The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi => Topic started by: srkudai on March 27, 2012, 04:58:32 PM

Title: deleted
Post by: srkudai on March 27, 2012, 04:58:32 PM
Title: Re: How do I live it ?
Post by: Nagaraj on March 27, 2012, 05:14:31 PM
    :) Often, we have this type of question "I know the Teachings of Bhagavan Ramana, but how can I bring them into my life ? how do I bless myself through this teaching ?"

Dear Udai,

Before, we proceed with this, what is 'life' really? what do we mean when we say 'life', what is 'to live' what is living. i felt only then it would make some sense to contemplate about integrating Bhagavans teaching.

we go about speaking so many words unconsciously without even really knowing what they really are and discuss so much about that itself. Such is our predicament! So i felt it is important we get right into the core basics.

We talk about life, without knowing what life is, we talk about living without knowing what living is, we talk about integrating truth into our lives without even knowing what life is. Like this we are merely existing, unconsciously, blindly following what we are being fed. Our unconsciousness is so much that it is as though, if even somebody puts mud in our mouth, we would still eat it,  :D (just humor)

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: How do I live it ?
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 27, 2012, 05:56:59 PM
Dear srkudai,

Sri Bhagavan said in Atma Vidya Kirtanam: Son manadha dhanuvin kanma sirithinre summa amarnthirukka.

That is, without any work in mind, words, and body, just Be.

But we cannot do it. So what can we do? In the words, we can avoid harshness and sweetness towards others.
In mind, we can avoid unnecessary thoughts, in body, we can do karma, with out doership and enjoyership.
Once we can start doing this, at one stage, all sankalpa vikalpas would leave us and we can really be Summa.

It takes a long time and continuous practice is necessary.     

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: How do I live it ?
Post by: Nagaraj on March 27, 2012, 07:39:16 PM
Dear Udai,

As you observed very rightfully, we would be playing just the games of mental gymnastics if we have to discuss elaborately of what life is. In the same way, What do we really need to really integrate into what really? Is there anything really to integrate anything?

You quoted our nature is Avyaya, Abhava, Apuna Chit Sukham, now, does the question about inegrating something into something really required?

If it is so that, we have to integrate into something to realise our self, that is that self incomplete in first place, and by our exercise, are we trying to make something complete? Does the quantity of water in ocean increases when we put some water into it? What is really required is proper discernment of Truth alone and all else is actually deviation.

If one really discerns the truth, then he would really not have any need to exercise something really, because he would realise how insignificant he is, before the truth which is already complete. If we are integrating, then it is simply taking water from ocean and then again pouring it in the same ocean. This would be needless exercise.

The point is, if one truly knows Bhagavan's teachings, a need to bring them to my life would not arise. So there is no question of integration.

We always believe that there is spiritual life and worldly life and we want to strike balance between both. Only if this belief exists, one worries about how to have both, but, really speaking are there two different worlds? such as Spiritual and Practical? Are they not just one and the same?

Unless, the basic question is sorted oout, ie. who am I, all other exercise would only offer temporary relief, tempoary quisance of mind.

The need is Dridha Vratha, Strong determination, Tapas, our utmost sincerity in discerning the truth. If it is truly seen, there is no need to exercise anything at all to it, it is complete as it is. So, what is Life, Life is a crude translation of sanskirit word "Janma" and Janma  is Vyadhi, Janma is disease, Jara Vyadhi, Life is temporary, Life is identified with body alone. Only in perspective of body alone 'life' makes sense. But the entire aim of Vedanta is to free ourselves from this identity with body, free ourselves with this body which has life, therefore this body is only life. What is Life, the false Identification with body is only Life, this only is Janma. Such being the case, our wanting to integrate truth with this life, this body is really mistake. It is like Trishanku Swarga and the needless effort of Vishwaitra to create all new heaven for Trishanku who wanted to go to heaven with his body as it is!

How we have to live, is stated in Dharma Shastras and Smritis. How one conducts ones life, etc... but this has nothing to do with Truth, Self. The quest for Self continues, there is no question of integrating it in life. Janma or Life exists, so long one realises his true nature All Dharma Shastras, apply till one remains in delusion, he who is full of desires, which is the reason for his Janma or life is shown the way ahead as Dharma Artha Kama and finally Moksha, after expending all his karmic desires of life or Janma.

We cant live the Truth, we can only Be the Truth

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: How do I live it ?
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 27, 2012, 07:58:24 PM
Dear srkudai,

I agree with you. All the you have stated are essential.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: How do I live it ?
Post by: Nagaraj on March 27, 2012, 09:22:45 PM
Dear Udai,

if that is so, then the discussion would be nice  :) . I got confused when you conveyed how to live this truth, how to live the teachings of Bhagavan. Because the very meaning of "Jeevanmukti" is freed from life.

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: How do I live it ?
Post by: Nagaraj on March 28, 2012, 09:17:22 AM
Unless one over comes the mental stupor, and see things for their real worth, and, until it hits one really, a sense of intensity urgency to get freed would not arise.

So long, the fear of death strikes, the fear of the unknown strikes, a sense to get get freed would not be really intense.

So long, one does not realise the transient nature of life, relationship, bondages, luxury, etc..., a sense to get freed would not be really intense.

Mostly we are just existing our lives, with a carefree attitude, of just getting up, eat, go to work, eat, chill out, sleep, again, get up, eat, go to work chill out, sleep, again..... some people also have additionally daily rituals, daily worship, but such a worship for satisfying ones own worldly needs are no use, to this!

The state of affairs out here is that even if one wishes to look into the nature of all that is transient, people advise (and our Elders advise;) in the name of their wisdom and experience of having seen life for so many years) "oh, all these, this is not the age for you :D reserve all these for retirement, when you would have looooot of time, then you can pass time with these, now it is your duty to earn money, lot of money, get married, give us grandchildren, preferably a grand son  :D and make us happy, meanwile, we'l go to various pilgrimages to Kailas Manasarovar and other places" and, we too take it blindly out of blind love, bondage, that they are my elders and wish good for me, so I should make them happy, and, struggle our lives, keep contributing new citizens to the nation till the blessed son is born, some, who are very religious, even want son for themselves, so that, after they die, they would get the deserved Pithru Sthanam, and enjoy the tarpanams performed by our sons, after we die  :D , slog our asses to settle in life, save money, get insurance plans, plan and save investments for our children to study abroad, count our balances in bank, save taxes, build our dream houses, decorate it with Italian marbles, conduct a function, invite everybody and show our new achievement and experience the happiness out of other people jealous of your achievements. Every year, conduct nice homas, do Satyanarayana Puja, visit temples, do archanais, if we have some spiritual friends, then learn some shlokas or mantrams and show off our abilities in remembering Rudram without a book in hand  ;D etc... We do all those nonsense's, simply out of mental stupor, and, eventually become the same 'Elders' as described above to our children, endlessly! Drunken mental stupor! Completely shammed living!

One has to question, why am I here? What for am I here, Why am I working? Why am I earning money? What for am I slogging for? Who are all my loved ones really? What am I to them, and Who are they to me, Really? What is my purpose here?

If one truly asks this to oneself and remain unbiased to himself, then the truth will itself begin to show what transience really is! unless, when one truly discerns the nature of all that is transient, intensity would never arise, utmost sincerity would never arise.

We have to question ourselves, why do I want to realise this Self? Is the Self, realising which give me more bliss than what I am currently enjoying? Would it really give me more joy than what i get from my money? Would it really give me more joy than all the great pleasures of this world? Would it give me more joy than my family, my wife and my children? If one truly discerns this, such a one would not get into some dichotomy of managing the Spiritual life and worldly life. It is only because we have this dichotomy that we are scared sometimes about going too deep in spirituality, because, somewhere, one seems to perceive perhaps that "hmm, but still, the happiness i derive from worldly pleasures seems to give me more happiness..." but we oourseles know intuitively within, that, all these are really not permanent, they are bound to disappear any time every Guru has said the Self is most blissful than just anything else, But if we don't acknowledge and suppress this intuitive feeling and blindly keep doing enquiry, and puja, japa, and go on with our mundane existence, etc... and when death strikes to our loves ones, we pray frantically hoping some miracle would happen, then, it would be a huge disappointment, and we would blame our Gods and Gurus, and continue this games once again, make new bondages all over again! One has to discern further, till, one sorts out the dichotomy of worldly happiness and spiritual happiness. The problem is basically, because, even our spiritual experiences are just transient, and we take our spiritual experiences too, as real, and then, the dichotomy continues. "Oh, is that all to this experience spiritually? hmm, i want to enjoy driving a car, i am having enough of this spiritual experience now, I'll come back later to this, but now I want to go for a drive and eat nice Masala Dosa and have some fun, I want to relax"

We are all sailing in such a dichotomy. We want to believe somehow or the other, that what the Sages have said is true, but, without giving sufficient thought to it, and, we just keep moving from here and there, alternatively, for ages, and, take the dichotomy as the natural state, and lose ourselves in this mental stupor! All Sadhana would flourish and bloom only when one is thoroughly convinced with himself that one is really ready to give up everything for the Self, including himself. Such conviction should result, only then, when we sit for Enquiry, the Self would be easily found and we would be really ready to renounce the worldly attachments and accept the Self with fully bloomed heart without any dichotomies!

Even before having a fixed schedule of trying to meditate everyday, and various other things, one should first discern some basic nature of the world that one sees, one must reflect what is his relation and connection with the world that appears before him. It is not necessary to worry if one gets all answers, but the point is, such a reflection should give raise to various questions, which usually, one would not have answers for.

Firefly, wanting to go near light, goes into the fire and loses itself, due to ignorance. In the same way, the way we are leading our lives so unconsciously, is verily similar to that of a firefly!

One has to wake up from sleep, is the first basic requirement, one has to wake up from this sleep as though a dangerous flood is going to wipe you out. One has to first wake up and take shelter in a safe place, that is the feet of a Guru.

Salutations to Bhagavan