The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => General topics => Topic started by: ksksat27 on August 08, 2011, 02:14:33 PM

Title: a practical advise need from all
Post by: ksksat27 on August 08, 2011, 02:14:33 PM
Dear all,

Anand Sharma asked few questions on counsellling services.

Today I am going to ask you about worly duties and sadhana.  How to balance them.

We have read time and again many talks of Ramana where he says that work is not hindrance and we need to do that work without the feeling of doership.  Sometimes he compares discharging office duty as a painless and doershipless thing and advised devotees to adopt similar attitude in family household work also.

When Ramana was there,  many people who visited him were having the complex less clerical jobs or school teacher jobs or Public Sector jobs or anything for that matter -- but in 1940s these jobs were not as complex as the current day trend , esp. IT jobs.

Now in the current scenario of hecitc IT jobs, the constant threat of Recession etc.  no matter what amount of time you put in your work,  still there is scope and importance to put some more time into your job.

This is where my mother comes from .   She observes me work 5 days a day, ofcourse working hard, returning home,  but then she finds me engaged in self enquiry, ribhu gita, arunachala and meditation.

And on Saturday, Sunday apart from one or two hour of on-call support,  I spend all my rest time into meditation, japa, reading books, contemplation , veda chanting hearing etc.   

Her point is, even those two days,  I need to focus on job related learnings,  equip myself very sharply so that when something bad in markets happen, I will still be safe. 

Here I disagree with her -- having pursuied and ran after wordly things for 27 full years,  now I feel it is time to spend considerable time for reflecting on teachings of Ramana.  I cannot in the name of duty accept this 24 X 7 all time thinking of IT, job, java learing,  technical knowledge, recession,  compensation, future savings,  plans etc etc etc.

I agree one should not ignore wordly duties -- but my question is where is the border line?  Does one have not the right to meditate on Saturday, Sunday and in other holidays?

Now the problem is really complex when one infact encounters something like job loss --   then I am sure,  people like me will be blamed for their weekend sadhana and for not being tuned to learn only job related stuffs in those free times.

All the hard work and worldy duty one did on week days will be ignored,  that poor guy will be blamed along with some scoldings to the poor Maharishee,  Thakur and others with the label that these people spoiled that guy.  They may not scold explicity due to some fear for Great sages, but they will think in a similar line only.

So what do you comment on this -- have anybody encountered this? 

For example, I find one hour full free time,  so instead of doing some sadhana and live in the 'now', should one go after learning some java fearing a recession?  In college days one should always 99% focus only on studies,  but after landing in a job,  should one repeat this endlessly? 

Please dont advise that 'work is worship', 'remvoe the doership and do your worldy job for 24 X 7 and that itself is sadhana'.
This I am tired of hearing.

Another famours reply is there is an age to do sadhana and now I should only be focussed on wordly duties.

This also I cannot agree.  All people advise to spend more time on sadhana minimising our needs to bare minimum. 

I am really puzzled by this question -- more importantly I pray that nothing bad should happen to my job or else poor Raman Maharishee self enquiry will be blamed for that.

Somehow I have decided that I am ready to face any situation and ready to do some more hard work on the job,  but to say that all the time one should only think of one's job and finance is utter non sense.

The defense I gave to my mother is this --  there are so many who relax by going to movies and eating pizzas in weekend.  But I am not doing all that,  my weekend relaxation is Maharishee and his teachings.

But in the very deep heart, my family members has a displeasure towards me and they all think that I am under a feeble career foundation.

Learned devotees -- I believe I have expressed as far as I can.  Please come up with

i)  Any similar situation you yourself encounter where sadhana comes in the way of getting starred at by your family

ii)Suggestions to strike a work life balance -- sorry sadhana work balance  :)
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: amiatall on August 08, 2011, 04:27:50 PM
Hello there ksksat27,

If you have understood the teachings correctly, there is no need to balance anything.
My question is why do you have to give reasons to anybody about your life? It is you who decides - not others. Be honest to yourself, to your heart. Forget the defensive stances or whatever.
If at least partially surrendered where is the room for future, stability and such various thoughts? None. HE takes care of everything.
You need to really look honestly.
Quote
having pursuied and ran after wordly things for 27 full years,  now I feel it is time to spend considerable time for reflecting on teachings of Ramana.



Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: ksksat27 on August 08, 2011, 04:40:02 PM
Hi

Thanks for your reply.

In my case,  I need to give reasons to my parents . Finally it is I who decides -- but my decision is very important for them who are dependent on me.  So  I dont want to commit a mistake either way -- in the name of duty be over working or in the name of sadhana sacrifice my dependent's peace of mind.

That is the entire thing.
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: matthias on August 08, 2011, 05:38:42 PM
dear ksksat27

Iam from the west, here the family is seen differently, the roles are different of mother father and child. My little time in india showed me that the structures are different then in the west.

I will go back to india to my guru and spend years with him meditating, Iam 24 years old now, my father gives me monthly some money to help me sustain this life, and a wonderful american women who I just recently met, also will give me monthly money to support my spritual practice, this is indeed a blessing, and a great opportunity not just for me but also for the western culture, as I will be immersed in a yogin lifestyle that is almost dying out. I will spent part of my time in a cave you know. How crazy is that???

I dont know how or why I am in this position, many people say I am really fast in the dharma, and that I have excellent karma, also my teacher said I practiced the dharma in previous lives.

thats my situation, the thing is still my father my mother they are worried what is going to happen with me? I dont have any income the next years, I didnt start to go to university jet, and it will be ahrder to do so later. Iam myself a little worried, what can i do with this experience? in the worldly life it means nothing right, I cannot buy me anything with moksha. But its the biggest gift I can give to my culture, and we need this you know. we really do, so I dont do my practice just for my little slef, its for the welfare and awakening of the whole exsitence, they said when the buddha was awakened all 10.000things were awakened too.

we are one, so your practice is for all not just for you. you create merit, when you pray to the gods and gurus, you accumulate merit (very good karmic seeds), that will help you to walk the spiritual path more easily, also the worldly life might become more easy. in short doing sadhana is the higghest good of a human being.

to talk with parents is always the most challenging in all cultures, maybe more so in the east then in the west. what you need to do is be true to yourself. if you learn and study more IT things, this might not prevent the next crash or the loss of your job, there is no guarantee for this
if you loose your job on the other hand and you have a good practice, a good stable peaceful mind, you dont panic and dont suffer so much.
if you spent your time with IT training you and loose your job you might worry alot and then cannot find a new job because you loose hope and trust in yourself.

so your practice is a help also for worldly life.

you should honor your mothers wishes, tell her you hear and understand her, and that she is right in some ways but that you feel it is most important for you to do your sadhana now.
be kind to her but also be firm in youre understanding what is best for you. even if she wont change at first, after some time when she sees you are honest and firm with your decision she will change too and be of service to your wish rather then working against it.

it might take some time, but that is how it was for me also, I just was holding on to myself (and being open and kind to my parents) and after some time my parents started to support me rather then telling me what I should do.

I know you can deal with this situation, and bhagavan is with you as well.
in tantric buddhism we have a saying that all situations are the guru. so if there is hardship it is the invitation to grow as a human being, move closer to moksha.
this situation is in this sense not an obstacle but an opportunity to grow and I know you will do the right thing, might not be what I said you know, but I do hope that some ideas were helpful.

as I said west and east are different int heir family structures, so you have to use your common sense as well, because these are ideas mainly coming from psychotherapy which is a western discipline for personal growth. and it helps dealing with family and relationship issues, but might not be very practical for an indian family you know.

anyway good and I know it will be fine

much love
matthias
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: amiatall on August 08, 2011, 11:07:10 PM
Very nice. We have a bunch of young people here  ;D

Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: Anand on August 09, 2011, 08:55:38 PM
As per Bhagavan,  all that we  will face in life is pre destined , though difficult  to accept.In fact even the time for  your Sadhana  is surely due to your past lives' Sadhana.
Hence if you are going to face any difficulties or not face any difficulties,it is because of your`past life thoughts cliamaxing at the time of your exit from your previous life.Since the universal is a painting on the self our thoughts perhaps decide what part we play in the picture at every stage.
Hence consider yourself lucky that you have time to do Sadhana. However do act externally, that you are fully focussed in work ,more than anything ,for avoiding guilty feelings .But again , you do not have to be guilty about being prominent as  a Ramana devotee or Arunchala devotee since someone else willl be influenced by this and  may take to self enquiry.
Regards,
Anand.
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 10, 2011, 09:43:49 AM


Dear Anand,

Yes. Everything is predestined.  Sri Bhagavan has said that only
those who are destined to come here, can come. Saint Manikkavachagar
says, in Tiruvachakam, "avan aruLale avan thaaL vaNangi.." with His
Grace, I am prostrating to His feet."  Nothing can happen without
grace of guru.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: ksksat27 on August 10, 2011, 12:31:03 PM
Subramanian Sir,

Thanks for your reply.

However your reply does not answer my question. 

I have asked on this dilemma --  however predestined, it is me who is going to act,  to work on weekends or to do sadhana on weekends is entirely on me.  So please help me in that by suggesting some tips.

Whatever comes to your mind,  please add it.  It may have some value.  Like Matthias reply,  he offered some tips.

In these important practical matters learned people like you cannot stop with a general phisophocai statement and adopt a netural stand.

No doubt your stand will fit both choices, but neverthless, some sort of detailed pros and cons is expected by me.

Regards,
Krishna
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 10, 2011, 03:11:09 PM


Dear Krishna

What more can I say? One way is to shift the sadhana, to late night
hours, when your father is sleeping.  Or very early in the mornings,
when he is still not awake.



Arunachala Siva.

 
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: nonduel on August 19, 2011, 07:01:18 AM
Dear Krishna,

Self enquiry is abiding in the self, or self-attention. That's "you", your sense of being, of presence. That's the whole sadhana.

All of your questions are from the mind trying to keep your attention outward towards second and third "objects". As soon as you notice this, just shift your attention on yourself. You can do this all the time, without anyone knowing it.

The mind loves to complicate things, you are not the mind, neither the thoughts.

Love
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: kde on August 21, 2011, 02:26:21 PM
Dear ksksat


This quote from Nisargadatta  helps me. " Refuse all thoughts except one, the thought I 'am".

That sums it up for me, you can do it at work as best you can, and when your at home. It's harder at work when we are talking to others, and very busy. But it can be done.
I have to say you need a bit more free time by the sound of it. Your obviously and very hard worker.   Surely the weekends and hoildays are yours.


How many hours per days are you working ?
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: ksksat27 on August 23, 2011, 02:40:07 PM
In week days I have to work 10 hours in average.  Weekend two days -- I get off.

I go to office and come by cabs,  so those journey times I do some sadhana.

Problem is not exactly with the current work timings.   

As said in my post,  it is about how to spend weekends --  shall I have to update myslef constantly with new java skills or I can forget all about work and do sadhana.

My Mother is very practical -- she clearly has a point.  My skillset is not so great.  Somehow I am dragging.  But the same time no matter I am skilled or not ,  all week days, work is extracted from me for long hours.

So in weekends, I need some change and rest , forgetting for a moment, all about this sadhana.

But because I always do sadhana on weekend and dont go for any picnics or roaming with friends,  naturally this sadhana aspect captures their attention.

Finally I dont want the blame to be passed on Ramana Maharishee on eventuality.  That is my dilemma.
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: amiatall on August 23, 2011, 03:55:23 PM
In week days I have to work 10 hours in average.  Weekend two days -- I get off.

I go to office and come by cabs,  so those journey times I do some sadhana.

Problem is not exactly with the current work timings.   

As said in my post,  it is about how to spend weekends --  shall I have to update myslef constantly with new java skills or I can forget all about work and do sadhana.

My Mother is very practical -- she clearly has a point.  My skillset is not so great.  Somehow I am dragging.  But the same time no matter I am skilled or not ,  all week days, work is extracted from me for long hours.

So in weekends, I need some change and rest , forgetting for a moment, all about this sadhana.

But because I always do sadhana on weekend and dont go for any picnics or roaming with friends,  naturally this sadhana aspect captures their attention.

Finally I dont want the blame to be passed on Ramana Maharishee on eventuality.  That is my dilemma.



Again, self-inquiry has nothing to do with your actions. You can even study JAVA and do self-inquiry. The true dilemma here honesty with your feelings and heart.
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: saraskrishna on August 23, 2011, 07:14:09 PM
Dear Krishna,

Why are you so much bothered and afraid... in fact, I'm also from IT and leading the same life style whatever you mentioned. I also travel in CAB to and fro, am almost of your same age..  I also see the kind of recession fears over US and other global economy And, am married  :)   i have a kid of 1.5yrs...

These are nothing to do with our sadhanas, i would say to you that, please read more and get more understanding of SELF.. read more on surrendering, pray more for his grace and be true and honest as every others say.. follow the instructions as true as possible. once you get better understanding your fears will go off...  It is HE does everything and there cannot be anything bad, as amiatall said already, HE is already with us and drives us.

as of now don't strain too much of yourself...  if you want to learn more on IT, go on and read, learn more nothing wrong.. even i'm planning to do PMP.  what you are supposed to get in the sadhana will come to you in due course...  it will take sometime..
read various chapters from Bhagavan and also read other books recommended by Bhagavan...


with love
Bala saraskrishna,

Arunachal Siva Arunachala Siva..
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 24, 2011, 05:31:00 PM


Dear Krishna,

Compartmentalization of work on week days and sadhana on week ends can be
practiced at the beginning.  But you should slowly bring in sadhana during the
week days. 



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: atmavichar100 on September 16, 2012, 11:20:27 AM
Dear Kskat

This is an old post that I recently came across and I do not know whether it is still relevant for you .Anway let me share my basic inputs :

1) No one can tell you exactly what you must do as each one will give an advice based on their own personal situation and condition and it may not practically apply to you .
2) Most of the great sages gave generic answers and that is also of not much help as you have found out yourself .
So what to do ?
Understand simply the fact that you have to wage a lone battle in this and this is the way all sadhaks have done it .I have never found one spiritual aspirant who had it easy i.e getting a good name / good understanding from anyone , more so from the family . Why even Bhagwan Ramana had a fight with his brother before leaving his house for Arunacahala .

But we are not Bhagawan Ramana as we still keeping asking other's opinion for what to do .
No doubt we can take Bhagwan Ramana for inspiration but let us be clear that we need to handle the life in front of us  till we  reach a spiritual maturity where u understand that everything works by the grace of God and no point in fighting with anything .
So the path of Surrender is ruled out for you currently and hence u need to focus on the path of effort .
Now what sort of effort do I mean ?
You need to put it those efforts that help u not only immediately but also help you help you in your future .
The only thing that comes to my mind is the Sadhana for you will be "Sandhya Vandana with Gayatri Japa" done with nishkama bhava .I am suggesting this as you are a Brahmin .
Many people do not feel Sandhya Vandam is a sadhana , it is a very high sadhana that also paves way for self enquiry later and also blesses the person with a sharp intellect and lot of spiritual power that he is able to do the day to day easily as well as handle his spiritual tasks as well as his family affairs .I myself understood the benefits of Sandhya Vandanam and Gayathri Japa only later and hence sharing the same here .
If you care a damn for others and want to lead life by your own dictates then follow the path of Bhagwan seriously and take in whatever comes as a prasad .
If you want to go adjusting with others bit by bit then follow the path of Karma Marga as given by our Vedas and Dharma Shastras so that it leads you to Jnana Marga later on its own accord .
So final choice is urs .This is just a pointer from me and please do not take this as a final advice .
By the way your problem is not just unqiue to you and I find many young people  who got interested in spirituality facing this same problem i.e unable to balance work , home , sadhana .
There are no easy answers here .
All the best in your life and sadhana .
Om Peace .
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: Ravi.N on September 16, 2012, 12:55:42 PM
Atmavichar(Krishna),
Wonderful post that every earnest seeker should take note of.I fully concur with your recommendation.I have not gone through the post that initiated this or the subsequent posts,yet I can figure out what your post addresses.

Yogi ShuddhAnanda Bharati used to advise:பசித்திரு,விழித்திரு,தனித்திரு!(Stay Hungry,Stay awake,Stay Alone!)

Namaskar.
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: atmavichar100 on September 16, 2012, 01:33:41 PM
Atmavichar(Krishna),
Wonderful post that every earnest seeker should take note of.I fully concur with your recommendation.I have not gone through the post that initiated this or the subsequent posts,yet I can figure out what your post addresses.

Yogi ShuddhAnanda Bharati used to advise:பசித்திரு,விழித்திரு,தனித்திரு!(Stay Hungry,Stay awake,Stay Alone!)

Namaskar.

Ravi

It was Saint Ramalinga Swamigal ( Vallalar ) who used that terminology first  i.e பசித்திரு,விழித்திரு,தனித்திரு.
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: Ravi.N on September 16, 2012, 02:15:00 PM
Atmavichar,
Thanks very much.Yes,Kavi Yogi has written a play on vaLLalar-called 'Jothi RAmalingam'.Wonderful advice indeed.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: ksksat27 on September 16, 2012, 06:26:25 PM
Dear Kskat

This is an old post that I recently came across and I do not know whether it is still relevant for you .Anway let me share my basic inputs :

1) No one can tell you exactly what you must do as each one will give an advice based on their own personal situation and condition and it may not practically apply to you .
2) Most of the great sages gave generic answers and that is also of not much help as you have found out yourself .
So what to do ?
Understand simply the fact that you have to wage a lone battle in this and this is the way all sadhaks have done it .I have never found one spiritual aspirant who had it easy i.e getting a good name / good understanding from anyone , more so from the family . Why even Bhagwan Ramana had a fight with his brother before leaving his house for Arunacahala .

But we are not Bhagawan Ramana as we still keeping asking other's opinion for what to do .
No doubt we can take Bhagwan Ramana for inspiration but let us be clear that we need to handle the life in front of us  till we  reach a spiritual maturity where u understand that everything works by the grace of God and no point in fighting with anything .
So the path of Surrender is ruled out for you currently and hence u need to focus on the path of effort .
Now what sort of effort do I mean ?
You need to put it those efforts that help u not only immediately but also help you help you in your future .
The only thing that comes to my mind is the Sadhana for you will be "Sandhya Vandana with Gayatri Japa" done with nishkama bhava .I am suggesting this as you are a Brahmin .
Many people do not feel Sandhya Vandam is a sadhana , it is a very high sadhana that also paves way for self enquiry later and also blesses the person with a sharp intellect and lot of spiritual power that he is able to do the day to day easily as well as handle his spiritual tasks as well as his family affairs .I myself understood the benefits of Sandhya Vandanam and Gayathri Japa only later and hence sharing the same here .
If you care a damn for others and want to lead life by your own dictates then follow the path of Bhagwan seriously and take in whatever comes as a prasad .
If you want to go adjusting with others bit by bit then follow the path of Karma Marga as given by our Vedas and Dharma Shastras so that it leads you to Jnana Marga later on its own accord .
So final choice is urs .This is just a pointer from me and please do not take this as a final advice .
By the way your problem is not just unqiue to you and I find many young people  who got interested in spirituality facing this same problem i.e unable to balance work , home , sadhana .
There are no easy answers here .
All the best in your life and sadhana .
Om Peace .


Dear Atmavichar

Thanks for your nice sayings and views.

Yes in the one year that has passed post this question,  I should accept that I have made few remarkable progress in my sadhana.

My faith in God and Guru has been constant and I also got darshan of my Guru.

All these factors are slowly purifying my mind and life is going on.

Surrender is setting forth slowly.

I would agree that the path that is suitable for me was in fact very unique to me and I also find that I am made to only a particular form of main sadhana.

I have also started doing sandhya vandhanam in weekends .

Thank you.

Arunachalam Smaranaa Mukthi.
Title: Re: a practical advise need from all
Post by: Vinod on September 16, 2012, 07:06:24 PM
Dear Atma Vichar,

Very valid suggestion and as mentioned correctly, it is a personal battle which one has to take care by himself and finally prevail with the blessings of master.

Ksksat - I am exactly same age of ur's and also in to same profession and facing the same challenges as you have faced one year before and please accept my gratitude for posting this topic as it also helping me now!

OM ARUNAACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!