The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi => Topic started by: Jyoti on May 25, 2011, 12:37:12 PM

Title: Karma
Post by: Jyoti on May 25, 2011, 12:37:12 PM
Is Karma a strict personal thing, or do families share Karma?
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 25, 2011, 01:50:51 PM

Dear Jyoti,

Karma is strictly personal.  Each one has to enjoy or suffer one's
one karma.  The karmas are not shared for a family as a whole.
How circumstantially, one's karma affects the others in a worldly
way.  For example, a person who had to die at a young age, he
dies at such a young age, and his wife suffers without any help,
as a widow, and mostly in poverty. Or a couple gets a blind child,
[due to child's own karma]  but the family suffers bringing up the child which is blind.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Jyoti on May 25, 2011, 04:11:48 PM
For example, a person who had to die at a young age, he
dies at such a young age, and his wife suffers without any help,
as a widow, and mostly in poverty.
But was it not the Karma of the wife to become widow at this age?
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Jyoti on May 25, 2011, 05:09:02 PM
Is every little event in one's life the result of Karma?
For instance: I am sitting at a table with a ball pen next to me.
When that ball pen should roll off the table and fall on the flow now, would that be Karma or just coincidence?
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 25, 2011, 06:11:15 PM

Dear Jyoti,

The young man's karma is to suffer death. The widowed wife's karma is to suffer in life. Both are different karmas.  The ball pen falling from the table is destiny.  Destiny happens without even karma as
the ball pen is insentient. Devaraja Mudaliar asked Sri Bhagavan:
Even my taking the hand fan from the ground and after fanning for sometime if I place it back on the ground - is it destiny?  Sri Bhagavan said: Yes.  Karmas will leave a person if he ceases to be
karmi. Destiny for insentient things happens as it is destined. The earthquake cum tsunami is destiny.  But A dying and B escaping the
havoc is dependent on A and B's karma. When an airplane crashes and all the travellers die means all their karmas have brought them the death. A man missing that flight escapes. His karma is not to die.   

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Jyoti on May 25, 2011, 06:15:10 PM
The Karma of one's current life (Prarabdha ?) - can it be destroyed by the Grace of God?
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 25, 2011, 07:34:50 PM

Dear Jyoti,

What is prarabdha karma?  It is the fruit of good and bad happenings arising out of our previous births, and is slated to give
effect this birth. 

Now, how does the fruits viz., happiness and sorrow, pleasure and pain, good and evil enjoyed?  It is with your mind. When in case of a Jnani, since there is no mind/ego, he does not feel the effects of such happiness and sorrows. His is equilibrium state of life. So in other words, prarabdha karma does not affect a Jnani.  Even a sadhak if he or she does self inquiry or self surrender, he becomes a Jnani and the fruits of prarabdha do not affect him.  They are no doubt there, but they do not affect him.  Like a feeble moon on the high noon.  Even it is there, the moon is not useful. 

Sri Bhagavan said: When a king dies [say like Dasarata] all his wives become widows. Like that all the three karmas are destroyed, when the ego [king] dies. One cannot say only Kaikeyi is not a widow and Kausalya and Sumitra are widows!  This He has explained in some verse in ULLadu Narpadu - Supplement.

Scriptural writings however say, it [the prarbdha] is like an arrow already sent [i.e fixed before your birth] and the arrow may not differentiate between a tiger and a harmless cow. It will hit anything that comes in its path.  Here, one should remember that the scriptures say only about prarabdha and not how a Jnani 'feels' about it. Jnani does not "feel" about it.  When Sri Bhagavan was in His terminal illness, the pain in sarcoma cancer was unbearable. But He felt the pain very very less. Even there, He said, The body is paining and He did not say, My body is paining.  Dr. Guruswami Mudaliar who did surgery for Him has said: It is like a spindle pain. Suppose you rotate a spindle on a wound, how much it would pain that person?  He added that the pain would be like a lorry running over your hand.  But Sri Bhagavan did not feel that sort of pain. Forwhatever worth, the body was paining and he was moaning. But it is not His body. It is the body.

Arunachala Siva.           
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Jyoti on May 25, 2011, 08:50:24 PM
Scriptural writings however say, it [the prarbdha] is like an arrow already sent [i.e fixed before your birth] and the arrow may not differentiate between a tiger and a harmless cow. It will hit anything that comes in its path. 
But has not God - being almighty - the power to destroy Prarbdha Karma?
One cannot say "God is almighty" and at the same time "God has not the power to destroy a persons Prarbdha Karma".
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: amiatall on May 26, 2011, 02:53:46 PM
When you start working on yourself( i.e. when you put it FIRST IN YOUR LIFE, not your problems, not getting this or that, not even for self-realization, just purely working on yourself), your karma is halted. And everything else is taken care of. The past being wiped out, etc. But this you don't need to know at all. Just work on yourself.
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 26, 2011, 05:03:56 PM

Dear Jyoti,

Karma phala is already fixed.  In very rare cases, Saiva Siddhantam
says that prarabdha karma can be thinned. Karumam melinthu varum
says one old Tamizh song. It is like the arrow, hitting at the cow, but only its horn and so the damage is considerably less.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Jyoti on May 27, 2011, 12:16:19 PM
Karma phala is already fixed.
But God is able to destroy it completely.
It is not possible that God is almighty but at the same time there is something God cannot acomplish.
In very rare cases, Saiva Siddhantam
says that prarabdha karma can be thinned.
Why only in rare cases?
Has not God grace for everyone?
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: kde on May 28, 2011, 10:11:33 PM
Animals must have karma to. But I find it very hard to reconcile some of the terrible suffering brought to them by humans. What on earth could they have done to deserve such pain and suffering. Billions are slaughtered for food and live in awful conditions without mercy or kindness. I have seen video from China where they skin the animals alive!

All I can take from this is happiness is pointless unless it is for all.

I also find it hard to reconcile to idea of a human life form being reborn as a animal.
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: ramana_maharshi on May 30, 2011, 01:56:17 AM
few terrible videos of animal slaughter can also be seen in below video (

We cannot get answers to all questions in this mysterious world is my conclusion sir.
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 30, 2011, 01:28:14 PM

Dear Jyoti,

Why only rare cases? - you asked. Because these rare cases have
shown ardent devotion to the Power within or the Power above
[both are same] and God's karuna, flows more towards them.
A mother has got 8 children [those days!]. Only one child is crippled
but mother loves that child most. Why? Because, that crippled child tells mother: I can not walk. Please take me on your waist. The other children can walk and so they have to be more careful. If they had to fall down and get bruises, mother gives them pain killing ointments. But for the crippled child, when it falls [very rarely[ mother too falls down and without bothering about her bruises, she first takes up the child on her waist. A weeping child gets milk quicker than a non weeping child. Weep, weep for the God's mercy.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 30, 2011, 05:58:44 PM

Dear srkudai,

Your post. The karmas act in  very mysterious ways.  Otherwise,
how can one explain a large number of persons having Sabarimala darshan should die in stampede while they were returning. Or, how an family of pious people after visting some holy places, while returning in car, die in an accident, not one of them, but the entire family.  I think these questions have no answers.

There is one story. Once there was Rishi who was also a raja guru
for the king. He used to say, everything is for the good, everything is for the good. One day the king while cutting a mango got a cut on his finger and started bleeding. After some medication, he became alright but still the wound was there. The raja guru when asked about this accident, said, everything is for the good. Raja was not pleased. In a few days time, he went to forest for hunting. Thered, he was caught by kapaligas who give human sacrifices to Siva or Kali. He was caught and brought before the god for human sacrifice. Suddenly someone noticed that the king had some wound on his finger. They said, he is defective. No use in sacrificing him. Let us release him. The raja came back. He said this to raja guru who answered, everything is for the good!

Arunachala Siva.         
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: saraskrishna on May 30, 2011, 06:11:11 PM
Dear Jyoti,

Why do you want God to destruct all karma? If you ask me whether I want GOD or destruction of karma? I will say I want only GOD, for I'm not bothered about destruction of karma. Once The GOD -The Self - is realized and attained and with HIS Grace, the same is retained.. Karma becomes useless or it has zero effect.  So, our efforts should be only towards seeking HIS Grace to attain the purpose of birth.

terrible and horrible incidents do happen and has been happening for years and years together. But, how many are exposed to that and how many worry over others' miseries? everything seen around is karma. I read in some books saying that even the dress i wear, the body i got and the environment in which i live and the kind of news i hear and see around in this world is also the karma.

The one who cries or worries on seeing others miseries is already a blessed soul ! GOD shall never forsake them. 

Last week I saw the movie "Passion of Christ".  I donno how many of us here have seen that.  The kind of torture / punishment given to Jesus Christ is  so horrible that weak hearted people cannot hold to see that.  Nobody else or no man would have been beaten to half dead like that.....   Jesus, knew of all these before itself.  HE only prayed to LORD and requested LORD to conduct that incident in ITS own accord.  This is the kind of acceptance that one has to cultivate. Rather than finding ways to escape or to avoid, pray to LORD and accept whatever comes.

Jesus' level of acceptance was immeasurable, HE said HE was born for this purpose !!!

Rather than expecting, one should start accepting. Having known Bhagavan and HIS teachings so much now, we should strive to avoid accumulating Karmas hereafter.

Dear Jyoti, just wanted to reiterate.. Karma is only for the body and mind, it is not for the Athman !  WE are reaping the results of OUR karma. Only God's grace can dilute it and can even nullify it as said before...

If you ask me, was God not there when we were accumulating karmas before? I say Yes , God was there but we didn't see HIM nor we took an effort.  When Jesus was brutally beaten and nailed, HE cried and requested to LORD as "They don't know what they are doing. Please forgive them."

with love,
Arunachala Siva.. Arunachala Siva..
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 30, 2011, 06:19:38 PM

Dear saraskrishna,

Yes. Loving everyone including those who hate you, makes you forget your miseries and pains - out of karma. Love pervading helps you to put up with one's misfortunes.

I had a longing for a pair of shoes,
I had no money,
When I saw a man who had no legs,
I understood that god has been kind to me.
I cease to desire a pair of shoes.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: kde on May 31, 2011, 03:38:25 PM

It's just awful. I watched one but really cant cope with it. Plus I have consumed meat and dairy in the past, I feel guilty. It makes me sad beyond words to see that treatment of our fellow beings. 
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on May 31, 2011, 03:56:42 PM

Dear kde,

Do not worry about past. These habits if they could be left off once and for all and permanently, that is okay. Thinking about past shall not give you any relief. Once someone came to Sri Bhagavan and asked Him: I am a great sinner, can there be any relief and liberation for me?
Sri Bhagavan said: "Why not?"

The devotee said that his papas [demerits] were so terrible. I have
done very little punyas [meritorious acts]. Sri Bhagavan said: "Give
me both you merits and demerits.  The devotee said: Oh, no, how can I give my demerits to you. It will be a patch on your life. Sri Bhagavan said: It does not matter. Give them both to me and be free!"       

Like this story, let us give all our knapsack to Him. He will confer deliverance to us.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: kde on June 03, 2011, 12:16:58 PM
Thank you Subramanian, both past and future seem to be on my mind. I try to stop thinking of such things, but when there is guilt associated it's hard to stop the torment.  The mind itself is the cause of suffering. Perhaps it's deserved, there has to be a price to pay. I try to think about who the thought come too. Maybe in the end that will win out. I think the ego loves to have these regrets.
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: kde on June 03, 2011, 12:29:22 PM
Do you think we can really give our merits and demerits to Ramana? I had hadn't thought of that.

How should I do that?  I want to get rid of this burden more than anything. I want to surrender this life, but don't know how. 
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on June 03, 2011, 12:37:29 PM

Dear kde,

Ego or mind is creating two scenarios. Both are problems. One is about the past, re-living the past and regretting ad nauseum. The second is about the future, planning, planning all the way. And then getting anxiety out of that.

Sivaprakasam Pillai asks Sri Bhagavan: (Question No. 14): Is it
possible for the residual impressions of object that come from beginningless time, as it were to be resolved and for one to remain as the pure Self?

Sri Bhagavan: Without yielding to the doubt, "Is it possible or not?" one should persistently hold on to the meditation on the Self. Even if one to be a sinner, one should not worry and weep, 'O I am a sinner, how can I be saved?'  One should completely renounce the thought "I am a sinner" and concentrate keenly on meditation on the Self. Then one should surely succeed.

The above is about past.

About future, He says for Question No. 18 of Pillai:

Of the devotees, who is the greatest?

..... Whatever burdens are thrown on God, He bears them. Since the supreme power of God makes all things move, why should we, without submitting ourselves to it, constantly worry ourselves with that thoughts as to what should be done and how, and what should not be done and how not? We know that the train carries all loads, so after getting on it, why should we carry our small luggage on our head to our discomfort, instead of putting it down in the train and feeling at ease?

Arunachala Siva.                  
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: kde on June 04, 2011, 12:03:19 PM
Dear Subramanian, you have the problem exactly.

I have been trying to ask to who the thoughts are coming, which would seem like the right course to take.

When the thoughts are too strong I will waver but then bring it back to who.  Getting rid of the idea that there is a person is very hard, but I at least understand it. I will certainly try to put my baggage down. The relief will be nice so say the least. 

Thanks for your replies. 
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on June 04, 2011, 03:01:19 PM

Dear kde,

If you throw away the problems to Him, you will first start feeling
"the incomparable lightness of Being" within.  But you cannot throw
the problems to Him that are your original making. If you suffer from liver cancer due to continuous smoking, you cannot throw the problem to Him and say, Take care of my cancer! Did you ask Him,
Can I smoke 20 cigarettes per day, in the first?

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: kde on June 11, 2011, 01:44:11 PM
Dear Subramanian, thank you. I have been trying this, funnily enough I have found a little in this.  Not that I don't trust Ramana, I have never tried to do this.  But I do feel less of a burden. It's early days yet. But I will give all of those things to Ramana in faith. Thank You.
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Jyoti on June 11, 2011, 06:23:37 PM
"Sri Ramana Mahrshi: Individuals have to suffer their Karmas but Iswara manages to make the best of their Karmas for his purpose. God manipulates the fruits of Karma but he does not add or take away from it. The subconscious of man is a warehouse of good and bad Karma. Iswara chooses from this warehouse what he sees will best suit the spiritual evolution at the time of each man, whether pleasant or painful." found here (

When I read the news, I cannot help but thinking that Ishvara somethimes gives people too much to handle.
How can beeing tortured & raped suit the spiritual evolution of a child?
And there are many cases were children have to suffer such terrible things, just loock on web, it is unbelievable.  :'(
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on June 11, 2011, 06:49:17 PM

Dear Jyoti,

I read in newspapers about a child  who was born about 20 years back, with no limbs at all. Only head and torso.  The biological mother left that child in an asyulum.  A Western couple came to the
asylum and chose this child for upbringing. They went to their country and after some years fixed artificial hands and legs!  The girl child is now 20 years old and she has been brought up with devout Christian faith. She wanted to see her biological mother. The foster parents brought her to India, went to the asylum and found out mother's address and traced the mother. The mother was astonished beyond belief and she cried and cried over the girl's shoulders. She finally said: Christ has given me this life and I thank Christ through my parents. I want to spend my remaining life with them and evolve as true christian.  She returned to her country with her foster parents, who were quite happy to take the girl back to the child.

Sometimes karma alone is softened to a great extent by grace in due course. What to do you say for this real life story.

There is no point for anyone to cry for the karma that has afflicted the. Live your life to attaing godhead. Once I made a small survey how many children congenitally visually challenged [born blind]
and they all said that they believe in God and God will take care of them. This is nothing but grace of God acting upon them.

Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: kde on June 17, 2011, 12:07:46 PM
Dear Jyoti,
there are so many terrible things going on today, nothing new there. I suppose such things will help to end the desire for birth in the first place and drive us to seek liberation from the cycle. Easy to say while not being tortured I guess.

Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on June 17, 2011, 08:43:29 PM

Dear kde,

Yes. I had been to Tiruvannamalai for 3 days from 15th June 2011.
There I met one gentleman whose hands have become disfigured
i.e too short and he could not also walk for the same disfigurement.
He came to the Asramam and asked for money.  The Asramam
people said that they cannot give him any money but he can eat food once in a day and come there for any  number of days.  This is the best one can do in such times of karmically affected people. What is the use of giving money? He will at best smoke some beedis.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: kde on June 19, 2011, 01:00:47 PM
Dear Subramanian, At least the ashram is there to dole out food to the needy, and the man is at the ashram itself. That has to be a good thing.

Does the ashram take in donations? 
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on June 19, 2011, 03:25:25 PM

Dear kde,

The Asramam has been giving food for all beggars and destitutes first
in the morning at 10.30 a.m. Everyday some 300 to 400 people stand in the queue and take the food. In festival days like Sri Bhagavan's
birthday or Maha Deepam day, this crowd swells to 2000. 

THEN only the visitors and inmates are given food but here it is both morning and evening. About 200 everyday and the number will be 2000 on festival days.

This practice is nowhere else in this world. The Maths first serve to brahmins and then to non brahmins and then only to beggars. But
Sri Bhagavan Himself changed the procedure and made the beggars to be served food first.   

They do not charge anything. But if someone offers contributions,
they accept it.  They do not ask anything first of all.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: kde on June 20, 2011, 12:44:30 PM
Dear Subramanian, I like that Sri Ramana changed it so beggers were served first, that's one of the things we all love Ramana for. I expect that caused a bit of fuss too!
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on June 20, 2011, 03:29:06 PM

Dear kde,

Yes. The background story is like this:

Once there was a big rush for food. Some beggars and sadhus were
trying to enter the dining hall.  One uninitiated devotee shouted:
For Paradesis [literally beggars and sadhus] it is only second batch.

Soon visitors went inside the dining hall. But they did not find Sri
Bhagavan.  They searched for Him.  He was sitting with monkeys in the nearby orchard called Palakottu.  Some one went near Him and asked Him:  Bhagavan!  We are all waiting for you!

Sri Bhagavan said: "Why should you wait?  You can all eat. I am a Paradesi. I should eat only in the second batch!"

From this incident, the sadhus and beggars were given food first.
Even today this practice is followed.

Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Jyoti on August 10, 2011, 08:41:01 PM
I the grace of God bound to Karma or is it free?

Individuals have to suffer their Karmas but Iswara manages to make the best of their Karmas for his purpose. God manipulates the fruits of Karma but he does not add or take away from it.

Suppose a man is unemployed, prays to God for a job and finds one
Does this man get the job
- because of his Karma
- because of the gace of god
- because it was his Karma to get the grace of God       ?

When according to his Karma it is impossible for the man to find employment, is it not impossible for God to let the man find a job because "Ishvara does not add or take away from Karma"?
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: saraskrishna on August 10, 2011, 09:04:52 PM
Dear Jyoti,

Why are you so much bothered about karma? Our duty is to practice self-enquiry as much as possible, if it seems to be difficult, one can keep chanting "Arunachala Siva". 

We are supposed to do only this and rest all sorts of karma and etc will be taken care by Bhagvan.  Surrender it to HIM.
Don't worry too much.. for Sadguru Shankara once said, Worries are disease created from immatured mind.

When did you come to know about Bhagavan? I mean at what age or time of your life were you attracted to HIM? There are people who lived without knowing Bhagavan for 40 or 50 years and all of a sudden they get attracted, then they never leave HIM or HE never leaves them. Likewise, everyone will have to merge with HIM

If a question is answered, it will rise to another question - Once Bhagavan Said.  Rather, get in to self-enquiry.. ask where from your question came up, who wants to know the answer.. practice. 

Else surrender, and keep reading more and more of Bhagavan that will start answering all questions slowly. Never bother more about karma, what we sow is that we reap and the question of whether Iswara will help or not is all for external affairs, leave that also to Bhagavan - The Iswara.

Dont get confused, Bhagavan also said that body and mind itself is the result of karma.. That too will pass away..

with love
Bala saraskrishna

Arunachala Siva Arunachala Siva
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 11, 2011, 09:33:30 AM

Dear saraskrishna,

Yes. I agree with you.  All these discussions about Karma are mental.
When there is no mind [ego] there is no karma or karma phala at all.
When the ego is vanquished, all the three karmas [agami, sanchita,
and prarabdha] are gone as all the three wives of a king become widows
on the death of the king.  But we are not still able to vanquish the ego
and so there are questions, answers and counter questions.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: saraskrishna on August 11, 2011, 02:53:54 PM
Dear Udai and Jyoti,

Wonderful quote " Though, for a Sadhaka, the ideal is not to desire at all. " ... not all have become Sadhakas yet or have they obtained the knowledge of how a sadhaka is supposed to live.. that's why questions keep coming as Subramanian sir said..
However, if one keeps reading and practising all the instructions set by Bhagavan for us, one will definitely turn to be a sadhaka in due course of time.

Jyoti - we have many great souls in this forum to asnwer any question, no doubt in that. I never discourage questioning, I also tried to answer... even I was questioning many times when I joined the forum newly and Subramanian Sir has Graciously answered everything for me everytime with great patience !

All the Glory goes to Bhagavan for having created this forum for us.

A small story that i read sometime back,  i forgot the name of the characters...

There was a great sufi jnani living in deserts of arabs.  He was delivering very high teacings.. Many Kings would come and wait long in hot deserts to talk to him.  One day, he was teaching on the topic of 'surrendering' to God.  There were many people gathered around, on the second day one of the disciple who travelled long distance in his camel came to attend the teaching..

After reaching the place, he got down from his Camel and didn't tie the camel to any rods or rock near by saying to himself that God will take care of holding it. And after he entered in to the small tent the Jnani shouted and question him asking "Why didn't you tie your camel outside?" this disciple was first shocked to hear this as he was wondering how come HE knew what he did outside little far from the tent and then replied "I surrendered to God and so he will take care", Sufi Jnani shouted again with rough tone saying "Do you think God has no other job to do? Do you think God will tie the camel outside for everybody? what fool are you? you should have come by walk rather if you don't serve your responsibility for your camel" .  He thus scolded him and sent him out.

This is where many get misunderstood.. Camel was to be taken care by the rider, if the rider was matured enough, he would have come by walk without bothering the camel and without minding the hot sun.... there comes his vairagya... That is not the case with all, includeing me, as long as we are held up duties from which we are not able to come out, we are supposed to pray and do all that is dictated.. At the very base of the heart, one should be clear about the Reality.. that should be fine. 

If one is unemployed, he can defenitely pray to God for Job.. the strenght and power of his prayer will be rewarded... Again all these actions are also based on Karma.. The effect of karma is considerably reduced by the Grace of God through his prayers or in the other way, the devotee is given enough strength to face his karma and come out of it without worries and sufferings.....

With love,

Arunachala Siva Arunachala Siva

Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 11, 2011, 03:10:21 PM

Dear srkudai, saraskrishna.

Nice answers.

Once when someone asked Sri Bhagavan: Is desiring the Self not a
desire?  Sri Bhagavan replied smilingly: "That is the only one desire,
anyone can have!"

But this does not mean that we should not have any desires at all
in life. For that one should live  in a Cave and eat what is given as
bhiksha. But we are not like that.  So essential desires for making
a living and doing sadhana are necessary.   Sri Bhagavan never
discouraged chanting gayatri or slokas  of His devotees.  He never
encouraged anyone to resign his job and come away to Arunachala.
He wanted all of them to have their karmas completed, desires fulfilled
and then leave a peaceful contented life and at the same time, do
sadhana.  He only stressed inner renunciation than leaving the family,
resigning the job and wearing ochre robe.  This inner renunciation can
be cultivated, along with doing all karmas and having all reasonable
desires.  What should be renounced at the end is the ego.

Arunachala Siva.

Title: Re: Karma
Post by: amiatall on August 12, 2011, 02:41:37 PM

Once when someone asked Sri Bhagavan: Is desiring the Self not a
desire?  Sri Bhagavan replied smilingly: "That is the only one desire,
anyone can have!"

Arunachala Siva.

This is not a permission, this is a FACT that sooner or later is seen, for everything is Self itself.
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 12, 2011, 02:48:16 PM

Dear amiatall,

Yes.  This statement will become a State, when one abides in the
Self permanently.  This is what Sri Bhagavan also says, in Verse
5 of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam:

He who, with Heart to you surrendered,
Beholds for ever to you alone,
Sees all things as forms of You
And loves and serves them as none other
Than the Self, O Aruna Hill,
Triumphs because he is immersed
In You whose being is pure bliss.

[Tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan]

Arunachala Siva.

Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Hari on December 02, 2011, 12:33:45 AM
A beautiful example comes in my mind concerning karma. In the Norse pre-christian religion there was a story about Ragnarök (it's something like the Last Judgment of christianity which means Twilight of the Gods). This would be the day when many of the Aesir Gods, heroes and the followers of Loki (including Loki Himself) will die in battle and new and happy world with virtues, truth, beauty and brotherhood will arise. The all-knowing Father Odin knew that and He didn't do anything to prevent it because that was the design, that was the destiny of all of them. The christians have mocked the followers of Odin - how can follow a God who will die one day. But their objection is this - the body of Him will die for the good of all that exists but the Odin consciousness will remail what It has always been - pure and without limits, full of love and compassion. So at the end the winner is Odin. Christ, Krishna, Shiva, Odin consciousness are just synonyms.
So it is with every one of us - we have different karmas but the essence of all is That which has alway been - the Self.
Title: Re: Karma
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 02, 2011, 02:58:25 AM
Dear ramana,

To put it in more simple terms,  "We are ever the Self.  All karmas are activities of mind and
body.  So the karmas are not the actvities of the Self.  Nevertheless, karmas by themselves
will not confer results on their own but by only due to god's command."

Karmas, however cannot be avoided or done, excepting duebto prarabdha.

Arunachala Siva.