The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => General topics => Topic started by: Nagaraj on March 13, 2012, 07:22:29 AM

Title: Handling samsaric problems
Post by: Nagaraj on March 13, 2012, 07:22:29 AM
Everybody gets in to some sort of Samsaric problems and it becomes a cause of worry, deep worry, which may lead to thoughts such as, Oh what did i do now, feeling of guilty, unable to take any decisions, unable to accept reality, unable to do something when you desperately want to do something inorder to help somebody, unable to make somebody understand, and so on....

It helps to keep affirming again and again, that all this is dream, all this is but just a dream. Also reflect that what ever happens is but just a dream, no matter what I do or not, no matter what happens or not - all that happens or not happens is just a dream.

When nothing helps, remember it is nothing but just a dream. When there seems to be no way to escape, then affirm again and again that this is just a dream. All the relatives, fiends, loved ones, all are dream. All sufferings are happening only in dream. Keep affirming again and again, that all is dream.

Respond in a way you would normally do, and affirm again that your responding too, is just a dream!

Automatically, we are reminding ourselves the illusory nature of the universe and the hold on the world is relaxed.

All this is dream. We are that which sees all the dream, who is ever awake!

The more we remind ourselves of that, that is of illusory nature, we are clearing the clouds that seem to hide the ever shining Sun, Self.

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Handling samsaric problems
Post by: Achalam69 on March 13, 2012, 01:44:30 PM
Dear Nagaraj

While it is true that everything is a dream, reinforcing it in our minds that it is only a dream doesn't actually help. I have to quote Sri Sadhu OM here who states that "As the world itself is mind projected, how much ever you tell the mind that the world is a dream, it wont accept". (How would it accept its own creation as false). It actually makes sense. As long as incidents happen to someone else we can say it is a dream, like 100 soldiers died somewhere, we can brush it off, saying it is a dream, but when it is comes to our "I" and "Mine", like my daughter, my bank money, telling the mind that it is just a dream wont work. If anyone has tried and found successful please share.

We need to come back to the core practice of Self Enquiry or Self Attention only to get over this illusion as the illusion's kingpin lies in our sense of "I", unless that is pulled off or dissolved the illusion will continue strongly.

Title: Re: Handling samsaric problems
Post by: cefnbrithdir on March 13, 2012, 04:25:15 PM

Dear Achalam

I greatly appreciate Nagaraj's words.  Your final paragraph is also fine but do we not for the time being  wander back and forth between being  more centred away from  our minds and then less so. And when less so we can become agitated.

Theology is useful but can be  confusing as to where is its own centre of gravity.  Coming from a Christian perspective, a theology that is so  "Self" centred has been immensely  helpful.

  However the mind can be helped and satisfied by the conceptions and knowledge of  what has been experienced, if only temporarily, at a deeper level where ultimately theology ceases to exist.
That can help us back into focus  " a single eye" and further experience.

That all is a dream outside the Self and Annamalai Swami's advice to continue to remember  that we are not separate - even when we become agitated into thinking we are- are great props along the way.

Title: Re: Handling samsaric problems
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 13, 2012, 04:51:58 PM
Dear Achalam,

All Samsara is in mind. Even on the death of her husband, a wife cries inconsolably and bending her face, she sleeps over
the corpse for some time. During her sleep, where is her husband? Where is her misery and pain and sorrow? All are gone
because mind is gone in deep sleep. In the early mind, when she wakes up, she again cries inconsolably. Sushupti is a good
medicine. Even a terminal cancer patient, when he gets a few hours of sleep, say with morphine, he sleeps blissfully.

Hence when one conquers the mind and ego, three is no samsara. Samsara is not external, it is internal. All due to mind.

Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Handling samsaric problems
Post by: Nagaraj on March 14, 2012, 07:11:20 AM
Dear Friends,

Affirming the world and happenings to be just a dream is not simply mere words. It is reminding oneself again, about the nature of the world. It reminds one to enquire, pause for a moment and brings you to reflect for a moment. The reflection that all is but a dream should free you from the strangle hold of Samsara, this reflection should free you from stranglehold of various bondages, from strangle hold of various doerships and free you from the grip of ownership of I, Me, mine, etc..

We are all running here and there madly in our life, in the name of various duties and responsibilities and unrealistic goals, unrealistic relationships and we are seeking happiness from transient world and materials.

Even though the world continues to appear, if one truly knows it is just a dream, he will remain at poise, so when one sees a water body, he remains quiet patiently knowing it to be just a mirage.

This way, one does not get bound by illusion, but continues to act like a lotus in water. Like this, knowing it to be just a dream, just respond, it does not matter what happens in dream, whether you suffer or see somebody suffering, or whether you are being squeezed by somebody, burden of life and karma, etc,, what ever happens, i am fine with it, its all just dream, what maters what happens or not? I will just stick to my Dharma. This much I can act. After all, it is just dream, let hell fall down or let heavens come to my lap, I am not going to take it as real, for a dream is just a dream, it can never be real!

We who get affected by various problems in our day to day affairs, get lost, and get agitated and disturbed and constantly worry about what is to happen or not to happen, what to do or not to do, etc...

But to worry about not being able to abide in peace is good, but the same worry about worldly affairs is bad. When you worry about not being able to be at peace will take you upwards, but worrying about worldly affairs will only bring you down.

Be troubled that you are unable to realise your self, not able to feel the ambrosia of the Almight, this is Bhakti but, do not be troubled what happens around you in the world, this is Vibhakti.

Lets recollect Bhagavans words once again "The waking state also is equivalent to a dream, only that the Waking is long and a dream is short; other than this there is no difference. Just as waking happenings seem real while awake, so do those in a dream while dreaming"

In the end, when one truly discerns all to be just a dream, it is only Self Enquiry. At least begin in some way or the other. Let the agitations drop, if it helps by affirming that all that you are seeing and experiencing is just a dream, it is very good, Let the hot water which is disturbed cool down, when it is cooled, then one may go deeper. But, when the water itself is so hot, what deep enquiry is possible?

In day to day affairs, one can possibly not do pranayama in midst of crises, therefore, employ ways by which you may uplift yourself, Uddharet Atmanaatmanam (you are your own friend, uplift yourself by your own self) We all get into situations, not knowing what to do, we press panic button, no matter how much we have read and learnt about Bhagavan and his teachings. It is because somewhere, deep within, you believe the external world and the problems of life, samsara to be so real, and get lost or go astray. It is wise to therefore affirm again and again and once again, that all is dream, no matter, what you do, what you don't do, no matter what happens or not happens, etc...

Whether you believe it yet or not, all is just dream. Our believing or realising is not going to change the reality, the world is still illusion, unreal. Illusion doesn't become real simply because we believe it to be real. Therefore, friends, realise this discernment and affirm again and again, with confidence that all is just a dream. Relax

I would like to convey that this has, is helped me very much.

Shankara roared, Brahma Satyam, Jagan Mithya.

So this is after all nothing new.

We have to remind ourselves that Maya is truly Maya  ;) ironical! But so True!

We say everything is maya, agreed, but.......

We have to remove the BUT in between, this but is only Maya.

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Handling samsaric problems
Post by: ksksat27 on March 14, 2012, 09:43:31 AM
Shri Nagaraj is very much inclined towards pure jnana nowadays.

Myself being a predominant bhaktha most of the time ,  sometimes get angry with his jnana affirmations --   :)

Maha maya is very powerful atleast to me.   The nirvana experience is very secretly hidden by her and reserved only for the genuine jnanis or bhakthas.

Rest all are simply and summarily rejected and need to wait in another queue in next life.

Title: Re: Handling samsaric problems
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 14, 2012, 10:54:04 AM
Dear Krishnan,

Why is this frustration?  Who is Maha Maya?
She is your mother and my mother too. She is the Mother of all.  Pray to Her in the form of Azhagamma or Sharadamma. She will
show you the way. If a mother is not giving food to the child, it is because, the child is not well. When the child gets well,
she gives good food with ghee and dhal.  Do not worry.

Om Vidyavidya (vidya + avidya) swarupini!
She is Knowledge and she is ignorance too.

Simpy pray to Her, the divine Mother. Things will fall in place.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Handling samsaric problems
Post by: Achalam69 on March 15, 2012, 02:48:04 PM
Dear Nagaraj and Subramanian

Thanks for the excellent replies. I truly agree that life is a dream (Thank god it is a dream). Each person is different as we all bring in different karma packages to exhaust in this life. The point i was trying to make is that Self Enquiry is a way to understand that life is a dream and not the reverse.

To take up Subramaniam's point. Can we tell the wife who is crying for her husband's death that life is a dream, so you dont worry, however much you convince yourself, unless the mind subsides in self enquiry it offers little help.

Things like hunger, anger, pain caused by diseases or the death of a near and dear one keep happening to us. They just dont seem to go away by telling the mind that life is a dream, even though that is the truth.

I am fully aware that whether i accept it or not, life is just a dream, but how do we get there, the solidity of the world (if i bang my head on the wall, the pain tells me the truth) baffles us.

I guess as matured Bagavan devotees, we are both talking about the same subject from two different angles. Thanks for this forum and members for allowing me to share 'my' view point.

Title: Re: Handling samsaric problems
Post by: Nagaraj on March 15, 2012, 04:21:21 PM
Dear Achalam,

I take some liberty to go through your very valid points for mutual contemplation :) for everybody.

you said,

"Can we tell the wife who is crying for her husband's death that life is a dream, so you dont worry, however much you convince yourself, unless the mind subsides in self enquiry it offers little help."

I contemplate, do we need to remind the wife that all is dream, or do we need to remind ourselves? The discernment is that, it is us who needs the reminder that all is dream, it would be grave mistake on our part to advise some 'other' that this is all dream, it is perhaps like trying to tell a sleeping person that all is dream. One of the biggest impediments in spiritual sadhana is wanting our loved ones also to realise along with us, we have to discern that this requirement is impossible. This is Bandham, bondage. Discern that the wife crying for her husband's death is dream, so that oneself, ie. you don't get carried away by emotions seeing the death of a person who happens to be the husband of the crying woman. We need to strengthen ourselves first and foremost, before we get carried away  by the sway of huge drama that is going on on the screen of dream. Affirm ourselves that this is dream, yet, let me console the lady, offer her what ever help I can, what ever prayers I could do. Do Dharma, do your Swadharma, knowing it to be dream. By this discernment, we automatically, involuntarily are acting as per the dictum of Sri Krishna in BG, to just act and not bother about the fruits of your action.

Once we affirm and strengthen ourselves, that this is dream, you will just act, to console the lady, and help her, but not worry about what happens, whether your helping the lady and the family will be of any use, you will not worry, for inwardly you will keep affirming that this dream, it doesn't matter what happens, for this is all just dream, but I just act, as per the Dharmic injunctions.

The point of focus is just oneself. There is no place for an other here! Sure, we just know that all is dream, and, it is not the end, we just know that it is a mirage. Know that all is dream and just fulfil your duties. Know that it is dream and console the wife who has just lost her husband. In this awareness, knowing everything to be just dream, we will recognise and just speak those words that the other want, words of consoling. If the demand from nature is to arrange for food, just arrange for it, and so on. This is only just doing your duty, doing ones swadharma. Even knowing everything to be just dream, still function, just for the sake of Karma alone. Because, you happen to be there, in this dream, you don't know why and what am I doing here in this dream. But any which way since I am present, Let me act now, and, later I need to contemplate on this - "What am I here for? if this is dream? Who am I" reserve this question for a later, and just act now - Constant reflection! This way one remains untouched, even though in midst of life full of karmas and bondages.

Discerning all is just dream, doesn't mean that one should stop feeling hungry, stop getting angry, stop getting pain caused by diseases. These are just our own making! It becomes, further a bigger reason to keep affirming that this pain that I am feeling is also dream, the feel the pain is also a dream, I can feel the hunger, and this feel of hunger also is dream, yet again, just act, feed your body with food, when the body asks, treat the wound when the body is hurt with requisite medication. But by being aware that all is dream, and you are just acting once again, rather being made to act. Do not take doership here, that I feed my body, I nourish by body, I care my body. Your action is natural, when the wind blows the leaves move. when you feel hungry, eat. Remember your eating is also a dream. Affirm, that this body, that I am seeing is not me, this body is just dream. when it demands some thing, consider it just like the lady who cries for the loss of her husband, when body asks for food, provide it with food, when it is in need of something, take care of it. Your body is also dream, which demands food. when the body cries for food, provide food, in the same spirit as you have consoled the lady who lost her husband. with complete awareness that all is dream!

When one acts like this, one can never do anything wrong. Dharmo Rakshati Rakshatah. Dharma helps those who follow it.

Act, with awareness as how Bhagavan says in Ulladu Naarpadu Anubandham 27:

Seeming to have enthusiasm and delight, seeming to have excitement and aversion, seeming to exercise initiative and perseverance, and yet without attachment, play, O hero, in the world. Released from all bonds of attachment and with equanimity of mind, acting outwardly in all situations in accordance with the part you have assumed, play as you please, O hero, in the world.

At the end, when the mind calms down, from all the above drama, after fulfilling all your Karmas, reflect, enquire deep, what is all this, who am I? Where is all the action that took place some time back now? it is all over, the lady who cried for her husband is tired and sleeping, and she does not remember about the death of her husband while sleeping, what is all this? that happens when not in deep sleep, who is all this, and, who am I?

Like this Sort out the issues one by one. The point is when we keep reminding ourselves that all is dream, end of the day, instead of reflecting like this, we will be worrying about the Lady, "Oh, poor lady, how is she going to manage her life, how is she going to bring her daughter up, how can she provide for her family, her brothers are so bad, she has no money, etc..." such thoughts are futile, such thoughts spring from ignorance and believing the happenings to be true. But if we have genuinely affirmed with reflection as we did our Swadharma, then end of the day, the mind would be calm and poised in quietness which becomes an ideal platform for you to reflect deeply.

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Handling samsaric problems
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 15, 2012, 05:08:08 PM
Dear Achalam,

You can definitely tell a wife who has lost her husband that everything is a dream. Any dhukkam does not stand for long.
It will slowly disappear. No one can  catch a particular dhukkam for a life time. For example I do not cry about my father who
died in 2003, every day.  When such dhukkam wanes and finally disappears, one can surely give them the insight that everything is
a dream. However Sri Bhagavan said this immediately. Because He was a Jnani, His words were powerful and they gave
relief to devotees immediately.  When a monkey was killed, to the wailing monkeys, who grouped themselves and complained
to Sri Bhagavan, in Pachaimamman Kovil, He told them that these are all dreams. The story says that the monkeys became

Arunachala Siva.           
Title: Re: Handling samsaric problems
Post by: Nagaraj on March 17, 2012, 08:18:56 AM
The divine life [of abiding as Self] alone is the life of supreme reality. On the other hand, life in the world which is seen, is a life of delusion. What an illusion [maya] it is to live a life of fear [fearing death]. Is not that [life of fear] merely [one's] drowning in the play of the mind-illusion?

(Guru Vachaka Kovai, 1095)

Salutations to Bhagavan