The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => General topics => Topic started by: Jyoti on May 01, 2012, 10:49:39 PM

Title: Shakti Ma
Post by: Jyoti on May 01, 2012, 10:49:39 PM
What was Bhagavans relationship with Shakti Ma?
I know he didn't worship Devi aas Shaktas do, but I want to know.
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 02, 2012, 01:11:48 PM
Dear Jyoti,

Sri Bhagavan never composed any poem  on Sakti, the Mother.  He used to address Arunachala itself as Ammai-Appa,
Mother-Father in His poems. (Navamani Malai verse 9).

When someone asked why He has not composed any poem on Sakti, He answered saying: "That Power is only within me
making me do all these things."   

Even on His arrival at Arunachala, when He went inside the Temple, He only went to Arunachaleswara to say that He had
come as per His command. He did not visit Ummamulai Ammn shrine. On another occasion, when the idols of Arunachaleswara
Apeetakuchambal were kept on the outer portals during a festival, He went there in guise as a Vaishnavite and prayed to both
of them.

Arunachala Siva, 
   
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: sanjaya_ganesh on May 02, 2012, 02:13:30 PM
Subramanian sir - Thank you. I recall Bhagawan also saying once that HE is one who is even inside SHE and not the other way - even lightly joking on English spelling. Meaning that HE is the core which is making SHE act even.

Even logically, I do not think - Shakthi can be separated. In other words, what is Maya - nothing but the "power of Supreme Brahman". For example, on a lighter note, you can not tell someone like S P Balasubramiam that : "Sir, you please sit in this seat and keep your 'ability to sing' on the other chair". It is one and the same. They dont have existence separately. Thank you again.

Peace,
Sanjay
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 02, 2012, 04:20:49 PM
Dear sanjaya_ganesh,

There is a beautiful verse by Saint Manikkavachagar in Tiruvachakam:

Kovil Mootha Tirupadigam - The Elder Decade on Kovil (Chidambaram).

udaiyAL unRan naduvirukkum udayAL naduvuL nee irutthi
adiyen naduvuL iruveerum iruppathAnAl adiyen un
adiyAr naduvuL irukkum aruLai puriyAi pon amabalathem
mudiya mudhale en karuthu mudiyum vaNNam muninRe.

UdaiyAL, that is Uma is within you. You also keep yourself within udaiyAL (Sakti)
Within this slave both of you are there!  This slave
Must ever be within the group of your devotees, please give that Grace to me.
O Who stays in Hall of Consciousness! One who is without end and without beginning
  please bestow my wish (of staying in your abode), come before me!

Siva and Sakti are concorporate in Saiva Siddhantam.

Arunachala Siva.   
 
   
 
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Nagaraj on May 02, 2012, 05:09:53 PM
Dear i,

Here is the same verse in tamizh

உடையாள் உன்தன் நடுவிருக்கும் உடையாள் நடுவுள் நீயிருத்தி
அடியேன் நடுவுள் இருவீரும் இருப்பதானால் அடியேன்உன்
அடியார் நடுவுள் இருக்கும் அருளைப்புரி யாய் பொன்னம்பலத்தெம்
முடியா முதலே என்கருத்து முடியும் வண்ணம் முன்னின்
றே


udaiyAL unRan naduvirukkum udayAL naduvuL nee irutthi
adiyen naduvuL iruveerum iruppathAnAl adiyen un
adiyAr naduvuL irukkum aruLai puriyAi pon amabalathem
mudiya mudhale en karuthu mudiyum vaNNam muninRe.

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Jyoti on May 04, 2012, 03:27:07 AM
Sri Bhagavan never composed any poem  on Sakti, the Mother.   
But didn't Bhagavan compose 300 of the verses of the Umasarashranama by Ganapati Muni?
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 04, 2012, 01:50:50 PM
Dear Jyoti,

Sri Bhagavan, when Ganapati Muni had paucity of time and was nervous,  He helped Ganapati Muni to compose 300 slokas
of Uma Sahasram, by inspiring Muni at that point.  However, He asked finally the disciples, who were taking down the verses:
Is it all now complete?

Uma Sahasram is now published only in Ganapati Muni's name. Sri Bhagavan never claimed any ownership for the 300 verses,
inspired by Him.

Arunachala Siva.     
 
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Jyoti on May 04, 2012, 06:20:48 PM
Is there any possibility to read Uma Sahasram in English?
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 04, 2012, 06:23:36 PM
Dear Jyoti,

I found the book Uma Sahasram in Sri Ramanasram during my last visit in April 2012. I did not read inside the book.
It may be containing Sanskrit slokas with English meaning.  The price is Rs 363 plus courier charges.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Jyoti on May 04, 2012, 06:29:36 PM
Dear Jyoti,

I found the book Uma Sahasram in Sri Ramanasram during my last visit in April 2012. I did not read inside the book.
It may be containing Sanskrit slokas with English meaning.  The price is Rs 363 plus courier charges.

Arunachala Siva.
Dear Mr. Subramanian,

Thank you very much - only problems are I live in Europe and have no credit card...  :(
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Nagaraj on May 04, 2012, 06:32:05 PM
Dear i,

you may listen/download to the Uma Sahasranaama chanted by MP Pandit in the following links:

http://www.infobuddhism.com/infobuddhism/Umasahasram%20Part%20I%20of%20II.mp3 (http://www.infobuddhism.com/infobuddhism/Umasahasram%20Part%20I%20of%20II.mp3)

http://www.infobuddhism.com/infobuddhism/Umasahasram%20Part%20II%20of%20II.mp3 (http://www.infobuddhism.com/infobuddhism/Umasahasram%20Part%20II%20of%20II.mp3)

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Jyoti on May 05, 2012, 12:50:13 AM
Even on His arrival at Arunachala, when He went inside the Temple, He only went to Arunachaleswara to say that He had
come as per His command. He did not visit Ummamulai Ammn shrine.
On the other hand Bhagavan visited the temple of Meenakshi.
Didn't he spend some time there before he went to Arunachala?
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 05, 2012, 09:37:56 AM
Dear Jyoti,

The biographers say that when Sri Bhagavan went to Meenakshi Temple, He spent time mostly with the idols of
63 Saints and prayed to God that He should have bhakti like those saints.

For your satisfaction, when He was still younger, in Tiruchuzhi, when someone in the house shouted at Him for some
mistake, He went to Sri Bhoomi Natha Swami Temple and stayed inside the sanctum of Sahayavalli Amman, the goddess
of the temple and remained for quite a good time, to remove His misery. The misery left and He experienced indescribable
happiness within.

One of the 108 Holy Names of Sri Bhagavan says:

SahayAmba sahAyavathe Namah |


Salutations to the One who received the help of Sahayamba |

Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Ravi.N on May 05, 2012, 10:06:04 AM
Friends,
It is interesting to see that Sri Bhagavan was all along taken care of by 'Mother' only in the various guises,as his Chitti(younger mother),as the younger sister of Muthukrishna Bhagavathar,as the peerless Mudaliar PAtti(Grandma),as EchammAl.Sri Bhagavan's devotion can be seen from this excerpt in 'The Letters from Sri Ramanasramam':
23rd November, 1945
(3) QUARREL BETWEEN UMA AND MAHESWARA
This afternoon, while Viswanath was sitting near Bhagavan along with other devotees, Bhagavan was somehow
reminded of an old widow and began to speak about her as follows: (I afterwards learnt that she is the younger sister of
Muthu Krishna Bhagavathar who received Sri Bhagavan with kindness and gave him food at Kilur Agraharam.) “That good
lady not only gave me a hearty meal, but also, with a loving heart, gave me a parcel of sweetmeats offered as naivedya
(offerings to God) to the household God, saying, ‘My dear boy, keep this with you carefully and eat the sweetmeats on
the way.’ She came to see me twice while I was in Virupaksha Cave and used to say, ‘My dear boy, look what a state you are
in! Your body is golden and you do not even wrap a cloth round it.’” When he spoke in this strain about her motherly
affection, I could see that Bhagavan was overflowing with love. His voice was choked with emotion.
That sight reminded me
of the saying that the heart of a Jnani is as soft as butter, and once more of the old saying, “bhakti poornathaya Jnanam” (The
culmination of devotion is knowledge). Sometime back, while reading that portion in Arunachala
Purana where Gautama was extolling Amba, Bhagavan’s eyes were flooded with tears, his voice faltered and he put the
book aside and sank into silence. Whenever any incident full of love takes place, or whenever passages saturated with
bhakti are read, we often see Bhagavan thus overwhelmed with emotion. As one goes on observing, one gets confirmed
in the view that prema and bhakti (devotion) are merely different aspects of jnana (knowledge).About a week ago, a story appeared in the magazine
Hindu Sundari under the heading “Paachikalu” (dice). It seems it was taken from the Skanda Purana. Once, even Parvati
and Parameswara succumbed to the quarrel-mongering of Narada. “Lakshmi and Vishnu play dice, so why not you?”
said Narada, and egged them on to play. Parvati was enthusiastic over the idea and persuaded Siva to play dice
with her. In the game, Siva lost and Parvati was puffed up with pride and spoke slightingly of him. That is the legend.
After reading it, Bhagavan, his heart full of bhakti, asked me, “Have you read this story?” When I said, “Yes,
Bhagavan,” he said with a voice choked with feeling, “The holy festival which is annually performed here on Sankaranti
day, deals mainly with this quarrel between Uma and Maheswara.”
You know, every year, the divine marriage festival is celebrated here and during those days, if anybody were to
speak about the festival in Sri Bhagavan’s presence, Bhagavan would usually remark with great feeling, “This is the
marriage festival of Father and Mother
.” You know the lives of Mahatmas are full of peculiar incidents. They express in
their faces whatever rasa (feeling) is appropriate to the occasion. But what can one say in the presence of the all
pervading vijnana rasa which integrates all the other rasas?"

Quote
The biographers say that when Sri Bhagavan went to Meenakshi Temple, He spent time mostly with the idols of
63 Saints and prayed to God that He should have bhakti like those saints.

For your satisfaction, when He was still younger, in Tiruchuzhi,

Subramanian,we need not satisfy anyone!We have to understand that Devotion is not an external thing and cannot be inferred from where one stood,what he embraced,whether he visited ApeethakuchAmbAL's sannidhi,etc.

What Jyothi has been pointing out is that this aspect of Sri Bhagavan 's devotion to the Divine Mother is little acknowledged.Why should he consent to build a temple on his mother's samadhi and install a MEru chakra there?
Without the worship of the Divine Mother,the Ramanasramam would not be existing today!We need to recall that it was Sri Bhagavan's mother who started the cooking of meals and this is what is continuing today in the form of welcoming Sadhus and devotees today.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Nagaraj on May 05, 2012, 10:36:40 AM
Dear i,

yes, there is no doubt about Bhagavan's special connection with 'Mother' at all times. Cow Lakshmi, He was so fond of her, he used to address her as amma, and, he used to say, that it is only because of her that ashramam has been sustained, and most of the cows today, i hear are her descendants. Like Adi Shankara charitham, Bhagavan's life too, gives a special place for 'Mother'

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 05, 2012, 01:46:49 PM
Dear Ravi and Nagaraj,

You may see from the series of questions that Jyoti asked, whether Sri Bhagavan prayed to Sakti Ma, whether He has written
any poems on Sakti Ma and whether He had visited Sakti Ma's shrine in the temple. I think Jyoti has got some Sakti Ma as her
ishta devata, and so these questions were raised. Even if I had written about Mother Azhgammal, or Cow Lakshmi or Muthu
Krishna Bhagavatar's sister, who gave Him Gokulashtami sweets, or even His chitti, I am sure such replies would not have
satisfied Jyoti.  Hence it so happened, when I was chanting Sri Ramana Ashottaram,  this morning, the name Sahayamba
Sahayavan struck me and the anecdote that He hid Himself in the sanctum of Sahayavalli Amman shrine in Tiruchuzhi, struck a
cord in my mind.

It so happened that Jyoti pursued the question and to 'satisfy her' that I had to mention about the Tiruchuzhi incident.

I am sure an esoteric broadening of the truth that all womenfolk even cows are only Sakti Ma would not have definitely
satisfied her. Her question was to elicit information whether Sri Bhagavan prayed to Sakti Ma or wrote poems (remember
Jyoti mentioned about Uma Sahasram) on Sakti Ma or visited her shrines.

Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Ravi.N on May 05, 2012, 02:48:37 PM
Friends,
The Story of the Matrubhuteswara shrine as narrated by Sadhu Arunachala:
Bhagavan was deeply interested in the construction of the Shrine built over his Mother’s tomb. He attended
every function in connection with it, placing his hands in blessing on the various objects that were to be enclosed
in the walls. At night, when no one was about he would walk round and round the construction consecrating it.
That he should take such a demonstrative part in anything has a very deep significance. It was extremely rare and has
been doubted by many, but I myself was an eye-witness to these things and can vouch for their truth.
He took a personal interest in the cutting of the Sri Chakra Meru in granite which was installed in the
completed temple and is regularly worshipped. This is about one and a half feet square and proportionately high.
At the time of the Kumbhabhishekam, on the penultimate night before the sacred water was poured over the images,
he personally superintended the installation in the inner shrine. It was an extremely hot night and with three
charcoal retorts for melting the cement adding to the heat,it must have been intolerable inside the airless cave of the
inner shrine, but for about an hour and a half Bhagavan sat there telling the workmen what to do.
On the last night of the function he went in procession, opening the doors of the new Hall and temple
and passing straight up into the Inner Shrine, where he stood for some five minutes with both hands laid on the
Sri Chakra in blessing. I happened that night to be at his side the whole time; this was unusual as I deliberately
avoided taking prominent part in such things, preferring to watch from the back. Strangely, something made me
keep by him on this occasion and on account of this I was able to understand his deep interest in the Temple and
especially in the Sri Chakra. It was because of this knowledge that I was instrumental after Bhagavan’s passing,
in persuading the Ashram authorities to institute the Sri Chakra Poojas six times a month. The explanation for
this unusual action on Bhagavan’s part may be found in the necessity that Siva must be always accompanied by
Shakti. The world would stop otherwise
. On the only occasion when such a Pooja was performed shortly after
the dedication of the Temple during the life of Bhagavan,he refused to go for his evening meal but insisted on
remaining a witness of it until the end. When someone remarked how magnificent it had been and it would be a
good thing if such Poojas could be performed regularly,“Yes,” replied Bhagavan, “but who will take the trouble?
The trouble is being taken now and it undoubtedly has the blessings of Bhagavan.
I do not think that anyone who has written about Bhagavan and the Ashram has remarked on the
extraordinary fact that here we have a Temple dedicated by a Jnani; there cannot be very many such, and there
must be some very deep meaning in it. A great many devotees who come to the Ashram have only time for
the Samadhi where Bhagavan was interred. I do not pretend myself to understand why he did it or what
will be the consequences
, but it is certain that having been consecrated in this way it must for ever be a very
sacred spot and from it spiritual power must radiate all over India.

What Sadhu arunachala has openly confessed-"I do not pretend myself to understand why he did it or what
will be the consequences"
is indeed a food for thought for all of us.
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Ravi.N on May 05, 2012, 03:27:57 PM
Subramanian,
Quote
I think Jyoti has got some Sakti Ma as her ishta devata...I am sure an esoteric broadening of the truth that all womenfolk even cows are only Sakti Ma would not have definitely satisfied her...

 :)
I do not think anyone can be sure as all that!Here are some of the posts of Jyothi(he or she!it does not matter):

"I have no difficulty worshipping Arunachala, but I want to address Arunachala as mother".

"Ramakrishna Paramahamsa thought that Brahman and Shakti are the same.Is this true?"

But did not Bhagavan perform Sri Chakra puja?And Sri Chakra is the yantra of goddess Lalita Tripurasundari.


It is not as if anyone who has the Divine Mother as Ishta devata may have any difficulty in seeing all forms as that of the Ishta.As Sri Aurobindo,in the wonderful chapter 'Four Aids' in his Synthesis of Yoga' beautifully brings out:
By the Ishta Devata, the chosen deity, is meant, -- not some inferior Power, but a name and form of the transcendent and universal Godhead.
One may call it 'Father' or 'Mother' or 'Friend' -the key is to establish a relationship with God and in due course this relationship includes everything and becomes all embracing.

Namaskar.



Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 05, 2012, 03:53:10 PM
Dear Ravi,

Anyway let Jyoti post what she or he had in mind on this Sakti Ma topic.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Jyoti on May 06, 2012, 07:01:07 PM
Dear Ravi.N,

Thank you very much for this story.  :)
I also remeber that one day Bhagavan skiped his meal before going to Arunachala.
But when he was on his way, he meet 7 women who were providing him with food.
They said tey came on the command of Unnamulai Amman.
When I read this story, I thought that these women must have been the 7 Matrikas...
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Jyoti on May 07, 2012, 01:30:26 PM
Dear Jyoti,

The biographers say that when Sri Bhagavan went to Meenakshi Temple, He spent time mostly with the idols of
63 Saints and prayed to God that He should have bhakti like those saints.

For your satisfaction, when He was still younger, in Tiruchuzhi, when someone in the house shouted at Him for some
mistake, He went to Sri Bhoomi Natha Swami Temple and stayed inside the sanctum of Sahayavalli Amman, the goddess
of the temple and remained for quite a good time, to remove His misery. The misery left and He experienced indescribable
happiness within.

One of the 108 Holy Names of Sri Bhagavan says:

SahayAmba sahAyavathe Namah |


Salutations to the One who received the help of Sahayamba |

Arunachala Siva.     
Didn't Bhagavan also live in a temple of Periamman for some time because of an epidemic?
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 07, 2012, 02:58:15 PM
Dear Jyoti,

Sri Bhagavan stayed in a temple called Pachiamman Temple (this temple is now called Draupadi Amman Temple)
for some time when there was acute water shortage in the Hill. At that time, Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni and
Viswanatha Swami and a few others were staying with Him. He was there for about 6 months and returned to
the Hill when monsoon came and water position improved. Pachaiamman is a goddess and one can even today go
and pray to her. She is now called Draupadi Amman. This temple is about 1.5 kms from the present Asramam on the
Chengam Road itself on the foot hills. No need to climb  the Hill.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Ravi.N on May 24, 2012, 06:19:53 AM
Jyoti/Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Human gospel of Ramana Maharshi:
After the teenage Ramana came from Madurai to Tiruvannamalai, Bhagavan was in a state of unbroken natural Samadhi. While he was absorbed thus in Pathala linga, a dark, dank, underground niche deep inside the Tiruvannamalai temple, his body was feasted on by insects and vermin while he himself remained without food or care. Gracefully, the Divine Mother sent Ratnammal, a young dancer who was looked down upon by society. One day, Ratnammal saw some urchins throwing stones into the cave. She went inside and saw a dim figure sitting with a faint halo surrounding it. Feeling concerned as to how this ascetic could sustain himself, she brought food and fresh clothes, and left them at the entrance of the cave. Bhagavan, though, was lost in Samadhi, and her offerings remained untouched.
Later, Seshadri Swami discovered Bhagavan, and his body was taken out. Seshadri Swami instructed the temple priest to give milk to Bhagavan. This priest brought milk, not from the Arunachaleshwara shrine, but from Mother Apitakuchalambal‘s shrine in the Tiruvannamalai temple. This milk poured on Mother‘s idol, with turmeric, soap nut powder, and ghee was the first Prasad Mother gave him. Bhagavan was not even outwardly conscious; he was in deep Samadhi, so the priest opened his mouth and poured ―Mother‘s milk,‖ the first food that sustains. When Bhagavan
resumed bodily consciousness, he stayed under an illupai tree in the premises, rarely coming into outward consciousness.
Once, when Ratnammal was about to get ready for a dance performance, she noticed Bhagavan seated there. Turning to her mother she said, ―I will not eat until we have served this ascetic some food.‖ They tried to arouse Bhagavan, but in vain. So they opened his mouth and put food in. Sometimes he would swallow it. At other times, the food would remain unswallowed, and they would clean it up the next day. Bhagavan later on said, ―This is the Universal Mother represented by Ratnammal.‖ Bhagavan once told Nagamma, ―Ratnammal was pure.‖ To my knowledge, Bhagavan has never used such a description for anyone but Ratnammal. He explained that this was not a moral or physical purity he referred to, but to the fact that even in those days, she had the capacity to recognize the divine before her. The Universal Mother was sustaining him. When Bhagavan was to be moved from the temple to Gurumurtam, he pleaded with Ratnammal, ―You need not come there, it is too far.‖ She agreed and obeyed.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Nagaraj on May 24, 2012, 09:17:55 AM
Dear i,

on some occasion, when some such concerned devotees came the following day to again feed the boy Saint, and as usual when they opened his mouth, so as to feed him, they found the milk still in his mouth, he was thus, that much in Nishta.

(recollection from Arunachala's Ramana)

Prostrations to Bhagava
Title: Re: Shakti Ma
Post by: Jyoti on May 24, 2012, 10:17:35 AM
Dear Ravi N.

Thank you, thank you very much for telling me these things.  :)