The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi => Topic started by: Anand on September 11, 2011, 04:56:32 PM

Title: Surrender , how to go about it gradually.
Post by: Anand on September 11, 2011, 04:56:32 PM
dear friends,
I am not able to have a clear idea of the concept of surrender  and how to co-relate it  to modern day living where we are under pressure to perform both professionally and also personally in enhancing the lives of our family members along with ourselves.
Requesting some guidance on how can develop gradual surrender in our life i.e in a progressive manner with practical guidance for real life situations both personally and professionally .How we can let go and develop the habit of surrender?I would also like to know what the initial impediments to this path are and also what are the most difficult impediments in this path and what are the ways to we overcome them .
Title: Re: Surrender , how to go about it gradually.
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 11, 2011, 07:29:37 PM

Dear Anand,

Surrender in totality is submission of our ego to the God or Guru and leaving
everything to Him. Sri Bhagavan used to say Nin ishtam, En ishtam.
Thy wish is my wish.  But this is difficult to start with. So start with partial
 surrender. Ask for worldly benefits to  Him and surrender for attaining
these. Slowly, you will yourself feel, 'why should I ask such simple worldly
things? I should ask for permanent devotion and liberation at the end of
my life.'.  This will take some time. When you reach that, it is  total
self surrender. Submit your jiva to Him. Jiva is nothing but ego.

Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Surrender , how to go about it gradually.
Post by: ksksat27 on September 13, 2011, 01:22:06 AM
Dear Anand,

In every path the impediments will start increasing, as you increase your momentum of your sadhana.

Reason is , mind will start re-belling.   This applies to surrender as well.

But with surrender the devotion will be there.  That will put a check on the raising ego,  this is the main merit of this method.

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says that in bhakthi, there is no risk of ego raising as it is in jnana sometimes.

In jnana marga, sometimes atheistic buddhi will come.  That also is not there in Bhakthi , Thakur says.

It is better, to do both surrender and vichara.

But 99% of we people, we will surrender to Ramana to protect us, when we face material danger.  There is nothing wrong in it.

Your Guru will only protect you, take you out of the mental lock you have created for yourself. Nobody else.

Sivaprakasam Pillaia says God will forgive only three times the sins.  Not more than that.

But in my humble opinion, this does not apply to Guru.  Guru will forgive as many sins,  he will wait until you are ripe.

Whoever has come to Bhagavan, it is never a waste,  even a single thought.

Lakshmana Swamy changed only Hare Ramana after he met his Guru.  He did not do vichara.

In his final moments before liberation,  automatically vichara came into his mind. But for Saradamma this even was not present.  Nirvikalpa samadhi came to her, quite uninvited.

So that is the point.

Chant Hare Ramana.   The japa will itself show the right way.
Title: Re: Surrender , how to go about it gradually.
Post by: Child of Arunachala on September 13, 2011, 05:38:00 AM
Surrender will happen gradually.  Do a lot of japam, seva and donate a portion of your income regularly (not that Bhagawan and Arunachala need your money) but it will help to draw grace towards you for surrender to happen.  It is amazing when it happens.
Title: Re: Surrender , how to go about it gradually.
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 13, 2011, 03:07:35 PM

Dear Anand, Child of Ramana,

Surrender in totality will not come about in one day.  The ego is always
rebellious. Hence one should develop devotion to Guru or God, and then
this ardent devotion will become surrender.  First it could be for rewards.
But in due course, it will be devotion for devotion sake, love for love sake,
and surrender for surrender sake. You will start feeling that you should
not ask anything from Guru or God but should take as it comes from Him.

Again, Child of Ramana, there is no need to give donation etc,. to
Sri Ramanasramam.  If you can afford you can do it. There were Englishmen
who built cottages for their use and when they returned to their home, they
left for Asramam's use. Such great donation, if you can afford, you can do.
But whenever we go to Sri Ramanasramam, stay in their guestrooms,
and eat in Asramam, then naturally, we should contribute a good amount
to Sri Ramanasramam.  This at least, everyone should do.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Surrender , how to go about it gradually.
Post by: Nagaraj on September 14, 2011, 03:10:25 PM
Dear Anand,

Surrender is not gradual. It happens just once. There is no concept to Surrendering. If we have some residue concept or idea to surrender then it only means we have still not been able to surrender yet, we are unable to let go our "FREE WILL"

What is there to surrender really? what is it that we need to surrender? What is being surrendered? What is it that is aspired to be surrendered? When we reflect on these questions very carefully, we can discern that its our interpreting mind which is required to be surrendered. That which is expressing itself out is aspiring to surrender!

It leads us to a slightly paradoxical understanding! When we see into the question as to what it is that needs to be surrenderd, we see that it is the very thing that is wanting to surrender, trying to surrender itself! the very agent that is asking this question! it is the thinking agent - the mind! It is this thinking stuff - mind that needs to be surrendered!

So when we say phrases such as "I want to surrender", "How to Surrender?" etc...

We are identifying ourselves as the mind extended as body. Rope is seen as Snake by mistake. we are asking how to kill the snake, how to take off the snake. The snake cannot be surrendered or killed! It is really non existent! The presence of snake was only mistake! As in the unreality of snake cannot be destroyed or surrenderd. Its a Discernment or a Recognition. Similalrly Surrendering is only simple Discernment or Recognition of the Truth and LIVING WITH THIS DISCERNEMENT AND RECOGNITION ALWAYS.

Upon enquiry and after discernement, after recognition, it is found that it is only rope that always existed and a snake never existed in first place. It was just Avidya or Ignorance or Darkness or a MIrage! Like how we can never destroy darkness, and in the Light of Recognition, there is no more darkness. "Astoma Sadgamaya" (Lead me from Darkness to Light) In the end it is only a "recognition" of the Truth. Upon this recognition, there is nothing more to do.

We are trying to kill a snake that never existed! Similarly, our desire to surrender is exactly the same. The more effort we put in surrendering, we fail but the moment we recognise this understanding, this discernment leads us to surrender. TRUE RECOGNITION IS SURRENDERING.

Bhagavan says enquire into the source of this mind and he says it will not exist and only Self will be found to exist.

In Guruvachaka Kovai, Bhagavan says -

Like the offering of a bit of jaggery, taken off from Lord Ganesa made of jaggery, is the offering of one's own self to God. Is there any entity called the self, apart from Him? (Guru Ramana Vachana Mala, 111)


Finally, All the above beautiful discernments, knowledge has to be be put to test of the fire of the razor's edge.

The beauty of books lies not in the shelf but it lies on the person reading the book and assimilating the contents of it and by living by it!

Vedas say - "Satyam Vada, Dharma Chara" "Speak only Truth, Lead only Dharmic path" If we keep chanting this Vedic mantra with proper Swara but if we are unable to live it, then its like a donkey carrying huge loads of Sandal Wood.

Even after knowing this Truth, even after this discernment, the reality for each one of us would be very different. The Real task is all about LIVING the TRUTH and here all knowledge is just as good as a Donkey carrying a bundle of Sandal wood.

Its a tough task. Requires Enormous sincerity in our intention. What is the use of knowledge if we are unable to put use of it? Just knowing is not enough, what is important is LIVING THE KNOWLEDGE, LIVING THE DISCERNMENT, LIVING THE TRUTH and this simultaneously leads us to absolute Surrender or Sharanagati.

The only Free Will we seem to have is only to chose to abide as Self, WE HAVE FREE WILL TO SURRENDER, lest it is affected by our mind and ego.

Sad Guru Paahi Paahi

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Surrender , how to go about it gradually.
Post by: Nagaraj on September 14, 2011, 03:31:04 PM
Adding a couple of more thoughts for our daily practical life.

If we carefully look at people and are able to discern, recognise as to why they are like the way they are seen, then we can clearly see their insecurities, lack of love, lack of care, fears etc...

If we are able to discern these aspects in other humans then we are truly human beings. Suppose we are able to recognise that somebody is actually very insecure and thats why the are cranky, then discernment and surrendering is not to go and tell them "Dont feel insecure and give them loads of empty advise" but to "live and make them feel secure without words"  Supose a person is depressed, then instead of telling them "dont be depressed in life" just holding their hands in their journey of life is Living the Truth, Recognition. Responding instead of Reacting after proper recognition and discernment is Surrendering!

Really feel each and every word of what we say Truthfully is Tapas.

सत्यम् ब्रूयात् प्रियम् ब्रूयात् न ब्रूयात् सत्यमप्रियम् |
प्रियम् नानृतं ब्रूयात् एष धर्मः सनातनः ||

satyam bruyat priyam bruyat na bruyat satyam apriyam
priyam ca nanrutam bruyat esha dharmah sanatanah

Speak truth in such a way that it should be pleasing to others. Never speak truth, which is unpleasant to others. Never speak untruth, which might be pleasant. This is the path of eternal morality, sanatana dharma.

Showing kindness after such discernment and not REACTING without proper recognition or discernment  is True Surrendering in LIFE.

If we are clearly able to see TRUTH in everybody, with the wisdom of Recognition and Discernment then we will easily be able to FORGIVE people for their histrionics and for their behavior and instead of reacting with anger, if we are able to respond with love and compassion, then we become light for many people.

What people want is just care, love, compassion, no matter who, our family or our bosses at work or any street urchin. Anybody!

and instead of solving our daily problems, if we are able to fill it with love and compassion, most problems themselves get solved. Its only when we use our freewill in the name of correcting situations and people that leads to dissatisfaction and friction. People dont want advise, they want LOVE, Compassion, Care. This is Recognition/Discernment Surrendering our Free will to solve people or advise people or say to people what they did was wrong or what they did was right.

This wisdom is recognition of the weakness in the other and letting go of our own truth for a bigger cause. We may be true but we should not hold on to "our truth" like a leach. Let go our victory sometimes for others is surrendering.

Love is a Divine Healer. Bhagavan's unsullied love was/is such a balm for everybody to their bosom heart!

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Surrender , how to go about it gradually.
Post by: Hari on September 14, 2011, 04:10:54 PM
Must we surrender to a Ishta Devata? Can we surrender to the One Almighty God which all scriptures call Ishvara without name and form? Many Hindus say that this kind of worship cannot help you to become Self-realized because only "personal" God can give you liberation?
Title: Re: Surrender , how to go about it gradually.
Post by: Nagaraj on September 14, 2011, 04:18:47 PM
Dear ramana1359,

Surrender to any God, personal or impersonal or Saguna Brahman or Nirguna Brahman if that act leads you live virtuously and wisely and helps you to curb ego or work of our minds.

That Surrender also means not even having the desire for liberation as well !

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Surrender , how to go about it gradually.
Post by: Subramanian.R on September 14, 2011, 08:17:04 PM

Dear Nagaraj,

I have to differ from you in the sense that desiring the Self is the
only desire one should have, according to Sri Bhagavan. David
Godman has written a detailed note on this in his blog about
a year back.

Again in the matter of surrender, Sri Bhagavan has also permitted
partial surrender to begin with, in case one cannot surrender totally.
We are not born saints to do the total surrender immediately. So
ordinary people like us can start with partial surrender, which in course
of time becomes devotion for devotion sake, which is total self surrender,
where the ego is submitted to God or Guru.

Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Surrender , how to go about it gradually.
Post by: Nagaraj on September 15, 2011, 07:06:45 AM
Dear Subramanian Sir,

Yes, I have read about this Bhagavan's statement of desiring the Self. But without this one cannot be Bhagavan's devotee or even more one cannot come into spirituality. Without this desire one cannot be here doing vichara. So this desire is already there in everybody. But eventually one has to give up even this desire; Give Up even that for Bhagavan. Sharanagati Bhavam,, complete Sharanagati Bhavam; Thou Will alone; doesn't matter even if I mave have to take 100 more janmams but with complete Sharanagati to Thou Holy Feet.

and Yes, Bhagavan has talked about Parial Surrender. To begin with each of us has no other option but this. Its Automatic along with desiring the Self.

Till we realise and are able to Abide as Self each of us is able to only partially Surrender. Complete Surrendering is Realisation of Self, Abidance as Self. in This way, Surrender is just only once, Final Surrender and all surrendering before this is all partial. Until this, we are still caught up with ourselves and being in the company of Bhagavan etc... Spiritual inclinations, etc.. are all acts of partial Surrender.

These are no planned efforts. "avan arulal avan thal vananki" Only if He wills will we be able to Surrender.

Bhagavan also has mentioned that after a certain point, we have nothing more in our hands, where all efforts cease. It is all upto HIM then. Then we will begin  to get the Bhavam such as not even desiring Self but just Thou.

Nochur Acharyal, in his pravachanams has also mentioned about this topic on how many devotees considered even Self Realisation lesser than being with the feeling of presence of Bhagavan, He used to say that some devotees feel so deeply "who even wants Aatmanubhavam? I want only Bhagavan alne and nothing else"

Salutations to Bhagavan