The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => General topics => Topic started by: Jyoti on March 29, 2012, 03:05:07 AM

Title: Bhavamukha
Post by: Jyoti on March 29, 2012, 03:05:07 AM
I have read that Sri Ramakrishna got a command from Kali Devi to 'remain in Bhavamukha for the enlightenment of the people'.
Can please someone explain what Bhavamukha is?
Title: Re: Bhavamukha
Post by: ksksat27 on March 29, 2012, 10:16:35 AM
I think it is the borderline between creation and no creation.

Otherwise,  Thaku would have got fully absorbed in no creation state which is the supreme Ajata state where there is no one remaining even to utter God.

For example,  if we take the sanat kumaras and suka deva ,  they are not aware of our creation at all. Right at this moment,  this forum,  this 2012 ,  this kali yuga etc.  nothing they are aware of.  To help somebody  they must be the supreme witness of the cosmic universe.  But suppose there is a state where there is no awareness that individual minds and creation exist,  how can help be given ?  To whom it is given.

In short,  only in Turiya it is possible to help individual jivas .  In Turiyatthitha state,  only we the individual souls will have to make a call but neverthless help will be received.

Suppose for example,  you want santa kumars to help you in destroying your karma and attain jnana,  and that you take the initiative and make earnest call,  help will come impersonally from supreme ajata state itself  . 

But Thakur was a rare incarnation where voluntary help for some destined ego minds was required and this particular action Thakur would not have performed if he was in complete no creation Ajata state.

Title: Re: Bhavamukha
Post by: Jyoti on March 29, 2012, 09:21:37 PM
Does that mean Bhagavan cannot help anyone anymore because he did not remain in Bhavamukha?
Title: Re: Bhavamukha
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 30, 2012, 11:59:28 AM
Dear Jyoti,

I am not sure what you mean by Bhagavan? Is it Sri Bhagavan Ramana or God?  As regards Sri Bhagavan Ramana, He has always
said that He is not the body and so even after He had left the body, His Presence, is guiding and gracing people who have faith.
One can either go to the Old Hall in the Asramam and meditate and simply sit in the Samadhi Hall and pray or meditate on Him.
Even if one cannot go to Asramam, you can always invoke His Presence wherever you are, by meditating on Him as an Effulgence
or with a photo (if you feel more comfortable that way). The guidance is sure.

Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Bhavamukha
Post by: Nagaraj on March 30, 2012, 08:56:33 PM
Dear Jyoti,

Bhagavan is calling you, extending his hands to you, only you(we) fail to take notice of it, and, stay put with our mind with own agenda. The mind, says, to Bhagavan who is extending his hands (unconsciously  ;) ) Bhagavan, please wait for some time, i am doing some important analyses. I will sort this out and come to you!

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Bhavamukha
Post by: ksksat27 on April 02, 2012, 09:58:22 AM
Does that mean Bhagavan cannot help anyone anymore because he did not remain in Bhavamukha?


Every divine being had their own mission.  Thakur case is entirely different.  You cannot compare his state with that of Maharishee.

Maharishee is always the Self.  The individual small self venkatraman died in the Maduari house in 1896.  From then on,  Bhagavan is always in no creation state.

The seemingly progress and the experiences devotees had in the physical presence of Bhagavan are all equally unreal and it is equally unreal that actuall you have never asked a question and I have never given a reply.

The so called help ,  grace etc.  are only for the mind but not for the real You.  So in a way,  there is no one to help and no one to receive help either.

Bhagavan Raman is always the perennial self.  What we see when we look at picture of Bhagavan or his physical body when alive is nothing but a mere super imposition of certain concetps of your mind.

It so happened that your mind after attaining a degree of perfection started projecting Bhagavan into your creation --  quite involuntarily,  the Self present in your mind simply projected a outer Guru,  a body and a history for him .  So  believe that Outer Guru and put into practise his teachings.  Or you can also do hare ramana japa.

It is a mystery who is really helping ,  whether the impersonal Self or the outer Guru Ramana, but from experience of many other ego minds in your creation,  it seems help is received.

Every Guru is very very unique.  Every Guru is a mystery.  We can never trace  back the source from which their Grace flows,  only we can get the GRACE and move upon.

So  if you are destined to cross the border line with help of Maharishee you would automatically make a contact with him.  Otherwise, you will move to find another Guru.  All happens as it is .   

All above are revelations after I broke my head with all these doubts for a long time.

The fact is,  a Guru is a mystic.  He will convey a message in a format that is readable only to you,  you alone.  Others cannot appreciate it.  But what I have found is,  please choose only one Guru parampara and focus.

For example I went to Shirdi last week part of a pilgrimage with my mother.  I went to his samadhi and only prayed to get more devotion to my own Guru.  Later when I tried to buy his photograph,  I never could buy one becaue I kept on rejecting one after another.  Finally I walked back,  thinking of my Guru and not taking any photo of Shirdi Sai.

Infact he gave a big push and a big hit -- why are you coming to me when you already have a Guru?  He kicked me back to my Guru.

That is the secret.

So your Guru,  your sadhana and your connection with your Guru -- all are very unique.  No one else can figure it out.

A Guru is a mystery.  He can never be interpreted even by another fully qualified Guru.  There is some mystery behind this Guru.   You cannot resolve it,  only that you can get what you aspired and then move on.  More or less a business deal.  Condition of the deal is you dont leave your Guru.