The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => General topics => Topic started by: ksksat27 on March 06, 2012, 05:31:02 PM

Title: one pointed sadhana
Post by: ksksat27 on March 06, 2012, 05:31:02 PM
Sometime before Nagaraj replied that he does all types of sadhana for  a questio by me:

"I do everything, Vichara, Bhakti, Japa, Puja, Parayana, meditation, contemplation.... and may be something more too, I dont know! i think it is wise to not differentiate between all these. When I am unable to abide in peace, I just look at Bhagavan or imagine his form and seek warmth, or I chant vedas and seek warmth from the vibations of Mantras or if not this, I do little Japa and try to assimilate the essence of Japa, or seek some solace in contemplation or just meditate, or simply Be, without any thought movement but aware... or even contemplate on some kirthanas, i like that of Sadasiva Brahmendras specially and some songs specially... or i contemplate on the lives of Sri Rama, Sri Krishna, little from Mahabharatha, Ramayana... Upanishads, Puranas, etc... sometimes, tamil scriptures too."

I think many of we devotees,  just do this.  We do all forms of sadhana ,  not only that we visit many Gurus and saints web sites.

Even if only one Guru,  we have many Gurus under that Parampara.

Even if we have only one Ishta deity,  we still worship many other deities.

Even if we practice self enquiry,  we do many number of other things as well.

Our mind otherwise gets bored or choked or gets more heated or runs away severely , even if we prefer to stick to one type of sadhana.

Though I dont in any way criticize this approach,  there is a doubt that comes to me.

No matter how we beautifully justify our mixed jam sadhana which is also combined with many many materila desires and fears,  we forget one point.

Those who has realized Atman,  take Ramana Maharshi or Annamalai Swami or Nisarghadatta Maharaj or Papaji or Lakshmana swamy or Saradamma or Meera Bhai or Thirujnana sambandhar or Thayumanavar or Tukaram Maharaj or Badrachala Ramadas or Sri Andaal or Sri Annamacharya --   many of these people just sticked only to one form of sadhana.

They never cared for other methods.  Also they never got this boredom we feel or the heat we feel due to the forceful engagement only in one form of sadhana.

My question arise from that perspective:  Why is this so?  Why the successful realization is almost always preceded by just only one form of sadhana?  (excepting Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Sarada devi I dont know any other saint who did this jam of many sadhanas prior to realization)

Are we missing something? Are we just relaxing in outward consciousness by frequently jumping here and there?  Or we are not reall capable of this one pointed sadhana?

Why this mind just cannot take only one Guru and his form and rest in peace totally surrendering to him everything? 

Why we always look forward to express ourselves constantly,  to entertain this intellect with all this variety of questions?  Why we just move here and there without subsiding at one place?

Muruganar --  when anandamayi ma came , he never saw her at Ramansramam.  And I believe Anandamayi maa woudl be happiest to hear this --  somebody just not bothered about any other person than his Guru and his teachings.  why not we get that attitude?

We have made the whole Self into a cable TV --  Remote controlling between different channels without staying at a point.

I really really like to do that type of one pointed surrender to my Guru ,  but I just could not.

Please come up with your opinions on this.

Title: Re: one pointed sadhana
Post by: Nagaraj on March 06, 2012, 05:45:46 PM
Shankara Sings in Vivekachoodamani,

Chittasya shudhaye karma na tu vasthoopalabdhaye
Vasthu siddhir vicharena na kinchit karma kotibhih

Actions are for purification of the mind alone and not for realization or knowledge of an existing entity. Vasthu or knowledge about an existing entity (realization of the only existing entity which is Brahman) is achieved through ENQUIRY alone and not through thousands of karma.

Upanishads Sings,

न कर्मणा न प्रजया धनेन त्यागेनैके अमृतत्वमानशुः

Na Karmana Na Prajaya Dhanena Thyagenaike Amriatvamanashuh

Deathlessnes is not obtained through action, or begetting offspring, or wealth. Immortality is attained only through renunciation.

Therefore, Krishnan, Sadhana does not result one to get emancipation, sadhana is just to purify ones mind. Sadhana is not some set of steps that leads to realisation.

It cannot be said that it is because of Sadhana saints attained Realisation. Realisation happens beyond even Sadhana and Realisation is not some Kaarana Kaaryam effect, It is not a formula, which, if one does perfectly, one attains enlightenment. Realisation is acausal, it does not happen because of some cause or some effort.

Now, when one does ones sadhana without Phala Apeksha, without desiring for fruits, of, emancipation, what the sadhana does is remove the clouds that hides the Sun, Sun does not disappear behind the clouds.

If it was so, that, if one does so much Sadhana, one automatically gets realisation, then, there would have been many thousands of realized people in the world. It is not so.

One may be doing vigorous Sadhana but still could be very far off compared to an ordinary layman who does nothing, no sadhana, no prayers, nothing!

the Sun does not require to light itself up, it is already illuminating. So what is Sadhana really? Sadhana is only ignorance. We are all doing various Sadhanas only out of ignorance. We will do Sadhana so long we remain ignorant.

There is no Sadhana if one sees who he really is.

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: one pointed sadhana
Post by: Nagaraj on March 06, 2012, 06:12:11 PM
and moreover Krishna, Just knowing is insufficient, one has to attain complete Nishta ie NIRVIKALPA SAHAJA SAMADHI

Very few to my own limited eyes had that complete Atma Nishta, and, that too constantly Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi.

To my mind when I seek who was in such complete, Nishta, Only Bhagavan and Chandrashekhara Bharathi Swamigal of Sringeri come to my mind immediately. Others were great saints, but when I see, that Atma Nishta, only these both come to my mind. They were both Avadhootas, beyond any ashramas, they are beyond our grasp!

I have read not much aboout Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. But he surely was in comple Atma Nishata Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: one pointed sadhana
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 06, 2012, 07:10:29 PM
Dear krishnan,

All Sadhanas like devotional prayers, japa, puja are only for chitta suddhi. They do not directly take one to the goal that is,
Self Realization. One can do all these along with self inquiry or self surrender.  Sri Bhagavan Himself has told these to many
devotees, vide some conversations in Talks.

As regards Guru, one guru is the most important thing. You cannot have many gurus. Fortunately for Sri Bhagavan's
there is no guru parampara. He is the Lone Star of the Sky. That makes the devotee's job easier. But there could be
kula gurus, like Kanchi Math, for my family. But I do not go and see those two pontiffs.  In case you accidentally come
across them, you may prostrate to them thinking you are prostrating to Sri Bhagavan. Even this Sri Bhagavan has affirmed
to Kunju Swami.

As regards gods, in the Hindu pantheon there are many gods. One cannot do away with all of them. It takes time. But one
can keep an Ishta Devata and pray to Him more than to others. My ishta devata is Siva. All gods are Siva Swarupam only -
says Guru Gita. But I can chant Narayneeyam or Tiruppugazh or Vishnu Sahasranamam or Abhirami Andati or Vinayakar Ahaval,'
without any qualms in my mind, since all gods are Siva Swarupam only.

All doubts arise because of ego in the beginning. Slowly as you progress, you will find harmony in the whole Sadhana in spite of
apparent discordance.

Arunachala Siva.           
Title: Re: one pointed sadhana
Post by: Nagaraj on March 07, 2012, 06:39:52 AM
Krishnan, you mentioned that saints like Sambandhar, Thayumanavr, etc... performed just one sadhana and attained liberation, in this context, i would like to share with you this incident  -

One day a lady who was well versed in classical music and who was also proficient in playing the Veena , came up with a question to Bhagavan.

“Bhagavan is it possible to attain liberation through music alone or would other spiritual practices be required,?" the lady asked.

Bhagavan remained silent as if to reveal the stillness of the Atman where no music can penetrate.

The lady, unable to understand Bhagavan's silence further queried, “Did not Saint Thyagaraja and other saints attain moksha by singing the praises of God?"

A smile broke forth from Bhagavan. He said,

"Avaallaam, Adayarthukaaga Paadalai, Adanjada paadinaa"

“Thyagaraja and the others did not attain Moksha through their songs but from the ecstasy that sprang forth from within as a result of their realisation of the ultimate. Their songs were just an expression of their blissful state. This was the reason why their music stood the test of time. This is what is called as 'Nadopanishad!"

The astonished lady prostrated to Bhagavan and said, “Bhagavan all these days I have been living with my own misinterpretation of facts and mistaken beliefs. You have illumined me. My doubts have dispelled and my mind is clear and free!"

Moreover, Krishnan, Subramanian Sir,

It is not about what Sadhana we do, how many Sadhanas we do, whether it one or many, it is all only about the BHAVA, behind what ever one does. Sadhana itself is nothing, it is BHAVAM, that is more important. Krishna has said in the Gita:

पत्रम् पुष्पम् फलम् तोयम् यो मे भक्त्या प्रयच्छति।
तस्याहम् न प्रणस्यामि स च मे न प्रणस्यति॥

patram puspam phalam toyam
yo me bhaktyä prayacchati
tad aham bhakty-upahrtam
asnämi prayatätmanah

whosoever offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, a fruit or water, I will accept it.

here, Krishna does not mean literally, a leaf or a flower or water or fruit or some thing like these, he means the insignificance of what is given, that is, he clearly says that THE INTENTION AND PURITY AND THE BHAAVAM is what counts. The actions are nothing. Sadhana is not something particular. Anybody can do anything, work becomes a Sadhana, any act, what ever, the act itself is not important but the way it awakes one within, the love of God just for Love alone. That alone counts.

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: one pointed sadhana
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 07, 2012, 12:44:35 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. This bhava or intense feeling, is important. It confers chittasuddhi.  Parabhakti includes  service to God, like what
Tiru Navukkarasar or Nandanar did. Tiru Navukkarasar was always carrying a spade with him and he removed the weeds
that are growing between stone slabs in the temples.  Nandanar sold the animal skin for making temple drums.

Saiva Siddhantam speaks four types of activities towards god. Sariyai - means pure bhakti, Kiriyai means temple service in
great love to God, like plucking flowers, making garlands, using a spade to remove the weeds, drawing water from temple
tank or well for abhishkekam etc., Yogam  means yoga sadhana. Jnanam means self inquiry or self surrender. 

Arunachala Siva.