How can I, after becoming One with Him?)

I am not able to enjoy the company of women and degenerate my life!
(How can I? Where is the 'other'? Where are other women? All are the Self!)

I am not willing to be born again in this earth to pray and dance before Siva!
(How can I? I have already attained Him.  Where is the question of being born again,
and pray to His Feet? We are One and the only one without a second!)

I am not able to pray to His feet which are unfathomed by Vishnu!
(How can I? Where is Vishnu? Where are Siva's Feet. All have become One.
We are now the Only One without a second!)

I am not able to pray with songs and dance!
(How to sing> How to dance? Where are 'others'. I and Siva have now become One!)

I am not able to praise the kingdom of Pandya and His rule and army!
(How can I when I and Siva have become One. Where is Pandya or his kingdom and his army?)

I am not able to relish the Pure Space, where Siva danced among clouds!
(How can I, how can Siva appear 'separately' in the Space to dance?)

Yes. Siva has become One with me. That fellow the fisherman, has caught me in
his net!     

The twelve types of emotions do not come to me and disturb me!
There is no more saying, I am your devotee, devotee's devotee!
I am not able to cry like the Mother Cow in search of its Calf!
I am not afflicted by any ancient gunas including ego.

All are gone. I am One with Siva.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 20, 2012, 09:12:37 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Saint Manikkavachagar describes his state of bliss upon attainment of the Goal:

நன்றிது தீதென வந்த நடுக்கம் நடந்தன வாகாதே
நாமுமெ லாமடி யாருட னேசெல நண்ணினு மாகாதே
என்றுமென் அன்பு நிறைந்த பராவமு தெய்துவ தாகாதே
ஏறுடை யான்எனை ஆளுடை நாயகன் என்னுள் புகுந்திடிலே. 636


I am no longer considering that this is good and that is bad, and thus getting delusion.
I am not quite eager to go behind the old devotees
On all days, I am  not rejoicing my divine love for Him
And becoming filled with overflowing torrents of love!
Why? Why? Why?
Because, that great Lord with bull as His vehicle has gone into my Heart and filled it fully!     


Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 21, 2012, 08:29:38 AM
Dear Sir,

Wonderful expressions! what can be responded back to such ecstatic out-pours of Manickavachakar

Some expressions of Jnaneshwar:

If it be said
That there was then no need
To begin to write such a work as this,
I would have to reply that
We are describing what is already self-evident
Only out of love for it.


What can we offer ourselves
In the form of exposition?

Even the ten Upanishads
Cannot approach this silent speech;
There, the intellect becomes
Absorbed in itself.

Jnanadeva says,
“This is the sweet Nectar
Of Mystical Experience.
Even those who are liberated
Should have a drink of it.”

Jnanadeva says,
“May everyone in the universe
Enjoy this feast of
The Nectar of Mystical Experience.”

Title: obilerating thoughts
Post by: Nagaraj on September 21, 2012, 08:59:48 AM
thoughts are like sparks of fire, inflamed and flying all around one. Taking the full pot of water in the form of the remembrance of the Name of the Lord, put out the fire-like thoughts.

the thought of the Name of the Lord is the [true] thought. All other thoughts are of no use. Whatever one thinks about without the Name, those are all of the death-noose of “kal” (time of death)

Even in the path of Enquiry, may get lost in some nitty gritties of Enquiry, and may get lost in intellect plane. So in those moments, when one is unable to abide steadfast in the true meditation of Self and when one is unable to truly stay with the source of 'I' chanting, remembering the name of Lord is best alternative, that serves the same purpose.

(Kabir)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 21, 2012, 12:42:57 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

This is what is also recommended by Sri Bhagavan: Instead of suffering in a jungle of thoughts, have one thought, that would
drive  away all the other unwanted thoughts. The purpose of mantra japa is only for this. If you constantly do mantra japa on
a God., in due course, the mantra (without associating with name and form) would alone remain with you, as natural as breathing.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Sun-Moon-Chit
Post by: Nagaraj on September 22, 2012, 04:49:14 PM
(http://yang-sheng.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/sun-moon-northpole.jpg)

Sun's light falls on the Moon, and we say, moon thinks it is Self. Infact it is the Light that imagines that it is moon. but actually it is just light.

When one realises that one is the Light and not the moon, does that light have to annihilate itself? to realise Brahman? or does the light that falls on the moon, go back to its source Sun? is the light already not separate from itself Sun.

To also say that Light comes from Sun is min interpretation. Light is itself the Self, Sun.

Light is Brahman, Prajna, Atma

You are neither the Sun nor the Moon, you are the Light - Prajna, Brahman, Atma

When the Light identifies itself as the moon (body) then the same intellect is ego, upon ceasing from identifying with moon (body), it is Self. Annihilation of ego is merely the discernment that you are not the moon (body) what remains is shuddha Chaitanya.


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 22, 2012, 05:00:42 PM
Another illustration occurred here

(http://www.ask-angels.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/eclipse.jpg)

When there is Solar eclipse, how is one able to say so? is it not again through the light of Sun itself? in the same way, Intellect is able to discern all these through its Self. Intellect is fully powered by itself, Jyothi Chaitanya.

is it right? therefore to say, Moon is hiding the Sun? it is Sun itself that is saying moon is hiding Self.

What is Sun, Sun is Light. Light again, is Prajna, Brahman Atma.

being the Chaitanya - Pure Light, identified with the Moon, we say, i am ignorant, ego has to die, but, if it is discerned that one is that Chaitanya. there will result no confusion.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 22, 2012, 05:31:53 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

The following verse comes under AruL Pathu of Manikkavachagavar.  This was composed in Tiruperundurai.
And the subtitle given for the work is - Maha Maya Suddhi. When the mind is purified , when Maya had withdrawn
her sports, the Sadhaka has been able to experience the Jyoti - i,e Atma Jyoti, the Light of Chaitanya within.
 

சோதியே சுடரே சூழொளி விளக்கே
சுரிசூழற் பணைமுலை மடந்தை
பாதியே பரனே பால்கொள்வெண்ணீற்றாய்
பங்கயத் தயனுமா லறியா
நீதியே செல்வத் திருப்பெருந்துறையில்
நிறைமலர்க் குருந்தமே வியசீர்
ஆதியே அடியேன் ஆதரித் தழைத்தால்
அதெந்துவே என் றரு ளாயே. 458


Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 22, 2012, 07:01:30 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Even devas of heavens have to come down to the earth, once their punyas get exhausted. Wereas,
in the earth, I pray to Siva  and attain the Chaitanya Jyothi within my heart, thus canceling all future births
and deaths including lives as gods in heavens.

See  this Truutellenam verse in Tiruvhachakam:

அவமாய தேவர் அவகதியில் அழுந்தாமே
பவமாயங் காத்தென்னை ஆண்டுகொண்ட பரஞ்சோதி
நவமாய செஞ்சுடர் நல்குதலும் நாம்ஒழிந்து
சிவமான வாபாடித் தெள்ளேணங் கொட்டாமோ. 238


Let us pray top that Siva who has given us the Param Jyoti in our heart so that we may not live even as gods
in heavens an come back to earth after the punyas are exhausted.
Let us all play tiruthelleam, thus glorifying His abundant Grace!

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 22, 2012, 07:06:01 PM
Dear Sir,

Purity of mind is attainment of Clarity - தெளிவு Thelivu

That discernment which does not give rise to any doubts, is the purification, bathing in the Ganges.

when this clarity is discerned, even when there is Maya, it will not shake the 'Chaitanya' like how Janaka was not shaken when he saw his entire kingdom destroyed by fire. The Moon (body) and Chaitanya, when discerned as the Self, then, even when big meteorites or moon quakes hit the moon, the Light is not affected, like wise, what what happens in the body, will never bother such a chaitanya.

That clarity, which results is no fear, doubts, aversions, joy, judgement, and that because of which, everything is at poise, samatva, unperturbed, that wisdom is cleansing. Discernment of that wisdom is the annihilation of ego.

Upon that discernment, ego, has no place to stand, it is annihilated altogether, and, the annihilation is more, just an inference, there is really no annihilation, as it was itself that danced as the ego, and has now ceased to be.

When such a clarity has dawned, there is no way one can be under the sway of the mind/ego any more. What ever such a one does, does so as a Leela - Divine play.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 22, 2012, 07:20:00 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. I agree with you. Unless ego is extinguished along with Maya and Karma, it is impossible to attain
the Experience. But in rare cases, Siva Himself does these snapping out of His abundant Grace.  Thus
Grace becomes of paramount importance than all of our efforts. Manikkavachagar sings this in Acho
Padigam, Verse 1:   

முத்திநெறி அறியாத மூர்க்கரொடு முயல்வேனைப்
பத்திநெறி அறிவித்துப் பழவினைகள் பாறும்வண்ணம்
சித்தமலம் அறுவித்துச் சிவமாக்கி எனைஆண்ட
அத்தனெனக் கருளியவா றார்பெறுவார் அச்சோவே. 650


He says (as a pageant) that he was moving with lowly fellows who did not know anything about moksha etc., But Siva
came on His own and taught him bhakti marga  snapped all the impurities and made him experience Siva Jnana!

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 22, 2012, 07:28:12 PM
Dear Nagaraj, You used the perfect symbolism in your previous posts. Beautiful! Yes,the light 'Imagine' to be the moon. It indentifies itself with body,and in that way make individuality,when there is non. So,how can any annhiliation occur after that,when the light see what exactly it is not. Only annhiliation is annhliation of the wrong understanding,and in same way,of individuality. Like one wise man said me once,The one who is searching,is the one who is sought for.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 22, 2012, 07:36:36 PM
Dear Sir,

All that is required is little bit, minuscule, genuine desire to see, or, attain God. Which is why He has give out various ways, through which we may desire Him or That.

A Shakti Upasaka may worship him as a child (Bala) as Mother, as even vamachara path as well, A Vaishnava woprships him as the Dhata, father, Supreme God, A Shaiva worships him as Jnana Jyoti, Tatva aaradhana, smartas worship all of them together, some worship as wisdom.

We just have to desire Him or That. That is the only eligibility, and we have to really really desire. Then as you have said, Siva Himself does these snapping out of His abundant Grace, by any way, he wills, in weirdest of ways!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 22, 2012, 07:47:12 PM
Dear Jewel,

Like one wise man said me once,The one who is searching,is the one who is sought for.

Sri Bhagavan says: That which makes the enquiry is the ego. The `I' about which the enquiry is made is also the ego. As the result of the enquiry the ego ceases to exist and only the Self is found to exist.



That which seems ignorant is also the same Self, that which attains clarity is also the same Self. That which manifests as ignorance and knowledge is also the same Chaitanya.

The Self may manifest as the Ego, mind, and play games, but it cannot be vice-verse - the Ego posing as Self. Without attainment of clarity, samsara can never be crossed. Therefore, once properly one has to engage all his heart mind and soul in what ever sadhana one may be doing, be it Vichara, Bhakti or Yoga.

Our attitude should go beyond just doing things for the sake, mechanically, one should have intense-intense desire. Only then Miracles happen. There if no point is crying nothing is happening.

If the disciple comes with a cup he will only get a cupful. It is no use complaining of the niggardliness of the ocean; the bigger the vessel the more he will be able to carry. It is entirely up to him.

We have to simply jump into what we are doing so intensely that we don't even turn back and have time to see how we are doing and evaluate things!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 22, 2012, 08:27:14 PM
Dear Nagaraj, Dont You think that the quote can mean also in that way like You said:" That which seems ignorant is also the same Self,that which attains clarity is also the same Self."? That same knowledge can be only intelectual,so where is the place,or no place,for ego then? It need to down,to setles,because there must be constant experience,feeling,that one is not the body. It is very dangerous place to be,without it. Can You tell me who write the last post? From what stand poind You wrote it? Which intelect that is?
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 22, 2012, 08:40:18 PM
Dear Jewel,

Does it matter really? what stand point i say? what matters is ones personal experience to the truth, One will know very well from his heart of hearts that what he reads is Truth or not, it will strike a chord in the deep realms of ones heart. Ones own Self is ones guide.

Only oneself can know. The one question that is very tough to win over is this -

How do i know, that i really know? because, this question has lot of twists, firstly, it will dawn to such a one that such a question arises only from ego, mind, and it will again dawn that why is there a need to know that i know? Do i have to know? How can i know if i am not deluding myself? how can i know if i am not under the sway of intellectual garb?

When one really knows, such questions will not affect the one, he will be so clear, that such question will never have a place to even stand before the fire of that light. Where can be a place for doubt before perfect clarity.

So Jewel, this is very personal query, and only oneself can find out oneself. It ultimately depends of the ripeness of the one and also depends on personal honesty to oneself.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 22, 2012, 08:50:22 PM
Dear Nagaraj, I agree with all what You said in Your last post. Truly agree. Thats whay i raised that question in the first place. We can have intelectual understanding of it,but to "know" that in the reals sense,we must be constantly in that non intentification state. That is the way i understand it. So,everything which You said before,is also the truth,only something missing,and that cannot be analised anymore,but felt,realised. I dont know,maybe this which i say can prove to be nonsence later,i will see. But,i just wanted to say that we are talking about the same thing. Still ego talking,in my case.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 22, 2012, 09:01:22 PM
Also,dear Nagaraj, I didnt want to,by any means,raise any doubt,or something like that. You know what You know,and listen Your Heart only. I just realised that we all have some understanding,and we talk one with another stubborny holding on our views. That,sure,doasnt mean You are not right,i say that from my stand point. But,it helps,so my understanding,no harm. Wish You the Very Best!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 22, 2012, 09:24:11 PM
Dear jewel,

I hope i have not in any way mis-communicated anything in my post. i never expressed anything in a way that could least create any hard feelings in any manner. i have tried to express in most honest way, and what you express and what i express, both holds good for me as well as much.

i believe, it is nothing about right or wrong, what is important beneath all these is if it is held and supported by Bhakti, love of God. Without this, everything is worthless. Any day, i would still opt to be just an ignorant servant in the holy feet of Bhagavan, over even salvation. Perhaps, i some times contemplate that it is a blessing in disguise to even retain ego, without which you will not get an opportunity to fall flat to the holy feet of Bhagavan.

It is the feeling of gratitude to have come in contact with the great Master that is supreme bliss over anything else. Nothing more is really required, this is all His divine play. What matters, if things are right or wrong? true or false, real or unreal, ignorant or worthy? Can all these better the glance of the Guru? Even the scoldings/admonishing to our ignorance of the Guru is so sweet.

If there is a choice to become a jnani or a Chela (Servant or Attendant) to my Guru, the latter is definitely more inviting than the former to me.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 22, 2012, 09:48:39 PM
Dear jewel,

I hope i have not in any way mis-communicated anything in my post. i never expressed anything in a way that could least create any hard feelings in any manner. i have tried to express in most honest way, and what you express and what i express, both holds good for me as well as much.

i believe, it is nothing about right or wrong, what is important beneath all these is if it is held and supported by Bhakti, love of God. Without this, everything is worthless. Any day, i would still opt to be just an ignorant servant in the holy feet of Bhagavan, over even salvation. Perhaps, i some times contemplate that it is a blessing in disguise to even retain ego, without which you will not get an opportunity to fall flat to the holy feet of Bhagavan.

It is the feeling of gratitude to have come in contact with the great Master that is supreme bliss over anything else. Nothing more is really required, this is all His divine play. What matters, if things are right or wrong? true or false, real or unreal, ignorant or worthy? Can all these better the glance of the Guru? Even the scoldings/admonishing to our ignorance of the Guru is so sweet.

If there is a choice to become a jnani or a Chela (Servant or Attendant) to my Guru, the latter is definitely more inviting than the former to me.

Prostrations to Bhagavan



No hard feelings,dear Nagaraj,not at all. In essence,i can only be annoyed for the time being,but that goes very quickly. Not because i am wise or anything,but thats the way i am. And,the truth is that i realised,with your answer,that i am still,even with some understanding,groping in the dark. All that is very tricky,for now. Thats way i said it need to settles,and i feel that there is something more. I will see what,and whay i think that in the first place.
I only wanted to make You realise one thing. Like You said for Yourself,You Yourself only knows,then You cannot know what i know for myself. Only that. And,it is good that this is happening,for me,because i cant fly to hi,and be in some sort of delusion.(i think that for myself) Like You said,All this doasnt have real importance. Earnestness and sincerity is all that matters,nothing else.

And i want to say one time more,that there is REALLY no hard feelings,and never will be!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 23, 2012, 06:07:59 AM
Dear Jewel, my friend, what can i say. am just unable to express more than the picture below:

(http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/photos/restored_photos/full/CLO_14b.jpg)

i have wondered o many times before, the first verse from the 40 verses in Praise of Sri Ramana, which goes as follows (below) is full of ego, i used to wonder how did Sri Bhagavan sanction this verse composed by Sri Vasishta Ganapati Muni. As this verse would be chanted by thousands, in the days to come, i used to feel very guilty before to even chant this verse that dares to express that I bow to the lotus feet of the spiritual teacher, Rishi Sri Ramana, who showed me the Lord, shining, transcending darkness. How could i go about praying to Sri Bhagavan and sing praises him and express at the same time as "who showed me the Lord, shining, transcending darkness." i used to go in guilt trips, feeling so uneasy to even sing that second line, the tongue would even resist to dare to even utter such a prayer, because, it felt, without retaining ego, one can never sing, He showed me the Lord, Shining, transcending darkness. But Later, slowly, it came to dawn, that Sri Bhagavan has sanctioned this verse, and, it is out of great gratitude that one sings what is conveyed in the verse. What is required is to never forget that gratitude.

vande shri ramaNarSher aacaaryasya padaabjam |
yo me'darshayadiisham bhaantaM dvaantamatiitya ||

vande - I bow,
sri ramanarser - of Rishi Sri Ramana ,
acharyasya - of the spiritual teacher,
padabjam - lotus feet,
yah- who,
me - me,
adarsayad - showed,
isam - Lord,
bhantam - shining,
dhvantam - darkness,
atitya - transcending

I bow to the lotus feet of the spiritual teacher, Rishi Sri Ramana,
who showed me the Lord, shining, transcending darkness.

The very first thing that i happened to read today morning is the following verse from Guru Ramana Vachana Mala, 96:

Being himself exactly the Supreme Being, but thinking himself to be separate from Him, (man) strives to become united to Him; what is there stranger than this?

Title: highly eliminated
Post by: Nagaraj on September 23, 2012, 10:55:12 AM
A student asked his teacher, are you enlightened? the terrific teacher that he was, gave the perfect reply to this very question:

No sir!, replied the venerable master,
I am not enlightened.

But I am highly eliminated!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 23, 2012, 11:35:13 AM
Dear Nagaraj,

Or rather,

I am highly alienated!

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Retribution
Post by: Nagaraj on September 23, 2012, 05:22:10 PM
Justice is not postponed. A perfect equity adjusts its balance in all parts of life. Oi chusoi Dios aei enpiptousi, -- The dice of God are always loaded. The world looks like a multiplication-table, or a mathematical equation, which, turn it how you will, balances itself. Take what figure you will, its exact value, nor more nor less, still returns to you. Every secret is told, every crime is punished, every virtue rewarded, every wrong redressed, in silence and certainty. What we call retribution is the universal necessity by which the whole appears wherever a part appears. If you see smoke, there must be fire. If you see a hand or a limb, you know that the trunk to which it belongs is there behind.

Ralph Waldo Emerson - "Compensations"

Title: disinterestedness
Post by: Nagaraj on September 23, 2012, 07:33:27 PM
ಗೌರವಿಸು ಜೀವನವ, ಗೌರವಿಸು ಚೇತನವ ।
ಆರದೋ ಜಗವೆಂದು ಭೇದವೆಣಿಸದಿರು ॥
ಹೋರುವುದೆ ಜೀವನಸಮೃದ್ಧಿಗೋಸುಗ ನಿನಗೆ ।
ದಾರಿಯಾತ್ಮೊನ್ನತಿಗೆ – ಮಂಕುತಿಮ್ಮ ॥ ೪೭೫ ॥

gouravisu jIvanava, gouravisu chEtanava ।
Arado jagavendu bhedaveNisadiru ॥
hOruvude jIvana samRuddhigOsuga ninage ।
dAri AtmOnnatige – Mankutimma ॥ 475 ॥

“Respect life, respect the Chaitanya that is the source of all.
Don’t be disinterested in this world assuming someone else is running it.
Putting in hard work is the only path towards prosperity.
It is also the path towards enrichment of your soul.” – Mankutimma

(DV Gundappa)

Life has become a torture chamber, a concentration camp; it is no more a celebration. It should be a celebration. If nature is allowed to take its own course, it is bound to be a celebration.

(Anonymous quote)
Title: Tomorrow
Post by: Nagaraj on September 23, 2012, 08:21:53 PM
It was a fine morning, and Yudhishtira, the eldest of the Pandavas, was sitting on the verandah of his house when a beggar came asking for alsm. Yudhishtira told him that since he was busy the beggar should visit him the following day. And the beggar went away. Bhima, one of Yudhishtira's brother, heard him say this. He quickly picked up a drum and ran shouting to the village. Yudhishtira was surprised to see him do this and asked "What is the matter with you?"

Bhima said, "I am going to inform the village that my brother has conquered time, because he has made a promise for tomorrow. I really did not know you had become master of time, but your promise to the beggar tells me so. Are you sure you will live tomorrow? Ar you sure this beggar will live tomorrow? Do you know for sure that tomorrow you will be in a charitable mood and give alms to the beggar? And do you know that you and the beggar will see each other again tomorrow? It seems you have conquered time and I should tell the village about this great event. And I am in a hurry, I don't want to delay, becauseI am not sure that if i miss this hour I will have it again."

Yudhishtira then said to Bhima, "Wait a moment; i made a mistake. he alone can make such a promise who has attained to supreme freedom. Call the beggar back so I can give him something right now. Tomorrow is really unknown."

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 23, 2012, 09:41:17 PM
Dear Jewel, my friend, what can i say. am just unable to express more than the picture below:

(http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/photos/restored_photos/full/CLO_14b.jpg)

i have wondered o many times before, the first verse from the 40 verses in Praise of Sri Ramana, which goes as follows (below) is full of ego, i used to wonder how did Sri Bhagavan sanction this verse composed by Sri Vasishta Ganapati Muni. As this verse would be chanted by thousands, in the days to come, i used to feel very guilty before to even chant this verse that dares to express that I bow to the lotus feet of the spiritual teacher, Rishi Sri Ramana, who showed me the Lord, shining, transcending darkness. How could i go about praying to Sri Bhagavan and sing praises him and express at the same time as "who showed me the Lord, shining, transcending darkness." i used to go in guilt trips, feeling so uneasy to even sing that second line, the tongue would even resist to dare to even utter such a prayer, because, it felt, without retaining ego, one can never sing, He showed me the Lord, Shining, transcending darkness. But Later, slowly, it came to dawn, that Sri Bhagavan has sanctioned this verse, and, it is out of great gratitude that one sings what is conveyed in the verse. What is required is to never forget that gratitude.

vande shri ramaNarSher aacaaryasya padaabjam |
yo me'darshayadiisham bhaantaM dvaantamatiitya ||

vande - I bow,
sri ramanarser - of Rishi Sri Ramana ,
acharyasya - of the spiritual teacher,
padabjam - lotus feet,
yah- who,
me - me,
adarsayad - showed,
isam - Lord,
bhantam - shining,
dhvantam - darkness,
atitya - transcending

I bow to the lotus feet of the spiritual teacher, Rishi Sri Ramana,
who showed me the Lord, shining, transcending darkness.

The very first thing that i happened to read today morning is the following verse from Guru Ramana Vachana Mala, 96:

Being himself exactly the Supreme Being, but thinking himself to be separate from Him, (man) strives to become united to Him; what is there stranger than this?



Dear Nagaraj,

You could not say anything better than this,then putting the picture of Bhagavan Ramana. It gives me such a joy whenever i see Him. Like there is some silent conversation going on,like He is my closest,my dearest Friend,Teacher and Father. When the True Love is there,there will be the graditude as well.
That last sentence which You wrote is something beautiful,coz we talked just about that yesterday. To me,many times happened that i have some question,or some thoughts,and the first thing i read,is exactly answer on it. I look on that like some sort of my conversation with Him.

Indeed,what is more strange than that.. The Absolute,wearing so many masks,is in search of Him self. When i think about that,knowing that All is That,such a play it is! And very complex and colorful too. What kind of potential than It have!!! I cannot even imagine.........


And, just want to say something more,regarding Your post Tomorrow. Truly,there is no tomorrow,only this moment is that what is important. What ever we do. Tomorrow may never come,and even if it comes,it is not the same moment,everything changes with every moment in this world,we change. So,everything we need to do,now is the perfect time.

Wish You All the best,my dear friend trough Bhagavan!
Title: prayer
Post by: Nagaraj on September 24, 2012, 10:02:07 PM
'O Mother! O Blissful One! Reveal Thyself to me. Thou must!' Again, I would say to Her: 'O Lord of the lowly! O Lord of the universe! Surely I am not outside Thy universe. I am bereft of knowledge. I am without discipline. I have no devotion. I know nothing. Thou must be gracious and reveal Thyself to me.'

(Prayer as taught by Sri Ramakrshna)



They say Bhagavan is Deena Bandhu, meaning, friend of the poor, they say, deena bandhu means, God is the friend of those who are poor, yes, he is, but i felt, Deena or the poor are the ones like us, who have all the qualities that are in contrast to that of the ideal, one is expected to be. We need not feel painful about the bad qualities that lie hidden only to the Selves. Seek the help of the friend, who is hailed as Deena Bandhu, He does not see the bad qualities in us, but he sees the love that we have within and lifts us up, up and so up, close to him, so close as there would be no difference there in.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: deepa on September 24, 2012, 10:16:36 PM

Nagaraj-ji, Thanks for the examples. And Subramanian-ji, for the beautiful Tamil verses.

I heard another example from a Chinmaya mission swamiji during a Dasa shloki lecture. When the reflection of the sun falls on water, it may be agitated by the waves or made ugly due to the dirt in water. People may throw stones or trash on the reflection. Some people may stop and admire it. If the reflection identifies with itself, it gets affected by all the agitation, praise, trash, etc. If, however, it knows it is a reflection of the sun.. it actually is the sun and is just playing in the water, it can play all day long without getting impacted by anything.

I am slowly getting to the stage where I am able to avoid agitation or if agitated due to habit, recover immediately. However, I am still unable to enjoy the game.. I feel at peace but don't feel joyful. How and when does that happen?

Pranams
Deepa



Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 25, 2012, 05:19:07 AM
Dear Deepa Ji,

the example you have quoted is apt, yes, the agitation in the waters does not contaminate the reflecting Sun upon it. whenever there is forgetfulness, there is samsara, and when there is awareness, there is ananda.

Title: Secret of constant joy
Post by: Nagaraj on September 25, 2012, 05:20:28 AM
A Zen Master was asked, "How do you live? What is the secret of your constant joy?"

He said, "Not much of a secret, when I feel hungry I eat and when I feel tired I sleep."

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 25, 2012, 01:34:25 PM
Quote
when I am hungry and dont get to eat, I do not eat!
when I am sleepy but have to do something, I do it!
The body does not cry, mind does not fight
and I take what comes and remain satisfied.

Agree all except second sentence :) . "Have to do something" can create issues. A jnani does not "have to do something". :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 25, 2012, 03:46:24 PM
Dear Tushnim Asanam

Doing cannot leave us unless we leave this world as unreal. Sri Bhagavan says only when lokavichram goes, Atmavicharam cannot
be done successfully,.

Arunachala Siva,.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 25, 2012, 05:17:13 PM
Quote
For example I have to do my duty in office

Fine. The problem is the one prefix here "MY" duty.

Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 25, 2012, 05:46:20 PM
Dear Tushnim

Doing is not a problem Sri Bhagavan did a lot of kitchen work after His Self realization in the Asramam.
'Doership', enjoyership, I am the doers; I am the enjoyer, is the problem/ The eradication of doership and
enjoyership should be cultivated by constant practice.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 25, 2012, 07:45:28 PM
Dear Tushnim,

Doership and enjoyership go away once a person acquires nishkamya karma, i.e. when one with dispassion  removes the ego
element out it. Once Sri Bhagavan was strolling on the Hill,. He took a branch of a tree that has fallen from the tree, cut it into
proper size. He polished it with herbal leaves that were available around. Soon a nice stick came into shape. Suddenly a cowherd
came on His way and asked: Swami, I have lost my driving stick for the animals. Did you find it? Sri Bhagavan replied: No, I did
not find it. But you can have this as your driving stick. The cowherd boy was happy and thankful.  A devotee who was walking
with Him had just then asked: What is nishkamya karma? Sri Bhagavan had answered without  any theoretical explanation!


Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 25, 2012, 08:53:05 PM
Subramanian sir has already nicely explained what I meant by "my" in my duty being the problem. Thanks, sir
Title: doership, enjoyership, nishkamya karma
Post by: Nagaraj on September 26, 2012, 12:24:35 PM
We should cease from interpreting these terms such as doership, enjoyership, nishkamya karma etc.. Mechanically and literally. One should discern and strive to imbibe the true spirit.

The essential nature of a human being is not complete without these special features, of being able to DO, of being able to ENJOY. A Human Being in endowed and blessed with intelligence and discrimination to chose between the right and wrong, the true and the false.
When we talk of non-doership, non-enjoyership, desireless-karma and all, what are we aspiring to be? Is this evolution? We need not be even born at all for this! What is a jnani without these special blessings? They say, Jnani is not the body, and body is not the Jnani, yes, it is all true, but we are taking these thoughts over the boundary in to some dry imaginations.

Desire, desire well, Do, do well, Act, act well. Experience, feel the pains and pleasures of the life, it is not great to be like a stone, when somebody out there, loved or anybody is struggling in pain! Oh, yes, Krishna says, i should be same in joy and sorrow, i should be the same, i should not cry when i feel sorrow and i should not be over joyous when i am happy, such interpretations are really disease, i would say.

Share the burden and joy of others; it is not spirituality to run away from these, to become somebody who is unmoved when sorrow and joy befalls. Have empathy, instead of sympathy.

True spirituality is to move on, not remain stuck in memories. Not delving in past and future. True import ought to be discerned. Otherwise, spirituality will become a neurotic disorder.

Nishkamya karma, work without desire, Non Doership, Enjoyership - all these terms are abused so badly and understood so badly that really wrecks one’s life.
I should work without desire, i should not expect the fruits of my actions, and i should work? What kind of evolution are we talking about? We are bogged by dogmatic understanding. We ought to live with full spirit, bloom like a flower full of life and colour.

Suppose, you studied very hard and yet you got 20 marks less than what you expected, then Krishna says, work without desire, accept what you get, that doesn't mean, you do not sit quiet, go for a revaluation, try all your options, if you are not happy and if you get more marks by it, good, if not, move on. If you are already ok, without even re evaluation, then it is fine and good, it may be so, you might get 20 marks after reevaluation, but when you are already content and ok, what matters?

And isn't it common sense to not brood over your efforts later when we don't get that 20 marks as we expected? Even after re evaluation, i should have done like that i should have done like this, and showing our frustrations upon others, being gloomy, etc... All these only mean not taking doership. These aftermath, we should be cool, Its ok attitude, move on, not make things bigger than what they really are. Ok, i have got less than what i expected. May be, next time, i can work better, we ought to pacify ourselves and move on.

Almost all sages, say, keep away from lust and money. Does it mean, everybody should stop stay away from them literally? Keep away from them simply because they say so? We should discern, i believe, earning lots of money is not bad, but we have to see that we are not behind it, it should be behind us, when you see somebody struggling, you should have the heart to share your wealth with such ones. The same applies with women as well. Some people are naturally blessed to not get married, and hence they are by default free from lust, but others, should not imitate, oh, he is spiritual and not married, i should also be like that, i should not get married, this will result negatively, one may keep thinking about women in his mind, while externally he will remain unmarried, instead, he may get married. Constantly thinking only about money and woman, to the extent that it camouflages ones real duty, is what is condemned.

Even if we have some bad quality, each one knows, one should be in control of it, that is, that should not lead you, you should be in a position to tame yourself in situations. Let the desries work themselves out. Do not force onto yourselves Desirelessness. Having Desires is not Less Spiritual than having no Desires. Even the so called Desireless ones also have small desires, those are joys of life, blessings of having a human body. Enjoy this body, do not condemn it. This body is a great boon! Use it well! live your life. fully. This is my discernment.
some musings...

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 26, 2012, 02:14:42 PM
Quote
Desire, desire well, Do, do well, Act, act well. Experience, feel the pains and pleasures of the life, it is not great to be like a stone, when somebody out there, loved or anybody is struggling in pain! Oh, yes, Krishna says, i should be same in joy and sorrow, i should be the same, i should not cry when i feel sorrow and i should not be over joyous when i am happy, such interpretations are really disease, i would say.

I share these thoughts. I have tried to do so but this just made me feel like I am trying be cold-hearted. Somebody I love dies and I say to myself:"O, never mind. He/she is just the mind, unreal and so on." Such cold reasoning makes me feel really bad. Why should I reason this way when my heart is crying and feel really, really sad and regretting that this person has died? Why am I doing it? To train be more spiritual? To show others "You see, I am strong!"? If it is so then what I am doing is just feeding my ego. When others cry for something or somebody and I feel like them I say "Don't cry" and even I shout at them to be stronger and not to act like a child. But why am I doing that? Isn't that to prove myself how strong I am, knowing how weak I am really? Even Lord Jesus has cried for Lazarus although He has known that Lazarus will be alive again. Why? Only He knows how many times He has cried for Israelites and their crimes and cold-heartedness. Why? Lord Ramana has cried in many occasions when His followers were crying in front of Him? Why? What do we need - 'religion of heart' or 'religion of mind'?
Quote

Nishkamya karma, work without desire, Non Doership, Enjoyership - all these terms are abused so badly and understood so badly that really wrecks one’s life.
I should work without desire, i should not expect the fruits of my actions, and i should work? What kind of evolution are we talking about? We are bogged by dogmatic understanding. We ought to live with full spirit, bloom like a flower full of life and colour.

What that means? How could I do something without desire? It is impossible. Even doing thing for God I do it just to make myself happy. Isn't that so? No matter why - may be because I hope for paradise or liberation or worldly things, no matter. The real meaning of non-doership and non-enjoyership is just to be happy with whatever comes. But isn't that enjoyership also? So the only way to do so is to just be. But how can I just be when I do my duty for family or society and again the question why am I doing it? If we discern carefully we will realize that we are doing it for our own sake, for our own happiness. We make others happy just because this makes us happy. How could we escape this endless cycle? We cannot. Only God can by His Grace. True surrender is not possible by just we wanting it. Everything begins with desire, continue with desire and finally if God choses and by His Grace the ego melts and what remains is God consciousness.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 26, 2012, 04:20:11 PM
It is not a weakness to cry, we are brainwashed since long to hide our feelings, this is the root reasons for the majority of diseases.

What i discerned is that, Nishkamya Karma  results when -

You are not in any race in life. For when we are in some race, it gives rise to greed, hate and so on and we tend to accumulate new karmas, more than what we can handle.

You do not believe that there is some other bliss existing other than the bliss you experiecne right here, within you, in what you do, in your very daily life. The bliss or enjoyment, (call what we may) derived out of doing a work or a duty well done is the same bliss of the Self. When you believe, the bliss or joy you experience is less, then you look for more bliss, some where else, and go behind a goal that doesn't really exist anywhere but oneself.

Not regarding ones station in life as inferior to spiritual scale. One is not superior than the other.

Do not live for others, live of self. Because, when you truly live for yourself, true to your principles and values, you will ever be happy and you will be a source of light and strength to people around you. All will be happy.

It is not sin to enjoy, be happy, experience joy, all forms of joy from what we call the worldly things. Things become "worldly" only when we live contrary to the points discerned as above.

Life is not complicated, if we have courage to live it, the way it is to be lived.

Lastly, do not ever judge yourself or anybody. learn from your mistakes, strive to better. Effort itself is Grace. The more we strive sincerely, the sincere efforts itself is Grace.

Then, who cares, if it is lived Nishkamya, leave it for others to judge, what matters when you are contented? if they say, you are Self realised, let it be, if they say, you are not, let it be.

Shanti is Self.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 26, 2012, 05:43:54 PM
"When you believe, the bliss or joy you experience is less, then you look for more bliss, some where else, and go behind a goal that doesn't really exist anywhere but oneself."

is this no so sir? if indeed there is no "more" joy than this, why would anyone desire at all ? that there is desire means we perceive that there is more joy in other things, isnt it sir?

WRT to the above discernment as expressed in my post, there is nothing wrong in desiring to experience joy in other things because, such a one will know, it is the same joy being experiened in another thing. Keep desiring, live your life well.

You may eat different sweets, but in the end, it is sweetness that you experience in various forms, in various flavors.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 26, 2012, 06:06:02 PM
sir if an object can make me happier and I cannot get that object how can disappointment be avoided ?

If you don't get something you desire, then you have to work out your obstinacy. you get what you sow. learn from your mistakes and better yourself.

Your answer is already answered in my posts, request you to kindly go through it deeply.

Quote
"You are not in any race in life. For when we are in some race, it gives rise to greed, hate and so on and we tend to accumulate new karmas, more than what we can handle."

"Suppose, you studied very hard and yet you got 20 marks less than what you expected, then Krishna says, work without desire, accept what you get, that doesn't mean, you do not sit quiet, go for a revaluation, try all your options, if you are not happy and if you get more marks by it, good, if not, move on. If you are already ok, without even re evaluation, then it is fine and good, it may be so, you might get 20 marks after reevaluation, but when you are already content and ok, what matters?

And isn't it common sense to not brood over your efforts later when we don't get that 20 marks as we expected? Even after re evaluation, i should have done like that i should have done like this, and showing our frustrations upon others, being gloomy, etc... All these only mean not taking doership. These aftermath, we should be cool, Its ok attitude, move on, not make things bigger than what they really are. Ok, i have got less than what i expected. May be, next time, i can work better, we ought to pacify ourselves and move on."

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 26, 2012, 06:25:34 PM
There is no ready made quick-fix solution. The answer to your questions lie within yourself. You have to sit and look at your self and the problem at your hand and discern yourself honestly, and arrive at peace.

One thing you have to remember when you sit to sort yourself out are the 3 important points give below:

In contemplation or reasoning, there are 3 aspects,


It is how you take your self upwards. It all rests in your hands. There are loads of spiritual book, and guidance of many Sages to grace you. It is all in your hands. The extant of your effort decides the result you are looking for.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 26, 2012, 07:00:50 PM
Sir What to discern ?
Please explain a little more.

        is not that obstinacy a direct product of how "dearly" we want the object ?
We want an object so dearly because it makes us better and happier. so there is obstinacy for that result.
so how can we handle obstinacy directly rather than handling the attachment to that object ?

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 26, 2012, 07:15:55 PM
:) is that not a discernment itself sir?

No, it is kutarka. If it were discernment, you would not be asking these questions.

such a one will reach no where.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 26, 2012, 08:23:52 PM
and, suppose it is a discernment as you say:

We want an object so dearly because it makes us better and happier. so there is obstinacy for that result. so how can we handle obstinacy directly rather than handling the attachment to that object ?

You have raised a question, not a discernment as you claim. therefore, your reasoning has to be completed. You have to realise that i am no way going to provide you any solution. You have a problem at hand, as to how to handle obstinacy, and you had asked how to handle obstinacy directly rather than handling the attachment to that object"

firstly, obstinacy is no different from attachment to that object, but only it is more fearce, if it is obstinacy.

there is one direct was to handle directly, as you hope for. That is absolute Surrender, unconditionally, accept what you have as the Lord's gift and question no more.

There are only these two ways. Sri Bhagavan said - "If one surrenders oneself there will be no one to ask questions or to be thought of. Either the thoughts are eliminated by holding on to the root-thought `I', or one surrenders oneself unconditionally to the higher power. These are the only two ways for realization."

without doing either of the above completely, you will reach no where, you have to complete your journey to reach your destination, nothing happens by stopping half way and hope for a direct way to reach destination, excepting the above 2 ways.

I want to make it clear, that, all i can say is, all solutions lie deep within yourself, and your solutions do not lie here. You have to dig deep within yourself and suit yourself, in which way you are inclined, either unconditional surrender or by  the reasoning yourself out, as revealed by the Sages over the ages across. Even otherwise, suppose you do not want to trust the words of the Sages, you would still have only these options. Or in case you discover something new, or have discovered something already, you may please share it in the open.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: deepa on September 26, 2012, 08:52:00 PM

Nice explanation, Nagaraj-ji.

If we are not able to contemplate and arrive at these insights ourselves, I feel it is better to completely surrender and have shraddha to guru and scripture. This may seem like blind faith first, but after this shraddha develops, one will realize on one's own that it is true.

As Nochur-ji says, when we try to analyze too much with our intellect, we get confused. When we let the teaching just permeate into us, it becomes clear.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 27, 2012, 12:00:18 AM
Quote
Desire, desire well, Do, do well, Act, act well. Experience, feel the pains and pleasures of the life, it is not great to be like a stone, when somebody out there, loved or anybody is struggling in pain! Oh, yes, Krishna says, i should be same in joy and sorrow, i should be the same, i should not cry when i feel sorrow and i should not be over joyous when i am happy, such interpretations are really disease, i would say.

Yes, the problem is in the interpretation! I think that Bhagavad Gita understood properly by the guidance of true Guru is enough. Bhagavad Gita is a 'handbook' (by this I mean a book which contains enourmous information) of all schools and teachings of all religions. So it really can be said that Bhagavad Gita is an universal Book, just like the Upanishads.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 27, 2012, 09:12:40 AM
Dear Hari - Bhagavad Gita is the most abused and misused book. Nowadays, Bhagavad Gita has become a "Management Handbook" with no spiritual sides :) to it. But people never ever ask even basics. Why is Karma Yoga only Chapter 3 - told at the start - and there are 15 more chapters after Karma Yoga? Like wise, understanding the structure of Gita itself answers a lot of our questions on what is superior, what is to be followed etc...

Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 27, 2012, 09:40:50 AM
In fact, the entire BG is over with Sankhya Yoga chapter. All the remaining chapters are only elaborations for the same.
Sri Krishna explained every type of Yoga so that readers could get hold of one as their favorite and pursue their spiritual
progress. One need not follow all the major yogas in full measure. One can stick to one Yoga and keep the others as a
supporting help.

Arunachala Siva.

 
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 27, 2012, 09:50:40 AM
True, Subramanian Sir. And the trick is not to FORCE yourself into one. You will automatically find your path, if you dont resist it with logic and mind. But we need to have the courage and conviction not to interfere that automatic selection with "mind" and "brain"

Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 27, 2012, 09:58:02 AM
Dear sanjay,

Yes. One cannot choose the Path. Path that is most suitable for you is shown to you.

Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Reality & Illusion
Post by: Nagaraj on September 27, 2012, 04:42:38 PM
MONK: “Where is the Reality in appearance?”
MASTER: “Wherever there is appearance, there is Reality.”

MONK: “How does It manifest Itself?”
MASTER: (The master silently lifted his stick.)

MONK: “But where is the Reality in illusion?”
MASTER: “The origin of illusion is the Real.”

MONK: “But how can Reality manifest Itself in illusion?”
MASTER: “Wherever there is illusion, there is the manifestation of Reality.”

MONK: “Do you say, then, Reality can never be separated from illusion?”
MASTER: “Where can you possibly find the appearance of illusion?”

Title: Love sustains Life
Post by: Nagaraj on September 27, 2012, 08:16:53 PM
I was on my way home from hunting, and was walking up the garden avenue. My dog was running on in front of me.

Suddenly he slackened his pace, and began to steal forward as though he scented game ahead.

I looked along the avenue and I saw on the ground a young sparrow, its beak edged with yellow, and its head covered with soft down. It had fallen from the nest (a strong wind was blowing, and shaking the birches of the avenue)l and there it sat and never stirred, except to stretch out its little half  grown wings in a helpless flutter.

My dog was slowly approaching it, when suddenly, darting from the tree overhead, and old black-throated sparrow dropt like stone right before his nose and all rumpled and flustered with a plaintive desperate cry flung itself, once, twice, at his open jaws with their great teeth.

It would save its young one it screened it with its own body the tiny frame quivered with terror; the little cries grew wild and hoarse it sank and died. It had sacrificed itself.

What a huge monster the dog must have seemed to it! And yet it could not stay up there on its safe bough. A power stronger than its own will tore it away.

My dog too stood still, and then slunk back disconcerted, plainly he too had to recognise that power. I called him to me; and a feeling of reverence came over me as I passed on.

Yes, do not laugh. IT was really reverence. I felt before that little heroic bird and the passionate out-burst of its love.

Love, I thought is verily stronger than death and the terror of death. By love, only by love, is life sustained and moved.

(AC Bradley, Oxford Lectures on Poetry)

Title: What is Life?
Post by: Nagaraj on September 27, 2012, 08:30:19 PM
Spirituality is also a web of miseries, if we do not really discern the real essence of it.



To suffer woes which Hope thinks infinite;
To forgive wrongs darker than death or night;
To defy Power, which seems omnipotent;
To love, and bear; to hope till Hope creates
From its own wreck the thing it contemplates;
Neither to change, nor falter, nor repent;
This, like thy glory, Titan, is to be
Good, great and joyous, beautiful and free;
This is alone Life, Joy, Empire, and Victory


(Shelley, Prometheus Unbound)



Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 27, 2012, 08:49:07 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Life is a glorious symphony once we know the sufferings/ happiness are only dreams that does not last long.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Realisation is not Dry
Post by: Nagaraj on September 27, 2012, 08:54:35 PM
Realisation, looking at Self, Being Self, and all the wonderful terms that are so often used is not a dry abidance. That is full of life force, that is tremendously connected with everything as One.

Gregory of Nyssa, a 4th century christian saint expressed it very beautifully:

When I see every hill top, every valley, every plain covered with fresh sprung grass, and then the various array of the trees, and at my feet the lilies, doubly furnished by nature, both with pleasant and with beauty of colour; where in the distance I behold the sea, to which the wondering cloud leads the way, my mind is siezed by a melancholy which is not without happiness; and and when in autumn the fruits disappear, the leaves fall and the boughs are left bare, we are absorbed in the thought of the eternal and continously recurring change in the accord of the marvellous forces of nature. Whoever apprehends this with this intelligent eyes of the soul, feels the littleness of man compared with the greatness of the universe.

What do we imagine, Sri Bhagavan was looking at Arunachala in stillness, is not something that is empty, dry, samadhi, it is an awe, in the Ashtakam he sings with great spirit:

Look, there it stands as if insentient. Mysterious is the way
it works, beyond all human understanding. From my
unthinking childhood, the immensity of Arunachala had
shone in my awareness....


We usually get so bogged with our own small spiritual world, while the universe is bubbling with life force, magnitude personified in various forms. If our spirituality doesn't give rise to this awareness of the greatness of universe, if it doesn't connect us with the massiveness of the universe, in its myriad forms, then we are on a wrong path.

Title: Re: Love sustains Life
Post by: Jewell on September 27, 2012, 09:35:08 PM
I was on my way home from hunting, and was walking up the garden avenue. My dog was running on in front of me.

Suddenly he slackened his pace, and began to steal forward as though he scented game ahead.

I looked along the avenue and I saw on the ground a young sparrow, its beak edged with yellow, and its head covered with soft down. It had fallen from the nest (a strong wind was blowing, and shaking the birches of the avenue)l and there it sat and never stirred, except to stretch out its little half  grown wings in a helpless flutter.

My dog was slowly approaching it, when suddenly, darting from the tree overhead, and old black-throated sparrow dropt like stone right before his nose and all rumpled and flustered with a plaintive desperate cry flung itself, once, twice, at his open jaws with their great teeth.

It would save its young one it screened it with its own body the tiny frame quivered with terror; the little cries grew wild and hoarse it sank and died. It had sacrificed itself.

What a huge monster the dog must have seemed to it! And yet it could not stay up there on its safe bough. A power stronger than its own will tore it away.

My dog too stood still, and then slunk back disconcerted, plainly he too had to recognise that power. I called him to me; and a feeling of reverence came over me as I passed on.

Yes, do not laugh. IT was really reverence. I felt before that little heroic bird and the passionate out-burst of its love.

Love, I thought is verily stronger than death and the terror of death. By love, only by love, is life sustained and moved.

(AC Bradley, Oxford Lectures on Poetry)



BEAUTIFUL! Simply beautiful,so touching and inspiring...
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 28, 2012, 04:49:11 PM
मानसं तु किं मार्गणे कृते ।
नैव मानसं मार्ग आर्जवात् ॥ 17


mänasaà tu kià märgaëe kåte
naiva mänasaà märge ärjavät

if one persists in asking, “What is this mind
of mine?” it will be found that there is really no
such thing as ‘mind’. This is the Direct Path.

वृत्तयस्त्वहं वृत्तिमाश्रिताः ।
वृत्तयो मनो विद्ध्यहं मनः ॥ 18


våttayastvahaà våtti-maçritaù
våttayo mano viddhayahaà manaù

What one has thought of as his mind is merely a
bundle of thoughts. All these thoughts depend
upon the one thought of “I”, the ego. Therefore,
the so-called mind is the “I” thought.

अहमयं कुतो भवति चिन्वतः ।
अयि पतत्यहं निजविचारणम् ॥ 19


ahamayaà kuto bhavati cinvataù
ayi patatyahaà nijavicäraëam

If one asks himself, “Where does this I come
from?” it will vanish. This is Self-enquiry, or
atma-vichara.

(Upadesa Saaram)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 28, 2012, 06:15:50 PM
Dear Nagaraj and Tushnim,

Saint Manikkavachagar says that he is slowly consumed by jungle of thoughts and suffers like a worm, eaten by
ants. He says: I am suffering, please take away my body to your feet, lest the Yama will consume me totally.
The gods and heavenly bodies have already got your Siva padam. Let me your lowly devotee also get that
great feet.   

Like big fish eat way the small fish, I am eaten slowly by the jungle of thoughts. O Lord with
Ganga and crescent moon on your head! O my gem, take me to your
Abode and save me.
Neethal ViNNapan - Desire to leave the body: tiruvachakam:

.றும்பிடை நாங்கூழ் எனப்புலனால் அரிப்புண்டு அலந்த
வெறும் தமியேனை விடுதி கண்டாய் வெய்ய கூற்று ஒடுங்க
உறும் கடிப்போது அவையே உணர்வு உற்றவர் உம்பர் உம்பர்
பெறும் பதமே அடியார் பெயராத பெருமையனே. 129

பெருநீர் அறச் சிறுமீன் துவண்டு ஆங்கு நினைப் பிரிந்த
வெருநீர் மையேனை விடுதி கண்டாய் வியன் கங்கை பொங்கி
வரும்நீர் மடுவுள் மலைச்சிறு தோணி வடிவின் வெள்ளைக்
குருநீர் மதிபொதியும் சடை வானக் கொழு மணியே. 130

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Self is not the Goal
Post by: Nagaraj on September 28, 2012, 06:49:34 PM
Dear Aryavarta आर्यावर्त (abode of the noble or excellent ones)

:) i am having to use the above term in the spirit of my musings below. I am just trying to bring a slight paradigm shift, in all our sincere efforts and prayers -

That which is Dharmic, will never bind one, but that which is Adharmic, will ever bind one. So, the Masters say, practice Dharma. Dharma itself is Self, Adharma is Non Self. If the desires are righteous how can it bind one, if the actions are righteous, how can it bind one. Then, the so called, mind, can never haunt such a one. Mana Eva Manushyanam Kaaranam Bandha Mokshah, Mind alone is the cause of bondage and liberation.

I am of the humble opinion, that we should strive to lead a Dharmic life, that which is good and right, whose conscience is ever clear, more than strive to attain the Liberation, Enlightenment, and so on, which actually i am seeing that it is actually being counter productive.

Prior to Buddha, the Vedic and the Upanishadic Seers have never propagated the Realisation of Self as a Goal at all. No where in the Vedas, can one really find any instruction anywhere, to go about and realise the Self, Atma. It is svatah-siddha or self-evident, already evident.

What eventually became to be known as Realisation of Self, or Jivanmukti is simply perfection in virtuous living, which is the annihilation of the following:

1. kama — lust
2. krodha — anger
3. lobh — greed
4. moha — delusory emotional attachment
5. mada or ahankara — pride, hubris
6. matsarya — envy, jealousy

Which put together is termed as the EGO -    अहंकार Ahamkaar

Therefore, in the name of quest for Self or the Lord, all that one strives to achieve is verily the annihilation of the above 6 doshas or faults. But, what is the use in the quest, if this itself is forgotten? The So called terms such as Self, Jivanmukti etc... are just terms used to refer the ones who have conquered the above Doshas faults. Devotees may refer the famous Vishwamitra and Vaishta Muni debates. Vasishta declared Vishwamitra as Brahma Rishi only when he could conquer all of the above Doshas.

The vedas extensively talk about, Aaryans आर्यन्, meaning the Noble one.

Therefore, it is highly possible that instead of striving to lead a truly Dharmic life, which the Vedic seers refer as AryAvarta आर्यावर्त sacred land of the Aryans. In the name of Self Realisation and so on, we are loosing some important wisdom in the middle and are getting caught in some endless cycle of samsara. And the interpretations of the words of Sages have contributed much to the spiritual buzz about enlightenment and so on.

Some musings.. for contemplation. Instead of the desire and a prayer to realise the Self, (yes, i am aware Bhagavan has said only desire to have is the desire of Self, but we must strive to discern the true essence, and not blindly go about it) one must strive to lead a truly Dharmic life, and when one is truly able to live, such a one is said to have realised the Self and so on. Such a one alone is truly an Aryan आर्यन्

So, when we are caught with any of the 6 doshas, we should be sharp enough to first know ourselves, that we are bordering in committing an Adharmic act, one should therefore, exercise various as advised by the Sages to primarily overcome the Doshas. Those instructions of the Karma Kanda of Vedas and the methods prescribed by the Later Sages, also fall under the Karma Kanda, Even the Self Enquiry, Bhakti, etc... what ever we read, all fall under Karma Kanda of the Vedas. It is natural desire for every one to know their source, where they are from, who they are, etc.. hence the Karma Kanda prescribes various procedures, through which one may have a darshan of the source, which we call God, Atma, Self and so on. But the Vedanta is the End of Knowledge. Enjoy, and desire to see the Self, Atma, God, in any form you may want to till your hearts fill, which forms the part of Karma Kanda, later when one is contented, on just is. He no longer desires to see or have a Darshan of Self Atma, as he is now ripened, Karma Kanda automatically drops over, he is now in the Vedanta, end of Knowledge. He realises the source of everything as the Self. Like Bhagavan sings, Atma SamSthithihi, Swaatma Darshanm. Being is having its Darshan. He no longer goes in search of his source, he no longer longs to have a darshan of his source, as He is himself the source. He reposes. Vedanta.

such an Aryan is a Jivan mukta.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 28, 2012, 07:23:53 PM
Sri Bhagavan says in
Talks No.

Devotee: What is the nature of Reality?

B: Existence without beginning or end. - eternal
    Existence everywhere, endless and infinite.
    Existence underlying all forms, all changes, all forces, all matter and all spirit.
    The One displacing triads. Reality lies beyond them.

Devotee: If 'I' also be an illusion, who then casts of the illusion?

B: The 'I' casts of the illusion of 'I' and yet remains as 'I'. Such is the paradox of Self Realization.

Talks No., 101:

You are always in the Heart. You are never away from it in order that you should reach it.

Because you are always That never never away from That. There is nothing so simple as being the Self. It requires no effort, no aid.
One has   to leave off the wrong identity and be in his eternal, natural inherent state.

Arunachala Siva.     
 
Title: Joy of Giving
Post by: Nagaraj on September 28, 2012, 08:06:52 PM
Friends,

I can guarantee you, that you would derive more bliss or happiness, from such small gestures (video) than that of some great, wonderful  discovery about Self... or having attained some great clarity about Self. Some of you may have seen it.

The feelings that trigger when you see this video is more real than the Self that we are in quest of. This is the Throb of Self. This is Everything. If we look at great Sages such as Bhagavan, Ramakrishar, it is these gestures that they so much tried to communicate. Sri Ramakrishnar has often commented against the dry knowledge. It is this ability to feel, that makes living species special. Celebrate life. Celebrate the Throb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kPkhJYXhZ8&feature=player_detailpage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kPkhJYXhZ8&feature=player_detailpage)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdYaJfU4IIQ&feature=player_detailpage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdYaJfU4IIQ&feature=player_detailpage)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 28, 2012, 08:54:47 PM
Quote
I can guarantee you, that you would derive more bliss or happiness, from such small gestures (video) than that of some great, wonderful  discovery about Self... or having attained some great clarity about Self. Some of you may have seen it.


Nagraj garu,

Yes. I had always been on it from when I can remember. But my problem is -

(1) the joy I get is temporary.
(2) I need to keep doing it to derive the joy and thus be obsessed about it
(3) There will be times in life when I am incapable of doing it (health, financial etc) and the joy goes. Because I cant do it once and feel the joy forever obviously
(4) The more I do, the more problems I see around and I am utterly unhappy that I cannot do even more and that cycle goes on growing inside me.

Any thoughts ?

Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 28, 2012, 08:56:58 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

The Joy of Giving.


Sri Bhagavan's Maha Vakyas are many:

See this one in His answer to Q 14  of Sivapraksam Pillai:


...All that one gives to others, one gives to one self.  If this truth is understood, who will not give to others?

Arunachala Siva,



Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 28, 2012, 09:07:31 PM
no complications Sanjay garu,

(1) i feel we should not intellectualise these gestures, ie. they are temporary and that it is good to avoid, such lines are against the will of Self
(2) The thing is not to keep on repeating it mechanically, it is more so, to be connected with the spirit of the univere, the power that sustains, everything, or we may say, it is to be connected with the Self. when this connection is like an unbroken flow of oil or a stream of water, it will be spontaneous, you will not worry, that i have to repeat it.
(3) When you are incapable, it will enhance your feelings, the feelings of being unable to help is great boon, that Taapam, of being unable to do is, is Pumsaam, great purifier. That Thrb, that life is more essential, whether your are being made to do it or not is not in our hands.
(4) we should not begin with an idea that i will go and help others, it is done in the spirit of now, and not hold on to the past of future. What is to be done by you will be done irrespective of our wish. As I said, it is more to be connected with the Throb. It is not the Act that is important. If you are unhappy as you say, if you look deeply, it is actually not unhappiness, but an intense yearning or a prayer to God, 'O God, why is there so much suffering all over' we are becoming more aware of universal consciousness, and are not just limited to only Self, family and friends.

We have to feel, that Bhavam is important. my humble musings.

Of-course, i am not saying anybody to stop any spiritual practices. But just that am saying, we ought not be bogged by only just self spiritual quest alone.

...my humble thoughts.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 28, 2012, 09:11:34 PM
Sri Bhagavan's Maha Vakyas are many:
See this one in His answer to Q 14  of Sivapraksam Pillai:
...All that one gives to others, one gives to one self.  If this truth is understood, who will not give to others?

Dear Sir,

how beautiful, and how better can one express this whole thing about giving? yes absolutely, that one gives to others, one gives to one self.

We have to be alive, we have to feel, be more open to the sufferings in the world, that yearning has to spring from with as a prayer, from the source, where everything originates.

Bhagavan's whole life is all about giving, infact, he has give more than Self Enquiry, SOLACE, he cried with those who shared their agony, he fed those hungry, he allowed a yearning dog to lick all his body, and did not even care to wash himself, he wiped a puppys mouth which ate extreta...

Its the throb, the feeling of being alive, of being able to feel - this is more important... this is the Self Throb.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 28, 2012, 09:22:24 PM
That cannot be spirituality, which makes us say, there is only suffering in the world so i want to realise my Self.

it will not work. We got to live our life and we got to live it well. Live like an awakened man.

WHAT IS AJANANA, IGNORANCE? IT IS FEAR THAT KEEPS US AWAY FROM SELF REAlISATION.

It is the fear of Samsara, fear of Death, fear of suffering, and so on, one self can add more things. We got to face the fear in order to realise the Self.

Samsara is simply fear. It is fear that moves the samsara, it is fear that is the reason for sufferings. and Love or compassion is the Self that sustains the world, the universe. Therefore, Love, or compassion or the Throb, is strength, Love of Compassion is Self.

Title: Neither Self nor Non-Self
Post by: Nagaraj on September 29, 2012, 10:32:22 AM
आत्मेत्यपि प्रज्ञपितमनात्मेत्यपि देशितं ।
बुद्धैर्नात्मा न चानात्मा कश्चिदित्यपि देशितं ॥


Atmetyapi prajnapitamanatmetyapi deahitau
buddhairnatma na canatma kashcidityapi deahitau

The Buddha's have make known the conception of self and taught the
doctrine of no-self. At the same time, they have not spoken of something
as the self or as the non-self.

(Nagarjuna)

Title: Ideas endless
Post by: Nagaraj on September 29, 2012, 12:54:02 PM
The guru's word is one,
ideas about it endless.
Sages and pandits exhaust themselves,
the Vedas can't touch its limit.

(Kabir, Ramaini)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: ramana_maharshi on September 29, 2012, 02:58:29 PM
Quote
That cannot be spirituality, which makes us say, there is only suffering in the world so i want to realise my Self.

it will not work. We got to live our life and we got to live it well. Live like an awakened man.

Dear Nagaraj garu,

how do you know it will not work if we want to realise the self only and does not bother about others?

Can you tell me difference between mother-theresa and ramana maharshi?
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 29, 2012, 04:09:23 PM
how do you know it will not work if we want to realise the self only and does not bother about others?
Can you tell me difference between mother-theresa and ramana maharshi?

Dear Prashant garu,

It will certainly not work, i am able to express with absolute convition because, the Self and the 'Other' which you intend to not bother are not different. Not bothering about others is actually not bothering the Self. When we are evidently seeing so much difference as to not bothering all other except Self, where can you find such a Self that excludes 'others'? Such a Self never exists anywhere. This is my discernment.

As regards to Mother Theresa and Ramana Maharhi, the only difference i can see, is that one is mother and the other is father, or i can say, one is Sri Ramakrishnar, one is Shirdi Sai Baba, one is Maha Periyava, one is Sri chandrashekhara Bharati of Sringeri, they call one as Christian one has Hindu, one as Kabir, one as Jnandev. They are the same Supreme Self in human form.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 29, 2012, 04:59:48 PM
I agree. Not "Bothering" WILL NEVER EVER BE POSSIBLE for one who is in quest of self. But whether they are as "expressive" as Mother or not so expressive reaching out to millions as Father - is dictated by Prarabdha. that is why we dont see "copycat Jnanis" - each one is different and did different karmas.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 29, 2012, 05:01:25 PM
Prashant/nAgaraj/Friends,

"can you tell me difference between mother-theresa and ramana maharshi?"

What a question?It will be more profitable to ask 'What is the difference between Mother Teresa and myself'?It will then be clear what nAgaraj has been trying to express,all along in this thread-what has been so wonderfully expressed by Swami VivekAnanda:
"They alone live who live for others;the rest are more dead than alive"
We know that we exist;we also need to live.Without living,self realization is a chimera.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 29, 2012, 05:03:34 PM
Of course, spirituality is not about "Living dead people" :). It is about those who thrive in joy even in worst.

Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 29, 2012, 05:17:39 PM
sanjaya/Friends,
Yes,Lord Jesus said so powerfully:'Let the Dead bury the Dead;Do thou follow me'.
What a life mother teresa lived!To have come from a different country,forsaking kith and kin,taking to a life of serving the Lepers and the Dying!!!
People balk at the prospect of wiping the  bottom and  of their own baby!They close their nostrils with a handkerchief!
Here Mother has inspired so many young and earnest souls to serve the sick and the poor;this often involved being soiled by their vomit and excreta.All this service is in the name of the lord.
The least we can do is to acknowledge the thyAga of these Gallant souls who have dedicated themselves to such service.This is also sAdhana and a very potent one as well.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 29, 2012, 05:41:12 PM
Swami VivekAnanda: "They alone live who live for others;the rest are more dead than alive"
We know that we exist;we also need to live.Without living,self realization is a chimera.

Of course, spirituality is not about "Living dead people". It is about those who thrive in joy even in worst. 

Yes,Lord Jesus said so powerfully:'Let the Dead bury the Dead;Do thou follow me'.
What a life mother teresa lived!To have come from a different country,forsaking kith and kin,taking to a life of serving the Lepers and the Dying!!!
People balk at the prospect of wiping the  bottom and  of their own baby!They close their nostrils with a handkerchief!
Here Mother has inspired so many young and earnest souls to serve the sick and the poor;this often involved being soiled by their vomit and excreta.All this service is in the name of the lord.
The least we can do is to acknowledge the thyAga of these Gallant souls who have dedicated themselves to such service.This is also sAdhana and a very potent one as well. Namaskar.

Friends,

Truly being in quest of Self, God, one will begin to experience emotional shifts of energy, as his consciousness is more open, not just limited to ones own family and friends. Somewhere something happens in some country, would begin to attract or extract your empathy from within, somewhere somebody throws a stone on some stray dog, it will attract or extract your love and compassion from within. Everybody becomes your people, your family, your-Self, finally. What happens to them, affect you.

The only way to know if we are really progressing in our spirituality is our ability to connect with others, to relieve others of their burden, pains and agony. Not even striving to provide solution, but merely listening them out, in understanding. What do the Guru, Acharyas or Bhagavan  have been doing all along, They simply listened to people. Listening is not easy. It is Everything.

Even the most precious thing one can genuinely offer God is ones own tears, and absolutely nothing else, and nothing else is really ours, it is only those tears that is true expression of the Self, Brahman, Atma, everything else belongs to body and world. Realisation should not supersede ones Dharma. Realisation is the fruit the Lord bestows on one who truly follows ones Dharma.

Title: Till life's test comes
Post by: Nagaraj on September 29, 2012, 07:50:08 PM
ಸರ್ವರುಮ್ ಸಾಧುಗಳೇ ಸರ್ವರುಮ್ ಬೋಧಕರೇ
ಜೀವನಪರೀಕ್ಷೆ ಬಂದಿದಿರು ನಿಲುವನಕ
ಭಾವಾಮರ್ಮಮ್ಗಳೆಳುವುವಾಗ ತಳದಿಂದ
ದೇವರೇ ಗತಿಯಾಗ - ಮಂಕುತಿಮ್ಮ

Sarvarum Saadhugale Sarvarum Bodhakare
Jeevanaparikshe bandidiru Niluvanaka
Bhaava marmangalelu vuvaaga Taladinda
Devare Gatiyaaga - Mankuthimma

Everybody is a Saint, Everybody a Preacher,
Till, Life's tests comes and stands in front,
Inner secrets of nature (vasanas) then rise from the bottom
God is the only refuge then - Mankuthimma

DVG says, Every body is a saint and a preacher, he refers to most of us, we read so many books and assimilate so much knowledge and go about as though we are Saints and also share our knowledge, could be so, even with good intentions. But all these confidence, in our knowledge of Self, Brahma Satyam JaganMithya, Brahmaiva Satyam etc... lasts only thus long, till Life throws upon us some testing times, then all the inner secret feelings (பதட்டம்    தளணம்) begin to sprout that were long hidden by those knowledges "Brahmaiva Satyam & so on" of fear, depression, under confidence, we begin to ponder and pray, O God why Thou test me so much? i cant endure this life,...  we wonder what happened to all our wisdom and capabilities. Then at such a time, Ayamatma Brahma, Brahma Satyam Jaganmithya all disappear and only God is refuge then - Thus says Mankuthimma.

DVG uses the word Talanam, the word is also in Tamil well, (பதட்டம்    தளணம்) infact, Old Kannada is very very similar to Tamil, with little effort one can assimilate the essence from the mula (Kannada) itself   

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 29, 2012, 09:09:40 PM
Quote
Truly being in quest of Self, God, one will begin to experience emotional shifts of energy, as his consciousness is more open, not just limited to ones own family and friends. Somewhere something happens in some country, would begin to attract or extract your empathy from within, somewhere somebody throws a stone on some stray dog, it will attract or extract your love and compassion from within.

Nagaraj Garu - Why is it that Bhagawan paid no attention when thousands were dying in World war? Just curious. I agree with what you wrore personally - but wanted to know this aspect. I have also heard something to the effect that when someone asked Bhagawan why he is so detachhed to the war which is killing millions - he said there is nothing happening or something like that.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 29, 2012, 09:57:58 PM
Sanjay garu,

The subject which has sprung has been the question over all ages, when so many killings were going on, what is the plan behind this? This is the one "space" or "corner" that tests even the more wisest and great Bhaktas, they fail to discern the ways of the Truth or God, they simply cannot grasp the ways. Lord Krishna could not stop the war. What could be said, if he willed what could not be achieved by him? he even indirectly participated in a war? What are His ways? mysterious, they are, which is why, in Russia, some groups are so confused, that they believed Krishna in Gita promotes violence and so on. But the fact is that Truth is much different from fact and Truth cannot be perceived by our normal ordinary eyes.

Upon reading your post, i was only reminded about the times Jnaneshwar and his Brother-Guru Nivritti. It was the times of tyranny of Muslim invaders, who tortured Hindus, destroyed temples and resorted in unreligious acts, of forceful conversion, taking away the hindu women and committed many atrocities that are unacceptable for any sane human being, who is simple and just even if not religious. I am reproducing from Swami Abhayananda's book, about such a topic, which was quite a magnitude as it seemed in the world war. Kindly read on...

“The wicked mlechhas pollute the religion of the Hindus every day. They break the images of the gods into pieces and throw the articles of worship into the garbage pits. They throw the Srimad Bhagavatam and other scriptures into the fire, forcibly take away the conch and bell of the Brahmin priests, and lick the sandal-paste marks from the women’s bodies. They urinate like dogs on the sacred Tulsi plant, and deliberately pass feces on the altars of our temples. They spit upon the Hindus engaged in worship, and harass the Hindu saints as if they were so many lunatics on the loose.

“With my own eyes, I saw them put a good woman to the test of faith. She had been accused of teaching the Hindu faith, and it was declared that she would be tried by having four large pots of water tied to her hands and feet, and then she would be thrown into the deepest part of the river. If she drowned, she would be ruled innocent. But she did not drown; somehow she escaped and made her way to shore. By the terms of this trial, this was taken as proof that she was guilty as a kaftar (non-believer in Islam). The naib-us-sultan then ordered her to be burnt. This I saw with my own eyes. Do you wonder that all our suffering people pray for the day when all of the Aryavarta will be free of these murdering fiends! But, my friends, God does not hear us. I fear He has forsaken us.”

All during the evening meal, the pilgrims were discussing among themselves what the old sannyasin had said. Jnaneshvar also pondered over what he had heard. He knew that all that occurred was ordained by God, was God’s own actions; yet he could not understand why the Lord saw fit to cause such pain and sorrow on the earth. Later, after their meal, as they sat round the fire, the old sannyasin spoke again:
 
“The times have become very hard in our country,” he said. “The Muslim tyrants with their ruthless armies of killers have taken the entire northern part of Bharadwaja, and have set up their kingdom in our sacred city of Delhi. Thousands of people are tortured and murdered daily. And I say it is only a matter of time before they cross the mountains and march on Devgiri itself. Then your people too will be slaughtered at Pandharpur, and your temples will be destroyed, your sisters raped and your children enslaved! Why should it be so, my dear friends? What can God have in mind to treat His people so?”

For a few minutes no one answered the old man; but finally, Changadev spoke up; “It is better not to question the ways of God,” he said. “The law of karma is impenetrable; but the causes of every man’s fruits in this life go back to lives before lives, and the cause of what comes to us now is buried in the deep recesses of the past, and cannot be known by the mind of man.”

“Yes,” said the sannyasin, “I know. I’ve heard all that myself. But look, if you go back to the causes of actions and you keep going back and back, mustn’t you eventually come to a beginning of all causes, and isn’t that God Himself? Eh?”

Jnaneshvar chuckled; “I think he’s got you there, dear Changadev; what do you say?”

“It seems to me,” put in the sannyasin, “it’s the noblest souls who suffer the most. Why? It’s the ones who trust in God, who are good and gentle — they are torn to pieces while the murderers grow fat, the liars get rich and the stupid grow more content. What of those good and honest men whom God tortures and drives to the river to drown themselves by their own hand in despair? What of the holy Shankara, or Isha (Jesus)? God tortures such men. He leaves them no place to sleep, with nothing to eat, with no friends to love and laugh with. And when they speak of God, they are beaten and despised among men. Is this a loving god, to make such a world? I ask you?”

Everyone sat quietly gazing into the glowing embers of the fire. Nivritti then spoke: “I think we cannot judge from the point of view of human values, whether what God has done is good or bad. It is as it is, beyond our feeble notions of good and bad; and in the end, when all the yugas are passed and we come to the end of the kalpa, all will be seen to be perfect in the beginning, perfect in its unfolding, and perfect in its end.” “Perhaps,” said the sannyasin; “but still I say that, if God’s world is one in which the good suffer more in proportion to their goodness, where the wise are reviled and the dull-witted are honored; where the gentle are persecuted and the mean are highly respected; where the seers are called ‘mad’ and the deluded are called ‘great’ — then God has done badly, and His world is not fit to live in.”

“That is one perspective,” said Nivritti; “but if He secretly upholds the good with strength in their sufferings, and gives contentment to the wise in their solitary lives, and fills the hearts of the gentle with the joy of love, and grants to the seers the vision of Himself, the knowledge and bliss of their own eternal Souls — then God has done well, and His world is a marvelous
world.”


The sannyasin remained silent. Jnaneshvar also said nothing. There was nothing more to be said; and so, one by one, the men wandered off to prepare their bedding for the night and to sit quietly beneath the stars, while nearby they could hear the voice of Muktabai, softly singing:

Rama Raghava, Rama Raghava
Rama Raghava, raksha mam
(Lord Rama, Lord Rama,
Lord Rama, protect me.)
Krishna Keshava, Krishna Keshava
Krishna Keshava, pahi mam
(Lord Krishna, Lord Krishna,
Lord Krishna, enlighten me.)



What could be said, like the saying in tamil goes, Arindadu Kai Alavu, Ariyaadadu Ulagalavu, what is known is just fistful and what is unknown is as huge as the world.

Sanjay garu, you know, this is verily the final test, on our trust of Truth, final test on our faith, that ceases to question the ways of God. We are nobody to question the God and his ways, we are not even an molecule or even the minutest of particle before the truth. This is the last bit of ego that needs to sacrifice itself before the Truth that is RUDRA, sacrifice of all knowledge, logic, all Rights as well. Not to question the Gods will. Ninnishtam en nnishtam as Bhagavan says.

I'll post yet another instance from Shirdi Sai Baba in the next post, which is thought provoking!

Title: Ordeal of Guru Bhakti
Post by: Nagaraj on September 29, 2012, 10:03:10 PM
Let us now see, how the second Cholera-ordinance fared with Baba. While it was in force, somebody brought a goat to the Masjid. It was weak, old and about to die. At this time Fakir Pir Mohamad of Malegaon alias Bade Baba was near. Sai Baba asked him to behead it with one stroke, and offer it as an oblation. This Bade Baba was much respected by Sai Baba. He always sat on the right hand of Sai Baba. After the chilim (pipe) was first smoked by him, it was then offered to Baba and others. After the dishes were served, at the time of taking meals at noon, Baba respectfully called Bade Baba and made him sit on His left side, and then all partook of food. Baba paid him also daily Rs.50/- out of the amount collected as Dakshina. Baba accompanied him hundred paces whenever he was going away. Such was his position with Baba. But when Baba asked him to behead the goat, he flatly refused, saying "Why it should be killed for nothing?" Then Baba asked Shama to kill it. He went to Radha-Krishna-Mai and brought a knife from her and placed it before Baba. Knowing the purpose for which the knife was taken, she recalled it. Then Shama went to bring another knife, but stayed in the Wada, and did not return soon. Then came the turn of Kakasaheb Dixit. He was 'good gold' no doubt, but had to be tested. Baba asked him to get a knife and kill the goat. He went to Sathe's Wada and returned with a knife. He was ready to kill it at Baba's bidding. He was born in a pure Brahmin family and never in his life knew killing. Though quite averse to do any act of violence, he made himself bold to kill the goat. All the people wondered to see that Bade Baba, a Mahomedan was unwilling to kill it while this pure Brahmin was making preparations to do so. He tightened his dhotar and with a semicircular motion raised his hand with the knife and looked at Baba for the final signal. Baba said - "What are you thinking of? Go on, strike". Then, when the hand was just about to come down, Baba said - "Stop, how cruel you are! Being a Brahmin, you are killing a goat?" Kakasaheb obeyed and kept the knife down and said to baba - "Your nectarlike word is law unto us, we do not know any other ordinance. We remember You always, meditate on Your Form and obey You day and night, we do not know or consider whether it is right or wrong to kill, we do not want to reason or discuss things, but implicit and prompt compliance with Guru's orders, is our duty and dharma".

Then Baba said to Kakaseheb, that He would Himself do the offering and killing business. It was settled that the goat should be disposed of near a place called Takkya, where fakirs used to sit. When the goat was being removed to that place, it fell dead on the way.

Hemadpant closes the Chapter with a classification of disciples. He says that they are of three kinds :

(1) First or best
(2) Second or middling and
(3) Third or ordinary.

The best kind of disciples are those who guess what their Gurus want and immediately carry it out and serve them without waiting for an order from them. The average disciples are those who carry out the orders of their Masters to a letter, without any delay, and the third kind of disciples are those, who go on postponing the carrying out of their orders and making mistakes at every step.

The disciples should have firm faith, backed up by intelligence and if they and patience to these, their spiritual goal will not be distant. Control of breath -- ingoing and outgoing, or Hath-Yoga or other difficult practices are not at all necessary. When the disciples get the above-mentioned qualities, they become ready for further instructions and the Masters then appear and lead them on, in their spiritual path to perfection.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 30, 2012, 05:55:54 AM
Dear Nagaraj,Prasanth,Sri Ravi,Friends, I would like to say something regarding Prasanth comment on Ramana and Mother Teresa. My answer is not inspired with their saying,coz,for me,both are following their own way and thinking,but with reactions on that. The way i see it,Prasanth didnt said anything offending,and i would like to see reactions if instead Mother name there was Osho name,would everyone ask for respect. I Love Nagaraj approach and think it is beautiful and inspiring. But one is what i love,and another what is needed or not needed. Not everyone can be missionar and not everyone need to. What if someone had life without freedom,and his way to realisation is to shun all bonds and restrictions? He will not serve. Even,if i think that Nagaraj didnt said that in the first place,but is talking about goodness,idealistic view,and also Prasanth didnt offended anyone,but follow his own way. Like Nagaraj beautifuly said,live,live free,true to your self,follow your way and your nature.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 30, 2012, 06:06:40 AM
Dear Friends, Just to add,not to put something which Nagaraj didnt said,not in that way anyway,i said folow your way and your nature. Nagaraj said live,live free,and for me,he have beautiful way and looking on life. That is not why i said all this,and i also believe that it is more important what kind of person someone is,than anything else,realisation too. But,i dont think everyone is like that,and i dont think that that can be chosed,but must come from heart. Also,i didnt saw anything offending there,and wanted to share my thoughts. And i would like that everyone should be respected in the same way. Only that. Not with like or not,but the way it is.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 30, 2012, 09:40:12 AM
Nagaraj Garu

yes. But the doctrine of Karma has so many holes in it like you pointed in Changdev story. But what Swami Rama says below seems to give it all a completely different tone - and this is so logical, it is hard to pick holes like as in Karma Theory on why all these happen.

From In Woods of God Realization Volume 3 Section 4 "Replies to some questions on Vedanta"


Quote
According to this doctrine of Karma, past actions have created the differences in your present circumstances. Then from this it follows that even in your past births, in your past lives there was a difference in your actions, desires, and whims. There were some who were sick, some who were poor, and some who were rich. To what cause were the differences in your past life due? The answer is that the differences in the circumstances in your past life were due to similar differences in the life before that. And to what cause were due the differences in the third life from this? They were due to the corresponding differences in the life preceding that. This doctrine makes the difficulty a million times more complex, because, according to this doctrine, we see that all your past lives, all your past births, even back to eternity, even up to the beginning if there be a beginning, differences are even there; there is variety and conflict all along. Now the question is not answered, it is simply made more complex. Now the question comes with even stronger force, and it stands like this: How is it that God from eternity should have kept up this difference? How is it that God from eternity should have made Himself rich at one place and poor at another? Why should He have made Himself diseased at one place and in perfect health at another? How unreasonable it is! How is this difference justified? The Vedanta says this was a question which it had to put to you, not you to the Vedanta. This is a question which you have to answer. The burden does not lie on the Vedanta. It believes in unity, oneness, and at the same time explains this apparent variety. 

For example if there was a tyrant, and he had before him five different persons, different from himself, that man being in the place of God, and those persons being his creatures, servants, slaves, and if this man put one of these slaves, into a dungeon, and another into a beautiful garden, and another into a magnificent palace, and another into the toilet room, and the last one all the time under a very heavy burden, and placed on his breast the mighty Himalayas, and kept them on his bosom all the time, what would you think of such a master? Cruel, unjust master! If God be different from his creatures, and makes one nation very happy and another very wretched, and if He makes one man very wealthy and another very poor, what will you think of such a Master? Cruel, cruel, unjust, unjust! This is now the question which those people have to answer who believe God is different from Mankind. The Vedanta does not believe God to be far away; one has only to close his eyes and see Him within.

Suppose there is a master who goes into the garden at one time, into the mansion at another time, into the dingy dungeon at one time, and into the toilet room some other time, goes into the kitchen himself, and lives also under a burden himself. What will you call him? Is he unjust? No, no. He would be unjust if the people whom he kept in the dungeon, in the garden, in the mansion, or in the toilet room had been different from him; but if it is he himself who resorts to the toilet room and he himself who goes into the other places, then he is not unjust. All the blame is taken off him.  Thus the Vedanta says this apparent variety, this apparent conflict, will be a blot on the face of God if God were different from the people who suffer and from the people who are rich and poor. It is God Himself; it is Rama himself;
Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 30, 2012, 09:49:36 AM
Dear Prashant garu,

A meteor disappearing or just vanishing into thin air like Ramalinga Adigalar, or a sun revolving behind their heads, these things are not the ones that help one know whether somebody is a jnani and these things do not determine a Sage's Mukti. When a Sadhaka is even pulled towards the path of Gods, even a little, he will know within his heart that such a being is Supreme Being. Even a strongest of egoistic person bows in humility before such a Paramatma.

There are so many articles written on how to recognise a Jivanmukta. Various complicated things are written, such as, they say, a Jivanmukta has dropped desires, he is like blazing Sun, above good and evil, mysterious, fearless, angerless, he is above 3 gunas, his state is beyond description, he will move like ordinary man, He has no Mine, I, duality, non duality, qualified duality non duality, and so many more, we can add on. This list can be endless. All these are quite tiresome and quite complicated. The question is, are we so evolved enough  to even notice and grasp these subtle aspects? If we truly could, there would not be any difference between the Jnani and ourselves.

You asked, how can we recognise a Jnani? can we? are we so evolved that we can recognise who is a Jnani or God realised person? How can one recognise a Jnani with the senses and a mind? It is impossible. That is why, living beings are blessed with Bhavam, feelings that sprout from heart. That of (He/She), in whose presence, your heart begins to melt like an ice filled with love, in whose presence, our minds bow down in humility, there our hearts rise and do the bidding, there peace permeates all over, every cell of our body is at peace, there is a sense of release, relief, as safe as being in a womb, security, one will be able to recognise a Mahatma, inspite of his ego, senses and the plays of mind there, one can know one is in presence of a Jivanmukta.

We can never recognise a Jnani through mind, but only by heart. That we have all some Guru, is a proof that we are blessed.

For, Truly, a Guru pulls one towards him only out of grace, out of compassion. And, even thought, we may be in search of a realised Guru, and find one eventually, (rather He pulls us), and when we do so, we actually are pulled and moved by his grace, not even by his realisation. I am sure, we are all pulled by Gurus like Bhagavan, Ramakrishnar, Shirdi Sai Baba, and others, only due to their compassion, love, grace, as a father, mother, and so on and never it is out of a recognition that such one is a Jnani, or a realised being.

Bhagavan said, only a Jnani can see a Jnani. Therefore, does it not mean, when we all see and know Bhagavan to be a Jnani, in those moments, aren't we also, not the same perfect Self? We have that within ourselves, we have the same nature here, hence beyond the senses and mind some force guides us, from within, what we call intuition, the grace of Lord itself that enables us to recognise the Paramatma. Avan Arulale Avan Thaal Vanangi, meaning, it is out of his own grace, that we are even able to worship his holy feet. I remember a wonderful quote of Goethe that helps to substantiate this:

Within the soul's pure place moves a spirit
unto a higher, purer and unknown
giving itself freely in thankfulness,
Reading the riddle of them no tongue can name


I truly believe that a Sadhaka's approach should be that everybody apart oneself is a Mukta:

Isavasyam idam sarvam yat kim ca jagatyam jagat,
All this is pervaded by the Lord, whatever is moving and not moving in this world.

When we, slowly strive to be like this, we are blessed with humility, our mind which distinguishes is trained to be humble. everybody out there is a mukta, everybody is my Guru, we get to learn and see the truth through everybody in some way or the other. Everybody is Guru Swarupa.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 30, 2012, 10:09:10 AM
Dear Sanjay garu,

i am not sure, if i really got a grasp of what you are asking. But, i felt like expressing as follows:

Since you listen to Guru Nochur's pravachanams, you would remember that, the Paramporul, like a mother, slowly and slowly, in order to feed the baby, keeps on telling various theories, and stories, like there was a horse with a horns and there was a barren woman, whose son sat on a white golden elephant, that flew in the air and crosses the 7 seas and so on... by which time, the child would have eaten its food, and the mother is happy, so is the child as well. Like these, for one who asks about creation, so many things are said, so that, slowly, out of this curiosity, that Paramporul, out of immense compassion, gives out various doctrines, and various interpretations various Gods, and so on, only so as to make the child finally eat the food of Jnana. Sanjay garu, there are millions of doctrines and theories, listen and read them so long, there is curiosity to know about creation and the ways of God. Listen to your heart, that knows more than any doctrine and theories, when the hunger satiates, what doctrines what theories and what logics? everything is burnt in the fire, not even the Vedas last then. The vedas themselves exclaim being unable to describe That which is. it bows down.

some humble musings.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 30, 2012, 11:28:42 AM
Dear Nagaraj,Prasanth,Sri Ravi,Friends, I would like to say something regarding Prasanth comment on Ramana and Mother Teresa. My answer is not inspired with their saying,coz,for me,both are following their own way and thinking,but with reactions on that. The way i see it,Prasanth didnt said anything offending,and i would like to see reactions if instead Mother name there was Osho name,would everyone ask for respect. I Love Nagaraj approach and think it is beautiful and inspiring. But one is what i love,and another what is needed or not needed. Not everyone can be missionar and not everyone need to. What if someone had life without freedom,and his way to realisation is to shun all bonds and restrictions? He will not serve. Even,if i think that Nagaraj didnt said that in the first place,but is talking about goodness,idealistic view,and also Prasanth didnt offended anyone,but follow his own way. Like Nagaraj beautifuly said,live,live free,true to your self,follow your way and your nature.

Dear Friends, Just to add,not to put something which Nagaraj didnt said,not in that way anyway,i said folow your way and your nature. Nagaraj said live,live free,and for me,he have beautiful way and looking on life. That is not why i said all this,and i also believe that it is more important what kind of person someone is,than anything else,realisation too. But,i dont think everyone is like that,and i dont think that that can be chosed,but must come from heart. Also,i didnt saw anything offending there,and wanted to share my thoughts. And i would like that everyone should be respected in the same way. Only that. Not with like or not,but the way it is.

Dear Jewel,

you words are heard and they are very true. But in the same spirit, nobody also took Prashant garu's question as offending as well. Every response is an act of compassion, and i believe, we all respect each other for who each one truly is. I am sure, none of us are in any way, in any spirit against this spirit. Everybody are children of God. We are all from the same source. colours of cows are different, but the milk is one, people, the nature, leaves, flower, water are all different, but the soul is one, it is the same love, compassion that connects everybody. I am sure, we all respect the different aspects of the same source. And only when this difference exists, without the string (soul)  that connects the difference, that it breeds samsara, it breeds duality, the love that connects every different aspect is seen to be different, then a discussion takes place, as a form of compassion to simply go beyond these differences. Lord Krishna states, he would take birth then ad where there is decay in Dharma, does that mean, he is going to come in a form which we expect him to? no, he will take birth in the form of the Truth in our exchanges, and in the end Truth alone prevails, we all have to bow before this Truth.

The response may have seemed a little offending, perhaps because, (without any wrongful intentions) this topic of discussion, this thread, is just continuing since where it was left in the past in the following posts, which i am not sure, you are aware:

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7047.msg28174#msg28174 (http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7047.msg28174#msg28174)

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6989.msg26503#msg26503 (http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6989.msg26503#msg26503)

So, therefore, this is simply a continuation of that discussion, i am sure, we all do not want to leave any hard feelings, of-course, the discussion has to continue till the cause unites at one common goal that is God. This is the cycle of birth, and death, which continues from where it is left, and is carried along, to the next birth, until to a point, where there is no more re-birth at all.

I am sure, Prashant garu, you would agree. We are all here, to uplift ourselves mutually, with exchange of views, only in-order that, it help us go beyond differences people may be.

I believe, no matter, how different each person may be, how different path, each one may be, no matter, how different, the concept of freedom may be, everybody is still connected with the fine thread of compassion and love which is the same Self, which can never be different, no matter what ever else is different.

with love to one and all,

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 30, 2012, 11:37:03 AM
Quote
"But the fruit of the Spirit (the Self) is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 30, 2012, 12:16:09 PM
Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna which is relevant to what we have been discussing-Namely Suffering in this world,compassion and God.I have posted this in the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna Thread and I am posting it here as well:
Why so much suffering in God's creation?
The Master explained the different kinds of samadhi to the devotees. The conversation then
turned to the joy and suffering of life. Why did God create so much suffering?

M: "Once Vidyasagar said in a mood of pique: 'What is the use of calling on God? Just
think of this incident: At one time Chenghiz Khan plundered a country and imprisoned
many people. The number of prisoners rose to about a hundred thousand. The commander
of his army said to him: "Your Majesty, who will feed them? It is risky to keep them with
us. It will be equally dangerous to release them. What shall I do?" Chenghiz Khan said:
"That's true. What can be done? Well, have them killed." The order was accordingly given
to cut them to pieces. Now, God saw this slaughter, didn't He? But He didn't stop it in any
way. Therefore I don't need God, whether He exists or not. I don't derive any good from
Him.'"

MASTER: "Is it possible to understand God's action and His motive? He creates, He
preserves, and He destroys. Can we ever understand why He destroys? I say to the Divine
Mother: 'O Mother, I do not need to understand. Please give me love for Thy Lotus Feet.'
The aim of human life is to attain bhakti. As for other things, the Mother knows best. I have
come to the garden to eat mangoes. What is the use of my calculating the number of trees,
branches, and leaves? I only eat the mangoes; I don't need to know the number of trees and
leaves."


Baburam, M., and Ramdayal slept that night on the floor of the Master's room.
It was an early hour of the morning, about two or three o'clock. The room was dark. Sri
Ramakrishna was seated on his bed and now and then conversed with the devotees.

Compassion and attachment
MASTER: "Remember that daya, compassion, and maya, attachment, are two different
things. Attachment means the feeling of 'my-ness' toward one's relatives. It is the love one
feels for one's parents, one's brother, one's sister, one's wife and children. Compassion is the
love one feels for all beings of the world. It is an attitude of equality. If you see anywhere
an instance of compassion, as in Vidyasagar, know that it is due to the grace of God.
Through compassion one serves all beings
. Maya also comes from God. Through maya
God makes one serve one's relatives. But one thing should be remembered: maya keeps us
in ignorance and entangles us in the world, whereas daya makes our hearts pure and
gradually unties our bonds
."

Sri Ramakrishna had this supreme gift of getting to the essence of the matter and presenting it in a way that can be translated into sadhana.He never bothered to get into the theoretical aspects which he called 'counting the leaves'.
Nagaraj here,in his musings, has been consistently emphasizing the compassion aspect.
As regards what Sri Bhagavan was doing during the world war,how is one to know?For this:
1.We need to know who Sri Bhagavan is!Is he limited to the Body that one saw in TiruvannAmalai?
2.Is his doing limited to what his Body was doing(may be reclining in that sofa!)or the words that he uttered or did not utter then?
To all these sort of questions,Sri Bhagavan would perhaps have said:'Find out to whom these questions arise'.In this way Sri Bhagavan is quite like Sri Ramakrishna,redirecting the mind of the seeker to the Essence,the 'Mango Fruit'.
Talking about 'Mango Fruit'(கைத்தல நிறை கனி)am reminded of how Lord vinAyaka with his lightning quick astuteness won the Game over his brother Lord Subhramanya and claimed the Prize (Mango Fruit) by going around pArvathi parameswar;Lord subhramanya ,although he travelled on a peacock to go round the world(trying to understand it-this is what it means)could not make it!
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 30, 2012, 12:29:18 PM
sanjaya,
The Excerpt from Swami Ramatirtha is wonderful .I have seen a similiar explanation by KAnchi mahAswAmi.
This is what the Lord Sri Krishna says in a different way in the Gita ,chapter2 verse 19:"Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain."
While the jnAni is beyond conflict of happiness and sorrow,and Life and Death have lost its significance for him,yet as the Lord Sri Krishna says elsewhere in the Gita,the Great ones ,to set an example to others are always involved in doing Good works.
For the sadhaka caught up in duality,compassion,mitigation of the sufferings of others go a long way in his self development and Realization.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 30, 2012, 01:12:26 PM
Dear Sanjay garu, Sri Ravi, friends,

with additional inputs by Sri Ravi, in his response to Swami Rama's post, yes, the Atma is neither a slayer or a slain.

The question is if we can sit in this abidance, without it troubling us, as expressed by DV Gundappa, in his Kagga (thread)

Everybody is a Saint, Everybody a Preacher,
Till, Life's tests comes and stands in front,
Inner secrets of nature (vasanas) then rise from the bottom
God is the only refuge then - Mankuthimma

This is the test, if we are able to live upto the knowledge that atma is neither a slayer or a slain in real, else, at least one must trust the ways of God which is mysterious and surrender to His will. I have conversed with others outside, somewhere they have this feeling that Bhakti is inferior to jnana, and they remain stuck in this knowledge and suffer with inner conflict, being unable to digest the truth as knowledge or are they even able to surrender to a Higher power, which seems inferior as they feel, there is no Higher power than the Self. They may not talk about it openly, as they themselves are not aware of it yet but the problem arises only when it is neither of the above, that is Samsara. That is Pain, That is agony of being unable to either abide in perfect knowledge or surrender to the Higher power. They also feel, that Bhakti and Jnana are conrary to each other, and Both can't co exist. Sometimes it would appear to me that Bhagavan was actually a great Bhakta and Ramakrishnar as a great Jnani. But the popular feel is the opposite! What can be said? they are both Jnani and Bhakta.

Either way, be it Jnana or Bhakti, Surrender is inevitable, the death of ego is inevitable.

Sri Ravi, wonderful post about, Master's word are so lucid, and clear.

Yes, I say to the Divine Mother: 'O Mother, I do not need to understand. Please give me love for Thy Lotus Feet.' The aim of human life is to attain bhakti. As for other things, the Mother knows best."

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 30, 2012, 01:26:18 PM
Nagaraj,
"I have conversed with others outside, somewhere they have this feeling that Bhakti is inferior to jnana, and they remain stuck in this knowledge and suffer with inner conflict, being unable to digest the truth as knowledge or are they even able to surrender to a Higher power, which seems inferior as they feel, there is no Higher power than the Self"

I just cannot agree more!This is something that I have witnessed over so many years.This is just a form of sophistry and is a great obstacle in Sadhana.I often get the impression that a common man in the street who salutes a piLLaiyAr statue in a way side  temple,as he walks past, is much,much more better off than these high brow jignAsus!
Sri Ramakrishna has said the same thing what DV Gundappa has expressed:
"The singing parrot, when at
ease, repeats the holy names of Radha and Krishna, but when it is seized by a cat it utters
its own natural sound; it squawks, 'Kaa! Kaa!'"

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 30, 2012, 01:38:57 PM
Friends,
I am sharing this, posted earlier in David's blog:
This is what the Great Grandma of a Sage Avvayyar says:

சித்திரமும் கைப்பழக்கம் செந்தமிழும் நாப்பழக்கம்
வைத்ததொரு கல்வி மனப்பழக்கம் நித்தம்
நடையும் நடைப்பழக்கம் நட்பும் தயையும்
கொடையும் பிறவிக் குணம்


Chithiramum Kai Pazhakkam Senthamizhum Naapazhakkam
Vaithadhor Kalviyum Manappazhakkam Niththam
Nadaiyum Nadaipazhakkam Natpum Dhayaiyum
Kodaiyum Piravi Gunam



meaning, The finest art is the practice of the hand; The eloquence in Tamil literature is the practice of the tongue; The greatness of learning is the practice of the mind; The nobility of behaviour is by the practice of being nobly behaved. The ones that are inborn are - friendly attitude,Compassion and Benevolence.

The More we express these inborn qualities,the more and more they manifest and take us to the very source of these qualities,the Self.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 30, 2012, 02:22:07 PM
Dear Ravi,

Sri Bhagavan said: Bhakti is Jnana Mata. Both come by constant practice. When Sri Arunachala Stuti Panchakam was written,
Sri Bhagavn was already self realized. Still He poured Bhakti into those wonderful poems.

Arunachala Siva.












Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 30, 2012, 03:11:10 PM
Dear Nagaraj,dear Sri Ravi, I agree with those views,about commpasion,love and tolerance for everything and everyone is one noble and ultimate goal. Absolutelly! I only dont agree that is Must for realisation,coz many people develop that kind of qualities in the way. I see many people from my suroundings,and i see that you cant force anything,and dont need to,on them. That is Ultimate goal,but it cant be must. Ultimate goal is freedom to,and freedom to let everyone chose his way of worship,path,is essence of freedom at all. Dear Nagaraj,i didnt think that I should be respected,but All people,And All Great Souls. I am not important. Also,commpasion,the real one,must be True,not pretension. Because,i see many people,everywhere talk about that,and cant do one simple thing,and that is to be commpationate to people around them. It is something beautiful,to be commpationate,but it must be EVERY DAY living,and not Only Idea. We cannot ask for it,but to initiate that trough exsample. I am talking about that only.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 30, 2012, 03:19:13 PM
All that,because,Freedom dont have the price. We can want that people should be kind,and good and tolerant,but we cannot Ask for it like must. I only wanted to stress that,and that it should be Real and True,not pretension,and not with force. That is my thinking. Coz every must,goes in other direction. Dear Nagaraj,You didnt even said that,but i felt i need to add one more aspect in. So,in essence,i agree with your views,but think it is not whole Truth.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 30, 2012, 03:39:10 PM
Dear Jewell,

Once V. Ganesan the eldest son of Sri Venkataraman, former President of Sri Ramanasramam, was a young boy of one year,
he used to come to the Hall with his parents.  As soon as left on the floor, he used to walk wobbling and try to climb the sofa
on which Sri Bhagavan was sitting. The attendants used to lift him and put him back. One day, Sri Bhagavan observed this and told
the attendants not to disturb the young boy. With great determination, the boy climbed the sofa and sat on the lap of Sri Bhagavan
with a smile!! 

Srii Bhagavan told the devotees: See what makes a human being to achieve the goal? One is determination about the goal  regardless
of obstacles. Two, perseverance against great odds. This truth also holds good for self surrender and self inquiry. Give freedom to
people and curtail them only when they go astray. Otherwise don't obstruct the path!

Arunachala Siva.             
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 30, 2012, 04:16:29 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian,sir, I agree completely!!! Dear friends,just one thought more on this. I am trying only to give realistic view on Sanatana Dharma,and right living. That is Beautiful approach,it is Good ideal,but not so applyiable in reality. If it can be,then every religion would make people and the world,the perfect by now. It is good,like,this is good,this is not,more for "ordinary" people,to make them more considerate,but for someone who is in search for truth,there is something more then only that. It cant be forced,and it dont need to be. And it is not necesary for realisation to serve,or be missionare. We can serve in many ways,and the reason behind that must be noble,true,not only act. Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 30, 2012, 04:34:24 PM
jewell,
"Also,compassion,the real one,must be True,not pretension"
Everything, if it is not genuine,is of no use.Truthfulness is the Basic Requirement.If compassion is not present,one has to be aware of it!This very awareness will help one find it.It is very important to discover this in oneself and express it.The more and more one expresses this,the more spontaneous and natural it becomes.If there is one genuine person,that will inspire others to follow suit and it can spread to the neighbourhood as well.The more we cherish a quality and live it,the more it will grow.
The other thing that I would add is that compassion cannot be equated to 'Being nice and Sweet'.Compassion can manifest as sternness-in disciplining those we love.
It is very important to be truthful and if necessary,call a spade a spade,and not flinch.This may hurt!and this hurt is also a blessing.He who is a seeker of Truth should be able to handle this chastising as well,on his part if he or she happens to be at the receiving end!Those who follow the path of jnAna or self-enquiry has to find this equanimity to take praise and Blame,and take it as an opportunity to introspect when they receive such a beating!If they wince or demurr,it is clear they are not yet ready.It means that he does not have titiksha(enduring the pairs of opposites like pleasure &pain,Praise & Blame).
Even here in this forum,if we say something Strongly,it has its ripples!Then follows a series of explanations ,apologies,not wanting to hurt even unintentionally,etc!Or there is a Recoil,that one wants to withdraw,or goes into one's shell,etc.
For a seeker,if he or she is not in a position to handle some uncomfortable moments in a forum,how does such a one hope to eliminate his 'ego' sense?what is the 'self-enquiry' such a one is doing,other than possibly imagining that 'Ego' is not there,while all along it is only that which is surviving!
When one has compassion,one will not feel the hurt.
Compassion is not for preaching or demonstrate as some outward standard of behaviour.It is the indication that we are getting rid of the boundary of 'I' and 'mine' by expanding it beyond our kith and kin.This happens as we deepen our sadhana.It is absolutely necessary to see that we grow in compassion.otherwise,and it is for everyone of us to see whether it is there in us or not.It is not to see outside and count- 'X' has it ,'Y' does not have it and 'Z' is developing it,etc.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 30, 2012, 05:44:29 PM
Dear Sri Ravi, I cannot help to notice,sir,that You dont understand what i want to convey. Your thinking is that i am saying all this because of my own life and living. It is not so! It is not subjective at all! And i believe that prase and blame You,sir should be able to accept more,than i do. But i dont see that. I can accept autority,but it must be same for everyone,not with like or dislake. You cannot ask me to trust your views blindly. It is not right. How can i trust You sir? I dont know anything about You,and how can i take those words like ultimate truth? It is not right for me.
Title: Selected quotes from Ramana Gita
Post by: Nagaraj on September 30, 2012, 06:47:59 PM
Some selected quotes from Sri Ramana Gita:


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 30, 2012, 08:55:17 PM
Jewell,
"How can i trust You sir? I dont know anything about You,and how can i take those words like ultimate truth? It is not right for me"
 Please do not trust me.I have never asked you to!Did I?I have just said that we need to examine ourselves and not look outside to find what compassion is.
I give the words of Great ones and rarely use my views,as I understand that will be just a babble.

"And i believe that prase and blame You,sir should be able to accept more,than i do. But i dont see that"

Yes,Please give me all the brickbats from Captain Haddock'(Tintin). :)

Please see the reaction !One time it is 'Dear,Dear Ravi' and another time it is 'Stranger Ravi,not worth Trusting'!This is how the mind oscillates. :)

This is how human relationships are!This is the reason why the Great ones teach us to look behind this facade,even if it be our spouse,child and trust in God only.It is God alone who is in everyone and it is this aspect that we should be serving, be it our spouse,Children,Friends,or anyone else.If we have this attitude,nothing will hurt us.

Wishing you the Very Best.

Namaskar.



Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 30, 2012, 09:40:55 PM
Jewell/Friends,
To lighten things up,here is a humorous yet instructive story that Sri Ramakrishna narrates in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Unreality of all worldly relationships

"A guru said to his disciple: 'The world is illusory. Come away with me.' 'But, revered sir,'
said the disciple, 'my people at home-my father, my mother, my wife-love me so much.
How can I give them up?' The guru said: No doubt you now have this feeling of "I" and
"mine" and say that they love you; but this is all an illusion of your mind.
I shall teach you
a trick, and you will know whether they love you truly or not.' Saying this, the teacher gave
the disciple a pill and said to him: 'Swallow this at home. You will appear to be a corpse,
but you will not lose consciousness. You will see everything and hear everything. Then I
shall come to your house and gradually you will regain your normal state.'

"The disciple followed the teacher's instructions and lay on his bed like a dead person: The
house was filled with loud wailing. His mother, his wife, and the others lay on the ground
weeping bitterly. Just then a brahmin entered the house and said to them, 'What is the
matter with you?' 'This boy is dead', they replied. The brahmin felt his pulse and said: 'How
is that? No, he is not dead. I have a medicine for him that will cure him completely.' The
joy of the relatives was unbounded; it seemed to them that heaven itself had come down
into their house. 'But', said the brahmin, 'I must tell you something else. Another person
must take some of this medicine first and then the boy must swallow the rest. But the other
person will die. I see he has so many dear relatives here; one of them will certainly agree to
take the medicine. I see his wife and mother crying bitterly. Surely they will not hesitate to
take it.'
"At once the weeping stopped and all sat quiet. The mother said: 'Well, this is a big family.
Suppose I die; then who will look after the family?' She fell into a reflective mood. The
wife, who had been crying a minute before and bemoaning her ill luck, said: 'Well, he has
gone the way of mortals. I have these two or three young children. Who will look after
them if I die?'
"The disciple saw everything and heard everything. He stood up at once and said to the
teacher: 'Let us go, revered sir. I will follow you.' (All laugh.)

"Another disciple said to his teacher: 'Revered sir, my wife takes great care of me. It is for
her sake that I cannot give up the world.' The disciple practised hathayoga. The teacher
taught him, too, a trick to test his wife's love. One day there was a great wailing in his
house. The neighbours came running and saw the hathayogi seated in a posture, his limbs
paralysed and distorted. They thought he was dead. His wife fell on the ground, weeping
piteously: 'Oh, what has befallen me? How have you provided for our future? Oh, friends, I
never dreamt I should meet such a fate!'
"In the mean time the relatives and friends had brought a cot to take the corpse out. But
suddenly a difficulty arose as they started to move it. Since the body was twisted and stiff,
it could not be taken out through the door. A neighbour quickly brought an axe and began
to chop away the door-frame. The wife was crying bitterly, when she heard the sound of the
axe. She ran to the door. 'What are you doing, friends?' she asked, still weeping. The
neighbour said, 'We can't take the body out; so we are chopping away the door-frame.'

" 'Please', said the wife, 'don't do any such thing. I am a widow now; I have no one to look
after me. I have to bring up these young children. If you destroy this door, I shall not be
able to replace it. Friends, death is inevitable for all, and my husband cannot be called back
to life. You had better cut his limbs.' The hathayogi at once stood up. The effect of the
medicine had worn off. He said to his wife: ' You evil one! You want to cut off my hands
and feet, do you?' So saying, he renounced home and followed his teacher. (All laugh.)

Human Relations are like this.Our relationship with God alone is lasting.He alone is our Mother,Father,Friend,self.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 30, 2012, 11:04:06 PM
Dear Sri Ravi, You are always Dear Ravi! I dont know what made You sir think that You are the Strange one? It is Your own interpretation,trough Your mind prism. Dear Ravi,i dont agree with You,is not Ravi,You are bad! My thinking of You sir will NEVER change on worse,it is only my thinking of Your THINKING. It is the Huge difference! If i take from You,i mean on learning,advice,it must be legitimite. Your words sir,have much more value then of any other,and more responsability with it. I never had problem with Sri Ravi,but with his views.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 30, 2012, 11:13:53 PM
Dear Ravi, I cannot hate You sir!! Never! I only dont agree. And i believe You,sir look on that like on disrespect. But it is not!! I will always respect You,but i dont have any other way to say that i dont agree. What is left is only not to say anything. But,i believe it is not right. I dont hate anyone here,how could i?! But i dont agree with everyone. I dont think sir that You have any bad intention! But,i just wish that You dont think that i have one. It is Not so!!! Wish You All the Best!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 30, 2012, 11:27:00 PM
Jewell,
Ravi is just a name and Ravi ,the person is not of any consequence.Please do not inconvenience yourself thinking that I will take you amiss.I do not take any offence.Criticisms only help us to see for ourselves where we are and if there is substance in it,we correct ourselves;If not we set them aside.
Did you understand what I have said Regarding Compassion?This is all that Matters.If not ,what is the problem with that view.Just what is not acceptable?No authority involved in this.
I have addressed that post to you but the content in that is generic and applicable to all,including what I have said regarding the 'Ripples' :)
This is true of not just the few here but a Great majority of people do not take criticism well.They immediately start reacting.If it is an official or social response,I will avoid pointing this out.We are not here  for a Kitty party!We are here to exchange our appreciation of what we understand as spiritual outlook.We need to have a free and honest and sometimes undiluted exchange.I am blunt sometimes and I know when I am. :)
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on September 30, 2012, 11:42:26 PM
Dear Sri Ravi, Honest exchange is what i want from the first day. That is not problem. Only sir,You cannot make assumptions about someone,and take that like answer. If You said something right,i would take it. I wont be happy,but i would take it. Sir,You dont know me,and all that,betwean lines,are harsh assumptions. I am not here for party! Thats why,Exsactly,i dont want someone thouch my Ideals! They are taking me trough all journey,and You can say something to me,but should not ask that i accept Yours view. Respect dasnt have anything with that! Because,i didnt came for party!! I Wish You All the Best!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 30, 2012, 11:44:25 PM
Quote
Everything, if it is not genuine ,is of no use.Truthfulness is the Basic Requirement.

Today a friend of mine told me: "I am an egoist and I am not ashamed of that!". He was very truthful. But there are people who (I know such) who always go to churches and give money, give food to the poor sometimes and so on. Are they doing it from pure love? Aren't they doing it because they believe that such actions would bring success to their family, in their job and so on. Isn't that also egoism? So saying "I am egoist" and covering it by statements like "O, I am good person. I love everyone because everyone is God's child" - isn't that the same?

Ans secondly - Who is "better"? These people or a jnani in the cave whose ego is dead and does not do anything? Isn't the mere presence of the jnani in this world more valuable than all "good" egoistic deeds of all the ignorant people? I am just curious of your opinion.

Best wishes, Hari
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 30, 2012, 11:50:22 PM
Jewell,
Again!Why are you so defensive as if whatever I have stated have 'Jewell' in mind.Whatever I have stated is true for all of us.Please Focus on 'What' and not on 'who'.
In general I have seen Males focus on 'What' and Females focus on 'Who'.
I have not made any assumptions about you. :)
What is it about compassion that you did not agree with?
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 01, 2012, 12:01:16 AM
Dear Sri Ravi, I am not deffensive for Jewell,but for her Ideals,which are her Guru ideals! Thats why it is sacred! I agree on commpation,but not that it is something which someone can chose. And that is NOT because of my way of living!!! I can do that! But,some other man cant just chose to be good. Your view is right,but not the only one true! I already said everything in my posts. It seems that we just dont understand eachother... I dont know how else to explane what i mean sir. Wish You All the Best!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 01, 2012, 12:04:22 AM
Hari,
"Isn't the mere presence of the jnani in this world more valuable than all "good" egoistic deeds of all the ignorant people? I am just curious of your opinion."

Indeed yes.Are we discussing the State of a JnAni or are we discussing the Role of Compassion as an important element in Sadhana?The Truthfulness that I have mentiones is with regard to that.
In the case of your friend as well,Truthfulness will eventually pay.He atleast sees himself for what he is,an Egotist.If at any point in time,he comes to understand the limitations,he is in a much better position to cope up with that than someone who is 'pretending ' that he is not an Egoistic person.
Truthfulness always pays.Moreover Truthfulness is not something that is a matter of convenience.Will your friend be Truthful in the same way if by doing so,he stands to lose a million dollars!This is what Truthfulness is all about.It should permeate the whole of life and not be used for only a part of it.

This is what Sri Ramakrishna says:
"When I renounced everything with an offering of flowers at the Lotus Feet of the Mother,
I said: 'Here, Mother, take Thy holiness, take Thy unholiness. Here, Mother, take Thy
dharma, take Thy adharma. Here, Mother, take Thy sin, take Thy virtue. Here, Mother, take
Thy good, take Thy evil. And give me only pure bhakti.' But I could not say, 'Here, Mother,
take Thy truth, take Thy falsehood.
'

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 01, 2012, 12:06:08 AM
Jewell,
"I am not deffensive for Jewell,but for her Ideals,which are her Guru ideals! Thats why it is sacred!"
Friend,Wish you the Very Best.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on October 01, 2012, 12:16:38 AM
Quote
Indeed yes.Are we discussing the State of a JnAni or are we discussing the Role of Compassion as an important element in Sadhana?

This was not my point but my example is relevant even for that. My friend admitted that he is not compassionate and love himself most. The people who go to churches, give money and food to the poor are also not compassionate but they are trying to be. How could one become compassionate? Can compassion be achieved by self-hypocricy and hypocricy? How to become compassionate? This is more important question than the dry philosophical dialogues about compassion.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 01, 2012, 12:29:23 AM
Dear Hari, That is something which i try to say from the begining! Only that! Not that i dont want or like commpation,but whether that can be chose or not. Or,say that people should be commpationate,but say how also. And that,for me,that can be possible only trough introspection,and self inquiry. At least,to have some result fast,faster then any other way. I agree with Sanatana Dharma,but not that it is first thing to do,necesary. Everyone will come to commpation trough self inquiry in the end. That is my view. Only,it need to be real,and introspection is one way.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 01, 2012, 12:34:07 AM
I was saying that it is more important reason behind,than deed. I didnt say it wont help,but commpation is not cause to chose path of realisation,but its bio product,effect.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 01, 2012, 12:43:12 AM
Dear Sri Ravi,friend, Thank You! Wish You All the Best from All my Heart!!!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 01, 2012, 05:32:11 AM
Friends,

I think, things have gone absolutely out of context. What was being communicated is that as a person evolves further in Self, the more, compassion, friendliness, equanimity, etc.. all these come automatically as a byproduct for the one whose consciousness just grows and grows further, and not just limited to ones own family and friends.

Patanjali says in his Yoga Sutra:

मैत्रीकरुणामुदितोपेक्षाणां सुखदुखःपुन्यविषयाणां भावनापश्चित्तप्रसादनम्
maitrî-karuñâ-muditopekæâñâä sukha-duïkha-puñyâpuñya-viæayâñâä bhâvanâtaå citta-prasâdanam

Consciousness settles as one radiates friendliness, compassion, delight, and equanimity toward all things, whether pleasant or painful, good or bad, as one practices and strives to abide constantly as the knowledge is discerned.

Sri Bhagavan also says:

I have said that equality is the true sign of jnana. The very term equality implies the existence of differences. It is a unity that the jnani perceives in all differences, which I call equality. Equality does not mean ignorance of distinctions. When you have the realisation you can see that these differences are very superficial, that they are not at all substantial or permanent, and what is essential in all these appearances is the one truth, the real. That I call unity. You referred to sound, taste, form, smell, etc. True, the jnani appreciates the distinctions, but he always perceives and experiences the one reality in all of them. That is why he has no preferences. Whether he moves about, or talks, or acts, it is all the one reality in which he acts or moves or talks. He has nothing apart from the one supreme truth. - Sri Ramana Maharshi, from Be as you are

Therefore, Compassion, is not something you can chose, it has to come from within. No compulsions to anybody about doing good to the society, or join or open a missionary and set up an organisation. I don't thing anything has been said anywhere.

Unpleasantness is created when Souls such as Mother Theresa Mahatma Gandhi have taken a beating. But, it is fine. They are such big souls, and they only engulf everybody with their love and compassion and love. No matter how a child is, the Mother still loves it. Was it a question about realisation? no not even that, it was a question of Humanness, primarily. Nobody is bound to force on to themselves, the "Joy of Giving" we just share here, what touches our hearts, and we take it if it touches our hearts or else, there is no compulsion.

Compassion, love is not some object somebody can chose, it is a Gift from God. If we want to say, then it is a product of the Soul, not of Mind and Senses. One True Self only generates Love and Compassion.

Title: Bhagavan on Love
Post by: Nagaraj on October 01, 2012, 07:34:49 AM
One who renounces desires actually merges in the world and expands his love to the whole universe. Expansion of love and affection would be a far better term for a true devotee of God than renunciation, for one who renounces the immediate ties actually extends the bonds of affection and love to a wider world beyond the borders of caste, creed and race.

A sannyasi who apparently casts away his clothes and leaves his home does not do so out of aversion to his immediate relations but because of the expansion of his love to others around him. When this expansion comes, one does not feel that one is running away from home, instead one drops from it like a ripe fruit from a tree. Till then it would be folly to leave one's home or job.



Question: Swami, it is good to love God, is it not? Then why not follow the path of love?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: Who said you couldn’t follow it? You can do so. But when you talk of love, there is duality, is there not -- the person who loves and the entity called God who is loved? The individual is not separate from God. Hence love means one has love towards one’s own Self.

Questioner: That is why I am asking you whether God could be worshiped through the path of love.

Sri Ramana Maharshi: That is exactly what I have been saying. Love itself is the actual form of God. If by saying, ‘I do not love this, I do not love that’, you reject all things, that which remains is swarupa, that is the real form of the Self. That is pure bliss. Call it pure bliss, God, atma, or what you will. That is devotion, that is realization and that is everything.

If you thus reject everything, what remains is the Self alone. That is real love. One who knows the secret of that love finds the world itself full of universal love.

The experience of not forgetting consciousness, alone, is the state of devotion (bhakti), which is the relationship of unfading real love, because the real knowledge of Self, which shines as the undivided supreme bliss itself, surges up as the nature of love.

Only if one knows the truth of love, which is the real nature of Self, will the strong entangled knot of life be untied. Only if one attains the height of love will liberation be attained. Such is the heart of all religions. The experience of Self is only love, which is seeing only love, hearing only love, feeling only love, tasting only love and smelling only love, which is bliss.



Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 01, 2012, 08:31:14 AM
Nagaraj,
"No matter how a child is, the Mother still loves it. Was it a question about realisation? no not even that, it was a question of Humanness, primarily. Nobody is bound to force on to themselves, the "Joy of Giving" we just share here, what touches our hearts, and we take it if it touches our hearts or else, there is no compulsion."

Absolutely.Thanks very much for the wonderful post.We tend to make a 'Fetish' of jnAna and seem to ignore simple ,humane things as irrelevant!Plain common sense is what is required to see that.We can always learn and be inspired by common folk that we come across.The Flower seller who sells Flower garland to our home everyday is very poor but she will not accept more money than what is due to her!We then give it in the form of food stuff and she will gratefully accept that.We value her Blessings and our children do that as well.The Dhobi who delivers ironed clothes to our apartment (second floor)and the Packaged Water supplier who carries a 10 litre bottle and supplies it to our residence-our children always give them some 'chocolate' or Biscuits' to assuage that 'Physical labour' part of it,although money is paid to recompense the Product and Services.This elicits their 'Blessings' and these Blessings come from God.No question about that.It is not as you rightly have said about starting an 'Organization' etc.All that this means is to consider everyone our own.
As our Holy Mother ,Sri sAradA devi said:
"No one is a stranger my child: this whole world is your own"!
I have posted how Avvayar has also said it in her own way.No guru wll say otherwise,and if we think so,we only need to check whether we have assimilated their teachings properly.
Namaskar.
Title: I feel intensely indeed
Post by: Nagaraj on October 01, 2012, 12:27:05 PM
But if Vivekananda was a scholar, a dynamic person and a man of various parts - infact a genius, he was a man of heart as well. When on the eve of leaving for the west he was met near Mount Abu by Swami Turiyananda, who asked him about his spiritual realisation, the Swami replied, "Brother Hari(Turiyananda), I do not quite understand what spirituality is" and he paused for a while, his countenance expressing a deep seated sorrow; then he added with assurance "but my heart has expanded very much, and I have learnt to feel. Believe me, I feel intensely indeed"

(P 72, History of the Ramakrishna Math and Mission, Swami Gambhirananda)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 01, 2012, 01:01:14 PM
Sri Tushnim,

true, but i don't get why the word "emotion" is coming in to picture of discussion here, as i felt, the essence is quite clear already, why really get into intricacies whether it is emotion or whether it is feelings? these are mere words. don't you feel so? i feel, we can leave this interpretation of words for scholars. A less english knowledgeable person may still continue to say emotion, but still, it may not be an emotion really. What matter is the spirit. I believe, we are all simpletons. Lets move with heart, and leave words behind. Feeling and emotions are one and the same, what is important to know is that, call it,  feelings or emotions, it should not be in control of us, but we have to be in control of them. This is important. some people may say feelings some people may say emotions. what matters? is it not :)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 01, 2012, 02:43:14 PM
Dear Tushnim,

It is not merely find out what is the Witness. This statement should become our State. We should become the witness.
Then we shall remain as untouched by feelings.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 01, 2012, 02:55:58 PM
Dear Tushnim,

I explained the case of my knee pain. Without bothering about it, I attend to my work, go to Tiruvannamalai, go to Madras
for weddings and death and come back. Only at night I use some ointment as a pain killer so that I should not get bothered
about it during sleep.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Guru Tatvam
Post by: Nagaraj on October 03, 2012, 03:32:19 PM


Guru Tatvam

Who is a Guru?

The literal meaning of the Sanskrit word 'Guru' is that which is heavy or that which is of profound impact. Etymologically Guru means remover of darkness. Infact gurutatva belongs to the profoundest of the five divine functions (pancakrityas) vis.Srishti (creation), Stithi (sustenance), Samhara (destruction or devolution), Tirodhana (veiling) and Anugraha (grace). Gurutatva belongs to the anugraha mandala. What does anugraha mean? It is the power which makes a mature soul to come in contact with an illumined master. Its operation is infallible and it confers the greatest blessing on the jiva by kindling the inherent jnana (self knowledge). Thus through bestowal of Brahmavidya it releases the jiva from the hypnosis of maya. In most of the cases this power of grace manifests through the personality of an external teacher. This contact is similar to the phenomenon of lighting a lamp. As we light a lamp only from an already burning one, so too the disciple gets illumined from the enlightened master. Usually the guru is compared with the legendary Chintamani which can convert any metal into gold. But Adi Sankara says in his Satasloki that Chintamani is an inferior simile. Chintamani can only convert the metal into gold. It cannot convert the metal into Chintamani itself. But guru does that alchemy. He transfigures the disciple into his own likeness through Atmajnana. The experience of the self deals a death blow to the disciple's ignorance and makes him transcend all dualistic perceptions; even the guru ceases to be an external phenomenon. "The infinite self alone shines forth, neither the guru nor the sishya, neither the teaching nor the scripture, neither you nor me, neither this world. Only that ever auspicious self remains! The one without a second! That alone am I!" (Dasasloki), roared Sankara that too right in front of Govinda Bhagavatpada.

Guru and Maya

Anything that takes the mind outward-away from the centre-is maya and the power which makes the mind 'turn back' and seek the source is guru. Any person, place or thing that effects this inward flow was considered by our Rishis as sacred. The extroverted mind gets caught in the grip of avidya and loses its touch with reality. It gets constantly deluded by the dualistic experiences. The matterpower-jadasakti-completely possesses the mind and makes it unfit for Atmajnana. To get released from this illusory grip one needs tremendous inpulling energy or rather 'source energy' which is called Sankarshana sakti. Guru is Sankarshana Murti-the embodiment of source energy. In the field of matter there are two powers viz. Akarshana and Vikarshana (attraction and repulsion). Sankarshana is the power which makes the mind transcend this dualistic plane of
attraction and repulsion. Duality belongs to mind while Sankarshana is the direct descendence of the inpulling power of the Atman. This force effects the inflow of the mind. Externally it takes the form of the guru and pushes the mind inward (guru kripa) and from within the same force arises from the heart which pulls and absorbs the inturned mind into the self (Atma kripa). So guru rescues the mind from the mire of ignorance and makes it inturned and receptive to the irresistible fascination of the Self. At this stage the quietude of the Self wafts around the seeker and inundates him with deep meditative poise.

The Attraction of the Guru

Only a genuine seeker will know what it is to get attracted to an enlightened master. When we get attracted to a real sage we will recognize a new center unveiling within us which is neither the mind nor the intellect. We will recognize something which is deeper, subtler and profounder than the mind opening within us like a bud. This center will awaken only in the presence of an illumined soul. Hence the contact is unmistakable. This is the spiritual heart (hrudayam), the treasure house of divine experience. The mind will get replenished from this center. The mind will be hushed to a natural quietude and that silence is the
greatest healing tonic. It heals all the hurts caused by self image. Hence Yoga Vasishta calls this silence born of sadhu sanga as the inner tonic -

rasayanamayi santih paramanandadayini
naanandayati kamnama sadhusangama chandrika


Here the presence of a sage is compared to the comely moonlight. Through such repeated dips in the inner stillness the seeker will awaken to the fact that the treasure sought by him is within. Not only that, he will know that no amount of personal effort could have given him even a slightest glimpse of this inner silence. Here the seeker recognizes the greatest phenomenon in spiritual life i.e. GRACE. In SivaAdvaita they give greatest importance to this insight. They call it Kripa Sakshatkara. From here starts a constant undercurrent of manana and nididhyasana. The seeker again and again recollects and ruminates over the inner revelation that he got through master's grace and gets established in it.

In Swami Chinmayanandaji's life something like this happened when he visited Ramana Maharshi as a young wanderer. In Ramana's presence Swamiji experienced this overpowering grace. It made him enter into a state which he was not able to recognize then as his real nature. Later when he was prepared mentally and intellectually in the guidance of Tapovan Maharaj he recognized and cherished the glimpse that he got in Ramana's presence. (Refer to 'The Journey Of A Master' by Nancy Patchen-pg.27&28)

It is this power of grace that fascinates the seeker. This was the maddening and intoxicating attraction the gopis had for Krishna. This attraction was not physical because it led them to recognize Krishna as the inner self - akhila dehinaam
antharaatmadrik. Even the emotions between them were transmuted as vehicles to carry grace. The writer had the rare good fortune of living with some great saints where he recognized that any emotion of a saint could become a vehicle to carry grace. Even scolding had the effect of erasing self image and infusing grace.

Guru is God

M.P.Pundit wrote about Ramana Maharshi as 'mighty impersonality'. So too is every jnani. Ramana himself used to remark that "Jnanam alone is, there are no Jnanis". When a person recognises his real nature he ceases to be a person. He is truth itself-Brahmavid brahmaiva bhavati. Such a person alone could be a guru. Through him Truth propagates itself. When Swami Rajeswarananda asked Ramana Maharshi how to propagate Brahmavidya, Maharshi retorted back with a question "Who wants to propagate?" The sage continued "Seek the 'I' which wants to propagate. Trace the 'I' thought to its source. It will disappear in the infinite Self. There you will find yourself one with all-atmaivedam sarvam. In that natural state-sahaja stiti-propagation will also happen naturally". So the first duty of a seeker is to remove his own ignorance. Once the avidya is removed, the individual sense or the personal 'I' also ceases to operate. Only in appearance the personality remains; experientially Brahman alone is.

Such a master remains in the world serving two purposes, one is to show that jivanmukti is possible and the other is to remind the seekers the greatest Upanishadic dictum 'Tat tvam Asi' (That you are). The world is constantly reminding us that we are the body. The entire society is built upon this foundation of misapprehension. A person of truth (jnani) is a walking danger to all that is falsehood. He keeps reminding us "You are not this body, you are the infinite truth. Body is only an illusion, a mere appearance in the screen of consciousness. Know that. 'Seek Who am I?' Investigate the 'I' thought. The localised 'I' will sink and disappear in the infinite bodhakasa. You are not this personality. You are the substratum on which this illusory personality appears.

Waking, dream and sleep are all illusory. These phenomena constantly appear in you. You alone are the truth. Remain as the infinite Self. Do not identify with this waking ego. It is as illusory as the dream ego. Wake up, wake up." Such clarion call alone will awaken us from this sleep of ignorance. Such verbal confirmation from a sage will make the vague experience of the self to flare up. By mere listening to such teaching a mature seeker instantaneously recognises the self. Such recognition is called 'Pratyabhijna'. (Kashmiri saivism defines pratyabhijna as akritrima aham vimarsha i.e. recollecting the real 'I' by transcending the ego-I).

Sraddha

Sraddha is the most important element in spiritual life. 'Sraddhaavaan labhate jnanam' says Bhagavat Gita. Infact it is the fuel for the inner 'takeoff'. It alone will give us the escape velocity to transcend the 'body mind field'. What is sraddha? Sankara defines it as conviction in the words of the sastras and the guru. He also adds 'yayaa vastu upalabhyate'-by which one attains the vastu (jnanam). By gurubhakti the mind gets refined. As the crude oil is refined and made more powerful as kerosene, diesel, petrol and the fuel for rockets to transcend the gravitational pull of the earth, the mind by constant association with a Brahmavid slowly gets refined and transmuted as sraddha. With this power of attention the paradigm shift from the personal self to the infinite Brahman happens. The external teacher is there only to point out to you that the light is within. You have
to behold. From here you are the teacher, taught and the teaching. Buddha said to Ananda , Atma deepo bhava (Be a lamp unto yourself ).

Paroksha bodhana

The need for constant association with a guru is a must for most of the seekers. Sankaracharya says in his Upanishad bhashya that the spiritual seeker must ignore all that is not the Self (anaatma pratyaya tiraskaarah) and remain established in the pure Self. But the world keeps hypnotising us in an indirect way. Infact this indirect (paroksha) way of putting it across is very powerful. If someone were to say directly, "you are the body", we will become alert immediately. But the way the wrong suggestion reaches us is insidious. People are very solicitous and enquire about your health; "How is your sugar level? Did you check your blood pressure? Eat well. Take care." Thus repeatedly they remind us that we are the body. They seem very affectionate and concerned about us. We are not aware of the virus of ignorance that has creped in. But after spending half an hour with them, when we leave, we have a feeling of insecurity, "Should I go to the doctor and get myself checked?" All our study of the Upanishads is negated in one stroke and we begin to identify with our body. This is Maya. It keeps drawing us outwards, from the Self to the non-self, from the centre to the periphery, from light to darkness! The duty of the guru is to dehypnotise you in the same indirect way (paroksha bodhana). He has to take you from darkness to light. He employs paroksha bodhana (indirect awakening) but it gives aparoksha anubhava (immediate experience of the self). He observes us carefully in our daily interactions and catches us during the right moment to strike home the highest truth. That is why constant association is a must. The Master sees you as perfection, as consciousness, as God. But you (the disciple) consider yourself as the puny ego. So you consider the Guru also as the body.You worship only his body, while his very vision of you is a worship of God in you. Ramana used to remark “If we teach them Tat Tvam Asi once they teach us back Atat Tvam Asi (you are the non Self) a thousand times”. But fortunately his vision is the Truth and it prevails! Hence his Mahavakya Updesha even uttered once completely awakens us from the illusion of misapprehension.

....Contd.
Title: Guru Tatvam
Post by: Nagaraj on October 03, 2012, 03:36:40 PM
The Guru at work

Every time we forget, the guru reminds us and repeatedly establishes us steadily in our true nature. We go to him with our problems and sorrows, and he reminds us that the cause of our misery is ajnanam (spiritual ignorance). There is no sorrow in our true swarupa. A lady went to Ramana Bhagavan, narrated all her sorrows and lamented that she had no peace of mind at all. Generally Maharshi would not answer immediately. He would be silent for a long time, till the person forgot even his own question. Maharshi would wait for the devotee to finish talking, and give enough time to let the thoughts in his mind settle down, so that the answer could sink in effectively. It was not enough to answer in a statement; he had to give them the beatific state itself! Sometimes silence would be the only answer. Sometimes the answer would come the next day, when the questioner was least prepared, had let go of his or her question. Bhagavan never answered the question, he always answered the questioner. He said to the lady, "Who is this 'I' that is suffering? Were these problems and sorrows there in your sleep?". “No," she said, “but the mind was not there in my sleep," she added. "Were you there in your sleep?" asked Maharshi. "Yes," she said. Sri Bhagavan continued: "All the problems are in the mind and not in you. Everything ends when the mind becomes quiet. They rise when the mind rises. Why don't you observe the place where the mind rises? You will find that mind is only an illusion. Self alone IS, remain as That." She sat for some more time and then left.

No one knew whether she understood Maharshi's words. But Maharshi knew that this is the only solution. The famous Kavyakanta Muni, who was greatly devoted to Maharshi, remarked: "You gave the highest upadesa to this peasant woman. If she had asked me, I would have told her to do some mantra japa or nama japa. How can she understand Brahmavidya?" Maharshi replied simply: "This is all I know. I tell what I know. Each person can teach only what he knows." After another half an hour he said, "Two persons were in a room. One of them was sleeping and dreaming that he was being robbed and he screamed in terror. Will the other man who was wide awake chase the robber? He will simply wake up the sleeper. In the same way, the jiva dreams that he has many problems. The basic element of dream is the jivahood itself, that itself being made of dream stuff. One dream cannot be an antidote to another dream. The only solution is to wake up and the problem is not only solved but it gets dissolved.

Mental Preparation of the Seeker

One can wake up only if one has the desire and the determination to wake up. When you go to sleep at night, deciding to get up at 4 o’clock you are mentally prepared to get up, but just in case you don't wake up, you tell someone else to wake you up. And when that person wakes you up in the morning, you get up immediately. However, someone who has not made that decision to get up, for example, a child during the school holidays, will refuse to get up even when someone wakes him up. There are instances of many who lived with the greatest of masters and remained crude. They were not ready to be awakened. They were enjoying their dreams.

There was an ascetic devotee of Sri Ramana Bhagavan who did a lot of penance. Once he lived in a cave in the Arunachala hill doing tremendous austerity (chaandraayana vrata) reducing his food intake gradually till it was barely a mouthful a day. After finishing the vrata he came to the Maharshi and expressed "Bhagavan, I have found that one could keep the body alive with only a mouthful a day". Bhagavan smiled and remarked "You can be alive even without the body. Bodilessness is your real nature. The self is asariram." The disciple stood struck by the power of those words.

Atma Vichara

The only sadhana for a true seeker is to revert back to his real nature every moment 'Pratibodha viditam matam' says Kena Upanishad .Moment by moment enquire into the nature of the 'I'. Ask yourself what is this 'I'. Pay attention. Hold on to this 'I','I'. When thoughts parade do not fall into them. Seek 'To whom these come?’ The answer will be 'to me'. Instantaneously stare at this 'me’, ‘me'. Who is this me? Whence this 'I' arise? If we seek, the 'I' will disappear. The assumed 'I' will not stand the light of enquiry. In its place the real 'I', the primordial truth will reveal itself as existence, awareness and peace. If one has reached this much one no more needs an external guru. Till that the guru and his teachings are the only antidote for the venomous effects of worldly contacts.

Brahmavidya according to Sankara is vastu tantra (the knowledge completely depends upon the object of knowledge) and Brahman is bhuta vastu (ever attained). Jnana alone is the means to attain it.It cannot be attained through any amount of effort (karma). When we hear this, Brahmajnana seems to be an impossible goal. But Sankara himself gives us the greatest relief in his bhashya.

'Baahyaakaara nivrutta budheenaam tu labdha gurvaatma prasaadaanaam
naatah param sukham suprasidham suvijneyam swaasannataram asti'.


'Nothing is more simple, ever attained, easily knowable and nearer than this for those who are introverted and who have got the grace of the guru and the Atman'.

Hence the Sruti says 'Gurumeva abhigachet srothriyam brahmanishtam'. Srothriyam means one who knows the Upanishadic truth. Brahmanishtam means one who is established in it. Hence a mere professor of Vedanta is not qualified. He must not only know but also BE. That is he should have the intuitive recognition of the undifferentiated consciousness and should be able to remain 'as it' all the time. Just as the Self remains without the body, the mind and the personal ego in the deep sleep so too it is, here and now. The appearance of body, mind and the ego do not affect the self in the least. 'Asangohi ayam purushaha'. The Self is not at all attached to anything. The appearance of body, mind, etc. are only like mirage in the desert. If you go and touch the water in a mirage you grab only the sand. So too if you investigate the body, mind or the ego minutely you will see them
dissolving in the Self. This is Sruti jnanam. This conviction must be there in a guru. Then only he will be able to save the disciple from avidya. The guru must be able to dehypnotise the seeker from Maya's hypnosis. You are qualified to seek such a Master only at the stage where you have completely lost the habit of fruit oriented effort, only when you are disillusioned with karma and objective knowledge-“Nirvedam aayaa'. Why? Because the process of Brahmavidya is entirely different from worldly education and the Vedic education. Here verbal knowledge (vaachyaartha) is only a pointer to recognise the ever attained
experience (lakshyaartha). So this sastra is known as 'siddhabodhaka'. In worldly knowledge and Vedic knowledge the seeker is searching a thing other than himself. Here the seeker himself is the 'thing in itself'. Here the knower, knowledge and the known are one. It is his own self, the Aham padaartha (the implied meaning of 'I am'). "You are not what you think yourself to be. Your personality is only assumed. Ignore all that you are not. Attend to the essence of your 'I'-sense. You will see the 'I' dissolving in the blue waters of infinity, existence, awareness, peace and bliss. You are that - Tat tvam asi”. This is the eternal song of Vedanta.

From this recognition of the Self the seeker will have the joy of complete security, intimation of immortality, experience of changeless awareness and above all a deep experience of quietude hitherto unknown. This inner quietude arises not from the mind but directly from the natural state (sahaja sthiti). This jnana samadhi unlike the yogic trance abides for ever. Let us finish this topic by quoting the famous Kabir's song

'Guru kripa anjana paayo mere bhaayi'

Dear brother seek the colliriyum of guru's grace. With that you will behold the ever attained freedom of the Self.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 03, 2012, 07:01:37 PM
Dear Nagaraj<

Nice write up.

Gurus may be different.  But Guru Tattvam  is one and the same. It is to remove the ignorance of the sadhaka.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Silence in daily life
Post by: Nagaraj on October 04, 2012, 10:29:31 AM
Once, three persons were proceeding to heaven in a celestial vehicle which had come to collect them. On their way, they chanced to behold a snake that was just about to swallow its prey, a frog. One of the three commented, "O serpent! Do you not have any compassion for the frog? For heaven's sake, spare its life." The irritated snake cursed, "How dare you deny me my food? May you go to hell." Sad to say, the man went to hell.

The second man, who was bewildered on seeing this, supported the snake's stance and aid, "The frog is but your natural food. You can surely eat it." Now, the frog became wild and retorded, "How dare you suggest that I be eaten! You have no kindness. May you suffer the tortures of hell." The man fell from the celestial vehicle. The third man, who remained silent, reached heaven.

Title: God in All
Post by: Nagaraj on October 05, 2012, 09:44:08 AM
"Yes, all one's confusion comes to an end if one only realizes that it is God who manifests Himself as the atheist and the believer, the good and the bad, the real and the unreal; that it is He who is present in waking and in sleep; and that He is beyond all these."

(Sri Ramakrishnar)

Title: Secrecy in Spiritual Sadhana
Post by: Nagaraj on October 05, 2012, 11:22:29 PM
Secrecy in Spiritual Sadhana

Earnest devotees,

Our spiritual tradition has always since time immemorial days, has advocated maintaining strict secrecy in ones Sadhana. It is said ones initiation should never be divulged to anybody. There is a saying as well that goes as follows:

अन्तः शाक्तः | बहिश्शैवः | लोके वैष्णवः || [कौलोपनिषत्]
AntaH shAktaH bahiH shaivaH loke vaiShNavaH (Kaulopanishad)

Ar heart Shakta, outwardly a Shaiva and in gatherings a Vaishnava (who generally gather together for worshipping in the praise of Hari)

There is a specific reason for this also. Our Sages are not narrow minded to advocate secrecy.

The advantages of maintaining secrecy is that outwardly, one acquires more and more knowledge, inwardly does not go about revealing what ever he may know, as his knowledge is not complete yet, and present himself as a great Bhakta Vainava, singing the glory of Lord where ever he goes. Because of secrecy, ones ego also is curtailed that aspired to jump in each time to express what it knows. Maintaining secrecy is a great restraint of mind.

This tradition of discussing extensively and deeply about Self Enquiry in true spirit not good for any sadhaka.

While it is ok to have light exchanges to dispel small doubts, but engaging in deep discussion about Self Enquiry and its intricacies are detrimental to ones progress.

One has to keep assimilating what ever one comes across, and remain silent and increase the knowledge from within, instead of dissipating what ever little we know, every now and then that only fuels ones ego.

Unknowingly, what we are doing is just merely evaluating our knowledge, by testing it in waters, and when some salt and sugar are added, it affects one pointlessness and focus. the effects of revealing what little we may know out, when it is not complete yet, may attract great damages to ones faith, primarily and cause great disappointment to oneself when one knowledge is questioned.
 
Thank you

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 05, 2012, 11:33:20 PM
The problem is because, there is a sense of anarchy here. We are free to discuss anything, and nobody can really put us down, the only Master that is truly here is just ones own conscience alone,m which is no yet blossomed. But I truly sense, we are all, together not evolved enough to remain in anarchy. There has to be a Teacher, a Guru, an Elderly figure, to monitor us, if we seriously want to progress.

There has to be strong do's and don'ts in tune with what is best for every Sadhana. Those ground rules, following which, one is always under check. Like when Ramanar took on the task of caring for the young. As he liked to use daily events to teach his devotees he said to them, “These little ones do not know that wisdom lies in remaining in their nest. They keep attempting to come out. All trouble lies outside but they cannot remain within. Similarly if the mind is not externalised, but remains sunk in the Heart then there would only be happiness. But the mind keeps moving out.” When Rangaswami asked, “What is the path for keeping it inward?”, Bhagavan said, “It is exactly the same as what I am doing now. Each time a young squirrel comes out, I keep putting it back into its nest. When I go on doing it, it learns the happiness of staying in the nest.”

Without such a master, we got to be extremely careful what we bring to discussion here. I do not know how this is gong to evolve. But it is necessary.

Title: Unpleasant Feelings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
just a contemplation. Unpleasant feelings are blessing in disguise, as opportunity for us to introspect and transcend, go beyond these feelings.

Once Velacheri Ranga Iyer asked Bhagavan,"How is it that I find your bhaktas instead of becoming less and less possessed of ego-sense as the result of contact with you, seem to be even more full of ego sense?" Bhagavan replied, "What is inside must come out. Suppose you keep the water in a pot on the fire, as the heat increases, the water must bubble, boil over and evaporate." I gathered that as we go on visiting Bhagavan, the ego comes out and finally disappears.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 03:27:54 PM
T.K.S.Iyer, a disciple, was agitated because someone in the town had spoken disparagingly of the Master and he had failed to retort. So he asked the Master what penalty should be paid for his failure to defend him. The Maharshi replied, “Patience, more patience; tolerance, more tolerance.”

Title: Disciple and Master
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 07:34:45 PM
When one Guru was dying, one of his deciple asked him "Guruji, who was your master?" He said, "I had thousands of masters. If I just relate their names it will take months, years and it is too late. But three masters I will certainly tell you about.

One was a thief. Once I got lost in the desert, and when I reached a village it was very late, everything was closed. But at last I found one man who was trying to make a hole in t he wall of a house. I asked him where I could stay and he said 'At this time of night it will be difficult, but you can say with me - if you can stay with a thief'.And the man was so beautiful. I stayed for one month! And each night he would say to me, 'Now I am going to my work. You rest, you pray.' When he came back I would ask 'Could you get anything?' He would say, 'Not tonight. But tomorrow I will try again, God willing.' He was never in a state of hopelessness, he was always happy.

When I was meditating and meditating for years on end and nothing was happening, many times the moment came when I was so desperate, so hopeless,that I thought to stop all this nonsense. And suddenly I would remember the thief who would say every night, 'God willing, tomorrow it is going to happen.'

And my second master was a dog. I was going to the river, thirsty and a dog came. He was also thirsty. He looked into the river, he saw another dog there - his own image - and became afraid. He would bard and run away, but his thirst was so much that he would come back. Finally, despite his fear, he just jumped into the water, and the image disappeared. And I knew that a message had come to me from God: one has to jump in spite of all fears.

And the third master was a small child. I entered a town and a child was carrying a lit candle. He was going to the mosque to put the candle there.

'Just joking,' I asked the boy, 'Have you lit the candle yourself?' He said, 'Yes sir.' And I asked, 'There was a moment when the candle was unlit, then there was a moment when the candle was lit. Can you show me the source from which the light came?' And the boy laughed, blew out the candle, and said, 'Now you have seen the light going. Where has it gone? You will tell me!'

My ego was shattered, my whole knowledge was shattered. And that moment I felt my own stupidity. Since then I dropped all my knowledgeability.

It is true that I had no master. That does not mean that I was not a disciple - I accepted the whole existence as my master. My Disciplehood was a greater involvement than yours is. I trusted the clouds, the trees. I trusted existence as such. I had no master because I had millions of masters I learned from every possible source. To be a disciple is a must on the path. What does it mean to be a disciple? It means to be able to learn. To be available to learn to be vulnerable to existence. With a master you start learning to learn.

"The master is a swimming pool where you can learn how to swim. Once you have learned, all the oceans are yours."

Title: mental calmness
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 07:41:43 PM
"We all know that on days when we are in a good mood, when the whole world seems to be smiling at us, we can accept predicaments or bad news more easily than if our mind is already upset, frustrated or troubled, when the slightest incident might cause us to explode with negative emotions. If we make a habit of being governed by these negative emotions, we will lose our appetite, sleep badly, perhaps become ill, and lose a few years of our life as a result. So mental calmness is very important."

(Dalai Lama)

Title: Transforming Negative Emotions
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 07:44:51 PM
"Two people have been living in you all your life. One is the ego, garrulous, demanding, hysterical, calculating; the other is the hidden spiritual being, whose still voice of wisdom you have only rarely heard or attended to. As you listen more and more to the teachings, contemplate them, and integrate them into your life, your inner voice, your innate wisdom of discernment, what we call in Buddhism “discriminating awareness,” is awakened and strengthened, and you begin to distinguish between its guidance and the various clamorous and enthralling voices of ego. The memory of your real nature, with all its splendor and confidence, begins to return to you.

You will find, in fact, that you have uncovered in yourself your own wise guide, and as the voice of your wise guide, or discriminating awareness, grows stronger and clearer, you will start to distinguish between its truth and the various deceptions of the ego, and you will be able to listen to it with discernment and confidence."


(Sogyal Rinpoche)

Title: Despondency
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 07:50:21 PM
If there is a remedy when trouble strikes,
What reason is there for despondency?
And if there is no help for it,
What is the use of being sad?

So come what may, I'll never harm
My cheery happiness of mind.
Depression never brings me what I want;
My virtue will be warped and marred by it.

(Nagarjuna)

Title: Discovery of Dharma
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 07:53:55 PM
Assailed by afflictions, we discover Dharma
And find the way to liberation. Thank you, evil forces!

When sorrows invade the mind, we discover Dharma
And find lasting happiness. Thank you, sorrows!

Through harm caused by spirits we discover Dharma
And find fearlessness. Thank you, ghosts and demons!

Through people's hate we discover Dharma
And find benefits and happiness. Thank you, those who hate us!

Through cruel adversity, we discover Dharma
And find the unchanging way. Thank you, adversity!

Through being impelled to by others, we discover Dharma
And find the essential meaning. Thank you, all who drive us on!

We dedicate our merit to you all, to repay your kindness.


(Gyalwa Longchenpa, source: SoultoSpirit.com)

Title: Anger begins when...
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 08:00:15 PM
"When reason ends, then anger begins.
Therefore, anger is a sign of weakness."


(Dalai Lama)

Title: Patience
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 08:03:03 PM
"Some people feel patience is showing weakness or pessimism.

But, actually, patience shows the strength and clarity of mind, which are based on wisdom and compassion. Without proper wisdom and compassion, one cannot practice patience."


(Khenpo Konchog Gyaltsen Rinpoche)

Title: How to take insults
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 08:08:31 PM
On one occasion, the Buddha was invited by one person for alms to his house. As invited, the Buddha visited the house of the person. Instead of entertaining Him, the person poured forth a torrent of abuse with the filthiest of words. The Buddha politely inquired:

"Do visitors come to your house, good person?"
"Yes," he replied.
"What do you do when they come?"
"Oh, we prepare a sumptuous feast."
"What do you if they refuse to receive the meal?"
"Why, we gladly partake of them ourselves."
"Well, good person, you have invited me for alms and entertained me with abuse which I decline to accept. So now it belongs to you."

The Buddha did not retaliate but politely gave back what the person had given Him. Retaliate not, the Buddha advised.

"Hatred does not cease through hatred but through love alone they cease."


(Akkosa Sutta)

Title: Taming the mind
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 08:12:38 PM
"Just hearing about patience does not mean you are experiencing it now or will easily develop it. To lay the ground for training the mind, you must first tame the mind. To tame the mind, it is extremely important to do the basic shamata [tranquility meditation, calm abiding] practice, which develops calmness and tranquility. Then you can add the practice of patience, understanding the benefits of patience and reminding yourself to take advantage of the available antidotes."

(Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche)

Title: Hell is not punishment
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 08:35:18 PM
Hell is not punishment,
it's training.


(Shunryu Suzuki)

Title: Seven Good Qualities
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 08:38:57 PM
Seven Good Qualities

- Have faith
- Have moral shame
- Have fear of misconduct
- Be proficient in learning
- Be resolute
- Be mindful
- Be wise


(Buddha)

Title: Transforming Anger
Post by: Nagaraj on October 06, 2012, 08:46:05 PM
Mahatma Gandhi provides a perfect example of how anger can be harnessed. As a young, unknown, brown-skinned lawyer traveling in South Africa on business, he was roughly thrown from the train because he refused to surrender his first-class ticket and move to the third-class compartment. He spent a cold, sleepless night on the railway platform.

Later, he said this was the turning point of his life: for on that night, full of anger because of this personal injustice, as well as the countless injustices suffered by so many others every day in South Africa, he resolved not to rest until he had set those injustices right. On that night he conquered his anger and vowed to resist injustice, not by violence or retaliation, but through the loving power of nonviolent resistance, which elevates the consciousness of both oppressed and oppressor.

We may never be called on to liberate a people or lead a vast nation, but Gandhi's example can apply in a small way in our own lives, when we decide to return goodwill for ill will, love for hatred, in the innumerable little acts of daily life.

"I have learned through bitter experience the one supreme lesson to conserve my anger, and as heat conserved is transmuted into energy, even so our anger controlled can be transmuted into a power that can move the world."

(Mahatma Gandhi)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 07, 2012, 07:27:29 AM
Nagaraj/Friends,
The wise Grandma avviyAr in her aathichoodi has said all the basics and these are of immense value to all.
1.அறம் செய விரும்பு Desire to practise Dharma.see the emphasis on 'Desire'.If this desire is nurtured it will automatically issue out in action someday or other!She is not saying-அறம் செய் (Perform Dharmic deeds).

2. ஆறுவது சினம் Anger cools .She is not saying 'cool down anger'.She is saying that if we do not do anything,it just cools!This means ,not to perpetuate it by dwelling on it.Just like boiling water cools down if we take the pot off the stove and we do not have to make any effort to cool it.Just take it off the stove and let it cool.
Similiarly,just attending to what we need to do next and the anger cools off!

3.இயல்வது கரவேல் Do not hold back The Help you are capable of rendering.

4.ஈவது விலக்கேல் -Prevent not Giving(of charity)

5.உடையது விளம்பேல்-Advertise not what you possess.This is very important.
Sri Nochur venkatraman in his talk 'guru Kripa vilasam' narrated a very wonderful story of the Great Saint EknAth maharaj.Eknath was utterly humble and served his guru JanArdhana swami for over 12 years.JanArdhana swami worked in the King's palace and yet was a Realized Guru.So selfless was Eknath's devotion to his Guru,that a thought arose in the Guru that he should give 'something' to eKknath.JanArdana swami was in DhyAna Sthithi,and a spontaneous thought arose in him that Eknath should get Darshan of Adi Guru Dattatreya.Eknath at that time was away, had gone for a bath in the River.Through his intuitive powers janArdana Swami knew that Eknath should have been immediately blessed with the vision of Lord dattatreya.Eknath came back from his bath and went about his services in the usual way.The Guru did not see any elation or other signs in his face.He asked Eknath-'Did you have vision of Adi Guru DattAtreya?'.'yes' said EknAth 'He gave me darshan when I was having a bath in the river'!Sri Nochur said that Eknath was steeped in JnAna that in that ocean,even the Darshan of adi guru dattatreya did not cause a ripple and he reported it only when his Guru asked!Sri Nochur then narrated how Naren(Swami Vivekananda)asked Sri Ramakrishna that he Naren did not get any extraordinary experiences whereas several others present had had bhAva samAdhi experiences,and some have swooned in ecstacy.Sri Ramakrishna told him that when a Elephant enters a Lake ,the water splashes all around but if it enters a Big River ,there may not be any ripple even.Sri Ramakrishna told him that was the case with Naren and the reason for his not feeling anything.(Swamiji was a Siddha Purusha by birth-ravi).This is a Great lesson for not parading our experience,which is nothing substantial anyway.

6.ஊக்கமது கைவிடேல்:Let go not Zeal.

7.எண் எழுத்து இகழேல்:Despise not Thinking and Learning.

8.ஏற்பது இகழ்ச்சி:Acceptance (of alms) is Despicable.

9.ஐயம் இட்டு உண்:Offer(Without being asked-This is what is called Aiyam.Pitchai is that which is given after being asked for)and then Eat.

10.ஒப்புரவு ஒழுகு:Live in Harmony

11.ஓதுவது ஒழியேல்:Do Not give up Chanting(Vedas,Mantras,prayers)

12.ஔவியம் பேசேல்:Be not Jealous.

13.அஃகஞ் சுருக்கேல்:Lower not the Measure of Grains(In olden days Grains sold used to be measured not in weight but through volume.Perhaps in today's context, avvaiyar may talk about Petrol or Diesel sold in the Station outlets!).In short,Be fair in your dealings.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 07, 2012, 07:35:36 AM
Nagaraj/Friends,
This passage occurs in The gospel of Sri Ramakrishna thread for today:

Difficulties of preaching

MASTER (to Vijay): "The task of a religious teacher is indeed difficult. One cannot teach
men without a direct command from God. People won't listen to you if you teach without
such authority. Such teaching has no force behind it. One must first of all attain God
through spiritual discipline or some other means. Thus armed with authority from God, one
can deliver lectures
.

"After receiving the command from God, one can be a teacher and give lectures anywhere.
He who receives authority from God also receives power from Him. Only then can he
perform the difficult task of a teacher
.

"An insignificant tenant was once engaged in a lawsuit with a big landlord. People realized
that there was a powerful man behind the tenant. Perhaps another big landlord was
directing the case from behind. Man is an insignificant creature. He cannot fulfil the
difficult task of a teacher without receiving power direct from God."

VIJAY: "Don't the teachings of the Brahmo Samaj bring men salvation?"
MASTER: "How is it ever possible for one man to liberate another from the bondage of the
world? God alone, the Creator of this world-bewitching maya, can save men from maya.
There is no other refuge but that great Teacher, Satchidananda. How is it ever possible for
men who have not realized God or received His command, and who are not strengthened
with divine strength, to save others from the prison-house of the world?


"One day as I was passing the Panchavati on my way to the pine-grove, I heard a bullfrog
croaking. I thought it must have been seized by a snake. After some time, as I was coming
back, I could still hear its terrified croaking. I looked to see what was the matter, and found
that a water-snake had seized it. The snake could neither swallow it nor give it up. So there
was no end to the frog's suffering. I thought that had it been seized by a cobra it would have
been silenced after three croaks at the most. As it was only a water-snake, both of them had
to go through this agony. A man's ego is destroyed after three croaks, as it were, if he gets
into the clutches of a real teacher. But if the teacher is an 'unripe' one, then both the teacher
and the disciple undergo endless suffering
. The disciple cannot get rid either of his ego or
of the shackles of the world. If a disciple falls into the clutches of an incompetent teacher,
he doesn't attain liberation."

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 07, 2012, 09:37:25 AM
Food for thought, Sri Ravi. Thank you!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 07, 2012, 09:52:03 AM
This one thing Sri Nochur says quite often:

guravo bahavah santi sishya-vittapaharakah, durlabhah sad-gurur devi shishya-santapaharakah
 
"There are many gurus who plunder the wealth of their disciples but those gurus are very rare who actually take away the miseries, distress and sufferings of their disciples by imparting actual knowledge."

We all need a Guru, a physical Guru in some form, at whose feet, our unknown ego can sink into nothingness. Very rare are ones who may not require a Guru in physical form. We must submit, confide to at least an elder learned person, so as to not get carried away, atleast until when the Guru graces us.

Actually, all these, knowledge is also one kind of Siddhi, most get carried away by this Siddhi and tend to forget the true goal. One can transcend the Anima Garimaadi Ashta Siddhi, but this Knowledge Siddhi is so subtle that it fools even the most sharpest of disciples.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 07, 2012, 12:29:05 PM
Sri Ravi,

your post on avvaiyar, and your emphasis on the subtle instructions such as:

"see the emphasis on 'Desire'.If this desire is nurtured it will automatically issue out in action someday or other!She is not saying-அறம் செய் (Perform Dharmic deeds)"

The story as narrated by Sri Nochur, to help substantiate the message of avvaiyar - "உடையது விளம்பேல் Advertise not what you possess"

and your elucidations regarding the difference between the Aiyam and Pitchai, in - ஐயம் இட்டு உண்:Offer(Without being asked-This is what is called Aiyam. Pitchai is that which is given after being asked for)and then Eat.

is immensely useful and thought provoking.

I am sure, if we dig deeper, we will discover much more pearls from Avvaiyar's Aathichudi.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 07, 2012, 03:31:18 PM
stray thought -

Unless we truly know what is good for ourselves, we can never know what is good for others.

A Sage, truly is such a perfect being, that really knows what is good for others.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 07, 2012, 04:19:45 PM
"There is no coming to consciousness without pain."

(Carl Gustav Jung)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 07, 2012, 04:29:12 PM
Friends,

I must admit, over last couple of days or so, has been really brought me to deep contemplation. I really am very scared (or hesitation, would be a better word to use) to respond, what others will think, they will be hurt, and that I should not hurt them, and I should not respond, but in one way, it is good, i am thinking more than usual before i respond back, considering the sensitivities even more, but on the other hand, there is a feeling of self contraction, as a result of a vulnerable, volatile environment.

I am striving to strike a balance, but, it is not possible without His grace. May God Bless us.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 07, 2012, 04:51:00 PM
Friends,

I must admit, over last couple of days or so, has been really brought me to deep contemplation. I really am very scared (or hesitation, would be a better word to use) to respond, what others will think, they will be hurt, and that I should not hurt them, and I should not respond, but in one way, it is good, i am thinking more than usual before i respond back, considering the sensitivities even more, but on the other hand, there is a feeling of self contraction, as a result of a vulnerable, volatile environment.

I am striving to strike a balance, but, it is not possible without His grace. May God Bless us.




Dear Nagaraj,

I understand what You want say. I have same thoughts,and the way i look on it,we should be tolerant and considerate in the way we dont offend someone,be rude,or harsh,etc. But that should in any way interfere in our freedom to say what we think and to share our thoughts,if they are about some subject,not offending or anything. We cannot be responsable if someone is hurt with our thinking,if that doasnt have anything with that person directly. We all are responsable for ourselfs,and we can chose not to respond to something if we dont like it. Like Atmavichar100 said it. Or we can respond,but that is also our own choice. I didnt saw anyone here is offending anyone,we mostly dont have that intention,we all just share our thoughts. If someone is offended with that,it is in his hands,not in yours,the way i look on it.

So,please,dont let anything said here put you in position to lose your freedom to talk,or be contracted in any way. I think all of us who share their thoughts often,will come on reactions and different thinking,so the way i see it for my self,i must bare it. Every action have its reaction.
So,like i see it,this forum is just for that,to share our thoughts,agree,disagree,whatever.

We all come to this than and there,and that will pass too.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 07, 2012, 05:11:01 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Just to add,I like very much Your thoughts and enjoy Your writings. They are very much inspirational and beautiful,and if sometimes i write something and disagree,that doasnt mean You should stop posting that,and that cannot anyhow effect my good will towards You,or anybody else here. I truly enjoy in everything You wrote!


I just wanted to share my own thinking on what You said,and that sure doasnt applies on everybody.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 07, 2012, 05:16:26 PM
O Jewel,

I hope, you did not feel, i am singling you out :) , as you know, we were involved in a heated conversation, the other day, that subsided very well :) , I thought, to mutual love and harmony. I was really happy with the way it ended. Generally, i was sharing, it is with every response, that i make to anybody.

Oh, yes, i too, read your Poetry quotes, daily, they are really wonderful and very profound, i feel, the Language of love transcends all protocols.

warm regards and prayers,

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 07, 2012, 05:44:10 PM
Nagaraj/Friends,
Here is an interesting conversation from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

BHAVANATH (humbly): "I feel disturbed if I have a misunderstanding with someone. I
feel that in that case I am not able to love all
"

MASTER: "Try at the outset to talk to him and establish a friendly relationship with him. If
you fail in spite of your efforts, then don't give it another thought. Take refuge in God.
Meditate on Him. There is no use in giving up God and feeling depressed from thinking
about others."


BHAVANATH: "Great souls, such as Christ and Chaitanya, have admonished us to love all
beings."


MASTER: "Love you must, because God dwells in all beings. But salute a wicked person
from a distance. You speak of Chaitanya? He also used to restrain his spiritual feeling in
the presence of unsympathetic people
. At Srivas's house he put Srivas's mother-in-law out
of the room, dragging her out by the hair
."

BHAVANATH: "It was not he but others who did it."

MASTER: "Could the other have done it without his approval? What can be done? Suppose
a man cannot make another love him; must he worry about it day and night? Must I waste
my mind, which should be given to God, on useless things? I say: 'O Mother, I don't want
Narendra, Bhavanath, Rakhal, or anybody. I seek Thee alone. What shall I do with man
?'

I am sure all devotees here are quite mature to handle the occasional heat!  :)
Please post your musings without Fear or hesitation.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 07, 2012, 05:55:38 PM
Sri Ravi,

Thank you so much. This is most appropriate post and very reassuring response, it is powerful as well, as it is from Master Himself. Thank you.

Thanks Jewel, to you too, for extending your reassurances!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 07, 2012, 06:08:03 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

I felt i need to tell You that,coz i truly think that,and felt i should share it with You. :)

With prayers and love..

Dear Sri Ravi,

Beautiful part from Gospel,and very appropriate too! :)

Wish You All the Best!
Title: Ignorance is Bliss
Post by: Nagaraj on October 08, 2012, 07:22:26 PM
ಕಣ್ಣಿದರೆ ರವಿಯೇನು? ರವಿಯಿರದೆ ಕಣ್ಣೇನು?
ಅನ್ಯೋನ್ಯ ಸಹಕೃತಿಯಿನುಭಯ ಸಾರ್ಥಕತೆ
ನಿನ್ನಾತ್ಮ ಜಗದಾತ್ಮಕಂತು ಸಂಬಂಧವವು
ವಹ್ನಿಸ್ಫುಲಿಂಗಗಳೊ - ಮಂಕುತಿಮ್ಮ

Kannirade Ravi yenu? Ravi irade Kannenu?
Anyonya Sahakruthiyinubhaya  Saarthakate
Ninnaatma Jagadaatmakantu Sambandhavavu
Vahnisphulingagolou - Mankuthimmma

What avail is the Sun, without eyes and what avail are the eyes without the Sun
intimate mutual co-operation brings fulfillment
This is the relationship between yourself and the Supreme Self
Just like the fire and spark - Mankuthimma

What is the use if there is Sun and there are no eyes to see it, and similarly what is the use of having eyes if there is no Sun? (nothing can be seen, One without the other is no joy) Only this beautiful intimate co-operation, DVG says, inferred as Bhakti, the cooperation of Jivatma (eyes) and Paramatma(Atman) together brings contentment and joy. This is the relationship between ourselves and the Supreme Self, like the fire and the sparks, thus says Mankuthimma.

Very beautiful thought, similarly, there is this wonderful expression from Goethe -

Unless our eyes (Pure Mind) had something of the Sun (Supreme Self)
How could we even look upon the light? (Supreme Self)
Unless there lived within us God's own might - (Supreme Self itself shines in our Pure Mind as a revelation)
How could the God-like give us ecstasy? (Otherwise there is no possibility to enjoy this)



Just as a tongue cannot taste itself, So the Self
Cannot be an object of knowledge to Itself.
How, then, could He be an object to others?

Self only is, what is the joy in only Self Being? Unless there is an ignorant like me to see in awe my own real Self? Hence Ignorance is a boon. Enjoy every moment of ignorance dear friends, ignorance is a wonderful, it is only in ignorance that we can strive to measure the greatness of the Supreme Self, we can experience the pain of unable to see the Vishwarupa Darshana of Lord Krishna, which is Supreme Self.

What is the use of Supreme Self, if we, ajnanis, are not here, to see it, worship it? what is the use of an ajnani, if there is no God, Supreme Self, to see? This beautiful leela or game of Avidya and Vidya are wonderful indeed, neither are to be abhorred, without mutual cooperation, what is life?

Title: Human Birth
Post by: Nagaraj on October 09, 2012, 07:30:35 AM
Culprit, you've missed
your human birth.
Many owners share this body.
Parents say, "Our son!"
and raise him for their profit.
Woman says, "My dear!"
and devours him like a tigress.
Fond wives and loving sons sit,
their mouths gaping like death.

Crows and vultures think
about death, dogs and hogs
eye the road.
Fire says, I'll bum the body.
Water says, I'll quench the flames.
Earth says, I'll mingle with it.
Air says, I'll blow it away.
You think that's your home, fool?
It's the enemy at your throat.
Dazed by swarms of sense-forms,
you call the flesh your own.
The body has so many sharers,
born and dying in pain.
Insane, entranced, unthinking man
shouts "Mine!" and "Mine!" again.


(Kabir)

Title: Reading, reading, reading
Post by: Nagaraj on October 09, 2012, 08:05:20 AM
पढ़ि पढ़ि पढ़ि केता मुवा कथिकथिकथि कहा कीन्ह।
बढ़ि बढ़ि बढ़ि बहु धट गया पारब्रह्म नहीं चीन्ह॥


paṛhi paṛhi paṛhi ketā muvā kathikathikathi kahā kīnha
baṛhi baṛhi baṛhi bahu dhaṭa gayā pārabrahma nahīṁ cīnha

Reading, reading, reading – so many have died in this way; they were ceaselessly speaking about it, but did they actually advanced towards their objective? Further and further on, through how many bodies one has to pass without realizing Pāra Brahma?

(Gorakhnath)

Title: ethical dilemma
Post by: Nagaraj on October 10, 2012, 04:57:33 PM
Ethical Dilemma - dharma sankaTam

ಧರ್ಮಸಂಕಟದಿ ಮನ ತಲ್ಲಣಿಸುತಿರುವಂದು
ನಿರ್ಮಥಿಸು ನಿನ್ನಾತ್ಮವನೆ ಮಮತೆ ಬಿಟ್ಟು
ನಿರ್ಮಮದ ಸದ್ವಿವೇಕದ ದೀಪಕಿಂತ ನೀಂ
ನೆಮ್ಮಲಿನ್ನೇನಿಹುದೊ - ಮನ್ಕುತಿಮ್ಮ


dharma sankaTadi mana tallaNisutiruvandu
nirmathisu ninnAtmavane mamate biTTu
nirmamada sadvivEkada dIpakinta nEn
nemmalinnEnisuhudO mankutimma

When your mind is perplexed with ethical dilemma,
Introspect yourself with dispassion
what else but the light of conscience
Can you depend upon? - Mankuthimma

Title: Nurture Serenity
Post by: Nagaraj on October 11, 2012, 11:14:23 AM
ಸ್ಮಿತವಿರಳಿ ವದನದಲಿ ಕಿವಿಗೆ ಕೇಳಿಸದಿರಲಿ
ಹಿತವಿರಳಿ ವಚನದಲಿ ಋತವ ಬಿಡದಿರಲಿ
ಮಿತವಿರಲಿ ಮನಸಿನುದ್ವೇಗದಲಿ ಭೊಗದಲಿ
ಅತಿ ಬೇಡವೆಲ್ಲಿಯುಂ - ಮಂಕುತಿಮ್ಮ


smitavirali vadanadali kivige kELisadirali
hitavirali vacanadali Rutava biDadirali
mitavirali manasinudvEgadali bhOgadali
ati bEDavelliyum - mankutimma

Have a smiling face, have a nice word
Let not ears hear roar of laughter, don't let go of duties
Belimited in mind's agitation and enjoyment
Don't be excessive in anything - Mankuthimma

DVG speaks about nurturing serenity. Let there be always a pleasant smile on your face, specially when you see somebody and also let there be warmth in your talk, and what you talk be of some good or interest of the other, let it be soothing and not loud, let it be pleasant to the ears. Stick to good principles of life. Do not utter something inorder to please others. Control emotions and aviod excessive indulgence. These will mould your life, thus says Mankuthimma.

Title: Supreme Enlightenment
Post by: Nagaraj on October 11, 2012, 11:51:59 AM
"I gained nothing at all from Supreme Enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called Supreme Enlightenment."

(Buddha)

 ॐ
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 11, 2012, 11:57:17 AM
Sri Tushnim,

i just posted this:

"I gained nothing at all from Supreme Enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called Supreme Enlightenment."

(Buddha)

 ॐ
Title: Attitude towards Non-Self
Post by: Nagaraj on October 12, 2012, 09:50:55 AM
It is foolish to harbour a deep hatred for the non-self, which is perceived in consciousness through confusion. The mind should not be allowed to wander towards worldly objects and what concerns other people. However bad people may appear to be, one should bear no hatred for them. Both desire and hatred should be eschewed.

(Guru Vachaka Kovai, 488)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on October 12, 2012, 09:56:25 AM
Quote
I gained nothing at all from Supreme Enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called Supreme Enlightenment

So true. Sri Bhagawan and entire Vedanta says the same thing. It is not something new that you gain.
Title: Mind held till it is dissolved
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 04:46:27 AM
तावदेव निरोद्धव्यं यावद्हृदि गतं क्षयम् ।
एतत्ज्ञानंच मोक्षश्च शेषो ग्रन्थस्य विस्तरः ॥


tAvadEva nirOdDavyam yAvadhrudi gatam kShayam
etatjnAnanca mOkShashca sheShO granthasya vistarah

The mind should be held in that state till it is dissolved in the heart (i.e. completely freed from the transformation). This is knowledge and also this is liberation, the rest (scriptural discourse) is only dwelling upon it in detail.

(amritabindu upanishad)

Also to note the previously posted quote by gOrakhnAth is noteworthy! (Given below)

पढ़ि पढ़ि पढ़ि केता मुवा कथिकथिकथि कहा कीन्ह।
बढ़ि बढ़ि बढ़ि बहु धट गया पारब्रह्म नहीं चीन्ह॥


paṛhi paṛhi paṛhi ketā muvā kathikathikathi kahā kīnha
baṛhi baṛhi baṛhi bahu dhaṭa gayā pārabrahma nahīṁ cīnha

Reading, reading, reading – so many have died in this way; they were ceaselessly speaking about it, but did they actually advanced towards their objective? Further and further on, through how many bodies one has to pass without realizing Pāra Brahma?

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 12:22:39 PM
Friends,

Just re posting some of my own Non-Ramana related responses from the thread "Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough", as Sri Anil Ji, expressed not to use his thread for Non Ramana related articles. Hence I am posting them for my own reference purposes.


Reply #2576 on: October 12, 2012, 04:38:55 PM »
When you read Sastras you will get only Sastra Jnanam.

When you go to competent Guru, as an ardent seeker, you will attain Atma Jnana.

Dear Sir,

The understanding that the Shastras are only limited to Panchangam and Muhurtham is incorrect. Shastas include the Shrutis, ie. the Vedas, the Dharma, that indicate the basic duties of people of different stations. The practice of Shastras moulds a person better.

Like the good parents mould the child with values and principles, so does the Shastras mould the person who is devoted to following them. In the path of spirituality, physical mother will not be of much help other than providing food and care, but the Veda Mata in the form of Shastras guide the person and shows him the proper way that leads one to the path of wisdom, light. One, who is able to perform the Shastra Jnanam knowingly or unknowingly only will lead him the way to his Guru.

Therefore to assume that by reading shastras, one gains shastra jnAnA and if one finds a genuine Guru, one gains atma jnAnA is not reasonable observation. Without shastra jnAnA one will remain incapable of finding a genuine Guru!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 12:24:32 PM
Reply #2579 on: October 12, 2012, 05:08:24 PM »

Quote from: Subramanian.R on October 12, 2012, 05:04:20 PM
You are not correct. Max Mueller read Sanskrit and even translated Rig Veda.  No doubt he worked for 40 years for this
great job, but what he gained was only a Sastra Jnana. He got a Sanskrit Pandit and learned Sanskrit. But that Sanskrit
pandit was not a competent guru to teach the Truth. Hence had to stop with sastra jnana only. Ganapati Muni was an
expert in all Sastras, but he never gained peace, peace is another name for Self knowledge. This he had to attain only from
Sri Bhagavan.

One cannot learn English only by referring to dictionary. He needs a competent English teacher.

Dear Sir,

I am not competent enough to respond to you, or pass my observation on Max Mular or Ganapti Muni. I would rather stick by my understanding.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 12:26:27 PM


वेदो नित्यमधीयताम्, तदुदितं कर्म स्वनुष्ठीयतां,
तेनेशस्य विधीयतामपचितिकाम्ये मतिस्त्यज्यताम्।
पापौघः परिधूयतां भवसुखे दोषोsनुसंधीयतां,
आत्मेच्छा व्यवसीयतां निज गृहात्तूर्णं विनिर्गम्यताम्॥ (१)

संगः सत्सु विधीयतां भगवतो भक्ति: दृढाऽऽधीयतां,
शान्त्यादिः परिचीयतां दृढतरं कर्माशु संत्यज्यताम्।
सद्विद्वानुपसृप्यतां प्रतिदिनं तत्पादुका सेव्यतां,
ब्रह्मैकाक्षरमर्थ्यतां श्रुतिशिरोवाक्यं समाकर्ण्यताम्॥ (२)

वाक्यार्थश्च विचार्यतां श्रुतिशिरःपक्षः समाश्रीयतां,
दुस्तर्कात् सुविरम्यतां श्रुतिमतस्तर्कोऽनुसंधीयताम्।
ब्रम्हास्मीति विभाव्यतामहरहर्गर्वः परित्यज्यताम्,
देहेऽहंमति रुझ्यतां बुधजनैर्वादः परित्यज्यताम्॥ (३)

क्षुद्व्याधिश्च चिकित्स्यतां प्रतिदिनं भिक्षौषधं भुज्यतां,
स्वाद्वन्नं न तु याच्यतां विधिवशात् प्राप्तेन संतुष्यताम्।
शीतोष्णादि विषह्यतां न तु वृथा वाक्यं समुच्चार्यतां,
औदासीन्यमभीप्स्यतां जनकृपानैष्ठुर्यमुत्सृज्यताम्॥ (४)

एकान्ते सुखमास्यतां परतरे चेतः समाधीयतां,
पूर्णात्मा सुसमीक्ष्यतां जगदिदं तद्वाधितं दृश्यताम्।
प्राक्कर्म प्रविलाप्यतां चितिबलान्नाप्युत्तरैः श्लिश्यतां,
प्रारब्धं त्विह भुज्यतामथ परब्रह्मात्मना स्थीयताम्॥ (५)


Study the Vedas daily.
Perform diligently the duties (karmas) ordained by them.
Dedicate all those actions (karmas) as worship unto the Lord.
Renounce all desires in the mind.
Wash away the hoards of sins in the bosom.
Recognise that the pleasures of sense-objects (samsar) are riddled with pain.
Seek the Self with consistent endeavour.
Escape from the bondage of ‘home’.

Seek companionship with Men of Wisdom.
Be established in firm devotion to the Lord.
Cultivate the virtues such as Shanti etc.,
Eschew all desire-ridden actions.
Take shelter at a Perfect Master (Sat-Guru).
Everyday serve His Lotus feet.
Worship “Om” the Immutable.
Listen in depth, the Upanishadic declarations.

Reflect ever upon the meaning of the Upanishadic commandments,
and take refuge in the Truth of Brahman.
Avoid perverse arguments but follow the
discriminative rationale of the Sruti (Upanishads).
Always be absorbed in the attitude (bhav) – “I am Brahman”.
Renounce pride.
Give up the delusory misconception – “I am the body”.
Give up totally the tendency to argue with wise men.

In hunger diseases get treated.
Daily take the medicine of Bhiksha-food.
Beg no delicious food.
Live contentedly upon whatever comes to your lot as ordained by Him.
Endure all the pairs of opposites: heat and cold, and the like.
Avoid wasteful talks.
Be indifferent.
Save yourself from the meshes of other peoples’ kindness.

In solitude live joyously.
Quieten your mind in the Supreme Lord.
Realise and see the All-pervading Self every where.
Recognise that the finite Universe is a projection of the Self.
Conquer the effects of the deeds done in earlier lives by the present right action.
Through wisdom become detached from future actions (Agami).
Experience and exhaust “Prarabdha” the fruits of past actions.
Thereafter, live absorbed in the bhav - “I am Brahman” !

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 12:29:44 PM
Sir,

I am not denying any time, very frequently i also scroll the poems of mAnickavAchakar and the immense feeling that it generates, the bhAvam, it is really impossible to describe. The only thing that comes to my mind is this song:

eppaDi pADinarO
tiruvadiyAr appaDi pADa nAn Ashai koNDEn shivanE
(eppaDi)

anupallavi

apparum sundararum ALuDai piLLaiyum aruL maNi vAcakarum
poruLuNarnDu unnaiyE
(eppaDi)

gurumaNi shankararum arumai tAyumAnArum
aruNagirinAtharum arutjyOti vaLLalum
karuNaikkaDal perugi kAdalinAl urugi kanittamizh sollinAl
inidunai anudinam


I desire to sing of you,
oh Lord Shiva, as your devotees (aDiyaar) sang!

As the saints Appar, Sundararar, Aaludaippillai and
Manivaasagar (MaaNikkavaasagar, a great Tamil poet) sang of
you with knowledge (also of the Truth of Brahman) and
understanding.

As the great teacher Sankara (not a Tamil poet), dear
Thaayumaanavar, Arunagirinathar and ArulJyoti Vallal (a
reference to the poet commonly known as Vallalaar), their
oceans of compassion overflowing (karunaik kadal perugi ),
melting in their love for you(kaadhalinaal urugi), sang of you
sweetly (inidhunai) each day (anudhinam) in chaste tamil words
(kannith thamizh chollinaal), I also wish to sing.


Every words of great saints including Krishna's in the Gits have some verses that convey like the ones you have presented above. But  we should not single out them from the ocean of poems that they have expressed.

I do not understand, why you are so against the shAstrAs? they are nothing big pAndityam or some great Greek literature, the advise of shAstrAs are nothing but simple set of instructions which they lay for everybody to follow for their betterment.

Study Veda means not just studying Vedas, reading Sri Bhagavan's books daily, reading the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, chanting the regular prayers and prostrating before our Puja altar. Attending satsangs, being with the company of the good and spiritual people. going to pilgrimage to Arunachala, going to temples occasionally. Yes, the scriptures lay that everybody ought to perform the nithya karmas, they do not give a reason so as to not perform them unless, one is formally initiated into sanyAsam or be specially instructed as in the case of muruganAr by an authority such as Sri Bhagavan Himself. I understand each one has a personal equation with their Guru and God, and so, due to that love and intuitive communication, one may be convinced from within that one need not perform any nithya karmAs, but that is very personal, which cannot be revealed out to the open, general, is it not Sir? we give out, what is said by the Sages, one has to evolve and be able to decide for oneself, only when each one becomes so ripe, where the least bit of ego is annihilated, that is where perfect humility takes over. Such being the standard, is it not generally wise to remain and carry on with our lives as per the injunctions of our culture? The Karmas have nothing to do with Self Enquiry vichAra of Bhagavan. Atma vichAra has completely to do only with the mind alone. So, why should the limbs fail to carry on with the instructions of scriptures, let the mind be absorbed with the Self, let the body be only engaged in the activities as prescribed by the scriptures?

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 13, 2012, 12:42:54 PM
Nagaraj,
Wonderful Bouquet of Advice by the Great AchArya.There is a wonderful talk in Deivathin kural ,where kAnchi mahAswAmi refers to this opening piece of advice by Sri Bhagavad pAdAL वेदो नित्यमधीयताम् and compares it with grandma Avvaiyar's ஓதாமல் ஒரு நாளும் இருக்கவேண்டாம்(Do not let a single day pass  without chanting the vedas).mahAperiyavA goes on to say that he prefers AvvaiyAr's expression to that of BhagavadpAdAL!Why?He answers charmingly,that when you tell someone 'DO NOT',immediately it catches the attention than when you advise 'Do'!I will try to get hold of this wonderful talk.These 7 Volumes of Deivathin Kural(Voice of the divine)are truly that!There is nothing that is not covered in these Talks of the Great one.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 13, 2012, 12:53:47 PM
Nagaraj,
The song 'eppadi pAdinarO' is By Kavi yogi ShuddhAnanda bhAratiyar;he narrated the genesis of this song to me.It seems that once on being scolded at home for something,he ran way to a nearby temple and sat behind the deity and composed this song!It is wonderfully rendered by the doyen of Carnatic Musicians,smt D K PattammAL.
I have a collection of books gifted by the Kavi Yogi,among them :Sangeethanjali and Jeeva nAdham-a collection of his compositions.I intend sharing those songs he has composed on Sri Ramakrishna,Swami VivekAnanda,Sri bhagavan,Sri Aurobindo using the Google Tamizh Transliterator.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 01:04:35 PM
Three things thats passing in my mind now, i do not know about rights or wrongs, i listened to my heart. i am not a saint yet.

ஆறுவது சினம்

Home sweet home! everybody is welcome to my home.

மதியாதார் வாசல் மிதியாதே

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 01:29:31 PM
Sri Ravi,

Kindly do share (whenever you can) the kAnchi mahAswAmi talks on the subject, it would be really beneficial for my personal self, also thank you for sharing the shudDhananda bharatiyAr's incident, it really touches my heart even more and the song resonates even deeper from within. I am also reminded about the incidents that lead to the composing of kurai onrRum illai song, by sri rAjAji.

with prayers,

Title: Maithreem Bhajatha
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 05:27:09 PM
Maithreem Bhajatha Akila Hrith Jeththreem - Serve with Friendship and Humility, which will conquer the Hearts of Everyone.
Atmavat Eva Paraan api pashyata - Look upon others similar to yourself.
Yuddham Tyajata - Renounce War
Spardhaam Tyajata - Renounce unnecessary Competition for Power
Tyajata Pareshwa akrama aakramanam - Give up Aggression on others' properties which is wrong
Jananee Prthivee Kaamadughaastey - Mother Earth is wide enough and ready to give us all we desire like a Kaamadenu
JanakO Deva: Sakala Dayaalu: - God, Our Father, is very Compassionate to All
Daamyata - So, Restrain yourself
Datta - So, Donate your wealth to others
Dayathvam - So, Be Kind to others
Janathaa: - Oh People of the World
Sreyo Bhooyaath Sakala Janaanaam - May All People of this World be Happy and Prosperous.
Sreyo Bhooyaath Sakala Janaanaam - May All People of this World be Happy and Prosperous.
Sreyo Bhooyaath Sakala Janaanaam - May All People of this World be Happy and Prosperous.

(kAnchi mahAswAmi)

Title: giving and receiving of knowledge
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 06:08:14 PM
ॐ सह नाववतु । सह नौ भुनक्तु । सहवीर्यं करवावहै ।
तेजस्विनावधीतमस्तु । मा विद्विषावहै ॥
ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥


saha nAvavatu saha nau bhunaktu saha vIryan karavAvahai
tEjasvinAvadhItamastu mA vidviShAvahai
Om shAntih shAntih shAntih

Om! May Brahman protect us (teacher and student) both! May Brahman nourish us both! May we both acquire energy (as a result of this study)! May we both become illumined (by this study)! May we not hate each other! Om, Peace! Peace! Peace!

This Peace invocation contains many beautiful sentiments, sentiments which have inspired Indian education — secular and religious — for a few thousand years. Teacher and student engaged in the pursuit of knowledge and excellence of character is education. It is a co-operative endeavor between the student and the teacher. The invocation expresses the idea of education as the achievement of knowledge and excellence of character in the context of a harmonious relationship between teacher and student; they are en rapport. The giving and receiving of knowledge leading to the remaking of man depends on the stimulus of such teacher student relationship. The teacher gives and the student receives not only ideas and information, but inspiration as well. In all true education, teacher and student are not mere individuals but personalities. Education, according to the Indian sages, is the lighting of one lamp from another lamp.



In our case, there may not be a teacher, but i believe we have to observe the same fervor!

Infact, in the literal translation, of the above verse, there is no mention of a Guru or disciple!

(Swami Nirvikarananda)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 10:45:13 PM
Why cling to the arrows shot at you?
Insults
Wounds
Time heals you see.
Why hold so tightly
Do these things define you?
Do these things set you free?
Why inject yourself with these poisons of the mind
Anxiety
Greed
Anger
Despair
Why not let them go
Set them free.
Accept the choices you have
And your responsibilities.
Accept all that is, rather than "as it should be"
For what does define "you"
What will set you free
What if you never find great meaning
What if, in not clinging,
You find stillness
Calm
Honesty
Health
Peace

(Jeniffer Edwards)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 10:48:12 PM
"Merchants come from the north and south,
To gather in the trading center;
But after three days have passed,
Each goes his separate way.
Meeting for but a flash in time,
They should avoid fights and fancies.

Hooked by karmas from previous lives,
Love and hatred run fierce,
But soon we all go our own ways,
And each takes his suited rebirth.
Right now abandon interpersonal discrimination
Made on the basis of attachment and aversion."

(HH 7th Dalai Lama)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 10:51:04 PM
Do everything with a mind that lets go. Do not expect any praise or reward. If you let go a little, you will have a little peace. If you let go a lot, you will have a lot of peace. If you let go completely, you will know complete peace and freedom. Your struggles with the world will have come to an end.

Someone commented, I can observe desire and aversion in my mind, but its hard to observe delusion.
You're riding on a horse and asking where the horse is! was Ajahn Chah's reply.

Just know yourself, this is your witness. Don't make decisions on the strength of your desires. Desires can puff us up into thinking we are something which we're not. We must be very circumspect.

(Ajahn Chah)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 10:53:15 PM
Do not have opinions in other people's actions
When we see defects in others, people in general but particularly those who have entered the Dharma, who are the banner of the monastic robes, are the support for the offerings of gods and men alike, we should understand that it is the impurity of our perception which is at fault. When we look into a mirror, we see a dirty face because our own face is dirty. In the same way, the effects of others are nothing but our impure way of seeing them.
By thinking this way, we should try to rid ourselves of this perception of the faults of other, and cultivate the attitude whereby the whole of existence, all appearances, are experienced as pure.

(Dilgo Khyentse)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 10:56:36 PM
It is a simple fact: whatever you resist will persist. If you are resisting suffering, you suffer more. If you are resisting confusion, you remain confused. If you are looking for peace, you find yourself constantly disturbed. If you are seeking after clarity, you are in a muddle. If you do not want to be angry, you are going to walk around angry. If you do not mind being angry, you will never be bothered about anger, because you will not be holding on to it. Having no opinion for or against, just being open to whatever comes, you are free.

(Dennis Genpo Merzel)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 11:01:07 PM
Even in the greatest yogi, sorrow and joy still arise just as before. The difference between an ordinary person and the yogi is how they view their emotions and react to them.

An ordinary person will instinctively accept or reject them, and so arouse the attachment or aversion that will result in the accumulation of negative karma.

A yogi, however, perceives everything that rises in its natural, pristine state, without allowing grasping to enter his perception.


(Sogyal Rinpoche)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 11:06:59 PM
Suppose an enemy has hurt you in his own domain, why should you annoy yourself and hurt your mind in your own domain?
Suppose someone, to annoy, provokes you to do some evil act, why allow anger to arise and thus do exactly as he wants you to do?

(Visuddhi Magga)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 13, 2012, 11:09:07 PM
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.

(Buddha)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 14, 2012, 07:18:19 AM
Nagaraj,
"I am also reminded about the incidents that lead to the composing of kurai onrRum illai song, by sri rAjAji."
Yes,He lost the elections;He found a rare moment of deliverance amidst Defeat and composed this only song.It was like the Kite that was carrying the 'Fish' and being chased by the crows ,in Avadhuta Gita in Srimad bhAgavatha.
Wonderful song rendered so very well by the Divine voice of Smt M S Subbhulakshmi.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 14, 2012, 10:32:40 AM
Dear Nagaraj,

Anger is a killer. Hypertension problems come mainly by one's angry nature for small and big things. But indignation (anger for
rightful purpose) is a necessity in one's life. Even this should not last for long.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 14, 2012, 07:30:52 PM
Dear Sir,

yes, anger is killer, very true. and a person who can exercise his anger for a rightful purpose is sure to be in control of his anger, otherwise, even if it is for a rightful purpose, if such one is not in control of his anger, though the purpose served may be good, but still, it is a loss for ones own self!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 14, 2012, 07:32:05 PM
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.

When you see a good man, try to emulate his example, and when you see a bad man, search yourself for his faults.

It is not the failure of others to appreciate your abilities that should trouble you, but rather your failure to appreciate theirs.


(Confucius)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 14, 2012, 07:44:21 PM
What actions are most excellent?
To gladden the heart of a human being.
To feed the hungry.
To help the afflicted.
To lighten the sorrow of the sorrowful.
To remove the wrongs of the injured.
That person is the most beloved of God
who does the most good to God's creatures.


(The Prophet Muhammad)

Title: In a controversy
Post by: Nagaraj on October 14, 2012, 08:13:21 PM
In a controversy, the instant we feel anger,
we have already ceased striving for the truth,
and have begun striving for ourselves.

(unknown quote)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 14, 2012, 08:22:29 PM
Sri Bhagavan said:

Occasional anger for valid reasons is not bad. But one should not keep on thinking, 'how come, I got angry?". This is
much worse than the anger itself.

Sri Bhagavan.

Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 15, 2012, 10:29:49 AM
What does the Gita say? Arjuna refused to fight. Krishna said, “So long as you refuse to fight, you have the sense of doership. Who are you to refrain or to act? Give up the notion of doership. Until that sense disappears you are bound to act. You are being manipulated by a Higher Power. You are admitting it by your own refusal to submit to it. Instead recognise the Power and submit as a tool. (Or to put it differently), if you refuse you will be forcibly drawn into it. Instead of being an unwilling worker, be a willing one. “Rather, be fixed in the Self and act according to nature without the thought of doership. Then the results of action will not affect you. That is manliness and heroism.”

(Sri Bhagavan)

Title: ArAdhanA of srI candrashEkhara bhAratI swAmijI
Post by: Nagaraj on October 15, 2012, 10:52:33 AM
mahAlayA amAvAsya day. The swAmijI was up at an early hour that morning. He woke up mahAbala bhatTA and told him, "Get ready. Let us go to the river for a bath". Even before the poor bhatTA got ready, the swAmijI had descended the steps of his residence and was waiting for him. As it was the rainy season and as it would be quite cold at the early hour, hot water for the saint's bath inside his residence had been arranged. bhatTA made this known to the swAmijI. But the jagadgurU replied, "Ins't today a punya divasa?". So saying he moved unmindful of the drizzle. The assistant ordered rAmaswAmi, the swAmIjI's attendant, to bring the saint's change of clothes and hurried along with a lantern in one hand nad the fan-pad umbrella in another.

(http://www.sringeri.net/wp-content/themes/sringerisharadapeetham//res/jagadguru_vani//images/cb5.jpg)By the time rAmaswAmi reached the river bank, the swAmijI was descending the river steps. He went slowly into the waters of the river, stood in waist deep water, had a dip and stood up. He went up the steps and sat in padmAsanA on a nearby stone slab for his prAnAyAmA. mahAbalA entered the water, turned his back on the swAmijI and started washing his clothes. Hardly had bhatTA started his task when he heard a loud thud and saw the splash of water. He saw the swAmijIin padmAsanA floating on the water. In a split second bhatTA jumped in, swam briskly, caught hold of the body and shouted for help. As he was swimming against the current with the swAmijI's body on his back he screamed and shouted over and over again. kEshavAchArI who had just arrived on the bank dived in and assisted bhatTA. On reaching the bank the swAmijI's body still in padmAsanA porture was deposited on the ground. The radiance of his face was still a glow and the smile on the lips and peace and contentment of the being were quite fresh and lovely. It was icChA maraNA, one he had achieved by arresting his prAnA.

The day was September 26, 1954, mahAlaya amAvAsyA day, which is today, the ArAdhanA of srI candrashEkhara bhAratI swAmijI, sRungErI.

Title: shUnya sampAdanE
Post by: Nagaraj on October 15, 2012, 11:22:46 AM
The vIrashaivAs have this great saying, that in ones life one has to achieve shUnya sampAdanE - literally, meaning, one has to earn nothing, that is to become literally zero, which is the hallmark of humility, that is the real earning!

‘Anubhaava,’ or collection of experiences, is the foundation of Shoonya Sampadane. shUnya ” in Kannada (sanskrit) is zero or nothing. In the vachanas of sharanas, shUnya is ‘balayu’ – void or nothingness. However, shUnya encompasses everything. shUnya here, is equal to Shiva, the Universal Soul, the Absolute. ‘Sampadane’ means to earn (as in earn a living). In the context of this literature, then, sampAdane is the building of experiences to merge in sublime union with the Ultimate Soul. That is the entire purpose of jiva or individual soul according to the Veerashaiva philosophy. It is the union of individual soul and the Ultimate soul that is Shiva --- the Absolute, the Void, the Shoonya. The earning (sampadane) of that union with shoonya then, is Shoonya Sampadane. Shoonya Sampadane is the record of this attainment by the 12th century sharanas.

Even today, in traditional kannadA houses, they use this saying for those who boast of great life and achievement, what is achievement so long one is able to earn shUnyA, nothing.

The mighty God almighty, who shines like thousands of Sun's put together, puts me into absolute nullity, zero! when i think about others, how can i really know those, who are earnestly practicing and those who are not earnestly practicing their spiritual practice. what is one man's poison is another man's nectar, but for the one who sees God in everything, apart from one self, the whole world is filled with jIvanmuktA's. the whole world is gurU. To that visible and invisible gurU, i prostrate and surrender, and allow myself to be burnt.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 15, 2012, 11:39:04 AM
Nagaraj,
What a Great soul!Thanks for posting.I saw a 3 volume set of Bhakta's reminiscences on Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati called Guru Krupa Vilasam.Have you come across this Set?
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 15, 2012, 12:09:07 PM
Sri Ravi, i keep visiting the sringEri maT here, these volumes are available in tamil. I am sure if they have an English rendering of the same.  Many other books have been out of publication for long time. At the blessings and instructions of srI bhAratI thIrtha swamigal, they are reviving and re publishing many books. I also heard many books are available at the vidyAtIrthA foundation, chennai. There could be a possibility, that it may be available there.

Title: having made a noble veena
Post by: Nagaraj on October 16, 2012, 05:09:18 PM
நல்லதொர் வீணை செய்தே- அதை
நலங்கெடபுழுதில்எறிவதுண்டோ?
சொல்லடி, சிவசக்தி--எனைச்
சுடர்மிகும் அறிவுடன் படைத்து விட்டாய்,
வல்லமை தாராயொ-இந்த
மாநிலம் பயனுற வாழ்வதற்கே?
சொல்லடி சிவசக்தி!-நிலச்
சுமையென வாழ்ந்திடப் புரிகுவையோ?

விசையுறு பந்தினைப்போல்-உள்ளம்
வேண்டிய படிசெலும் உடல்கேட்டேன்.
நசையறு மனம்கேட்டேன்-நித்தம்
நவமெனச் சுடர்தரும் உயிர்கேட்டேன்.
தசையினைத் தீசுடினும்-சிவ
சக்தியைப் பாடும்நல் அகம்கேட்டேன்.
அசைவறு மதிகேட்டேன்- இவை
அருள்வதில் உனக்கேதுந் தடையுள்ளதோ?

பாரதியார்


having made a noble veena
Would it be thrown in a garbage?
Answer me oh Goddess
Why create me with a sparkling wisdom?
Wont you give skill and brilliance to make
myself lead a purposeful life
Answer me oh Goddess
will you make my life live as a
burden to the land I stand on ?

Like a moving ball - Give me a body
that moves in any way my mind directs
Give me a untarnished mind - and a
life that would light up life
Give me the drive to sing about
sivasakthi long after this body is burnt
And gimme an immovable confidence - Do you
have any problem in granting this?

bhAratiyAr
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 16, 2012, 05:27:04 PM
Nagaraj,
Wonderful poem of mahAkavi!
I find this translation by centhil quite good:

Having crafted a wonderful Veena - will thou
spoil and consign it to dust?
Tell O' Goddess - I have
been created with wisdom by thee,
Won't you give me the strength - for me
to live a life fruitful to this land?
Tell me O' Goddess - will thou
make me live as a burden off this land?

Like a swiftly thrown ball - a body
ready to spring on brain's command I ask.
Spotless mind I ask - a life
born anew daily I ask.
Even when the Flesh is on fire - a heart
that sings thy praise I ask.
Unshakeable wisdom I ask - Is there
any obstacle that stops thee from bestowing these?

It is the Divine Mother's Veena,and bharatiyar is questioning her seeming 'indifference'!Wonderful song.What a Great soul!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 16, 2012, 05:33:41 PM
Thank you Sri Ravi, i was struggling so hard with the translation, i found and was trying to nearly better it with little avail. thank you.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 16, 2012, 05:39:21 PM
Nagaraj,
How I wish to share these poems of mhAkavi here.Yes,it is not easy to translate these verses full of verve,vigour,passion,inspiration,jnAna,what not.I wish to share Kannan,My Servant!May be sometime ,do not know when.
Best Regards...Ravi
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 17, 2012, 09:34:36 PM
“The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will become of you, depend on no one. Only the moment you reject all help are you freed.”

(Buddha)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 19, 2012, 12:17:48 PM
The Sun sees everything;
But can he witness the beauty
Of his own rising and setting?

The Self is self-illuminating;
Therefore, there is no other cause
For His seeing Himself
Than Himself.

(jnAnEshwar)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 22, 2012, 09:33:55 AM
Perfect Jnanis have always and will always say, "By the mere Grace of the Sadguru, the Ture Thing the final Brahma-Jnana, which shines in the pure Silence, the rarely attainable Vedanta will dawn of its own accord in the heart as I'-I'."

(Guru Vachaka Kovai, 287)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 22, 2012, 11:06:57 AM
Dear Nagaraj,

Very much yes. Perfect Jnanis always say that Grace alone has conferred me self realization. What did I do to
attain it?

Manikkavachagar says in Tiruvecharavu, (cleaning up the objective consciousness) suttaRivu ozhitahal, Verse 10:


நானேயோ தவஞ் செய்தேன் சிவாயநம எனப்பெற்றேன்
தேனாய்என் அமுதமுமாய்த் தித்திக்குஞ் சிவபெருமான்
தானேவந் தெனதுள்ளம் புகுந்தடியேற் கருள்செய்தான்
ஊனாரும் உயிர்வாழ்க்கை ஒறுத்தன்றே வெறுத்திடவே. 555


What tapas did I do? He told me to chant Sivaya Namah: (I did only that). He came on his own as honey, and nectar,
and on his own entered my Heart, and showered Grace on me. He made me to dislike this flesh covered body and life.
And only remain as Sivam.

Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 25, 2012, 11:04:37 AM
stray thought....

It is not the question of jnyAnA, but more a question of destruction of vAsanAs, that is important!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 25, 2012, 11:10:16 AM
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. Sri Sankara says in Vivekachudamani: Vasana kshyam moksham.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 25, 2012, 02:14:23 PM
Dear Tusnim,

Yes. Vasanas are bhanda hetu and bhoga hetu. Bhoga hetu vasanas do not cause bondage. For example Sri Bhagavan eating
some fruits brought by devotee. But bhandha hetu vasanas bind a person and cause rebirth.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 26, 2012, 02:13:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfYmEHb6S7g&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfYmEHb6S7g&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVh4IxCfIRk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVh4IxCfIRk)

Excellent small inspiring videos on spirituality in general

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 26, 2012, 03:54:41 PM
Dear Sri Nagaraj, Beautiful videos,with very symbolic message! I dont understand a word :) ,but i understand the point. Thank You! With love and prayers,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 26, 2012, 04:23:36 PM
Sri Jewel,

Its really wonderful you were able to appreciate and grasp the subtle message, yes, i felt, just the video would be enough to convey that which is intended, the music and dialogues are secondary.

:) love and prayers,

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 26, 2012, 04:35:05 PM
Dear Sri Nagaraj, Yes,there is universal language,heart,and what can be felt and seen without words. Even mantras i didnt understand first. Only Hari,Govinda,Krishna,Om Namah Shivaya. :D But that was enuf. Intention is most important,i am praying in my way. And it helped,truly! :) With love and prayers,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 26, 2012, 05:51:55 PM
Dear Jewell,

All these mantras, puja, etc., are only auxilliary help. Because we are not able to remain Summa, Still, to control the outgoing
mind, one has to say all these.

Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 26, 2012, 05:58:57 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian sir, Yes,i agree. But i love music,so i am combining helpfull and beautiful. :) And i believe they can deeper the devotion. At least,i see that way. With love and preyers,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 26, 2012, 07:24:28 PM
Feriends,

I am not sure, how many are seeing shankara Tv at this moment the valedictory function of Sringeri Acharya, i am moved beyond my nerves, i was not able to come to chennai to have darshan of acharya but i feel a sense of deep pain yearhing at the conclusion of his chaturmaysa in chennai..

prayers and love to the acharya,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 27, 2012, 03:11:26 AM
(http://www.glitters123.com/glitter_graphics/Flowers/Flowers-Glitters-16.gif)
Take Your Heaven further on
by Emily Dickinson

Take Your Heaven further on --
This -- to Heaven divine Has gone --
Had You earlier blundered in
Possibly, even You had seen
An Eternity -- put on --
Now -- to ring a Door beyond
Is the utmost of Your Hand --
To the Skies -- apologize --
Nearer to Your Courtesies
Than this Sufferer polite --
Dressed to meet You --
See -- in White!
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTixgxwq2NEQkRGsqWlVm9qGmaFi4eVLC8ZBxW96ceTWZ-NwLElSuxUjHyafw)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 27, 2012, 07:07:11 AM
Nagaraj/friends,

"Only that day dawns to which we are awake" -Thoreau

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 27, 2012, 06:47:43 PM
Sri Jewel, Sri Ravi,

thanks for your posts, simple yet so deep!

with prayers,

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 27, 2012, 10:50:57 PM
Nagaraj,

Master TGN summed up Spiritual Living as follows:

உள்ளதை உணர்தல் =Experience What is
அல்லதை தவிர்த்தல்=Dispense with What is not (Truth)
நல்லதை செய்தல்  =Doing Good.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 27, 2012, 10:57:53 PM
உள்ளதை உணர்தல் =Experience What is
அல்லதை தவிர்த்தல்=Dispense with What is not (Truth)
நல்லதை செய்தல்  =Doing Good.

Not read anything smaller and greater than what is conveyed.

Sri Ravi, It is only through you i got introduced to Master TGN, have been browsing his website, since then, and am very much intrigued attracted by Him. Thank you

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 28, 2012, 10:07:21 AM
Nagaraj,
Good to see that you are exploring TGN's site;it is a low budget frills free site maintained by one of the devotees.Master does not have any sankalpa that his teachings should be propagated.Only a small band of devotees volunteer to record his talks,publish a few of his teachings in book form,etc.As such,it is not always easy to find copies of the few books.One of the Best is his wonderful translation of Bhaja Govindam in Tamizh with his commentary and clarifications in the form of question and answer.The Verses are translated in Tamizh as well as English.
Here is a sample from this book:
Verse 1 Bhaja Govindam:

மூடமதியே நீ கோவிந்தம் துதி
கோவிந்தம் துதி,கோவிந்தம் துதிப்பாய்;
ஆடி முடியும் அவ்வேளை இலக்கணம்தான்
உனை ரக்ஷிக்காது கண்டாய்!

Sole Protection:
O ye clouded intellect,
Chant Govindam,chant Govindam
Chant Govindam again;
The Grammar you've swotted
with assiduous care
would not give you
the Least protection
when the drama of life
does draw to a close.

ஐயம் தெளிதல்(Clarification)

1.வினா:'கோவிந்தம் துதி' என சங்கரர் மூன்று முறை சொன்னது ஏன்?

விடை:துதிப்பது என்பது வழிபடுவது,அதாவது நெறிப்படுவது.அது நாவோடு நின்றுவிடக்கூடாது.சிந்தனையிலும் செயலிலும் ஊடுருவிப் பரிணமிக்கவேண்டும்.எனவே மூன்று முறை சொன்னார் என்க.

ஆண்டாளது திருப்பாவைப் பாசுரம் ஒன்றில் 'மாயனை...தூமலர் தூவித்தொழுது, வாயினால் பாடி,மனத்தினால் சிந்திக்க,போய பிழையும் புகுதருவான் நின்றனவும் தீயினில் தூசாகும்' என வருவதை ஒப்பு நோக்குக.(compare)

2 .வினா:'மூடமதி' என ஆதிசங்கரர் சொல்வானேன்?

விடை:'மூட' என்றால் 'அறிவில்லாத' என்று வடமொழியாளர்கள் தவறாகப் பொருள் கொண்டுள்ளார்கள்.மூடம் என்பது தமிழிலே காரணச்சொல்;அறிவு மூடி இருக்கிற நிலையைக் குறிப்பது.ஆன்மீக ஆர்வம்

மானுடனுக்குத் தோன்றாதவரை அவன் மூடனாக உள்ளான்.

மதி என்ற சொல் திருப்பாவை முதல் பாகத்திலும் வருவது காண்க.'மதி நிறைந்த நன்னாளால்' என்றாள் ஆண்டாள்.அறிவு முழுமை பெறுவதாலே நன்னாள் ஆனது.(viveka chandrodhayam)

Master's talks on TiruppAvai is without parallel.Every year for 45 days beginning on 1st December till 14th January(maargahzhi month),there will be a daily playback of his talks on TiruppAvai of 1 hour duration from 19:00 hrs to 20:00 hrs everyday.TGN attends these talks and gives a small preamble and then the 'Listening' session begins.Master truly delved into the very heart of these 30 verses and unravelled the hidden treasures that make tiruppAvai on par with the Vedas.They are a perfect synthesis of Karma,Bhakti,Yoga and JnAna.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 28, 2012, 12:48:30 PM
Dear Ravi,

Tiruvembavai and TirupaLLi Ezhuchi are two poems which give the same ideas expressed by Andal in Tiruppavai.
In 4000 divine songs, there is also one TirupaLLi Echucchi by Tondaradip podi Azwhar.

Maniikkavachagar says in TirupaLLi Ezhuchi, how different devotees pray to Siva in Tiruperundurai:

Some play Veena and Yazh and sing You glory!
Some say Rig Veda (irukku in Tamizh) and Tamizh stotras in praise of You!

Some others fold their hands and pray to you and they cry and become melted in Your presence!

Some keep their hands above their heads and contemplate on You!

O Lord of Tiruperundurai, You have taken over me and are ruling me and do all that is good for me.
O Lord please wake up (and bless us)/     


இன்னிசை வீணையார் யாழினர் ஒருபால்
இருக்கொடு தோத்திரம் இயம்பினர் ஒருபால்
துன்னிய பிணைமலர்க் கையினர் துவள்கையர் ஒருபால்
தொழுகையர் அழுகையர் துவள்கையர் ஒருபால்
சென்னியில் அஞ்சலி கூப்பினர் ஒருபால்
திருப்பெருந் துறையுறை சிவபெரு மானே
என்னையும் ஆண்டுகொண்டின்னருள் புரியும்
எம்பெரு மான்பள்ளி யெழுந்தருளாயே. 371


Arunachala Siva.,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 28, 2012, 02:35:51 PM
Subramanian,
mAnikkavachakar's tiruvembAvai is indeed wonderful,as they express hymns of Peak devotion and jnAna.Yet AndAl's TiruppAvai is not just a வழிபாட்டு நூல்(Hymns) but also more imporatntly a வழிகாட்டு நூல்(Scripture)wherein AnDAL has clearly delineated the step by step method of Deliverance.This is the Reason that in the whole of Divya prabhandham(with 4000verses),it occupies a unique place and revered and accepted as such.
Master TGN with a penetrating insight brings out this aspect in his talks spread over 45 days:He has categorized and grouped the 30 verses as follows:
Verses 1-5:உய்வதற்கான மார்க்கம் (Path to Salvation)
Verses 6-15:உறங்கியது போதாதோ!(Emerge out of Slumber!)
verses 16-20:தட்டுங்கள் திறக்கப்படும் (Knock and it shall be Opened)
Verses 21-30:வேண்டியதைப் பெறலாம்(Achieve all your desires)

The 45 days Talk titles are quite descriptive and purposeful:1.AnDAl,Incarnation of Bhoodevi 2.Advent of ANDAL 3.ANDAL's Reign of Grace 4.ANDAL'S union with the supreme Being 5.calling all seekers(pOdhuminO ner izhiyeer) 6.calling all seekers continued(vaiyathu vaazhveergAL) 7.Way to liberation 8.way to liberation continued... 9.Meditation in Depth 10.Meditation in depth continued... 11.Social Capital 12.Release from Sin Imprints 13.Release from Sin Imprints continued... 14.Seed of Seeds 15.Seed of Seeds continued... 16.Why this slumber? 17.Dawn of Wisdom 18.Lord of Wondrous deeds 19.Rare receptacle(eRRa kalangaL) 20.Peacock and Rain Cloud 21.ceaseless stream of Milk 22.Give up artifice(கள்ளம் தவிர்ந்து) 23.Your own garden 24.count yourself 25.count yourself continued... 26.Knock and it shall be opened 27.charity unbounded 28.last of Doors 29.Not your nature 30.Fan and Mirror 31.Surrender to effulgence 32.Power from Eyes(Angan mA jnAlaththu arasey) 33.Lion Awakens 34.praise unto you 35.peace and happiness 36.prescribed by elders 37.Total serenity 38.Total serenity continued... 39.Total serenity continued... 40.Kinship indissoluble 41.Kinship indissoluble 42.Servitors forever 43.Servitors forever continued... 44.Servitors forever continued... 45.Happiness here and hereafter.

TGN has said that in these 30 verses ANDAL has given the approach,the method and tools ,and all that is needed for a seeker.He has wonderfully brought all these aspects and has invoked the Benign presence of ANDAL to guide the seeker through this wonderful poem that he spontaneously composed:

வளந்தரும் ஆற்றலாம் வானத்தின் நீலம்

அளப்பரிய ஆற்றலது ஆண்டாள்-களமமைத்து

ஆண்டகதை யான்சொல்ல ஆர்வமொடு தான்கேட்டோர்

ஈண்டடைவர் மெய்யாம் இனிமை.

The prowess it is that yields plenitude and prosperity

vast as the infinite blue as the sky-Such is Andal’s field of spiritual energy

and they who come to listen  to my account of her Reign of Grace

are assured of attaining to the sweetness of Unison with the Absolute

here in this world and in this very birth
 –– Sage TGN


Namaskar.


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on October 28, 2012, 02:43:31 PM
Sri Ravi

Where can I get Sage TGN's Andal Thiruppavai CD/BOOKs ? Few weeks back  You sent me a link to his site and there is his house address is given in Anna Nagar .Should I get it there or can I can it at other places in Chennai ?

Has he given a talk on Thiruvenbavai?

I intend to listen to learn and listen to both these during the Margazhi time .

Om Peace .
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 28, 2012, 03:04:31 PM
Atmavichar,
Yes,you can buy them in that address.No,they will not be available at any other place.I need to inform you that you may find the CDs expensive.There is a valid reason why it is so.I suggest that you may visit the place one sunday and listen to the talk(Recorded)by TGN;you may also get to see him and hear his preamble.I think currently the talks on Tirukkural are on,and all are welcome.
I suggest that you listen to his talk and see if you are interested;He will speak quite fast and it may take a while to get tuned to him.This is deliberate on his part,and designed so that the mind of the listener is under pressure to listen more keenly and not go on its own errands!Once this is learned,it will be quite a purposeful sadhana.The Other thing that I need to inform you is that it will be more like a html type of a presentation,with many threads of thought and people who are used to a linear presentation may find it distracting  until they get used to it.
If you need it for listening,I will lend you my copy of AndAl's TiruppAvai.You may listen and return it to me.I lend it to others for listening.Master has permitted this,and at the same time it is expected that unauthorised copies are not made.This is purely a matter of self discipline.If you find it useful,then you may decide to buy it;then we would realize that all the money in this world is not enough to get this treasure!It is truly priceless.
Otherwise,if someone says that the set of CDs cost RS10,000 or so,one would be put off or wonder why it should be so expensive,etc.Then they will start doubting whether TGN is avaricious!He lives a simple life and is taken care of by two sisters who have dedicated themselves to this work and in his service.They are wonderful people.
You may contact me on this mail id:
niveditahr@rediffmail.com

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 28, 2012, 03:08:54 PM
Atmavichar,
TGN has not given any talk on TiruvempAvai.You may visit tgn foundation.org and have a look in the audio section to have a feel of TGN's range of Talks-truly universal and vast pallette.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 28, 2012, 03:12:01 PM
Dear Ravi,

Thank for your explanation as between Tiruvembavai and Tiruppavai. Apart from what you have stated, Andal was herself a girl
and to seek Narayana as her husband (she did it in fact), Manikkavachagar was a male and bring about Nayaki - Nayaka bhavam
is more difficult for a male. You may say all jivas are females and God is the only male. (purushtottaman). But still on daily life,
I consider, it was a more difficult for a male devotee to pursue spiritual union with God treating Him as his (her) lover. This is more
evident in Tiru Chitrambala Kovaiyar. It is said about Sri Ramakrishna that when he had the bhava of Hanuman praying to Rama,
he had even a small tail grown on his back and when he prayed to God in Nayaki bhava, he had even mensuration.  I am not sure
these stories are true but I have heard them somewhere.

Arunachala Siva.         
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 28, 2012, 03:21:40 PM
Yes,you can buy them in that address.No,they will not be available at any other place.I need to inform you that you may find the CDs expensive.There is a valid reason why it is so.I suggest that you may visit the place one sunday and listen to the talk(Recorded)by TGN;you may also get to see him and hear his preamble.I think currently the talks on Tirukkural are on,and all are welcome.
I suggest that you listen to his talk and see if you are interested;He will speak quite fast and it may take a while to get tuned to him.This is deliberate on his part,and designed so that the mind of the listener is under pressure to listen more keenly and not go on its own errands!Once this is learned,it will be quite a purposeful sadhana.The Other thing that I need to inform you is that it will be more like a html type of a presentation,with many threads of thought and people who are used to a linear presentation may find it distracting  until they get used to it.

If you need it for listening,I will lend you my copy of AndAl's TiruppAvai.You may listen and return it to me.I lend it to others for listening.Master has permitted this,and at the same time it is expected that unauthorised copies are not made.This is purely a matter of self discipline.If you find it useful,then you may decide to buy it;then we would realize that all the money in this world is not enough to get this treasure!It is truly priceless.

Otherwise,if someone says that the set of CDs cost RS10,000 or so,one would be put off or wonder why it should be so expensive,etc.Then they will start doubting whether TGN is avaricious!He lives a simple life and is taken care of by two sisters who have dedicated themselves to this work and in his service.They are wonderful people.

Sri Ravi,

This in essence is, all about initiation, the importance, the value is commitment. Otherwise, we not really care much if there is no fear, respect, discipline, responsibility to oneself. i (pray) hope to get opportunity to visit chennai soon, and desire to visit His place, Bhagavan willing!

Thanks for bringing in occasionally the wonderful insights of Master TGN, it is deeply penetrating!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 28, 2012, 03:34:12 PM
Subramanian,
What you have heard about sri Ramakrishna is indeed true!
As for ANDAL,there is absolutely no nAyaki-nAyaka bhava in andAl's tiruppAvai.TGN clearly brings this aspect.It is only in nAchchiar tirumozhi that ANDAL expresses nayaka-nayaki bhava,and her varanam Ayiram is one of the very first dream sequences where she dreams that she is married to lord Ranga mannAr.
In TiruppAvai,she leads not just those ayarpAdi sirumigaL(girls),but calls upon the whole of humanity(vaiyaththu vaazhveergAl-and here TGN beautifully points out that this is a call that is timeless,it is meant for people in the past,present and all those to come in the Future as well).In TiruppAvai,ANDAL has ensured that her satsangha is available for all seekers.Truly a sublime and dazzling work,and TGN brings out so wonderfully how as a model teacher ANDAL carries everyone,be he a beginner or advanced aspirant,all together and inspires everyone that the Goal is within the reach of everyone and how not just the Goal but the path is sweet as well.She has so beautifully charted this out that she begins it by saying nei uNNOM pAl uNNOM(we will discard  pleasures that come through taste),myittu nAm mudiyOm(pleasures that come thgrough sight) and towards the end she is saying AADAI UDUPPOM(dress ourself),and Muzhangai vazhiyAAra ...unBOM(we shall eat and taste) that in the sense of Total freedom ,enjoy this Living here and hereafter.
Absolutely a charming journey, where the sou is wonderfully lead in a sweet and joyous way,l ends up revelling in parabhakti right here and now.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 28, 2012, 03:41:56 PM
Nagaraj,
Quite true and you have simply understood the nature of discipline,as any genuine seeker would.I will be too happy to take you and introduce you to TGN.TGN is utterly simple and unassuming and does not expect or permit any formalities like namaskaram,garland,etc.He treats others as equal even though he should be in his late seventies.Truly a Great soul.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on October 28, 2012, 07:13:38 PM
Sri Ravi

Thanks for ur inputs . I have sent an email to you regarding the same .
Appreciate your efforts .

Om Peace .
Title: Touching Story!
Post by: Nagaraj on October 28, 2012, 07:22:28 PM
24 year Old boy seeing out from the Train's window

Shouted, "Dad, look the trees are going behind!".
Dad smiled and a young Couple sitting nearby, looked at the 24 year Old's Childish behavior with Pity.

Suddenly he again Exclaimed. "Dad look the clouds are running with Us!" .
The couple couldn't resist & said to the old Man. "why don't you take your Son to a good Doctor?"
The Old man smiled & Said "I did and we are just coming from the hospital, my son was blind from birth, he just got his eyes today."

Every Single Person On The Planet Has a Story!


Title: Limitless Beauty of God
Post by: Nagaraj on October 28, 2012, 07:47:38 PM
An old Hindi film song, poetry unmatched, the protagonist sings this poetic song to his beloved, which is as good as the Soundarya Lahari written by Adi Shankara on Goddess!

जीवन से भरी तेरी आँखें
मजबूर करे जीने के लिये
सागर भी तरसते रहते हैं
तेरे रूप का रस पीने के लिये
जीवन से भरी तेरी आँखें ...

तस्वीर बनाये क्या कोई
क्या कोई लिखे तुझपे कविता
रंगों छंदों में समाएगी
किस तरह से इतनी सुंदरता
एक धड़कन है तू दिल के लिये
एक जान है तू जीने के लिये
जीवन से भरी तेरी आँखें ...

मधुबन कि सुगंध है साँसों में
बाहों में कंवल की कोमलता
किरणों का तेज है चेहरे पे
हिरनों की है तुझ में चंचलता
आंचल का तेरे एक तार बहुत
कोई छाक जिगर सीने के लिये
जीवन से भरी तेरी आँखें ...


  Jeevan Se Bhari Teri Aankhen
Majboor Karen Jeene Ke Liye
Saagar Bhi Taraste Rehte Hain
Tere Hoth Ka Ras Peene Ke Liye

Tasveer Banaye Kya Koi
Kya Koi Likhe Tujh Pe Kavita
Rangon Chhandon Mein Samayegi
Kis Tarah Se Itni Sundarta
Ek Dhadkan Hai Tu Dil Ke Liye
Ek Jaan Hai Tu Jeene Ke Liye
Jeevan Se Bhari Teri Aankhen...

Madhuban Ki Sugandh Hai Saanson Mein
Baahon Mein Kamal Ki Komalta
Kirnon Ka Tej Hai Chehre Pe
Hirnon Si Hai Tujh Mein Chanchalta
Aanchal Ka Tere Hai Saar Bahut
Koi Chaak Jigar Seene Ke Liye
Jeevan Se Bhari Teri Aankhen...

  Your eyes, so full of life,
Force me to keep on living.
Even the seas are thirsting
To get a drink from (the essence) your form.

How can anyone paint your picture?
Or write a poem on you?
Colours and words are not enough,
To capture so much beauty.
You are the heart-beat for my heart.
You are the life that helps me live.

The scent of a blooming garden is in your breath,
The softness of lotuses is in your arms.
The brightness of sunrays on your face,
You are as graceful as the deer.
Your scarf has enough threads
to stitch up any torn heart.

(Shyamalal Babu Rai)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddXt2O9ivAU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddXt2O9ivAU&feature=related)

Click on the picture to make it big!
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WisCTLg_Eg4/TZILly5I1rI/AAAAAAAAAVc/9ltnM18Ml3Q/s1600/pbabe112_sri_lalitha_devi%2B%25281%2529.jpg)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 28, 2012, 09:24:39 PM
I will be too happy to take you and introduce you to TGN.TGN is utterly simple and unassuming and does not expect or permit any formalities like namaskaram,garland,etc.He treats others as equal even though he should be in his late seventies.Truly a Great soul.

Thank you Sri Ravi, :) Bhagavan willing...  would be very happy and glad to meet you as well!



Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on October 30, 2012, 09:34:24 AM
Friends,

" In your metaphysics you have denied personality to the Deity: yet when the devout motions of the soul come, yield to them heart and life, though they should clothe God with shape and color. Leave your theory, as Joseph his coat in the hand of the harlot, and flee."


Ralph Waldo Emerson in his essay,Self Reliance.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 30, 2012, 09:38:32 PM
at some point we have to undress our mind, what cease drom worrying what others may think, etc.. and heed to the heart...
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 30, 2012, 10:28:31 PM
at some point we have to undress our mind, what cease drom worrying what others may think, etc.. and heed to the heart...

Dear Sri Nagaraj,

I love this thought. And i cannot agree more! To live our mind aside,and jump without a cord... That thought alone is what make me feel so free... It is unbelieveble feeling,a wonder. Truly inspirational...
Thank You!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on October 30, 2012, 10:33:28 PM
Om mani padme hum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zVty9rD4X-o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zVty9rD4X-o)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on October 30, 2012, 10:59:42 PM
Sri Hari, Sri Jewel,

have been listening to the mani padme hum, about 20 minutes is over. Very peaceful, in the silence of the nights, Buddha is very dear to me. He too is my Master, I feel Buddha and Compassion are synonymous, for he made available the same truth in vedas available to all people in the world today, crossing all barriers! This also reminds me of Ramanujacharya who, after having heard the maha mantra Om namo Narayana from his guru, went up the temple terrace of Melkote and shouted it out to common folks. What compassion! How many souls has Buddha touched all over the world, so many souls getting solace from his grace. The effect of his grace can be openly seen in a small medium such as internet in these very videos, these videos, especially of that inspired of Buddha reflect highest sensitivity and refinement, humility, even in its craft, the pictures used, the colours, truly amazing!

Buddha is one great Sun, still shining since 1500 years.

(http://api.ning.com/files/KGXR8qfgy4SQJ*-nmKs5R*YZvCghmEAKWUwyEj3IKG653Z8Gk4hw2lcof81g7nB*xT6WlyHiQ-afCjTLwJEPCpKlq8Vu6Fgu/buddha_stars1.jpg)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on October 30, 2012, 11:10:37 PM
I know how you feel, dear Nagaraj! I feel the same way. Buddha is one my dearest teachers. His teachings are universal and are for everyone - Hindu, Chirsitan, white, black, theist, atheist, etc. Buddha did not reject anyone. There is a story among Buddhist texts about His rejection of women but I don't give them much credibility.

Om Shanti Shanti Shanti
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on October 30, 2012, 11:59:44 PM
Dear Hari,dear Sri Nagaraj,

I share Your thoughts about Buddha! I Love Him too Very much,and His teachings was always so dear and close to my heart. And that would be Compassion and Love. He Is embodyment of Goodness,and for me,God and Supreme can be and always was only that,Supreme Goodness.
I too dont believe in those words about women,it could never be like that. Only,that was different time back then,with different way of living,and i believe,after Buddha left His body,His students and monks made that rule,about women. I understand them in some way,coz it must be great chalenge to be monk and around women in the same time. I say i understand them,but not agree! I believe Buddha had women followers also.
But,even if He didnt had,i would Always feel same about Buddha.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aROZs8ALUWc/UHsMyHqfALI/AAAAAAAABG4/SPqEKuhyNs0/s400/Buddha-Statue-With-Rose-Petals-In-Background.jpg)

(http://static.binscorner.com/b/beautiful-thought-by-lord-buddhas/part-003.gif)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on October 31, 2012, 12:03:24 AM
Dear Jewell, one of His first followers was His stepmother! So these statements about women as baseless for me. :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 01, 2012, 01:51:58 PM
Nobody believed that Baba knew Sanskrit. One day He surprised all by giving a good interpretation of a verse from the Gita to Nanasaheb Chandorkar. A brief account about this matter was written by Mr.B.V.Deo, Retired Mamlatdar and published in Marathi in 'Shri Sai Leela' magazine, Vol IV. Sphuta Vishaya, page 563. Short accounts of the same are also published in 'Sai Baba's Charters and Sayings' page 61 and in 'The Wondrous Saint Sai Baba', page 36 - both by Brother B.V.Narsimhaswami. Mr.B.V.Deo has also given an English version of this in his statement dated 27-9-1936 and published on page 66 of "Devotees' Experiences, Part III" published by the said Swami. As Mr.Deo has got first hand information about this Subject from Nanasaheb himself we give below his version.

Nanasaheb Chandorkar was a good student of Vedanta. He had read Gita with commentaries and prided himself on his knowledge of all that. He fancied that Baba knew nothing of all this or of Sanskrit. So, Baba one day pricked the bubble. These were the days before crowds flocked to Baba, when Baba had solitary talks at the Mosque with such devotees. Nana was sitting near Baba and massaging His Legs and muttering something.


Baba - Nana, what are you mumbling yourself?

Nana - Iam reciting a shloka (verse) from Sanskrit.

Baba - What shloka?

Nana - From Bhagawad-Gita

Baba - Utter it loudly.

Nana then recited B.G.IV-34 which is as follows :-

'Tadviddhi Pranipatena Pariprashnena Sevaya,

Upadekshyanti Te Jnanam Jnaninastattwadarshinah'

Baba - Nana, do you understand it?

Nana - Yes.

Baba - If you do, then tell me.
                        (http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq235/hetalpatil/Saibaba-Water-Garden-Lux-Anim.gif)

Nana - It means this - "Making Sashtanga Namaskar, i.e., prostration, questioning the guru, serving him, learn what this Jnana is. Then, those Jnanis that have attained the real knowledge of the Sad-Vastu (Brahma) will give you upadesha (instruction) of Jnana."

Baba - Nana, I do not want this sort of collected purport of the whole stanza. Give me each word, its grammatical force and meaning.

Then Nana explained it word by word.

Baba - Nana, is it enough to make prostration merely ?

Nana - I do not know any other meaning for the word 'pranipata' than 'making prostration'.

Baba - What is 'pariprashna'?

Nana - Asking questions.

baba - What does 'Prashna' mean?

Nana - The same (questioning).

Baba - If 'pariprashna' means the same as prashna (question), why did Vyasa add the prefix 'pari'? Was Vyasa off his head?

Nana - I do not know of any other meaning for the word 'pariprashna'.

Baba - 'Seva', what sort of 'seva' is meant?

Nana - Just what we are doing always

Baba - Is it enough to render such service?

Nana - I do not know what more is signified by the word 'seva'.

Baba - In the next line "upadekshyanti te jnanam", can you so read it as to read any other word in lieu of Jnanam?

Nana - Yes.

Baba - What word?

Nana - Ajnanam.

Baba - Taking that word (instead of Jnana) is any meaning made out of the verse?

Nana - No, Shankara Bhashya gives no such construction.

Baba - Never mind if it does not. Is there any objection to using the word "Ajnana" if it gives a better sense?

Nana - I do not understand how to construe by placing "Ajnana" in it.

Baba - Why does Krishna refer Arjuna to Jnanis or Tattwadarshis to do his prostration, interrogation and service? Was not Krishna a Tattwadarshi, in fact Jnana himself.

Nana - Yes He was. But I do not make out why he referred Arjuna to Jnanis?

Baba - Have you not understood this?

Nana was humiliated. His pride was knocked on the head. Then Baba began to explain -

(1) It is not enough merely to prostrate before the Jnanis. We must make Sarvaswa Sharangati (complete surrender) to the Sad-guru.

(2) Mere questioning is not enough. The question must not be made with any improper motive or attitude or to trap the Guru and catch at mistakes in the answer, or out of idle curiosity. It must be serious and with a view to achieve moksha or spiritual progress.

(3) Seva is not rendering service, retaining still the feeling that one is free to offer or refuse service. One must feel that he is not the master of the body, that the body is Guru's and exists merely to render service to him.

If this is done, the Sad-guru will show you what the Janna referred to in the previous stanza is.

Nana did not understand what is meant by saying that a guru teaches ajnana.

Baba - How is Jnana Upadesh, i.e., imparting of realization to be effected? Destroying ignorance is Jnana. (cf. Verse-Ovi-1396 of Jnaneshwari commenting on Gita 18-66 says - "removal of ignorance is like this, Oh Arjuna, If dream and sleep disappear, you are yourself. It is like that." Also Ovi 83 on Gita V-16 says - "Is there anything different or independent in Jnana besides the destruction of ignornace?")* Expelling darkness means light. Destroying duality (dwaita) means non-duality (adwaita). Whenever we speak of destroying Dwaita, we speak of Adwaita. Whenever we talk of destroying darkness, we talk of light. If we have to realise the Adwaita state, the feeling of Dwaita in ourselves has to be removed. That is the realization of the Adwaita state. Who can speak of Adwaita while remaining in Dwaita? If one did, unless one gets into that state, how can one know it and realise it?

Again, the Shishya (disciple) like the Sad-guru is really embodiment of Jnana. The difference between the two lies in the attitude, high realization, marvellous super-human Sattva (beingness) and unrivalled capacity and Aishwarya Yoga (divine powers). The Sad-guru is Nirguna, Sat-Chit-Ananda. He has indeed taken human form to elevate mankind and raise the world. But his real Nirguna nature is not destroyed thereby, even a bit. His beingness (or reality), divine power and widsom remain undiminished. The disciple also is in fact of the same swarupa. But, it is overlaid by the effect of the samaskaras of innumerable births in the shape of ignorance, which hides from his view that he is Shuddha Chaitanya (see B.G. Ch. V-15). As stated therein, he gets the impressions - "Iam Jiva, a creature, humble and poor." The Guru has to root out these offshoots of ignorance and has to give upadesh or instruction. To the disciple, held spell-bound for endless generations by the ideas of his being a creature, humble and poor, the Guru imparts in hundreds of births the teaching - "You are God, you are mighty and opulent." Then, he realizes a bit that he is God really. The perpetual delusion under which the disciple is labouring, that he is the body, that he is a creature (jiva) or ego, that God (Paramatma) and the world are different from him, is an error inherited from innumerable past births. From actions based on it, he has derived his joy, sorrows and mixtures of both. To remove this delusion, this error, this root ignorance, he must start the inquiry. How did the ignorance arise? Where is it? And to show him this is called the Guru's upadesh. The following are the instances of Ajnana :-

1 - I am a Jiva (creature)

2 - Body is the soul (I am the body).

3 - God, world and Jiva are different.

4 - I am not God.

5 - Not knowing, that body is not the soul.

6 - Not knowing that God, world and Jiva are one.

Unless these errors are exposed to his view, the disciple cannot learn what is God, jiva, world, body; how they are inter-related and whether they are different from each other, or are one and the same. To teach him these and destroy his ignorance is this instruction in Jnana or Ajnana. Why should Jnana be imparted to the jiva, (who is) a Jnanamurti? Upadesh is merely to show him his error and destroy his ignorance.

Baba added :- (1) Pranipata implies surrender. (2) Surrender must be of body, mind and wealth; Re: (3) Why should Krishna refer Arjuna to other Jnanis? "Sadbhakta takes every thing to be Vasudev (B.G.VII-19 i.e., any Guru will be Krishna to the devotee) and Guru takes disciple to be Vasudev and Krishna treats both as his Prana and Atma (B.G.7-18, commentary of Jnanadev on this). As Shri Krishna knows that there are such Bhaktas and Gurus, He refers Arjuna to them so that their greatness may increase and be known.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 02, 2012, 10:18:25 PM
Clock ticks on, days pass by, months, years pass by and there is no trace of an ending, still! The mystery of mAyA goes on endlessly, along with the tonnes of knowledge, still nothing ends, clock ticks on... we take so many aids for help, but none lasts in time, memories too, is not of help here, excepting to offer moments of solace. Rama Krishna Govinda, how long can these names be chanted, numbers are countless. Of what avail are the knowledge i am that i am, and so on, here? everything is destroyed here, nothing remains as the clock ticks on, and i remain to see it move, they say, i am the clock and the tick, what use is this knowledge here yet again, it is dismissed! Where is the end? there is no ending!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 02, 2012, 10:33:49 PM
Infinity! They say, is Thy name, no beginning and no ending they say, formless is Thy form! When i turn aside to see for your beginning, your form makes me turn around, and I still find myself turning aside in seeing your beginning, so, I give up, and take to see your head, up, i look up, up and I am completely twisted still unable to see your head! You say look within, there is nothing there within, the looking is endless! You say Just be! But the time is endless! you say yearn for me, it passes away! You say engage in your activities, it never ceases! Your expanse seems like a unendingly stretching rubber band. Up Down East West North South, diagonals, inside, outside, all art Thou. Tick Tock Tick Tock...
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 02, 2012, 10:48:13 PM
I see You, You see me, I see You, You see me, So what is there, you say, I am You, so who sees who, and what is seeing? what is to happen upon seeing that which cannot be seen, seen? What is it to it, if it is seen or not seen! Who knows what is seen, seen  not? What can be seen, when seeing is unending, there is no ending for the seeing to finish, and then to know! Seer behind seer behind seer behind seer, there is no end to the original seer, there is no beginning of the seer! If i take a mirror as aid, reflection inside reflection inside reflection inside reflection, there is no ending of the reflection!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on November 03, 2012, 04:42:48 AM
"Do you know my attitude? As for myself, I eat, drink, and live happily. The rest the Divine Mother knows"-Sri Ramakrishna
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 03, 2012, 08:21:53 AM
Thank you Sri Ravi

:)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 03, 2012, 08:47:13 AM
..........contd.

The Master sang:

Remember this, O mind! Nobody is your own:
Vain is your wandering in this world.
Trapped in the subtle snare of māyā as you are,
Do not forget the Mother's name.

Only a day or two men honour you on earth
As lord and master; all too soon
That form, so honoured now, must needs be cast away,
When Death, the Master, seizes you.

Even your beloved wife, for whom, while yet you live,
You fret yourself almost to death,
Will not go with you then; she too will say farewell,
And shun your corpse as an evil thing.

Continuing, the Master said: "What are these things you busy yourself with-this arbitration and leadership? I hear that you settle people's quarrels and that they make you the arbiter. You have been doing this kind of work a long time. Let those who care for such things do them. Now devote your mind more and more to the Lotus Feet of God. The saying goes: 'Ravana died in Lanka and Behula wept bitterly for him!' "Sambhu, too, said, 'I shall build hospitals and dispensaries.' He was a devotee of God; so I said to him, 'Will you ask God for hospitals and dispensaries when you see Him?'

"Keshab Sen asked me, 'Why do I not see God?' I said, 'You do not see God because you busy yourself with such things as name and fame and scholarship.' The mother does not come to the child as long as it sucks its toy-a red toy. But when, after a few minutes, it throws the toy away and cries, then the mother takes down the rice-pot from the hearth and comes running to the child.

"You are engaged in arbitration. The Divine Mother says to Herself:'My child over there is now busy arbitrating and is very happy. Let him be.'

In the mean time Ishan had been holding Sri Ramakrishna's feet. He said humbly, "It is not my will that I should do those things."

MASTER: "I know it. This is the Divine Mother's play-Her lila. It is the will of the Great Enchantress that many should remain  entangled in the world. Do you know what it is like?

How many are the boats, O mind,
That float on the ocean of this world!
How many are those that sink!

Again,

Out of a hundred thousand kites, at best but one or two break free; And Thou dost laugh and clap Thy hands, O Mother, watching them! Only one or two in a hundred thousand get liberation. The rest are entangled through the will of the Divine
Mother.

"Haven't you seen the game of hide-and-seek? It is the 'granny's' will that the game should continue. If all touch her and are released, then the playing comes to a stop. Therefore it is not her will that all should touch her "You see, in big grain stores the merchants keep rice in great heaps that touch the ceiling. Beside them there are heaps of lentils. To protect the grain from the mice, the merchants leave trays of puffed rice and sweetened rice near it. The mice like the smell and the sweet taste of these and so stayaround the trays. They don't find the big heaps of grain. Similarly, men aredeluded by 'woman and gold'; they do not know where God is.

"Rāma said to Nārada, 'Ask a boon of Me.' Nārada said: 'O Rāma, is there anything I lack? What shall I ask of Thee? But if Thou must give me a boon, grant that I may have selfless love for Thy Lotus Feet and that I may not be deluded by Thy world-bewitching māyā.' Rāma said, 'Nārada, ask something else.' Nārada again replied: O Rāma, I don't want anything else Be gracious to me and see that I have pure love for Thy Lotus Feet.'

"I prayed to the Divine Mother: 'O Mother, I don't want name and fame I don't want the eight occult powers. I don't want a hundred occult powers O Mother, I have no desire for creature comforts. Please, Mother, grant me the boon that I may have pure love for Thy Lotus Feet.'

"It is written in the Adhyātma Rāmāyana that Lakshmana asked Rāma 'Rāma, in how many forms and moods do You exist? How shall I be able to recognize You?' Rāma said: 'Brother, remember this. You may be certain that I exist wherever you find the manifestation of ecstatic love.' That love makes one laugh and weep and dance and sing; if anyone has developed such love, you may know for certain that God Himself is manifest there. Chaitanyadeva reached that state."

The devotees listened spellbound to Sri Ramakrishna. His burning words entered their souls, spurring them along the path of renunciation.

.......

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on November 03, 2012, 12:27:40 PM
Dear Sri Nagaraj, Wonderful,wonderful musings!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 03, 2012, 07:42:02 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uHewhM43ujA/R_GKExby3HI/AAAAAAAAAKY/aMENgCkjGcQ/s400/tick-tock-1.gif)
Title: Activity After Enlightenment
Post by: Nagaraj on November 03, 2012, 09:45:51 PM
Very good dialogue with Swami Krishnananda, The Divine Life Society:


Visitor: There are some teachers who seem to be enlightened but still are involved in the world.

SWAMIJI: Either they are not really involved and you have a wrong notion about them, or they are not enlightened. One of the two it is. Either you are making a wrong judgement about them and they may be really enlightened, or they are not enlightened. There are only two aspects of it.

Visitor: Can an enlightened person do something bad?

SWAMIJI: Our outlook of life has to be properly oriented. What do you mean by good, and what do you mean by bad? That has to be clear to the mind first, before you make any judgement. Your ideas of good and bad may be conditioned by certain factors which are delimited. You may not have a cosmic view of things. So, whatever judgement you make may not be complete. It may be partial. That is one aspect of the matter.

Visitor: Can a person lose his enlightenment? Can they fall?

SWAMIJI: A person who is really enlightened cannot fall. It is like saying a person who has woken up will sleep again. If you have already woken up from sleep, will you sleep again? It is not possible, because you have already woken up. If you again go to sleep, it means that you have not fully woken up. You are still half sleeping. You have to define what you mean by "enlightenment." It is like waking up from sleep. You are asking whether a man who has woken up can sleep again. Why will he sleep? He has already woken up. Otherwise, he has not fully woken up; he is half dozing.

Visitor: What is morality?

SWAMIJI: You have to become a disciple of a Guru and learn. Even a clever man cannot understand it. We have got political definitions, social definitions. Anything that is good for your country is moral – is it correct? It is one definition, but it is not the whole truth.

Anything that is good for your family is good, moral. But, still it is not the whole truth. Anything that is good for your little family may not be good for the whole nation. So, your morality is delimited here. Anything that is good for your little country may not be good for the whole world; there, also, your morality is delimiting. So, what do you mean by "morality"? You have to judge it from the context.

It is like medicine. What do you mean by "medicine"? You cannot name the medicine for any particular illness, unless you know what kind of illness it is. If you say that you want medicine, they will ask what kind of illness. Then only, a medicine will be prescribed. So, your idea of morality depends upon the circumstances of your existence physically, intellectually, socially, psychologically, and politically. So, there is no off-hand answer to a question like that. Cut-and-dried answers we cannot give to such questions. Everything is conditional and relative.

Suppose somebody says, "Is it good to cut off the hand of a person?" You say that it is very bad, but suppose you are a surgeon and you are amputating a person's hand. Is it good? So, is cutting off the hand good or bad? There again, the question is relative. So, all questions bring a relative answer; under conditions, circumstances, and exigencies you will know what is proper.

Finally, that only can be called good which will directly or indirectly help you in reaching God. That only can be called good. It may be not directly useful, but indirectly, at least. You have to judge yourself: is it going to help you in any way, indirectly, at least, in reaching the Absolute? Then it is perfectly right – nothing wrong with it.

It is said that a person who is starving and about to die can even steal food, though you cannot say that stealing is good. Suppose there is a mentally demented person who is brandishing a sword in his hand, and you silently go behind him and steal that sword from his hand. Have you done a good thing, or a wrong thing? So, stealing is not always bad. You cannot answer any question in an absolute fashion. They are relative and conditional.

Drinking brandy is very bad, but suppose a person has fallen from a tree and become unconscious. You can pour a spoon of brandy into his mouth, and he will wake up. Is drinking brandy good or bad? Here, also, it is conditional. Every question has to be put carefully, and the answer also has to be given accordingly.

Visitor: Swamiji, would you say that anything was immoral if it had a harmful effect on other people?

SWAMIJI: It has nothing to do with "other" people. It is people in general, because you are also "other people" to certain others. For people who are other than you, you are an "other people." So, what do you mean by "other people?" There are no "other people" in the world. Everyone is equal to others. To me, you are an "other," and to you, I am an "other." When you say "other people," who are the other people? Everybody is "other people" only. What do you say?

You have to use the word carefully. You mean everybody. By "other people" you include yourself, also. You are also other people. So anything good for everybody is good. Don't say "other people." Anything that is good for everybody is fine, and you have to judge for yourself what is good for everybody. Be careful.

The best thing is not to judge quickly. There is a wise saying, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." You will be judged in the same manner as you judge others. The world is made in that way. Whatever you think of other people, that others will think about you, and whatever you do to others will be done to you. So, "do unto others as you would be done by." This is the ethics of the highest type. If you want to know what morality is, you can say it in this one sentence: "Do unto others as you would be done by." That is all.

Visitor: Rituals?

SWAMIJI: Images, idols, pictures, portraits, whatever it is, are as good as anything else. As every part is organically connected to the whole, you can contact the whole through any part. The worship of God through ritual is equivalent to trying to contact Him by means of visible manifestations. This is one stage of religion, or spirituality. But if your mind is vast enough to comprehend the total whole in one grasp, there is no need of touching parts. You can touch the total at one stroke. Otherwise, it is better to go slowly, stage by stage. So here is the relevance of ritual for enlightenment.

Visitor: What about after enlightenment?

SWAMIJI: After enlightenment means after reaching God. This is what you mean?

Visitor: Right. After realising the Self.

SWAMIJI: No, no. Go slowly. Are you realising God or the Self? What are you going to realise?

Visitor: God – the Self with a big "S."

SWAMIJI: Now, you see, after realising God, what happens?

Visitor: What is the relationship of practices after realising God?

SWAMIJI: When you realise God, what happens to you, actually? What will be your status in the condition of the realisation of God? What will happen to you, actually? Do you have an idea about it?

Visitor: It is not that you reach anything.

SWAMIJI: When you reach God, what will happen to you?

Visitor: Then there is no other. Everything is emptiness, or fullness.

SWAMIJI: There is no other.

Visitor: Right.

SWAMIJI: And, you will see only yourself. If you are seeing only yourself, no question will arise afterwards. Who will put the question? To whom? You are putting a question because you are seeing another. And you have already said that there is no "another." So, who will put the question? The question ceases. You will be doing there the same thing which God is doing. And, what is God doing just now? That you will be doing, whatever it be. Inasmuch as you have still maintained a little psychological distance between yourself and God, you are raising this question. If you have actually merged in God, you will not raise a question like that. Already you have asserted that there is no other. What will happen to you, and what will you do after realising God? You will do exactly the same thing as God is doing. Tell me what God is doing.

Visitor: Everything.

SWAMIJI: Then you will be doing the same thing.

Visitor: Another analogy can be: what happens to the river when it merges in the ocean?

Contd....

Title: Activity After Enlightenment
Post by: Nagaraj on November 03, 2012, 09:47:09 PM
SWAMIJI: The river cannot understand it, unless it actually enters the ocean. You are talking about a condition which you have not yet reached. That is why these questions are rising. Unless you have reached that state, it is like a sleeping man asking, "What will I do when I wake up?" When you wake up, you know what to do. Why are you putting a question? It is because you have not woken up that you are putting a question. You have woken up, and you know what is your duty; it is clear to your mind. When you reach the Absolute Being, you will behave in the same way as the Absolute Being behaves. It is up to you to decide what It does. You will be doing the same thing, because you are inseparable from That.

As the Swami said, "What does the river do when it enters the ocean?" It will do what the ocean is doing. It will not behave like a river at that time. It will behave like the ocean only. And, there will be no river in the ocean. The Ganga, the Yamuna, the Mississippi, the Volga, the Amazon – there will be no such thing in the ocean. You will see only ocean. You will not find the Amazon, the Mississippi, etc., in the ocean; yet, they are there. Likewise, you will all be there, yet you will not see anything there. It will all be ocean. This is what will happen to you, and you will do what the ocean is doing.

It is a great joy, isn't it? It purifies the mind, satisfies the soul. You feel healthy and vigorous, even by hearing it. What do you say? That is why satsanga is necessary. It makes you healthy, even the thought of it.

Visitor: In my experience before I was with my teacher now, I was involved in doing certain rituals and that kind of thing with another teacher. After I met my teacher and experienced enlightenment from him, all desire to do any of those kind of things just completely vanished. It was like there was no need anymore.

SWAMIJI: There is no need anymore, when you have reached the Universal Absolute. There is no need, because there is nobody to do anything at that time.

Visitor: Right.

SWAMIJI: So, the question does not arise. You need not do anything, because, who is there to do anything? Doing is a manipulation of the individual in terms of external relations, and external relations cease there. So, the question of doing does not arise. Everything vanishes into the Total Universality. Unless there is an external, there will be no doing, also.

Visitor: That is why it made me wonder why anyone after enlightenment would do any kind of rituals.

SWAMIJI: Anyone with enlightenment will do anything – what are you asking?

Visitor: Why is it that after enlightenment someone would do rituals, etc?

SWAMIJI: It all depends upon what you mean by enlightenment. If enlightenment means unity with the Absolute, there will be no question of doing anything afterwards. The question itself is redundant. But, if your idea of enlightenment is something else, then you have to define, first of all, what you mean by enlightenment. If in enlightenment you maintain individuality as Mr. so-and-so, then, in spite of enlightenment, you will be propelled to do actions by the very law of your biological existence. You will feel hungry, you will feel thirsty, you will like to sleep, you will like to travel, you will like to speak. These are all rituals only. But, you will do that only as long as you are existing in the body, and are conscious of the body.

But, if enlightenment means merging in the Universal Being, the question is not there. There is no question. You do not exist there at all. So, there is no doing; what will you do at that time? It is as "being" only, not "doing." God is Pure Being, not "doing." In Sanskrit we call this state sat-chit-ananda – existence-consciousness-bliss. That is the nature of God – pure existence, pure consciousness, and pure bliss. This is God in essence.

Visitor: After one realises unity with the Absolute, can there be any thing that is of not living in accord with that profound realisation, according to the depth of one's surrender to It?

SWAMIJI: Once you have become united with It, you do not exist anywhere else as this person. Your questions have no meaning then. You do not exist at all. You become one with the sea of universal force, so you will not put a question like that afterwards. The question arises on account of the persistence of individuality even after enlightenment. But, enlightenment means merging in the Universal. The personality ceases to be there; then, you need not have to raise this question at all. The person himself is not there. Then, what question arises? So, you do not maintain a duality after attainment of That. You should not think that still you are outside It.

Only if you are outside It, the question arises. In the path or the process of realising It, there may be difficulties of this kind. But once you have actually touched It, there is no problem. On the way, there are problems, and many varieties of problems. You will have hundreds of difficulties. Many of them, you cannot even imagine; such problems will arise.

You have to read the lives of saints who passed through all these stages, about the problems they had to face. Like Buddha, for instance – you must have studied or read about the life of Buddha. I am giving one example among many others. He tried many ways of enlightenment. First he went to a Guru who taught him physical exercises – asanas, pranayamas, and all that. He went on doing it and nothing happened. No enlightenment came. Then, he started fasting: "Let me not eat. I will sit here until my bone melts, and I will not get up from this place." There was no eating, and his body started withering, as if it was collapsing and finishing. He could not crawl, also. Even that strength he did not have. He felt at that time that it was all a waste, a worthless pursuit – nothing comes: "This is the last day for me." At that time, some lady on the way brought him some porridge, some gruel, and gave it to him to eat. He had some friends who saw him eating this, and they thought this man has fallen. "Oh, you have eaten! You are no good. We will leave you and go away."

He said, "All right, you can go away." Actually, they did not understand, nor did Buddha understand at that time, whether fasting is good, or eating is good. Anyway, he took it and a little strength came, but he was dejected very much. "What is the matter? Nothing comes – no enlightenment. I am in the same condition as I was." He went on sitting.

Suddenly, he saw in his presence his own wife, whom he had left. The wife was with a little child on the lap: "My Lord, you have left me and come. Are you so cruel?"

He said, "How this lady has come here?" He was in the forest, far off under a tree, and the palace of this lady was somewhere else. "Oh, it is an illusion!" he started telling himself, "My desires are manifesting themselves in the form of this individual. Get away from here!" he said.

It was cruel, you could see, because she was sitting there. She was weeping, "Oh, my Lord, you have left me."

He said, "No, no, no. Get away! You are an illusion. You are trying to tempt me. Get away!" Anyway, that vision vanished afterwards. Again he sat.

Edwin Arnold has written a poem called "Light of Asia." I do not know if you have read that book. "Light of Asia" is a poetic biography of Buddha written by a learned scholar. He describes in one chapter what psychological tortures Buddha had to undergo. Angels descended from heaven with temptations of thousands of kinds – with dance and music and nectar. They said, "Everything is here. Come on. You have attained enlightenment, Master! Now, stop your meditation. Here is the river of nectar; there is the pool of honey; here are the maidens for your servants; here are the palaces; you are the king of these gods. Come on!"

"Get away from here!" Buddha said, "You are trying to tempt me with all these dances and all that. No! I do not want it." After he persisted in rejecting them, these visions vanished.

Then, another more ferocious vision started: "What do you think you are? We will pound you to dust just now. We will belabour you! Get up from this place! You are an idiot!" Demons started coming and talking to him.

He said, "What is the matter? First some other vision, now another thing is coming. Do not talk to me! You can pound me to dust or belabour me. I do not want to talk to you," he said. He kept quiet and went on with the meditation. Then, that vision vanished.

Then, there was vast wind, tornado, cyclone, with mud and a hailstorm – everything on his head. It was not actually a physical hailstorm. A psychological world manifested itself before the dross of the mind was thrown out. When you sweep the floor, all the dust goes up and blinds your eyes; yet, it is a cleaning process. Even then, he was thinking to himself, "Nothing has happened to me. I am not having any enlightenment or anything." On that day, when he was in this very difficult situation and in a state of despondency, in the middle of the night, light opened; he had enlightenment.

I am just mentioning to you the difficulties that spiritual seekers have to pass through. It is not easy going, a bread-and-jam path. It is a very hard job, difficult to control the mind. The mind cannot be controlled; it cannot be concentrated on anything continuously. It will jump here and there, in twenty places. When you are wanting to think something, another thing will come. This is the difficulty in Yoga practice. Even God you cannot think then. When you think of God, the idea of the market place, or travel, or a railway train, or something, will come and obstruct you.

Months and years of practice, and tenacious, adamantine persistence in concentrating the mind on one thing is necessary – and a perfect faith that after getting it, "I shall get everything." Therefore, tell the mind: "Oh foolish mind! Why do you go here and there? When you get that, everything will come to you, so what is the good of running here and there for little tinsels?" You tell the mind.

The mind feels that it is losing everything when it goes to God. All the friends, relations, money, wealth, and good things vanish. It may feel like that; it is not concentrating. You tell it, "No, it is not like that. This is a shadow that you are seeing. The realities are somewhere else. If the shadows are attracting you so much, what about the realities? And, not only that, these shadows also are included there in that thing which is your goal in meditation, so you are going to lose nothing. You are going to get everything."

Tell the mind. That is one way of controlling the mind. Like a little child, you tell the mind, "Don't cry, don't cry!" Otherwise, it won't listen. Even children don't listen. They are very naughty. So, these are some of the interesting things on the spiritual path. It is very hazardous and takes much time; yet, it is worth pursuing, and it is the only thing worth pursuing, finally. What do you say?

Visitor: You said earlier that after enlightenment, external relations do not exist? Is that right? Could you explain more about that?

SWAMIJI: What explanation? I have told you. It is very clear. I think the sentence is very clear. What difficulty have you got in understanding it?

Visitor: I am wondering about how people live together after enlightenment.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 04, 2012, 10:06:46 PM
(http://www.thechangeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/winding-path.jpg)

Musafir Hoon Yaaron.. Na Ghar Hai Na Tikhana
Mujhe Chalte Jaana Hai.. Bas Chalte Jaana
Ek Raah Rukh Gayi Tho Aur Judh Gayi
Main Mura Tho Saath Saath Raha Murgayi

Hawaon Ke Paron Par Mera Ashiana
Din Ne Haath Thaam Kar Idhar Bithaliya
Raat Ne Ishaare Se Udhar Bulahliya
Subah se Shaam Se Mera Dostana

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nCi5kwD1Y8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nCi5kwD1Y8)


           I am a traveler my friends, no home or whereabouts
I have to keep going.. just keep going
when one path ended, another joined up with it
whenever I turned, the path bent along with me

My home is on the wings of the wind
The day held my hand and made me sit here
The night beckoned and called me there
Day and night are my friends


मुसाफिर हूँ यारों
ना घर है ना ठिकाना
मुझे चलते जाना है
बस चलते जाना[

एक राह रुक गयी तो और जुड गयी
मैं मुड़ा तो साथ-साथ राह मुड़ गयी
हवा के परों पर मेरा आशियाना

दिन ने हाथ थाम कर इधर बिठा लिया
रात ने इशारे से उधर बुला लिया
सुबह से शाम से मेरा दोस्तान

Title: Bangalore to Tiruvannamalai - Alternate Route
Post by: Nagaraj on November 07, 2012, 06:30:46 PM
Friends,

Bangalore to Tiruvannamalai - Alternate Route

I had been to Arunachala for the last two days. I have some good news to share for Bangalore visitors by vehicle, i discovered a new route, which is very good and a heaven compared to the usual route. This route is just about, may be 20 kms extra, but the road is just wonderful, with only the last stretch to tiruvannamalai with little patch in the road, which also was not bad, we could easily manage 60 kms speed, which is sufficiently good enough. The journey time too, is much lesser compared to the usual one.

Instead of taking the left turn at the krishnagiri by-pass, from which road we turn right that heads to tiruvannamalai, continue further in the dharmapuri salem road, and in about appx. 25 kms, take a left turn at kAryamangalam, you can find a display board at the top, that clearly states, and from kAryamangalam drive towards arur, then thIrthamalai (holy place sanctified by Lord Rama, He performed some rites for having killed many demons) then thandrampet, then tiruvannalamai. From my place of residence, it took less than 4 hours of journey time by car including a 15-20 min coffee break.

Below Map is of help:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-belllpRr-nA/UJpoTuWwGJI/AAAAAAAAByc/cNVf-DwbmIA/s673/map.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Dq_JyDLJxic/UJqOmmrRkBI/AAAAAAAABy4/02b-geKTL24/s640/05112012076.jpg) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VKZNFG_wM5E/UJqOmewuIhI/AAAAAAAABy0/qWoTfzukfqk/s640/05112012077.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WWzEoFb5TN0/UJqOl_W22SI/AAAAAAAAByw/-2sJ34-U6EY/s640/05112012078.jpg) (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kiDuTAUlFUw/UJqOrW_kiQI/AAAAAAAABzI/LdHso-WF124/s640/05112012079.jpg)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 07, 2012, 06:41:20 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Thanks for the useful information.

Arunachala Siva.
 
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 07, 2012, 07:17:51 PM
About my visit to Arunachala, i do not have much to share, it was very quiet and very personal experience, i do not socialize much, hence i did not interact with anybody, so nothing to share at that as well. It was very fulfilling experience, we got accommodation at the very next building beside the Ashram, so we had direct access to Ashram, weather was very nice. Power-cuts are usual. I got opportunity to chant vedas during the morning pujai and abhishekam and adhyayanam and also in the evening. Coincidentally it was a punarvasu nakstaram, star (Bhagavan) it was wonderful, and evening they sang the special punarvasu song on Bhagavan. The last two days were one of my most fulfilling visits so far. As usual, i spend majority of my time in the old hall and samadhi hall. Well, this much i am able to present as a third person narrative, what happened in those two days, cannot be grasped by this mind, time just flew so quickly. It all seems like a dream. i made sure that i got up as early as 3 and was in the old hall at 3:30 and sat before Bhagavan till the samadhi hall was opened and it was truly a blessing to see Bhagavan so early. There were just 3 of us.

I did remember all forum members before Bhagavan :)

Many small new things i was blessed to notice or i can say were revealed, which i wanted to share with you all, the small sandal paste and the kunkum that they put upon the Ramaneshwara lingam felt to me the eye of Bhagavan in the Samadhi Hall, it is so powerful and direct. Then, the picture at Old hall was glowing like fire especially before sunrise and sunset. it appeared like a real. Then, as we all know, Bhagavan never showed abhaya hastam, but, i do not know how many felt this, in the old hall, i felt, Bhagavan has given abhaya pAdam, he has given through his legs. and there are only few photos were he has given this abhaya pAdam. I am presenting those pictures here, below.

I am already missing my trip, it all got over so soon. But there is contentment, happiness.

This one (and the next) is the best, because,
Bhagavan has rested his right hand on his
right leg and give abhaya pAdam,
with extremely graceful eyes:


(http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/photos/restored_photos/full/IOH_28.jpg)

(http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/photos/restored_photos/full/IOH_32.jpg)

This is one more:

(http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/photos/restored_photos/full/IOH_05.jpg)

kanci mahAswAmi is said to have usually given
abhaya hastam only in his left hand, i do not
know the significance, but here Bhagavan
givens abhaya pAdam in his left leg.


(http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/photos/restored_photos/full/SIB_08.jpg)

This is one grand blessing:

(http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/photos/restored_photos/full/OOH_05.jpg)

The other two good ones

(http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/photos/restored_photos/full/JH_005.jpg)

(http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/photos/restored_photos/full/JH_016.jpg)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on November 07, 2012, 07:38:06 PM
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

It is truly wonderful to hear Your impressions!! I am happy to know that You have great time with Bhagavan and Arunachala!
The pictures of Bhagavan are Amazing and Beautiful! Thank You Very much for sharing all this!

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on November 07, 2012, 07:41:13 PM
Nagaraj,
Wonderful Photographs of Sri Bhagavan.Thanks very much.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 07, 2012, 07:43:07 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Nice photographs of Sri Bhagavan. You had gone on Punarvasu day. Punarvasu is a gold colored star. Many devotees
have also said, Sri Bhagavan looked like burnished gold. Punarvasu vaNNam is a famous poem of Muruganar in Sri
Ramana Sannidhi Murai. 

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: ramana_maharshi on November 07, 2012, 07:47:10 PM
you are blessed nagaraj garu to visit ashramam on Punarvasu day.

Thanks for sharing your details.

Did you go with your friends or family?
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on November 07, 2012, 08:48:04 PM
Nagaraj

Happy that you had a spiritually refreshing trip to Ramana Ashram .
Thanks for posting the pics of Bhagwan plus also the interview with Swami Krishnananda that had an excellent account of the struggles Buddha had in his search of Nirvana .
Om Peace .
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 07, 2012, 08:59:43 PM
Thank you friends,

yes, it was truly wonderful experience, just back, already longing for another visit!

Sri Prashant, thank you :) I did not know it was a punarvasu till an archakar who has gotten to know me on account of regular visits enquired when i had come, and then he said, oh good, today is punarvasu star. i went with my parents, I have just one or two good friends only 'Hi, How are you types', but not the types who would visit Arunachala :)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: latha on November 08, 2012, 02:14:09 AM
Dear Nagarajji,

Thank you so much for sharing these wonderful pictures and your experience at Sri Ramanashramam. Very kind of you to think of the forum members in front of Bhagavan. For people like me who live very far, reading about the ashram visits is a big consolation since we can't visit as often as we would like.

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on November 08, 2012, 02:19:21 AM
Thank you for these pictures, Sri Nagaraj! It was very special experience for me! I hope that one day all of us will have the opportunity to visit Lord Ramana's Sacred Place!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 08, 2012, 06:24:44 AM
Sri Latha ji, Sri Hari,

I truly understand your feelings, and your longing to visit Arunachala, especially when you are at distant place. I pray all of you get that call to Arunachala, and He sure calls, when the time is right :)

Thanks so much

with prayers,

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 08, 2012, 06:46:52 AM
Another thing i wanted to share with you, which i forgot was that in the dining hall, i happened to notice the picture of Sri Ramakrishnar, a small Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal of Sringeri, in a corner, along with Adi Shankara, and a picture with all the Sages of India, many unknown to me. This gladdened me much.

The monkeys were having gala time, bathing in the well near the iluppai tree, jumping, and playing, a little one was learning to swim, was hesitant to jump into waters easily, the mother was perhaps trying to teach it to swim, it was displaying its heroics in jumping long and going underneath the waters, it was a treat, as usual the ashram dogs were majestic and dignified, so did the peacocks, the Hill was gloriously giving darshan, i felt, Ramanshram was so ideally located. The Dakshinamurthy statue at the new library is a treat to watch, as one enters the ashram, one gets the darshan directly at the other end near the hill. What to say about the Ashram food, it was nectar. The Ashram people at service were exceptional, each one immersed in their duties, i felt extreme gratitude to each one of them.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on November 08, 2012, 12:54:29 PM
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

How interesting to read all this! You described everything so colorfuly,i feel like i am there. Thank You Very much!

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: ramana_maharshi on November 08, 2012, 01:30:36 PM
Glad that you went with your parents and in this your parents also get the spiritual benefit.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 08, 2012, 06:40:33 PM
(http://www.crystallotus.com/saibaba/images/012.gif)

Have faith and patience.

Then I will be always with you wherever you are.



shrI sAi satcharitrA

Title: A Dzogchen Song
Post by: Nagaraj on November 14, 2012, 12:42:21 PM
Advice from Me to Myself

Listen up, old bad-karma Patrul,
You dweller-in-distraction.

For ages now you've been
Beguiled, entranced, and fooled by appearances.
Are you aware of that? Are you?
Right this very instant, when you're
Under the spell of mistaken perception
You've got to watch out.
Don't let yourself get carried away by this fake
and empty life.

Your mind is spinning around
About carrying out a lot of useless projects:
It's a waste! Give it up!
Thinking about the hundred plans you want to accomplish,
With never enough time to finish them,
Just weighs down your mind.
You're completely distracted
By all these projects, which never come to an end,
But keep spreading out more, like ripples in water.
Don't be a fool: for once, just sit tight.

Listening to the teachings — you've already
heard hundreds of teachings,
But when you haven't grasped the meaning of even
one teaching,
What's the point of more listening?

Reflecting on the teachings — even though you've listened,
If the teachings aren't coming to mind when needed,
What's the point of more reflection? None.

Meditating according to the teachings —
If your meditation practice still isn't curing
The obscuring states of mind—forget about it!

You've added up just how many mantras you've done —
But you aren't accomplishing the kyerim* visualization.
You may get the forms of deities nice and clear —
But you're not putting an end to subject and object.
You may tame what appear to be evil spirits and ghosts,
But you're not training the stream of your own mind.

Your four fine sessions of sadhana practice,
So meticulously arranged —
Forget about them.

When you're in a good mood,
Your practice seems to have lots of clarity —
But you just can't relax into it.
When you're depressed,
Your practice is stable enough
But there's no brilliance to it.
As for awareness,
You try to force yourself into a rigpa*-like state,
As if stabbing a stake into a target!

When those yogic positions and gazes keep your mind stable
Only by keeping mind tethered —
Forget about them!

Giving high-sounding lectures
Doesn't do your mind-stream any good.
The path of analytical reasoning is precise and acute —
But it's just more delusion, good for nothing goat-shit.
The oral instructions are very profound
But not if you don't put them into practice.

Reading over and over those dharma texts
That just occupy your mind and make your eyes sore —
Forget about it!

You beat your little damaru drum — ting, ting —
And your audience thinks it's charming to hear.
You're reciting words about offering up your body,
But you still haven't stopped holding it dear.
You're making your little cymbals go cling, cling —
Without keeping the ultimate purpose in mind.

All this dharma-practice equipment
That seems so attractive —
Forget about it!

Right now, those students are all studying so very hard,
But in the end, they can't keep it up.

Today, they seem to get the idea,
But later on, there's not a trace left.
Even if one of them manages to learn a little,
He rarely applies his "learning" to his own conduct.

Those elegant dharma disciplines —
Forget about them!

This year, he really cares about you,
Next year, it's not like that.
At first, he seems modest,
Then he grows exalted and pompous.
The more you nurture and cherish him,
The more distant he grows.

These dear friends
Who show such smiling faces to begin with —
Forget about them!


           
Her smile seems so full of joy —
But who knows if that's really the case?
One time, it's pure pleasure,
Then it's nine months of mental pain.
It might be fine for a month,
But sooner or later, there's trouble.

People teasing; your mind embroiled —
Your lady-friend —
Forget about her!

These endless rounds of conversation
Are just attachment and aversion —
It's just more goat-shit, good for nothing at all.
At the time it seems marvelously entertaining,
But really, you're just spreading around stories
about other people's mistakes.
Your audience seems to be listening politely,
But then they grow embarrassed for you.

Useless talk that just make you thirsty —
Forget about it!

Giving teachings on meditation texts
Without yourself having
Gained actual experience through practice,
Is like reciting a dance-manual out loud
And thinking that's the same as actually dancing.

People may be listening to you with devotion,
But it just isn't the real thing.

Sooner or later, when your own actions
Contradict the teachings, you'll feel ashamed.

Just mouthing the words,
Giving dharma explanations that sound so eloquent—
Forget about it!

When you don't have a text, you long for it;
Then when you've finally gotten it,
you hardly look at it.

The number of pages seems few enough,
But it's a bit hard to find time to copy them all.
Even if you copied down all the dharma texts on earth,
You wouldn't be satisfied.

Copying down texts is a waste of time
(Unless you get paid) —
So forget about it!

Today, they're happy as clams —
Tomorrow, they're furious.
With all their black moods and white moods,
People are never satisfied.
Or even if they're nice enough,
They may not come through when you really need them,
Disappointing you even more.

All this politeness, keeping up a
Courteous demeanor —
Forget about it!

Worldly and religious work
Is the province of gentlemen.
Patrul, old boy — that's not for you.

Haven't you noticed what always happens?
An old bull, once you've gone to the trouble of
borrowing him for his services,
Seems to have absolutely no desire left in him at all—
(Except to go back to sleep).

Be like that — desireless.

Just sleep, eat, piss, shit.
There's nothing else in life that has to be done.

Don't get involved with other things:
They're not the point.

Keep a low profile,
Sleep.

In the triple universe
When you're lower than your company
You should take the low seat.

Should you happen to be the superior one,
Don't get arrogant.

There's no absolute need to have close friends;
You're better off just keeping to yourself.

When you're without any worldly
or religious obligations,
Don't keep on longing to acquire some!

If you let go of everything —
Everything, everything —
That's the real point!


Kyerim - Generation stage visualization practice
Rigpa - Normative Awareness

Patrul Rinpoche (1808-1887) (translated by C Wilkinson)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 14, 2012, 04:16:26 PM
Our true Guru is God alone. He transcends all guNAs (qualities). He is beyond all forms. He is the only one who can dispel (drive out) the darkness of ignorance and light the lamp of supreme Wisdom.

(http://www.finewallpaperss.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/sabka-malik-ek-sai-baba.jpg)

(shirdi sAi bAbA)



In our quest for Truth, we seem to forget the God. We are so caught up with our mental ramblings that we are forgetting the Supreme Truth that is GOD! God is the only GURU that is always available and is available without any doubts and questions! it flashed from within, revealing how little faith we seem to be having after all towards God! unknowingly, we seem to forget God, and go about searching whole world for Guru. First unless we truth God, whole-heartedly, it would be difficult to be found by a Guru!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 14, 2012, 04:38:29 PM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-33hpTdsGPU4/UCbIBuBmMZI/AAAAAAAAH60/Ikg90A1K0x4/s1600/god.jpg)     त्वमेव माता च पिता त्वमेव ।
त्वमेव बन्धुश्च सखा त्वमेव ।
त्वमेव विद्या द्रविणम् त्वमेव ।
त्वमेव सर्वम् मम देव देव ॥


tvamEva mAtAca pitA tvamEva .
tvamEva bandhushca sakhA tvamEva .
tvamEva vidyA draviNam tvamEva .
tvamEva sarvam mama dEva dEv ..

(O' God), Thou art my Mother and father
Thou art my relation, and friend
Thou art the knowledge and the real wealth
Thou art all for me, O' God of Gods



Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 14, 2012, 05:04:11 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Nice. Saint Manikkavachagar gives the same idea in his Koil Mootha Tirupadigam, in Tiruvachakam, Verse 1.

உடையாள் உன்தன் நடுவிருக்கும் உடையாள் நடுவுள் நீயிருத்தி
அடியேன் நடுவுள் இருவீரும் இருப்பதானால் அடியேன்உன்
அடியார் நடுவுள் இருக்கும் அருளைப்புரி யாய் பொன்னம்பலத்தெம்
முடியா முதலே என்கருத்து முடியும் வண்ணம் முன்னின்றே. 378


Uma is in your Heat, You are in Uma's Heart. Both of you are in my Heart.
Thus, you gave the fortune of remaining with your ardent devotees.
Please give me the chance to culminate this birth which is unending. And
then I can remain with you both!

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 14, 2012, 08:50:36 PM
Stray thoughts...

Most times, it is not knowledge that helps, but, patience, it is patience that truly helps. Wait, just wait! Nothing need be done! it will all end soon!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 15, 2012, 07:04:43 AM
Once it so happened, that a sadhak of Yoga came to Shirdi with Nanasaheb Chandorkar. He had studied all the works on Yoga, including the Yoga-sutras of Patanjali, but had no practical experience. He could not concentrate his mind and attain samadhi even for a short time. He thought that if Sai Baba be pleased with him, He will show him the way to attain samadhi for a long time. With this object in view he came to Shirdi, and when he went to the Masjid he saw Sai Baba eating bread with onion. On seeing this, a thought arose in his mind - `How can this man, eating stale bread with raw onion, solve my difficulties and help me?' Sai Baba read his mind and said to Nanasaheb - "Oh Nana, he who has the power to digest onion, should eat it and none else". Hearing this remark, the yogi was wonder-struck and then he fell at Baba's Feet with complete surrender. With pure and open mind, he asked his difficulties and got their solution from Baba. Thus being satisfied and happy, he left Shirdi with Baba's Udi and blessings.


(shrI sAi satcharithrA)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 15, 2012, 03:19:11 PM
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c0.0.316.316/p403x403/522180_475981869108443_1794027921_n.jpg)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 16, 2012, 07:59:55 AM
Arutprakasa Vallalar Chidambaram Ramalingam, popularly known as Vallalar established the Sathiya Gnana Sabhai (Hall of True Knowledge).

Teachings

The path of Samarasam contains four disciplines :

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 16, 2012, 10:13:11 AM
whom to see and adore,
Krishna or Rama,
both are so beautiful,
whom to see, both are one,
yet they appear as two
and myself as the third,
it pains, and yet it is beautiful!
if i see here, i long to see there,
if i see there, i long to see here!
O' God help me!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 16, 2012, 11:25:45 AM
Dear Nagaraj,

During communication inquiry (thanks to Perumal Swami), the commissioner asked several questions  to Sri Bhagavan:

.......

C: Swami, what is your name?

Sri Bhagavan: People call me in different names. Which name can I say?

C: People nowadays call you Sri Ramana Maharshi.

Sri Bhagavan: Yes.

C:  Are there friends and or enemies to you?

Sri Bhagavan: There is no friend for foe for me.

C: Who is your Guru?

Sri Bhagavan: I have no Guru no disciple.

C: Without Guru how can one attain things?

Sri Bhagavan: Yes. It is not possible.

C: Then who is your Guru?

Sri Bhagavan: Atma is my Guru.

C: Who is Guru for Atma?

Sri Bhagavan: For Atma, Atma is the Guru!

C: People say that you are an avatara of Subrahmanya?

Sri Bhagavan:  Yes. All others are also Me.    (laughter)

C: You say you are an ati-varna-asrami. Is there anyone like that today?

Sri Bhagavan: No. In the ancient days, there were.

C: Who are they?

Sri Bhagavan: Sukar, Jadabharatar and others.

C: About your asramam why do people speak different things?

Sri Bhagavan: It looks like that they say as their minds say!


Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 17, 2012, 07:17:24 PM
God/Guru/Self is our only companion. All else, fade in time!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 17, 2012, 08:01:40 PM
I am the Hindu, I am the christian,
I am the Buddhist, I am the Moslim,
I am the Agnostic, I am the Atheistic,
who am I?
O, Thou, who art, the bewilderment of silence!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 17, 2012, 09:32:35 PM
This is a classic old tamil movie song penned by Kannadasan

மயக்கமா கலக்கமா
மனதிலே குழப்பமா
வாழ்க்கையில் நடுக்கமா

வாழ்க்கை என்றால் ஆயிரம் இருக்கும்
வாசல் தோறும் வேதனை இருக்கும்
வந்த துன்பம் எது வந்தாலும்
வாடி நின்றால் ஓடுவதில்லை
வாடி நின்றால் ஓடுவதில்லை
எதையும் தாங்கும் இதயம் இருந்தால்
இறுதி வரைக்கும் அமைதி இருக்கும்
 
ஏழை மனதை மாளிகையக்கி
இரவும் பகலும் காவியம் பாடி
நாளைப் பொழுதை இறைவனுக்களித்து
நடக்கும் வாழ்வில் அமைதியைத் தேடு
நடக்கும் வாழ்வில் அமைதியைத் தேடு
உனக்கும் கீழே உள்ளவர் கோடி
நினைத்துப் பார்த்து நிம்மதி நாடு


    Are you dazed and queasy?
Is there confusion in your heart?
Is there uncertainty in your life?

Life has thousands of problems in it
Every one’s house has anxieties (not just you)
Whatever the trouble is
If you wilt and stop, they don’t go away
If you wilt and stop, they don’t go away
If you have a heart that can endure anything
There will be peace until the end

Make the poor heart a palace
Sing poetically about night and day (sadness and joy)
Dedicate tomorrow’s time/worries to god and
Look for peace in your present life
There are crores of people worse off than you
Think about that and feel grateful and peaceful

(http://www.gptm.org/gw/images/kannadasan.png)


(http://www.tropicalchocolateco.com/images/flowers.png)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMWH4GpzhU8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMWH4GpzhU8&feature=related)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 18, 2012, 11:57:05 AM
Though he was alive, Kannadasan, spread a rumor that he was dead.

Next morning about 100 people came to his house. Of them 20 were his relatives, 20 were his friends who adored his poems,
and 60 were his creditors, including one 'agent' who was selling pethidine injections to him, secretly.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 18, 2012, 04:41:56 PM
(http://wordbreath.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/broken-hearted.jpg?w=690)

पोथि पढि-पढि जग मुआ, पंडित भयो न कोए ।
ढाई आखर प्रेम के, जो पढै सो पंडित होए ॥


Reading books everyone died, none became any wise
One who reads the word of Love, only becomes wise

(http://www.oocities.org/ssksearch/kabir.gif)

(kabIr)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 18, 2012, 05:42:48 PM
Duncan Greenlees quoted a few verses from Sri Bhagavatam:

'See the Self in yourself like the pure ether  in all beings, in and out.'

'Unashamed, fall prostrate before even an outcast, a cow or an an ass with pure love.'

'So long as 'I' am not perceived in all, worship all with body and mind.'

'With right knowledge see all as Brahman. This once clear, all doubts are at an end and you will remain withdrawn in
the Self.'

Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 20, 2012, 08:43:18 PM
stray thought...

all is, just about passing time. That is all!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 21, 2012, 04:20:38 PM
i have to say it out, that i was little averse to the great christian masses here in India, who engage in mass conversions, and speak extremely passionately in TV channels and so on. But since i got immersed into these wonderful revelations of the Lord. I am completely dissolved of any aversion. I see a sense of intense compassion that has arisen from within. Those conversions no longer trouble me, as it dawned to me that those who get converted go to the same lap of the Lord and conversion or baptism is a symbolic ritual of complete surrender or sharanagati on the Lord.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 21, 2012, 05:22:11 PM
ದಿನಸದಿಂ ದಿವಸಕ್ಕೆ ನಿಮಿಷದಿಂ ನಿಮಿಷಕ್ಕೆ
ಭವಿಷಿಯವ ಚಿಂತಿಸದೆ ಬದುಕ ನೊಕುತಿರು
ವಿವರಗಳ ಜೊಡಿಸುವ ಯಜಮಾನ ಬೇರಿಹನು
ಸವೆಸು ನೇಂ ಜನುಮವನು ಮಂಕುತಿಮ್ಮ


dhinasadhin dhivasakkE nimiShadhin nimiShakkE
BaviShyava cinthisadE badhuku nOkuthiru
vivaragaLa jOdisuva yajamAna bErihanu
savEsu nIn janumavanu mankuthimma

Day to day, moment to moment,
Live on, without worrying about the future.
There is a Master to fit in the detail;
You only need to endure. mankuthimma

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 21, 2012, 05:31:06 PM
Drinking tea, eating rice,
I pass my time as it comes;
Looking down at the stream,
Looking up at the mountain,
How serene and relaxed I feel indeed!


(Pao tzu Wen chi)

What life can compare to this?
Sitting quietly by the window,
I watch the leaves fall and the flowers bloom,
As the seasons come and go.


(Hsue tou)


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 21, 2012, 05:39:41 PM
Ma-tsu was the inventor of almost all famous 'hard' Zen methods. Punches, kicks, and even beatings, and deafening shouts
were his most favorite.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 21, 2012, 06:05:02 PM
A man once saw Mother Teresa “cleaning the wounds of a leper and said, ‘I wouldn’t do that for a million dollars.’
Mother Teresa replied, ‘Neither would I. But I would gladly do it for Christ.’"


[James Martin, My Life with the Saints, p. 164.]

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 21, 2012, 06:19:17 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. Christ or Siva is the most important treasure, priceless.

See this Manikkavachagar' verse in Yathirai Pathu, Decad on Pilgrimage, Tiruvachakam:

 நிற்பார் நிற்கநில் லாவுலகில் நில்லோம் இனிநாம் செல்வோமே
பொற்பால் ஒப்பாந் திருமேனிப் புயங்கன் ஆவான் பொன்னடிக்கே
நிற்பீர் எல்லாந் தாழாதே நிற்கும் பரிசே ஒருப்படுமின்
பிற்பால் நின்று பேழ்கணித்தாற் பெறுதற் கரியன் பெருமானே. 611

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 22, 2012, 10:04:16 AM
what a beautiful verse Sir, here is english translation:

This earth is not going to stand for long., Let people who want to stand here, let them stand.
We shall not stand here; We shall now go.
To the golden hued One who wears serpents as His ornaments.
Let us go His golden feet!
Do not wait any longer, take up moving immediately,
If you stand behind  and wait in indecision,
He will become rare to attain, our Lord.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 22, 2012, 10:10:32 AM
Our body is our Luggage.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 22, 2012, 01:36:50 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan said during His terminal illness years: 'The one which has to be carried by four, how can I alone carry for long?


Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 24, 2012, 10:01:00 PM
(http://cdn.cultureunplugged.com/thumbnails/lg/8583.jpg)

இணிது இணிது எகாண்தம் இணிது

inidhu inidhu ekAntham inidhu

'Sweetest of all is being alone'

(avvaiyAr)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 25, 2012, 06:50:39 AM
jnyAna or Bhakti, both happens only when He wills!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: swayam on November 25, 2012, 06:41:35 PM
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

those who get converted go to the same lap of the Lord and conversion or baptism is a symbolic ritual of complete surrender or sharanagati on the Lord.



Hmmm... and if they would have stayed in the same religion (without conversion) wouldn't they have reached the same Lord !!!!!!.

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 25, 2012, 06:53:32 PM
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

those who get converted go to the same lap of the Lord and conversion or baptism is a symbolic ritual of complete surrender or sharanagati on the Lord.



Hmmm... and if they would have stayed in the same religion (without conversion) wouldn't they have reached the same Lord !!!!!!.

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

I do not think i had conveyed something in that line.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 25, 2012, 07:07:06 PM
and God fulfils himself in many ways lest one good custom should corrupt the world.

Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 25, 2012, 07:18:29 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Sri Bhagavan did not say anything in support of conversion. In fact many devotees of West asked Him whether they should
get converted into Hinduism. Sri Bhagavan said: Why a true Christian can still be a good Christian and attain the Self.
So also a Moslem. So also a Parsi. Because Atma (the Self) is the same for all. Self Inquiry speaks about mind merging with
the Self and not with Jesus, or Allah or Siva.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 25, 2012, 08:30:59 PM
Dear Sir,

I concur with your views. What do we know Sir what karma holds in each persons life. What can we really do, it does not befit us to go and tell somebody do not get converted or tell the converters not to convert. I truly believe in the spirit of Bhagavan's grand dictum The ordainer controls the fate of souls as per destinies, what ever is destines to happen will happen, no matter how much we may avoid it and what ever is destined not to happen will never happen no matter whatever we may try to make it happen. What is important in ones own evolution is TO COME TO TERMS WITH THE TRUTH in any way. This is all that is required. Whether anybody gets enlightened or not is not the real purpose.

But I truly believe the purpose of any religion PRIMARILY SHOULD OFFER A PERSON SOME SOLACE. If a person fails to derive Solace then there is nothing wrong in going in search for that solace, it does not mean there is some issue with any religion, but just a person chooses what is simple and conducive to ones HEART. Such a person too, is in search of truth, peace, happiness, contentment and so on.

What is conversion is truly not even a conversion! These are only sundry matter for one who gets solace! I felt more than being true christian or true hindu or a true moslim or a true buddhist, one has to be TRUE TO ONESELF, TRUE TO ONES HEART! This is the bottom line. He is neither christian hindu moslim or buddhist.

He is simply in quest for truth.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: swayam on November 25, 2012, 09:16:48 PM
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

those who get converted go to the same lap of the Lord and conversion or baptism is a symbolic ritual of complete surrender or sharanagati on the Lord.



Hmmm... and if they would have stayed in the same religion (without conversion) wouldn't they have reached the same Lord !!!!!!.

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

I do not think i had conveyed something in that line.



Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

No Sir, you got me wrong. I was not trying to comment on your musing. In fact I enjoy reading them. Thanks !!!.

I was in general ranting about conversion, not about your opinion about conversion

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 25, 2012, 09:23:31 PM
Sri Swayam,

I understand :) it is the same actually, i too am just ranting, finally coming to terms after all those thoughts about conversions, multi religions etc... i am happy i found a common spirit in all, the sweetness that is the same in all sweets :) just had enough of varieties all these whiles.

Oneness is sweet.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 26, 2012, 01:36:15 PM
Dear Swayam, Nagaraj,


நல்கா தொழியான் நமக்கென்றும் நாமம் பிதற்றி நயனனீர்
மல்கா வாழ்த்தா வாய்குழறா வணங்கா மனத்தால் நினைந்துருகிப்
பல்காலுன்னப் பாவித்துப் பரவிப் பொன்னம் பலமென்றே
ஒல்கா நிற்கும் உயிர்க்கிரங்கி அருளாய் என்னை உடையானே. 387

திருச்சிற்றம்பலம்


What else one can do? One can keep on blabbering His name, till the mouth gets tired and goes wobbling, one can constantly
think of Him and melt. All the time there is a bhavana that there is only Ponambalam, the Golden Hall, the refuge of all,. O Lord
take pity on this jiva and grace, O My Master!

Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 27, 2012, 05:04:14 AM
(http://www.yogaasitis.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/swami-sivananda2.jpg)     
do not fill your heart with bitterness over things and events that went wrong.
Fill your heart with gratitude for the things and events that went right.
Forget the displeasure of being hurt by someone.
Remember those who admired you for your goodness.

Repay any good you received from anyone with gratitude and more good.
Every moment is a thanksgiving moment.


(Swami Sivananda)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: swayam on November 27, 2012, 07:05:44 AM
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Thank you Sir. Timely one !!

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 27, 2012, 02:02:14 PM
stray thought...

live life in a manner that leaves very little room for regret.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 27, 2012, 02:11:01 PM
Dear Nagaraj, and others,


கொள்ளார் பிளவக லாத்தடங் கொங்கையர் கொவ்வைச்செவ்வாய்
விள்ளேன் எனினும் விடுதிகண்டாய் விழுத்தொழுப்பின்
உள்ளேன் புறமல்லேன் உத்தர கோசமங் கைக்கரசே
கள்ளேன் ஒழியவும் கண்டுகொண்டாண்டதெக் காரணமே. 106

காருறு கண்ணியர் ஐம்புலன் ஆற்றங் கரைமரமாய்
வேருறு வேனை விடுதிகண்டாய் விளங்குந்திருவார்
ஊருறை வாய்மன்னும் உத்தரகோசமங்கைக் கரசே
வாருறு பூண்முலை யாள்பங்க என்னை வளர்ப்பவனே. 107


Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 27, 2012, 02:33:33 PM
Dear Sir,

Request to kindly provide a brief english translation :)


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 27, 2012, 02:36:32 PM
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.


William Butler Yeats

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 27, 2012, 03:09:43 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

The Tamizh poem from Manikkavachagar says:

With the dark eyes of the women, all my five senses are moving here and there like a tree close on the waters of a river,
(the river floods make the tree's roots get damaged due to floods). You have to save me. O Lord of Tiruvarur, O the One staying
in Uttarakosa Mangai, the concorporate of Uma with gold studded blouse around her breasts, O save me and make me grow
fit for your Abode!

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 27, 2012, 06:26:24 PM
முருகா ... முருகா ...

அழகென்ற சொல்லுக்கு முருகா (2)

உந்தன் அருளன்றி உலகிலே பொருளேது முருகா

அழகென்ற சொல்லுக்கு முருகா
உந்தன் அருளன்றி உலகிலே பொருளேது முருகா

(அழகென்ற சொல்லுக்கு முருகா)

சுடராக வந்தவேல் முருகா
கொடும் சூரரை போரிலே வென்றவேல் முருகா (2)

கனிக்காக மனம் நொந்த முருகா (2)

முக்கனியான தமிழ்தந்த செல்வமே முருகா

(அழகென்ற ... )

ஆண்டியாய் நின்றவேல் முருகா
உன்னை அண்டினோர் வாழ்விலே இன்பமே முருகா (2)

பழம் நீ அப்பனே முருகா (2)

ஞானப் பழம் உன்னை அல்லாது பழமேது முருகா

(அழகென்ற ... )

உந்தன் அருளன்றி உலகிலே பொருளேது முருகா
(அழகென்ற ... )

குன்றாறும் குடிகொண்ட முருகா
பக்தர் குறை நீக்கும் வள்ளல் நீ அல்லவோ முருகா (2)

சக்தி உமை பாலனே முருகா (2)

மனித சக்திக்கு எட்டாத தத்துவமே முருகா

(அழகென்ற ... )

ப்ரணவப் பொருள்கண்ட திரு முருகா
பரம் பொருளுக்கு குருவான தேசிகா முருகா (2)

அரகரா ஷண்முகா முருகா (2)

என்றே பாடுவோர் எண்ணத்தில் ஆடுவாய் முருகா

(அழகென்ற ... )

அன்பிற்கு எல்லையோ முருகா
உந்தன் அருளுக்கு எல்லைதான் இல்லையே முருகா (2)

கண்கண்ட தெய்வமே முருகா (2)

எந்தன் கலியுக வரதனே அருள்தாரும் முருகா

(அழகென்ற ... )

உந்தன் அருளன்றி உலகிலே பொருளேது முருகா

(அழகென்ற ... )

முருகா ... முருகா ... முருகா ... .


(http://www.theshivaexperience.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/12834453539884.jpg)

  azhagendRa sollukku murugA
For the word 'azhagu' (beauty), Oh, MurugA!

undhan aruLandRi ulagilE poruLEdhu murugA
can there be any explanation other than that
of your Grace in this world? Oh, MurugA?

sudarAga vandhavEl murugA
You came in the form of 'rays'
(from the third eye of Lord ShivA),
Oh, MurugA!

kodum sUrarai pOrilE vendRavEl murugA
You won in the battle with the terrible
'SUrApadman' (the dEmon), Oh, MurugA
with the mighty 'vEl' (spear)!

kanikkAga manam nondha murugA
You were saddened (and angered)
during the episode of the 'fruit',
Oh, MurugA!

mukkaniyAna thamizhthandha selvamE murugA
You gave us the 'three fruit combination' -
the 'Thamizh' language (three aspects of
which are: iyal - Literature; isai - Music; and
nAdagam - Drama), Oh, precious MurugA!

ANdiyAi nindRavEl murugA
You stood as an 'ANdi' (the form of a recluse -
in Pazhani), Oh, MurugA with the mighty
'vEl' (spear)!

unnai aNdinOr vAzhvilE inbamE murugA
those who sought refuge in You will
have their lives filled with joy, Oh, MurugA!

pazham nee appanE murugA
You are the fruit (of intellect), Oh, MurugA!

gnAnap pazham unnai allAdhu pazhamEdhu
murugA
there can be no intellectual 'fruit' other than You,
Oh, MurugA!

kundRARum kudikoNda murugA
You reside in the six hills, Oh, MurugA!

pakthar kuRai neekkum vaLLal nee
allavO murugA
Isn't it You? The generous One who
eliminates the deficiencies of Your
Devotees? Oh, MurugA?

sakthi umai bAlanE murugA
You are the Son of Shakthi (UmAdhEvi),
Oh, MurugA!

manidha sakthikku ettAtha thaththuvamE murugA
You are the 'philosophy' which is unattainable
by ordinary human strength, Oh, MurugA!

praNavap poruLkaNda thiru murugA
You saw (show) the meaning of 'praNavam' (Aum),
Oh, MurugA!

param poruLukku guruvAna dhEsigA murugA
You became the Great Teacher for the Almighty
Lord ShivA, Oh, MurugA!

aragarA shaNmugA murugA
'ara - harA - shaNmugA - murugA'

endRE pAduvOr eNNaththil AduvAi murugA
You dance in the minds of those who sing
(with the above lines - 'ara - harA -
shaNmugA - murugA'), Oh, MurugA!

anbiRku ellaiyO murugA
Is there a limit to (Your) Love? Oh, MurugA?

undhan aruLukku ellaithAn illaiyE murugA
There is no limit to Your Grace, Oh, MurugA!

kaNkaNdadheivamE murugA
You are the God who appeared in our
vision, Oh, MurugA!

endhan kaliyuga varadhanE aruLthArum murugA
my Generous One in this aeon - (kali-yugA),
Give us Your Grace! Oh, MurugA!

murugA ... murugA ... murugA ... .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTkeCO30_Ro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTkeCO30_Ro)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 27, 2012, 06:36:12 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Nice poem. Muruga is called six faced Siva. Arunagiri Nathar calls him as Siva only in many of his songs. Kripananda Variyar used
to say: There is no God so quick in conferring benefits in kali yuga as dried jinger is the cure for many ailments.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 29, 2012, 02:49:25 PM
Discern and [get] detached, before nature snatches from you.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 29, 2012, 06:36:09 PM
when we discern that the ones that cause any form of hurt to us, are just an instrument in the hands of God, so as to enable us to endure our prArabdha karmA, then all differences cease, good and bad are alike, love and hate are alike. The knot is broken. No hurt feelings will emanate from within anymore. Compassion fills the heart for the ones that are causing any form of hurt.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on November 29, 2012, 08:27:08 PM
Food for contemplation:

It is said, what we are, is because of our past karmA! Tracing back, how did the first karmA originate? :)
.
.
.
.
.
.

All this is just lIlA!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 02, 2012, 08:01:18 PM
Wherever we go, the nature is the same, and we tend to forget it.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 03, 2012, 02:30:28 PM
I muse for myself, it is wise only to talk about Ramana and his teachings alone here!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 03, 2012, 02:44:31 PM
Traps of knowledge are much greater than the traps of ignorance.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on December 03, 2012, 02:45:35 PM
Dear Sri Nagaraj, That is not the point. I use,myself,teachings of many teachers. But i know who is the Boss. :) Also,i deffend,or better to say,stand behind my own beliefs. You dont need to agree,and stand for Your own. :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 04, 2012, 02:37:24 PM
You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough.

(William Blake)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 04, 2012, 02:39:31 PM
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.

(Confucius)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 05, 2012, 06:42:41 AM
Oh God,
I don't like your separation, but
your grace is so great that you
show yourself in separation as well
bewilderment nut head are Thou!

I don't like pain of separation, but
your grace is so great that you
make even pain of separation,
sweetness nectar unparalleled
bewilderment nut head are Thou!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 05, 2012, 12:46:49 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

See this Manikkavachagar' verse in Anandamamalai, tiruvachakam, 50.5: 

தாயாய் முலையைத் தருவானே தாரா தொழிந்தாற் சவலையாய்
நாயேன் கழிந்து போவேனோ நம்பி யினித்தான் நல்குதியே
தாயே யென்றுன் தாளடைந்தேன் தயாநீ என்பால் இல்லையே
நாயேன் அடிமை உடனாக ஆண்டாய் நான்தான் வேண்டாவோ. 647

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 05, 2012, 07:51:19 PM
There are two types of people:

Those who come into a room and say, "Well, here I am!", and

those who say, "Ah, there you are".

Frederick L. Collins

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 05, 2012, 07:53:20 PM
Believe those who are seeking the truth.
Doubt those who find it.

(Andre Gide)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 05, 2012, 07:58:22 PM
If you take fire into your heart, your house is likely to burn.

(Alyson)

To know yet to think that one does not know is best;
Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty.

(Lao-Tzu)

A man never speaks of himself without losing thereby. His self-accusations are always believed; his slef-praise disbelieved.

(Michel de Montagne)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 06, 2012, 07:14:26 AM
Adi Sankaracharya wrote a number of Vedantic works for imparting knowledge of the Self and the Universal Spirit. He also composed a number of hymns to foster Bhakti in the hearts of men.One of these hymns is the famous Bhajagovindam. The way of devotion is not different from the way of knowledge or Jnana. When intelligence matures and lodges securely in the mind, it becomes wisdom. When wisdom is integrated with life, and issues out in action, it becomes Bhakti. Knowledge, when it becomes fully mature, is Bhakti. If it does not get transformed into Bhakti, such knowledge is useless tinsel. To believe that Jnana and Bhakti, knowledge and devotion, are different from each other, is ignorance.If Shri Adi Sankara himself who drank the ocean of Jnana as easily as one picks water from the palm of one’s hand, sang in his later years hymns to develop devotion, it is enough to show that Jnana and Bhakti are one and the same. Sri Sankara has packed into the Bhajagovindam song the substance of all Vedanta, and set the oneness of Jnana and Bhakti to melodious music.

(rAjAji)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on December 06, 2012, 07:33:49 AM
Nagaraj,
This passage is one very dear to me.So very succinctly put and so expressive.Thanks very much.
Namaskar.
Title: Fruit from the Garden of Wisdom
Post by: Nagaraj on December 06, 2012, 10:20:25 AM
Bhakti and Jnana

I have been telling you sometimes that there is some secret meaning behind the last words in the Eleventh Chapter of the Gita when we are told that bhakti is supreme. The bhakti that Sri Krishna speaks of here is not ordinary obeisance to an idol. It is not a mass you perform in the church. It is a meeting of your being before one Absolute. Therefore Bhagavan Sri Krishna says "Not charity, not philanthropy, not study, not austerity, is capable of bringing about this great vision that you had, Arjuna! Only by devotion can I be seen, contacted. Only by devotion am I capable of being known, seen and entered into". These three words are used in the Bhagavad Gita at the end of the Eleventh Chapter - knowing, seeing and entering. Arjuna knew and saw, but never entered into It. Therefore, he was the same Arjuna after the Bhagavad Gita also. He never entered into the Supreme Being.

Now, religion is knowing, seeing and entering into. Knowing is considered by such thinkers like Ramanuja, the great propounder of the Visishtadvaita philosophy, as inferior to devotion. Knowledge or jnana is not equal to bhakti, says Ramanuja. And Acharya Sankara says that jnana is superior to bhakti. It may appear that they are quarelling with each other. Really, they are not. They have some emphasis laid on different aspects of the same question. Why does Bhagavan Sri Krishna say that nothing can make you fit to see the vision of God, to behold Him, except bhakti? It would seem that He speaks like Ramanuja and not like Sankara. But they are only speaking in different languages ...the same thing. There is no contradiction between them. "Knowing, seeing and entering into" signifies the process of contacting God by degrees. There are, in the parlance of Vedanta, two types of knowledge - paroksha jnana and aparoksha jnana. Paroksha jnana is indirect knowledge. Aparoksha jnana is direct knowledge. "God exists" is indirect knowledge. "I am inseparable from God-being" is direct knowledge. Now, we do not feel that we are inseparable from God-being. That knowledge has not come to us. So we have not entered such a height of religious consciousness as to be convinced that we are inseparable from God's existence. But we are convinced enough to feel that God exists. He is, but we have not gone to such an extent to feel that we are inseparable from Him. That is a little higher stage. Jnana has come, but Darshana or vision of God has not come. We have not seen the Virat in front of us, notwithstanding the fact that we are seeing Virat. The whole cosmos is that, but we have somehow segregated our personality from Virat consciousness. A cell in the body is seeing the body as if it is outside it.

What would be the condition or the experience of a cell in our own body notionally isolating itself from the organism to which it belongs and considering the body as a world outside it? You can imagine the stupidity of it. This is exactly what we are doing. We think the world is outside of us, though we are a part of the world. So, the idea that the Virat is an object of perception, that the world is external to us, is notional, not realistic. All our difficulties are notional in the end. They have no reality or substance in themselves.

By bhakti Ramanuja means that love of God which supersedes intellectual activity or a mere knowing that God exists. And when Sankara says that jnana or knowledge is superior, he means knowledge which is identical with being and which is the same as Para bhakti or the love of God where the soul is in communion with the Being of God.

The highest devotion is the same as the highest knowledge. jnana and Para bhakti are the same. The gauna bhakti or secondary love of God, which is more ritualistic and more formal, is inferior. But Ramanuja's bhakti is the surging of the soul and the melting of personality in God-love as we hear in the case of Spinoza, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Mirabai and Tukaram. Their bhakti was not simply love of God as that of church-men or temple-men. It is a kind of ecstasy in which the personality has lost itself in God-love and God-being. That is jnana and that is bhakti. So there is no difference between Ramanuja and Sankara in the ultimate reaches. And Bhagavan Sri Krishna's dictum is also of a similar character.

By gradually losing attachment to this obsessional notion that we are this little Mr. or Mrs. Body and that we are located in a part of the physical world called India or America or Japan or Russia, we slowly try to become citizens of a larger dimension which is wider than this earth, perhaps larger than even the solar system and this physical cosmos.

When we enter into the true religious life, we become real children of God.

(Swami Krishnananda, Diving Life Society)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 07, 2012, 07:59:50 AM
वाचो वेगं मनसः वेगं क्रोधवेगं
जिह्वावेगमुदरोपस्थवेगम् । 
एतान् वेगान् यो विषहेत धीरः
सर्वामपीमां पृथ्वीं स शिष्यात् ॥


vaacho vegam manasah vegam krodhavegam
jihvaavegamudaropasthavegam
etaan vegaan yo vishaheta dhirah
sarvaamapimaam prithvim sa shishyaath

A dheera (steadfast) man who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind's demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world.

(Chaitanya Mahaprabhu)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 07, 2012, 07:10:53 PM
Path is myth, truly there is no path. Path is just a creation of mind which is said to not exist!

What is, is just the destination alone, all the time!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 15, 2012, 08:00:23 PM
Life is a journey,

from the destination
to the destination.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 16, 2012, 06:46:40 PM
ಕಾಯಕವ ಚರಿಸುತ್ತ, ಮಾನಸವ ಸಯ್ತಿಡುತ ।
ಆಯಸಂಬಡಿಸದವೊಲಂತರಾತ್ಮನನು ॥
ಮಾಯೆಯೊಡನಾಡುತ್ತ, ಬೊಮ್ಮನನು ಭಜಿಸುತ್ತ ।
ಆಯುವನು ಸಾಗಿಸೆಲೊ – ಮಂಕುತಿಮ್ಮ ॥ ೭೩೬ ॥


kAyakava charisutta, mAnasava saytiDuta ।
aayasam baDisadavol antaraatmananu ॥
mAyeyoDane aaDutta, bommananu bhajisutta ।
aayuvanu sAgiselo – Mankutimma ॥ 736 ॥

“Do your duty. Console your mind. Don’t let your inner conscience get anxious.
Play (revel) with the grand illusion of this world. Always keep God in mind.
You must get through your life like this.” – Mankutimma


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 16, 2012, 06:49:35 PM
ಬುದ್ಧಿಪ್ರಕಾಶದಿಂದಂತರನುಭವಶೋಧೆ ।
ಸಿದ್ಧವಾ ಶೋಧೆಯಿಂ ಸತ್ಯಸಂವೀಕ್ಷೆ ॥
ಶುದ್ಧಸತ್ಯವ ಜೀವಿತಪ್ರಶ್ನೆಗನ್ವಯಿಪ ।
ಪದ್ಧತಿಯೆ ಧರ್ಮವೆಲೊ – ಮಂಕುತಿಮ್ಮ ॥ ೫೪೫ ॥


buddhi prakAshadinda antar anubhava shOdhe ।
siddhavA shOdheyim satya samvIkShe ॥
shuddha satyava jIvitaprashnege anvayipa ।
paddhatiye dharmavelo – Mankutimma ॥ 545 ॥

“One must search inwards for experiences using the light of one’s intellect.
From that, you will find the universal truth. Applying that universal truth to
every day dilemmas and resolving them is called ‘Dharma’ –
nothing more complex.” – Mankutimma


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 16, 2012, 06:52:53 PM
ಮಾಯೆಯೆಂಬಳ ಸೃಜಿಸಿ, ತಾಯನಾಗಿಸಿ ಜಗಕೆ ।
ಆಯಸಂಗೊಳುತ ಸಂಸಾರಿಯಾಗಿರುವ ॥
ನಾಯಕ ಬ್ರಹ್ಮನ್ ಅನುಯಾಯಿಗಳು ನಾವೆಲ್ಲ ।
ಹೇಯವದರೊಳಗೇನೊ – ಮಂಕುತಿಮ್ಮ ॥ ೬೦೨ ॥


mAyeyembaLa sRujisi, tAyanAgisi jagake ।
AyAsangoLuta samsAriyAgiruva aa ॥
nAyaka brahman anuyAyigaLu nAvella ।
heyavadaroLage Eno – Mankutimma ॥ 602 ॥

“He created the illusion (Maya) so that he could amuse himself.
He made her (Maya) the mother of this world. He seems to be
busy running this world. Such is the nature of the creator.
He is the leader and we all follow him.
What is the difficulty in accepting this fact?” – Mankutimma


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 16, 2012, 07:06:39 PM
Mankuthimma says:

Like Kaikeyi rocked the brains of the old king Dasaratha and wanted to rule the kingdom with her son, Maya will in the guise
of making happy Siva, takes over and  rules this world, as per her wish. She rocks us the people, but preserves us in the final
analysis, Mankuthimma. (146)

Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 16, 2012, 07:16:24 PM
what a find Subramanian Sir, truly nice one! :) yes, the power of maya is unlimited. Other day Bharati Theertha Swamigal was saying in his talks, there is nothing impossible for Maya, such is its power. Here is the verse, which you have quoted:

ರಾಯ ಮುದಿದಶರಥನಾಡಿಸುತ ಕೈಕೇಯಿ ।
ಸ್ವೀಯ ವಶದಲಿ ಕೋಸಲವನಾಳಿದಂತೆ ॥
ಮಾಯೆ ಬೊಮ್ಮನ ಬಿನದವಡಿಸಿ ನಮ್ಮೀ ಜಗವ ।
ಕಾಯುವಳು ತನ್ನಿಚ್ಛೆ – ಮಂಕುತಿಮ್ಮ ॥ ೧೪೬ ॥


rAya mudi dasharathana ADisuta kaikEyi ।
svIya vashadali kOsalavanu ALidante ॥
mAye bommana binadavaDisi nammI jagava ।
kAyuvaLu tannicChe – Mankutimma ॥ 146 ॥

“Kaikeyi ruled the Kosala kingdom the way she wanted, with total independence because she amused the old king Dasharatha. Maya seems to be running our world as she pleases by amusing the creator.” – Mankutimma

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 16, 2012, 07:20:52 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. Sri Soundarya Lahari says: When the whole world is destroyed, Brhama dies, Vishnu also closes his eyes, Indra and Devas
are dead gone, You Paraskati, dance with Siva in merry!

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 16, 2012, 08:01:28 PM
Stray thought...

when we understand ourselves well, so the world will. The external world is just a reflection of what is within. That which is within is without.

Title: a wise donkey
Post by: Nagaraj on December 18, 2012, 01:38:07 PM
One day a farmer’s donkey fell down into a well. The animal cried miserably for hours as the farmer tried to figure out what to do. Finally he decided that the animal was old and the well needed to be covered up anyway, it just wasn’t worth it to retrieve the donkey anymore. He invited his neighbors to come over and help him. They all grabbed a shovel and began to shovel dirt into the well. At first, the donkey realized what was happening and cried horribly. Then, to everyone’s amazement, he quieted down. A few shovel loads later, the farmer finally looked down the well and was astonished at what he saw. With every shovel of dirt that hit his back, the donkey was doing something astonishing. He would shake it off and take a step up. As the farmer’s neighbors continued to shovel dirt on top of the animal, he would shake it off and take a step up. Pretty soon, everyone was amazed as the donkey stepped up over the edge of the well and trotted off! Life is going to shovel dirt on you, all kinds of dirt. The trick to getting out of the well is to shake it off and take a step up. Each of our troubles is a stepping-stone. We can get out of the deepest wells just by not stopping, never giving up! Shake it off and take a step up!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 18, 2012, 01:51:12 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

It is a nice story. Thanks.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Beloved Abstract on December 18, 2012, 07:01:35 PM
oh , children , don't you weep ,
if the road is long .
all of us are prayers of action ,
on our way to god ,
on our way to god .

some of us are long and rambling ,
sometimes lost for years .
some of us are small and holy ,
beautiful and clear .

oh , children , don't you weep ,
if the road is long .
all of us are prayers of action ,
on our way to god ,
on our way to god .

........... Tom Rapp

 :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 19, 2012, 05:26:24 AM
Nice beloved abstract, :) btw, 'beloved abstract' are two wonderful words.

'all of us are prayers of action'

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 19, 2012, 03:17:29 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Here is a beautiful verse from Abhirami Bhattar in Abhirami Andaati:


30: அன்றே தடுத்து என்னை ஆண்டுகொண்டாய், கொண்டது அல்ல என்கை
நன்றே உனக்கு? இனி நான் என் செயினும் நடுக்கடலுள்
சென்றே விழினும், கரையேற்றுகை நின் திருவுளமோ.-
ஒன்றே, பல உருவே, அருவே, என் உமையவளே.

You have taken over me and ruled over me even on that day. (I am henceforth your servant).  If I do good things or even if
I (do bad things) and fall into the mid sea (bhava sagaram) it is your sankalpa to put me back ashore. You are One; You are
Many; You are nothing, non-form, O my Uma!

Arunachala Siva.
     
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 19, 2012, 04:26:21 PM
what a beautiful prayer it is, Sir!

கரையேற்றுகை நின் திருவுளமோ

yes, it is His sankalpa to pull us ashore. The faith that we are before our Ammaiappan, and that He will pull us ashore, what a feeling it brings forth from within! Other day, i heard some verses from Thaayumaanavar, in some music concert, i was greatly moved, i am trying to figure out those verses, once i find, i shall present them here.

These are the words of Sri Ramakrishna, in this regard -

One must propitiate the Divine Mother, the Primal Energy, in order to obtain God's grace. God Himself is Mahamaya, who deludes the world with Her illusion and conjures up the magic of creation, preservation, and destruction. She has spread this veil of ignorance before our eyes. We can go into the inner chamber only when She lets us pass through the door. Living outside, we see only outer objects, but not that Eternal Being, Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute. Therefore it is stated in the purna that deities like Brahma praised Mahamaya for the destruction of the demons Madhu and Kaitabha.

Everything depends on the will of God. The world is His play. He has created all these different things-great and small, strong and weak, good and bad, virtuous and vicious. This is all His maya, His sport.


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 19, 2012, 05:07:06 PM
Sir, here is one of the verse i was talking about, of Thayumanavar, it is soaked with emotion, i just fell in love with Thayumanavar, His grace in those moments had such lasting effect on me, words are beyond description:

தந்தை தாயுநீ என்னுயிர்த் துணையுநீ சஞ்சல மதுதீர்க்க
வந்த தேசிக வடிவுநீ உனையலால் மற்றொரு துணைகாணேன்
அந்தம் ஆதியும் அளப்பருஞ் சோதியே ஆதியே அடியார்தஞ்
சிந்தை மேவிய தாயுமா னவனெனுஞ் சிரகிரிப் பெருமானே. 10.


than-thai thAyun-I ennuyirth thuNaiyun-I sanjsala mathuthIrkka
van-tha thEsika vadivun-I unaiyalAl maRRoru thuNaikANEn
an-tham Athiyum aLapparunj sOthiyE AthiyE adiyArthanj
sin-thai mEviya thAyumA navanenunj sirakirip perumAnE. 10.

Unfortunately I am unable to provide the english translation. It would be a blessing if you or Sri Ravi can provide a translation for the benefit of everybody here and also myself as well.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 19, 2012, 05:21:42 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

I shall give the meaning of Tayumanavar's verse towards the end.

Here is Abhirami Bhattar's one more verse:

சிவபெருமானின் இடப்பாகத்தில் அமர்ந்தவளே!

44: தவளே இவள், எங்கள் சங்கரனார் மனை மங்கலமாம்
அவளே, அவர்தமக்கு அன்னையும் ஆயினள், ஆகையினால்,
இவளே கடவுளர் யாவர்க்கும் மேலை இறைவியும் ஆம்,
துவளேன், இனி ஒரு தெய்வம் உண்டாக மெய்த் தொண்டு செய்தே.

எங்கள் இறைவனாகிய சங்கரனின் இல்லத் துணைவியே! அவருக்கே அன்னையாகவும் (பராசக்தி ஈன்ற பரமசிவம்) ஆனவளே! ஆகையால் நீயே யாவர்க்கும் மேலானவள்! ஆகவே, உனக்கே இனி உண்மையான தொண்டு செய்வேன். ஆதலால், இனி நான் துன்பங்களால் துவள மாட்டேன். தாயே!

You are the housewife of Sankara. And also His Mother. So you are the greatest of all. So, I shall serve you only. I shall
therefore henceforth suffer and wilt under miseries.

Your Tayumanavar's beautiful verse:   

You are my Father! You are my Mother! You are my soul's support. You have come to remove all my worries and miseries,as
my Guru (Guru=God=Self). I find no other support than You. You are immeasurable without beginning and end. You have
taken hold of the Heart of devotees, O Thayumanava!* The Lord of Siragiri!**

* The Siva of Siragiri (Tiruchirapalli, Rockfort Temple. The saint poet got his name after that Siva. ** Siragiri = Tiruchirapalli
Rockfort Temple. It is a man made Hill, atop is the Fort.

Arunachala Siva.           
 
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 19, 2012, 05:31:00 PM
what joy, thanks so much Sir, gratitude! thanks also for that bit about Siragiri. what a beautiful verse yet again, you have provided,

உனக்கே இனி உண்மையான தொண்டு செய்வேன். ஆதலால், இனி நான் துன்பங்களால் துவள மாட்டேன். தாயே!

It brings up the bhaavam - "kurai onRRum illai" we are fine, we are all fine, as it is, as it is, now, exactly as we are.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 19, 2012, 05:46:29 PM
(http://a397.idata.over-blog.com/600x375/2/32/04/30/ramana-maharshi/1-avr_7.jpg)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on December 19, 2012, 07:12:36 PM
Nagaraj,
I am delighted to see that you have opened a thread for the Hymns of Thayumanavar;his hymns are a perennial delight to me.
You may find the complete collection of his songs here:
http://www.shaivam.org/tamil/sta_tayumanavar1_u.htm (http://www.shaivam.org/tamil/sta_tayumanavar1_u.htm)
You may find a very good translation of all his hymns into English here:
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/book/the-songs-of-tayumanavar/3 (http://www.himalayanacademy.com/book/the-songs-of-tayumanavar/3)
The Translation may be improved further,yet overall it is pretty good.However,nothing  like reading the Original which has a mantric effect and immediately imbues one with Bhava.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 19, 2012, 07:41:07 PM
Dear Ravi,

Yes.  I feel the same. I think for that matter any translation is only a poor cousin.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 19, 2012, 08:00:53 PM
Sri Ravi,

The Himalayan academy website is wonderful, infact it was very inspiring to see Shaivism flourish in foreign soil with great fervor, i was reading about Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. They are all great inspiration! I have already been highly inspired by Thayumanavar verses, but this time, it is like, He has captured me by those verses, தந்தை தாயுநீ என்னுயிர்த் துணையுநீ....

I request yourself and Subramanian Sir to provide your insights wherever you may feel like that many enhance a devotee's perspective and fervor.

Subramanin Sir, you are right, any translation cannot be good enough, but a basic translation at least opens up the gates into the deep realms of ones own heart, which the rasa of bhakti can be tasted, upon the churning of our intellect on His contemplation.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on December 19, 2012, 08:25:35 PM
Nagaraj,
Yes the Himalayan academy site is a very good resource;Sri Sivaya subramuniya Swami is a disciple of yogaswami of Sri Lanka and they acknowledge the vedanta siddhanta samarasa;Yogaswami has met sri Bhagavan.Thayumanavar is a perfect exemplar of vedanta siddhanta samarasa.The Following song is a wonderful one from his எங்கு நிறைகின்ற பொருள் -All pervasive Being

அவனன்றி யோரணுவும் அசையாதெ னும்பெரிய
      ஆப்தர்மொழி யொன்றுகண்டால்
   அறிவாவ தேதுசில அறியாமை ஏதிவை
      அறிந்தார்கள் அறியார்களார்
மௌனமொ டிருந்ததார் என்போ லுடம்பெலாம்
      வாயாய்ப் பிதற்றுமவரார்
   மனதெனவும் ஒருமாயை எங்கே இருந்துவரும்
      வன்மையொ டிரக்கமெங்கே
புவனம் படைப்பதென் கர்த்தவிய மெவ்விடம்
      பூதபே தங்களெவிடம்
   பொய்மெயிதம் அகிதமேல் வருநன்மை தீமையொடு
      பொறைபொறா மையுமெவ்விடம்
எவர்சிறிய ரெவர்பெரிய ரெவருறவ ரெவர்பகைஞர்
      யாதுமுனை யன்றியுண்டோ
   இகபர மிரண்டினிலும் உயிரினுக் குயிராகி
      எங்குநிறை கின்றபொருளே.1.
"Not an atom moveth without Him" -
If this great saying of the wise is realized,
Where then is knowledge?
Where then is ignorance?
Who are they that knew this?
Who are they that knew this not?
Who are they that in silentness sat?
Who are they that are loquacious like me,
My entire body turned into mouth
?
Where doth the illusion, that is mind, come from?
Where is cruelty from?
Where is compassion from?
Why the creation of this universe?
Why the lordly functions arising therefrom?
Why these diverse elements?
Why truth and falsehood?
Why pleasantness and unpleasantness?
Why good and evil?
Why beneficient things to be?
Why the disasters to follow?
Why the patience and impatience?
Who are small?
Who are great?
Who are friends?
Who are enemies?
All, all none but Thee!
Oh! Thou the Pervasive Being
That is Life of life
Of this world and next!

This one verse is enough to stop all meaningless arguements and digressions.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 19, 2012, 08:53:45 PM
So nice, the sum and substance of vedanta, reminds me of Avvaiyaar's Aathichudi, so simple and yet so very profound, easily digestible.

I am again and again being smitten by the beauty that is tamil.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 20, 2012, 01:52:01 PM
This is a Tiruppugazh song of Arunagiri Nathar, on the Muruga of Chidambaram, who is near Northern Towers of the Temple.
Muruga's name is Pandiya Nayagar.


தனத்தத் தானன தானன தானன
     தனத்தத் தானன தானன தானன
          தனத்தத் தானன தானன தானன ...... தந்ததான

......... பாடல் .........

எலுப்புத் தோல்மயிர் நாடிகு ழாமிடை
     இறுக்குச் சீபுழு வோடடை மூளைகள்
          இரத்தச் சாகர நீர்மல மேவிய ...... கும்பியோடை

இளைப்புச் சோகைகள் வாதம் விலாவலி
     உளைப்புச் சூலையொ டேவலு வாகிய
          இரைப்புக் கேவல மூலவி யாதியொ ...... டண்டவாதங்

குலைப்புக் காய்கனல் நீரிழி வீளையொ
     டளைப்புக் காதடை கூனல்வி சூசிகை
          குருட்டுக் கால்முட மூமையு ளூடறு ...... கண்டமாலை

குடிப்புக் கூனமி தேசத மாமென
     எடுத்துப் பாழ்வினை யாலுழல் நாயெனு
          னிடத்துத் தாள்பெற ஞானச தாசிவ ...... அன்புதாராய்

கெலிக்கப் போர்பொரு சூரர்கு ழாமுமி
     ழிரத்தச் சேறெழ தேர்பரி யாளிகள்
          கெடுத்திட் டேகடல் சூர்கிரி தூள்பட ...... கண்டவேலா

கிளர்ப்பொற் றோளிச ராசர மேவியெ
     யசைத்துப் பூசைகொள் ஆயிப ராபரி
          கிழப்பொற் காளைமெ லேறுமெ நாயகி ...... பங்கின்மேவும்

வலித்துத் தோள்மலை ராவண னானவன்
     எடுத்தப் போதுடல் கீழ்விழ வேசெய்து
          மகிழ்ப்பொற் பாதசி வாயந மோஅர ...... சம்புபாலா

மலைக்கொப் பாமுலை யாள்குற மாதினை
     அணைத்துச் சீர்புலி யூர்பர மாகிய
          வடக்குக் கோபுர வாசலில் மேவிய ...... தம்பிரானே.

......... சொல் விளக்கம் .........

எலுப்புத் தோல் மயிர் நாடி குழாம் மிடை ... எலும்பு, தோல், மயிர், நாடிக் குழாய்களின் நெருக்கம்,

இறுக்குச் சீ புழுவோடு அடை மூளைகள் ... உள் அழுந்தியுள்ள சீழ், புழு இவைகளுடன் பொருந்திய மூளைகள்,

இரத்தச் சாகர நீர் மலம் மேவிய கும்பி ஓடை ... இரத்தக் கடல்நீர், மலம் இவை எல்லாம் நிறைந்த சேற்றுக் குளத்தில்,

இளைப்புச் சோகைகள் வாதம் விலா வலி ... சோர்வு, இரத்தக் குறைவால் வரும் சோகை, வாயு மிகுதலாகிய பிணி, பக்க வாதம்,

உளைப்புச் சூலையொடே வலுவாகிய இரைப்பு ... வயிற்று உளைவு, சூலை என்னும் நோயோடு, பலத்த மூச்சு வாங்குதல்,

கேவல மூல வியாதியொடு அண்ட வாதம் ... இழிவான மூல நோயுடன் விரைவாதம்,

குலைப்புக் காய் கனல் நீரிழிவு ஈளையொடு அளைப்பு ... நடுக்கு வாதம், காய்கின்ற நெருப்புப் போன்ற சுரம், நீரிழிவு, கபநோயின் காரணமாக கோழையின் கலப்பு,

காது அடை கூனல் விசூசிகை ... செவிட்டுத் தன்மை, கூன், வாந்தி பேதி,

குருட்டுக் கால்முடம் ஊமை உள் ஊடு அறு கண்டமாலை ... குருட்டுத் தன்மை, கால் முடமாயிருத்தல், பேச வராமை, உள் பக்கத்தே அறுத்துச் செல்லுகின்ற கழுத்தைச் சுற்றி வரும் புண்,

குடிப் புக்கு ஊனம் இதே சதமாம் என எடுத்து ... (இத்தகைய நோய்கள் எல்லாம்) குடி புகுந்த, கேடு செய்கின்ற இந்த உடலே நிலையானது என்று எடுத்துக்கொண்டு,

பாழ் வினையால் உழல் நாயேன் ... பாழ்படுத்தும் கொடிய வினையால் திரிகின்ற நாய் போன்ற அடியேன்,

உன் இடத்துத் தாள் பெற ஞான சதாசிவ அன்பு தாராய் ... உனது திருவடிகளைப் பெற, ஞான மயமானதும், எப்போதும் மங்களகரமானதும் ஆகிய அன்பைத் தருவாயாக.

கெலிக்கப் போர் பொரு சூரர் குழாம் உமிழ் ... வெற்றி பெறுவதன் பொருட்டுப் போர் செய்த அசுரர்களுடைய கூட்டம் கக்கும்

இரத்தச் சேறு எழ ... இரத்தச் சேறு பெருக,

தேர் பரி யாளிகள் கெடுத்திட்டே ... தேர்கள், குதிரைகள், யாளிகள் (இப் படைகள் எல்லாம்) அழிபட்டு,

கடல் சூர் கிரி தூள்பட கண்ட வேலா ... கடலும் சூரனும், கிரெளஞ்ச மலையுடன் எழு மலைகளும் தூள்படும்படி செய்த வேலனே,

கிளர் பொன் தோளி ... விளங்குகின்ற அழகிய தோள்களை உடையவள்,

சராசரம் மேவி எய் அசைத்துப் பூசைகொள் ஆயி ... அசையும் பொருள், அசையாப்பொருள் இவை இரண்டிலும் கலந்தும் அவைகளை ஆட்டுவித்தும் பூஜை பெறுகின்ற எங்கள் அன்னை,

பராபரி ... பரம் பொருளானவள்,

கிழப் பொன் காளை மேல் ஏறு எம் நாயகி பங்கின் மேவும் ... (தனக்கு) உரிமையான அழகிய எருதின் மேலே ஏறி வருபவளும் எம்முடைய பிராட்டியும் ஆகிய பார்வதியின் பக்கத்தில் இருப்பவரும்,

வலித்துத் தோள் மலை ராவணன் ஆனவன் எடுத்தப் போது ... வன்மையுடன் ஆட்டி அசைத்து, தனது தோளால் (கயிலை) மலையை இராவணன் என்பவன் எடுத்த பொழுது*,

உடல் கீழ் விழவே செய்து மகிழ்ப் பொன் பாத ... அவனுடைய உடலைக் கீழே விழச் செய்து மகிழும் அழகிய பாதங்களை உடையவரும்,

சிவாய நமோ அர சம்பு பாலா ... சிவாயநம என்னும் ஐந்தெழுத்துக்கு மூலப்பொருளானவருமான சிவசம்புவின் குமாரனே,

மலைக்கு ஒப்பா முலையாள் குற மாதினை அணைத்து ... மலை போன்ற மார்பகங்களை உடைய குறப்பெண்ணாகிய வள்ளியைத் தழுவி,

சீர் புலியூர் பரமாகிய ... பெருமை வாய்ந்த புலியூர் என்னும் சிதம்பரத்தில் மேலான பொருளாய்ச் சிறந்து விளங்கும்

வடக்குக் கோபுர வாசலில் மேவிய தம்பிரானே. ... வடக்குக் கோபுர வாசலில் வீற்றிருக்கும் தனிப்பெரும் தலைவனே.


The meaning is available in Tamizh. I shall try to give the English meaning in due course.

******

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 20, 2012, 01:57:15 PM
The following is the meaning in English, for that Chidambaram Tiruppugazh:


elupputh thOl mayir nAdi kuzhAm idai: Bones, skin, hair, clusters of veins and arteries,

iRukku chee puzhuvOd adai mULaigaL: the dormant puss, worms and germs, various parts of the brain,

iraththa sAgara neer mala mEviya kumbiyOdai: sea of blood, water, faeces - these are all filled in this body, a slimy pond;

iLaippu sOgaigaL vAtham vilA vali: general weakness, anaemia, rheumatism, paralysis,

uLaippu sUlaiyodE valu vAgiya iraippu: stomach ache, chUlai (another kind of stomach pain), extreme breathlessness,

kEvala mUla viyAdhiyodu aNdavAtham: the worst kind of piles, swelling of the testicles,

kulaippuk kAy kanal neerizhiv eeLaiyodu aLaippu: nervous debility, high fever, diabetes, bronchitis causing accumulation of phlegm,

kAdhadai kUnal visUsigai: deafness, hunched back, cholera,

kuruttuk kAl mudam UmaiyuL UdaRu kaNta mAlai: blindness, lameness, itchy ring worm around the neck that eats the flesh from inside,-

kudippuk kUnam idhE satham Amena eduththu: such diseases have settled inside this miserable body; thinking that this body is everlasting,

pAzh vinaiyAl uzhal nAyen: I, the lowly dog, roam about aimlessly afflicted by my bad deeds.

unidaththu thALpeRa nyAna sadhAsiva anbuthArAy: To enable me to attain Your hallowed feet, kindly grant me the Auspicious and Blissful Knowledge.

kelikkap pOr poru sUrar kuzhAm umizh iraththa sERezha: They came to the battlefield in order to win; but the blood gushing from the multitude of demons formed a slimy pond;

thEr pari yALigaLkeduththittE: their armies of chariots, horses and elephants were all destroyed;

kadal sUr giri thUL pada kaNda vElA: The seas, Demon SUran and Mount Krouncha, along with the seven hills, were all smashed by Your Spear, Oh Lord!

kiLarp potrOLi: She has majestic and beautiful shoulders;

charAchara mEviye asaiththup pUjaikoL Ayi: She is the Mother, who mingles with all stationary and moving objects of the Universe and also influences them all and accepts all puja offerings;

parApari: She is the all-pervasive One;

kizhappoR kALai melERum enAyaki panginmEvum: She mounts Her favourite Bull, Nandi; She is Our Goddess PArvathi, and He is Her consort by Her side;

valiththuth thOLmalai rAvaNan Anavan eduththap pOdhu: when RAvaNan exerted the strength of his shoulders fully and attempted to lift Mount KailAsh*,

udal keezh vizhavE seydhu magizh poRpAdha: He gleefully made Ravanas's body fall under the Mount by the force of the big toe of His lovely feet;

sivAya namO ara sambu bAlA: and He is the fundamental substance in the five- lettered ManthrA "SivAyanamaha". He is Lord SivA Sambu, and You are His son!

malaik oppA mulaiyAL kuRamAdhinai aNaiththu: You embraced VaLLi, the KuRavAs' damsel, who has mountain-like bosoms!

seerpuliyUr paramAgiya vadakku gOpura vAsalil mEviya thambirAnE.: In this famous town called PuliyUr (Chidhambaram), You remain the highest principle by the side of the northern temple tower, Oh Unique Lord!


Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 20, 2012, 02:07:35 PM
Sir, Arunagirinathar is a symbol of great hope for all kinds of devotees, no matter how bad they may feel of themselves, what a transformation had transfigured within the great saint!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 20, 2012, 02:36:23 PM
Its a great miracle to see people who go to sleep in the night wake up in the morning on time for morning coffee and those who take a short nap, wake up on time for nice tea, what a biggest miracle, that i am witnessing all these!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on December 20, 2012, 02:42:52 PM
Quote
அவனன்றி யோரணுவும் அசையாதெ னும்பெரிய
Not an atom moveth without Him"

This is an excellent verse  that I always think over when I am upset over something  remembering that 'His will only be done " . No doubt I can put my best efforts , plan, improve upon etc  etc but at  the end  of the day I must surrender to the fact that "His will only be done "

Om Peace
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 10:03:20 AM
the person in the path of jnana says, unless one knows oneself, there cannot be liberation. having known, the person has to give that knower, the possessor of 'knowing' oneself, we are all quite clear in the dictum of Bhagavan and there is no jnani but there is only 'Jnanam'

Similarly, it is not necessary that the 10th person does not know oneself, he gives himself up - the 'knower' the possessor in the almighty. Again this clearly is in confirm with Bhagavan's dictum, there is no Bhakta but only 'bhakti'.

IN the first case, the sadhaka first knows oneself and the gives himself up, in the second case, the sadhaka sees the Truth, beforehand, and sees no necessity to know oneself, and he gives himself up, as he has already known the futility of knowing himself, that is just ego.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 10:09:36 AM
Both have to give up liberation, the first, gives up knowing there is nothing to realise, the second gives up even without knowing there is nothing to realise, he does not even care of realisation.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 10:22:13 AM
Therefore, it is not wisdom to conclude that one can only realise by a particular way. It is originating from avidya, who ever says so, be he, in either of the paths.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 10:24:56 AM
only the question is ... if i have to reach myself, why take a complete tour ? anyways those interested can do so.

Tushnim, that there is complete tour and short tour is only a fiction of imagination. There is no journey at all! This is the error.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 10:32:42 AM
Then what was this ?
Quote
Therefore, it is not wisdom to conclude that one can only realise by a particular way. It is originating from avidya, who ever says so, be he, in either of the paths.
you first speak of paths and then come up with a seemingly wise statement !

Dear friend, it is directed to you to not be in wrong conclusion that only knowledge liberates, only knowing oneself liberates. Each person as he is will care of himself, all we need to do is mind our own selves, and our own abidance.

You remain happy where you are, do not emerge from your abidance and tell to non existing others that only knowing oneself liberates and all. That is the error.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 10:36:01 AM
well, it does not matter if it is seemingly wise statement each one gets what they want, yad bhaavam tad bhavati :)

What sort of jnana are you talking about, that is unable to see the Self in all? what sort of Jnana are you talking about that only sees Jnana in oneself but only imperfection outside of oneself? Please ponder! If its true Jnana, you will only see Jnana everywhere, and not engage in saying only Jnana liberates.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 10:37:21 AM
In Mahabharatha, there is a parable which stands testimony to Yudhishtra’s  inherent greatness when compared with Duriyodhana. One day Duriyodhana is summoned and asked to bring one good man from the earth. In the evening a disillusioned Duriyodhana returns, grumbling about how there isn’t one decent man left on the face of the earth. The very same day, Yudhishtra returns, shaking his head in utter dismay, genuinely unable to spot ONE BAD man, on which endeavour he was sent!! Each saw in the world what he found himself to be. Much as Duriyodana tried to rule the kingdom and prove his supremacy, it is proven beyond doubt that he must have been a tormented man, unhappy with himself on the core level. While Yudhishtra was intrinsically happy and contented even when he was in the forest, divested of the kingdom and the honours of a princely life!

This would be the greatest test of true spirituality – when one is unable to judge or condemn another human being, unable to hate, regardless of how different or even obnoxious he may be, it is only THEN that the individual is truly spiritual.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 10:49:46 AM
Even if it is true Jnana liberates, yes, Jnana also liberates. I will never agree with you, as you are certainly lacking in fundamental principle. Your are still falling short of Tapas. The Kaivalyam is yet to happen completely. As I have said before, you are stuck with knowledge, which you have to give up, only then can you allow that which is to shine. But unless this, occurs, you may say 100 things that are true, but still will not be accepted or resonated as you still see yourself different from others, you are still stuck in knowledge and ignorance, you are still stuck in liberation and non-liberation, you are still stuck in paths, this path alone liberates, no other paths liberates, you are still stuck in methods.

this is nothing personal, as a deep disciples or sadhakas in quest of Truth, I am sure you will take this in the right spirit.

Wisdom will shine like thousand suns Udai, just like your name Udai it will arise and shine forth, there no effort will be necessary. when it shinies, it will shine every where equally, without any views and opinions, unabashedly.

Now just coz Ramana is a Jnani does not mean he will say "wah wah" to waht ever anyone says !
You are really superb.

I do not get what you are trying to say. certainly it is not in the right decorum to use the words "wah wah" in context to a Guru. That is not a mark of shraddha. Ramana remained silent!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 11:00:38 AM
      :) Ramana saw everyone perfect, but if someone said something thats not wise, he did point out. so pointing out that a satement is not wise is ok.

So please consider the same view in your case too.

"na yogena na saNkhyena karmaNaa no na vidyayaa|
brahmaatma-ekatva bhodena mokshasya sidyati nanyathaa " ---> Vivekachudamani.

First tell me, how do you so coolly say, those who you see practicing Bhakti or yoga, or any other practices are ajnaanis? how do you know if they are in communion with Brahman or not?

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 11:15:19 AM
The point is the Brahmaatma Ektva Bodha, occurs irrespective of what one pursues. a person may spend 100 lives in the quest of Jnana and Brahmaatma Ektva Bodha, but still, he may not realise it!

if you keep saying realise Brahmaatma Ektva Bodha, realise Brahmaatma Ektva Bodha, realise Brahmaatma Ektva Bodha, nothing else liberates, what sense does it make?

Aren't people who are serious in the quest of God of Self or what ever we may want to call it, not aware of it? your approach has been like a father persisting his son to get 100/100 in mathematics, get 100/100 in mathematics, but, each one will learn mathematics in their own way, it is not necessary you have to learn addition substration only by pen and paper, one can lean it being with the tress, nature, or in temple or in playground.

You will never know what each person is doing out there, just let them be, they know, people know.

You have something to say, say it and leave it, allow it to germinate, you have something good to contribute, sow the seed and leave it, be patient, do not persist with dumping the food on the child, just because the child has to eat, which only reflects your impatience in somebody else's liberation.

Why do you want to get caught in the web, if somebody is realised or not? why are you trying to become the savior of somebody else?

Please ponder.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 11:22:26 AM
Brahmaatma ektva bodha is acausal. It does not occur because of something, so as to say, do this, do that, you will gain brahmaatma ekatva.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 11:36:10 AM
What does the Sringeri mahaswami say below that ?
"Moksha is not realised by the knowledge produced by yoga-shastras. For , that is only dualistic knowledge. Moksha does not
arise merely by the control of activities of the mind. The same is true of the Saamkhya system propounded by the sage kapila. The samkhya system propounds the plurality of jivas. Nor can it arise by sacrificial activities described in the earlier portions of vedas. na vidyayaa: knowledge which relates to the several upasanas of the saguna brahman prescribed in the upanishads, even that will not lead to the realisation of kaivalya. Knowledge derived from yoga and saamkhya sutras relate only to a predicament of duality"

He says it, not me! why is he saying such a thing sir?

See, we have to see things in perspective, this answer too, if the acharya is to a person, who questioned him, the swamiji has given a response based on the questioner's pakva, we do not know, in what perspective the questioner was.

The important thing is to discern that we should not generalise. Infact, you will be clearly aware that Shankara himself would have spoken differently in different context. Swamiji, too has spoke differently in another context. Infact, to some devotee he told, keep off all the books and continue his upasana, do not bother about these.

Udai, we need to see that brahmaatma ekatvaa is beyond rationalisation. For one may find his bread here, another may find his bread in something different alltogether.

What is "Bodha" ?
what does it mean in that sentence ?

Bodha in this context, has to be understood as not 'knowing' or 'understanding' but bodha in this context means 'awakening' there are many meaning attached to the word 'bodha' Brahmaatma Ekatva' is not something that is understanding or knowing, it is awakening, which cannot be understood, or known, that is why even Bhagavan says, Just Be, he doesn't force say 'BE' why he says just be, as brahmaatma ekatvaa is acausal.

Why acausal? because, truly there is nothing to realise, one is already realised they say, the scriptures also say, That Thou Art, I am that I am and so on....

What Bodha to be given to that which is itself Bodha? which is what is conveyed in the famous example, when the pot is broken the space is the pot merges with the space in the space, there is no merging, the pot was already in the space, can we now say, the space became aware of its space?

and why did it say
"na yogena na saNkhyena karmaNaa no na vidyayaa" ?

it simply says, brahmaatma ektva is acausal, it is not derived out of anything, it is inherent. Brahman is not something new that is to be gained.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 12:02:18 PM
Please read carefully what i have written,

Understand what Bodha is in the righte context.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 12:03:42 PM
Any commentary is written with an ideal disciple in mind. It need not be that everybody may be upto the mark of who Sri Swamiji has kept in mind.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 12:07:13 PM
Show me a general commentary on scriptures where he said "bodha is not needed" !
Nowhere I have said bodha is not required, you do not seem to read with patience.

you can imagine up things and twist the meanings if you want.
see however what he is saying.

:D It is as good as conversing to a wall, conversing with you, after all!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 03:14:02 PM
What casualness, Udai? I am not going to point out the section what i have told. It is upto you. What do you expect?

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 21, 2012, 10:40:31 PM
mind becomes pure the moment we trust it no more.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 22, 2012, 06:19:43 PM
Annamalai Final Talks:

Q: Whether the mind will die suddenly, or whether it will die slowly, step by step?

AS: If Sun rises, whether darkness disappears immediately or by step by step?

In this context Sri Bhagvan said once: One finds the rope in darkness by mistake as a snake. He asked: How many years
will it take for the snake to die?

It is a better answer:  When there is no mind at all, how can it die slowly or fast?

(From Final Talks)

Arunachala Siva,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 23, 2012, 10:16:12 PM
No matter how much we may pacify ourselves with various jnana, death is something that will be the biggest challenge we will come across. More than the death of ones own self, it is the death of our loved ones, is the greatest challenge.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 23, 2012, 10:24:18 PM
Facing Truth actually gives sleepless nights. but only we try to escape it by jnana and bhakti.

The Truth as well as Fact is this -

We are Helpless! We are Helpless! and We are Helpless!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 23, 2012, 10:27:22 PM
But again, the only safe haven is Bhakti and Jnana.

(http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Life_of_Masters/Ramana-Maharshi/Ramana-Maharshi2.jpg)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 23, 2012, 10:29:58 PM
Tonnes of knowledge will be of no help there, our faith will be tested so as to jump from the cliff.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 23, 2012, 10:31:29 PM
time has been eating everybody/everything, nothing ever is, nothing ever is...

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 23, 2012, 10:32:58 PM
All that remains, are just memories, and all that is carried forward are memories, whether we Are or Not.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 24, 2012, 02:38:40 PM
(http://www.salagram.net/Image3.gif)

O' Goddess Saraswati, we pray Thou,
start playing Thy music in our lives!


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 24, 2012, 02:49:19 PM
How wonderful Thy compassion is O' Lord,
Thou appear as Mother, when i beseech Thee,
Thou appear as Father, when i beseech Thee,
Thou appear as brother, when i beseech Thee,
Thou appear as friend, when i beseech Thee,
Thou appear as Guru, when i beseech Thee,
Thou appear as me, when i beseech Thee,
Thou appear beyond me, when i beseech Thee,
Thou art always overflowing with compassion!
Thou feed me, when hunger calls,
What good did thou makest of i,
that i deserved Thou?
Thou loved me, out of
Thy compassion,
not even i, thought of you, but
Thou always thought of me!
what can i repay to Thou?
For, Thou even asketh not, and
possess not a thing do i.





Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 27, 2012, 06:54:35 PM
What you seek is seeking you.

(Rumi)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 28, 2012, 08:21:06 AM
stray thought...

it is our limited intelligence that limits us, it is wise to allow the supreme intelligence to reign over.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on December 28, 2012, 08:26:31 AM
Quote
it is our limited intelligence that limits us, it is wise to allow the supreme intelligence to reign over.

There is no "our intelligence" apart from supreme intelligence. What we think "our intelligence" also belongs to Supreme. That realization is all that is needed - not being afraid of "intelligence" and running away from it :).

Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 28, 2012, 08:35:54 AM
That realization is all that is needed - not being afraid of "intelligence" and running away from it :).

Whose realization are you talking about? :)

not being afraid of "intelligence" and running away from it :).

No comments on your above expression!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on December 28, 2012, 08:50:14 AM
Quote
Quote
That realization is all that is needed - not being afraid of "intelligence" and running away from it .


Whose realization are you talking about?


See the twist :) you made. I never talked about "any person's" realization in my sentence and yet you asked "Whose" ? I just said "That realization". 

So no more arguments and focus back on Sadhana :) for me. I just deviated from the path I like to follow :)

Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 28, 2012, 09:00:27 AM
Sri Sanjay :) whose realization is a pointer, pointing out, whose realization are you talking about, who is it, that needs to be enquired, not as what you have made it out to be!

That realization is all that is needed

the realization is all that is needed, you have said, then question follows, who is it that needs to be realized, the answer would be 'I', who am I, has to follow, without sticking to this, do you see the plays of the intellect? it is only maya, deviating one from tapas and taking one away from adhering to the teachings of Bhagavan.

Kindly introspect slowly, before coming to hasty conclusions.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on December 28, 2012, 09:13:00 AM

Quote
Kindly introspect slowly, before coming to hasty conclusions.

:) Thank you, Nagaraj garu. Will do that now on...

Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 29, 2012, 11:40:33 AM
One of the most beautiful creation or expression is that of the ego's helplessness and submission as a natural consequence of His Presence, of its absolute inability and nothingness before Him and bows its very existence, which is.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 29, 2012, 06:08:48 PM
(http://www.walltor.com/images/wallpaper/the-silence-of-the-nature-84657.jpg)

Now you’ll rest forever
my weary heart. The last illusion has died
I thought eternal. Died. I feel, in truth,
not only hope, but desire
for dear illusion has vanished.
Rest forever. You’ve laboured
enough. Not a single thing is worth
your beating: the earth’s not worthy
of your sighs. Bitter and tedious,
life is, nothing more: and the world is mud.
Be silent now. Despair
for the last time. To our race Fate
gave only death. Now scorn Nature,
that brute force
that secretly governs the common hurt,
and the infinite emptiness of all.


(Leopardi, Translated by A. S. Kline)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 29, 2012, 06:55:47 PM
(http://www.wfad.org/images/gandhiportrait.png)
   







Words, the levers, be my sweet signal
to all negatives, all denial,
renew the root-depths, clear the channels,
with beauty, grace, lay out the form,
and from the single step, the twig,
each bud, each line, lift from the earth
some shape of what we are, some sign.


(A. S. Kline)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 29, 2012, 07:17:52 PM
(http://www.ithemeworld.com/uploads/allimg/20111104/20111104114229776.jpg)   



To stand there
alone
on the up-slope
of milky rock
and bent fir.
To be there alone
in a caul of thought
memory,
intimate
break, from the quick
life, to ancient space:
and there be consumed.


(A. S. Kline)


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 29, 2012, 07:37:29 PM
stray thought...

Path itself is myth (Maya), and naming those path as bhakti jnana karma etc..,  becomes myth of myth (Maya of Maya) - double myth (Double Maya) :D

and seeing them as different, would be the Triple myth (Maya) - myth of myth of myth (Maya of Maya of Maya) :D

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on December 29, 2012, 08:23:20 PM
(http://www.blythedale.org/images/Clouds.png)

Think of you, I think, in the
stillnesses between breaths.
(Clouds, ah, pines and birches,
slopes white ice to the light)
 
Meditate on you, around you,
through stone tree silences.
(Brown paths, misted hills,
snow like foam in the air)
 
Contemplate, in the space
beyond words, you, and you.
(Hedges, boughs frosted silver
their light, white smoke breath)


(A. S. Kline)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on December 30, 2012, 07:53:27 PM
(http://www.graphicsgrotto.com/glittergraphics/cartoons/images/gcartoons144.gif)

A Fairy Song


Over hill, over dale,
Thorough bush, thorough brier,
Over park, over pale,
Thorough flood, thorough fire!
I do wander everywhere,
Swifter than the moon's sphere;
And I serve the Fairy Queen,
To dew her orbs upon the green;
The cowslips tall her pensioners be;
In their gold coats spots you see;
Those be rubies, fairy favours;
In those freckles live their savours;
I must go seek some dewdrops here,
And hang a pearl in every cowslip's ear.

William Shakespeare
(http://www.graphicsgrotto.com/glittergraphics/flowers/images/gflowers44.gif)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 06, 2013, 10:40:00 AM
Stray thoughts...

all our expressions become meaningful only when we are able to live/be our expressions. And when we truly do so, then everything will be absolutely meaningful.

Everything that is done is done just for oneself. [the root 'I' does everything for itself] When this doing ceases, Life is Beautiful.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 06, 2013, 10:44:43 AM
Stray thoughts...

Wisdom is when we are wise enough to distinguish our own ego-self, only then humility takes over. Thereafter, it will not mind anything, no matter, who says what, if even dirt is thrown upon it, or abused or insulted. As Bhagavan says, upon recognition of ones own ego-self, one will join the other in abusing oneself.

Its just fun thereafter!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on January 06, 2013, 10:56:33 AM
Nagaraj garu

Yes - very true. Nochur Acharya says in one his talks (in a lighter vein) that situations which cause sadness, anger etc. are your friends because they are enemies of ego. Enemy of your enemy must be your friend - he says. Very well said...

Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 06, 2013, 10:56:33 AM








That man has reached immortality
who is disturbed by nothing material.

  (http://www.aero.iisc.ernet.in/jaggie/completeprofile/images/swami_vivekananda.png)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 06, 2013, 10:59:53 AM
Learn to feel yourself in other bodies, to know that we are all one. Throw all other nonsense to the winds. Spit out your actions, good or bad, and never think of them again. What is done is done. Throw off superstition.

(Swami Vivekananda)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 06, 2013, 11:09:28 AM
तस्माद्धर्मप्रधानेन भवितव्यं यतात्मना ।
तथा च सर्वभूतेषु वर्तितव्यं यथात्मनि ॥


Hence, [keeping these in mind], by self-control and
by making dharma [right conduct] your main focus,
treat others as you treat yourself.


(Mahabarata)

“All power is within you; you can do anything and everything.
Believe in that, do not believe that you are weak;
do not believe that you are half-crazy lunatics,
as most of us do nowadays. You can do any thing and everything,
without even the guidance of any one.
Stand up and express the divinity within you.”


(Swami Vivekananda)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 06, 2013, 04:00:00 PM
Yes - very true. Nochur Acharya says in one his talks (in a lighter vein) that situations which cause sadness, anger etc. are your friends because they are enemies of ego. Enemy of your enemy must be your friend - he says. Very well said...

very true, Sri Sanjay, Adversities are blessings, they reveal to us the truth, and make us humble and potential to take us very close to the Truth.

Infact this is a popular proverb :D "the enemy of my enemy is actually my friend" it also appears in one famous movie - aliens and predators

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 06, 2013, 05:20:04 PM
Stray thoughts...

Proving the truth for ego's sake and for Truth's sake, both are meaningless.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 06, 2013, 06:55:04 PM
(http://ramanacentre.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/hindisok1.gif)

(http://www.kenlauher.com/Portals/40296/images/woman_walking_in_the_tao-resized-600.jpg)
    Vanish slowly behind
the events of your life
don’t become them.
 
There is a silence of freedom.
There is inviolable mind
in the space of the dark.
 
Cast a veil, and obscure the root.
You are not what you were,
move on beyond.
 
Bodies do not define us,
the shell of the earth,
we are the fire.
 
Move away silent
behind the face of your life.
Secretly become.


(A. S. Kline)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 07, 2013, 08:29:41 PM
The Way   - cannot be told.

The Name - cannot be named.The nameless is the Way of Heaven and Earth.The named is Matrix of the Myriad Creatures.Eliminate desire to find the Way.Embrace desire to know the Creature.The two are identical,But differ in name as they arise.Identical they are called mysterious,Mystery on mystery,The gate of many secrets.


Tao

 ॐ
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 07, 2013, 08:48:30 PM
Eliminate the ‘sage’: forget ‘wisdom’

People will be a hundred times better off.
Eliminate ‘benevolence’: forget ‘rectitude’,
And people will have filial piety.
Eliminate cleverness: forget profit,
And there’ll be less thieves and rogues.
Superficial things are insufficient,
What is needed is all-embracing.
Exhibit the unadorned.
Hold fast to the un-carved block.
Avoid the thought of Self.
Eliminatpitye desire.


 Tao ॐ
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 09, 2013, 10:21:12 PM
See without the seer.
Think without the thinker.
Observe without the observer.
Act without the actor.
See the truth without any fixation of truth.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 10, 2013, 04:18:44 PM
The Yoga sutras of Patanjali 2, 27 conveys the following:

तस्य सप्तधा प्रान्तभूमिः प्रज्ञा

Tasya saptadhaa praantabhumih prajnyaa

That final/ultimate truth stage or level of supreme wisdom is manifested sevenfolds*:

The seven folds were also conveyed by Sri Nochur Acharya in one of his talks,

*

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on January 10, 2013, 06:29:32 PM
Dear Sri Nagaraj, I like this post. It is true,we make surrender too in task. It is still a doing. Do this,dont do that,be still,just being,go beyond. How the hell to do that?! And what is being,what is beyond?! I am being,and still that make me inside of consciousness and its states. It is interesting that all sentences begin with FREE. Can the mind be free? Can the Being be Free? Just,some,my musings.. :) With love and prayers,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 11, 2013, 03:36:33 PM
LIFE ETERNAL:

When the heart of Amaterasu-Omikami and the heart of man are one, this is eternal life.

When the heart of Amaterasu-Omikami and our hearts are undivided, then there is no such thing as death.

When we know that all things are the activity of Heaven, then we know neither pain nor care.

One should make the separated-spirit (bunshin) of Amaterasu-Omikami (i.e the human soul) full and not lacking. When the spirit
of cheerfulness is weakened then the spirit of depression prevails - there is defilement. Defilement is a withering spirit (kegare we
ki kare ni te.). It dries up the Spirit of Light.

- Munetada ( a Shintoist Prophet.)

*****

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 11, 2013, 09:09:45 PM
now, here, without the words, without the following, erasing the following, what is?

Enlightenment
Jnana
Bhakti
Advaita
Dvaita,
Silence
Mouna
Samadhi
Heaven
God
Blank
Void
Summa iru
All is one and same
Nothing is
Everything is
What is
That
Just be
We are already thay
We are not yet that
All gurus
and others.



What will "you" and "i" talk, communicate about?
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on January 11, 2013, 11:59:13 PM
True,nothing,silence... Here,now...

Indeed,long is the list.
You are That.
You are Ego.
There is no Ego.
All is That.
All is mind only.
There is no such thing like mind.
You experience it all the time.
It cannot be experienced.
You are Free.
You are in illusion.
There is no such thing like illusion.
.......

What is same in all states? Deep sleep and walking. ::)
Cut off Your head,and Who are You then!? ::) 
Well,this was just ironic joke. Head is ego only.  :)

For Whom are all these questions?
Leave it,and what is left?....

Uh! >:( or :o....

:)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 12, 2013, 03:29:37 PM
some more nice ones, you have added Sri Jewel :)

so true!

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 14, 2013, 10:42:48 PM
Perhaps, one of the greatest 'thing' (don't know what word to use) to face upfront is the truth of alonenes. Some times, you fwel there is just you, as witness consciousness, none other, some times it feels from within, how unfortunate that there is truly only Self and no God, it is conveyed so very sensitively, that only 'you' are. The pure 'I'. I am sure this fear or the last thing may be found deep within ones heart, the questions which we avoid.

God is there
Only Brahman is truth
There is no God
'i' am the basis of all.

The whole fact is that i know not a thing, though thete seems plenty of knowing.

Spirituality is the only treasure which takes away the only thing that you seem to have, your mind. What is left theteafter? What matters if there is God, no God, or brahman or conscipusneds, what is it to me who am stolen of my only possession my ego, by which i was living decently, thou have consumed me, bit you have left something that is unconsumable, undestroyable, it is that aloneness, am 'i   or are ' you' ?

Oh why is this been left out unconsumed? Have thou become filled already? How can you consume a part of yourself that is left unconsimed. What more now? You have robbed me my ego, my world, my life, my possessions, my everything. Thou have made me a begger who cant even beg, as that begger also thou have consumed.

Thou has stumped me all out!!!!!

 ॐ

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 14, 2013, 11:07:11 PM
The journey will continue, at some point, all alone, but with faith that He is there, which we can not know.you will remain awake when all sleep.

I realise that you get powers, ver scarry, whatever you will or wish begin to happen, people change for the good and leave you shell shocked, what you really desire begin to manifest. Its scarry. You no lnger are at ease like before, you no longer wish unnecessarily. Truth manifests as you wish it to be,

God is, if you see God
No God, if you see no God
You alone are, of you see you alone
You are nought, if you see you are nought

Everything is truth, and true.

 ॐ
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 14, 2013, 11:09:47 PM
Friends, am not making any point here, i am just, simply expressing.
Thank you

 ॐ
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on January 14, 2013, 11:28:40 PM
Beautiful expressions,dear Sri Nagaraj. I find them very reasonable and true...

Indeed,somehow scary,and strange,but then,not really.

Just beautiful.


With love and prayers,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 17, 2013, 10:47:37 AM
Vasanas

Why one is unable to over come the vasanas, it is because, deeply from within, if we carefully enquire, we will see that we want to enjoy the residence in this body, the annihilation of vasanas that we talk about is only imposed by the knowledge received by ones spiritual influence.

One contradicts oneself badly when this is the case, that deep within one wants to enjoy the joys of life, the joys of a human body, but imposes upon oneself the message of spirituality.

When one is unable to discern this truth, one struggles!

Bhagavan said the only way to overcome Vasanas is go deep within to the source and then root it out completely. Certain Vasanas are relatively easier to discern, take for instance Anger, when we look within deeply, we realise that anger actually originates from insecurity, of losing something that is perceived as of oneself's. When it is discerned that one truly possesses nothing, and therefore truly one has got nothing to lose, or gain, the anger is cooled. Also, in the process, it will be discerned that the anger expressed actually has its effect more one oneself, one will certainly feel guilty on its aftermath, on the other hand, it will cause deep pain to see the other cry as a result of outburst of our anger, and so on, discerning all these, the anger is thoroughly rooted by careful and steadfast enquiry.

Similarly all vasanas ought to be discerned out thoroughly. But, not all vasanas are easy to discern, such as anger, emotions and so on. Take for instance the vasanas of lust are not easily discernable, it requires tapas, long and very steadfast enquiry and trace back the source, discerning it completely in the same spirit of anger as given above, only will root out the vasanas.

If one is stuck, unable to proceed, when there is no 'know-how' one has to remain patient and wait for the grace of God to descend, where He will provide light at the right and appropriate time, then the 'know-how' to proceed further in enquiry matures and one will be able to over come from the strangle hold of Vasanas.

Prayer is the medium to receive the grace of God, the guidance, the light.

Self Enquiry too, stops where there is no more 'no-how' to proceed from a certain point, we are left helpless, here, until the tapas matures one has to await the grace of God, the guidance from unknown source, this light may be shown by any medium, through a beggar in the street, through an enemy, through an insentient being, through the nature, through an unbelievable source, one has to be alive and alert to take the ambrosia of nectarine knowledge when it is being given by the Lord.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 17, 2013, 04:09:51 PM
Stray Thoughts...

Faith in Guru increases as the dependence on the Guru reduces.

True knowing is really not knowing.

New found clarity does not last for ever.

Unknown is truly the only known.

Parents are truly the only Pratyaksha Deva (Visible God)

Title: Too many cooks spoil the broth
Post by: Nagaraj on January 19, 2013, 10:47:35 AM
All methods and paths are correct, but it is very very important to stick to one method persistently, and not mix up one method with another. That is, if one is inclined in Atma Vichara, one should stick to it persistently, if we mix up other methods with this, then our tapas gets contaminated and very many questions begin to spring and the answers we mostly arrive then will be of across paths, thereby only creating confusion, stranded, neither here nor there.

Similarly, if one is into the path of devotion, if one is in path of ritual worship, if one is in path of communion through karma, one should not deviate from it. All solutions or answers are available within ones own path, there fore it is very very important to stick to one path. What we do is while we follow one path, and if we have questions and if we do not immediately get any light from ones path, we look for answers from other paths, and when that brings light, we begin yet again another new path, and when we get stuck there, we look for answers in another path, and so on. The wisdom to is to stick to ones own path even if one does not get any answers trusting that there must be a reason for not getting any answer at that moment and wait patiently.

We have to be clear with the path, we are really inclined to, and chose putting all the burden on the God. However having said this, this path is purely internal, ones external actions do not contradict ones actions, that is, one should not let ones path affect ones routine. Say, for instance, if one chooses Atma Vichara, it does not mean that one stop ones daily routines puja or other devotaional karmas, etc... and vice verse.

It is the most important thing a serious spiritual Sadhaka must be clear with ones path.

If If is inclined with Atma Vichara, one should stick with just one source, Ramana Maharshi and even among many books, it is best if one narrows down to just Who Am I book alone for guidance, if, however, if we, out of our inquisitiveness, look around and explore other scriptires such as Tripura Rahasya and Ashtavakra Gita and Bhagavad Gita, or bring in the views of Sri Ramakrishna or Swami Sivananda, one may end up getting contradicting views Or if one sticks to Buddha, we should not mix up Shankara or Ramana or Ramakrishna with this path. If we stick with Nisargadatta Maharaj, we must be steadfast with only trusting one Guru, one line of thought and only one line of Sadhana, by this focus is natural.

Too many cooks spoil the broth

This does not mean one is right and the other is wrong, but simple, we should not mingle and mix up two different paths.

If one is inclined with Ashtavakra Gita, one must stick to just that alone, all answers and solutions will be got from that itself, similarly, if we are inclined with Sri Ramakrishnar, it is best we stick to that alone, all answers and solutions will be got from that itself. Or if we are inclined with Tamil scriptures, we must stick to that alone, even under them narrow down to only one either Tirumoolar or Thayumanavr or manickavachakar, mixing up all only adds confusion.

But, the most important of them all, is the path that we must chose. How do we chose which is the right path for me. Most of us have deviated from the original inspiration, if we trace back to when our spiritual journey began, we can remember where we got pulled to, that is the path that we started off, and since we have deviated a lot since then, we have lost the grip of our path.

Thank so much,

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 19, 2013, 11:01:14 AM
Udai,

It is true the end goal is just one and the same, moksha or vaikunta or kingdom of heaven or self abidance and so on, and as said techniques may also be different, each person may follows any technique, but for each of those persons, it is wise to stick steadfastly to one technique alone.

Even among various Ramama books, it is wise to narrow down to just one book, for personal guidance.

Having a clear conscience in which path one is, it is also wise to seek guidance from that path itself.

Title: Song of Krishna
Post by: Nagaraj on January 20, 2013, 07:47:45 PM
Friends,

Just uploaded a small video on Gita.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db6mL72nC8A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db6mL72nC8A)

Thank you,

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 23, 2013, 09:30:02 AM
Thanks udai :) yes, that is my channel

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 23, 2013, 09:31:11 AM
Stray thoughts...

It is truly amazing, that there is air around us and that we are breathing...

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 23, 2013, 10:09:20 AM
Stray Thoughts...

One needs life's experiences so long one truly gets true understanding. Only when one has gained [dawned] steady knowledge of [yathaartham] reality, one can can truly engage in the sadhana of [becoming] the [understanding].

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 23, 2013, 10:50:21 AM
Stray Thoughts...

If we are bound by any Vasanas, then the plain fact that we have to face is that, we desire that Vasanas more than the desire for Self!

Therefore, if we truly want to overcome Vasanas, one has to have yearning, longing, strong desire for Self, over everything else. Then the desire of Self will overpower all other desires.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 23, 2013, 10:54:54 AM
Stray thoughts...

Steadfastness is The Word!

There are no shortcuts, there are no miracles. One has to cultivate absolute steadfastness in the practice of ones Sadhana. Such steadfastness, that motivates and inspires you to engage in practice of ones Sadhana in all of our waking hours.

This is only possible if the desire for Self supersedes all other desires (pl. connect previous post) If it is not so, then the plain simple fact is that our desire for Self is not the supreme, some other desires motivate us, inspire more than the desire for Self.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 23, 2013, 10:58:55 AM
One needs life's experiences so long one truly gets true understanding. Only when one has gained [dawned] steady knowledge of [yathaartham] reality, one can can truly engage in the sadhana of [becoming] the [understanding].

The Yathartham, the true understanding here is the absolute conviction of the supremacy of God or Self over every other things. This understanding is that attainment [dawn] that it is only the desire of experience Self (or the surrender to God) that is permanent and absolutely nothing else. It is that understanding which gives birth to the absolute conviction of desire of Self, over every other desires.

In that understanidng, the desire of Self or God stands at the top, before every other desires.

Quote from Bhagavan :

Unless intellectually known, how to practice it? Learn it
intellectually first, then do not stop with that. Practise it.


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 23, 2013, 11:05:37 AM
Stray thought...

contd.

We should like God or Self the most. We should like God or Self more than anything else.

Hence it follows, as our scriptures have advised, that in-order to nurture this liking, engage in worship:


All secret lies in the steadfastness. Nurture that sincerity-spirit, to get immersed completely, these acts nurture the desire for God and Self quickly and exactly to the proportion of our steadfastness.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 04, 2013, 04:01:28 PM
One should pray to God with a longing heart.
God certainly listens to prayer if it is sincere.
There is no doubt about it.


(The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna)

Friends, a cousin of mine has been diagnosed with brain tumor and is scheduled to undergo a surgery over the next week. He is just about 32/33 years old and has a small child of just about 5/6 years old. The family is going through a tough time, and i lay this, what is there in my mind at the Lord's feet, by these expressions, to grant my cousin, his wife and the family the strength, courage, patience and wisdom at this critical time and that he may have a successful surgery.

I deeply thank you all in advance and grateful for any of your heart felt responses acknowledgements and prayers.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 04, 2013, 05:04:00 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

I wish and pray to Sri Bhagavan to have His blessings for successful surgery of your cousin's tour and to make him well.

Arunachala Siva.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on February 04, 2013, 05:39:19 PM
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

I am Very sorry to hear about Your cousin! I will pray from all my heart to Bhagavan for him,for his familly and You,to pass through this though time with strenght,courage and faith. I truly,and sincerly hope that he will be fine and healthy again,and that will soon come back to his familly.
May Bhagavan give him All Grace,Blessings and Love!!!


(http://www.pictures88.com/p/angel/angel_062.gif)

Dear Father,

The moonlight comes to release me from darkness.
The Sun comes to give me light.
The seasons come to yield me food.
Thou dost cause them to do this.
I Bow to Thee!

Thou Art the cause of everything,
I Bow to Thee!

Pharamhansa Yogananda


(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnfRWpVaBL-PytFBdE82_fUpt9OJD3nbdA-DOcJa9l663RZ9FgAw)

Thou art Our Father, our Mother, our dear Friend.
Thou bearest the burden of the world.
Help us to bear the burden of our lives.
Thou art our Friend, our Lover, our Husband,
Thou art ourselves!


Swami Vivekananda

(http://www.lookingforloves.com/albums/flowers/animated%20gif%20flowers%20images%20glitter%2094.gif)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: latha on February 04, 2013, 06:14:50 PM
Dear Nagarajji,

My prayers are with your family. May Sri Bhagavan's blessings be on your cousin and his family.

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on February 04, 2013, 07:06:28 PM
Dear Nagaraj

I will do my best to support the healing / recovery of your cousin through my daily prayers .In fact I am writing this after finishing my evening prayers . I have full faith in the power of prayers especially collective prayers and I will do my best to contribute in the collective healing .
BTW last month I opened a separate thread on Adi Shankara's Vaidyanatha Ashtakam and I have given the youtube links as well as the text and meaning of the same .It is a very powerful hymn addressed to Lord Vaithyanantha to heal any form of aliments . I suggest all the people in your family chant the same .
Here is the link to the thread on Sri Vaidyanatha Ashtakam .

Sri Vaidyanatha Ashtakam - for removal of fear of death and cure of diseases
http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7501.0 (http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7501.0)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 04, 2013, 08:00:15 PM
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

I feel for the family and understand its pain and agony when one of its young member is to soon undergo surgery for such a fatal sickness as brain tumour. I pray to Sri Bhagwan for the success of the impending surgery and speedy recovery of your cousin.  I also pray for His Grace so that you and other family members may have the inner strength to tackle and come out of the difficult situation with equanimity.

Pranam,
  Anil
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 06, 2013, 09:46:05 AM
Dear Friends,

Thanks so much, all your words of reassurances and prayers. They mean a lot to me as i realise that the members here are definitely intense and  all your prayers mean a lot, my only wish being in some way, be of some help to the family so that they are able to pass through this tough time to the better. I realised the best thing one could possibly do is to just pray. I thank each and every member from my heart as the doctors confirmed that the tumor is non cancerous, which itself is half a battle won, which was greatly feared and prayerfully hoped it be not that!

Thank you so much friends, pray, i am sure, with your prayers and wishes, that the surgery goes well without creating any aftereffects and successfully.

with prayers,

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 06, 2013, 01:09:36 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

The very discovery that the tumor is non-cancerous removes 75% risk in the surgery. I am sure with Sri Bhagavan's Grace,
your cousin will be operated upon successfully and then he recovers fast to normal life.

Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on February 06, 2013, 01:21:12 PM
Nagaraj

Happy to note that the tumor is non cancerous .Anyway we need to continue with the prayers so that he comes back completely cured and back to normal health . Keep us updated about his progress .
Om Peace .
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 13, 2013, 10:25:16 AM
What is being still, it is complete cessation of the movements of the Vritti, or movements of mind or thoughts. Being still is truly peaceful and thoughtless awareness. I contemplate and also feel that yes, it is definitely possible to engage in activities perfectly being still. But i do note that when we are being still, we will ourselves will not engage in any activities by ourselves, other than those activities that present themselves before us, that cannot be ignored.

I discern that perfectly being still, the only movements that go on are only two, one is the breath which goes on rhythmically and ones heart beat, both are beyond the scope of our own volition. Apart from these activities, any other activities that may happen, happens only at the volition of ourselves, and immediately one ceases from being Still. This also indicates that we are still bound in the hands of certain activties for ourselves, one is unable to just be still.

They are because of Vasanas or tendencies, what pulls us out from Being Still? wanting to correspond with somebody, even about Self Enquiry, or engage in some activity. Surely in these moments one is not being still, as these activities have not presented naturally, but they originate from our own volition.

Now, The Sage has said that whenever we cease from being still, that is the birth of 'I' that takes birth in order to engage in some activity, we are asked to trace the source of this 'I' that has just take birth.

Now, it is said so that we enquire the source of this 'I' back to its source which is being still. This may continue for some time, and again this cycle of the 'I' taking birth repeats again and again and again. And we feel, we should trace this back everytime the I takes birth.

Why the 'I' is taking birth after all, in spite of repeatedely nurturing ourselves in tracing back this wonderous I? because we are not sorting out the real problem, unless the tendencies are completely eradicated, the I will keep taking birth in order to fulfill its purpose.

Bhagavan said "“All the age-long vasanas (impressions) carry the mind outwards and turn it to external objects. All such thoughts have to be given up and the mind turned inward.”"

Are we truly doing this? it is observed (each one, each case) that no, we are not really doing it with integrity, we are feeling and concluding in the lines that whenever the I takes birth we will trace it back.

Truly if we genuienly discern, the real activity that presents itself naturally before us, is almost negligible, majority of activities we are involved in only out of our own volition, being unable to remain still or even carry out Self Enquiry for the said purpose with truest integrity.

This means, Rajo Guna is predominant. Without Rajo Guna, one cannot perform any activity. IT is a natural response that here, we try and reduce those activities that are the result of our own volition by avoiding it and help ourselves as much as possible to not leave any traces of temptations that may compel the 'I' to break from its tapas. Neither being Still, nor indulging in the activity desired by our volition, results in vritti, movements of thoughts without serving its purpose, mental brooding. If there is a weapon before a child, who is very curious, it is wise to throw the weapon out of the vicinity of such a child, that the child may now be free from any thoughts regarding that weapon, of that desired activity. This helps the 'I' get back and reconcile itself knowing, now that activity is beyond my reach, even if it wants to, it cannot get to its goal, it gives up. slowly this tendency will permanently vanish.

Take away TV from the 'I', it gives up, take away, books from 'I' it gives up eventually, take away bike and money, it gives up slowly coming to terms with yathartham fact.

Now, here it is important, we do not give any room to ourselves to develop any new activity. if newspaper is before it, it will aspire to feed on it and so on.

Similarly, the 'I' would want to feed on the taste of food, it will keep making activities for its survival, the life of brahmacharya has it that one should avoid eating junk foods, and external foods, so adopting this discipline the 'i' has to reconcile and give up eventually,

keeping the body supple is a great help, or the I will try and feed on those activities to enjoy the luxuris from body, and so on.

Therefore, it is wise, to have a regulation, The life of a Brahmacharya, be it a woman or man, or a householder, is a very very wise tool to facilitate one to pursue Self Enquiry or Being Still eventually.

personal musings. thank you.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 14, 2013, 09:42:36 AM
ಅರ್ಚನೆ ಜಪ ಧ್ಯಾನ ಯಾತ್ರೆ ಮನದ ಸ್ಥಿತಿಗೆ |
ಚರ್ಚೆ ತರ್ಕ ವಿಚಾರ ಮತಿಯ ವಿಶದತೆಗೆ ||
ಪೆರ‍್ಚಿದ ತಪೋಯೋಗಯಜ್ಞಾದಿಯಾತುಮದ |
ವರ್ಚಸ್ಸಿಗಪ್ಪುದೆಲೊ - ಮರುಳ ಮುನಿಯ || (೨೪೨)


archane japa dhyana yatre manada sthitige
charche tarka vichara matiya vishadatage
perchida tapoyogayajnyaadiyaatumada
varchassigappudelou - marula muniya

Worship, prayer, meditation and pilgrimage are for mind’s welfare
Discussions and arguments for clear understanding
Penance and selfless service are taken up
To make the Atman radiant – Marula Muniya


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 14, 2013, 10:24:12 AM
Dear Friends,

This is to update that my cousin had his operation today, it was about 5 hour operation, Doctor has said that the operation is successful. Thank you all so very much, once again for all your good wishes and prayers. What came as a big mountain has surely been deduced to a melting ice by His grace.

Gratitude



Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on February 14, 2013, 11:30:52 AM
Nagaraj

Happy to note that your cousin has underwent a very successful operation . Congrats to the Team of Doctors who made this possible . Thanks also to the Almighty for making this possible .
Really happy to hear this . Keep us updated about his further progress and hope he returns back to normal life soon .
Om Peace .
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 14, 2013, 01:46:16 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Very happy to hear the news about the successful surgery on your cousin. I wish his speedy recovery with Sri Bhagavan's Grace.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on February 14, 2013, 03:38:59 PM
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

I am very happy to hear that Your cousin is good,and surgery was succesfull.
I wish Him fast and complete recovery!

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 16, 2013, 04:59:37 PM
I may have already posted this, not sure, but, i felt necessary to pot now again, this small talk of Nochur Acharya, its beneficial to keep reminding ourselves again and again the essence of what has been conveyed below:

For realising God, the first requisite is a burning desire to do so. This is what every Mahan comes into the world to teach. It is not necessary that we know who or what God is. When the time is right, He will reveal Himself to us by sending a Sadguru into our lives who will give us the requisite Upadesha and confer liberation. But the pre requisite to all this is the ceaseless Taapam - loosely translated, a burning desire, which makes us extremely uncomfortable in our present state of being. What is required is the thought process which reprimands us for enjoying so many sensory pleasures while age and time slip through our hands; taking congnisance of that fact that we lack seriousness in what is perhaps the most serious thing in our lives and spend our lives instead on other worthless pursuits.
 
To illustrate this point, a story that Buddha said may be used - A man who is walking on a mountain, loses his balance and falls. He finds a rope to hang on to from which he hopes to come to safety. Above him stands a tiger that was in hot pursuit. Below lies a dangerous depth, into which if he were to fall, not even a shred of his body may be recovered. And is his rope strong enough? No .... There is a rat gnawing away at the rope!! This is the predicament of the man. And in the midst of this, there is a drop of honey that drips from a honeycomb. Impervious to the danger that he is in, this man tries to reach for that honey!! This is exactly human existence. Fraught with dangers on all sides. The rat called Time is gnawing away at our lives, and we seek momentary pleasure in watching television and mindless gossip wasting an already too short lifespan!!
 
Bhartruhari says in a sarcastic manner, that we in the world are so busy, engrossed in the meaningless day to day pursuits that we do not have the time to look inwards or strive for emancipation! How ironic!

आदित्यस्य गतागतैरहरहः संक्षीयते जीवितं
व्यापारैर्बहुकार्यभारगुरुभिः कालोऽपि न ज्ञायते ।
दृष्ट्वा जन्मजराविपत्तिमरणं त्रासश्च नोत्पद्यते
पीत्वा मोहमयीं प्रमादमदिरामुन्मत्तभूतं जगत् ॥४३॥

The sun rises and sets, each day goes past and the only assurance we have is that the day that is gone shall never come back again, time slips through our fingers and what do we do? He says that life is going out consistently like water which is going out of a leaky mud pot, but we are busy immersed in the day to day affairs of life (व्यापारैर्बहुकार्यभारगुरुभिः). (very seriously engaged in various duties) We claim that we are so busy that we do not have the time to think of God!!! Some people say, "I wish I could come to your Satsangam, but I am so busy, so many duties, I am not able to. Please forgive me". The tone that they use seems to imply that they consider coming to the Satsangam a favour that they bestow on others (the person who is giving the pravachanam)
 
This is how people pass through life, blithely unaware of Time slipping through their fingers, never to come back again. Is it that they never get an opportunity to contemplate on all this or does God does not remind us about these? No .... God reminds them in various ways - four ways to be exact(दृष्ट्वा जन्मजराविपत्तिमरणं) We see children being born, a man in the prime of his youth move on to Old age, calamities, disaster and accidents, and then finally, the clincher of all - Death. He says he is amazed at how people remain unafraid in the midst of all this. And why is it that man is not afraid? He is inebriated with the toddy of ignorance. That intoxication has spoilt his mental balance and so he manages to remain unafraid (त्रासश्च नोत्पद्यते) The world is caught in a fit of madness, he says. Man is drunk on ignorance and his thinking faculties are dulled by it (पीत्वा मोहमदिरां) This world is gotten mad (उन्मत्तभूतं जगत्) If men were drunk on Bhakthi it would be fine. That is an ecstasy which uplifts, but unfortunately man is drunk on ignorance and his thinking faculties are dulled by it. Which is why he refuses to think, is unable to think in fact, about time which is going past too fast.
 
But what the sages say is that a man should strive to Realise God with the same urge with which a man would run towards water, had his head caught fire (प्रदीप्त शिरहा जलराशिमिव). It is with the same sense of urgency that one should pursue God – Realisation (समिप्पाणिः श्रोत्रियम् ब्रह्मनिष्ठमुपगच्छेत्). And this samsara, has been as disconcerting as fire on one's head for Bhakthas and Rishis.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on February 16, 2013, 07:19:14 PM
NagaraFriends,
It is always a pleasure to listen to Sri Nochur Venkatraman's talks,imbued as they are with Bhakti and Jnana,always spreading the aroma of communion. They are spontaneous and without the Trappings of scholastic sophistry.With regard to Bhakti and Jnana he has this simple and delightful insight-அறிந்து அடங்குதல் ஞானம் .அடங்கி அறிதல் பக்தி -aRindhu adangudhal jnaanam;adangi aRidhal bhakti-i.e to know and subside(in Self or God)is jnana ;to subside and know is Bhakti.
Truly a Great soul.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 16, 2013, 08:14:03 PM
Sri Ravi,

Truly we are blessed to have his satsang. Just a mention of his name does something from within, some feelings of mystic, siddha, desire to be near him, his satsang an intense longing for him. Whenever i go to ramanashram i also hope he is there too... But he is still beyond reach, but only physically. He arouses such things from within.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 17, 2013, 07:45:10 PM
....oh

what did i do to derive this peace now?
what did i deserve to derive this peace now?

i am not even going to pray, let this peace be.
i am not even going to pray, let i cease
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 17, 2013, 07:58:30 PM
That God, Peace is known only through religion, spirituality, gurus, gods is the impediment for peace.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 17, 2013, 08:16:33 PM
Cease from being a bhakta, we become bhakta
Cease from being a jnyani, we become jnyani
Cease from searching, then become the searched
Cease from following, then we become the followed
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 17, 2013, 08:55:56 PM
When at peace
do not do anything to
improve it or decorate it or
register it or verify it.

To want god or peace is like
trying to sleep,
so long we try,
we can't!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on February 18, 2013, 05:54:29 AM
Quote
To want god or peace is like
trying to sleep,
so long we try,
we can't!

Excellent thoughts, Nagaraj garu. Cant put it any better. Many a times, you stop trying to sleep and you sleep in few seconds right away.

Thanks
Sanjay.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 21, 2013, 05:41:37 PM
(http://www.vanamaliashram.org/kanchi_maha_periyaval.jpg)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxjyfhQkSU1r9hk7ao1_r3_500.png)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 23, 2013, 10:16:20 AM
if freedom is acknowledged, so also is bondage, along with it.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 23, 2013, 05:46:11 PM
(http://img.wikinut.com/img/sd4dp8k-00c-foyl/jpeg/0/a-depiction-of-freedom-nature-inty.jpeg)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 23, 2013, 05:59:43 PM
The truth remains quiet,
Vedas came to describe it, Truth remained quiet
Sramana came to describe it, Truth remained quiet
Jina came to describe it, it Truth remained quiet
Buddha came to describe it, Truth remained quiet
Sages came to describe it, Truth remained quiet
scriptures were written to describe it, Truth remained quiet
charvakas came to denounce it, Truth remained quiet
Christ came to describe it, Truth remained quiet
Prophet came to describe it, Truth remained quiet
They all thought supremacy of their description, Truth remained quiet
others came to describe it, Truth remained quiet
some did not believe, Truth remained quiet
some loved the Truth, Truth remained quiet
some did not mind the Truth, Truth remained quiet
some claimed attainment, Truth remained quiet
some do not claim attainment, Truth remained quiet
and I sang Truth remains quiet, Truth remained quiet,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 23, 2013, 06:09:34 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Nice. I think no one thought like this. When a true seeker investigates the Self, he will realize It but thereafter, he will also
remain quiet like Truth.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 23, 2013, 06:23:04 PM
Very true Sir

complete abandonment!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 23, 2013, 06:31:02 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Once a Western devotee asked Sri Bagavan: 'Should I then leave all my possessions?   (to know the Truth)

Bhagavan: The possessor too!

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 24, 2013, 09:27:16 PM
...yearning of a guru is greatly killing, sometimes it is always best to yearn for God as he will not come in physical form and leave impressions... you just don't want a Guru.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 25, 2013, 02:41:54 PM
its very imporant to stay wit the current of clarity when it comes as it can be very easily lost due to lack of tapaa or deligence.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on February 25, 2013, 04:42:36 PM
its very imporant to stay wit the current of clarity when it comes as it can be very easily lost due to lack of tapaa or deligence.

Yes, but clarity of what? :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: cefnbrithdir on March 03, 2013, 01:36:59 AM

Just clarity !

I had that a few weeks back on reading  Bhagavan on thinking only caused by objects, but there are no objects so don't waste  effort thinking. Then I tried to write about it, but got the impression others didn't  quite  understand what I was saying (not their fault) and so .........  never mind.

That's it.  Never mind - the meaning of clarity.

But thank you Nagaraj. I  do appreciate your words.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 13, 2013, 06:51:45 PM
Hari...

clarity cannot be really defined, but in general the highest clarity is to know our limitations. This has been of my best torch bearer!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 13, 2013, 06:52:47 PM
An idle mind is the devil's workshop.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 15, 2013, 10:34:22 AM
Directing all efforts and love towards the Guru in order to win His ambrosial grace over Brahma Jnana and scriptural knowledge and studies is the highest and the supreme sadhana.

No knowledge is higher than winning the grace of the Guru.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 16, 2013, 06:11:14 PM
What a Joy, Bhagavan's restored pictures! The new website is a joy to the heart!

(http://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/WIF-Series_Sri-Ramana-Maharshi-Photo-Gallery-9.jpg)

May He hold our ears and govern us

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 17, 2013, 06:36:40 AM
The light does not share its light, its very nature is sharing. The light does not go about negating darkness, there is no darkness in the eyes of sun.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 17, 2013, 04:05:26 PM
its very important to be very mindful, awake and alert... always! Otherwise, the mind will end up doing something haste.

Never allow 'casualness' the slightest place.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 19, 2013, 04:30:36 PM


Zen in Time:

In the light of the moment, we are Lost in eternal Now
  As emptiness beckons mysteriously.

Origins:

Eyes closed, see your inner being in detail.  Thus see your true nature.*

* natural state as Sri Bhagavan has said.

           -Vigyana Bhairava, an ancient Hindu Text.

****

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 20, 2013, 12:19:08 PM
I just remembered an uncident in bhagavans life. Somebody had written a book on bhagavans life which carried absolutely incorrect informations on bhagavans life which mentioned that bhagawan was married went through gruhasta ashrama etc... Had children n then reakused n came to tiruannamalai... Etc...

That persob showed a draft copy to bhagavan and hhagawan v patiently read the whole book n made jyst one correction gruhastha had small ta and ye corrected that alone by making it nahapraba and gave it to that person to proceed ti publush.

Kunju swami happened to see that book from that oerson and was shocked and came running to bhagawan telling him enna bhagawane thappu thappa ezhudurka.. Meaning the book has all possible wrong information to which bhagawan replied enna kunju... What kunju is that alone wrong ? What about all these then ?

I think i learnt an imp lesson now.

Thanks to bhagavan... For being my remembrance of this story...

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 20, 2013, 01:44:37 PM
Saint Tayumanavar - kal Alin  (Stone Banyan Tree)

வேறுபடுஞ் சமயமெல்லாம் புகுந்து பார்க்கின்
      விளங்குபரம் பொருளேநின் விளையாட் டல்லால்
மாறுபடுங் கருத்தில்லை முடிவில் மோன
      வாரிதியில் நதித்திரள்போல் வயங்கிற் றம்மா. 25.

If one investigates into all differing religions, O the Supreme Substance, it is all your sports and there is no
differing opinions in the essence. All religions like rivers merge into you, the great Ocean!

Arunachala Siva,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 20, 2013, 03:12:45 PM
Dear Sir,

without this root, no jnana can stand or shine. This is the absolute substratum of all

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 20, 2013, 06:42:18 PM
Can there be any time frame for sravana manana nidhidhtasana ? Which ought to be practiced fir some time? I believe time concept is myth. All of these may transpire in just a flup second or may even take several lives. In bhagawans case it was just 15 minutes.

Moreover sravana manana nidhidhyasa are just terms given. Does the true sadhaka who is thoroughly immersed in god or jnana vichara have any conscience to see that ah ! Yes niw am doing sravana ah ! Now am doing manana ah! Now am doibg nidhidhyasa...

The entire thing is about the annihilation of the doer! When one is immeresed in hus quest what matter in terms and definitions?

Sheer dedication or shraddha or bhakti is what is attributed to such sadhaja immersed in god or jnana.

All these are jyst terms
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 20, 2013, 06:49:16 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Sri Bhagavan has said that the self inquiry itself contains sravana, manana and nidihdhysana. See Sadhu Om's Path of Ramana,
where this has been  clarified. Sri Bhagavan did not ignore the conventional steps. 

Again as regards nayana diksha, Karuna Kataksham,   Sri Sankara has mentioned this in Viveka  Chudamani.

Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 20, 2013, 07:09:24 PM
Dear Sir

Here us that verse 35, am just providing englush translation now as i dnt gave comp access and am writing through mobile.

Master, O friend of all who reverently surrender unto thee, thou ocean of mercy, I salute thee; save me, fallen as I am into this sea of worldly existence, with a direct glance from thy eyes which shower nectarine Grace Supreme

--

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 21, 2013, 10:29:08 AM
stray thoughts...

just look around, every thing/body is leaving and slowly going away, for ever, leaving only memories, and never to come back...

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 21, 2013, 04:57:05 PM
“An ounce of practice is worth more than tons of preaching.”

MK Gandhi

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 21, 2013, 05:14:01 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. One blind Muslim boy had come all the way from Karachi to meet Sri Bhagavan. He stayed in His Presence for some days.
He had studied only Who am I? in braille language.  When the Asramam offered him  some other books, he declined it saying
that Who am I? alone would do for his life's practice of self inquiry!

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 21, 2013, 07:24:57 PM
stray thoughts...

abstract irrelevant one, just for self...

Triple action roles!  :)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 21, 2013, 07:30:40 PM
The Upaniṣhad is an authority, and it tells us that It did not wish to be alone. "Let me be many and see Myself as the variety of things." In order to become the many, It became two, first. Then, perhaps, the two became four, four became eight, eight became sixteen, and thirty-two and millions and millions; an infinite variety, uncountable, innumerable in quantity and quality. How did He become two in the beginning? He became two with a severe impulse which is the subject of the chant in famous hymn of the Ṛg-Veda known as the Nāsadīya-Sūkta, the hymn of creation.

(Swami Krishnananda)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on March 21, 2013, 07:51:21 PM
The Upaniṣhad is an authority, and it tells us that It did not wish to be alone. "Let me be many and see Myself as the variety of things." In order to become the many, It became two, first. Then, perhaps, the two became four, four became eight, eight became sixteen, and thirty-two and millions and millions; an infinite variety, uncountable, innumerable in quantity and quality. How did He become two in the beginning? He became two with a severe impulse which is the subject of the chant in famous hymn of the Ṛg-Veda known as the Nāsadīya-Sūkta, the hymn of creation.

(Swami Krishnananda)

--

Very true - I always wonder at the inherent nature of my brain. Anything it touches it splits into N other things to be known. It touched water and split it into H2O - now I have 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen. I touch hydrogen / oxygent, it splits to atoms. I touch their atoms - it splits to electrons and protons and so on and so on... It never ceases to split things. The plays of Mother Maya !!!!

Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 22, 2013, 10:28:27 AM
The most striking aspect of Great Masters is their humility and everything else follows only after - their sayings, teachings, truth, jnana, etc...

The first thing to imbibe watching Great Masters, Sri Shankara, Sri Ramana, Sri Ramakrishna, Sri Kanchi Paramacharya, Sri Aurobindo, Sri Annamalai Swami, Shirdi Sai Baba, and so many others, is their Humility.

For many sincere devotees, did not even bother about their liberation, emancipation, they were immersed in their own song of humble service to the Lotus divine feet of their Master.

Seeking Humility is the highest wisdom. This is the backbone of Vaidika Samskara, the in-all essence of Guru-Shishya sampradaaya.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on March 22, 2013, 01:41:36 PM
Quote
and as regards Aurobindo ... he being not liberated, he does not belong to the list anyways.

But Aurobindo never claimed to be part of any list . He had his own independent approach and we have to see him in that respect only .
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on March 22, 2013, 02:06:16 PM
Quote
Why should we even "see" him in any respect ?
he said something ... and that is filled with lot of superstitious ideas !
why can we not reject whats superstitious ... is it coz it comes from a person who is respected by many as a yogi ?

No compulsions for anyone to see him /accept him . Look at him the way u look at Ramanuja , Madhava etc who had their own approach . That's it .
Today after a long gap I went to the Ramakrishna Book Shop in Chennai and went to the Bhagwad Gita section and got the Bhagwad Gita - Shankara Bhashya book . Next to it on the book shelf was Bhagwad Gita - Ramanuja Bhashya . I choose the Shankara Bhashya and never even glanced through the Ramanuja Bhashya and came out paying the bill but I cant say to the bookshop Guy not to keep the Ramanuja Bhashya as it is wrong  and only Shankara Bhashya has to be kept as it is the only right version of Gita  :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 22, 2013, 02:12:11 PM
Dear Atmavichar,
 :D

Our Swami Udai is seeing himself in the list. That is tge point !

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 22, 2013, 02:26:41 PM
Quote
and as regards Aurobindo ... he being not liberated, he does not belong to the list anyways.

But Aurobindo never claimed to be part of any list . He had his own independent approach and we have to see him in that respect only .

Why should we even "see" him in any respect ?
he said something ... and that is filled with lot of superstitious ideas !
why can we not reject whats superstitious ... is it coz it comes from a person who is respected by many as a yogi ?


Then what respect you should be seen for all your nonsensical outbursts ?

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on March 22, 2013, 02:39:46 PM
Quote
Yes thats more or less it. Thats my way too.
BTW , that Shankara Bhasyam book , is a good one.

I like Shankara Bhashya and right now following only Shankara's Interpretation of the Bhagawad Gita and Other texts ( like Vishnu Shasranama ) .It is not that I am against Ramanuja , Madhawa schools etc . I can follow only one Sampradaya and I doubt whether one life time is enough to digest the works of one Achraya of a particular Sampradaya and that is why I just stick to Acharya Shankara Works  as explained by Swami Paramarthananda   and after I have progressed with that and have got all my doubts cleared I intend to study Bhagwan Ramana's works seriously .
But I do read at times Aurobindo's works and also some Vaishnava Teachers like Vellukudi Krishnan , Mukkur Narasimha Chariar, Modern teachers JK ,Osho  , Buddhism , Rationalism , Atheism etc but I do not compare it with  Shankara's view . There is no necessity for me .I just love the diversity of the way each great teacher / thinker views the world / reality and enjoy reading the same .
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 22, 2013, 05:34:19 PM
Adi Shankara's name - satyanaash :D

GovindA GOvindA!

 :o

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 25, 2013, 09:31:32 AM
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6336/31988236908898314619532.jpg)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 27, 2013, 10:39:38 AM
The Tongue suddenly felt extremely grateful for Teeth, and said to it, that i was so very grateful for Teeth because, it is a great Karma Yogi,  and it is always working, grinding what ever we eat and because of which the Tongue is able to taste the Rasa of various tasty foods. The Tongue felt very grateful for Teeth and wanted to do something for Teeth and then praised Teeth as a great Karma Yogi and asked it what it could do to it to to make it happy. The Teeth said, Karma Yogi etc.. is all ok, i am happy you want to do something for me. My only request to you is that you always take care of your tongue carefully, because, for what ever you speak, and if it ends up being controversial, everybody only come and shout and threaten as follows: "Palla odachuduven" "I will break your teeth" you see, for what you do, i am having to receive all threats and my life becomes danger, hence i request you to be careful while you speak. The Tongue was pleasantly amused and shameful and realised the essence.

 :D

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 27, 2013, 05:41:57 PM
பரமசிவன் கழுத்திலிருந்து பாம்பு கேட்டது
கருடா சௌக்யமா
யாரும் இருக்குமிடத்தில் இருந்து கொண்டால்
எல்லாம் சௌக்யமே கருடன் சொன்னது
அதில் அர்த்தம் உள்ளது!


paramasivan kalzhuthil irundhu paambu kaettadhu, garuda sowkyama,
yaarum irukum idathil irundhukondal ellam sowkyame,
garudan sonnathu, adhil artham ullathu,
From the neck of Lord Shiva, the snake asked the eagle “are you doing fine?”.

(Lord Shiva’s neck is adorned with a snake, here the snake is in a safe place (Shiva’s neck) and is questioning (in a teasing tone) the eagle (traditionally, its arch enemy) about its well-being)

The eagle replies, “If everyone stays in their designated (rightful) place, then everything will be fine”, there is a (deeper) meaning in what the eagle said.

(Kannadasan)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 27, 2013, 08:47:15 PM
"It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell."

 Buddha
Title: my musings - The Secret of Nishkamya Karma
Post by: Nagaraj on April 17, 2013, 10:47:51 AM
Stray Thoughts...

The Secret of Nishkamya Karma or Desireless Actions

When we truly realise that absolutely there is nothing to be claimed by us as our own, how can a desire spring in ones actions? When this is discerned with absolute conviction, we realise that even the Punya that we are said to acquire by good deeds also do not belong to us, how can we claim anything as our own?

This flashed to me, a secret revelation, from within, the secret of Nishkamya Karma.

Automatically, unnecessary actions reduce, as the doer dies, as it realise nothing is there to be claimed, it ceases to exert itself thereafter, thus only we are made to engage in those actions that require our exertion or can we say, require the exertion of the body. It is Prakruti or Nature.

--
Title: Choice: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on April 18, 2013, 05:32:51 PM
Stray thoughts..

Choice

We have two choices -

we can either chose to see the 'other' as the Supreme God or Supreme Self or ourselves or
we can chose to see the 'other' as ordinary (human) beings.

We are/become what we see!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on April 22, 2013, 03:02:16 PM
"A wise woman who was traveling in the mountains found a precious stone in a stream. The next day she met another traveler who was hungry, and the wise woman opened her bag to share her food. The hungry traveler saw the precious stone and asked the woman to give it to him. She did so without hesitation. The traveler left, rejoicing in his good fortune. He knew the stone was worth enough to give him security for a lifetime. But a few days later he came back to return the stone to the wise woman. "I've been thinking," he said, "I know how valuable the stone is, but I give it back in the hope that you can give me something even more precious. Give me what you have within you that enabled you to give me the stone." 

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on April 24, 2013, 06:43:52 PM
Stray thoughts...

We loose ourselves in order to enjoy the pain of separation.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on April 25, 2013, 05:15:03 PM
Don’t be stuck with words. Your worries are words. Your ideas are words. Wisdom is beyond words. It is your very Being; the essence of all words. See and relate beyond words. Then there is no lie in your life.

If you manipulate words, it is a lie;
If you play on words, it is a joke;
If you rely on words, it is ignorance;
If you transcend words, it is wisdom.

Sri Sri Sri Ravishankar

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on April 26, 2013, 10:16:56 AM
The Buddha once summarised his entire teachings in one sentence:

"I teach about suffering and the way to end it".

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on April 27, 2013, 01:13:03 PM
The minute you learn to respect and see both sides of the coin as equally good, you can enjoy both. You never hate anything. It is only a matter of your understanding and acceptance. Then you enjoy everything in life. Everything! There is nothing that is terrible, bad or negative in this life.

Let us have that light of understanding. Accept things as they are, people as they are. Don't demand anything. Don't put conditions: "Only when you do this does it prove that you love me." Rise above all this. Our attitude, our approach, our love should be unconditional. Simply accept people for what they are, as they are. Learn to love everyone and everyone will love you, no doubt. Then, life is worth living. The world becomes a heaven on earth for you.

When we stop expecting people to be perfect, we can like them for who they are.

(misc. Multiple sources)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on April 30, 2013, 07:21:06 AM
"One afternoon, Nasruddin and his friend were sitting in a cafe, drinking tea and talking about life and love.  His friend asked: 'How come you never married?'

'Well,' said Nasruddin, 'to tell you the truth, I spend my youth looking for the perfect woman. In Cairo I met a beautiful and intelligent woman, but she was unkind. Then in Baghdad, I met a woman who was a wonderful and generous soul, but we had no common interests. One woman after another would seem just right, but there would always be something missing. Then one day, I met her; beautiful, intelligent, generous and kind. We had very much in common. In fact, she was perfect!'

'So, what happened?' asked Nasruddin's friend, 'Why didn't you marry her?'

Nasruddin sipped his tea reflectively. 'Well,' he replied, 'it's really the sad story of my life.... It seemed that she was looking for the perfect man...'

"To summarise: our own projections, selfish expectations and exaggerations are the foundations of attachment and the unavoidable disappointment.

We want to get love, rather than give love.We seek understanding, rather than trying to understand. 
We seek self-confidence, rather than respecting others. 
We seek praise and encouragement, rather than giving praise and encouragement. We don't like criticism, but like to criticise others.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 04, 2013, 08:59:40 AM
One day the Buddha held up a flower in front of a large audience. he did not say anything for quite a long time. The audience was perfectly silent. Everyone seemed to be thinking hard, trying to see the meaning behind the Buddha's gesture. Then, suddenly, the Buddha smiled. He smiled because someone in the audience smiled at him and at the flower.

When someone holds up a flower and shows it to you, he wants you to see it. If you keep thinking, you miss the flower. The person who was not thinking, who was just himself, was able to encounter the flower in depth, and he smiled. 

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 06, 2013, 09:37:46 PM
Stray thoughts...

When it dawns or when we realise or see for ourselves that it is Gods will alone that truly prevails then what results is that the ego may not be gone all out yet but it will be fully shaken out of its wits and nerves and never to be steady again. Every moment thereon will be new and uncertain. Our own decisions and plans can no longer be trusted anymore!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 09, 2013, 11:57:36 AM
The Buddha who had truly realized the nature of these issues observed noble silence. An ordinary person who is still unenlightened might have a lot to say, but all of it would be sheer conjecture based on his imagination.

The Buddha’s silence regarding these questions is more meaningful than attempting to deliver thousands of discourses on them. The paucity of our human vocabulary, which is built upon relative experiences, cannot hope to convey the depth and dimensions of Reality, which a person has not himself experienced through Insight. On several occasions, the Buddha had very patiently explained that human language was too limited and could not describe the Ultimate Truth.

If the Ultimate Truth is absolute, then it does not have any point of reference for worldlings with only mundane experiences and relative understanding to fully comprehend it. When they try to do so with their limited mental conception, they misunderstand the Truth like the seven blind men and the elephant. The listener who had not realized the Truth could not fathom the explanation given, just like a man who was blind since birth will have no way of truly understanding the color of the sky.

(http://mettarefuge.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/buddhasmile21.jpg?w=320&h=230)

  The Buddha did not attempt to give answers to all the questions put to Him. He was under no obligation to respond to meaningless questions, which reflected gross misunderstanding on the part of spiritual development. He was a practical Teacher, full of compassion and wisdom. He always spoke to people fully understanding their temperament, capability, and capacity to comprehend. When a person asked questions not with the intention to learn how to lead a religious life but simply to create an opportunity for splitting hairs, the Blessed One did not answer these questions. Questions were answered to help a person towards self-realization, not as a way of showing His towering wisdom.

(Godwin Samararatne)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 09, 2013, 12:00:21 PM
stray thoughts..

the more we try to disassociate the body from ourselves, the more there is, the association!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 09, 2013, 12:17:15 PM
Stray thoughts...

The only reason why we are subject to the doshas or defects such as raga dvesha - attachment and aversion, Arishadvarga (6 passions)

1. kama — lust
2. krodha — anger
3. lobh — greed
4. moha — delusory emotional attachment
5. mada or ahankara — pride, hubris
6. matsarya — envy, jealousy

is only because of lack of proper discernment. if we truly sincerely scrutinize each aspects in its entirety, they will drop of themselves, as iit would dawn that they are not something to be possessed, they truly do not bestow us happiness as we deem it to be.

We are subject to these defects inspite of knowing them to be abhorred only because we have not put enough thought and discerned it completely.

If we truly sit in order to discern, then, it may dawn in a moment, a day a year, but it will happen.

What seems beautiful is not really beautiful, what seems pleasurable is not really pleasurable, what seem to give happiness, truly does not give happiness but only suffering.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 09, 2013, 09:33:16 PM
Two monks who came out of a lecture by their master went on a hot debate regarding what they heard during the lecture. Each of them insited that his understanding was the correct one. To settle the dispute, they went to see the master for a judgement.

After hearing the argument put forth by the first monk, the master said, "You are correct!" The monk was overjoy. Casting a winner's glance at his friend, he left the room.

The second monk was upset and started to pour out what he thought to the master. After he finished, the master looked at him and said, "You are correct, too." Hearing this, the second monk brightened up and went away.

A third monk who was also in the room was greatly puzzled by what he saw. He said to the master, "I am confused, master! Their positions regarding the issue are completely opposite. They can't be both right! How could you say that they are both correct?"

The master smiled as he looked into the eyes of this third monk, "You are also correct!"

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 18, 2013, 11:54:44 AM
(http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/060823_planting-sapling_TH.jpg)

   







Go on doing good, thinking holy thoughts continuously,
that is the only way to suppress base impressions.
Character is repeated habits, and repeated habits alone
can reform character.


Swami Vivekananda
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 03, 2013, 05:10:29 PM
Stray thoughts ...

"Ignorance of Self is Ego and its knowledge, its effacement!"

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 06, 2013, 05:59:09 PM
(http://fe867b.medialib.glogster.com/media/98/98c52c73977c78cdecb8ee2bd6d793a9210212e8d125ac13aaae491bd85edf78/rainbow.png)

My heart leaps up when I behold
A rainbow in the sky:
So was it when my life began,
So is it now I am a man,
So be it when I shall grow old
Or let me die!
The Child is father of the Man:
And I could wish my days to be
Bound each to each by natural piety.


William Wordsworth
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 07, 2013, 11:47:22 AM
Stray thoughts...

If we truly will and wish for something truly legitimate (that is desired towards God), and we are utmost sincere about it with a rock like conviction then God makes it happen or providence changes accordingly!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 07, 2013, 10:53:43 PM
Stray thoughts...

The self is not known through intellect, rather the intellect is known because of Self!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 12, 2013, 12:03:06 AM
Stray thoughts...

Coming to terms with maya (or that which is unreal) can be a painful process!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on June 12, 2013, 07:10:19 AM
Stray thoughts...

Coming to terms with maya (or that which is unreal) can be a painful process!

--

I hope it does not mean - coming to terms with THAT which sustains Maya (Truth) is an easy process ;) :)

Sanjay.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 12, 2013, 08:30:26 AM
Dear Sanjay,

 :)

I felt, there is no need for THAT to come in terns with itself. It would be yet another bondage if THAT felt a need to come in terms with itself. Therefore, there does not arise any questions of easy or difficulty with regard to 'what is!

The Self is always known and never to be attained.

It is only giving up what is unreal that is great difficulty as we have bonded with what is unreal strongly in several births.

The process of letting go completely happens exactly to the proportion of our recognition and coming to terms with what is not and not taking ashraya or shelter in unreality.

--



Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on June 12, 2013, 09:07:01 AM
Quote
It is only giving up what is unreal that is great difficulty as we have bonded with what is unreal strongly in several births.

Ah ok. I understood what you said the other way - "coming to terms" I thought you meant accepting unreal (which is not at all painful for people in the world). And I meant what you exactly put above as "painful".

Thanks :)

Sanjay.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 12, 2013, 12:26:27 PM
stray thoughts...

"True Recognition is free from interpretations"

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 09, 2013, 08:33:56 PM
One day Mother Teresa went to a local bakery to ask for bread for the starving children in the orphanage. The baker, outraged at people begging for bread from him, spat in her face and refused. Mother Teresa calmly took out her handkerchief, wiped the spit from her face and said to the baker, “Okay, that was for me. Now what about the bread for the orphans?” The baker, shamed by her response, gave her the bread she wanted.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 12, 2013, 11:26:26 AM
i just cannot grasp in what kind of inspiration Sivaprakasam pillai composed this wonder - Ramana Sadguru Rayane song, it springs so much bhavam from within, such great heart touching song this is!

one of my favorite verse is below:

வெத நாயகன் வெத புஷணன்
வெத மெயுரு வாயவன்;
காத லாய்ப்பர வாழ்வி னிற்கடி
தெறி நின்று களித்தவன்

ரமண ஸத்குரு ரமண ஸத்குரு
ரமண ஸத்குரு ராயனெ;
ரமண ஸத்குரு ரமண ஸத்குரு
ரமண ஸத்குரு ராயனெ;


Veda Naayagannn Veda Bussannannna
Veda Meyuru Vaayavannn;
Gaada Laayppara Vaazhvi Nnnirrgatti
Derri Ninnnrru Kallittavannn

Refrain

Ramanna Satguru Ramanna Satguru
Ramanna Satguru Raayannne;
Ramanna Satguru Ramanna Satguru
Ramanna Satguru Raayannne;

The Lord of the Vedas, the Jewel of the Vedas,
He is the Vedas Incarnate.
The delighter in life eternal gained by the power of his love,
Is Ramana Sat-Guru

Refrain

Ramana Sat-Guru, Ramana Sat-Guru,
Ramana Sat-Guru, my Lord!
Ramana Sat-Guru, Ramana Sat-Guru,
Ramana Sat-Guru, my Lord!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on July 12, 2013, 11:33:07 AM
Dear Nagraj,

Sri Ramana Sadguru poem is from Satyamangalam Venkataramana Iyer.  Totally, he composed 4 songs while he was
staying with Sri Bhagavan in Virupaksha Cave, for four days, one for each day.  On his return to his home, he sent
by post the fifth song Sri Ramana Sadguru to Sri Bhagavan.   These songs are sung on Saturdays in the Asramam during
evening parayana.   These songs were composed in 1910-11, well before even Sri Bhagavan composed Sri Arunachala
Stuti Panchakam.  Iyer never came again to have darshan of Sri Bhagavan.

1. KAlai PAttu
2. Kummi PAttu
3. PonnoLir Pattu
4. Ponnai otha Pattu
5. Sri Ramana Sadguru.

Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 12, 2013, 11:38:31 AM
Dear Sir,

thanks for correcting me, yes it was Satyamangalam Venkataramana Iyer. Friday and Saturday (specially saturday) parayanam is a treat for the heart, simple, where as the other days are little tougher and require bit effort!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 22, 2013, 09:02:54 PM
 The word anirvachaneeya seems perfect to "this"
 (http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3097/3255618909_7af1f6ddef_z.jpg?zz=1)

What is this
Who is this
?

?
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on July 22, 2013, 10:03:37 PM
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Beautiful! And so sweet... Indeed,who can ever tell...

I must share this picture,because,only look on it was so intoxicating.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Kolkatatemple.jpg/800px-Kolkatatemple.jpg)

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 25, 2013, 06:14:31 PM
Dear Sri Jewel,

"Serinity" is the word :)

stillness
..
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 25, 2013, 06:20:13 PM
making time, of the timeless
making boundaries, of the limitless
making something, of the nothing
making end, of the source

the plays of the gunas..
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 25, 2013, 06:32:33 PM
O' Self! Did Thou want
to see Thyself? why else
would Thou impose
limitations upon Thyself

what hast prompted Thou
to fall down in delusion?
could delusion even touch Thou?
hast Thou gained.. anything?

who hast taught Thou,
this play of making
unreal of the real and then
making real of the unreal

didst Thou want to attain
jnana and hence tried
to give way to ajnana?

O' Self why this try?, to
delude Thyself to fail
miserably? didn't Thou knew
before? who art Thou
trying to fool around? Thyself!

Could Thou fool Thyself?
Title: faith of the disciple
Post by: Nagaraj on July 28, 2013, 04:36:26 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Samarth_Ramdas_swami.JPEG/220px-Samarth_Ramdas_swami.JPEG)

   The faith of the disciple must always be securely grounded in his experience of the divinity of the Master. He must not be like a straw carried anywhere by the slightest breeze. He should be like a rock that remains unmoved in the severest of storms.

The story of Kalyan brings out the meaning of a really sound faith in the Master. Kalyan was a disciple of Swami Ramdas Samarth, who was a Perfect Master at the time of Shivaji. A Master loves all disciples alike, but some might be particularly dear to him — just as an individual loves all part of his body, though the eyes may be more dear to him than his fingers. Swami Ramdas Samarth had many disciples, but his favorite was Kalyan. The other disciples did not quite understand why Kalyan should be dearer to the Master than the others.

One day Swami Ramdas tested the devotion of his disciples. He asked all his disciples to come to him and pretended to be so sick as to be on the point of death. He had placed a mango on the joint of his knee and bound it in a bandage so that it looked like a huge swelling. Swami Ramdas pointed to this swelling and told the disciples that it was a malignant tumor and that there was no chance of his living unless someone sucked the poison from the joint of his knee. At the same time, he made it clear to all that whoever sucked out the poison would die instantaneously.

Then he asked whether any disciple was prepared to suck out the poison from the swelling at the cost of his own life. All the disciples hesitated except Kalyan, who arose immediately and began to suck from the swelling.
To his surprise Kalyan found sweet mango juice and not poison, and Swami Ramdas praised his unswerving faith and self-denying love.

To be willing to die for the happiness of the Beloved is true love. Such implicit faith, unfaltering love, and undivided loyalty as that of Kalyan can come to the disciple only through the Grace of the Master.



Swami Samarth Ramdas was the Guru of the great Maratha warrior Shivaji.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on July 28, 2013, 05:26:10 PM
Nagaraj/Friends,
Reminded of the Story of Nag Mahasaya ,the house holder disciple of Sri Ramakrishna about whom Swami Vivekananda said:"I have traveled many places in the world, but nowhere have I come across such a great soul as Nag Mahasaya".
Sri Ramakrishna was suffering from Throat cancer and the Doctors had said that the illness is incurable.One day the Master asked Suresh,a Friend of Nag Mahasaya:
"Where is that doctor? I hear, he knows medicine; please ask him to come here once." Nag mahasaya had Practised Homeopathy earlier in his career and had given it up later.
Suresh came and informed Nagmahashaya of it. In obedience to the commandment Nagmahashaya went to Cossipore. Sri Ramakrishna told him, "Oh, you have come, that's all right. The doctors and Kavirajas have given up hope of curing the disease. Do you know any charm to cure diseases? Just see, if you can effect any cure." Bending his head low Nagmahashaya thought for a while and then made a firm resolve to draw by his strong will-power, the fatal disease from the body of Sri Ramakrishna into that of his own. Suddenly a kind of abnormal excitement took possession of him and he cried out, "Yes, yes, I do know. Through Thy grace I know everything. This moment the disease can be cured." So saying, Nagmahashaya hastened towards Sri Ramakrishna. But the Master knew the disciple. He understood his motive, and warding him off from himself asking the others present-'Stop him from touching this Body';he remarked, "Yes, that is possible for you. You can cure the disease."
Nagmahashaya went for the last time to see Sri Ramakrishna some five or six days before his passing away. As soon as he entered the room, he heard the Master saying, "Can Amalakee be had now? My taste has become so flat for everything! I think it can be removed if I could chew one Amalakee." Of the devotees present there, somebody said, "Sir, this is not the season for Amalakee. Where can we get it now?" Nagmahashaya thought that when the word Amalakee came out of the holy lips of the Master, it was sure to be had somewhere. For, he knew that whatever the Master wished for was sure to come to him somehow. Once Sri Ramakrishna desired to taste an orange and he was saying about it to Swami Adbhutananda. And strangely enough, Nagmahashaya, though he had no knowledge about the Master's desire, came to Dakshineswar that very day with oranges for the Master, who ate one with great relish. Remembering this incident, Nagmahashaya, without informing anybody, went away in search of Amalakee fruits. Two days passed away but Nagmahashaya did not turn up. These days he was busy searching for the fruit, constantly wandering from garden to garden. On the third day he appeared before Sri Ramakrishna with one Amalakee fruit in hand. The Master's joy knew no bounds. Being overjoyed like a child, he said: "Ah, what a beautiful Amalakee it is! How could you get it at this time of the season?"

continued....
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on July 28, 2013, 05:32:18 PM
The Life of Nag Mahasaya continued...
The Master then asked Swami Ramakrishnananda to prepare a meal for Nagmahashaya. Nagmahashaya then took his seat by the Master and began to fan him. The food was ready; but Nagmahashaya did not get up. Only when Sri Ramakrishna had asked him to go down and take his food, did he get up from the seat and go down. He took his seat but did not touch the meal. All requested him to take his food but Nagmahashaya remained silent. It was Ekadashi -- the day of fasting. But his real intention was that if Sri Ramakrishna kindly gave him Prasadam he would break his vow, though he did not open his mind to anybody. When Nagmahashaya would not touch the food by any means, Ramakrishnananda informed the Master about it. Sri Ramakrishna asked him to bring the food before him. It was done. Swami Ramakrishnananda held the plate of leaf before the Master who took a little from all the dishes, touched them with his tongue, and said, "Now go and give it to him; he will eat." Swami Ramakrishnananda brought down the plate and spread it again before Nagmahashaya. "Prasadam, Prasadam, holy Prasadam!" Nagmahashaya exclaimed and prostrated himself before the plate, and then he ate it. While eating the food, he devoured also the leaf on which the food was served. If anything was given to him as Prasadam, he would leave nothing of it. Swami Ramakrishnananda remarked that a kind of religious fervor of a high order was visibly manifested in Nagmahashaya on that day. After this incident the devotees of Sri Ramakrishna never used to serve Nagmahashaya any Prasadam on leaves. If by accident he was given Prasadam on leaves, all would wait upon him very cautiously, so that as soon as he had finished the meal, they might snatch away the leaf from him. When they gave him any fruit, they took out the stones lest he should devour them.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 29, 2013, 04:12:34 PM
Sri Ravi,

Just leaves a feel of longing, and prayers that some day, we too are able to atleast come somewhere close to such great devotees.

how pure are their hearts!!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 29, 2013, 04:26:16 PM
Importance of Acting - Making Right Choices - Taking Decisions.

I wanted to express some thoughts on the topic of 'choices' or the recognition of freedom to choose.

Many subjects of spiritual related are usually misunderstood and are religiously followed but devoid of any spiritual fervour and discrimination.

One such subject that has been crossing my self is the topic of completely surrendering oneself to God. Yes, this is a very deep topic and the significance varies to different levels of people, the ordinary folks like ourselves and Sages, Sadhus.

Keeping ordinary folks like ourselves, i have seen some people, in their belief, totally refuse to take any decision or action in matters of importance and leave it in the hands of God and face the results of their actions.

It is different matter that some of them are also open hearted in facing the results as they come. But this is not to be glorified!!!

But, we fail to realise that they do not really surrender to God but just leave the situation to be taken hold by others around, who influence the course of actions based on their wisdom.

Infact if we truly see, such people are only surrendering the situations not to God but surrendering the situations to other people near us, only because we are unwilling to take any decision.

There are some tough decisions that ought to be taken at various instances, either due to lack of clarity or being unable to take sides, if we keep postponing, then we are not doing justice to our Dharma.

Buddha had said: "All that we are is the result of what we have thought" Hence it is very important to realise to act diligently.

"Surrendering to God", everything, i felt is one of the mostly spiritually abused concept. Refusing to act appropriately and taking responsibility at right times, and hiding oneself in the name of surrendering all to God and inviting distasteful outcomes is unbecoming of a true discriminating human being.

Hence it is of importance that we really utilise the great power of our birth, discriminate between truth and untruth and live diligently and take Dharmic decisions, even if they are not of  our personal liking. Because what we do  we get back as fruits.

If we dont take decisions where it ought to be taken, others would take our decisions, not God, if we surrender such situations to God.

This topic is not well written, but i pray the  matter is conveyed. Thank you.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 29, 2013, 04:30:54 PM
Stray thoughts...

if we don't take decisions, somebody else makes decision for us and its not God's job to make our decisions!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on July 29, 2013, 04:43:51 PM
Yes, dear Nagaraj. I share your opinion! Lord Krishna did not teach to renounce action but to renounce the desire for the fruits of our actions, to surrender all our actions to God!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 31, 2013, 06:22:06 PM
stray thoughts...

The mother outweighs brahma jnana.

(within mother is father)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 01, 2013, 05:09:26 PM
Stray thoughts...

intense desire itself is meditation!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on August 01, 2013, 06:19:28 PM
Yes, intense desire leads to one pointedness to the desired object. But isn't the fear the same?
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 01, 2013, 06:46:04 PM
Hari, Yes true, its the same for fear as well, anything! When we discern, it will dawn that there is nothing more superior to desiring or wanting God or Self or the Holy feet of the Guru. When this desire grows, it sprouts saplings of Vairagya, Bhakti, Yearning. Then the currents of the waves itself would pull us along the ocean, the abode of the Lord!
--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 01, 2013, 07:44:13 PM
Dear Hari,

No one desires fear.  Suppose fear comes it is not due to desiring fear.  Fear causes to flight.  We want to move away
from fear by going to some places or meeting some people.  Fear has got an inside mechanism of going away from fear.
No fear lasts for more than a hour unless it is a psychtic probem,  Fear in a bad dream makes us get up immediately.
So also fear in waking state makes us get out of the spot.  This is what modern psycholgists also say about fear.
Suppose you are chased by a mad elephant you run away from it. 

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 01, 2013, 07:49:46 PM
Dear Hari,

In a barracks one soldier was always getting up late for roll call.  One day the Major told him that if he were to come for
roll call late next morning, he would be shot down.  Next morning he came in time. But he was carrying a big gun instead
of the rifle!  What gave him power to lift that one ton gun?  It is the fear.  Fear  has got in built mechanism to over come
it someway or other. 

A Brahma Jnani has no fear whatsoever, because God is within him.

Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on August 01, 2013, 07:51:01 PM
Dear Hari,

No one desires fear.  Suppose fear comes it is not due to desiring fear.  Fear causes to flight.  We want to move away
from fear by going to some places or meeting some people.  Fear has got an inside mechanism of going away from fear.
No fear lasts for more than a hour unless it is a psychtic probem,  Fear in a bad dream makes us get up immediately.
So also fear in waking state makes us get out of the spot.  This is what modern psycholgists also say about fear.
Suppose you are chased by a mad elephant you run away from it. 

Arunachala Siva.

Sri Subramanian, yes. I gave as example of one-pointedness and it is very powerful one. If you are deadly ill for example you think only for the disease and about death. When you have an exam tomorrow you think only about that.
Title: Western girl explains Hinduism so well!
Post by: Nagaraj on August 02, 2013, 10:34:44 AM
Basics of Hinduism by Gauri Maheshwari (Danielle Riordan)

(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/GtTM9Oxkd5I/maxresdefault.jpg)

MUST WATCH BY EVERYBODY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfeC5niJ7S0&list=FL7ajHF5daiCUuy5OlIIxUAA&feature=mh_lolz (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfeC5niJ7S0&list=FL7ajHF5daiCUuy5OlIIxUAA&feature=mh_lolz)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 07, 2013, 11:56:54 AM
stary thoughts...

never mix up inner life with outer life.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 09, 2013, 11:16:42 AM
stray thoughts...

what happens during deep sleep?

What is seen is recollected.

Dream state:

When we dream, then the dream is recollected in waking state.

Waking State:

We see, recollect as it is, as we see.

Deep Sleep State:

Since nothing is seen, nothing is recollected ---> This is recollected, that there was nothing. You recollected that there was nothing to recollect.

The Self ever is. That same self in sushupti is ever present even in waking state, undisturbed.

--

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 10, 2013, 04:46:28 PM
Stray thoughts...

Grace is the beginning and the end (anAdi ananta - beginning-less and endless). What seems in between is only illusion. What is, is just Grace alone!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 26, 2013, 10:18:05 AM
Stray thoughts...

a saying or a definition in samskrit goes thus...

गृह्यते इति गृहः

gṛhyate iti gṛhaḥ

That which (holds/grasps/not free/dependent/to belong) is house

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 26, 2013, 11:03:13 AM
(https://sphotos-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098188_421959491246875_1277650890_n.png)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 26, 2013, 11:09:05 AM
Stray thoughts...

if you can't do anything, just look at your Guru.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 29, 2013, 07:03:40 PM
Stray thoughts...

The self can never be not-known. It is ever known, it cannot be not known! We just need to carefully and attentively see it, know it well, so that we do not lose a grip of it. Once known clearly, then even if it has to be forgotten it cannot be forgotten. The mind cannot rise to trouble, it has to automatically give up, as it realises its shallow nature and simply gives way to that which is.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 30, 2013, 10:42:00 AM
(https://sphotos-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/p480x480/1098274_414545378654953_1618613498_n.jpg)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 30, 2013, 11:18:42 AM
Stray thoughts...

Being humble is also ego - very small ego.

To be humble always is excellent. But to be become aware that being humble is also a very small 'ego' is to nourish the wisdom! The Sage says to go beyond even this, the sahaja 'sthithi' or natural 'state' It is neither ego nor non-ego, or it is both, ego and non-ego.

The protocol remains, not to showing advaita bhava to guru etc... which all falls under 'ego'

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 30, 2013, 11:22:09 AM
Stray thoughts...

This also one has to pass through journey within.

that one has to be express oneself what one is seeing, in the presence of Self. Even to curtail oneself imagining that it would amount to blasphemy if one expresses from the presence of Self, would indicate the presence of ego, the good ego!!

All these have to be transcended!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on August 30, 2013, 11:58:30 AM
Stray thoughts...

Being humble is also ego - very small ego.

To be humble always is excellent. But to be become aware that being humble is also a very small 'ego' is to nourish the wisdom! The Sage says to go beyond even this, the sahaja 'sthithi' or natural 'state' It is neither ego nor non-ego, or it is both, ego and non-ego.

The protocol remains, not to showing advaita bhava to guru etc... which all falls under 'ego'

--

Dear Sri Nagaraj,

I find this to be absolutely true! Leave the sattwa also!

Leave all improvements,leave all movements of the mind alone,just the way thy are.
Reality is beyond all that.
Even transcendence is not needed. Nothing is needed. When all is left the way it is,it happen by itself. Or better to say,Reality shine on its own. In all fulness.

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on August 30, 2013, 12:40:35 PM
This is something very,very important,these thoughts,and i wish to post two poems from Zen Master Bankei here,which supports these very thoughts.



Keep your mind as it was
When you came into the world
And instantly this very self
Is a living "thus-come" one

Ideas of
What’s good , what’s bad
All due to
This self of yours.

(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/54/3b/74/543b74eaf0b3fadb64f4a99a68ff59a7.jpg)

Having created
the demon mind yourself
When it torments you mercilessly
You’re to blame and no one else

When you do wrong
our mind’s the demon
There’s no hell
To be found outside

Abominating hell
Longing for heaven
You make yourself suffer
In a joyful world

You think that good
Means hating what is bad
What’s bad is
The hating mind itself

Bankei "Song of Original Mind"
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 01, 2013, 12:48:42 PM
“If you are irritated by every rub, how will your mirror be polished?”

Rumi
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 02, 2013, 11:11:57 AM
Stray thoughts...

The object is to somehow 'get lost' and what matters where you get lost? be it dvaita advaita or visishtaadvaita or shunya? and does it even matter? one has to fall into the prey and be consumed

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 02, 2013, 11:15:07 AM
Stray thoughts...

Saints are neither Advaiti nor Dvaiti or Visishtadvaiti or just any such nonsenses!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 02, 2013, 11:18:35 AM
Stray thoughts...

To be a servant is actually loss of ego, as the servant has no will of his own, he is under the control of his master, he has no self will of his own, he cannot act on his own, he is to move only at the will of his Master. Infact, perfect Dvaita is pure Advaita, much purer, and ironically!

If you are a True Servant, then where are you? Are you?

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 02, 2013, 11:32:49 AM
Stray thoughts...

the ego-mind, first secures itself with ropes (its requirements) and ties itself into a strong pole or a tree and then jumps of the cliff in the name of surrender.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 02, 2013, 11:50:07 AM
Stray thoughts...

Advaita (Non-Duality) doesn't even admit itself!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 02, 2013, 05:12:51 PM
Stray thoughts...

it appears in general, Bhagavan is being made as a Buddha of our times. To what Buddha stood, his views on rituals, worship, etc... but in the end, they ended up being better ritualists! They have crafted their own scriptures all borrowed from Vedas and Upanishads.

The Roots of Vedas can never be broken, no matter how Buddha may be misunderstood no matter how Bhagavan Ramana or Ramakrishnar may be mi understood. This foundation is a must and can never be discarded!

The Apourusheya Vedas which revealed the Truth of Brahman, also revealed the auxiliary practices necessary. The Veda can never be wrong or wronged.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 03, 2013, 04:24:48 PM
Stray thoughts...

The benchmark of progress for ourselves can be easily determined by our reactions, the presence of of

1. kama — lust
2. krodha — anger
3. lobh — greed
4. moha — delusory emotional attachment
5. mada or ahankara — pride, hubris
6. matsarya — envy, jealou

We all may be decorated with various flowery knowledge, but when instigated, then is the real test of solvency, how easily we get affected shows to us the extent of erasement of the ego-mind.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 04, 2013, 06:52:53 PM
Stray thoughts...

What we get here is a spiritual cocktail juice!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: deepa on September 04, 2013, 10:06:43 PM
Stray thoughts...

Being humble is also ego - very small ego.

To be humble always is excellent. But to be become aware that being humble is also a very small 'ego' is to nourish the wisdom! The Sage says to go beyond even this, the sahaja 'sthithi' or natural 'state' It is neither ego nor non-ego, or it is both, ego and non-ego.

The protocol remains, not to showing advaita bhava to guru etc... which all falls under 'ego'

--

Swami chinmayananda's quote on humility..
"Humility is a strange value.. The moment one feels one has it, one loses it"
Very interesting..
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 04, 2013, 10:12:09 PM
Stray thoughts...

Being humble is also ego - very small ego.

To be humble always is excellent. But to be become aware that being humble is also a very small 'ego' is to nourish the wisdom! The Sage says to go beyond even this, the sahaja 'sthithi' or natural 'state' It is neither ego nor non-ego, or it is both, ego and non-ego.

The protocol remains, not to showing advaita bhava to guru etc... which all falls under 'ego'

--

Swami chinmayananda's quote on humility..
"Humility is a strange value.. The moment one feels one has it, one loses it"
Very interesting..

It is very interesting, yes. When I call someone good he strangely in no time disprove my judgement. When I call someone bad, strange enough in due time he shows that there is goodness in him. Interesting and strange. :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2013, 08:27:18 AM
Stray thoughts...

There is nothing to change or end.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2013, 10:27:54 AM
Stray thoughts...

So long there is an internal, there is also an external.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2013, 10:41:30 AM
Stray thoughts...

what is external is also internal and what is internal is also external.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2013, 10:46:16 AM
Stray thoughts...

When there is nobody
to abide as Self,
Self is.

When there is nobody
to just be,
Self is.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2013, 05:44:25 PM
Stray thoughts...

Just give up the quest for a moment!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2013, 11:04:46 PM
Stray thoughts...

There is no experience of jnana,
There is only experience of bhakti.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2013, 10:56:07 AM
Stray thoughts...

There just cannot be any transgression with God or the Pure Self!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 06, 2013, 11:10:36 AM
Stray thoughts...

There is no experience of jnana,
There is only experience of bhakti.

--

Stray thoughts...

Oh God, give me courage and show me the way to forget the experience, the experiencer and the experienced.

Sanjay
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2013, 02:36:44 PM
Stray thoughts...

It can also be observed like this -

Those who are unable to plead their helplessness to God and surrender are asked to enquire the source of the 'I' thought, that rises, or are asked to discrimininate between the real and unreal, and so on, then there comes a point where as Bhagavan says -

How can `I' eliminate itself? All that you need do is to find out its origin and stay there. Your effort can extend only so far. Then the Beyond will take care of itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach It. Then the 'I' is prepared to plead its helplessness to God and surrender.

:D

This is not to belittle this or that, but just to bring to light that how this is same as that and that is same as this. How the ego mind is caught in certain things strongly.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2013, 04:26:47 PM
Heavenly Father, Almighty God,
I humble myself before your Presence.
What a joy it is to come to you.
I thank you and I praise your infinite Majesty,
Omnipotence and Perfections.
Please forgive me of all my sins.
Lord I come to you in my nothingness.
I want to worship you and adore you,
to love you with all my heart,
with all my mind,
with all my soul
and with all my strength.


(http://lh3.ggpht.com/arunachalesha/RmZTCFngj-I/AAAAAAAAA2g/Lqzu7V4mZ28/arch-18_4.jpg)

I want to burn with desire for you like an angel.
I need you my Lord,
I am nothing without you.
I ask you to raise me before your Glory.
Shine your light upon me,
allow me to walk with you
and always do your Holy Will.
Protect me and bless me O Merciful Lord.
Fill me with your Holy Spirit,
grant me peace, love and joy.
Heal me, bless me and sanctify me O Lord;
make me a blessing for all those around me.


(Christian Prayer)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2013, 05:51:14 PM
Stray thoughts...

Bhakti is not means, it is the fruit, it is the end, it is the residue, it is the attainment!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2013, 06:43:09 PM
Stray thoughts...

Bhakti is Jnana Prasadam.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2013, 08:29:02 PM
(http://jnanagni.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/Ramakrishna_at_studio.jpg)

  (http://th07.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/f/2011/229/4/5/painted_dove_stock_png_by_mariamurphy-d3dfo47.png)(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/145/c/6/flowers_png_by_forsaken_resources-d511bi5.png)
"My mind is undergoing a change. I cannot take prasad any more.
The Real and the Appearance are becoming one to me.
Do you know what I saw just now? A divine form-a vision
of the Divine Mother. She had a child in Her womb.
She gave birth to it and the next instant began to swallow it;
and as much of it as went into Her mouth became void.
It was revealed to me that everything is void.
The Divine Mother said to me, as it
were: 'Come confusion! Come delusion! Come!'"
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 06, 2013, 09:34:29 PM
The Nature of Bhakti is that it does not seek a reason for its existence.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2013, 09:49:10 PM
Thank you Sri Ravi. Thats goes so deep within. Your expression are so very true. So very grateful for sharing this. Bowled over!!

 The Nature of Bhakti is that it does not seek a reason for its existence.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on September 07, 2013, 07:05:22 AM
Quote
The Nature of Bhakti is that it does not seek a reason for its existence.

Wonderful - that is 101% perfect bhakthi, the bhakthi that Bhagwan and Sri Ramakrishna had. I always wonder -

If you have Jnana and Bhakthi without Vairagya, you get an indulgent individual.
If you have Bhakthi and Vairagya without Jnana, you get a depressed individual.
If you have Jnana and Vairagya without Bhakthi, you get an arrogant individual.

As they teach in Math, in the Venn diagram of Jnana, bhakthi and Vairagya, blessed are those who just BE in the middle of overlap of all three.

Sanjay.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 07, 2013, 09:46:28 AM
Sanjaya,

Quote
If you have Jnana and Bhakthi without Vairagya, you get an indulgent individual.
If you have Bhakthi and Vairagya without Jnana, you get a depressed individual.
If you have Jnana and Vairagya without Bhakthi, you get an arrogant individual

This is  true.Just a small correction:

If one aspires for Jnana and Bhakthi and ignores Vairagya, you get an indulgent individual.
If one aspires for Bhakthi and Vairagya and ignores  Jnana, you get a depressed individual.
If one aspires for Jnana and Vairagya and ignores Bhakthi, you get an arrogant individual.

Namaskar

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 07, 2013, 10:20:01 AM
Sanjaya/nagaraj/Friends,

You may like to watch this video clip from Vireswar Vivekananda.The Scene is where after his father's death,Naren's family is dire straits where the family has to face Stark Hunger for a single meal a day!Provoked by his mother,Naren approaches Sri Ramakrishna to seek his intecession with Divine mother Bhavatarini to get a boon for the cessation of this misery.Sri Ramakrishna tells him:'Why don't you ask her yoursel.' Naren Tells Sri ramakrishna:'I do not know her.She listens to you'.Sri Ramakrishna tells him:'I have done it many times.She says that Sukha and dukkha have to borne.He then suggests:'Today is Tuesday Night,an auspicious one for the Mother.You go and ask her yourself'.
A firm conviction seizes Naren that he is going to The Divine mother.He goes to the temple and has the vision of Divine Mother!Beholding her ,he forgets the very purpose of his visit!He returns to sri Ramakrishna who asks him as to what the Divine mother said!Naren tells him that he has forgotten about it!Sri Ramakrishna sends him back to the Divine Mother.Naren again goes to the temple and on seeing the Divine mother asks for Jnana,Bhakti,Vairagya and Viveka.He returns to Sri Ramakrishna who again enquires whether he asked the Mother this time.Naren says -'No.I was ashamed to ask'!
This is one of the best movie on Sri Ramakrishna and swami Vivekananda-several other movies have been taken subsequently but this one comes close and the actors and the director have done a splendid job here.
Here is the Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCD7odV6_3w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCD7odV6_3w)

The complete movie in Bengali-vireswar vivekananda is available here.It is not difficult for someone familiar in Hindi to follow the Bengali.The songs are splendid.
The link to part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYjhmBoSQlA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYjhmBoSQlA)
The link to part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGawTJLI5Ks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGawTJLI5Ks)

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2013, 10:28:35 AM
Sri Ravi, Sri Sanjay,

Such a beautiful incident/scene, what compassion, what thrill!

(http://calorielab.com/news/wp-images/post-images/ostrich-head-in-sand-468x307.jpg)

--

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2013, 11:29:53 AM
Stray thoughts...

Excepting rarest of rare cases, it is essential to surrender to a living guru in flesh and blood, serve him, be with him, interact with him - this is the way to get ourselves purified! We cannot be our own Guru, our intelligence is limited. Yes Bhagavan has said Self is Guru, but, even Muruganar, who was so humble had to be near the Guru, even M had to be near his Master. We ought to know where we are. Mere knowledge gained through books and hearsay will not be enough to efface the ego. Ego is subtlest of the subtlest!

PS: Again a living Guru in flesh and blood need not just be somebody in just a loin cloth or dressed in an orange garb!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 07, 2013, 04:14:19 PM
Stray thoughts...

Excepting rarest of rare cases, it is essential to surrender to a living guru in flesh and blood, serve him, be with him, interact with him - this is the way to get ourselves purified! We cannot be our own Guru, our intelligence is limited. Yes Bhagavan has said Self is Guru, but, even Muruganar, who was so humble had to be near the Guru, even M had to be near his Master. We ought to know where we are. Mere knowledge gained through books and hearsay will not be enough to efface the ego. Ego is subtlest of the subtlest!

PS: Again a living Guru in flesh and blood need not just be somebody in just a loin cloth or dressed in an orange garb!

--

Totally agree about that! :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2013, 04:26:49 PM
Stray thoughts..

It does not mean, that one who feels a want for a living Guru, does not feel the presence of some Guru who has left his mortal coils! Infact, the That Guru manifests yet again as a Living Guru for the sake of the devotee just out of Love!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 07, 2013, 06:14:51 PM
Stray thoughts..

It does not mean, that one who feels a want for a living Guru, does not feel the presence of some Guru who has left his mortal coils! Infact, the That Guru manifests yet again as a Living Guru for the sake of the devotee just out of Love!

--

Yes, but it is much easier to serve and surrender to living Guru. The connection between Guru and sadhaka is much more vivid and strong. But this is not a denial of surrendering to 'dead' Guru. Guru is ONE and He is always present, with form or without form.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2013, 06:20:35 PM
i have not denied it Hari? Have i? what I have been stressing is, both are true. If one says, its undoing or lack of knowledge if one looks for a living Guru then it is discerned that it is no so. and if one says only living Guru would save us, then it is discerned that it is not so.

Could it not be either?

What is living or dead? are they not in our minds? A Guru is Guru! Some feel Gurus presence in books, some in Ashram, Some here some there, some within, some without. what matters how it is? why get into polemics, this is lesser that is great.

To each, each way!

God fulfills himself in many ways Lest one good custom should corrupt the world. - Tennyson

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 07, 2013, 06:25:08 PM
i have not denied it Hari? Have i? what I have been stressing is, both are true. If one says, its undoing or lack of knowledge if one looks for a living Guru then it is discerned that it is no so. and if one says only living Guru would save us, then it is discerned that it is not so.

Could it not be either?

What is living or dead? are they not in our minds? A Guru is Guru! Some feel Gurus presence in books, some in Ashram, Some here some there, some within, some without. what matters how it is? why get into polemics, this is lesser that is great.

To each, each way!

God fulfills himself in many ways Lest one good custom should corrupt the world. - Tennyson

--

I have just confirmed what you have said. I did not argue with you. :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2013, 06:31:10 PM
I have just confirmed what you have said. I did not argue with you. :)

yes yes, :) i did not refer to you.. i was just expressing, that i have always aspired to bring this middle cognition in my expressions all along!

A kind of strong holding onto or latching on to ones own truth is unhealthy. We need to discern that there are millions of ways, and the God or Self may do Its own bidding in mysterious ways. A kind of "seeing down upon" short-sightedly attitude is often seen upon other schools.

Such ones who are expected to see Guru in everything, are unable to see Guru in Living Flesh, how short-sightedly it could get?

This is just a positive criticism. A person who has surrendered to Formless Guru must be willing to face hard truths, and they will be thrust upon in any manner! They must be prepared for it!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2013, 06:35:35 PM
Stray thoughts...

So long one feels "This" only is highest truth, "That" is also there, still!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2013, 06:39:15 PM
Moreover Hari Friends,

it is not that one who looks for a living Guru, is not aware of the limitation of his body! One knows the body will pass away.

In Such a case, All the direct devotees of Bhagavan or Master were very short sightedly, as they surrendered to a Living Guru!

:D

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 07, 2013, 06:40:26 PM
I have always dreamed Guru to find me and guide me, in flesh or in spiritual body. It doesn't matter. But this is a rare gift these days. You are least have chance because you are living in India. :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 07, 2013, 06:42:40 PM
Moreover Hari Friends,

it is not that one who looks for a living Guru, is not aware of the limitation of his body! One knows the body will pass away.

In Such a case, All the direct devotees of Bhagavan or Master were very short sightedly, as they surrendered to a Living Guru!

:D

--

:)

I have heard of a Self-realized Guru in India - Nochur Venkataraman. If I have lived in India I would be regular visitor of this Man!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 07, 2013, 06:43:40 PM
Nagaraj/friends,

Quote
Such ones who are expected to see Guru in everything, are unable to see Guru in Living Flesh, how short-sightedly it could get?

This is just a positive criticism. A person who has surrendered to Formless Guru must be willing to face hard truths, and they will be thrust upon in any manner! They must be prepared for it

Yes.This is the essence of The 'Mahut God' parable of Sri Ramakrishna.If we understand this one single parable,it will rid us of cobwebs in our mind.

One needs to beware of the ego that may masquerade as the inner guru!

This 'guru' will never question one's disposition.It will then question and raise the issue with the 'Fake' guru and the mushrooming of such gurus -supercilious! :)

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2013, 06:45:30 PM
Hari, Friends,

Take for instance V Ganesan, Bhagavan's grand nephew, such an exalted soul himself had the need to go to Nisargadatta Maharaj, Mataji Krishnabai . What need was it for him? did he not know that Guru is Self? He had since his childhood days was nurtured by Kunju Swami and so many direct devotees, he had access to all direct devotees.

Our mind gets narrowed if we are within the four walls. I remember the story of Frogs as told by Swami Vivekananda, from the upanishad:

In the story he told, a frog used to live in a well. It was born there and brought up there and it used to think his well was the biggest waterland of the world. One day, a frog from a sea came to that well. When the frog from the sea told the frog of the well that sea is much much bigger than that well, the frog of the well did not believe it and drove the frog of the sea away from his well. Vivekananda concluded– "That has been the difficulty all the while. I am a Hindu. I am sitting in my own little well and thinking that the whole world is my little well. The Christian sits in his little well and thinks the whole world is his well. The Mohammedan sits in his little well and thinks that is the whole world."

Mataji Krishnabai  to Sri V Ganesan:

"Another important hurdle is that since you are related to Ramana Maharshi, everybody will tell you and treat you like you are already liberated. They will tell you that according to the Hindu scriptures, a realized Master‘s relatives are already realized beings. Seven generations preceding and the subsequent seven generations are supposedly free of karma. "

Further readings:

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6940.msg53167#msg53167 (http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6940.msg53167#msg53167)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 07, 2013, 06:57:10 PM
Hari,

Quote
I have heard of a Self-realized Guru in India - Nochur Venkataraman. If I have lived in India I would be regular visitor of this Man!

Sri Venkatraman is indeed a Great soul.It is indeed a Blessing to listen to his insightful and spontaneous exposition of Sri Bhagavan's writings.
His exposition of Srimad Bhagavatham is truly wonderful-He clearly brings out Sri Ramakrishna's saying on this unparalleled scripture-"Bhagavatham is a sweet -fried in the butter of knowledge and steeped in the Honey of Love". This is still work in progress-his talks are in tamizh (I mean the Bhagavatham in progress)

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2013, 07:19:52 PM
Stray thoughts...

Talking about fake Gurus that are mushrooming, i feel more fake Gurus mushroom' within than we seem to come across outside!

Disclaimer: Just talking about the ego, (not any body)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 07, 2013, 07:27:47 PM
Stray thoughts...

Talking about fake Gurus that are mushrooming, i feel more fake Gurus mushroom' within than we seem to come across outside!

Disclaimer: Just talking about the ego, (not any body)

--

If that was not so we would not be here talking about fake Gurus, etc. :D Ego is the greatest obstacle no matter what kind of philosophy someone follows - at least they concur about the ego. :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 08, 2013, 08:33:52 AM
i never really thought i may have to express this, it feels ridiculous but still it is being extracted, on account of views such as abandoning Self Enquiry, 3 differnet Gurus in the forms of Ramakrishna Ramana and Shirdi Sai Baba, obsessions, etc. If i go to say there are said to be 33 (3.3 million) crores of Gods in Hindu way. They are all my Gods. All the millions of Gurus are my Guru. This is Guru Paramapara. Begining from Vishnu -

Om Narayanam padmabhavam Vasishtam,
Shakthim , cha thath puthra parasaram cha.
Vyasam shukam gowdapatham mahantham,
Govinda yogeendra madhasya sishyam.
 
Sri Shankaracharya madhasya  padma padam cha,
Hasthamalakam cha sishyam,
Tham thotakam varthika kara manyan,
Asmad guroon santhatham manathosmi.                           
 
Om my salutations to Lord Narayana,
His disciple Padhma bhava, His disciple Vasishta,
His disciple Shakthi  , his son sage Parasara,
His son Vyasa, his son Shukha, his disciple the great Padmapada,
His disciple the great Yogi Govinda, His disciple Shankara,
His disciples Padma pada, Hasthamalaka , Thodagascharya,
And Sureswaracharya who wrote commentaries.

and the successive Gurus that have fo9llowed, they are all my Gurus. This is the vneration of Guru Parampara. Ramana Ramakrishna Shirdi Sai Baba Shankaracharyas, many others are all the same Guru.

For all the views that i have expressed, i practice only Self Enquiry un-intermittently. For all the Gurus that i have refered to, i only see the Ramanatvam. i belong to all schools of thoughts, all siddhantas. mentally i do nothing other than Self Enquiry. Yet i worship, i do service, i am being made to do everything. I see dvaita visidhtadvaita advaita shunya, and see no difference in all of them. yet i only do self inquiry alone un-intermittently at all times. I feel privileged, blessed to experience everything without being corrupt or narrowed to just "only"

He abandoned the greatness of his own state
To save his disciple,
Yet his true greatness has never been
abandoned.
Alone, there is no happiness;
Therefore, the pure Consciousness
Assumes the forms of Guru and disciple.

Although the guru and disciple appear to be two,
It is the Guru alone who masquerades as both

The words, “Guru” and “disciple”
Refer to but one;
The Guru alone exists as both these forms.

The words, “Guru” and “disciple”
Refer to but one;
The Guru alone exists as both these forms.

The Guru is both the receiver of knowledge
And the one who imparts it as well.
Still, he continues to uphold the relationship of Master and disciple.

Those who see this as some obsession are i am afraid still caught in the nets of duality, yet caught in some illusive non-duality, those who think these all means one has abandoned Self Enquiry are yet still caught in varieties!

A part of this post is a response to some members concerned, i do not deny. But i respond to myself of those views!

Thanks and Best to all!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 08, 2013, 10:07:14 AM
Nagaraj/Jewell/Hari/Friends,
I have posted the wonderful chapter from Sri Aurobindo's Synthesis of Yoga-'Four aids'.This I believe will be useful for a seeker on any path or follower of any Teacher.

Here is an excerpt:
Quote
The usual agency of this revealing is the Word, the thing heard (sruta). The Word may come to us from within; it may come to us from without. But in either case, it is only an agency for setting the hidden knowledge to work. The word within may be the utterance of the inmost soul in us which is always open to the Divine or it may be the word of the secret and universal Teacher who is seated in the hearts of all. There are rare cases in which none other is needed, for all the rest of the Yoga is an unfolding under that constant touch and guidance; the lotus of the knowledge discloses itself from within by the power of irradiating effulgence which proceeds from the Dweller in the lotus of the heart. Great indeed, but few are those to whom self-knowledge from within is thus sufficient and who do not need to pass under the dominant influence of a written book or a living teacher
.

Those interested may read the complete chapter here:
http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7216.0 (http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7216.0)

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Hari on September 08, 2013, 01:09:11 PM
We are talking so much about Guru, Ramana and so on. But imagine that one day you wake up in so far away island of Japan :D, without remembering anything before that. There is no Guru, there are no Scriptures. At the same time the long in your heart about knowing the Ultimate Reality is there. Who will guide you? No 'living' Guru, no 'non-living' Guru, no Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads, Bible, Vivekachudamani, Koran, Ramanuja, Madhva, nobody, nothing. Do you have a chance for Self-realization? :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: ksksat27 on September 08, 2013, 01:23:53 PM
Moreover Hari Friends,

it is not that one who looks for a living Guru, is not aware of the limitation of his body! One knows the body will pass away.

In Such a case, All the direct devotees of Bhagavan or Master were very short sightedly, as they surrendered to a Living Guru!

:D

--

:)

I have heard of a Self-realized Guru in India - Nochur Venkataraman. If I have lived in India I would be regular visitor of this Man!

Dear Hari,

I have attended one live lecture of Sri Sri Nochur acharya.  I have bought few of his CDs also.

I wish to state this here:

Nochur Acharya never confirmed of his self realization or told any statement hinting that he is fully self realized (according to me ,  other learned people can correct me)

Only all his followers adore him as Self Realized.  His mission is very clear,  beautiful.  He only , one and only,  expounds our Bhagavan and his teaching in a very beautiful way.

He is a mystic,  he had many inner experiences,  he knew what he spoke as I observed him.

But for all this,  only we the followers immediatley jump and put a garland of self realization.

As for Sri Nochur Acharya,  he ever abides as Himself without the need to hastly proclaim something.

No offense meant for Nochur devotees -- people are free to believe and worship , but all I want to tell is,  now the world will give all boost,  later one should not re-visit the opinion, so better,  you first finish your assessment (not arrogant every disciple should do this) and then if it appeals from inner Heart, please take him as a jnani. .  (not only for Hari for everybody including myself)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 08, 2013, 04:42:37 PM
ksksat27(Krishna):

Quote
Nochur Acharya never confirmed of his self realization or told any statement hinting that he is fully self realized (according to me ,  other learned people can correct me)

Please stand corrected. :)

Quote
"It is only when one is clear that one can expound it"

This is how Sri Nochur ended his talks on 'nAn yAr'.

We need to only be concerned whether we are helped,whether we are getting the clarity-This is all that one can be sure of.This is all that matters.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 08, 2013, 04:53:54 PM
Stray thoughts...

it just feels disgustingly disrespectful and shies away to even to use the term 'Guru', hereafter!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 08, 2013, 06:39:30 PM
Krishnan, its not meant to you or anybody!

its just myself, what i have been experiencing for some time!

Please feel free and do not get contracted.

Wishing you the best!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 08, 2013, 06:46:16 PM
Krishnan,

only i would prefer if you can pursue this discussion on in Rough Note book. i would be very grateful! :)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 08, 2013, 06:52:34 PM
Stray thoughts...

There is nothing more than just what is, as it is, without our interpretations!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 09, 2013, 08:06:08 PM
Stray thoughts...

holding to 'i' means, holding on to the wisdom, the 'knowledge', the 'remembrance'. there is not any necessity to hold on to some 'i' such an 'i' does not exist, as it is revealed to be illusion, a shadow. So long there is a holder, to hold on to something, enquiry has to be made further on!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 09, 2013, 10:24:16 PM
A bird sat absent-mindedly on the mast of a ship anchored in the Ganges. Slowly the ship sailed out into the ocean. When the bird came to its senses, it could find no shore in any direction. It flew toward the north hoping to reach land; it went very far and grew very tired but could find no shore. What could it do? It returned to the ship and sat on the mast. After a long while the bird flew away again, this time toward the east. It couldn't find land in that direction either; everywhere it saw nothing but limitless ocean. Very tired, it again returned to the ship and sat on the mast. After resting a long while, the bird went toward the south and toward the west. When it found no sign of land in any direction, it came back and settled down on the mast. It did not leave the mast again, but sat there without making any further effort. It no longer felt restless or worried. Because it was free from worry, it made no further effort.

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 09, 2013, 11:35:12 PM
Nagaraj,

Quote
Sri Ravi, again some random thoughts... Else where you had expressed this. This is sole purpose of a Guru, be it internal or external and whether internal or external, how does it matter? i believe in my own little way, what Bhagavan meant when he said that true Guru is within, is the wisdom, is the nature of wiling to be helped! This nature is broadly known as 'wisdom'
As He further said, this nature of being helped purely depends on ourselves, if we go with small cup, we get only cup full but if we go with bigger ones, we get that much, and he revealed that it is entirely upto us and there is no use complaining the niggardliness of the ocean!
once, one has tapped into this nature, this wisdom, what matters if the Guru is within or without, for him the whole universe becomes the Guru. The Guru is neither within or without.
That Guru is the wisdom, our nature to be willing to be helped or merge

Quite true friend.It is alright even if we carry a spoon.What if I carry an inch tape and try to measure?This is the problem I find in many persons.
The other thing that intrigues me is this -In this workaday world we are consulting others for anything unknown to us;we do not hesitate to learn from others.we think the  'Guru' is not relevant for these things or putting it the other way,that he has arranged all this.Now here is the Interesting thing-When one thinks of consulting or learning from any spiritual sadhak or Teacher,this is considered as Taboo or not being faithful to the 'Guru'.One then tends to believe that one has to only derive all the inspiration and guidance from the so called 'Guru'(I mean manasika) .It is indeed very well if one can derive such an inspiration and takes to it in right earnest.
Yet,what should also be appreciated is that the guidance of Great ones,should one be fortunate to find one ,it will be of tremendous help in dismantling cobwebs lurking unknown in the deep recesses of one's mind.A few direct blows to the 'Ego' will also set one straight and on the royal path.Why not view this also as arranged by the One and Only Guru-God?
In all these matters,Each one has to be lead by his Prayers.I have a very Good friend who always was a big votary of Vichara and only that,a Devotee of Sri bhagavan.After years of this practice,he decided to be initiated into Kriya yoga(Lahiri Mahasaya's lineage).He still loves Sri Bhagavan and considers him and also Sri Ramakrishna as his father and Mother.It is not as if he was a 'dabbler' but an intensely serious sadhaka,a Brahmachari who has now quit his job and is focussing on his sadhana Full time-a wonderful soul.
I also came across another devotee who was caught up in turmoil-to choose her Ishta!Sometimes she liked Sri Ramakrishna,Sometimes Holy Mother and sometimes Swami Vivekanda.She had posted it in the Holy Trio Forum ddicated to Sri Ramakrishna Devotees.I happened to see it,and as I found that the Forum Members were not responding adequately -I sent a mail to her Id.I am not a member of that Forum .She was profusely thankful. These things happen and one cannot be only sentimental about these things and wallow in it.
God is one and the whole world is our Guru-This is why God has sent us into this world to be schooled here.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 10, 2014, 09:26:03 AM
Dear Friends,

After some time, i found something really worthwhile sharing with you. Please do take some time to watch it. It may be of interest to each one of us in our journeys. Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QLGvp_stI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QLGvp_stI)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on January 11, 2014, 11:50:47 AM
Nagaraj,
Good talk.Wonderful to know that there are people who are living it.This is what Swamiji said:
"This life is short, the vanities of the world are transient, but they alone live who live for others, the rest are more dead than alive"
Thanks very much.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 25, 2014, 12:20:28 PM
Stray thoughts...

Lord Krishna says in Gita -

कर्मणयेवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन।
मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भूर्मा ते सङ्गोऽस्त्वकर्मणि।
   2.47

कर्मणयेवाधिकारस्ते

Karmanye Vadhikaraste, we have all right, choice, freewill, upon any karma, or action. Mostly we have taken it for granted that it is "to perform" but it subtly also conveys we also have choice to remain still, to become free of all karmas. But of-course, this needs to be discerned in the right spirit and not with perversion.

But only we do not have the choice or preference to the expectations. Therefore, even the non performance of karmas, if being ones choice, also will have its fruits.

:)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 03, 2014, 09:08:31 AM
Stray thoughts...

The Lord yearns for his beloved devotees that he suffers Himself to enjoin Himself wherever that Jivatma may be just like Lord Rama yearned for Sita went to Lanka, just like Krishna yearned for Radha would always be in her remembrance.

The Lord is so gracious that he becomes Himself a Jivatma and makes the Jivatma, a Paramatma in order to simply undergo the same yearning as His beloved devotee.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 27, 2014, 07:17:02 PM
In the happy moments, praise Him,
In the difficult moments, seek Him,
In the busy moments, bless Him,
In the quiet moments, worship Him.

In the waiting moments, trust Him,
In the painful moments, touch Him,
In the lovely moments, thank Him,
In the quiet moments, worship Him.

For the glory in all our moments,
He is there,
In goodness, in kindness, in love.

(Unknown)

(http://ayay.co.uk/backgrounds/nature/sunrises_and_sunsets/a-ray-of-hope.jpg)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on March 28, 2014, 09:01:53 PM
They who know the truth are not equal to those who love it,
and they who love it are not equal to those who delight in it.


~ Confucius
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 29, 2014, 11:09:32 AM
"two Two little mice fell in a bucket of cream. The first mouse quickly
gave up and drowned. The second mouse, wouldn't quit.
He struggled so hard that eventually he churned that
cream into butter and crawled out."

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 04, 2014, 07:04:04 PM
stray thoughts...

"To come to terms with Truth is that
there is no coming to terms with Truth!"

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 02, 2014, 10:53:37 AM
There was once a man got stranded on an island after his ship became wreck. Every day he prayed asking God to send someone to rescue him, but to his disappointment, no one ever came.

Months passed and this man learned how to survive on the island. During this time, he accumulated things from the island and stored them in a hut that he constructed. One day after hunting for food and returning back to his hut, much to his dismay he saw that his hut was on fire along with everything else he owned!
All of his possessions were going up in smoke! The only thing he had left were the clothes on his back. Initially he was in shock, and then he was consumed with anger and rage!

In his fury he threw a fist into the air and began cursing God and yelling, ?God, how could you let this happen to me? I?ve been praying everyday for months about being rescued and no one has come, and now everything that I have is on fire! How could you do to this to me! Why did you let this happen??

Later the man was on his hands and knees weeping heavily when he happened to look up and catch sight of a ship coming in his direction. The man was rescued and as they were heading back to civilization the man asked the captain, ?How were you able to find me??

The captain responded, ?We were voyaging across the ocean when we noticed on the horizon a column of smoke going up. We decided to go check it out and when we did, that?s when we found you!?

In life we are going to be confronted with challenges, problems, and disasters. But keep in mind that what the devil has meant for bad, God can transform into your good! What is a catastrophe can sometimes be a blessing in disguise. ?The righteous cry out, and the Lord hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles. The Lord is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all.?

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 07, 2014, 10:07:41 AM
Stray thoughts...

"Loss of mind falls neither of the left nor right nor centre. It is simply lost!"




"Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,
But neither arrest nor movement. And do not call it fixity,
Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards,
Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point,
There would be no dance, and there is only the dance."

~ T. S. Eliot
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 24, 2014, 10:49:46 PM
To Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love
All pray in their distress;
And to these virtues of delight
Return their thankfulness.

For Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love
Is God, our father dear,
And Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love
Is Man, his child and care.

For Mercy has a human heart,
Pity a human face,
And Love, the human form divine,
And Peace, the human dress.

Then every man, of every clime,
That prays in his distress,
Prays to the human form divine,
Love, Mercy, Pity, Peace.

And all must love the human form,
In heathen, Turk, or Jew;
Where Mercy, Love, and Pity dwell
There God is dwelling too.

William Blake
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 25, 2014, 12:06:34 AM
"Devotion to the mother is the root of all welfare.?

Swami Vivekananda
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 26, 2014, 07:44:05 PM
Stray thoughts...

Time is fleeting, there is not enough time left, Kala-Purusha is slowly eating the prAna away, therefore give up vain pursuits, give up vain philosophical studies, give up everything, and wake up, wake up to the Real Pursuit. Time is fleeting. Do not depend on next birth!

If there is a moment, it is only NOW!



   आशया बद्ध्यते लोकः कर्मणा परिबद्ध्यते |
   आयुःक्षयं न जानाति तस्मात् जागृहि जागृहि ||
   जन्मदुःखं जरादुःखं जायादुःखं पुनः पुनः |
   अंतकाले महादुःखं तस्मात् जागृहि जागृहि ||
   कामक्रोधौ लोभमोहौ देहे तिष्ठन्ति तस्कराः |
   ज्ञानरत्नापहाराय तस्मात् जागृहि जागृहि ||
   ऐश्वर्यं स्वप्नसंकाशं यौवनं कुसुमोपमम् |
   क्षणिकं जलमायुश्च तस्मात् जागृहि जागृहि ||


        Awaken! awaken! The world is bound by the desire and subjugated by
[its own] actions. It does not realize the depleting life-span.
Awaken, awaken from that. Pain of birth, pain of old age, pain from
the wife happen again and again. In the last days [of life] great
sorrow befalls. Awaken, awaken from that. Passion and anger,
stinginess and delusion dwell in the body. They are robbers, who
steal the jewels of knowledge. Awaken, awaken from that. Wealth is
like a dream and the youth is like a flower[which withers away one
day]. They and also the life-span are transient like [flowing]
water. Awaken, awaken from that.

(http://www.21st-century-christianity.com/images/Wake-Up-77.jpg)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 26, 2014, 08:09:26 PM
In the whirlpool of fleeting sensual pleasures, you have forgotten the purpose of life and its goal. In your pursuit after the phantom-shows of worldly vanities, you have annihilated the spiritual instincts and longings of the soul. What a sad state! Mysterious is Maya! Mysterious is Moha!

You do not know even a single Sloka of the Gita or the Upanishads. You do not know how to sit on Padmasana. You do not know the efficacy of Mantra, Kirtana. You do not know anything about self-analysis, mind-control, self-restraint, concentration and introspection. You have lived in vain! You have wasted this precious life. Hotels, restaurants, cinema houses are your abodes of immortality or Vaikuntha Dhama. Really you are leading a miserable life. If you can talk something on dry politics, you think you are a great hero!

Time is fleeting. The night is wasted in sleep and pleasure. The day is wasted in idle talk, amassing money and maintenance of the family. Days, months and years are rolling away. Hairs have become grey. Teeth have fallen. You are attached to perishable objects through Moha. Tell me, friends, how long will you be a slave to the fleeting things of the world? How long are you going to repeat the same sensual enjoyments? How long do you wish to worship mammon and woman? When will you find time to meditate on the Lord and to do virtuous deeds? Think and reflect.

Kings and lords will pass away. This world will pass away with all its occupants. The sun, moon and stars will pass away. All joys and sorrows will pass away. Wife, children, wealth, property will pass away. The five elements, the earth and heaven will pass away. Only Brahman, the Pure Satchidananda, will shine eternally.

O man! Wealth, vehicles, sons, women, dominions, property are worthless! They are all perishable. Seek the lotus feet of the Lord and attain immortality, eternal bliss and supreme peace!


Swami Sivananda
Title: Must Watch...
Post by: Nagaraj on July 26, 2014, 08:41:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULLMO_LfIVU&list=PL_yIBWagYVjwRGhR4bPT1vrqU82i6ryC-#t=82 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULLMO_LfIVU&list=PL_yIBWagYVjwRGhR4bPT1vrqU82i6ryC-#t=82)

Do you have elderly parents or in-laws at home? Do you talk to them? This beautiful video is a telling picture of oldage in Indian nuclear families

Everyone eventually ages. And in the lonely and insecure days at the end of your life, you want to be around the few people you love and helped nurture into good human beings. But this isn't always the case with many senior citizens who die a lonely death, cut off from children and grandchildren who are engrossed with their own lives. Watch this video. It will bring a lump to your throat. Seriously, don't neglect the elderly. All they want to do is talk.


--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 26, 2014, 10:19:03 PM
Stray thoughts...

Spiritual Life asks for COURAGE, it demands for your strongest Will, "Dhriti" - 'Resolve' and sometimes a seeker may have to really renounce things to really "Renounce" and not hide in the garb of mental renunciation! A Spiritual seeker must be willing to take bold steps and be willing to venture into the unknown. A Seeker ought to posses an attitude of "matter of fact" with Viveka. What is He to loose? what is He to gain? A seeker ought to wake up from spiritual slumber. It is not enough to merely play around in the ground of ocean of spiritual quest, one has to sink completely into the waters.

Be Bold!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 28, 2014, 08:34:28 PM
"Name of the Hari is only a means. To fix the position of non-duality is an art and to experience this is very rare".

(Jnaneshwar)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 29, 2014, 10:01:54 PM
शत्रौ मित्रे पुत्रे बन्धौ
मा कुरु यत्नं विग्रहसन्धौ
सर्वस्मिन्नपि पश्यात्मानम्
सर्वत्रोत्सृज भेदाज्ञानम् ॥


Do not make efforts in separating from or joining
with a foe or friend or son or relative.
See Thine own Self everywhere.
Completely get rid of
the ignorant conception of differentiation everywhere!



(Do not waste your time in setting right the family narratives.
It is a useless effort and wastes your precious time too.
Everyone gets provoked by the chemicals acting in their brain and body.

There is no meaning in their anger, joy, love or hatred. They just react to outer circumstances and have no purpose in life. Their very existence is to feel anxious and suffer.

If you have the goal of realizing your Self, then stop worrying about the life narratives. Watch every event like a witness. Do not feel anxious about everything. See everything as a projection of your own Self. See it as a dream concocted by your mind. - Tejasvini)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 30, 2014, 11:39:22 AM
Sadie doesn't want her brother to grow up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84DLT4yRcy4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84DLT4yRcy4)

A fit canditate for "mumukshatva" pretty early :)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 31, 2014, 10:08:31 AM
stray thoughts...

When you wholly depend on God, then there no longer any dependence. Only once can one really surrender, only once can one really prostrate. Then it is all finished!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 01, 2014, 04:17:29 PM
stray thoughts...

know well, dear self, that you are your own boss. exert your highest purushartha and take yourself to the goal that you have set for. Uddharet Atmanatmanam says Krishna. Grace is like the silent letter in a word. Do not pay that much attention to Grace. Grace descends of its own accord upon the sincere exercise of your fullest will.

Do not delude yourself with imaginations that due to the grace of God a magic carpet will come and take us to the destination.

Strive diligently. The less we depend on grace, the more it flows.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: ksksat27 on August 01, 2014, 04:54:18 PM
today all your Musings I read are beautiful.Thankyou very much.

Who is Tejasvini? Listed in one of the couplets?

Very beautiful reminder from Sri Sivananda. 

Thankyou again Sri Ganesh.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 02, 2014, 12:10:12 PM
Thanks Krishnan
Title: Must See Video: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 02, 2014, 12:13:10 PM
Must See Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YOL5Jt3U1c&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YOL5Jt3U1c&feature=youtu.be)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 03, 2014, 12:52:46 PM
Stray thoughts...

for an advaitin, what is seen as dvaita by the dvaitin, what is seen as visishtaadvaita by the visishtaadvaitin, what is seen as shunya by the buddhists is verily shuddha "Advaitam" - pure advaita

for an dvaitin, what is sen as advaita by the advaitin, what is seen as visishtaadvaita by the visishtaadvaitin, what is seen as shunya by the buddhists is verily shuddha "Dvaitam" pure dvaita

for a visishtaadvaitin, what is sen as advaita by the advaitin, what is seen as dvaita by the dvaitin, what is seen as shunya by the buddhists is verily shuddha "Visishtaadvaitam" pure visishtaadvaita

for a buddhist, what is sen as advaita by the advaitin, what is seen as dvaita by the dvaitin, what is seen as visishtaadvaita by the visishtaadvaitin, is verily shuddha "shunyam" pure shunya

and so on... whatever else exists

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 04, 2014, 08:54:37 AM
stray thoughts...

it is avidya 'nescience' that feeds the 'knower' and the 'known' / 'perceiver' and the 'perceived'
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 04, 2014, 09:14:31 AM
stray thoughts...

vidya is knowing without the process of knowing, vidya is to discern the real knower and the pseudo knower. The pseudo knower requires a 'known' in knowing, as the perceiver and perceived, whereas the real knower requires no 'known' as as the perceiver and perceived.

The real knower knows without the 'known' perceives without the perceived, real knower knows without the process of knowing, as it is just itself.

Pseudo knower requires knowledge in knowing, whereas the real knower requires no knowledge at all! nothing is hidden from That so as to know. It is choicelessly just 'present', as neither a knower or the known nor as a witness or the witnessed, yet remains as the knower and witness, without any knowing and witnessed even though it has no need for any knowing or witnessing.

It does not know and yet knows, it does not witness and yet is a witness, it does not see and yet sees.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 05, 2014, 06:38:41 PM
stray thoughts...

Instead of being obsessed with the thought of getting rid of the ego, and the realisation of the Truth, begin to see the unreality of things, then the grip of avidya, ego begin to  wither away along with it.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 05, 2014, 06:45:20 PM
stray thoughts...

what is of interest to a small child is of no interest to a grown up adult.
The adult sees no longer any joy in the interest seen by the child!

Similar is the secret of getting over vaasanas / desires nay even the ego!

--
Title: MUST WATCH: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 06, 2014, 03:16:32 PM
MUST WATCH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BxPz8TX0Oo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BxPz8TX0Oo)

In a world that is so full of selfish people, sometimes it helps to learn from animals. Animal in question? An abandoned dog, Lilica.

This dog was abandoned in front of a junkyard in Sao Paolo, Brazil, and was taken in by the kind owners. Lilica made new friends at the junkyard, including other dogs, cats and chickens.

But food is always hard to come by, especially at the poverty stricken junkyard, and every evening Lilica would leave to find food. And find food she did, outside the home of an animal lover.

But what happened next is so heartwarming that it will make you question your own habits.

Watch for yourself.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Jewell on August 07, 2014, 12:48:09 AM
This is one truly heart touching video,dear Sri Nagaraj! She is sooooooo sweet and cute. A true sannyasi.
I cannot explain how i felt whille watching it.

Thank You so much for sharing this!

With love and prayers,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on August 07, 2014, 07:56:34 AM
Nagaraj,
What a sensitive and sensible being this dog is!What a spirit of sharing ,taking pains to walk kilometers to carry food for others!The good Lady who waits for the dog everyday is truly a  noble soul,so selfless and caring.
Thanks very much.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 07, 2014, 10:17:52 AM
stray thoughts...

a googly!

it would do immense good to man, if he were to disbelieve God and put trust on his own self for God does not need our belief on Him to shower His love. Ironically, sometimes, its our faith on God filled with ideas, that is being really detrimental to the Spirit.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 08, 2014, 11:51:58 PM
stray thoughts...

Let the Eyes look at the Lord, 
Let the Ears listen to the Lord
Let the Mouth sing the Lord
Let the Limbs serve the Lord
Let the Mind contemplate on the Lord
Let the Heart reside in the Lord

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 09, 2014, 08:22:01 PM
stray thoughts...

There will be a rapid progress spiritually when we "stop complaining".

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 12, 2014, 12:50:52 AM
stray thoughts...

waste not the time, every moment is VERY PRECIOUS, utilise every moment for your highest good, see not the difficulties,and engage yourself diligently in the thought of God, for each moment is invaluable, and life is ebbing away.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 12, 2014, 01:16:56 AM
stray thoughts...

what you may know is only a rough idea, stop not, keep striving diligently. do not be content easily!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on August 12, 2014, 07:10:38 AM
The Story of the wood-cutter
"Once upon a time a wood-cutter went into a forest to chop wood. There suddenly he met a brahmachari. The holy man said to him, 'My good man, go forward.' On returning home the wood-cutter asked himself, 'Why did the brahmachari tell me to go forward?' Some time passed. One day he remembered the brahmachari's words. He said to himself, 'Today I shall go deeper into the forest.' Going deep into the forest, he discovered innumerable sandalwood trees. He was very happy and returned with cart-loads of sandal-wood. He sold them in the market and became very rich.
"A few days later he again remembered the words of the holy man to go forward. He went deeper into the forest and discovered a silver-mine near a river. This was even beyond his dreams. He dug out silver from the mine and sold it in the market. He got so much money that he didn't even know how much he had.
"A few more days passed. One day he thought: 'The brahmachari didn't ask me to stop at the silver-mine; he told me to go forward.' This time he went to the other side of the river and found a gold-mine. Then he exclaimed: 'Ah, just see! This is why he asked me to go forward.'
"Again, a few days afterwards, he went still deeper into the forest and found heaps of diamonds and other precious gems. He took these also and became as rich as the god of wealth himself.

Go forward
"Therefore I say that, whatever you may do, you will find better and better things if only you go forward. You may feel a little ecstasy as the result of japa, but don't conclude from this that you have achieved everything in spiritual life. Work is by no means the goal of life. Go forward, and then you will be able to perform unselfish work. But again I say that it is most difficult to perform unselfish work. Therefore with love and longing in your heart pray to God: 'O God, grant me devotion at Thy Lotus Feet and reduce my worldly duties. Please grant me the boon that the few duties I must do may be done in a detached spirit.' If you go still farther you will realize God.
You will see Him. In time you will converse with Him."

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 12, 2014, 10:09:02 AM
stray thoughts...

Mumukhshutva*  has nothing to do with intelligence!

one may know many things and be a mumukhsu and
one may know not a thing and yet be a mumukshu!

(* intense yearning for liberation/god-realisation)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on August 13, 2014, 06:53:42 AM
Quote
it would do immense good to man, if he were to disbelieve God and put trust on his own self for God does not need our belief on Him to shower His love.

Yes,and likewise, it would also do him immense good if he were to pack off all the gurus,masters and saints  and discover the immensity of the spirit that is his true Nature.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 13, 2014, 10:44:38 AM
(http://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/iconbutton_arunachala_photo_gallery.jpg)

WHY art thou silent! Is thy love a plant
Of such weak fibre that the treacherous air
Of absence withers what was once so fair?
Is there no debt to pay, no boon to grant?
Yet have my thoughts for thee been vigilant--
Bound to thy service with unceasing care,
The mind's least generous wish a mendicant
For nought but what thy happiness could spare.
Speak--though this soft warm heart, once free to hold
A thousand tender pleasures, thine and mine,
Be left more desolate, more dreary cold
Than a forsaken bird's-nest filled with snow
'Mid its own bush of leafless eglantine--
Speak, that my torturing doubts their end may know!


(William Wordsworth)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 25, 2014, 01:39:57 AM
शनैरर्थः शनैः पन्थाः शनैः पर्वतमारुहेत् ।
शनैर्विद्या च धर्मश्च व्यायामश्च शनैः शनैः ॥


shanairarthaH shanaiH panthAH shanaiH parvatamAruhet |
shanairvidyA cha dharmashcha vyAyAmashcha shanaiH shanaiH ||

Slowly slowly gradually, earn your livelyhood (that is sufficient)
Slowly gradually, travel your path, your journey
Slowly gradually, climb the mountain
Slowly gradually, (diligently) acquire knowledge
Slowly gradually, follow the dictum of Dharma (righteousness)
Slowly slowly gradually, exert yourself


--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 02, 2014, 11:53:23 AM
stray thoughts...

Exhibit not thy Vaasana, but thy Nature.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 03, 2014, 09:02:26 AM
यथा तालं विना रागः यथा मानं विना नृपः ।
यथा दानं विना हस्ती तथा ज्ञानं विना यतिः ॥


yathA tAlam vinA rAgaH yathA mAnam vinA nRupaH ।
yathA dAnam vinA hastI tathA jnAnam vinA yatiH ॥

A seer without knowledge is as useless as music without timing,
king without dignity or an elephant without rut.

--

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 04, 2014, 01:25:26 AM
Stray thoughts...

Liberation is only for the bound
Concentration is only for the agitation
Enquiry is only for the non enquiry
Abidance is only for the non abidance
Being is only for the non being
That is only for this

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 04, 2014, 10:30:09 AM
Stray thoughts...

In one and all, there is inherently the shine of Supreme God Head or Absolute Self Realisation, great repository of knowledge, it is too little of significance in the whole scheme! What really matters most is whether:

We have vanquished Anger, the first and foremost.
We have vanquished Ego, the self inflicted right to defend or negate.
We have vanquished Emotions, Attachments and Desires.
We have vanquished the pains of Afflictions.
We have vanquished Greed, Jealousy, Hatred.
We have vanquished Violance in thought, word and deed.
We have vanquished Restraint (a need to self check, indicates the existence of Malaas as above)

All spiritual practices are primarily for the annihilation of the above, and lest for any attainment of salvation as such, which is just a residue!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2014, 04:31:15 AM
Stray thoughts...

Being under the sway of Vaasanaas simply means dreaming while awake!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2014, 04:38:27 AM
Stray thoughts...

Just be ALERT, wherever you are, be it in darkness or in the light.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2014, 04:42:36 AM
Stray thoughts...

Sun is worshipped because it remains even in illusions, dreams, while we are asleep and while we are awake!

Such is the Self or God.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2014, 04:44:29 AM
Stray thoughts...

Mind cannot function without you!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2014, 05:00:51 AM
Stray thoughts...

There is a point or a center bereft of pains and pleasures. Pains and pleasures become known only by that point or center. Know that thoroughly somehow!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2014, 05:13:17 AM
Stray thoughts...

Wilfully reject the companionship with the mind. Remain divorced from it at all times!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on September 05, 2014, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from Sri Nagaraj Ji:

"Being under the sway of Vaasanaas simply means dreaming while awake!"


"Just be ALERT, wherever you are, be it in darkness or in the light."


"Mind cannot function without you!"


"There is a point or a center bereft of pains and pleasures. Pains and pleasures become known only by that point or center. Know that thoroughly somehow!"


"Wilfully reject the companionship with the mind. Remain divorced from it at all times!"



Dear Sri Nagaraj Ji,

I love your beautiful insights!

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil





Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2014, 09:15:38 AM
Dear Sri Anil ji,

Thanks so much, yes they are indeed so resonating from within myself too! I enjoy these as passively as even you have :-) they emerge of their own in the great aMrita Matanam, the great Churning of Mind, that spits out some sparks from within.

Pranams,
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2014, 09:54:33 AM
Stray thoughts..

Dear friends, we often come across from the words of various Guru, thoughts such as this is ONE GREAT DIRECT METHOD, THIS IS ONE INFALLIBLE MEANS, some even have also expressed some ways to be the only true path, some even out a screw to our logic and appear absolutely fanatic as well, to some.

It is obligatory to the endeavour of a sincere aspirant to discern the Real Essence in all of them. To a THIRSTING ASPIRANT, even a dunes stone without any attributes of Godhoot or Guruhood alone is enough to trigger the spark of Absolute Truth! We have had examples, for instance the 24 Guru of the Avadhoota just to quote one.

I raise my heart boldly and express, look beyond the forms and their words of Ramana, Ramakrishna, Sivananda, Shankara, Vivekananda and name them all, there is a MORE GREATER BEING THAN ALL OF THEM,        WITHIN each one, that is the source of all the external glories of all Gods and Gurus. Recognise your own potential, without any identity.

It becomes necessary to go beyond the schools, one has received ones graduation, to really graduate.

Just drop all Gods and Gurus, no matter how emotional we may be with them. Our Guru Bhakti or God Bhakti will not become corrupt. :-)

Spiritual quest is a Science, it is not mere emotional drug, even the person filled with tears of ecstasy is a science.

We need to open up our hands soooo much that we don't have hands at all, only then can we embrace all from all sides!

Humble musings...

--

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2014, 11:10:47 AM
Where The Mind Is Without Fear
Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high
Where knowledge is free
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments
By narrow domestic walls
Where words come out from the depth of truth
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way
Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit
Where the mind is led forward by thee
Into ever-widening thought and action
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.

Rabindranath Tagore
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 06, 2014, 11:38:34 AM
As the supreme Shastra of the integral Yoga is the eternal Veda secret in the heart of every man, so its supreme Guide and Teacher is the inner Guide, the World-Teacher, jagad-guru, secret within us. It is he who destroys our darkness by the resplendent light of his knowledge; that light becomes within us the increasing glory of his own self-revelation. He discloses progressively in us his own nature of freedom, bliss, love, power, immortal being. He sets above us his divine example as our ideal and transforms the lower existence into a reflection of that which it contemplates. By the inpouring of his own influence and presence into us he enables the individual being to attain to identity with the universal and transcendent.

What is his method and his system? He has no method and every method. His system is a natural organisation of the highest processes and movements of which the nature is capable. Applying themselves even to the pettiest details and to the actions the most insignificant in their appearance with as much care and thoroughness as to the greatest, they in the end lift all into the Light and transform all. For in his Yoga there is nothing too small to be used and nothing too great to be attempted. As the servant and disciple of the Master has no business with pride or egoism because all is done for him from above, so also he has no right to despond because of his personal deficiencies or the stumblings of his nature. For the Force that works in him is impersonal - or superpersonal-and infinite.

The full recognition of this inner Guide, Master of the Yoga, lord, light, enjoyer and goal of all sacrifice and effort, is of the utmost importance in the path of integral perfection. It is immaterial whether he is first seen as an impersonal Wisdom, Love and Power behind all things, as an Absolute manifesting in. the relative and attracting it, as one's highest Self and the highest Self of all, as a Divine Person within us and in the world, in one of his - or her - numerous forms and names or as the ideal which the mind conceives. In the end we perceive that he is all and more than all these things together- The mind's door of entry to the conception of him must necessarily vary according to the past evolution and the present nature.

Four Aids,Synthesis of Yoga-Sri Aurobindo
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 06, 2014, 12:07:45 PM
குணம்நாடிக் குற்றமும் நாடி அவற்றுள்
மிகைநாடி மிக்க கொளல் -Verse 504,TirukkuRaL

Seek the Good as well as bad and the exaggeration in them ,and take(after discounting the exaggeration) what is in excess(as truth).

எப்பொருள் யார்யார்வாய்க் கேட்பினும் அப்பொருள்
மெய்ப்பொருள் காண்ப தறிவு-Verse 423,TirukkuRaL

Whatsoever you hear from whosoever-Intelligence it is to Realize the Truth in that.

Ekam Sat viprah Bahuda vadanti-Truth is One,Sages talk (about it)in many ways.


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 06, 2014, 12:09:42 PM
catch the essence and not the words of the Great ones.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 06, 2014, 12:14:10 PM
Christ, Buddha, and Krishna are but waves in the Ocean of Infinite Consciousness that I am!

Swami Vivekananda
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 06, 2014, 12:18:12 PM
Each soul is potentially divine. The goal is to manifest this divinity by controlling nature, external and internal. Do this either by work, or worship, or psychic control, or philosophy - by one, or more, or all of these - and be free. This is the whole of religion. Doctrines, or dogmas, or rituals, or books, or temples, or forms, are but secondary details.

Swami Vivekananda
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: ksksat27 on September 06, 2014, 03:07:17 PM
In my opinion,  let us do sadhana first rather than trying to find the 'spirit of unity' in different teachings.

Maya is very powerful,  time is moving fast.  without wasting the precious time in all this 'Unity' pursuits,  we have to do sincere sadhana and discuss practical doubts more and more.

I could see a sense of complacency,  that we talk about Christ and Krishna as infinitesimal etc.  But what about our own Mind , the ego ahankaaram? 

One should not just feel complacent on intellectual pursuits, the 'all in all unity approach and thereby mix everything up.

let us walk the road in defined paths.  if one path not sufficient, add 2 paths but don't add n paths to your itinerary. 

if we have answers let us clarify others but heart in heart , let us realize that we ourselves are in need of spiritual help.

one should have shraddha, faith and trust that Our Master Sri Ramana has given us only two paths -- self enquiry and self surrender.  The direct path of Self enquiry is the message of our Master .

Let us not worry about progressive elaboration or collaboration. 

Why I am saying all this is,  practical difficulties in sadhana are numerous in number.  so one should always do sadhana, sadhana and discuss them with fellow devotees.  bell is alarming.

let us chant arunachala shiva to the Heart's content before our brain becomes insane in its final moments.

arunachalam.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2014, 07:49:36 PM
In my opinion,  let us do sadhana first rather than trying to find the 'spirit of unity' in different teachings

Krishnan, you do any sadhana only to find the 'spirit of unity' when you say you are seeing unity, then you see things differently, and you are imposing onto yourself a spirit of some unity just because Self is in all, it is not so, like this!

This is not some unity in diversity, but the truth is, there is no diversity at all, but only Self! Variations and differences are mind created! If somebody sees difference is paths, Gods, religions, then there is an error in understanding!

The Vedic revelation do not say, there is only one God, but it says EVERYTHING IS GOD. It does not even say "though there are differences, the underlying principle is Same, of God, or Self" but it proclaims with authority - EVERYTHING IS BRAHMAN (sarvam Khalu idam Brahma)

There is no Unity in Self, Everything is only Self!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 06, 2014, 10:59:45 PM
Stray thoughts...

Where knowledge divides, love unites!
Where love divides, knowledge unites!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2014, 06:55:12 PM
?When you have come to the edge Of all light that you know And are about to drop off into the darkness Of the unknown, Faith is knowing One of two things will happen: There will be something solid to stand on or You will be taught to fly?
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 07, 2014, 07:17:05 PM
A bird sat absent-mindedly on the mast of a ship anchored in the Ganges. Slowly the ship sailed out into the ocean. When the bird came to its senses, it could find no shore in any direction. It flew toward the north hoping to reach land; it went very far and grew very tired but could find no shore. What could it do? It returned to the ship and sat on the mast. After a long while the bird flew away again, this time toward the east. It couldn't find land in that direction either; everywhere it saw nothing but limitless ocean. Very tired, it again returned to the ship and sat on the mast. After resting a long while, the bird went toward the south and toward the west. When it found no sign of land in any direction, it came back and settled down on the mast. It did not leave the mast again, but sat there without making any further effort. It no longer felt restless or worried. Because it was free from worry, it made no further effort.

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2014, 08:12:09 PM
Stray thoughts...

This law seems so very true:

So long an object is pursued diligently, it eludes!
After such sincere diligence, the moment, it is given up,
for no more want of it, it is found to be chasing back,
Until it is delivered on hand!

Truth is like that too!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: ksksat27 on September 07, 2014, 09:18:12 PM
In my opinion,  let us do sadhana first rather than trying to find the 'spirit of unity' in different teachings

Krishnan, you do any sadhana only to find the 'spirit of unity' when you say you are seeing unity, then you see things differently, and you are imposing onto yourself a spirit of some unity just because Self is in all, it is not so, like this!

This is not some unity in diversity, but the truth is, there is no diversity at all, but only Self! Variations and differences are mind created! If somebody sees difference is paths, Gods, religions, then there is an error in understanding!

The Vedic revelation do not say, there is only one God, but it says EVERYTHING IS GOD. It does not even say "though there are differences, the underlying principle is Same, of God, or Self" but it proclaims with authority - EVERYTHING IS BRAHMAN (sarvam Khalu idam Brahma)

There is no Unity in Self, Everything is only Self!

--

Dear Nagaraj,

Firstly, reading your words, it is sometimes very tough to put forth my points  :)

As part of sadhana ,  the spirit of unity, that is trying to have the Advaita Drishti which Annamalai Swami calls Saman Bhava is very vaid, infact the whole of Ribhu Githa propagates the same.

Off late,  I think many posts in this forum simply drive around some intellectual secular attitude towards various saints and their teachings.  Artificially we try to infer some unity and that too in the intellectual level to convey something, to convince something to the world.  With this attitude,  spiritualism will be reduced to stage speech,  worldy unity, poetical beauty etc. (not anybody in particular just about most of us)

The real essence is full self realization.  To attain it,  first and foremost, one should not be just satisfied with words.  hard work and sadhana and pure devotion is required. without that child like belief,  in the name of formlessness etc.  one should not look down or disbelieve the real existence of different deities like Shiva, Vishnu etc.

it is not emotional devotion,  there is no such thing.  all devotion , all cries (even wordly ) are holy only.

nowadays I am seeing very complacent attitude, quoting from different books,  just getting convinced on secular nature etc.
actually your musing post just triggered all that is going on in my mind.  does not mean,  you wrote in the above vein.

and again, if my post confuses or disturbs other's minds,  very sorry about it. that is not the objective.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2014, 09:56:03 PM
Very well, Krishnan, you have just expressed your views, very much fair in your own journey. Ok, now, the world is like that, the posts in forum may be headed to some secular jargons and stuffs that may be artificial. Some expressions may be fake, some dry, some not at all resonating, few may expressions may be genuine, few expressions may be resonating.

Now,

What are you planning to do about it? The forum is not going to change nor the persons nor the various opinions. Buddha once said

 "No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path."

Nobody in the forum is going to help you, really, but yourself, and the grace of god-guru of-course

Do whatever is best for yourself, do it fervently, reverentially, cry to your god, your guru, get that feeling you aspire. Be the aspiration you want to be. Somehow attain what has to be attained!

--

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 07, 2014, 10:11:41 PM
The world is a mirror in which we see ouselves.As one is,so one sees the world.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 08, 2014, 06:12:33 AM
I am in no hurry for i do not have a destination.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: ksksat27 on September 08, 2014, 06:28:24 PM
Very well, Krishnan, you have just expressed your views, very much fair in your own journey. Ok, now, the world is like that, the posts in forum may be headed to some secular jargons and stuffs that may be artificial. Some expressions may be fake, some dry, some not at all resonating, few may expressions may be genuine, few expressions may be resonating.

Now,

What are you planning to do about it? The forum is not going to change nor the persons nor the various opinions. Buddha once said

 "No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path."

Nobody in the forum is going to help you, really, but yourself, and the grace of god-guru of-course

Do whatever is best for yourself, do it fervently, reverentially, cry to your god, your guru, get that feeling you aspire. Be the aspiration you want to be. Somehow attain what has to be attained!

--

Excellent G Nagaraj.   :)   I missed all your golden words for a long time  :), now I am going to kindle you every week to get a full length re-charge for me  :)  :).

Actually as per our Bhagavan's Eka Jiva tattva,  there are really no 'others'.  I am just projecting myself into all of you but involuntarily.  It is automatic action.

May be my message is one part of the shruthi and other message is another part.  they keep on tuning,  that is the beauty of creation.  Maya wants all this.

One need not worry about forum or the members.  But may be my reminders may strike a chord with someone who needed that type of advise that time.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: ksksat27 on September 08, 2014, 06:54:00 PM
I am in no hurry for i do not have a destination.



Dear Ravi sir,

I would take the liberty to comment on this quite uncalled for & quite unsolicited for.  Please forgive me.

Your phrase is of very good Significance.   

The basic roadblock for the spiritual pursuit is broadly of two types according to me:  the third type is not bothered, they are totally wordly & we can ignore them.

I am talking about those who do some sadhana (any type of sadhana),  dont ask me what is sadhana again.

one type is full of passion, bad desires, lust, anger, greed and what not. they come to spiritualism with tons of impurities and so get stuck in the mud for a long time.  all their worship go in vain for a long time until grace itself decides to end all this to them considering their trying & tiring efforts.
Many like me fall in this type.  this is a very worst case and anyway they know they are stuck.  that is not an excuse,  they get good beatings and finally if Grace decides they will get realization.  These people to get themselves realized is very very very difficult, If at all they realize somehow,  it will blow massively and it will benefit huge masses of people but first of all , they getting realized is very tough.


The next type is very strange, interesting.  I would call it material-satvic guna saturation. these people generally come with bags of punyas,  have less lust, less greed, less anger and very good in helping tendency and all.  Ofcourse due to their high learning, good will and other good qualities, they come to spiritual sadhana. 
With this type, there is a sense of very subtle complacency,  a strange sense of pride (it is not pride exactly,  it is not arrogancy either,  it is a strange feeling).   So what happens is the real stimulus to achieve full realization will be lacking to this type.

Simply because of the tonnes and tonnes of punyas carried forward, & their current good actions,  they always live in fairly complacent life situations (physical ,mental etc.)
It is not pin-pointing one person,  a full set of people from different cultures and background will fit here.  They are very soft, they are very loving, they are good in devotion but there comes the problem,  they are simply submerged in the nectar of this sattvic-saturation.  It is very tempting,  they give light to others, they find goodness everywhere, a sense of peace pervades their life.

So what else to acquire for? their enjoyments are not mean, they are noble enjoyments, they don't misuse their well-being.  so what else will give them stimulus to come out of this & attain realization?

Sir -- let me be frank,  I dont heart in heart mean to glorify anybody or hurt anybody.

this is my genuine observation after meeting many 'noble' people.  Noble not sarcastically, really noble but something keeps them from moving up.


Regards,
Krishna
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 08, 2014, 08:58:22 PM
Live in the world like a cast-off leaf in a gale. Such a leaf is sometimes blown inside a house and sometimes to a rubbish heap. The leaf goes wherever the wind blows-sometimes to a good place and sometimes to a bad. Now God has put you in the world. That is good. Stay here. Again, when He lifts you from here and puts you in a better place, that will be time enough to think about what to do then.
God has put you in the world. What can you do about it? Resign everything to Him. Surrender yourself at His feet. Then there will be no more confusion. Then you will realize
that it is God who does everything. All depends on 'the will of Rama'.


The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 09, 2014, 06:20:25 AM
seeking to know oneself is absurd.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 09, 2014, 11:04:34 AM
Stray thoughts...

It is discerned that a quiet, serene and solitude environment is most ideal to contemplate, grasp and discern the Truth, thereafter, a battleground is most ideal for the establishment of steadfastness in absolute abidance of Truth.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 09, 2014, 09:23:27 PM
Stray thought...

the expression of clarity is serenity.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 10, 2014, 12:18:51 AM
Stray thoughts...

Mind is shadow of the Self. It shows outwardly, and does not inwardly!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on September 10, 2014, 08:23:57 AM
Not to be hurt is true self-enquiry.Not to carry hurts is true self enquiry.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 10, 2014, 10:10:34 AM
Stray thoughts...

Truth* is independent of consequence, Truth is the Source!



*Wisdom, Discernment, Revelation, Understanding, reasoning, etc.,

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 10, 2014, 04:37:05 PM
Stray thoughts...

See without names and forms! what remains? just the "rasaa" or the "essence" !

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 10, 2014, 04:48:00 PM
Stray thoughts...

Be utterly sharp and steadfast in regarding whole world as mere illusion,
at the same time, be utterly tender in showering compassionate empathy
of thorough understanding of the same illusion!

just keep moving, Don't look back, don't carry emotions and sweet memories,
just carry the weightless essence alone.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 12, 2014, 09:39:21 AM
Stray thoughts...

what is perceived different is only the mind.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 12, 2014, 09:53:18 AM
Stray thoughts...

What is perceived is just bangle, but what is, is just Gold*!



(*Gold is also just a perceived term)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 12, 2014, 07:06:12 PM
Stray thoughts...

Break open, emerge from your cocoon and breathe in the fresh air of freedom.

Break Free!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 12, 2014, 11:43:58 PM
Stray thoughts...

Why differentiate.....? anything, at all?
Even the wisdom that differentiates
ought to be shunned*!

Differentiation is the biggest barricade
towards the Truth.



*or enquired upon or surrendered.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 13, 2014, 12:44:22 AM
Stray thoughts...

How many worlds are we all living at this very moment?

There is one world with family
There is one world with spouse, mother father, parents, children each child, friends, each friends, etc., and each close one separately
There is one world at work and each world with colleagues
There is one world in between while we travel from one place to another
There are many worlds we fantasise and enjoy and seek pleasures
There is another world where we derive peace
There is another world of spirituality
There is another world of our Guru and his life world
There is this forum world
There is our own world of various worlds of sadhanas - self enquiry, Bhakti, yoga, bhajana etc...
List can go on... Endlessly

Which one can be regarded as real? And this also emanates in one such world only!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 13, 2014, 12:03:33 PM
Stray thoughts...

The greatest test of discipline is
being true to oneself!
If this is passed everything passes,
if this fails everything else fails!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 13, 2014, 03:09:33 PM
Tis, but I cannot name it, 'tis the sense
Of majesty, and beauty, and repose,
A blended holiness of earth and sky,
Something that makes this individual spot,
This small abiding-place of many men,
A termination, and a last retreat,
A centre, come from whereso'er you will,
A whole without dependence or defect,
Made for itself, and happy in itself,
Perfect contentment, Unity entire.

~ William Wordsworth
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 13, 2014, 03:12:15 PM
MUST WATCH:

Consciousness - an animation of Spirit

http://youtu.be/hwyuQbIb0Xs (http://youtu.be/hwyuQbIb0Xs)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 14, 2014, 05:49:42 PM
Stray thoughts...

whether you prefer to catch bus or train or airplane or walk,
make sure you reach the destination. that is all that matters!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 16, 2014, 08:48:57 PM
Stray thoughts...

being is the nature of Self, it is
not attained by imitation (by effort)
you can't 'Be' that, you are 'That'
so resounds the shruti-voice from within!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 18, 2014, 10:54:36 AM
Stray thoughts...

Dear friends, the purpose of the practice of Self Enquiry is to realise that one is not the gross body. nothing more and nothing less! Sri Bhagavan's quote from Talks 454 The object of enquiry is to find the true nature of the Self as Awareness. Let one practise enquiry so long as separateness is perceived.

Generally, in my understanding, i feel, many, even after having realised the simple fact that one is not the gross body(मनोबुद्ध्यहङ्कार चित्तानि नाहं etc..) continue to blindly pursue the exercise. Sri Bhagavan expressed in Talks 454 There is confusion between the means and the end (i.e., sadhana and sadhya). Who is the enquirer? The aspirant and not the siddha. Enquiry signifies that the enquirer considers himself separate from enquiry. So long as this duality lasts the enquiry must be continued, i.e., until the individuality disappears and the Self is realised to be only the eternal Be-ing (including enquiry and enquirer). The Truth is that Self is constant and unintermittent Awareness. The object of enquiry is to find the true nature of the Self as Awareness. Let one practise enquiry so long as separateness is perceived. If once realisation arises there is no further need for enquiry. The question will also not arise. Can awareness ever think of questioning who is aware? Awareness remains pure and simple. The enquirer is aware of his own individuality. Enquiry does not stand in the way of his individual awareness; nor does external work interfere with such awareness. If work, seemingly external, does not obstruct the individual awareness, will the work, realised to be not separate from the Self, obstruct the uninterrupted Awareness of the Self, which is One without a second and which is not an individual separate from work

Thereafter realising this fact, that one is not the body, mind, intellect, ego, the elements, prana, and so on, one has to further delve into the nature of the Self, only then would the absolute clarity result. Who am I enquiry as taught by Bhagavan itself takes us to this level, however, one has to be open minded here to acquire knowledge beyond the very method of Self Enquiry.

Having said this, the very fact of realising that one is NOT THE GROSS BODY is the ultimate realisation, there is nothing more to dig deeper. But since the mind would not rest, at the Truth being just so simple, wants to search further, seek something, experience some bliss and experience some sense of attainment that is all purely imaginative. This would result in endless cycle of sadhana, be it what ever Sadhana one pursues, even Self Enquiry.

One has to 'know' the knowledge, Sri Bhagavan Himself, expressed When I later in Tiruvannamalai listened, how the "Ribhu Gita" and such sacred texts were read, I caught these things and discovered that these books named and analysed, what I before involuntarily felt, without being able to appoint or analyse. In the language of these books I could denote the state in which I found myself after my awakening as "cleaned understanding" (shuddham manas) or "Insight" (Vijnāna): as 'the intuition of the Enlightened

Therefore, if anyone pursues the Sadhana of Self Enquiry very sincerely, would easily realise the Truth in just some time, may be even lesser than the time taken by Sri Bhagavan Himself, for a sharp intellect with sraddha and devotion, it also may take much longer for some, each depending on ones own pakva - a result of ones past.

Thereafter, IF THE HUNGER STILL CONTINUES, Self Enquiry may alone may not of real Help, one has to acquaint with oneself, one has to know oneself, what is ones own nature, what am I, and so on, and these reflections are to be acquired through the direct words of ones own Guru and Guru guides one towards scriptures, the Vedas, Upanishads, the words of Guru, the works such as Vaasishta, Ribhu Gita, Ashtaavakra Gita. Sri Bhagavan recommended several works, in tamil as well like Kaivalya Navaeetam, Thayumanavar and so on. Therefore, it is clear, Sri Bhagavan guided all apirants to acquire knowledge from all corners. He encouraged aspirants to read Srimad Bhagavatam, Gita, Ribhu Gita, Yoga Vasishta. There was a regular discussion about the essence of various Upanishadic revelation. It is for this acquaintance for which Sri Bhagavan recommended all aspirants to pursue Self Enquiry.

Sri Muruganar, who has written such mammoth tamil verses, on the exposition of Sri Bhagavan and the revelations of the same as reflected from various other tamil scriptures, especially of those of Manickavachakar. He fell dead the very day he read about Bhagavan's Atma Vichara, a small book given to him by his father in law, Dandapani swami. His Self Enquiry was finished. He only spent the rest of his life only is Tatva Samyoga, in grasping the Nature of Self as his reflection, which are his expositions, the result of His reflections. He encouraged aspirants to read works such as periya Puranam that used to bring tears in his beautiful eyes as well.

Even after realising oneself as beyond the Gross body as a result of intense Self Enquiry, to continue to enquiring who am I who am I, would lead nowhere, as the the nature of that Self is Endless, it is limitless, therefore, it is prudent to assist oneself, ALONG WITH Self Enquiry, the various ambrosial nectarine expressions of Upanishads and other such works. This would put an end to the turbulent mind that continues to throb even after realising that truth that it is beyond the gross body.

Self Enquiry, begins with Who am I, and once it is realised that one is beyond the gross body, the Self Enquiry thereafter becomes "Self" Enquiry, what is it, what is its nature, which is gained by the Uchchishtams leftovers of the expressions of various saints in various works and Upanishads.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 19, 2014, 12:33:56 PM
(just shifting the same article here)

Dear Friends, (addressed in general to one and all)

i would like to lay some thoughts. I believe, we should not over emphasize certain observations by Sri Bhagavan or for that matter some recorded expressions made by them such as all other practices are auxiliary, and only Self Enquiry alone leads to the Truth, and that certain practices are for beginners and self enquiry is for advanced seekers and so on. We need to understand the context in which they are expressed by the Sage and also the time in which it was said to that particular sadhaka. We should be clear that Sri Bhagavan never gave any teaching en-mass, he was very particular about it.

There is no doubt Self Enquiry in itself is the goal and the end, but the sadhaka need not glorify the means by unglorifying the other paths as auxiliary paths and terming them as beginner or lesser paths, this is very unbecomming on the part of an aspirant, for this is a dangerous precedent, and it is not in line with Dharma.

Sadhakas should never get obsessed with means but focus on Sadhana alone, otherwise, it becomes like what happened with Christ, who was made the only Direct means for Salvation, and the popular understanding is that those that have been born before Christ and those that have been born after Christ who don't believe in Christ have no salvation.

Self Enquiry is Direct path, there is no denying, but over emphasizing to an extent of pursuing thoughts in the line that other practices are indirect and they are eventually only lead to Self Enquiry and why not directly begin Self Enquiry, such things are best left for the fruit to ripe by itself. Let us mind the purpose for which we are here, we are not here to preach and talk about efficacies and inefficacies.

I believe we are not any savior or champions of propagating Self Enquiry, Sri Bhagavan Himself did that silently. It is better we just focus on our Sadhana over, emphasizing the efficacy of Self Enquiry over other paths. What Sri Bhagavan had to convey has expressed Himself in the small book Self Enquiry. Our duty is to only practice Sadhana and not to engage in its propagation. That is not our job and each sadhaka may pick himself what he needs, by the grace of Sri Bhagavan

Does it mean that all others who are not inclined with Sri Bhagavan are lost in some spiritual maze? have there not been realized souls before Sri Bhagavan and have there not been there other Guru's who have been guiding lights? All paths are equal in the eyes of Self. All paths lead to the Sun of Truth.

We can talk about Self Enquiry, we can write lots about Self Enquiry, glorify the path, talk about its greatness, but wisdom calls that certain expressions of Sri Bhagavan ought not to be misrepresented and what Sri Bhagavan said or what Sri Annamalai Swami said are case specific, and i firmly believe, in a common platform, Sri Bhagavan would not appreciate expressing thoughts such as Self Enquiry is Direct and that other paths are are only for beginners, or that if one pursues Self Enquiry one need not bother about waking up late in the morning etc.. no such disciplines are necessary i mean we don't preach these out in the open, even if they are expressed by Sri Bhagavan. It is doing gross injustice to Sri Bhagavan!

Lord Krishna says, यज्ञानां जपयज्ञोऽस्मि among acts of worship I am the worship called Japa. There are plenty of expression to quote counter, if need be, but what is important is to pick up the essence.

All spiritual practices are an end to itself, or we can say all spiritual practices lead by themselves its own way of Self Enquiry. It is not in Rhythm to thunder exclusivity to Sri Bhagavan. Please do not make him a Jesus Christ. I would like to say,

We Bhagavan devotees are not in some great heaven compared to so many other milions of Sadhakas of various other paths across the world of various faiths.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 20, 2014, 10:00:00 AM
(http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/photos/restored_photos/full/soh_13.jpg)

The four sons, of brahmA, sanaka, sanandana, sanAtana, sanat kumAra did austere tapas and analysis, but they were unclear of the Supreme Truth. They finally decided to come to Lord Shiva to get the knowledge of the Truth. The Lord sat under the banyan tree, and the four sages also sat down around Him. Lord stayed in the yOga posture without saying a single word. The four sages got all their doubts cleared just by that posture. The form in which God appeared as a Supreme Guide is the form of wisdom dakshiNAmUrti.

This explains that the Truth cannot be explained in words and must be experienced. Including the great chinmudra posture, the posture of shrI dhakshiNA mUrti, who is the teacher of all the teachers. As thirumUlar says, the posture of the guru is a thing to be thought about always. That is the clarity ! (theLivu guruvuru chin^dhiththal thAnE)


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 21, 2014, 09:04:56 PM
Stray thoughts...

do not resist emotions in the name of spiritual quest.
Recognise that emotions do not bind you.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 21, 2014, 09:16:19 PM
Stray thoughts...

Friends, just do not restrict where the life is taking you, experience everything life has to offer, we have heard aplenty to resist all external perceptions and remain within, but on the contrary, i have found that there is more spirituality in the so called Non-Spirituality and less spirituality in Spirituality itself (yes it is all how we see, but) Do not operate from cliches. Just to say some example, watch good films, watch good talents around you, look at the world how it operates, do not fear Rajas, do not resist the Rajas around you, Life is Beautiful. Spirituality is broadening and never narrowing.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 21, 2014, 09:34:37 PM
Stray thoughts...

Everything is the expression of the Supreme Atman!
Look at how many different ways the Brahman is expressing itself,
In how many beautiful ways, what a wonder it is,
Simply look without being bound by any paradigms.
It is You! you are expressing yourself in all of them!
Do not resist yourself, for you would deny your nature!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 21, 2014, 09:40:02 PM
Stray thoughts...

Just be Free! what stops us from being free?
And this is not sheer indulgence!
The quest is much more beautiful and meaningful, here
than the narrow walls we have raised!

Be free, unconditionally, Trust in yourself, You will not get corrupt!

We are naturally Free, what stops us, but ourselves?

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 21, 2014, 09:47:14 PM
Stray thoughts...

Do not deny yourself, your good time!
Do not get lost in your quest,
Open up your horizons,
For it is limitless, Blemishless,
Pristine & Pure.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 21, 2014, 09:56:09 PM
Stray thoughts...

The more you go inwards, smaller and smaller, contraction to the point, the source-less source
the more you go outwards, larger and larger, expansion, to the pointless, the limitless end.



अणोरणीयान् महतो महीयान् आत्मा गुहायां निहितोऽस्य जन्तोः ।
The infinite Self more minute than the minutest and greater than the greatest and is the heart of the beings.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 24, 2014, 09:54:33 PM
An old Zen saying:

?In matters of religion, most persons prefer chewing the menu to actually eating the food!?

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 25, 2014, 02:20:23 PM
Stray thought...

There is no attainment,
There is only dea-ttainment.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 25, 2014, 09:08:00 PM
Though he has no form
my eyes saw him,

his glory is fire in my mind
that knows

his secret inner form
invented by the soul.

What is
beyond the mind

has no boundary.
In it our senses end.

Mukta says: Words cannot hold him
yet in him all words are.

~ Muktabai, Sri Jnaneshwar's sister
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 25, 2014, 09:33:07 PM
I Am All

I am the blue firmament and the black cloud,
I am the waterfall and the sound thereof,
I am the graven image and the stone by the wayside,
I am the rose and the falling petals thereof,
I am the flower of the field and the sacred lotus,
I am the sanctified waters and the still pool,
I am the tree that towereth among the mountains
And the blade of grass in the peaceful lane,
I am the tender spring leaf and the evergreen foliage.

I am the barbarian and the sage,
I am the impious and the pious,
I am the ungodly and the godly,
I am the harlot and the virgin,
I am the liberated and the man of time,
I am the the indestructible and the destructible,
I am the renunciation and the proud possessor.
I am all
few know me.

I am neither This nor That,
I am neither detached nor attached,
I am neither heaven nor hell -- few know me --
I am neither philosophies nor creeds,
I am neither the Guru nor the disciple.
O friend,
I contain all.

I am clear as the mountain stream,
Simple as the new spring leaf.

Happy are they
That meet with me.

~ J Krishnamurti
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on January 12, 2015, 10:50:48 AM
stray thoughts...

know your problems well before seeking solutions.

......there may not even be any problem, after all !

-.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 16, 2015, 07:12:40 PM
stray thoughts...


you get a response exactly from the same centre you express yourself from.

The expression of Body Mind is Karma and it results in Disturbance (Dualities)
The expression of Pure Mind is Wisdom and it results in Harmony (Recognition, Resonation)
The expression of Supreme Self is just Presence and it results in Peace (Abidance)

We may express the Supreme Truth from any of the centres as above.

We may express "Tatvamasi" from the Body Mind and it results in distrubance.
We may express "Tatvamasi" from the Pure and it results in Resonation, Recognition.
We may express "Tatvamasi" from the Supreme Self, by sheer Presence and it results in Peace.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 18, 2015, 10:51:17 AM
கற்றது கைமண் அளவு, கல்லாதது உலகளவு

What is learnt is a handful of sand,
while what is unknown is the size of the world.

(Avvaiyaar)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 21, 2015, 08:49:57 PM
Musing...

Words are energy. Words are vibrations. Sounds carry the energies. Sometimes the power of words could have devastating effect. It is no wonder Tiruvalluvar sang this truth thousands of year back:

?Theeyinal Sutta Pun Ullarum Aradhe Naavinal Sutta Vadu? (Even the wound that has been caused by fire will heal within, not the scar that has been caused by a harsh tongue)."

Loud contemplation on behalf of everybody. Let's keep aside the taming of the Ego, but nobody need put up with words that cause damaging effect on ones physical, mental bodies.

It would be taking the truth to madness if we were to then say to ourselves that no matter what bad energies you may face, You as the Soul are not affected. Yes this is truth, but one need'nt take it thus far. One need not become such a hero in order to discern the truth.

There is no bigger weapon than hurling the deep anger through words outside. What goes out eventually comes back.

Avoid all that might trigger such energies being hurled upon you and you inturn upon others. Do whatever it might take to achieve thus end - Peace. Peace for oneself, over anything else.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 02, 2016, 04:03:09 PM
Vidura had put several questions to Maitreya, but even by the time he received answers for a few of them he developed unswerving and one-pointed devotion to the Lord. Having thus achieved the end of all human endeavours, he was not interested any more in answers to his other questions.

~ (Sage Suta about Vidura, Srimad Bhagawatam)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 05, 2016, 05:38:54 PM
"It is not truth that makes man great;
but man that makes truth great."

~ Confucius
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 07, 2016, 10:06:43 AM
Stray thoughts...

As a human being, one may live as much or slighltly more than a hundred years, but wonder of wonders, in ones mind, one lives countless numbers of years and experience  innumerable births and deaths!

In one minute of a general space and time, one can experience thousands of minutes of experiences!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 07, 2016, 10:48:30 AM
Stray thoughts...

'I' exists just as:

As a ring in gold
As a mirage in desert
As a wave in sea
As time in clock
As forms in mind
As colour in sky
As meanings in words
As sorrow & happiness in peace
As sound in silence
As you in Him
As ignorance in knowledge
As knowledge in that
As that in That

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 07, 2016, 02:21:44 PM
Stray thoughts...

Inorder to abide as Self, abidance has to cease.
Where abidance ceases, abidance shines!

The need to abide has to end to result in
the end of the abider for the real abidance!

So long there is still a need for abidance,
so long you will continue to remain!
Only where this need for abidance ceases,
only there you cease and abidance results!

Abidance is Self, Self is abidance.
There is no self to abide, But only the very Self!

As Bhagawan said, to abide as Self is to be the Self.
We can't 'be' the Self as we are the Self!

So long there is Self to abide, you are apart from it,
Where the self to abide is no longer apart from you,
only there you truly abide!

The subtle essence gets lost in words, so we ought to
look beyond words to discover and know the truth.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 09, 2016, 08:04:55 AM
Stray thoughts...

"Investigating where from the 'I' emerges is like investigating
where from the child of a barren woman has emerged."

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 10, 2016, 06:49:46 PM
Devotee: ?If it is said that Ananda is the Self itself, then who is it that experiences it??

Bhagavan: ?That is the point. So long as there is one who experiences, it shall have to be stated that Ananda is the Self itself. When there is no one to experience, where is the question of a form for Ananda? It is only that which ?IS? remains. That IS is ?Ananda? That is the Self. So long as the feeling that the Self is different from oneself there will be one who enquires and experiences, but when one realises the Self there will be no one to experience. Who is there to ask? What is there to say? In common parlance, however, we shall have to say that Bliss is the Self or is our Real Nature (Swarupa)?.

Devotee: ?That is all right, Swami. But, however much we try, this mind does not get under control and envelopes the Swarupa so that it is not perceptible to us. What is to be done??

Bhagavan with a smile placed his little finger over his eye and said, ?Look. This little finger covers the eye and prevents the whole world from being seen. In the same way this small mind covers the whole universe and prevents the Brahman from being seen. See how powerful it is!?

~ Letters
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 10, 2016, 10:22:31 PM
Stray thoughts...

You can pound the wheat only till it gets finely powdered. If we continue to pound, still further, the wheat continues to remains the same, it cannot become more finer, than what is.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 12, 2016, 03:45:24 PM
Realize the Truth, feel that, live that, and when you feel it in its full intensity, nothing, nothing will move you. Let millions of suns be hurled into annihilation, let an infinite number of moons be melted into nothingness, a man of realization, a man of light stands immovable like a rock. What harm can come to him? What is there that can bring suffering to him?

~ Swami Rama Tirtha
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 12, 2016, 04:59:07 PM
Today is Vasant Panchami, is also the Aradhana day of Sri Bharati Krishna Tirtha Swamiji, who has visited Bhagawan, the details are available in Letters.

During his last days he was admitted to hospital in Bombay and he was himself an Ayurvedic expert and he diagnosed himself even before the doctor could check and provide details. One of his disciple, admired, adored him so much and that he asked him if there was anything that Swamiji did not know! Swamiji asked him what was Goddess Saraswati holding in her hands, the disciple replied she holds some palm leaves! What do they mean, asked Swamiji! It represents the Vedas or knowledge. Is that all? Asked Swamiji. The disciple was unable to ponder further and requested Swamiji to enlighten. Swamiji said The palm leaves in Her hands not only represents knowledge but it means the Goddess of knowledge is still learning!

Swamiji was great soul, humble to the core, very learned, he considered Bhagawan also as his Guru.

(https://sribharatikrishnatirtha.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/copy-of-shankaracharya-and-dm-dak.jpg)

Swamiji was also present on the day Sri Chakra puja was first performed and guided the performance in accordance with the Shastras.

Humble pranams to the great Soul.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 13, 2016, 05:05:59 AM
The  Law  is  that - a  man  should  be  at  rest,  at  peace, undisturbed,  and  the  body  should  always  be  in motion;  the  mind  to  be  subjected  to  the  Laws  of Statics  and  the  body  subjected  to  the  Laws  of Dynamics;  the  body  at  work  and  the  internal  self always  at  rest.  That  is  the  law.  Be  free.  Let  things  lie as truly  but  as  softly  as  the  landscape  lies  on  the  eyes.  The landscape  lies  on  the  eyes  truly,  fully,  wholly,  but  how softly.  It  does  not  burden  the  eyes.  All  the  landscape lies on  the  eyes,  but  the  eyes  are  free,  not burdened. Just  so  let  your  position  be  in  your  household matters,  in  your  family  or  worldly  life.  You  may  see all  these  phenomena  and  be  unentangled,  free;  and this  freedom  may  be  attained  only  through knowledge  of  the  true  Self,  through  realization  of the  perfect  Truth,  called  the  Vedanta.  Realize  the true  Divinity,  and  all  the  stars  and  planets  will  do your bidding.

~ Swami Rama Tirtha
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 14, 2016, 09:26:47 AM
A  cultured  lady,  daughter  of  a  well-known  solicitor  of  Madras  asked:

What  should  one  do  in  order  to  remain  free  from  thoughts  as  advised by you? Is it only the enquiry ?Who am I??

M.:  Only to remain still. Do it and see.

D.:  It is impossible.

M.:  Exactly.  For  the  same  reason  the  enquiry  ?Who  am  I??  is  advised.

D.:  Raising the question, no response comes from within.

M.:  What kind of response do you expect? Are you not there? What more?

D.:  Thoughts rise up more and more.

M.:  Then and there raise the same question, ?Who am I??

~ Talks
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 14, 2016, 09:46:28 AM
An inspiring talk by Swami Rama Tirtha.

At  one  time  God  had  a  rival  Satan,  and  God  had some  angels  and  servants  to  limit  His  being.  He created  the  world  in  seven  days.  When  was  it?  It was  when  Moses  wrote  his  Books.  You  know several  thousand  years  have  passed  since  the  days of  Moses.  The  world  has  undergone  a  revolution. What  kind  of  God  is  He  Who  does  not  grow? Everything  must  grow  and  evolve.  By  this  time your  God  should  have  no  rival  like  Satan  beside Him.  There  should  be  nothing  else  to  limit  His being.  He  should  be  above  the  profession  of  an architect,  world-builder  or  maker.  It  is  high  time for  the  whole  world  to  take  up  Vedanta.  It  is  high time  for  the  whole  world  to  dare  to  take  up  and grasp  this  hissing  serpent  of  Truth.  Absolute  Truth comes  to  you  and  tells  you  that  you  are  God;  that God  is  not  separate  from  you;  that  God  is  not  in this  heaven  or  that  hell,  but  in  your  own  Self.  Here in  the  realization  of  this  idea  you  have  absolute freedom.

Why  depress  your  brains  through  fears  and  why raise  up  your  energies  in  supplications?  Represent your  inner  nature;  crush  not  the  truth,  come  out boldly;  cry  fearlessly  at  the  top  of  your  voice  ―I  am God, I am God. That is your birthright.

Ordinary  people  are  in  the  same  state  of  mind  in which  Moses  was  when  he  heard  the  voice.  Moses was  in  a  state  of  slavery,  and  when  he  saw  the serpent  he  trembled.  So  it  is  with  the  people  when they  hear  this  sound  ―I  am,  this  pure  knowledge, the  pure  truth  OM.  When  they  hear  this,  they tremble  and  hesitate,  they  dare  not  catch  hold  of  it. Words  like  the  following  sound  like  a  hissing serpent  to  the  people:  Ye  are  Divinity  Itself,  the Holy  of  holies;  the  World  is  No  World;  You  are  the All  in  All,  the  Supreme  Power,  the  Power  which  no words  can  describe,  no  body  or  mind,  ye  are  the pure ―I am that you are.

Throw  aside  this  little  yellow,  red,  or  black  piece  of paper  from  beside  the  crystal,  wake  up  in  your reality  and  realize  ―I  am  He, ―I  am  the  All  in All. People  want  to  shun  it.  The fear  the  serpent. O!  do  catch  hold  of  the  snake,  and  then,  O  wonder of  wonders,  this  snake  will  become  the  staff  of royalty  in  your  hands.  The  hissing  serpent  will feed  you  when  you  are  hungry,  will  quench  your thirst  when  you  are  thirsty,  will  sweep  off  all difficulties and sorrows from your way.

When  in  the  woods,  Moses  touched  a  rock  with this  staff,  and  bubbling,  sparkling  water  came  out from  the  rock.  When  the  Israelites  were  fleeing  for safety,  they  had  to  cross  the  lied  Sea.  There  this terrible  sea  stood  before  them  as  a  gaping  grave  to devour  them.  Moses  touched  the  lied  Sea  with  this staff  and  the  waters  spilt  in  twain,  dry  land appeared and the Israelites passed over it.

This  apparent  hissing  snake,  this  Truth,  appears  to be  awful,  but  you  hire  only  to  dare  to  pick  it  up and  hold  it  fast.  To  your  wonder  you  will  find yourself  the  Monarch  of  the  Universe,  the  Master of  the  elements,  the Ruler  of  the  stars,  the  Governor of  skies,  you  will  find  yourself  to  be  the  all.  People have  a  shyness  in  applying  this  truth  and embracing  thai  divine  principle.  Come  up,  hesitate not.  Take  hold  of  this  truth  fearlessly.  Make  bold  to hug  it  to  your  bosom  and  make  it  yourself.  Realize the Truth and the Truth will make you free.

It  is  a  sin  not  to  say  ―I  am  God. It  is  the  worst  theft to steal  the  Atma.  It  is  falsehood  and  atheism  to say ―I  am  a  man  or  woman or  to  call  yourself  a  poor crawling  creature.  Do  not  play  the  miser's  part.  The miser  has  all  the  treasures  in  his  house,  but  does not  want  to  part  with  a  single  cent.  You  have  the whole  world  within  you,  the  whole  universe  is your  own.  Why  hide  it?  Why  not  bring  it  into  use? Put  it  into  practice;  drink  deep  of  the  nectar  of  your own  Self!  Why  not  gain  your  own  natural  intrinsic kingship?

The  people  in  India  call  this  Realization  of  the Absolute  Truth,  regaining  of  the  forgotten necklace.  There  was  a  man  who  wore  around  his neck  a  most  precious  and  long  necklace  or  garland. It  slipped  down  the  back  of  his  body  by  some means,  and  he  forgot  it.  Not  finding  it  dangling there  on  his  breast,  he  began  to  search  for  it.  The search  was  all  in  vain.  He  shed  tears  and  bewailed the  loss  of  his  priceless  necklace.  He  asked someone  to  find  it  for  him,  if  possible.  ―Well,  said someone  to  him,  ―if  I  find  the  necklace  for  you, what  will  you  give  me?  ―The  man  answered,  ―I will  give  you  anything  you  ask. The  man  reaching his  hand  to  the  neck  of  his  friend,  and  touching  the necklace  said,  ―Here  is  the  necklace.  It  was  not  lost, it  was  still  around  your  neck  but  you  had  forgotten it.‖What  a  pleasant  surprise!  Similarly,  your Godhead  is  not  outside  yourself,  you  are  already God,  you  are  the  same.  It  is  strange  oblivion  that makes  you  forgetful  of  your  real  Self,  your  real God-head.  Remove  this  ignorance,  dispel  this darkness,  away  with  it,  and  von  are  God  already.

By  your  nature  you  are  free;  you  have  forgotten yourself in your state of slavery.

A  king  may  fall  asleep  and  find  himself  a  beggar; he  may  dream  that  he  is  a  beggar,  but  that  can  in no way interfere with his real sovereignty.

O  King  of  kings,  my  dear  Self  in  all  these  bodies, absolute  monarch,  quintessence  of  blessing,  O  dear one,  make  not  a  slave  of  yourself  in  the  dream  of ignorance.  Arise  and  rule  in  your  supreme  majesty, ye  are  God,  ye  could  be  nothing  else.  With  full force  from  within,  casting  away  all  hesitation, feebleness  and  weakness,  jump  right  into  the  pure ―I  am,  or  Self.  You  are  God;  He  and  I  are  one. What  a  balmy  thought,  what  a  blessed  idea.  It takes  away  all  misery  and  unloads  all  our  burdens. Wander  not  outside  yourself.  Keep  your  own centre.  Archimedes  said,  ―If  I  can  find  a  fixed fulcrum,  a  standpoint,  I  can  more  the  world, but he  could  not  find  the  fixed  point,  poor  fellow.  The fixed point  is  within  you. It  is  your  Self.  Get  hold of it and the whole universe is moved by you.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 14, 2016, 09:50:30 AM
Truth is your Birth-Right.
Assert it and be master of universe.
Truth is "Tat-Tvam-Asi" - "That Thou Art"

 ~ Rama
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 14, 2016, 08:17:01 PM
Stray thoughts...

Only when the mind is renounced, does everything gets renounced and only then the beatitude of that which is - the Self can shine forth! And, how does one renounce the mind? By disregarding its contents, mind gets renounced.

In other words, *never mind the mind* !
* Bhagawan

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 14, 2016, 08:22:48 PM
Stray thoughts...

You can only renounce that which is truly not yours &
You can never renounce that which is truly yours!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 14, 2016, 08:52:13 PM
Stray thoughts...

Two illustrous children of mind - ignorance and knowledge claim you as their father and you are not married at all!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 14, 2016, 08:59:44 PM
Stray thoughts...

None should have an ill luck of wasting an entire life time in quest for truth!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 14, 2016, 09:26:53 PM
Stray thoughts...

The sole object of any spiritual practice is the realisation of one's true self.

Stillness of mind is not the self but that stillness helps, where one is free from the distractions of the mind, quietitude of mind results in clarity and thereby it facilitates like a mirror that helps one realise/recognise one's true Self, as the sun knows itself as the sun, as the man knows himself as man, the self is known/realised as the self!

Bhagawan suggested self enquiry as a direct practice that leads to self realisation. But then self has to be realised.

"If one enquires ?Who am I?? within the mind, the individual ?I? falls down abashed as soon as one reaches the Heart and immediately Reality manifests itself spontaneously as ?I-I.? Although it reveals itself as ?I,? it is not the ego but the Perfect Being, the Absolute Self."

It is only because of the Self's light that the self enquiry even takes place. Like it is by Sun's light that the moon shines and provides light, so does one practices self enquiry or any spiritual practice by the light of Self only!

Therefore, enquiry has to lead to self realisation by self recognition else self enquiry can become an endless loop if the true self is not recognised that is at all times shining as bright as the sun!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 15, 2016, 06:58:45 AM
Ignorance of the true nature of Self
Is alone the seed of the mind.
Ignorance of the true nature of Self
Alone gives rise to the idea of 'I'

~ Yoga Vasishta
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on February 15, 2016, 07:29:19 AM
Stray thoughts...

No one is ever ignorant at any time. If one feels he is incomplete or ignorant, Bhagawan said find out who is ignorant and upon enquiry it will be found that there is no ignorance and one's true nature has to be known or realised, else enquiry has to be practiced repeatedly untill the Self is realised.

Real proper Self enquiry can happen only once by which the Self is realised and there ends all quest and practices when the Self is known or realised.

Self has to be known! Otherwise any spiritual practice will be in vain!

The purpose of Self enquiry is not to be used just for quitening the disturbed mind and for relaxing ones mind when troubled by mundane issues asking for whom are these experiences and so on. The real enquiry is only for the purpose of self realisation alone.

If you feel agitated and enquire who is agitated then only the non agitation of mind results from such enquiry but when the intention is the realisation of Self alone, such enquiry will never go without revealing the true nature of one real Self and then one has to be able to recognise when the real Self is shining like the Sun.

What would be the point when the Sun shines and if you fail to notice the very Sun itself?

One should have knowledge about the nature of Self to be able to recognise realise the Self. Without thr knowledge of Self, Self will remain unrealised even though it may shine like thousand suns awaiting to engulf you!

ten men crossed a stream and wanted to make sure they were all safe. In counting, each one left himself out and found only nine. A passerby gave each a blow and made them count the ten blows. the tenth man in the story was the tenth man and none else.

Similarly too, self enquiry must result in the realisation, knowing or recognising the the self as the very tenth man and none else, if the tenth man remains unrecognised, the counting will continue for ever, so too, the enquiry will continue for ever if the Self remains unrecognised!

--

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on April 30, 2016, 11:54:50 PM
Stray thoughts...

यज्ज्ञात्वा नेह भूयोऽन्यज्ज्ञातव्यमवशिष्यते ....
the knowledge, by knowing which there shall be no other thing here left to be known.

Krishna says so in the Gita...what appears in Mundakopanishad

If one is able to win the grace of the Guru. So much births is one one saved from!

O', how, how fortunate are we to be blessed by Bhagawan.... He has saved us from so much knowledge! Indeed!

He has saved us so much more walking.... tiring... ourselves.... those who are blessed to realise his message are indeed greatly fortunate!! Indeed greatly fortunate!!

Lo! Hesr everybody! This Ramana distributes sweets free of cost. He asks nothing in return. He only asks everyone to take it as it is! And those that are able to take it are are blessed, blessed, indeed greatly blessed!!

Friends, in space terminology, there is a term called "Wormhole" it is a hypothetical topological feature that would fundamentally be a shortcut connecting two separate points in spacetime. A wormhole, in theory, might be able to connect extremely far distances such as a billion light years or more, short distances such as a few feet, different universes, and different points in time. A wormhole is much like a tunnel with two ends, each at separate points in spacetime.

Bhagawan is such a wormhole... so enter this wormhole and you will be cut short of so many births!!!

How blessed we are! How blessed we are! We must realise how blessed we are to be here with Bhagawan. Only then we can see the seriousness of it!!!

Do not miss the great opportunity of this birth!



சாப்பா டுன்னைச் சார்ந்துண வாயான்
சாந்தமாய்ப் போவ னருணாசலா   (அ)

To  feed on you I came, O  Arunachala, but I have become your food and am now at peace.


Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 14, 2016, 06:13:34 AM
"Oral lectures are not so eloquent as silence. Silence is unceasing eloquence."

"Language is only a medium for communicating ones thoughts to another. It is called in only after thoughts arise, when one remains without thinking, one understands another by means of the universal language of silence. Silence is the eternal flow of language, obstructed by words."

~ Ramana Bhagawan
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 16, 2016, 09:34:18 PM
Stray thoughts...

What Bhagawan has specially done in addition to simplifying Vedanta is that he has simply DE-MYSTIFIED everything.

Mysticism is something that may appear wonderful but could cause a sort of disturbances in some divine fantasies. Each school each path has its own uniqueness. But for me Ramana has totally done away from any kind of mysticisms.

Another great instance that has profoundly affected me in Ramana is this instance given below:

A disciple of a reputed Swami of South India, Vilakshananda, came to Bhagavan to have his darshan. With some hesitation he started telling Bhagavan about his guru's strict injunction that each one of his devotees should do so many thousands of japa daily and surrender the phala to the guru as their offering and that they were following it without fail.

Bhagavan smiled and observed: "Is it so? It is to be appreciated. So much gain for the guru with no strain on his part!" While Bhagavan was saying this, Muruganar entered the Old Hall. Turning to him Bhagavan said: "Do you know? His guru commands each one of his disciples to perform so many thousands of nama-japa and surrender the phala(merit) to him, as guru kanikkai (offering). After that will there be any balance for the disciples? It looks like one keeping the principal and surrendering the interest to the guru as offering. How do you appreciate this?"

Muruganar with tears in his eyes replied: "Bhagavan! Their guru is far better. He at least leaves the principal and demands only the interest. But this guru here (pointing to Bhagavan) is worse. He takes away the principal itself; then where is room for interest? He demands the devotees' mulam(principal) and vaddi(interest) all at once!" Bhagavan gave a benign smile enjoying the poet's joke with deep meaning!

What Muruganar meant was that Bhagavan wipes out the mind and the ego of his devotees.



So who remains to even to do self enquiry! If Ramana is a Dhobi washerman and you give your clothes for washing, he not only washes the shirt clean but cleans the shirt off completely! Returns you nothing in return.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 16, 2016, 09:48:36 PM
Stray thoughts...

If i may be allowed to express with freedom, here is what i would like to express - that this Ramana offers NO-HELP ! Yes, and this perhaps is the greatest help one can ever expect! This Ramana's glory is such that when once He owns you, simultaneously you are disowned!

This Ramana perhaps puts even Dakshinamurty to shame.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 16, 2016, 09:58:23 PM
Sanskrit!

Prathama Purusha - Third Person
Ayam Atma Brahma - He is Brahman

Madhyama Purusha - Second Person
Tat Tvam Asi - You Are That  (Brahman)

Uttama Purusha - First Person
Aham Brahmasi - I am Brahman

Vedanta over!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 16, 2016, 10:14:16 PM
Stray thoughts...

We all think Bhagawan gave us Self Enquiry. He asked us to enquire who am i. It actually is a mockery! What can we-you DO! He says! What can you do? Do you think you can do something? Who Are You! I Say! Who are you! And we (who never is*) shamelessly enquire!

* nasato vidyate bhavo nabhavo vidyate satah - Gita
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 16, 2016, 10:29:48 PM
Stray thoughts...

I have never come across another; Ramana who has his loins covered with Koupina seems to convey to us, see I am just like you. I am just like you. No secrets No mysticims in me. I am just like you. In other words he seems to convey we are just like him. Why 'like'  HE IS YOU AND YOU, HIM! There is nothing different in me that is not in you! There is nothing unique in me that is not in you!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Beloved Abstract on May 20, 2016, 10:49:42 PM
 :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on May 22, 2016, 10:42:02 PM
D.:  There  is  something  concrete  necessary  to  meditate  upon.  How shall we meditate upon ?I??

M.: We have become rooted in forms and so we require a concrete form for meditating upon. Only that which we contemplate will in the end remain over.  When you contemplate the other thoughts  disappear.  So  long  as you need to contemplate there are other thoughts, Where are you? You contemplate because you exist. For the contemplator must contemplate. The contemplation can only be where he is. Contemplation wards off all  other  thoughts. You  should  merge  yourself  in  the  source. At  times we merge in the source  unconsciously,  as  in  sleep,  death,  swoon,  etc. What is contemplation? It is merging into the source consciously. Then the  fear  of  death,  of  swoon,  etc.  will  disappear,  because  you  are  able to  merge  into  the  source  consciously.

~ Talks
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 01, 2016, 04:52:23 PM
Stray thoughts...

A wise man is busy doing nothing!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 01, 2016, 08:04:59 PM
அடக்கம் அமரருள் உய்க்கும் அடங்காமை
ஆரிருள் உய்த்து விடும்

Self-control will place (a man) among the Gods;
the want of it will drive (him) into the thickest
darkness (of hell)

Thirukkural
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on June 02, 2016, 07:01:20 AM
Good verse from TirukkurAl.Sage TGN gave a true insight by splitting the word  அமரருள் as அமர்+அருள், meaning abiding Grace.It is generally interpreted as அமரர் +உள் meaning among the Gods.
TGN points out the word ஆரிருள்=ஆர்+இருள், meaning dense darkness of ignorance.The opposite of அருள் is இருள் and Tiruvalluvar is juxtaposing the words to maximize the expression and effect.
The Verse would then be understood as :
அடக்கம் அமர் அருள் உய்க்கும்
அடங்காமை ஆர் இருள் உய்த்துவிடும்

self control would raise one to abiding Grace
The lack of it would plunge(one) in Dense darkness(of Ignorance).

TGN further points out how Bharatiyar uses the same pair of words in his Kuyil song(Cuckoo's song)

1.அருளே யாநல் லொளியே;
ஒளிபோ மாயின், ஒளிபோ மாயின்
இருளே
, இருளே, இருளே.

It is Grace light ....sans that it is Dense Darkness of ignorance.

Tiruvalluvar simply uses words beginning with the first few letters of the Tamizh alphabets அ ஆ இ உ.........the verse conveys the ABC of spiritual living just like Patanjali's yoga sutra begins with Yogash chitta vritti nirodhah.



Title: Re: my musings
Post by: atmavichar100 on June 02, 2016, 08:02:46 AM

Dear Sri Ravi

Thanks for giving an excellent interpretation to THE THIRUKURAL shared by Sri Nagaraj with Sage TGN's unique insights .I suggest you open a separate thread for sharing Thirukural based on Sage TGN's interpretation .
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 02, 2016, 09:24:00 AM
Thanks Sri Ravi for sharing Sage TGN's interpretations. It gives more weight indeed! Thirukkural is the most non sectarian and most universal work acceptable to one and all groups without an iota of hesitation! I am always marvelled at this work and Avvaiyar's Aathichudi.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on June 02, 2016, 12:57:50 PM
Atmavichar/Nagaraj,
Yes ,TGN offered rare insights in his talks on Tirukkural.He conducted a series of wonderful talks on Tirukkural spread across several weekends.I think i shared some of the verses somewhere here in the Forum.
Apropos of  அருள் vs இருள்,we have the verse of Thayumanavar from his Ananda kaLippu:

அருளால் எவையும்பார் என்றான் - அத்தை
      அறியாதே சுட்டிஎன் அறிவாலே பார்த்தேன்
இருளான பொருள்கண்ட தல்லால்-கண்ட
      என்னையுங் கண்டிலன் என்னேடி தோழி -     (சங்கர சங்கர சம்போ)

This again goes squarely with TGN's insight on that couplet from Tirukkural.

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 02, 2016, 04:15:19 PM
Sri Ravi, what a beautiful verse of Thayumanavar. This is one of my many favourites! Absolutely divine! Thank you.

அருளால் எவையும்பார் என்றான் - அத்தை
      அறியாதே சுட்டிஎன் அறிவாலே பார்த்தேன்
இருளான பொருள்கண்ட தல்லால்-கண்ட
      என்னையுங் கண்டிலன் என்னேடி தோழி -     (சங்கர சங்கர சம்போ)

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 17, 2016, 09:22:41 AM
Stray thoughts....

.....such is life!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 22, 2016, 06:30:01 AM
Stray thoughts...

What is Bhakti, Sraddha (faith)?

Exercise of Viveka is Bhakti, and
Its sustenance is Sraddha or faith.



Some time back our friend, Sri Anil ji, came up with this question as to what is faith or Sraddha. after a due deliberation and contemplation, i seem to have come up with this reflection in a sudden inspiration (as above) and I feel quite satisfied with this.

The exercise of Viveka is Bhakti and its sustenance is Sraddha or faith. Whenever we fall down, the only Ashraya or shelter that we have is the Lord, The Lord is Himself Viveka. Smarana or remembrance of the Lord or His Gunas (Nature) or Self-Enquiry is Bhakti. And No matter how many times we fall, this inspiration to get up once again and exercise Viveka yet again is Faith or Sraddha.

According to some legend an emperor when he was jailed after a bad defeat, observed a spider spinning a web, trying to make a connection from one area of the cave's roof to another. Each time the spider failed, it began again until it succeeded. Inspired by this, the emperor returned to inflict a series of defeats on the English, thus winning him more supporters and eventual victory.

"if at first you don't succeed, try try again." - This is Sraddha Faith

The Willingness to Try is Sraddha Faith
And the very effort of trying is Viveka - deliberation - effort

We should always remember this watching the spider make its attempt seven times, succeeding on the eighth try!

Point to note is that the Spider's effort on all 7 occassions were made with utter sincerity and maximum effort!

Like how Krishna says in Gita Uddharet Atmanaatmanam - the Self is both your friend (Devas) and your enemy (Asuras). When your find yourself being pulled by your own bad self (Asuras), you have to pull yourself(Devas) back again to poise.

You are your own friend and foe.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on June 22, 2016, 11:27:06 AM
Stray thoughts...

Just by investing few seeds on the soil and with subsequent investment of care, doesn't Mother Earth give back multiple times more grains than we invested in the form of seeds?

How much would the Supreme Lord would give us if we are able to reach out to Him? Here Supreme Lord gives Himself as a return!

Only we need to do the little needful! Little bit effort care and grace follows automatically!

Only eligibility is to have a desire for profit! Who would not want profit for oneself?

In Bible we have:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you"

All we need is only this much!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 01, 2016, 10:13:50 AM
Stray thoughts...

The End is.... Endlessness!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 01, 2016, 11:38:19 AM
Stray thoughts...

I felt, we would be doing great service to Arunachala Ksetram by simply being in our place, in constant remembrance of Arunachala within! The Ksetram is flooded with people every Purnima and big festival days and how much the place can take in?

Bhagavan's Vichara is most appropriate to our times and is greatly beneficial to Mother Nature. Simply by being where we are, we render lot of help to the geographical and biological aspects of Mother nature!

Having got the message of Bhagavan, it would be in the best interest to abide and meditate within and not develop this desire to keep visiting Arunachala. Also, the number of visitors to Asramam have increased by the day and is only going to increase in days to come!

Having said as above, still grace wills and commands differently!

Follow your heart!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Beloved Abstract on July 01, 2016, 09:01:19 PM
what is a thought made of ?
what is the substance of a thought ?
 :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 01, 2016, 09:09:50 PM
what is a thought made of ?
what is the substance of a thought ?
 :)

Dear friend, thought is made up of the same substance from where it arises.

ॐ पूर्णमदः पूर्णमिदं पूर्णात्पुर्णमुदच्यते
पूर्णस्य​ पूर्णमादाय पूर्णमेवावशिष्यते ॥

ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥

 :)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on July 01, 2016, 09:42:51 PM
Beloved abstract,

Quote
what is a thought made of ?
what is the substance of a thought ?

The Highest manifestation of thought is this....it 'questions'(as in the two questions above)......it 'questions' what is observed.....this questioning, if it becomes fundamental....it questions the questioner....this is vichara....and it ends up in its very source.

Turned outwardly,thought is an 'excursion' into the outer world of phenomena,a picnic,a play.(This is called maya or leela).It is what qualifies the word 'abstract' as 'Beloved' and calls itself 'Beloved abstract'...ha,ha.

In either case ,thought is a force,a power to reckon with.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 03, 2016, 12:05:33 AM
Stray thoughts...

All spiritual theories and gods fail at some point, no matter how much one may sermonize! There you just can't not admit your helplessness on the fact that no answers were really good enough! Nobody knows! You will see for yourself that you have only been trying to convince yourself so long!

You then slowly learn, begin to stand on your own legs!

The only god and theory that has truly been of some substance is compassion. all else is only junk!

Anbe Sivam. Leave out even that Siva!

Anbe !!
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 03, 2016, 12:16:38 AM
Stray thoughts...

if you are the first living being here now! You have no past, there are no past knowledge, no past gurus, gods, theories, scriptures... nothing! Can you see originally by yourselves without any knowledge as the first man/woman?

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 03, 2016, 12:32:49 AM
Stray thoughts...

Giving up the non truth* is very painful, but it is one very bitter medicine we have to swallow!

*originally i wanted to use non self. But now i am more comfortable with using the word truth. We may say self is truth, i'd rather have no other alternative for the word truth!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on July 03, 2016, 04:54:44 AM
It is said that truthfulness alone constitutes the spiritual discipline of the Kaliyuga. If a man clings tenaciously to truth he ultimately realizes God. Without this regard for truth, one gradually loses everything. If by chance I say that I will go to the pine-grove, I must go there even if there is no further need of it, lest I lose my attachment to truth. After my vision of the Divine Mother, I prayed to Her, taking a flower in my hands: 'Mother, here is Thy knowledge and here is Thy ignorance. Take them both, and give me only pure love. Here is Thy holiness and here is Thy unholiness. Take them both, Mother, and give me pure love. Here is Thy good and here is Thy evil. Take them both, Mother, and give me pure love. Here is Thy righteousness, and here is Thy unrighteousness. Take them both,Mother, and give me pure love.' I mentioned all these, but I could not say: 'Mother, here is Thy truth and here is Thy falsehood. Take them both.' I gave up everything at Her feet but could not bring myself to give up truth.

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.

This is one of the most deeply stirring message from the master in the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on July 03, 2016, 04:58:53 AM
There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better, for worse, as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried.

Excerpt from the essay Self Reliance- by Ralph Waldo Emerson
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Ravi.N on July 03, 2016, 05:02:24 AM
Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist. He who would gather immortal palms must not be hindered by the name of goodness, but must explore if it be goodness. Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind. Absolve you to yourself, and you shall have the suffrage of the world.

Self Reliance by Ralph Waldo Emerson
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 03, 2016, 11:00:30 AM
Thank you Sri Ravi, i may not have got a better response.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 06, 2016, 11:40:30 PM
Stray thoughts...

Do not waste the night in sleep and do not waste the day in activities and people!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 06, 2016, 11:42:36 PM
Stray thoughts...

Night is more real and genuine than the day. The Day fools you around!
Sleep if need be in the day, but be awake in the nights, and observe.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 07, 2016, 11:11:14 PM
Stray thoughts...

Nothing is more soothing than chanting Omkara.
It is healing, negativity dispeller, Positivity propeller!



--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 08, 2016, 04:28:39 PM
Stray thoughts...

Anger is of two kinds. One that arises out of power, ahamkaram, it causes disturbances to others and disharmony.

There is another kind of anger, an anger that arises out of helplessness, balaheenam, this anger is of satvic type that one comes face to face with ones own inability, ones own insignificance before the allmighty! This kind of anger gives birth to humility.
_
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on July 26, 2016, 01:48:23 AM
Stray thoughts...

Do not fear impermanancy, and
do not long for permanancy!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 15, 2016, 09:42:21 AM
(https://sanjukta.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/bharat-mata.png)

जननी जन्मभूमिश्च स्वर्गादपि गरीयसी

jananī janmabhūmiśca svargādapi garīyasī

mother and birthplace are greater than heaven

(Lord Rama, Valmiki Ramayan)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 15, 2016, 10:02:34 AM
Where the mind is without fear
and the head is held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been
broken up into fragments
by narrow domestic walls; ...
Where the clear stream of reason
has not lost its way into the
dreary desert sand of dead habit; ...
Into that heaven of freedom,
my Father, let my country awake




?O heart of mine, awake in this holy place of pilgrimage
In this land of India, on the shore of vast humanity?


- Sri Rabindranath Tagore

Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on August 22, 2016, 08:45:44 AM
Stray thoughts...

Among all The greatest treasure
parents can give their children is
good Samskaram coupled with
Shraddha (Bhakti-Jnana-Vairagya)

And carrying forward this
Samskaram is the
greatest oblation the
child can give to this
parents and forefathers.


--
               (http://www.teluguone.com/tone_cms//eventpics/admin1475194560puskaruni-katha.JPG)
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 02, 2016, 12:24:30 AM
भक्तिमें बालक बनो..
कर्म में युवा बनो..
और
ज्ञान में वृद्ध बनो।


Become...
A child in Bhakti
A youth in Karma and
An old person in Jnana

~ from a Hindi Satsang.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 04, 2016, 11:26:00 PM
Stray thoughts...

You can't be free of problems
But you can be free from problems!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 04, 2016, 11:57:45 PM
Stray thoughts...

Nothing gives you more joy than
*doing your Swadharma!

* doing your duty.
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 04, 2016, 11:58:56 PM
Stray thoughts...

The expression of truth is Dharma!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2016, 12:04:25 AM
Stray thoughts...

If not for the occassional stumbling blocks of our life, we will keep taking our lives to be real! Difficulties, mistakes, problems, deatha keep reminding us the illusory nature of this life and world!

Each of these stumbling blocks open a window towards the truth, giving us an opportunity to see the truth as it is!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 05, 2016, 12:15:29 AM
Stray thoughts...

On death -

Say you dream yourself travelling from one place to another, talk chit chat with somebody, and some such other activities...

Then its time and you wake up from your dream!

What happened to you in dream? You died there!

That is all death too! You die there tto wake up here! We will die here to wake up elsewhere!

When we look closely, its not exciting right?

The Rishis claim realise the Self and transcend this dream of birth and death! Anyone is free to do so!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2016, 05:40:46 PM
Stray thoughts...

Though the cow is full of milk, ever ready to give away all its milk, it cannot itself give milk to the calf. It is upto the calf to reach out to the cow and drink milk. So too, a seeker, has to milk the ambrosia of Truth-milk from the Guru.



सर्वोपनिषदो गाव: दोग्धा गोपालनंदन: |
पार्थो वत्स: सुधी: भोक्ता दुग्धं गीतामॄतं महत् ||
 
All Upanishads are (like)cows, Gopala nandana (Shrikrishna) is their keeper. Intelligent Partha (Arjuna) is the calf who enjoys the milk and splendid GeetAmRit is the milk of these cows. (Geeta is the precise summary of all Upanishadas.)

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2016, 08:35:28 PM
Stray thoughts...

Sometimes, all that one needs is just love and all that one needs to get is just love and all that is to know is just love! Nothing heals more than an unconditional pure love. Jnana need not just be the Self alone. Sometimes it needs to be realised as love, it can never be realised as Self.

Some times we need not even realise the Self. Sometimes one just needs to love. This itself is realisation!

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2016, 08:42:33 PM
Stray thoughts...

Love is the greatest healer! Nothing heals more than love. Infact, the greatest take-away from Bhagawan and Ramakrishna was only their love. Jnana-stuffs were only secondary.

For all the 3 maladies i.e.

Adyatmika, Adibhautika and Adidaivika,

Love heals very quickly.

Healing itself is Jnana.

--
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2016, 08:46:13 PM
Stray thoughts...

By simply being, (as what Bhagawan says) abundant love is generated to the universe!

Simply being is to be at absolute peace with oneself. Being absolute peace with oneself is love - Ananda.

-
Title: Re: my musings
Post by: Nagaraj on September 07, 2016, 08:54:14 PM
Stray thoughts...

Sometimes, jnana or realisation may not just result by meditation or any other spiritual practices, it can only be realised in the very precarious situation or station of our lives where we are placed currently.

--