The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi => Topic started by: eranilkumarsinha on October 11, 2010, 08:50:59 AM

Title: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 11, 2010, 08:50:59 AM
  Dr.Sarada asked Sri Muruganaron on a visit," Is it enough if I think of Bhagwan as my Guru and practice
  self-enquiry ?" On hearing the question Muruganar was deeply moved. He went red in face and
  his voice choked with emotion as he said 'Enough! Enough! Cent per cent sufficient.' After a moment's pause he
  added, 'More than hundred per cent sufficient.' He then stressed that Bhagwan is the only everlasting illumination
  within us and that His Presence is the only existence everywhere and for all time.

                                                                                                       From Surging Joy by
                                                                                                             Dr Sarada
                                                                                                                             
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 11, 2010, 09:09:12 AM



Keeping the Guru within Heart, and investigating into the nature of
Self [which is Self Enquiry] is enough.   If one finds Self Inquiry difficult, then he can keep the form of Guru in Heart and take up
intense devotion and blossom that devotion into surrender to the
Guru. 



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 11, 2010, 09:21:12 AM
 Dear Subramanian ji,
 
  Your post is also very assuring like that of Sri Muruganar's reply to Dr. Sarada if one needs at all to be
  assured of. ' Keeping the Guru within Heart, and investigating into the nature of self is enough.' Thank you
  so much , sir.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: DRPVSSNRAJU on October 11, 2010, 03:17:09 PM
Self-inquiry is the process of uncovering the reality which is clouded by thoughts.We cannot investigate into the Self.
Self is oneness and a unitary whole.The ignorant mind cannot investigate into the Self.It is enough if we set aside the
ignorant mind so that Self is uncovered,Self-inquiry is not a search for truth.The search for truth is merely a fulfillment of
belief.Self-inquiry is the process of understanding how thought works and nature of thinker.It explores what the thinker is
and his thoughts.Without understanding this self isolation process which we commonly call the "thinker or ego".
Merely caught to be in a dogma is not the uncovering beauty of Self which is life,existence,truth.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on October 12, 2010, 12:50:40 AM
Dear Raju,
I am sorry but I can't understand what you are trying to convey.
Self-inquiry is not an exploration tool of thinker and thoughts. It is a tool which kills the thinker and thought even before exploration can start.
We can explore thoughts, breath, various states of mind with various kinds of yogas and practices, but the explorer is omitted here, and this is maya.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 12, 2010, 08:52:46 AM



Dear Dr. Raju,

By the phrase "investigating into the nature of Self", I meant only
Self attention, or the process of leaving thoughts about the body and the world.



Arunachala Siva.
and
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 12, 2010, 03:37:15 PM
 I do not feel I am competent enough and, therefore, do not wish to utter vain words other than
 Bhagwan's WORDS and the Words of His Great Devotees. Hence, I entreat those who may agree
 that in case of difference of opinions among the devotees, we should turn to the 'Authority'
 i.e. Sri Bhagwan over and above the scriptures. The Straight Path shown, lighted and enjoined
 by our Guru is so integral and absolute that It is Goal Itself and, in my opinion, does not leave any room
 for argument.All we need to do is to tread it diligently.I mean Practice with unwavering belief and
 intense devotion to our Guru.

 Verse 19, Upadesa Saram,

 "Wherefrom does this "I"-thought arise? If one enquires thus , it vanishes. This is Self-enquiry."

 Verse 20,

 "When the "I"-thought perishes, then another "I"-"I" springs forth as the Heart, spontaneously.
  It is Existence in all its fullness."

 Sri Bhagwan has repeatedly said that 'Who am I' is not a verbal question to be repeated like a mantra.
 One should cultivate genuine doubt about his identity. If I know the true import of "I", what is the meaning of
 raising  'who am I' question? If I do not know that which I call "I" ,all thoughts loose power, meaning
 and sheen. I feel that if 'Who am I' question is raised with genuine doubt about one's identity itself,
 the thinker, and intense self-attention is maintained, only "I"-thought remains and that too will ultimately
 merge with the Source or Self.

 This is how I feel.If anyone has a different view, he may kindly ignore.

                                                                                        Thank you.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 12, 2010, 04:50:35 PM



Bhagavan Ramana says in Who am I?

When one's self arises, all arises.  When one's self becomes quiescent,
all becomes quiescent.  To the extent we behave with humility, to that extent, there will be results that are good.  If the mind is rendered quiescent, one can live anywhere.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 12, 2010, 05:15:46 PM
 Dear Sri Subramanian ji,
            Pranam,

  Yes Sir.Sri Bhagwan said that during deep sleep mind is quiescent and only Reality 'I am' is.
 On waking, little self arises and with it all else arise simultaneously. Therefore I is the
 phenomenal or the relative world which is only mental.
                                                                 Tank you, Sir.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: DRPVSSNRAJU on October 12, 2010, 06:11:38 PM
Dear amiatall,exploration is verbal,there is no explorer involved in that as noun.Exploration is done by awareness.
I really do not understand when you say " It is a tool which kills the thinker and thought even before exploration can start."
Can you elaborate on what you want to say and i will read it with an open mind.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on October 12, 2010, 07:57:38 PM
Dear Raju,

I mean:

Verse 19, Upadesa Saram,
"Wherefrom does this "I"-thought arise? If one enquires thus , it vanishes. This is Self-enquiry."

The question basicly is, how can it be a tool of exploring thoughts and thinker, when during self-inquiry the thinker itself is questioned ? And when the thinker is questioned, where are thoughts?

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: DRPVSSNRAJU on October 12, 2010, 10:07:14 PM
Questiomimg the thinker is exploration.But the "I" thought won't vanish in single attempt.So thoughts will be there even after
several attempts of exploration.Just because it is vanished for Bhagawan in a single attempt we cannot say it is the case for everybody.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on October 13, 2010, 01:55:13 AM
I see now what you mean, thank you
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 13, 2010, 09:33:22 AM
 Dear Dr.Raju and Sri amiatal,

 Very nice, Sir. How I understand is as following:
 Mind is the bundle of thoughts, in which "I"- thought is the central thought and all other thoughts are connected 
 to this central thought.Without the cenral I-thought, no other thought can subsist.The I-thought can also
 not subsist by itself, since it has no consciousness of its own but only reflects the consciousness of the Self.
 This is also why it cannot bear the intense scrutiny.It survives by constantly associating itself with other
 thoughts.Sri Bhagwan says that by  questioning of the I-thought,by challenging its locus-standi,the very existence
 of the thinker is in jeopardy.'Who am I' question will invariably scorch all other thoughts and all attention will be on
 the I-thought only.If this process is repeated as often as attention wanders to other thoughts and attention is
 paid only to the I-thought,it will of its own accord merge in the Source,Self.

                                                                                               Thank you.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: DRPVSSNRAJU on October 13, 2010, 10:22:15 AM
Dear eranilkumarsinha ,beautiful post.This is exactly Bhagawan's point of view.Thank you.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: DRPVSSNRAJU on October 13, 2010, 10:23:18 AM
Dear amiatall,thank you for your response.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 13, 2010, 03:49:28 PM
 Sri Bhagwan said that Self-enquiry is the only infallible means to attain Self-knowledge.Sri Muruganar said that
 it is more than hundred percent enough.Having understood the technique of the self-enquiry, as revealed by
 Sri Bhagwan, rather well, atleast intellectually, one still doubts its efficacy. Where do we err ? When 'Who am I ?'
 question is raised only verbally without adequate doubt about the true nature of the enquirer, the thinker, it
 can not be termed as the Self-enquiry. If I know who raise the question, to ask 'Who am I?' is obviously absurd.
 If I do not know 'I' and ask 'Who am I?' and at the same time think that I am not progressing in self-enquiry,
 I have to attend to this or that work, I am not fit for Self-enquiry, my father's health is deteriorating fast, etc.,
 this is also absurd.

 If I do not know "I", who is not progressing, who is to attend to this or that work, who is not fit, whose
 father is ill etc. ?

 When one asks profoundly, "Who am I ?", each and every thought is meaningless, sheenless, redundant,
 and totally irrelevant thus effectively preventing thoughts at their birth place imparting them mortal
 blows.The thinker is apprehended by intense attention on the I-thought which Sri bhagwan says will
 then merge subsequently of its own accord  with the Source or the Self.

                                                                                              Thank you.         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 14, 2010, 03:00:28 PM
             'Sarva-dharman paritajyo mam ekam saranam vraja
             aham tva sarva-papebhyo moksayami ma sucah|'

  "Abandoning dependence on all dharmas (or on human efforts at moral and spiritual upliftment),
  come to Me as the only refuge. Grieve not;I will deliver you from all sins."
                                                                              Verse 66, Chap.-18
                                                                            Srimad Bhagavad Gita

    Sri Bhagwan said, " Your duty is to be and not to be this or that.This sums up the whole Vedanta."

        I am Anil.
       I am a  civil engineer.
       I am the father of so and so.

    I am. Therefore I think I am Anil. I exist first and, therefore, I think I am Anil.
    I am. Therefore I think I am a civil engineer. I exist first and, therefore, this existence enables me to     
    think that I am a civil engineer.
    I am. Therefore I think I am the father of so and so.I exist and this is the basis for me to think I am the father
    of so and so.

   Descartes said, "I think therefore I exist."

         But Sri Bhagwan taught us that first I am, I exist and, therefore, I think.

                                                                                       Thank you. 
                 
   

     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on October 14, 2010, 06:38:03 PM
What Descartes said is true.

'I' THINK therefore 'I' exist. If 'I' don't think, 'I' does not exist. What remains is that which cannot be named even as 'I'.

Well at least it is one of the many ways looking at it...
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 15, 2010, 09:21:22 AM
 Dear Sri amiatal,

 Yes, what Sri Descartes said is true in that I-thought or the ego or the central thought exists because of
 association  with other thoughts only. But "I", the Existence ,the Self, is, It needs no association whatsoever
 to exist. Only It is.

 But Dear Sri amiatal, You know Sri Descartes meant "I" in the sense of existence as it is obvious from
 ' I think, therefore I exist.'
 Nevertheless, thank you so much for response. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: DRPVSSNRAJU on October 15, 2010, 09:28:30 AM
Dear eranilkumarsinha,i agree totally with your point of view.Nice post.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 15, 2010, 11:52:28 AM
 Dear Sri Dr.Raju ji,
           
 Thank you so much, Sir.Your and Sri Subramanian ji's endorsement of views and feelings
 give us necessary courage as well as encouragement.They invariably provide essential hints
 that one is treading the Path shown, lighted and enjoined by our Guru sincerely. Thank you so much, Sir.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 15, 2010, 04:43:07 PM
  "The unreal can never come into existence, and the real can never cease to be.
    The wise philosophers have known the truth about the real and the unreal."
                                               
                                                 Ch.-2,V-16
                                           Srimad Bhagwat Gita
  " Is there an existent awareness other than existence ? Because the existence-reality exists in the Heart
    free from psychoses, the existence-reality is called the Heart. How to cotemplate it ? To exist as it exists
    in the heart is to contemplate it. Thus should you know."

                                                                                                V-1, Invocation,
                                                                                             Forty Verses On Reality

 Each and every one experiences feelings of existence. Can there be feelings of existence without that
 which truly exists always ? Sri Bhagwan said that 'I am' is God.He always referred to the Bible's
 Mahavakya, " I am that I am".

 Thus,
 'I am' or the Self or the Existence or God is the most basic and fundamental experience within the
  reach of each and every one,more natural than even the experience of air and sky.The simplest
  experience ever conceivable. Whatever the states,sleeping, dreaming or waking,feelings of 'I am' or
  the existence is the underlying reality on which  the edifice of the mind, body and the world is built
  upon.

                                                                                    Thank you.               
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on October 15, 2010, 07:44:07 PM
Dear eranilkumarsinha,

no, actually I don't know in fact what Descartes meant, I only inquire. At the first glance it may seem that he refers to existence overall, but to me the question arose - existence of what? What is this "I" he referring to when saying 'I Think'? To me it is clear (at least for now) that what he refers to is the thinker and not That which enabled him. Anyway it is a matter of perception nothing more.


What really hits me deeply is this excerpt from Kaivalaya Navaneeta:

Disciple: "How should I remain, so that I may experience what you have described as Bliss?''
Master: "If you get rid of the mode of mind which give rise to the states of waking, dream and sleep, you will remain as your true being and also experience Bliss. 

Any comments ?
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 16, 2010, 08:55:17 AM



What Sri Bhagavan and His devotees said about this Dascretes
statement was:

"I think" therefore I am.

It means that one's existence is known by the fact that he thinks.

The devotees said, it is a folly.  When thinking process goes on,
"I am" is not there, but only the ego.  Only when I cease to think,
"I am".



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 16, 2010, 09:15:59 AM
 Dear Sri Subramanian Ji,

 Thank you so much, Sir, for enlightening us on Sri Descartes Statement.

  Sri Bhagwan often asked, " Are there two Shelves ? "

 Sri Descartes also must be meaning only subjective feeling of existence
 by "I" in his statement, 'I think, therefore, I am. Sir,kindly enlighten.

                                                                                 With regards,
                                                       
                                                                                     Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 16, 2010, 09:49:09 AM
Dear Sri amiatal,

  With regard to Sri descartes Statement, please see Sri Subramanian ji's post where he has explained it so nicely.

 With regards to the second para in your post, although I do not feel I am competent to reply,
 with Sri Bhagwan's Grace  I shall try to explain in His own words.

 Sri Bhagwan said, " After negating all as not this , not that , that awareness which alone remains is
 the Self-that I am. The nature of awareness is Existence- Consciousness- Bliss."

 Again, mind is a wondrous power residing in the Self causing thoughts to rise, covering and hiding our true nature.
 
 Verse 17, Upadesa Saram,

 What is the mind ? If one searches to find out, then there would be no separate entity as the mind.

 Verse 18,

 The mind is only a bundle of thoughts. They are dependent on the 'I"-thought. Know the 'I"-thought
 to be the mind.

 Verse 20,
 When the 'I'-thought perishes, then another I-I springs forth as the Heart, spontaneously. It is Existence
 in all its fullness. 

 Thus, when the three states of the mind are got rid of bu sadhana, our true nature as
 Existence-Consciousness-Bliss is revealed.

                                                                             Thank you.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 16, 2010, 02:13:41 PM



Dear amiatall,

What I think, that the verse you have quoted from Kaivalya Navaneetam means -

a) A Jnani is ever in Bliss and this Bliss is the fourth state. Turiyam.

b) It is beyond the normal man's states of wakefulness- Jagrat, swapna - dream, and sushupti - deep sleep.  He is ever blissful.
A Jnani may appear to be wakeful, dreaming [that he only knows
or tells later] or sleeping, but he is ever blissful even in these
apparent states.


   

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 17, 2010, 09:59:34 AM
 Reading Dr.Sarada's writings on Bhagwan Sri Ramana is sheer joy. Sri Bhagwan's Teaching is integral
 and absolute. However, her writings provide unique clarity to sadhana. A passage from her
 'Surging Joy' is quoted below :

 " If one recognises that all goal orientation is thought, that all need to achieve, to experience is thought and it is
   the very thoughts that screen the Truth, then the clouds cease to diturb the view. One would realise then that
   the thoughts can not reach the Self,that it is not affected by them even as noise does not disturb the stillness
   of Arunachala or clouds and trees that are seen in between do not break the vastness of the sky. One would
   recognise too, that the joy of seeming close to Self-awareness, and the sorrow of being away or disturbed are
   both projections of the mind. They are both for the experiencer , for the practitioner of the path. And who is
   the one who practices ? Who is the sadhaka ? Is he the joyous one ? Is he the depressed one ? Is he the one
   who makes progress ? Is he the one who is obstructed on the inward way ? Who is that 'i' ? When one does not
   know, when the search is still on, what do the moods of that stanger matter ?

   Most important, what really is the power of the 'I' ? Does it have power to search and find its own source ?
   Wherefrom does it acquire the strength to do so ? Does not the courage for the enquiry, the very ability to
   enquire, spring from Bhagwan's Grace ? Is it not Grace that drew us to Him, made us aware of His way and
   put on the path ? Is it not Grace that keeps us going ? Nad is it not Grace that is the very goal "

                    Great writing indeed !

                                                                                      Thank you.   

     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 17, 2010, 10:06:04 AM
  Sorry, the last sentence of the passage in the above post is, " And is it not Grace that is the very goal ?" 

                                                                                                                   Thank you
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on October 17, 2010, 06:55:42 PM
Thank you for your posts eranilkumarsinha,Subramanian.R.

I am just observing how discussing plays out and reveals some details not understood before. Consciousness has it ways.


Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 19, 2010, 09:33:06 AM
 Bhagwan Sri Ramana told following story to Sri Muruganar about Sri Dakshinamurty, the Adi Guru, the Guru of all
 Gurus,the one who taught in Silence,the speechless speech.

 When the four aged Sanakadi rishis approached Sri Dakshinamurty , they after doing three pradakshinas around Him
 and prostrating to Him, started asking very shrewd and pertinent questions about the nature of Reality and the
 means of attainig It. As the Guru answered each consecutive questions , further doubts arose in their minds and
 they still asked further questions. Thus Sri Dakshinamurty continued to clear their doubts for a year.

 Finally, however, the Guru understood that if He gave more answers to their questions, more doubts would arise in
 their minds and hence there would be no end to their ignorance. Therefore, He merged Himself into the supreme
 Silence. Because of their great maturity due to year-long association with the Sadguru, as soon as Sri
 Dakshinamurty thus merged Himself, they too were automatically merged within, into Silence, the state of Self.

 Wonder-struck on hearing Sri Bhagwan narrating the story in this manner, Sri Muruganar remarked that in no
 books is it mentioned that Sri Dakshinamurty ever spoke anything. "But this is what actually happened" replied
 Sri Bhagwan.

 From the manner in which Sri Bhagwan narrated the story, Sri Muruganar understood that Sri Bhagwan was none
 other than Sri Dakshinamurty Himself.

                                         ( Source-The Silent Mind , Sri Ramanashamam Publication )

                                                                                Thank you. 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 19, 2010, 09:46:21 AM
 Dear Devotees,

 Everything Sri Bhagwan said was for the benefit of His devotees. The manner in which Sri Bhagwan
 narrated the story of Sri Dakshinamurty ( Please see the above post ), contrary to common perception,has
 profound implication  for us all also.   

                                                                                   Thank you
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 19, 2010, 05:29:14 PM
 Dear Friends,

 Sri Arthur Osborne has dealt with the famous Descartes statement in a very, very beautiful poem.
 He has given the name 'Ergo Non Sum' to this poem. I remember that in Latin, this famous statement
 reads " Cogito Ergo Sum ".

                                                 ( Source- Be Still, It Is The Wind That Sings )

                  Ergo Non Sum

  " I think, therefore I am, " Descartes
    Was shrewd enough to say;
    Whereby unwittingly he showed the way
            How not to be.
        Let the mind be free
         From every thought,
      Yet conscious still, alert,
          And you will see:
 Awareness is- no one to be aware;
 Being remains, and yet you are not there. "

        How True ! Sri Descartes showed the world, unwittingly, unaware
        how not to be.

                                                                  Thank you                   
       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 21, 2010, 09:03:59 AM
 Devotee : Will there be realization of the Self even while the world is there  ( taken as real ) ?
 Bh         : There will not be.
 Devotee :  Why ?
 Bh         : THe seer and the object seen are like the rope and the snake. Just as the knowledge of the rope which
                is the substratum will not arise unless the false knowledge of the illusory serpent goes, so the
                realization of the Self which is the substratum will not be gained unless the belief that the world is real
                is removed. 
                                           
                                                 ( From Who am I )

 Sri Bhagwan said that "I" rise on waking and with this 'I" rises every thing else. "I" sink during deep sleep
 and with this spurious "I" sinks every thing else.

    What is this I?
     Who am I ?
 I ask this question because I do not know that which I call "I".But If I do not know this very "I" in this very
 sentence who is writing ? Who is arguing ?Who is worried about his pleasures and pains, sorrow and joys ?
 Who wants to bask in achievements ? Who wants to make grand plans and for whom ? Answer to all these 
 questions is a complete stranger whose very existence is subjected to intense scrutiny by Self-enquiry.
 The very locus-standi of this little "I" stands challenged by Self-enquiry.

 Sustained attention then on this I-thought is the natural outcome of the Self-enquiry and is key to awareness.
 But our love for this troublesome and false "I" is still greater than the love for the unknown. And this love for
 "I" ensures that it is not put in danger terminally.

                                                                  Thank you.

   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 21, 2010, 02:58:45 PM
 Dear Devotees,

 As the great and enlightened sage-poet, Sri Muruganar declared, Sri Bhagwan is the only All Pervading Reality
 and is the Self of all that is.And we are all here because of His All Pervading Grace only.

 Sri Bhagwan often asked, " Is the Self in the books ?"
 He said that the Self is within the five sheaths and the Self-enquiry is the only unfailing means to penetrate to
 that Reality.

 If Self-enquiry is pursued with genuine and real doubt about the 'I'-identity, internalization of the mind is
 the natural consequence and is spontaneous.

 Unless the mind is internalized, Self-attention can not fructify.And Self-attention is both the key as well as
 the door to the 'Awareness' that is the Goal. Thus unwavering,sustained and vigilant attention is the
 watch-word.

                                                                               Thank you,
                                                                   
                                                                                   Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 22, 2010, 09:38:42 AM



Dear sinha and srkudai,

Bhagavan Ramana has written one poem called Atma Vidya Kirtanam.
Sri Bhagavan never had any intention to write this poem.  But
Muruganar on the basis of Gopala Krishna Bharati's poem [Nandanar
Charitram], where Bharati had written:  "Lo, it is very tough, it is
very tough to get Siva's darshan", had written the first two lines
of this poem:

Lo, very easy is Self Knowledge,
Lo, very easy indeed.....

Muruganar then left the paper with Bhagavan. Sri Bhagavan
Ramana did not do anything with that for some time, after
that, He wrote the remaining lines:

1. Even for the most infirm
   So real is the Self
   That compared with it the amlak
    In one's hand appears a mere illusion.

It runs thus to six stanzas.

Devotees asked many questions to Bhagavan Ramana.  You
have written, "Be still, and Bliss wells up; the Experience of
eternity; absence of all fear; the ocean vast of Bliss...." 

Bhagavan Ramana said:  You try.  Perseverance is the key word.

Then Muruganar pointed out the last stanza:

Annamalai the Self, the Eye
Behind the eye of mind which sees
The eye and all other senses
Which know the sky and other elements,
The Being which contains, reveals, percevies
The inner sky that shines within the Heart
When the mind free of thought turns inward
Annamalai appears as my own Self.
TRUE, GRACE IS NEEDED; LOVE IS ADDED
BLISS WELLS UP.

The last two lines are the key.  Regardless of the time taken
and the toughness of the inquiry and intermittent despair
of the sadhak, the most important thing in the whole effort
is Grace.  This Grace is called Chit-Sakti, the dance of pulsating
I,I,I, before the mind becomes totally quiescent without further
mischief. 

Sri Bhagavan has mentioned this Sakti in one of the five hymns.
I shall write about it later.



Arunachala Siva. 
     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 22, 2010, 10:27:53 AM



Bhagavan Ramana mentions this Sakti in His Sri Arunachala Ashtakam,
Verse 6.  This Sakti is responsible for mind jumping out and having
a million thoughts.  The same Sakti directs the sadhak's mind
back to the Source and confers realization. 

Chitsakti chetana roopa
Jadasakti jadatmika

says Sri Lalita Sahasranamam.

Bhagavan Ramana says in Verse 6:

You alone exist, O Heart, the radiance of Awareness.  In You
a power mysterious dwells, a power without You is nothing.
From it [this power of manifestation] there proceeds, along with
a perceiver, a series of subtle shadowy whirl of prarabdha, appear
within as a shadowy spectacle of the world and appear without as
the world perceived by the five senses as a film projected through
a lens.  Whether perceived or unperceived, these [thoughts]
are nothing apart from You, O Hill of Grace.

Sri Devi Maahaatmyam, 11.8:

Sarvasya buddhi rupena janasya hrudhi samsthithe |
Swarga pavargathe devi narayanee namostuthe    ||

O Narayanee! O Devi!  You remain in the Heart of all Jivas,
as the power of buddhi.  You also confer heaven and liberation.
Prostrations to You. 



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on October 22, 2010, 06:07:01 PM
Your nature is vigilant.

By whom mind is able to try or is able to get tired? That alone is vigilant. That is You.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 22, 2010, 07:41:10 PM
 Dear Sri Subramanian Ji

 Thank you for citing one of the most sublime and divine poems 'Atma Vidya Kirtanam' and  from Lalita
 Sahasranamam and Sri Devi Maahaatyamam and certainly enlightening us on 'Chit-Sakti'. To me, it is like
 showering of Sri Bhagwan's Grace , you as the medium. I feel that the poem and the verses cited in your
 above post contain implicitly the solution to the problem, as you also mentioned in your post, encountered by most
 of the  sincere devotees of Sri Bhagwan. I also sincerely hope that it may also provide solution to  the problem
 raised by dear Sri Udai Shanker Ji.

                                                                          Thank you ,
                                                                        With Regards,
                                                                           Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 22, 2010, 07:52:20 PM
 Dear Sri amiatal,

 Yours is a  very, very nice post. Our nature is vigilant, always in the 'now'.A very nice and simple
 way to remind us of the culprit, or the thief, as Sri Bhagwan referred to the ego. Thank you .
     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 23, 2010, 11:31:28 AM
 Dear Sri Udai Shankar Ji,
                   Pranam,

 We are aware that we have three modes of manifestation as human beings namely being, thinking and doing.
 Sri Bhagwan said that merely to be is our duty as well as the goal. We also know , by the Grace of Sri
 Bhagwan that thinking and doing are played on the screen of our being , much like the picture reel is played on the
 cinema screen.Therefore, being is is the most fundamental and basic of the three. But we are so engrossed
 thinking and doing that our true nature as merely being is not revealed, although experienced all the time.

 Sri Bhagwan, out of compassion for the mankind,gave us the royal, royal Straight Path of Vichara or the
 Self-enquiry merely to be. He said that ' who am I ' question will kill all the thoughts at the very root, if practiced
 with perseverance in proper manner. He said  that  'who am I' neither  a verbal question to be  raised merely
 mechanically nor to be repeated like a mantra. Sri Bhagwan said that seeking the source of the central
 I-thought with keen intellect and abiding in the source constitute the Self-enquiry. Thoughts would naturally
 come but they are all to be killed one by one by the technique explained by Sri BHagwan.

 There is no doubt whatsoever in the efficacy of Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan.His so many devotees
 and their experiences are testimony of that only.Sri Bhagwan Himself has assured of success one day
 if Self-enquiry is practiced in the manner He taught. Internalization and the self attention will become
 gradually natural with perseverance.

 But Are we practicing the Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan ? If we raise 'who am I' question and at the 
 same time think myriad thoughts, it is certainly like beating the turtle om the wrong side as you mentioned.
 Who gets tired ?Who feels technique does not work ? I feel that this little 'i' should not be allowed to escape
 thus. When this little 'i' is subjected to intense enquiry, properly directed, it is bound to try to seek escape
 by such roots. Sri Bhagwan said our duty is to do this much and wait for the Guru's Grace to take over.

 And sa the great poet and devotee Sri Muruganar said, then the SElf-enquiry is more than hundred per cent
 sufficient.       

                                                                                  Thank you,
                                                                               With regards,
                                                                                     Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 23, 2010, 04:07:12 PM
 Dear Devotees,

 Total faith in one's chosen Marga is imperative for the
 success in a spiritual sadhana. How beautifully Sri
 Subramanian ji in his post has described, " This Sakti is
 responsible for jumping out and having a million thoughts,
 the same Sakti directs a sadhak's mind back to the Source
 and confers realization."

 And Grace and Love are the most vital elements in any
 sadhana. See Sri Subramanian ji's citation from 'Atma 
 Vidya Kirtanam':

 "When the mind free of thoughts turn inward
  Annamalai appears as my own Self.
  True, Grace is needed; Love is added
  Bliss well up."

 I do not find words to describe my feelings that wells up
 within my heart after reading the above stanza.


                                Thank you
                                  Anil   
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 24, 2010, 10:52:27 AM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Ji,
              Pranam,

 Dear Sir, I wish to know whether the first two lines or the stanza
 you cited in your post,

 " Lo, very easy is Self Knowledge,
   Lo, very easy indeed .............."

 are the first two lines or is the first stanza of the poem
 ' Atma Vidya Kirtanam '.

                                      Thank you,
                                          Anil

 

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 24, 2010, 11:17:43 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  These are the first two lines of the Atma Vidya Kirtanam.
One Sri Gopalakrishna Bharatiyar who wrote Nandanar [one of the
63 Saiva Saints] as a play, started saying "Oh it is very tough!
It is very tough indeed, to have darshan of Chidambaram Nataraja."
This is because, Nandanar was an outcaste and an agricultural labourer and the landlord did not give him leave to go to Chidambram, to have darshan of Nataraja.  Further, he was an
outcaste and the priests [those days] would not allow him to have
access to the inner sanctorum of the temple. So he was singing
like that.  [He ultimately had Nataraja darshan and this is a different
story.].

Muruganar on the basis of these two lines, wrote Lo, "it is easy
this self knowledge, easy indeed."   He requested Bhagavan Ramana
to complete the kirtanam.  Bhagavan Ramana wrote the remaining
stanzas.



Arunachala Siva.
 
     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 24, 2010, 03:49:47 PM
 Dear Sri Subramanian Ji,

 Thank you so much, Sir, for imparting to us the knowledge
 about the background that led to the composition of
 the divine song 'Atma Vidya Kirtanam'.

                                               With Regards,
                                                      Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 24, 2010, 04:19:12 PM
 Dear Devotees,

  Lo, very easy is Self-knowledge,
  Lo, very, easy indeed............

 The great poet and devotee, Sri Muruganar sang divine words of Sri Bhagwan effortlessly,
 pouring his heart out.

 Sri Bhagwan also said that of all the ways Self-enquiry is the easiest.
 But Sri Bhagwan also said that the desire for Self-realization while still
 holding on to the 'I am the body' idea is akin to crossing a river clinging
 to a crocodile.

 What do the above two statements of Sri Bhagwan mean to us ?
 My understanding is as following :
 They mean that so long as one identifies himself with the body, Self-knowledge is not easy.
 But when one ,by Grace, contemplation and earnest will to know the Truth,
 discards 'I am the body' idea and doubts genuinely the body-identity,
 Self-attention is effortless outcome of Self-enquiry leading to Self-awareness.

 And then only the Poet sings,

 Lo, very easy is Self-knowledge
 Lo, very easy indeed.............

                                                            Thank you
                                                               Anil
 


 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 24, 2010, 05:09:51 PM



Dear Anil,

Your interpretation is also good.  But what Bhagavan Ramana
told as to why it is easy, this Self Knowledge is:

1.  For good karmas like helping others, feeding others, building temples, running free schools, hospitals etc., one needs money
and people to assist him.

2.  For bhakti i.e. devotional path, one needs a god's image
by way of photos or idols and flowers, sandal paste, incense sticks,
camphor for lighting, coconuts, fruits and finally good sweets and cooked rice for submitting the same as Naivedyam, offering.

3.  For yoga marga, one needs a good physique, capacity to retain
breath within the lungs, concentration, etc.,

However for Self Knowledge, one does not need any outside
assistance or even a good physique.  One can even lie on the
bed, and inquire who am I?  One should only direct the attention
to the Self.  No specific place or time.  No wealth and health is
needed.  And that is why it is easy.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 24, 2010, 06:19:06 PM



Dear Anil,

In Talks No. 551, when someone asked about the Atma Vidya
being easy, Bhagavan Ramana gave the replies:

Q:  How is that Atma Vidya [Self Knowledge] is said to be the
easiest?

Bhagavan:  Any other vidya requires, a knower, knowledge, and the
object to be known, where this does not require any of them.
It is the Self.  Can anything be so obvious as that?  Hence it is
the easiest.  All that you do is to inquire, Who am I?

Bhagavan Ramana says the same thing in Verses 43 and 44 of
Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai:

43.  You are the sole Reality, O Arunachala, Reveal yourself
as such.

Okay, what we should do?  Even this Aruanchala says:

44.  How is it, O Arunachala, you told me:  "Turn and look within and ever seek the Self with the inner eye and you will see it".

What external things do we need for this?



Arunachala Siva.         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramanaduli on October 24, 2010, 06:57:51 PM
Dear Subramaniyan ji,


The main problem lies here, it is very difficult to turn around inside because the habit of going and looking outside for many many
janmas. Even if it is turned the mind does not stay for a second. As Bhagavan says grace is necessary for everything.
It is like URIADI UTCHAVAM. Many many slips between cups and lips.


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 25, 2010, 09:44:28 AM



Dear ramanaduli,

Yes.  I fully agree with you.  It is easier said than done.  The mind
is so attuned to jump outside [because of vasanas] and we always
try to search the Truth through external forms like worships, dhana,
dharma, etc.,  Bhagavan Ramana never criticized these things. 
For many devotees, these things were going on side by side along
with self inquiry.  But what He said that the Self is ever more directly
perceivable than even the nellikai [amla fruit] on the palm.

Annamalai Swami has mentioned this somewhere in his conversations.

   

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 25, 2010, 10:14:32 AM



From Living by the Words of Bhagavan:  [David Godman]

Bhagavan:  As an example of direct perception, everyone will quote
the simile of the nellikai [amla fruit] placed on the palm of the hand.
The Self is even more directly perceivable than the fruit on the palm.
To perceive the fruit, there must be the fruit, the palm to place it on
and the eyes to see it.  The mind should also be in the proper condition [to process the information].  Without any of these four
things, even those with very little knowledge can say out direct
experience, "I am".  Because the Self exists just the feeling "I am".
Atma Vidya [Self Knowledge] is very easy indeed.  The easiest path is to see the one who is going to attain the Atma.

Another devotee asked a similar question in a little later and Bhagavan gave a similar reply:

Question:  Why cannot the Self be perceived directly?

Bhagavan:  Only the Self is said to be directly perceived [pratyaksha].  Nothing else is said to be pratyaksha.  Although,
we are having this pratyaksha, the thought "I am this body" is veiling it.  If we give up this thought, the Atma, which is always within the direct experience of everyone, will shine forth.



Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 25, 2010, 12:38:52 PM



Dear srkudai,

Yes.  What you say is correct.  The Self is self revealing.  Aparoksha.
This is more clearly explained by Bhagavan Ramana, in Talks No. 466.

Question:  Is not the Self the witness only?  Sakshimatra?

Bhagavan:  "Witness" is applicable when there is an object to be
seen.  Then it is duality.  The truth lies beyond both.  In the mantra,
sakshi cheta kevalo nirgunascha, the word 'Sakshi' must be understood as Sannidhi - Presence, without which there could be nothing.  See how the sun is necessary for daily activities.  He does
not form part of the world actions.  Yet they cannot take place without the sun.  He is the witness of activities.  So it is with the
Self.     

Again in Day By Day, entry dated 18th July 1946:

Bhagavan:  Talking of "witness"  should not lead to the idea
that there is a witness and something else apart from him that he
is witnessing. The 'Witness' really means the light that illumines
the seer, the seen and the process of seeing.  Before, during and
after the triads of seer, seen, and seeing, the illumination exists.
It alone exists always.

You remember, srkudai, sometime back, there was some discussion
on "witnessing the consciousness".  Consciousness cannot be witnessed.  Consciousness Is.  If someone had mentioned so, it
is only in the light of this explanation by Bhagavan Ramana.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 25, 2010, 12:59:20 PM



The Self is not giving any experience.  Bhagavan Ramana says
It illumines.  This illumination will confer the experiencer to experience
the Bliss.  He is simply blissful, Sat-Chit-Anandam.  That is all.
In that state of Bliss only, Mastan Swami remained standing in front
of Bhagavan Ramana for 7 hours.  Devaraja Mudaliar had this experience for a few minutes when he was sitting close to Bhagavan
Ramana one day, and when Bhagavan Ramana gazed at him, suddenly. Major Chadwick had it in his bath tub, and came running to Bhagavan Ramana with wet towel around his waist.  He asked:  "Bhagavan! Is it so simple?"  Bhagavan Ramana smiled and said:
Yes. It is.

I think this is some sort of a transmission of the power of the Presence. Or it can also be called Guru Krupa.  Sri Ramakrishna transmitted to Vivekananda, something similar to it.  I am not sure.   



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 25, 2010, 03:06:08 PM



To be ever free, restful is itself bliss.

Bhagavan Ramana says in Sad Darsanam, Verse 32:

For him who is the bliss Self, arising from the extinction of the ego,
what is there to do?  He knows nothing other than this Self.  How
to conceive the nature of his state?

Bhagavan's Verse 7 in Guru Vachaka Kovai:

Tranquillity of mind is alone, the liberation that is ever attained.
This being so, prey tell, how can those who set their mind on
siddhis, which cannot be gained without mental movement, become
immersed in the bliss of liberation that is free from the perturbation of the mind?

Bhagavan Ramana says in Verse 37:

If I slumber in quiet repose enjoying the bliss of being, what other
moksha is there, tell me, O Arunachala!




Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 28, 2010, 09:14:13 AM
 Dear Sri Subramanian Ji and Sri Udai Shankar Ji,

 Thank you so much for a very,very fruitful and satisfying discussion.
 My understanding about the nature of Self is the same as you have indicated in your posts.

 Self is Self-luminous and, therefore, Self-revealing.Self is Absolute Consciousness or Supreme Consciousness.
 Only and only It is.It admits of no thought whatever.Only vast Silence, nay, Infinite Silence of speechless speech,
 beyond mind and words.Even saying as the above is only for us, the sadhakas, for the purpose of discussion
 and intellectual understanding.

 Dear Sri Udai Shankar, I agree totally with you that indisputable content of the 'experience' is That about which
 nothing can be said whatever.

 Sri Bhagwan's reply, in this context, with the analogy the Sun, is the most apt one we can ever hope to get.
 It is Illumination.
 Presence.
 Like the Sun which is the cause of every thing.And in its mere  presence every activity is taking place.
 But the Sun will continue to shine even without these.

                                                                               Thank you,
                                                                               With Regards,
                                                                                     Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 28, 2010, 09:32:49 AM
 Dear Sri Subramanian ji

 Sir, I also do not understand the premise of one 'consciousness witnessing the other consciousness'.
 Consciousness can not be witnessed. Only Consciousness is. They are all the tricks of the ego to
 escape when subjected to intense search light of Sef-enquiry.


                                                                                 Thank you,
                                                                               With Regards,
                                                                                   Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 28, 2010, 09:42:34 AM



Dear Anil,

Consciousness shines and illumines others.  It is not witnessed.
It witnesses the three stages of jagrat, swapna and sushupti.
It witnesses, the creation, sustenance and dissolution of the
world.  Bhagavan Ramana says in Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam
Verse 2:

As on a screen a wondrous picture,
On You fair Hill, is all this world
Formed, sustained and then withdrawn,
Ever as "I" in the heart, you dance,
Hence are you called the Heart.

HEART = ATMA = ARUNACHALAM = CONSCIOUSNESS.

Consciousness is the ocean of grace.  It is also the glittering
sun.  It makes the heart blossom, like the sun makes the lotus
blossom -  Verse 1 of the same.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 28, 2010, 11:26:08 AM
 Dear Sir, I feel grateful.The content of your above post makes a great sense and a meaning to me which
 which is at once profound and deep but at the same time bestowing intuitive understanding as well as awareness
 of the essence in the post.

 However, dear Sir, I wish to listen enlightened and graceful words from you about how
 ' Full of Nectar' and 'Ocean of Grace' in the first verse of the 'Arunachala Panchratanam'
  should be understood by us sadhakas? 
                                                                 
                                                       With Regards,
                                                            Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on October 28, 2010, 07:31:46 PM
Can we really be sure that Consciousness is not witnessed? What if this Consciousness happens to You? And You are a mere witness, not a witness of an object, but a witness to whom all this happen.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 28, 2010, 08:31:27 PM



Dear amiatall,

Bhagavan Ramana used to describe this through three avasthas.
Avastha means change.  What are the changes that Consciousness
is witnessing?  It is witnessing Jiva's wakeful state, swapna and
deep sleep.  But we cannot witness Consciousness.  In deep sleep
also there is Consciousness.  But in deep sleep we do not witness
it, though mind is in suspended animation.  Consciousness gives
sukam, bliss, to the Jiva.  Even this bliss which is of course, temporary, is not experienced by Jiva during deep sleep.  Only
in the morning, we say we had blissful sleep.

Consciousness shines and it illumines the Jiva. Consciousness is
simply IS.  That is why it is called Turiya, beyond, Vaisvanara,
[ a name given symbolically for wakeful state, Taijasa, the dream
state.  Why dream is called Taijasa, light?  Because in swapna,
where there is no light or five senses operating, it is the mind
which gives light to the dreams.  That is why we see dreams, we
see colourful dreams.  Even the born blind is said to listen to sounds in his dream, since the mind is there but the eyes cannot see.
The third state is Prajna, again symbolic of consciousness which is there in deep sleep, minus body and mind, but it gives awareness by means of making one enjoy the sukam.

Then there is the fourth state, Turiya.  Actually it is said Turiya which is literally the fourth state. But it is not fourth state, it is beyond, three states, the transcendental state.  A person who has attained Brahma Jnana is every in this state.  He is wakeful even in sleep.  He is sleeping in the wakeful state. He is sleeping in sleepless state!  This is Sukam.

Bhagavan Ramana says in Verse 37 of Sri AAMM:

If I slumber in quiet repose enjoying the Bliss of Being, what other
moksha is there, O Arunachala!

The transcendental state is Moksha, it is the Bliss of Being.  It is
simply Is.  It cannot be witnessed by anything else.  It is all
experiential.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 29, 2010, 09:01:42 AM
 Dear Sri amiatall,

 I have seldom seen so much clarity brought about upon the subject
 under discussion as Sri Subramanian ji has done in the above post.
 We will remain indebted to him.

 Dear Sri amiatall, 'Consciousness is' as 'I am'. When 'Consciousness is' or 'I am', I am not Anil or amiatall or
 i,you,or
 he, she etc to say even 'I am'.When I am Anil or amitall, I do not palpably experience 'I am'. How beautifully,
 by the simile of sleep, Sri Subramanian ji has made it easy to grasp. Please see:

 " Even this bliss which is of course, temporary, is not experienced by jiva during deep sleep. Only in the
   morning, we say we had blissful sleep."

                                                                               Thank you,
                                                                                  Anil     
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on October 29, 2010, 10:58:01 AM



How Consciousness reveals itself?  It is no doubt, ever there in
every living being.  But only for those who have understood and
convinced that the world, jiva are unreal, it reveals itself as Real.
Then one becomes the Reality.

This revelation does not require scriptural reading. It needs only
inquiry into one's real nature, intense desire for the Self, and a Guru's grace.  Bhagavan Ramana says in Verse 40 of Sri AAMM:

With no knowledge and with only blind desire for you, I have
begun the quest and am tired.  To end this weariness, give me the
clear knowledge to carry on the quest, O Arunachala.

In Verse 42, again He says:

You are beyond the knowledge of all tattvas, all philosophies.
You are only this, the Truth at once and transcendent and immanent,
you are my Arunachala.

In Verse 43 again He says:

You are the sole Reality, O Arunachala, Reveal Yourself as such.

In Verse 44, He says:

How is it, O Arunachala, You told me, 'Turn within and look and ever seek the Self with the inner eye and you will see it."?

In Verse 45, He says:

Faint-hearted though my search was, I have, by your grace, attained the Self, O Arunachala!



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 29, 2010, 07:58:25 PM
 Dear Sri Subramanian Ji,

  Thank you so much, Sir, for a very exhilarative post and for reminding us that
 so long as the world is taken as real, knowledge of the 'Substratum' i.e. Self
 can not be gained. Besides, your affirmation that neither scriptural knowledge
 nor an exceptionally strong heart are prerequisite for Self-Realization is not less
 exhilarative.

                                                                    With Regards,


                                                                          Anil


















   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on October 29, 2010, 09:12:20 PM
Yes, Subramanian.R always elucidates the facts and that is very helpful. Thank you.


 Dear Sri amiatall, 'Consciousness is' as 'I am'. When 'Consciousness is' or 'I am', I am not Anil or amiatall or
 i,you,or he, she etc to say even 'I am'.When I am Anil or amitall, I do not palpably experience 'I am'.
 


Am I reading it wrong or is there an implication that there is something in You which at one time experiences 'I AM' and at other time do not palpably experience 'I AM'?

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 30, 2010, 09:24:42 AM
 Dear Devotees,

  Nothing is real except our own Self. Nothing to worry and be anxious about . No real reason to be elated and
 joyful about either.All our desires and wishes,all our plans, all our ambitions, all our actions, all our discussions and
 arguments,all our cravings, all our difficulties, all our losses and gains, all our achievements and failures, etc. that
 is all, that rule us in this relative and illusory world are mere thoughts or thought oriented. All system of forms
 are mere appearances on our own being.

  Thoughts, thoughts and only thoughts are they all. Dear Devotees, are they not? From waking to sleep, our
 thought tortured mind no respite from them ever. A thought rises, has its stay till another thought takes its
 place. Sri Bhagwan says that these very thoughts veil our true nature as Self or as Existence, Consciousness
 and Bliss. WE are now also aware, by the Grace of Sri Bhagwan, that all these thoughts are for the thinker
 only.

  Sri Bhagwan, out of compassion for us, manufactured and gave us the holistic Self-enquiry to cut these very
 thoughts including the I-thought at the roots i.e.the Source.There are twin divine and unfailing swords
 in the armoury  of the Self-enquiry.

 Divine Sword No  1
 Who am I?
 When we raise 'Who am I' question, it is bound to cut all thoughts connected with the I- thought or the thinker  at the root and result in instantaneous Self- attention.Attention reverts back to the thinker from the general thoughts connected with it.This is how general thoughts are to be dealt with.

 Divine Sword No  2
 Whence Am I ?
 When the thinker is thus held, it is time to resort to the second divine sword. When we raise 'Whence Am  I'
 question, seeking keenly its Source, it gradually merges in the Source i.e. Self. Once the Taste of Bliss Supreme
 is savoured, It exerts a very powerful magnetic pull to the mind and the mind then seeking its Source ever
 to savour the same Taste irrevocably merge in the Self.

 Sri Bhagwan says, " The 'I' casts off the illusion of 'I' and yet remains as 'I'. Such is the paradox Self-Realization."

                                                                      Thank you

                                                                         Anil

       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 30, 2010, 05:04:21 PM
  There is only one real impostor in the true sense and that need not be looked for elsewhere but that is
 our ego or the thinker. It is such a well seasoned rogue that it bandies around about all pervading
 Self to be itself. It hankers after the name, fame and wealth of all sorts. It abhors sorrows and exults in pleasures
 and joys. It knows no contentment. It enjoys pampering and feels self important. It goes on throwing its weight
 around. It is covetous and arrogates to itself whatever suits it.

     Who is it that deprives us from knowing our true being as Existence, Consciousness and Bliss ?
 If we are convinced about our real nature as Bliss Itself, why tolerate the 'raison d'etre' for all our woes
 which perpetuates our miserable lives in this mind projected world of the phenomena. Perhaps we lack in
 conviction.  Sri Ram Krishana Param Hans used to narrate a story in which a thief sleeps soundly
 in a room unaware that in the adjacent room lies a hidden treasure. Knowing this, can the thief sleep at all?
 No way.

 What is this feeling of 'I' ?
 Who am I?
 Whence am I ?

 Dear devotees, this 'I' holds sovereign power so long as a proper enquiry is not afoot. When an earnest enquiry
 is set up, it takes to flight like the impostor in the marriage party.

 There is no doubt that 'Who am I' question ends the suzerainty of the connected thoughts and
 'Whence am I' question reins in and merges the sovereign thinker himself in the Source from where it daily
 rises on waking  and where it daily rests in sleep.

                                                                         Thank you
                                                                            Anil     
 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 31, 2010, 09:52:57 AM
  Dear devotees, a passage from the Mountain Path is quoted. I feel that the content of the passage is of the
 paramount importance to those who practice Self-enquiry. I myself became gradually enamoured with it.

  " If one's discrimination is clear and sharp and if one has the innermost feeling that one's suffering has no end on
 the individual level and that there is no way in which we can go beyond the ego if we use the mind, then the
 method of enquiry can take an altogether different turn. When we first try the method of Self-enquiry, asking
 ourselves 'Who am I ?' this because of our trust in Bhagwan or the scriptures. This means that our enquiry
 does not arise from our own existential doubt about our identity. It merely parrots what is actually Ramana's
 question or someone else's question. But until the question 'Who am I ? What am I ?' becomes our own question,
 burning and all-consuming, arising from our own existential experience of our helplessness and desperate seeking,
 until then we will not be practicing Self-enquiry.Because it is only when we are totally consumed by this
 investigation, this search for our true nature ,that we will experience the profound power of this method.
 We will then experience Self-enquiry as a state of deep stillness that has the capacity to cut off the very
 root of our habitual, unconscious, thinking pattern. Enquiry that does not arise from our own existential
 insecurity, anxiety and despair is merely a repetitive exercise that ends up becoming dry and monotonous, or
 inducing sleep. It is not the Path Bhagwan taught, which wakes us up to our ever-existing real nature.

 The question 'Who am I ?' must arise spontaneously and naturally. Without genuine doubt as to one's true
 nature, self-questioning becomes mechanical and dry. "

                                                              Thank you,
                                                                  Anil
                       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 31, 2010, 10:19:09 AM
 However, elsewhere in the same article, the author writes as a concession,

 " And I do not mean that we should not try to do Self-enquiry when we feel no existential doubt.
 Irrespective of whether our Self-enquiry arises naturally or not, we should subdue all thoughts,
 without thinking about any thing, and enquire 'Who am I ?' Eventually genuine self-questioning
 will arise, and with it will come an experience of profound peace that is spontaneous. Through practicing
 in this way one automatically enters a mode of being where Self-enquiry - the investigation
 of the ego-mind arises naturally again and again, repeatedly bringing an experience of deep sleep.
 Through practice one gets addicted to this dynamic peace which is one's own true nature."

                                                                                                 Author-Swami Madhurananda,
                                                                                                    April-JUly 2006
                                                                                                     Mountain Path
     
                                                                        Thank you
                                                                           Anil
   
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 31, 2010, 10:27:34 AM
  Dear devotees, I am sorry but in the second line from the
 last line in the above post it should be read, "....repeatedly bringing an experience of deep peace. "

                                        Thank you
                                          Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on October 31, 2010, 04:08:40 PM
  yes, it will not be difficult to infer that there will be vast difference between the enquiry when it arises from
 the existential doubt and when it is merely a repetitive exercise that ends up becoming dry and monotonous.


  Moreover, it is essential that we should have the absolute conviction that there is no answer to the
  question 'Who am I ?' on the level of the thinker and his thoughts or at the level of the empirical realities.
  Since any answer that arises from the intellect must be utterly false. Swami Madhurananda says that
  if one thinks one knows the answer, enquiry comes to an end then and there, because the mind, instead of
  becoming still, is filled with thoughts. Yes, I feel that total attention should remain only on the ego or the
  thinker. Any solution suggested by the ego is a  thought only; be it the watching consciousness or the
  witnessing consciousness.

                                                                                     Thank you
                                                                                        Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 01, 2010, 08:01:42 AM
 

   Sri Bhagwan said:

  " Born of forms
    Feeding on forms, ever changing its form
    Itself formless, this ego-ghost
    takes to its heels on enquiry. "
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 01, 2010, 08:10:21 AM



Dear Anil,

The question may become answerless immediately [15 minutes in
the case of Bhagavan Ramana] or it may become answerless after
several births.  The moment it becomes answerless, it becomes
Jnana Vicharam and Jnana Bodham.

In Upadesa Saram, Verse 19,  Bhagavan Ramana says:

The Place where this "I" thought arises, what and whence?  Thus
when one seeks to find within, the "I" thought without rising will
lay down its head and die.  This is the quest of wisdom. [Jnana
Vicharam].

Again in Verse 20, He says:

In the place where the thought of ego as "I" non-dually merges as
"I", "I", that thing with awareness of Being, spontaneously on its own
without effort, shining, appears.  Shining by Its very nature, that is the
Infinite, all-full, [Poornam], Supreme Being.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 01, 2010, 08:38:12 AM
 Dear Sri Subramanian Ji

  Thank you so much for giving us the verse no  20 of the Upadesa Saram
  in a very beautiful manner of interpretation, as " ...........the thought of ego as 'I'
  non-dually merges as 'I', 'I'...". Dear Sir, can it be said like this that at the point of merging
  the consciousness part of the ego merges with the Absolute Consciousness
  and the insentient part, merely being an idea or a thought, simply vanishes
  or disappear ?

                                                                              With Regards,

                                                                                   Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 01, 2010, 08:58:05 AM



Dear Anil,

Permanently abiding in egoless state is liberation, says the last
verse of Sad Darsanam. 



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 01, 2010, 10:58:03 AM



In Sanskrit they use Brahman and Para-Brahman.  For want of more
exact words in English, they use  Supreme Consciousness or
Supreme Self.,

Bhagavan Ramana has said in the last verse of Sat Darsnam:

"ayum ahandai uru azhidhal mukti unaR..."  Thus inquiring to know,
the ego, the annihilation of its very form is the true state of liberation, -- realize thus..."

In answer to question No. 12 in Who am ?, Bhagavan Ramana
says:

The birthplace of mind and prana are the same.  Thought is the
form of mind.  I thought is the mind's first thought.  This is ego.

Hence, thoughtless state or egoless state is liberation.

I trust that Bhagavan Ramana knows about this much better
than all of us.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 01, 2010, 12:48:28 PM



Brahman and Para Brahman are two ways in which scriptures have
used it in various works.

It will take quite a good time, to reach bodiless state, but one
can surely venture to attain egoless state.

Muruganar says:

To reach the Heart in such a way that the ego ceases to be.
Any effort to reach the Heart that relies primarily on ego-
consciousness will be utterly futile. This is why it has been
said relying on the grace of God as the primary support.

He further says in Padamalai:

Verse  1210:

Everything that one has learned is total falsehood if it does not
become a means for mind-consciousness to subside within the Heart.

Guru Vachaka Kovai Verse 1003:

The space of consciousness, the Heart, the Self, is the supreme
sun that never has any rising and setting.  In the presence of this
sun, the mind of the Atma Jnani is visible like the moon that appears in broad day light in this vast world.

Guru Vachaka Kovai Verse 1139:

If it is asked, 'We actually see the Jnani performing actions.  How
can actions be performed in the absence of sense of doership?'
you should be convinced that because of his inner attachment
[the ego] is dead, he has God himself residing in his Heart, and
performing those actions. 

[Tr. David Godman]

Bhagavan:  The Jnani is Bhuma.  Bhuma is the Supreme - yatra
naanyat pasyati yatra naanyat srunoti sa Bhuma.  Where one does not see any other, hears nothing, it is perfection.  It is indefinable
and indescribable.  It is as it is. 

Padamalai Verse 634:

Only the resplendent abode - Parandama -, whose nature is
Consciousness of being and which surges as Bhuma [the immanent reality], is the non dual Self, the Supreme.

[Tr. David Godman]     



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 01, 2010, 02:05:42 PM



The thoughtless state and bodiless state need not go together.
Again thoughtless state is a state where thoughts are non existent.
But bodiless state is not a state where body is non existent.  The
JNANI DOES NOT IDENTIFY HIMSELF WITH THE BODY REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE BODY IS EXISTING OR NOT.  This is only
for a Jivan Mukta, because the 'body' continues even after attainment
of Jnana. 

Sri Sankara also says in Viveka Chudamani, that a Jivan mukta
does not care whether his body eventually falls on a river, or near
a siva temple or under a tree.
 
G.V. Subbaramaiah says in his Sri Ramana Reminiscences:

Just as a man blinded with drunkenness sees not the cloth he
has on, so the Self realized Jnani knows not whether the perishable body is existent or non existent, whether by force of karma it has
gone from him or come to him.

Bhagavan, in Day by Day, entry dated, 19th November 1946:

Does the Jnani say he has a body?   He may look to you as having
a body and doing things with the body, as others do.  The burnt
rope still looks like a rope, but it can't serve as a rope if you try
to bind anything with it.  So long as one identifies oneself with the
body all this is difficult to understand.



Arunachala Siva.

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramana_maharshi on November 01, 2010, 06:39:23 PM
Nice discussion.

Even our guru ramana felt tooth pain and they called doctor to cure that pain.

I feel it is not fair to suggest to someone who is feeling with toothpain that it is only a thought and suggest to remove that thought.

I feel after reading bhagavan's life i think i can safely conclude that as far as possible and depending on our intense sadhana it is possible to some extent to forget pain associated with our body.

Regarding thoughtless state i feel in theory it is possible to quote 1000's verses from diff texts but people should not forget that only when we have thoughts we can quote these texts related to thoughtless state  :)

If really someone suggests thoughtless state i suggest they take medicine like anesthesia throughout their life which will solve their problem.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 01, 2010, 07:34:04 PM



Egoless state or thoughtless state take one inward and one can
experience Swarupam.  We cannot say, on the same count, that, Bhagavan Ramana felt the body pain, He must also have thoughts like that occasionally.  Because, even if thoughts do come, actions do come, it is only the God within that is causing them.  Whereas even if Bhagavan Ramana is said to be in bodiless state, the onlookers are seeing the body, acting, and doing things.   In one of the quotes, I have given above, Bhagavan Ramana has said:  It is from your point of view that a Jnani has got a body.  The real situation is that He kept the body away from His Swarupam, as if
it is remaining as a different jada pathartha.  Even when there were
pains, He did not say, "I am having pain."  He said that the body is
having pain. It is like saying that flowers in your balcony flower
pot is withering due to sun. The flower pot is away from you.
Whenever body pain occurred, He never said that "I am having pain"
or "MY body is having pain."  Thus He remained in total non identification with the body as His.

The body will not say I.  Even in our cases, if my hand is amputated
and is lying on a basin in the hospital, I shall not identify myself
with that hand.  Nor the hand will say, I am Subramanian. Bhagavan Ramana treated the whole body like that, whether the body was inn good health or in pain.

This bodiless state does not happen to all Brahma Jnanis.  Jnanis
like Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Sivananda have cried when there
was pain.  But these two were also in the ego less state, but the identification came, when the misery became unbearable and they were forced to identify the bodies on such occasions.
Once Sri Vivekananda said:  "I am talking about Brahman and
Advaita, but when some stone hits my toe, I cry, O I am pained."

But we have no anecdote on Bhagavan Ramana crying,
when He had suffered such indescribable pain during two years of His terminal illness.     

Dear prasanth,

We are all talking about Bhagavan's state, and not our own states.
Our own states have got, "I thought" and a million other thoughts
trailing behind it.  Even if we say we are egoless and truly so,
the state of bodilessness will take a longer time to achieve.
Because once we achieve egoless state, the mind would no longer pain.  But body will continue with  pain because of our thicker identification with the body.         



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 01, 2010, 09:26:50 PM
  Dear Sri Udai Shankar Ji,

 The reason why we have to face the awkward predicament is on account of the fact that we are trying to discuss the content of the natural state from the stand point of and our present existing state of concept-based empirical realities. I wish to explain it as following :-
 
  Sri Bhagwan has said that there is neither the past nor the future. Only the present is. Nay, only ‘now’ is. ’Now’ transcends the concept of the time itself. ‘Now’, ‘now’….ever ‘now’, all pervading solid,
perfect ‘stillness now’ is the only ‘Reality’. In natural state , there absolutely can not be any deviation from ‘now’. Experiencing of  natural happiness or ‘Bliss’ is ever ‘now’. ‘Now’ is synonymous with natural state or the thoughtless state or the experiencing of ‘Bliss’. When in the ‘now’ , you experience your own Self only, thoughtless  conceptless, choiceless,….The moment you utter Natural state , Supreme State etc,, you have already deviated from ‘now’ to either past or future and element of time has been introduced in that which is devoid of all these. Ego’s sovereignty is the order of the day then.
But Self is untouched and remains as illumination i.e.  source and the light by which it ( ego ) is apprehended,  all the while.
You yourself have explained it so beautifully in one of your posts by the simile of ‘forms in space’.

 Dear Sri Udai Shankar Ji, what made you express the view that I would disagree from most of your view points expressed in the above posts. You know we have been taught that there is essential unity in spiritual matters. Reconciliation is the watch word for me. Rather I totally agree with you. Experience, natural state, thoughtless state, Supreme Consciousness, .. can not be the  true expression of the ‘Reality’. You are aware that they are merely indicators or hints of the ‘Real’ , coined out of compassion, by the realized sages for mankind. Nevertheless, they are all in the realm of the thoughts  only, are  not they , Sir ?  But their function  as I understand is to convince us of the necessity to internalize and ‘be’. But perhaps discussion is essential to understand the futility of the discussion.
 Sri Bhagwan says : “ The  intellect is a help for realization up to a certain stage . Even so , realize that the Self transcends the intellect- the latter itself must vanish to reach the Self ”. Thank you.

                                                                                             With Regards,
                                                                                                   Anil       Anil                                                                                                                                                                           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: silentgreen on November 02, 2010, 07:52:08 AM
Sri Ramakrishna never identified himself with the body. It was a play to him.
Once during throat cancer when Sri Ramakrishna was complaining of pain, Swami Turiyananda took courage and said:
"Sir, whatever you may say, I see you as an infinite ocean of bliss."
At this Sri Ramakrishna said to himself with a smile: "This rascal has found me out!"
In fact Sri Ramakrishna was in such an exalted state that nothing can be said about him.

Swami Vivekananda after leaving his body came to Shashi Maharaj in dream and told him: "Shashi! I have spat out my body".

No Brahma Jnani identifies himself with the body. In the outward life, the body needs to follow the laws of nature. There is normally no exception to this.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 02, 2010, 08:21:14 AM



Dear silentgreen and others,

I think, Talks No. 343 given below should answer most of our points
in the discussion.

Devotee:  Even as the hand is cut off, one must remain unaware of it
because Bhagavad Gita declares that the Self is different from the body.

Bhagavan:  Does Jnana  consist in being unaware of the pain of
injury?

Devotee:  Should he not remain unaware of the pain?

Bhagavan:  Major operations are performed under anaesthetics,
keeping the patient unaware of the pain.  Does the patient gain
Jnana too, at the same time?  INSENSIBILITY TO PAIN CANNOT
BE JNANA.

Devotee:  Should not a Jnani be insensible to pain?

Bhagavan:  Physical pain only follows the body-consciousness.  It
cannot be in the absence of body-consciousness. Mind, being unaware of body, cannot be aware of its pains or pleasures.  Read
the story of Indra and Ahalya in Yoga Vasishta.  There, death is
itself is said to be an act of mind.  PAINS ARE DEPENDENT ON
THE EGO.  THEY CANNOT BE WITHOUT THE 'I' BUT I CAN REMAIN
WITHOUT THEM.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 02, 2010, 08:26:00 AM
  Dear Sri silentgreen,

 Thank you for a very nice post.
 No Brahma Jnani identifies
 with his body. The examples of Sri Bhagwan,
 Sri Ram Krishna Param Hans and other realized sages
 are there for all of us to understand.

 Besides, I feel that the most appropriate counseling in this
 context has been given by Sri Bhagwan Himself and
 which has been mentioned by Sri Subramanian ji in his post,
 " We are talking about Sri Bhagwan's state, and not about
 our own states."

                                                            Thank You,
                                                               Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 02, 2010, 08:35:11 AM
  True, I am vile, you immaculate.
  But I have reached your feet and stand before you
  Lord supreme, you can transmute
  All that you touch into yourself.
  Such is your glory. Then it is your duty,
  Blue-throated friend within me dwelling
  Ramana, mighty Lord, your duty,
  To turn me into Shiva and make me shine.

                                          Sri Muruganar
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: silentgreen on November 02, 2010, 09:06:47 AM
The sensation of pain has been given by God himself to preserve the body.
Without pain, while sleeping rats may come and eat out the whole body and go away. God has created the body and given the appropriate means to preserve the body.

In the story of Sri Krishna the last lesson taught by Sandipani Muni to Sri Krishna and Balaram was astral travel. On the day of the lesson the room of meditation was locked and persons placed as guards outside the room. This was because during astral travel, the body will lie like dead bodies and people mistaking for corpse may cremate them.

While prana is there in the body, appropriate means are also there to ensure that the body does not get destroyed. Hunger and thirst is there for regular nourishment, pain is there to detect corrosive influences, urge of excretion is there for elimination etc.

To a Brahma Jnani, the body is a doll and God is the player. Hunger, thirst, pains are different pranic currents of God. Hunger, thirst, pains can be trancended in meditation. Swami Turiyananda himself had an operation on his back without anasthesia. The other Swami who looked at the outpour of blood swooned but Swami Turiyananda was sitting like a hill. For a Brahma Jnani, the ego itself is a doll of God. Before Jnana, vasana seem to pull the strings, after Jnana, God Himself seem to pull the strings.

That is why Sri Ramakrishna used to say, "I am the puppet, Mother is the player".
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 02, 2010, 10:31:25 AM



From Annamalai Swami - Final Talks: [Ed. David Godman]

Question:  How does the Jnani relate to his body?  How does it
feel to him?

Annamalai Swami: The Jnani is no really aware of the body.  Or, if
he is, he feels it like Akasa, Space itself.

After one of the operations to remove the tumour on Bhagavan's
arm had been completed, I was worried enough to send a girl who
worked for me to the Asramam to ask how Bhagavan was.  I could
not go myself because Bhagavan had asked me not to visit Him.
When the girl told Bhagavan why she had come, He started laughing
very loudly.  I interpreted this to mean that nothing really had happened.  His laughter was a message to me that Bhagavan was not His body and that I should therefore not be upset or worried
by anything that happened to it. 

Years before, I was walking on the Hill with Bhagavan when He remarked:  "I don't feel the weight of the body at all.  I feel as if
I am walking weightlessly through the sky.."

I sometimes have the same feeling when I am walking around.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: silentgreen on November 02, 2010, 10:48:32 AM
Dear srkudai,

Quote
The story if given of a devotee travelling in a train was holding all his luggage on his head.
All he had to do to escape the suffering was to put down the luggage.

In this train-luggage analogy, I feel that the main stress is not whether the devotee puts down the luggage or not, but that the devotee realised that he/she is traveling in a train. A Jnani knows beyond doubt that a train is carrying everyone. A normal person is unaware/doubtful about the train itself.

For Sri Ramakrishna, Divine Mother is the train and we are all passengers.
A monkey cub partly on its strength and partly surrendered to mother goes wherever the mother carries it. A kitten fully surrendered goes whereever the mother carries it.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 02, 2010, 11:58:11 AM



Dear srkudai,

I often tend to quote Guru Vachaka Kovai and Padamalai, because
I consider these two books as dictionary of Bhagavan's teachings.
They are the direct and correct English translations by David Godman
of Muruganar's works, which were verified by Bhagavan Ramana for
their correctness and content.  That is the reason.  I honestly feel
that our own descriptions and explanations and analysis are often less accurate than these writings of the great devotee Muruganar.

I have read Guru Vachaka Kovai and Padamalai, both in Tamizh
and in English [David's].  This was a project for me for about two
months.  I came to the conclusion, that to describe Bhagavan and
His teachings, these should be relied upon first.  After all one
cannot write new grammar than what is available in Wren and Martin.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramana_maharshi on November 02, 2010, 12:53:51 PM
100% i agree with you udai garu.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 02, 2010, 01:35:47 PM



Dear srkudai,

This has been explained by me, many times in the past.

Sri Ramana Reminiscences, G.V. Subbaramaiah:

Bhagavan:  And if it is held that a man cannot be considered a Jnani
so long as he performs action in the world [ and action is impossible
without the mind], then not only the great sages who carried on
various kinds of work after attaining Jnana must not be considered
as Jnanis, but the gods also, and Iswara himself, since he continues
looking after the world.  The fact that any amount of action can be
performed, and performed quite well, by the Jnani without his identifying himself with it in any way or ever imagining that he is a doer.  Some Power acts through his body to get the work done.

Saiva Siddhantam calls it Suddha Manas or Suddha Maya, the power
that acts from within a Jnani.

The same truth is described by Muruganar in his verses, 924,
1139 and 1149 of GVK. 

Dear prasanth,

You say you agree with udai garu 100%.  How is it agreeable
to you? Can you kindly explain?



Arunachala Siva.           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramana_maharshi on November 02, 2010, 04:58:37 PM

I am thoughtless : As Consciousness I am ever thoughtless. The moment i identify with mind, there is a thought for me.

Since I am not mind, even when mind has thoughts, i do not.

Again, become thoughtless need not mean one has to remove thoughts, one has to be the Source of thoughts and hence not own up thoughts. just as my thoughts do not belong to you, your own thoughts are not owned by you, you being Consciousness.

Dear Subramanian garu,

I agree with udai garu's views regarding thoughtless state.


Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on November 03, 2010, 12:15:06 AM
Regarding body - pain of the body is, the suffer is no more. Body functioning has nothing to do with jnana. Nor we should care and discuss it.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 03, 2010, 08:30:06 AM



Dear amiatall,

The whole discussion, as you might have known from the thread,
came up,  because of our understanding of the body-less state.
Most of Ramana devotees know about egoless state, because it
is there in His direct teachings.  He did not mention in detail about
the body-less state.  The body-less state is not "non-existence of
the body", but the state of "not identifying with the body".   This
comes about not immediately when one controls the ego.  It takes
much longer time than one's achievement of egoless state.
Many Jnanis who have conquered their ego, have wept, wailed and
cried when their body was suffering due to pain and incurable
ailments. This is where, the aspect of prarabdha comes, I believe.



Arunachala Siva. 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 03, 2010, 08:30:57 AM
  Dear Sri amiatall,

 Very nicely and aptly said,sir.Thank you so much. Pain is but no suffering on account of that pain.
 And certainly what use discussing a Jnani's state rather than the states of our own.
 When we discuss at all, it is destined to be endless and remain non-conclusive in the end.
 As far as I understand, Sri Bhagwan never encouraged discussion on a jnani's state.
 Instead He always entreated the questioner to rather enquire who it is who wants to know about a jnani's
 state.Thank you. Anil    

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 03, 2010, 09:21:45 AM
   Dear Sri Subramanian Ji
 
 Thank you so much, sir , for explaining body-less state so nicely and with so much clarity. Yes sir, we understand  ego-less state better than the body-less state. But certainly we understand from the Life of Sri Bhagwan on the earth that the body-less state is not ‘non-existence of the body’ but  it is ‘non-identification with the body.’  But body-less state takes much longer time than one's achievement the egoless state  is an invaluable knowledge. Thank you.


                                                                               With Regards,

                                                                                    Anil
   

   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: silentgreen on November 03, 2010, 10:05:49 AM
As long as a person eats, drinks, excretes etc, I don't think we can say he is unaware of the body. A person who is unaware of the body in meditation (like Nirvikalpa Samadhi), most of these biological phenomenon ceases during that time. Even the breath seems to be suspended during that time.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: silentgreen on November 03, 2010, 02:58:03 PM
Some more thoughts on body and body-lessness.

1. Four hands:
We do not have four hands, so it never comes to our mind to buy bangles or wrist watches for the other two hands. Therefore if the body is not there, nothing related to the body should happen like hunger, thirst, excretion, carrying a stick etc.

2. Scientist losing himself:
When a scientist is deeply engrossed in his studies, he loses the body consciousness for the time being. But this is temporary. The needs of the body itself will give a natural notification to attend to the body.

3. Inner organs like liver:
We have lot of inner organs like liver, intestines etc, but we are hardly aware of them. But when they malfunction, notification will be sent to us only. Such failures may rarely happen or may not happen in the lifetime, but still these organs are part of our body.

4. Ghost-like body:
A child is afraid of a ghost imagining that it has a ghost-body which can pass through the walls, fly from one place to another etc. The ghost shows up a body to others which does not have any flesh and a sword will pass through it. Such things can be made by siddhis also. A ghost body even though half-existing is owned by the ghost.

5. Self-Consumption:
Self-enquiry as described by Bhagavan is to find out "From where the I rises?"
Before enquiry, the "I" was the pivot and the source from where it rises, the periphery.
When a person is established in Jnana, the source becomes the pivot and the "I" becomes the periphery. In other words, the "I" gets consumed by the source. The characteristics of the Self like Chidakasa feeling, deep bliss etc comes in the forefront. The gross body needs are attended with peripheral awareness unless in Nirvikalpa samadhi.

Sri Ramakrishna once sang a song which starts with:
Mother, either you eat me or I will eat you.

After the song, he asked one of his devotees:
Now, do you understand what my state is?
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 03, 2010, 04:43:43 PM
  Dear Sri Udai Shankar,

 In the context of the discussion on ‘Sudh Manas’, I wish to quote here three passages from  ‘Talks’ and ‘Day by Day’.

D        : Is not intellect a help for realization ?
Sri Bh : Yes, up to a certain stage. Even so, realize that the Self transcends the intellect- the later must itself vanish to reach the Self.

                                                                                      Talks, No-13

Sri Bh:  Of course we are  employing the mind. It is well known and admitted that only with the help of the mind the mind has to be killed. But instead of setting about saying there is a mind, and I want to kill it, you begin to seek the source of the mind, and you find the mind does not exist at all. The mind turned outwards, results in thoughts and objects. Turned inward, it becomes itself the Self. Such a mind is sometimes called ‘Arupa Manas’ or ‘Sudha Manas’. 

                                                                                           Page 37, Day by Day

 Sri Bh:  Atman is realized with ‘Mruta  Manas’ or the ‘Dead Mind’, that is, the mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward. Then the mind  sees its own source and becomes That. It is not as the subject  perceiving an  object. When the room is dark a lamp is necessary to illumine and eyes to cognize objects. But when the sun is risen there is no need of a lamp, and the objects are seen.

                                                                                             Talks,  No- 99

 From the above three statements of Sri Bhagwan , one is left with no doubt that ‘Arupa Manas’, ‘Sudha Manas’, ‘Mruta Manas’ and ‘Pure Mind  are one and the same mind.
As sri Bhagwan has explained above, such mind is devoid of thoughts. Further He said that the mind devoid of thoughts is of the nature of the Self. It is the Self Itself.

 Now you have raised the question how a realized sage functions in the world ?

 My answer is as following :
1.   Pure mind functions from the Heart-centre.
2.   A sage functions from an undivided and integral mind which is pure since is unpolluted by thoughts which is incomprehensible to us.
3.   A sage functions with a silent mind which is its basic state.Thoughts
        rise and subside in a such silent mind when required only.All actions are
   performed  in this vast silence of the mind.   
5.     Thoughts arise depending on the need and there is no carry-forward.
Having said thus, I certainly feel, dear Sri Udai ji, that it is impossible to gauge the State
and Mind of a realized sage from the state of a concept-based relative existence.You must be aware Sri Bhagwan Himself never encouraged such discussion and instead entreated
the enquirer  to enquire within first who wants to know all these things . Besides such discussions are bound to remain non-conclusive till the end. After all how such facts can be verified ? Who will be the Judge ? Sri Bhagwan has said that only jnani can understand the states of an another jnani. Thank you.

                                                                                         With Regards
                                                                                               Anil
 
5.              


Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 03, 2010, 04:48:04 PM
  Dear Sri Udai Shankar,

 In the context of the discussion on ‘Sudh Manas’, I wish to quote here three passages from  ‘Talks’ and ‘Day by Day’.

D        : Is not intellect a help for realization ?
Sri Bh : Yes, up to a certain stage. Even so, realize that the Self transcends the intellect- the later must itself vanish to reach the Self.

                                                                                      Talks, No-13

Sri Bh:  Of course we are  employing the mind. It is well known and admitted that only with the help of the mind the mind has to be killed. But instead of setting about saying there is a mind, and I want to kill it, you begin to seek the source of the mind, and you find the mind does not exist at all. The mind turned outwards, results in thoughts and objects. Turned inward, it becomes itself the Self. Such a mind is sometimes called ‘Arupa Manas’ or ‘Sudha Manas’. 

                                                                                           Page 37, Day by Day

 Sri Bh:  Atman is realized with ‘Mruta  Manas’ or the ‘Dead Mind’, that is, the mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward. Then the mind  sees its own source and becomes That. It is not as the subject  perceiving an  object. When the room is dark a lamp is necessary to illumine and eyes to cognize objects. But when the sun is risen there is no need of a lamp, and the objects are seen.

                                                                                             Talks,  No- 99

 From the above three statements of Sri Bhagwan , one is left with no doubt that ‘Arupa Manas’, ‘Sudha Manas’, ‘Mruta Manas’ and ‘Pure Mind  are one and the same mind.
As sri Bhagwan has explained above, such mind is devoid of thoughts. Further He said that the mind devoid of thoughts is of the nature of the Self. It is the Self Itself.

 Now you have raised the question how a realized sage functions in the world ?

 My answer is as following :
1.   Pure mind functions from the Heart-centre.
2.   A sage functions from an undivided and integral mind which is pure since is unpolluted by thoughts which is incomprehensible to us.
3.   A sage functions with a silent mind which is its basic state.Thoughts
        rise and subside in a such silent mind when required only.All actions are
4.   performed  in this vast silence of the mind.   
5.     Thoughts arise depending on the need and there is no carry forward of such thoughts and actions.
Having said thus, I certainly feel, dear Sri Udai ji, that it is impossible to gauge the State
and Mind of a realized sage from the state of a concept-based relative existence.You must be aware Sri Bhagwan Himself never encouraged such discussion and instead entreated
the enquirer  to enquire within first who wants to know all these things . Besides such discussions are bound to remain non-conclusive till the end. After all how such facts can be verified ? Who will be the Judge ? Sri Bhagwan has said that only jnani can understand the states of an another jnani. Thank you.

                                                                                         With Regards
                                                                                               Anil
                


Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 03, 2010, 04:56:27 PM
 I am sorry, by mistake of uploading, error of duplication of the reply has occurred.Therefore I request to kindly ignore it and read reply 116. thank you. anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 04, 2010, 02:27:50 PM
  Dear Devotees,

  It has been said by the great devotees of Sri Bhagwan
 that the  Bliss experienced during the practice of the Self-enquiry i.e.
 in sadhana stage, if it is understood and  practiced
 as Sri Bhagwan taught, is of the same nature as the 'Bliss'
 of the 'Natural State' or 'Self-abidance'.

                                                                ThankYou,
                                                                   Anil
 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 05, 2010, 01:51:31 PM
  Dear Devotees,

  Sri Bhagwan has said that Guru's Grace is unthinkable and that Guru, Grace and Self are one and the same.
 We, the victims of illusion, can we not understand the import of the following statement by Sri Bhagwan.
 Can we not have at least a peep ?

   " The gods and sages experience the Infinite continuously and eternally, without their vision obscured at any
  moment. Their minds are surmised by the spectators to function ; but in fact they do not. Such surmise is due
  to  the sense of individuality in those who draw inferences. There is no mental function in the absence of the
  individuality  Individuality and mind functions are coexistent. The one can not remain without the other.

  The light of the Self can be experienced only in the intellectual sheath. Therefore, vijnana of whatever kind
  ( of object or the Self ) depends on the Self being Pure Knowledge. "

                                                                                  Talks, No 204, P-181

  I feel that the meaning and the implication are obvious and , therefore, needs no elaboration.

                                                                                          Thank You,
                                                                                              Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 05, 2010, 02:14:30 PM
  Dear Devotees,

 Did we come to Sri Bhagwan Ramana on our own, of our own accord ? What brought us to Him, taught the
 technique of the Self-enquiry and the meaning of the Surrender and enabled us to tread the Path ?

 1. Surrender:
 D:-      How to gain Divine Grace ?
 Sri Bh:  By Surrender.
 D:        Grace is necessary.
 Sri Bh:  Yes, Grace is both the begining and the end. Introversion is due to Grace: Perseverance is Grace and
            the Realization is Grace. That is the reason for the statement : mamekam saranam vraja
            ( only surrender to me ). If one has entirely surrendered oneself , is there any part left to
            ask for Grace ? He is swallowed by the Grace.
                                                              Talks, No 319
 2. Vichara:
   Sri Bh :- There is no real Vichara ( Self-enquiry ) without Grace, nor is Grace active for one without Vichara.

       Dear Devotees, what is our Goal ?
                                                                       Thank You
                                                                           Anil
   
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 06, 2010, 12:57:16 PM
   Dear Devotees,

  It is Sri Bhagwan's Grace that attracted us to Self-enquiry. It is His Grace that sustains us with zeal and
 perseverance on the Path. It is His Grace that makes for the success of the efforts to become Self-Realized.
 Hence, Grace is truly the begining,middle and the end. Is it not ?

  " Grace is our Goal. "

  How awareness of the Grace would dawn on us ?
 Sri Bhagwan says by either total surrender or by the steadfast practice of the Self-enquiry with perseverance.
 But Sri Bhagwan says that no real 'Vichara' ( Self-enquiry ) is possible without Grace and Grace is not active
 for one without Vichara. This, at face, appears to be a vicious circle. But certainly that is not so.
 This statement of Sri Bhagwan implies that Grace and practice of the Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan
 act and react on each other.

  But having said the above, I feel that  we should never forget for a moment  Sri Bhagwan who is the life-line
 and the only Guide on the Path. Absolute Faith in Him  and His Teaching is the Key. Therefore, to become aware
 of His Grace, one should make effort, in my view, as following :-

 1.  For ever one should  keep invoking His Presence. Remember that which is , is, ' I am ' or ' Sri bhagwan is .'
    you, he, she, they etc. ( false subject ) and this, that ,body, world  etc. ( idam , False objects ) are   
    playing within and on  the screen of His Being. The above, I feel, helps invoking His Presence.
2.  Having absolute faith in Him and His Teaching is the Key to the awareness of His Grace. If time has
    come, His exalted Life on the earth and His sublime Teaching are enough to sprout and inculcate faith in the
    hearts of the devotees.
3. Practice:  Sri Bhagwan said that individual efforts are essential. Practice and Grace become
   co-existent. Practice helps awareness of Grace and Grace gives inward pull to the mind.
   They act and react on each other.Therefore, steadfast practice with perseverance is bound to
    succeed and make one Self-aware.

  Dear devotees, we should have total faith in Guru's Judgement and Timing. There is more than
  cent per cent certainty that 'Guru Prasadam' will be given at the most appropriate of times.

                                                                                             Thank You,
                                                                                                 Anil               
     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 06, 2010, 04:34:09 PM
                " Ordain that my burden should no more be mine.
                  But yours, for what is the burden for you, the all sustainer ?
                  I have had enough of carrying this world
                  Upon my head, parted from you. "
                                                               Sri Bhagwan

   Dear Devotees,

 How much importance Grace has on the spiritual path can be understood from the fact that Sri Bhagwan
 has Himself invoked ' Grace 'in most of the verses of the AMM. Besides, He invokes Lord Sri Arunachala
 by 'Ocean of Nectar' and ' Full of Grace 'in the first verse of the Aruachal Panchratna.

  Sri Bhagwan always said that Guru, Grace, and the Self are the one and the same. Grace is the very nature of
 the Self. Whenever a devotee prayed to Sri Bhagwan for the Grace , why did He always point out that the
 Grace is always there and that practice or the effort is imperative ?  Because, in my view, only 'Self is' and
 Its nature is Grace Itself. And, therefore, it can be understood easily, either intuitively or otherwise,
 that when we seek Self and practice unwaveringly and steadfastly for Self-abidance, Grace being the
 nature of the Self, is certain to be active naturally and spontaneously. Sri Bhagwan meant to convey
 that practice makes for the awareness of the Grace. Thus, message of the Guru is obvious.

  But Sri Bhagwan's Grace precedes individual efforts. As  has been said earlier that it was Sri Bhagwan's Grace
 that attracted us to the Straight Path of the Self-enquiry.

                                                                            Thank You,.
                                                                               Anil     
   
                                                 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 07, 2010, 12:09:07 PM
    Dear Devotees,

 We simply can not comprehend and fathom the Pure Mind or the Satvic Mind of a Self-Realized Jnani. However,
 If He Himself chooses to reveal, out of compassion, we can have merely peeps or glimpses like the frogs in
 the well when they are told of the sea by a wise frog.

   Sri Bhagwan :-

 Vritti belongs to the rajasic mind. The satvic is free from it. Tha satvic is the witness of the rajasic. It is no doubt
 true consciousness. Still it is called satvic mind because the knowledge of being witness is the function of abhasa
 ( reflected consciousness )  only. Mind is the abhasa. Such knowledge implies mind. But the mind is by itself
 inoperative. Therefore it is called satvic mind.

  Such is the jivanmukta's state. It is also said that his mind is dead. Is it not a paradox that a jivanmukta has a
 mind and that it is dead ? This has to be coceded in argument with ignorant folk.

  Satvic mind is surmised of the jivanmukta and of Iswara. " Otherwise," they argue, " how does the Jivanmukta
 live and act ?" The satvic mind has to be admitted  as a concession to argument.

  The satvic mind in fact is the Absolute Consciousness. The object to be witnessed and the witness
  finally merge together and Absolute Consciousness alone reigns supreme. It is not a state of blank or
  ignorance. It is swarupa ( Real Self ). Some say that mind arises from consciousness followed by abhasa
 (reflection ); Others say that the abhasa  (reflection ) arises first followed by the mind.In fact both are
 simultaneous.
                         

                                                                              Thank You
                                                                                 Anil   
     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 07, 2010, 12:50:04 PM
           " That 'which is' does not say, " I am ".
             That 'which is not' says," I am Anil ".

  D     :    To say that the pure mind reflects the Truth seems to contradict the statements that the Self is   
             beyond  the mind, that the mind can not know Brahman that is beyond thought and speech.
  Sri Bh:    That is why they say that mind is two-fold; there is the higher pure mind as well as the lower impure
             mind. The impure mind can not know it but the pure knows. It does not mean that the pure mind
              measures Self, the Brahman. It means that the Self makes itself felt in the pure mind so that even when
              you are in the midst of thoughts you feel the presence, you realize the truth that you are one with the
              deeper Self and that the thought-waves are there only on the surface.
 D        : That means the mano-nasa, the destruction of the mind or the ego you speak of is then not an absolute
             destruction.
 Sri Bh   : Yes. The mind gets clear of impurities and becomes pure enough to reflect the truth, the real Self. This
              is impossible when the ego is active and assertive.

                                                          Source: Know Yourself
                                                             A. R. Nararajan     

  Dear devotees, the Pure Mind or the Higher Mind is verily the Self Itself. When the mind is merged in the Self,
  it rises as a wave of awareness from the  Heart-Centre which enables a Jnani to think as well as act even
  though He is for ever One with the Supreme.

                                                                Thank You
                                                                  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 07, 2010, 04:13:55 PM
    The Revelation of Sri Bhagwan quoted in Reply No 123 has been taken from
 'Talks', No 68. Page-77-78.

   Dear devotees, what I have understood from Sri Bhagwan's Revelation quoted in Reply No 123 and 124
 is as following :

  After all, Thinking and Activity are enabled by the Power of the Self. When the mind is merged
  in the Source or the Self, Pure Mind or the Satvic Mind or the Sudha Mind rises as a wave of
  awareness from the Heart-Centre which facilitates 'Intutive' thinking and functioning by
  a Self-realized Jnani.

                                                                Thank You
                                                                    Anil

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on November 08, 2010, 01:47:49 AM
"lower mind" gets integrated with "higher mind" and you have pure mind reflecting Truth, but it is not final station yet. or so say scriptures.
We must go deeper. I mean, really, leaving conceptual world, diving in experientially, only to discard it in the end too.

To my mind egoless and bodyless are not different. Neither one can be bodyless with ego intact, nor otherwise. It may seem that some jnanis does not have bodyless state, but what if one is wrong? What if one is omitting the word "seem". Again, it is a ridiculous mistake to mix body and jnani. Body acts and feels the way it is programmed, body may scream or may kick in the butt if situation is such, but jnani never identifies with its activities. This is not about it being wrong or not wrong. This is about crushing our own deep rooted believes of how things should be according to our view. I mean ALL believes must go, totally.

this is my humble opinion.

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 08, 2010, 08:29:04 PM



Yes.  The lower mind [impure mind] should merge with higher mind
or Maha Manas as Buddhists call it and the former mind should
disappear totally.  This once achieved, the world will not appear
again.  Bhagavan Ramana says in Who am I? :  If thoughts disappear, the mind disappears and the Jagam [world] will also disappear.   The ego, another aspect of mind, like the stick used
for burning funeral pyre, will also be thrown into the pyre for its
destruction.  The body will continue, and should go through the motions of nature, till prarabdha gets exhausted.  The prarabdha will be there for a Jnani and Jnani will not feel its pain and pleasure.
The stick that is used is the inquiry as to who am I?

Bhagavan Ramana says the body is a foregone conclusion.  It means
your genes to body structure are already pre-decided as per prarabha.
So this will go when the prarabdha gets exhausted.



Arunachala Siva.

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 09, 2010, 01:10:40 PM
  Dear Sri Subamanian Ji and Sri Amiatall,

 Thank you so much for your very nice posts.
 My understanding is exactly the same.

                                                       Thank You.
                                                          Anil












 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 09, 2010, 01:23:01 PM



Dear Anil,

Bhagavan Ramana once said that we are carrying "dead bodies".
Why is the body death?  Science has now proved that everyday
cells are dying and new cells are getting formed. In seven years
it is said that one's body cells are totally new.  So birth and death
are already taking place inside the body.

Once two poor brahmins [they were pall bearers] were returning from
the cremation ground.  They were acutely hungry.  They
wanted to take food.  But they were "impure" because they had
returned from cremation ground and they had to take bath.  That year, Tiruvannamalai was quite hot and all tanks were dry. So
no bath was possible.  They came to the Asramam and told Bhagavan that they were pall bearers and had returned from the cremation.  However, they were hungry.  Bhagavan Ramana said:
"Go and eat first in the dining hall.  You say you have carried dead
bodies.  But we are all carrying dead bodies.  It does not matter.
Go and eat!"   

Bhagavan Ramana has also said:  "Forgetting the Self is death.
Constantly remembering the Self is immortality."

It is explained in the form of a calculus work out in Ramana Kendra,
Hyderabad, which I saw when I went there on Deepavali Day.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 09, 2010, 01:37:43 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Ji and Sri Amiatall

  I wish to quote here two very revealing observations of Sri Bhagwan which, in my opinion,certainly reinforces
  our understanding of the mind.

  Sri Bh :-

  There is no entity by the name mind. Because of the emergence of thoughts we surmise something from which
 they start. That we term mind. When we probe to see what it is, there is nothing like it. After it has vanished,
  peace will be found to be eternal.

  Devotee : What is budhi ?
  Sri Bh     : The thinking and discriminating faculty. These are mere names. Be it the ego, the mind, or the
                  intellect, it is all the same. Whose mind ? Whose intellect ? The ego's . Is the ego real ? No.
                 We confound the ego and call it intellect or mind.
  Devotee  : Emerson says, " Soul answers soul by itself- not by description or words."
  Sri BH      :Quite so. However much you learn, there will be no bounds to knowledge. You ignore the doubters
                 but try to solve the doubts. On the other hand hold on to the doubter and the doubts
                will disappear.

                                                                                          Talks, No 238, p- 197,198

                                                                                                   Thank You
                                                                                                      Anil    
.
  
  
  
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 09, 2010, 01:49:13 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Ji

  Thank you so much, Sir. I had not been aware of this incidence that
  Sri Bhagwan had asked somebody coming from the crematorium ground to go directly
  to the dining hall without proper bath.Our Bhagwan was  God Himself who
  incarnated in human guise to bestow His own State to His loving devotees. 

                                                              With Regards
                                                                  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 09, 2010, 02:00:08 PM



Dear Anil,

Bhagavan Ramana says the same idea, slightly in a different form,
in Verse 17 of Sad Darsanam.

To those who do not know the Self and to those who do, the body
is the "I".  But to those who do not know the Self, the "I" is
bonded by the body; while to those who within the body know
the Self, the "I" shines boundless.  Such is the difference between
them.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 09, 2010, 02:40:02 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Ji and Sri amiatall

  With due regard, I wish to submit that I firmly believe that the clarity which Sri Bhagwan has brought about in
 the  understanding of the 'mind', in its totality, is unprecedented, remains unmatched, and which can not be
 equaled by any one.I wish again to quote divine words of Sri Bhagwan in this regard from the ' Spiritual
 Instruction'  which, in my view, is invaluable in understanding the mind.

  Devotee : What is 'Pure Mind' and what is 'Impure Mind' ?

  Sri Bh     : When the indefinable power of Brahman separates itself from Brahman, and in union with
                 the reflection of consciousness (chidabhasa), assumes various names and forms, it is called
                 the impure mind.When it becomes free from the reflection of consciousness (abhasa),
                  through discrimination, it is called the Pure Mind. Its state of union with the Brahman,
                  is its apprehension of Brahman. The energy which is accompanied by the reflection
                  of consciousness is called the impure mind and its state of separation from Brahman
                  is its non-apprehension of Brahman.

         Dear Sir, I have read some where that Sri Bhagwan once said that Self-realization is not the realization
        of the Self. Self is always realized. It is the realization of the ignorance. Or perhaps , He  
        said  that in Self-realization we do not discover the Self. Self ever is. What we discover in Self-realization
        is our ignorance.  

   One more question, Sir.

    " In the inner most recess of the hearts of all,from Vishnu downward,there abides
      the Parmatman, or the Supreme Consciousness, who is same as
      Arunachala or Ramana. When mind melts with the love of Him
      and reaches there where resides the beloved,He reveals Himself as
      'Pure Knowledge'.

  I learnt that this verse was composed by Sri Bhagwan in response to a devotee's
  question. What was the question and the background which led
  to the composition of this one of the most sublime verses I have ever read ?

                                                                      Thank You
                                                                         Anil      
                                

        
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 09, 2010, 05:29:38 PM




Dear Anil,

Yes.  Bhagavan Ramana said that the Self is ever realized.  What
we should realize is the impermanence of all that is non-Self.
Atma Vicharam is not inquiry of Atma.  Atma is ever there.  What
we should inquire is the anatma i.e. which is not the Self and remove
them, from cluttering our mind.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 10, 2010, 08:09:01 AM



Dear srkudai,

Yes.  Very true.  One should keep away from worries and anxieties,
because they are not the real "I".  They are my mind's play, smothering my life.  Bhagavan Ramana lived in this state.  For such Brahma Jnanis, all things that are rightfully required come about on their own.

As Lagu Yoga Vasishta says:  He who has nullified the mental
transformations in the waking state as in deep sleep, and whose
company is sought after by the learned for his erudition, just as
the gods seek after the full moon with all his marks, is known to
be liberated in this world.  All beings - whether fierce or gentle,
repose their trust and find peace in him who is perfectly tranquil,
just as they do so in their own mother.

   

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 10, 2010, 12:52:54 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Ji and Sri Udai Shankar Ji,

  Thank you so much for explaining non-existence of ignorance from a very
 insightful and practically fruitful angle.
 Udai ji's obsevation that ' You are really untouched by
 worry is to be seen within' gives a new and important perspective into
 the enquiry. Thank you so much.

                                                                 With Regards,
                                                                      Anil

                                                       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 10, 2010, 01:41:34 PM
  Existence is awareness which is the negation of ignorance. Sri Bhagwan told Sri S.S. Cohen
  ( Guru Ramana, P-54,55 ) that Concentration, Meditation and all other spiritual practices
 are not performed with the object of realizing the Self, because the Self is ever present,
 but of realizing the non-existence of ignorance.

  I am the Existence, Consciousness, and Bliss. Yet, I am not happy. Because I imagine myself other than
 what I am in reality. I imagine myself I am this body, I am this or that.
 I am Anil, father of Amit and Rachana, son of so and so on endlessly.
 I do not see all these in deep sleep but I exist as 'I am'.

  Sri Bhagwan asks us to hold on to that existence, that awareness-'I am' alone.
 Sri Bhagwan says that stripped of qualities and superimposition of names and forms
 I am simply, " I-Am-That-I Am ". But Stillness alone can usher us in the experience
 of the Reality that is 'Existence' I am. Sri Bhagwan says that stillness is cessation of
 thinking,which is the universe of names and forms, time and space, all cocepts and percepts whatever.

  Sri Bhagwan Says, 'I am' is God. (Talks, no-354)
  Realize " I am " and do not think I am.

 " Know I am God "- it is said and not " Think I am God ".

                                                                            Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 10, 2010, 01:57:22 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  The Self is beyond thoughts and words.  One cannot think
about Brahman, the unthinkable, and attain It.  All prayers
and worships are only thoughts.  It can only help a person to have
chittasuddhi and this should go hand in hand with self inquiry.

The philosopher Descartes famously concluded in his "I think, therefore I am" statement that thought was a proof of Being.  Thought is only the proof of the individual, mind and ego.  Bhagavan
Ramana ridiculed this assertion in the following statement
that was recorded by Sri Lakshmana Sarma in his Sri Ramana
Paravidyopanishad, verse 166:

The existence of their own Self is inferred by some from mental
functioning, by reasoning 'I think therefore I am'.  These men are
like those dull witted ones who ignore the elephant when it goes
past and become convinced afterwards by looking at the footprints.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 10, 2010, 02:29:14 PM
   Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

   Thank you so much, Sir, for a very, very beautiful post.
 Particularly Sri Laksman Sharma's recording of this Statement of Sri Bhagwan
 is an act of His ever flowing Grace.

                                                      With Regards,
                                                          Anil
           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 10, 2010, 02:59:00 PM
   Self-enquiry has twin divine weapons in its armoury.
 Who Am I ?
 Whence Am I ?

  Sri Bhagwan has said that 'Who am I ?' is Vichara ( Koham?), and 'Whence am I ?' is Dhyana (Kutoham?).
 Dear devotees, ther is no doubt that the hidden and secret desires, such as desires for name and fame
 wealth, honour, company of the opposite sex etc., are hindrances and undoing for the seekers.
 
 Sri Bhagwan said that Self-realization is realization of the non-existence of the ignorance.
 How this ignorance created existence and its attachments will become palpable
 under the searchlight of the Self-enquiry?

  A simple suggestion :

 When one enquires profoundly, as if this is a life and death question, which in reality it is,
 one tries to hold on to his own substratum i.e. the Self which is Absolute, Full, and Immovable
 Unchanging Reality, one begins to be gradually aware, at last , of the ephemeral and fleeting nature of the
 phenomena on the Immovable-Unchanging Screen of his own being. Immovability of the screen
 helps recognize the ever changing world-realities including his own little self.

 Absolute faith in Sri Bhagwan and the diligent practice of the Self-enquiry as taught by Him
 is bound to intensify 'I am' ness, opening the door to one's own wonderful 'Natural State'.

                                                                                 Thank You
                                                                                    Anil   
 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 11, 2010, 12:03:09 PM
                   When the mind melts with love of Him,
                   Subtle Eye of Consciousness opens,
                   And He reveals Himself as Pure Knowledge.

                                                    Sri Bhagwan

  Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is holistic and, therefore, it is greater than the sum of its components.
 As an earnest devotee treads the Path, Sri Bhagwan and His Grace are ever watching, bringing about necessary
 correction,if required, besides highlighting the Path itself. There is no doubt about that. After all why did
 the great devotee and the Poet of poets, Sri Muruganar sang that Self-enquiry reveals its own clarity ?
 Indeed, those who say that He is no more in the body, are sceptics, if I may say so.

  Dear devotee, what is jnana ? Sri Bhagwan revealed that subjective knowledge or the knowledge knowing itself
 is jnana. Knowing any thing or knowledge of any thing is predicated upon the existence of consciousness or
 awareness. Every experience is possible only because of the 'Presence'. As Sri Bhagwan illustrated so revealingly
 in His plenary 'Death Experience', ' like the shruti note in a musical performance'.

   Let us suppose that I am searching  a pen in the pitch darkness. I can not find it when it is dark, although
 the subject and the object both are present in it. Light must be there to unite me to the pen. Similarly,
 Sri Bhagwan clarified that the link between the subject and the object in every experience is Pure Knowledge.
 Knowledge is the Light which connects the seer to the seen.

 Consciousness is the substratum and the witness, It is Itself the subjects and the objects as well as the
 Light by which they are perceived, known or experienced. In Truth, there is nothing but awareness.

                                                                          Thank You
                                                                              Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 11, 2010, 12:47:55 PM
  Dear Devotees,

  Ether is a physical concept and physical ether is insentient. But our impure mind is such that it can understand
 concepts only, although it partakes consciousness. Since ether in physics is all-pervading, at least within the
 periphery of the expanding universe or may be up to its four-dimensional end as Sri Einstein postulated. It does not  matter for now. However, it has been a very apt and a helpful entity to have intellectual grasp of the
 all-pervading Reality.

  Mind is a mixture of Intelligence and thoughts or of Chit and sankalpas. Therefore, it is responsible for forming
 mirror, light, darkness and reflections. Chit-ether or Chidakasa is Pure Knowledge or Pure Intelligence and It is the
 source of the mind. Sri Bhagwan says that mind is Pure Light or Pure Consciousness at the moment of rising.
 Only afterwards, the central I-thought or the thought ' I am Anil ' rises which at once becomes the basis
 for the rise of the jivas and the world. Sri Bhagwan says that the first Light rising as the wave of Consciousness
 from the Self is the Pure Mind or the Mind-ether or our God-Head or  Ishwara. And like the physical ether which
 contains objects, Mind-ether  contains thoughts which are the jivas and the world. Sri Bhagwan says that the
 physical ether which contains all the gross objects and the whole universe itself, is the content of the Mind-ether
 which is itself the contents of the  Chit-Ether or the Pure Knowledge.
  Chit-Ether is Itself Self or the Pure  Awareness which does not contain any thing in it. Why ?
 Because Sri Bhagwan says that knowing objects is relative knowledge but knowledge, in its purity, is
 One transcendental all-pervading Light.

                                                                 Thank You,
                                                                     Anil 
 


 

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramanaduli on November 11, 2010, 01:47:04 PM
Dear Udai ji,

The body is growing from childhood to old age and one day it dies. This changeable body is seen by changeless self.


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 11, 2010, 04:54:46 PM



The mind-body consciousness does not leave us easily.  That is why
we even try to see God with body.  Today is Skanda Sashti - we think of Muruga with six faces and twelve hands.  Ganesa is with elephant face.  Siva with five faces.  This body will appear and disappear.  This is only meditation in form.  This should give way to formless  meditation.  The sight or vision implies the seer.  The seer cannot deny the existence of the Self.  There is no moment when the Self as Consciousness does not exist.  It is eternal, no appearing and disappearing.  Therefore inquire Who am I?. Sink deep within and abide as the Self.  That is Siva, as BE-ing.   



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramanaduli on November 11, 2010, 07:42:46 PM
Everything is brahman... This statement is only for those who realized and lives in the same sahaja samadhi. Not for all.

Anyway this point is very interesting to explain and to understand...

In the "snake and rope" example  both are also brahman. We never afraid of rope whereas everybody afraid of live snake.
In the same way  an apple is also brahman is eaten by another brahman. Is not it. I think all the doubts will be cleared when
we become brahmahood.


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 12, 2010, 07:23:57 AM



There  is an ocean of difference between the state of a Jivan mukta
and ours who are not yet realized. 

The B.U. says:  When all the desires that dwell in his heart are gone, then he, having been a mortal, verily becomes immortal.  And realizes  Brahman in this very body.  Such a Jivan Mukta is called
in various names, gunatita, sthitaprajna at al.

Vasishta tells Rama:  He is said to be liberated-while-living to whom
this world of senses ceases to exist although he is transacting with it in the usual way and TO WHOM ONLY THE ALL PERVADING CONSCIOUSNESS EXISTS.

I trust, in such a state, he will see, including the body of himself
and bodies of all living beings, as Consciousness.  He, who although transacting with all sorts of sense objects, remains cool as if they
are all concerned with someone else, and he who is self-integrated
into a whole.

   

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: silentgreen on November 12, 2010, 07:45:13 AM
Quote
When the mind melts with love of Him,
Subtle Eye of Consciousness opens,
And He reveals Himself as Pure Knowledge.

Sri Bhagwan

Very Very nice. The mind melts with Love of Him.
The Subtle Eye of Consciousness opens.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 12, 2010, 08:41:15 AM



Yes. A Jivanmukta can do that.  It is called Jagrat Sushupti.

Bhagavan says in Talks 609:

The state of the Jnani...is neither sleep nor the waking state
but intermediate between the two.  There is the awareness
of the waking state and the stillness of the sleep.  It is called
Jagrat-sushupti.  Call it wakeful sleep or sleepless waking or wakeless sleep.  It is not the same as sleep or waking separately.  It is atijagrat or atisushupti.....

Laghu Yogavasishta says:

When the attention of Jivanmukta is drawn towards worldly activities, by the people near, they perform their duties set
by the tradition just like somnambulists and themselves remain
unaffected.

Mundaka Upanishad says: 

Obj: The accomplished one [i.e. Jivanmukta] does not see, and he performs the conventional duties -- these two are mutually contradicting statements.  It that not so?

Reply :  No. This can be solved according to the degrees of tranquillity.  Having this in view, the Sruti says:  'One who sports
with, delight in and works through the Self is the foremost among the knowers of Brahman.

Bhagavan Ramana says in Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam Verse 5:

He who, with Heart to you surrendered,
Beholds for ever You alone,
Sees all things as forms of You
And loves and serves them as none other
Than the Self.  O Aruna Hill,
Triumphs because he is immersed
in You whose being is pure bliss.

[tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan]


Narayana Upanishad:

Not only the activities prescribed by the scriptures, but also all
the worldly activities of the Yogi are of the nature of religious austerities only.           



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 12, 2010, 10:01:39 AM



A Jivan mukta sees the world through eye of Jnana.  He transacts
with the world as the Self.

GVK Verse 54 says:

The Jnani's vision matures into being consciousness bliss, the
eye of Truth, because the mischievous movements of the ego-
mind have ceased completely.  Since the nature of the seen is not
different from the nature of the eye that sees, to the true Jnani
the world too is definitely being consciousness bliss.

Vasishta further narrates the characteristics of a Jivan Mukta:

He whose face neither beams in happiness nor becomes drowned
in sorrow, and he whose body is maintained from whatever comes of its own accord, is said to be a Jivan Mukta.

*

He who is wide awake although in deep sleep, who has no
distinguished waking state, and whose knowledge is free from
desires, is called a Jivan Mukta.

*

He who is absolutely pure at heart, like the clear akasa, although responsive to the spurs of love, hate, fear and the like, is called
a Jivan Mukta.

*

He whose intellect is not tainted and whose inner self is not
affected by the feeling of "I am the doer" caused by egoism
while being engaged or not in the rites and other activities, is
called a Jivan Mukta.

*

He neither perturbs the world, nor gets perturbed by the world,
and he who is free from joy, anger, gusto and fear as well, is said to be a Jivan Mukta.

*

He who is free from all worldly thoughts, although skilled in arts, is without any and who is, as it were, without a mind although having one, is called a Jivan Mukta.

*

He who although, transacting with all sorts of sense objects, remains cool as if they are all concerned with someone else,
and he is who self-integrated into a whole, is said to be a Jivan Mukta.

*

When the body expires in time - just as the wind becomes motionless - he gives up his body state, and thus a Jivan
Mukta enters the state of Nirvanam.



Arunachala Siva.           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: silentgreen on November 12, 2010, 10:12:48 AM
Quote
There  is an ocean of difference between the state of a Jivan mukta
and ours who are not yet realized.

I agree with this statement.
A Jivan Mukta is like a rocket which has exceeded escape velocity and went out of the earth's gravitation field. They are in space and exhaust their karma on earth from there. We operate on earth within the earth's gravitation field. An incarnation is higher. From the space they come down to earth for well-being of humanity at large.

This is not merely a statement from the Jnana literature. Tantric scriptures also identify three granthis: the Brahma Granthi, the Vishnu Granthi and the Rudra Granthi. These granthis are like knots which holds one in bondage. A person (according to that system) becomes free only after those knots melt away.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 12, 2010, 12:21:49 PM



Dear silentgreen,

Diary of M dated 24th August 1882:

M:-  When one sees God, does one see Him with these eyes?

MASTER;-  God cannot be seen with these physical eyes.  In the
course of spiritual discipline, one gets a "love body", endowed with
"love eyes"  {Jnana KaN says Bhagavan Ramana}, "love ears", and
so on.  One sees God with those "love eyes."  One hears the voice
of God with those "love ears".  But this is not possible without
intense love of God [Bhagavan Ramana calls it as self surrender].
One sees God alone everywhere when one loves Him with great
intensity.  It is like a person with jaundice, who sees everything yellow.  Then one feels "I am verily He".  One who thinks of God day and night beholds Him everywhere.  It is like a man's seeing huge flames on all sides, after he has gazed fixedly at one huge flame for sometime.

While Bhagavan Ramana mentioned only about Chit-Jada granthi,
Sri Lalita Sahasranamam describes three granthis, Bramha Granthi,
Vishnu Granthi and Rudra Granthi.  These are three knots that one
encounters in Mooladharam, Manipurakam and Ajana while practising Kundalini Yoga.  After breaking these three knots one attains Sahasraram where Mother showers nectar.  [Sri Lalita Sloka 39]
Attaining Sahasraram, one merges with Siva-Sakti and and prana escapes through the crown to merge with the pure space.

Bhagavan Ramana though He did not disapprove Yoga marga, had
mentioned the strain involved in that.  He says in Jnana Marga, the mind simply merges in the Heart without return.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 12, 2010, 05:27:10 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Ji, Sri silentgreen, Sri Udai Ji and all devotees,

  Guru's Words are the nectarine Words of Grace. They are Brahm Vakyas. I quote here again from the
 Talks, No-396.
 Sri Bh:
 
 " What is life ? Life is existence which is your Self. That is life eternal. Otherwise can you imagine a time when
 you are not ?
 That life is now conditioned by the body and you wrongly identify your being with that of the body. You are life
 unconditioned. These bodies attach themselves to you as mental projections and you are now afflicted by
 'I-am-the -body' idea. If this body idea ceases you are your Self.
 Where and how were you before being born ? Were you in sleep ? How were you ? You exist then too without the
 body. Then the ego arises, and then the mind which projects the body. 'I-am-the-body' idea is the result.
 Because the body exists you say that it was born and that it will die. In fact you remain without the body in
 sleep; but now you remain with the body.The Self can remain without the body, but the body can not exist
 apart from the Self.
 'I-am-the-body' thought is ignorance; that the body is not apart from the Self is knowledge. That is the
 difference between knowledge and ignorance.
 The body is a mental projection, the mind is the ego; and the ego rises from the Self. So the body-thought
  is distracting and strays away from the Self. For whom is the body or the birth ? It is not for the Self,
  the Spirit. It is for the non-self which imagines itself separate.

                                                                                    Thank you,
                                                                                       Anil   
   
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 12, 2010, 05:48:52 PM
  Composed of flesh, bone, blood, mal, mutra etc. this ever changing block of a body is insentient like
 the log of wood.It is animated, as you are aware, by the Light and Power of the Self, which is the Only
 Unchanging, One, Transcendental Reality and which is not different  from Brahman and the Feeling of Existence,
' I-am ',  the Pure Awareness. Therefore, it would do tons of good to seekers, if , instead of being enamoured with
 this ever changing body and its comforts and which is destined to undergo the experiences under the force of
 the prarabdha whether we do something for it or not, we should make whole-hearted efforts to hold on to that
 which underlies the body, which is the substratum, and which is our real Self.
  Everything  appears to us through the mind and its notion. Therefore, everything that appears to us is a mere
  notion.
  Has not Sri Bhagwan said that the body itself is a disease ? He Himself amply demonstrated by His own
  example by remaining indifferent to the pain and torture caused by the dreadful sarcomatus in the twilight of His
  earthly life.

                                                                                                  Thank You,
                                                                                                     Anil     
   
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 12, 2010, 06:24:25 PM



Chandogya Upanishad says:

Not remembering the body into which He was born, just as an animal is attached to a cart, so is the vital air attached to the body."

The knower of Brahman remains without remembering his own that is near the other people.  Only the people around him see the body of the knower of the Truth.  He being mindless, does not remember as "This is my body".  As the horse driven along by the driver reaches the next destination, without the need to be directed repeatedly by the driver, so the vital air established in this body by the Supreme Lord, maintains the activities of the body irrespective of the efforts of the individual. 



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 13, 2010, 03:46:07 PM
   Dear Sri Udai Shankar,

  First, I must acknowledge that I love your as well as Sri Silentgreen's critical bent of mind. It helps strengthen
 the spirit of  enquiry.I also love Sri Subramanian ji's spontaneity.

   You have said  that when all is Brahman, body and the world is also Brahman. But Brahman is ever present,
 unchanging, and unmoving. But we see that the body and the world sometimes appear and sometime do not.
 Unlike Brahman they are transitory, ever changing,ever moving. Isn't it ?

  An analogy is often drawn between Brahman and the Ocean. Ocean is a vast body of water, ever present,
 ever still,unchanging,and unmoving... etc. But waves in it, although made of the same substance water,
 rise from the Ocean,are ever changing, ever moving, while they have their stay in the Ocean, but finally
 resolving into it. Waves are of and in the Ocean .They are not apart from the Ocean. They  verily are ocean.
 
  Likewise, we are aware, by the Grace of Sri Bhagwan, that the mind which is the indefinable and wonderous
 power of the Brahman, rise from Brahman, is never still for a moment,ever moving, ever changing much like
 the waves in the Ocean. We know that the body and the mind are merely mental projection and rise
 simultaneously with the rise of the mind. When the mind arise , all else arise. Mind, body and the world are
 made of the same substance as the Brahman. They all are verily the Brahman. However, they are never still for a
 moment,sometimes present, sometimes not,ever moving, ever changing. They all rise from the Brahman, have
 their stay in It and finally resolve into It. All are Brahman, as Sri Subramanian Ji so beautifully explained.

                                                                                 Thank You,
                                                                                     Anil           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 13, 2010, 04:04:11 PM
   Dear Devotees,

  What is Life ?
 Sri Bhagwan says that Life is Existence. And Existence is the Self or the Brahman or the feeling, ' I am '.
 As sri Bhagwan asked, if we try to imagine a time when we were not, we can not. Ours is a Life eternal.
 
  Life eternal has been conditioned by the mind-body complex from the time immemorial, birth after birth.
 And this has led us to identify our being, tenaciously but wrongly, with that of the mind-body complex.
 We are in truth Life unconditioned.

  One can become conscious of the ' Feeling of  Existence ' I am ' by stilling the mind even for a while, if one is
 sensitive enough. This is within the experience of all of us.

  Now, what is 'I am' ? Is 'I am' a thought ? Sri Bhagwan says that the egoless 'I am' is not a thought. It is the
 Realization. The meaning , significance and the true import of  'I'  is God.

                                       " THE EXPERIENCE OF 'I AM' IS TO BE STILL."

                                                                                 Thank You
                                                                                      Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 13, 2010, 05:37:06 PM



Self transcends mind and body.  Everything starting from the mind,
thought [the root being I thought] takes birth, is sustained and then
dissolved in the Self.  Bhagavan Ramana says this in Verse 2 of
Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam.

As on a screen a wondrous picture
On You, fair Hill, is all this world
Formed and sustained and then withdrawn
Ever as "I" in the heart You dance,
Hence are You called the Heart.

-Tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan

Now this Arunachala can be Atma as seen outside.
It is also within us as Atma.

All the worlds [including all beings in it]  are formed, sustained and dissolved in Arunachala.

Similarly right from the time wake up, all thoughts and worlds
are formed, sustained throughout the day, and then get dissolved
in the Self when we go into deep sleep.

Arunachala is Atma, without and within.

Seeing the Atma or Atma darshan is experiencing the Atma within,
where there are no thoughts. 

Bhagavan Ramana says this in Verse 2 of Sri Arunachala Ashtakam:


Inquiring within 'Who is the seer?' I saw the seer disappearing
and That alone stands for ever.  No thought arose to say "I saw".
How then could the thought arise to say "I did not see"?  Who has
the power to explain all this in words, when You as {Sri Dakshinamurty} conveyed this of yore in Silence only?  And in order to reveal by silence, Your state transcendent, now You stand here,
a Hill resplendent soaring to the sky.

-Tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan.

This verse describes Arunachala = Atma = Silence [achalam].



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 14, 2010, 03:36:18 PM
   Dear Sri Subramanian Ji

  Thank You so much Sir for a very, very nice post  that strengthens
  conviction about our Ends and Goal. Thank You so much.

                                                              With Regards,
                                                                  Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 14, 2010, 04:05:15 PM
  Dear Devotees,

  Thinking only of Him and His rich, auspicious and benignant Feet, deer devotees, we should,
 without loosing further time, start a journey whose end and goal is Bliss Supreme, as Sri Muruganar sang.

  That Sri Bhagwan is God Himself is self-obvious to all us. But His role as Sadguru in ths world is beyond
  the words and speech of an ordinary devotee like me. It is for the great devotees like Sri Muruganar,
 Sri Ganapati Muni, Sri Annamalai Swami, Sri Paul Brunton etc. to make aware the world of
 His full glory.

  I quote here a conversation that Sri Bhagwan had with a devotee to show how at once He shifted the
 attention of the enquirer on the enquirer himself, the subject, 'I'.

  D       : If you have seen God I would like you yo help me see God.
  Sri Bh : You say 'I wish to see God;First of all tell me who are you ?
  D       : My name is Devadatta Sharma.
  Sri Bh : That is your name. Who are you ?
   D      : I have already told that I am Sharma. I am a Brahmin.
  Sri Bh : That is the indication of your caste. Who are you ?
   D      : I am a lecturer in a college.
  Sri Bh : That is your profession. Who re you ?
   D      I am a human being.
  Sri Bh : That is your birth-womb. But who are you ?
  D       : I am a man.
  Sri Bh  : That is your gender. Who are you ?
  D        : It looks as if I do not know myself.

                                                            Source: New Dawn, Sri A.R. Natarajan

     That is it. We do not know ourselves. We do not know the subject who appears to
     know every thing else as objects. 

                                                                         Thank You.
                                                                             Anil   
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 14, 2010, 05:35:54 PM



Talks No. 371:

Devotee:  What is Jnana marga?

Bhagavan:  I have been saying it so long.  What is Jnana?  Jnana
means realization of the Truth.  It is done by dhyana.  Dhyana
helps you to hold on to the Truth to the exclusion of all thoughts.

Devotee:  Why are there so many Gods mentioned?

Bhagavan:  The body is only one.  Still, how many functions are performed by the body?  The source of all the functions is only one.
It is in the same way with the Gods also. 

Devotee:  Why does a man suffer misery?

Bhagavan:  Misery is due to multifarious thoughts.  If the thoughts
are unified and centred on a single idem, there is no misery.  But happiness is the result.  Then, even the thought, "I do something"
is absent; nor will there be an eye on the fruit of action.

Talks, No. 518:

Bhagavan ......Aham kriti is not the same as Aham.  The latter is supreme reality, where as the former is the ego.  It is to be overcome before the Truth is realized.  The Supreme Being is unmanifest and the first sign of manifestation is Aham Sphurama
[the light of the "I"].  The Brahadaranyaka Upanishad says Aham Nama abhavat [He became 'I' named].  This is the original name of Reality.

Talks No. 62:

...Again sphurana is the foretaste of realization.  It is pure.  The subject and object proceed from it.  If the man mistakes himself for the subject, objects must necessarily appear different for him.  They are periodically withdrawn and projected, creating the world and the subject's enjoyment of the same.  If, on the other hand, the man feels himself to the screen on which the subject and object are projected, there can be no confusion, and he can remain watching their appearance and disappearance without any perturbation to the Self.



Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 15, 2010, 11:36:54 AM
   How does the individuality or the personality function ? My understanding is as follows :
 The first thought that arises on waking is the central or the pivotal I-thought or the 'I-Am-Body' thought.
 This root I-thought , as you are aware, has two parts. The consciousness part,'I-Am' and 'idam' part or 'this'.
 It should be noted here by seekers , rather carefully, that the 'body' is the first 'idam' or 'this' to arise. This body
 'idam' associated with the Intelligence or consciousness, 'I-Am' is the individuality. Now, the experiences,
 that this body-mind complex has to undergo, under the force of the prarabdha, are all present in thought forms
 which are connected with the root I-thought. But as we know that all thoughts including the I-thought are
 insentient, jada. Then question arises how inert and lifeless thoughts can function seemingly as one whole,
 creating individuality ? The answer is: The consciousness or  the intelligence part, 'I-Am' in the 'I-Am-Body'
 thought links and binds all thoughts as one whole which is called ego-centric mind.

 But we see that the thoughts are always moving. A thought rises , has its stay till an another thought
 takes its place. We must remember here that thoughts appear to have life and energy only because of the
 attention of the thinker. Movement in thoughts is also caused by the shift in the attention of the thinker.
 This is also within the experience of all us that a thought remains energised and lively only so long as
 attention is rivetted to it. The moment the attention of the thinker shifts to another thought, the thought
 looses all power at once and simply vanishes.

  In this way, dear devotees, 'idam' or 'this' part , starting with the body, is ever changing, depending
 on the thinker's response to various situations and events as ordained under the 'prarabdha'.

                                                                                    Thank You,
                                                                                       Anil
     
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 15, 2010, 12:38:18 PM



Yes.  Thoughts are not distinct from Swarupam.

Muruganar says in GVK Verse 890:

Divorced from the non-dual fullness, all the accumulated worldly
phenomena that cling to one as 'this' and 'that' are not at all real.
The conclusion to be drawn is that all these things are an entirely
imaginary superimposition upon it, the non dual fullness.

Muruganar adds here:

Here it is stressed that all the multifarious phenomena that are associated with maya are in truth non existent, when divorced of
the Self, which is non dual fullness. All the manifestations of the triputis resolve themselves and end as the creations of the mind.
There is neither mind nor thoughts distinct from Swarupam.  This illustrates the subtle truth of the world's reality.  If seen as Brahman, the world is real.  Otherwise it must be declared to be entirely false.

[Tr. David Godman]

Bhagavan Ramana also says that all thoughts are inconsistent
with realization.  The correct state is to exclude thoughts of ourselves and all other thoughts.  Thought is one thing and realization is quite another.  [Talk No. 30]



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 16, 2010, 08:13:57 AM
I"].  The Brahadaranyaka Upanishad says Aham Nama abhavat [He became 'I' named].  This is the original name of Reality.
   Dear Sri Subramaninan Ji,
 
  Thank you so much for very,very nice and beautiful posts. Sri Bhagwan while commenting on Sri Adi Shankara's
'jagat mithyam' statement said that people see only the first line (Jagat mithyam) and criticise the Acharya.
 Sri Bhagwan said that the jagat seen apart from Brahman is mithya, an illusion. Jivas are One with Brahman.
 All is Brahman.

  Dear Sir, thank you so much for quoting 'Aham Nama abhavat', original name of the Reality from Brahadaranyaka.
 Would you kindly shed some more light on 'Aham' and 'Aham Sphurna' ?

                                                                        With Regards
                                                                            Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 16, 2010, 08:30:34 AM



Dear Anil,

Aham is the first name given by Rishis for Brahman. Srikanta in his
Brahmasutra Bhashya says:  Aham pathartha Sivaya Namah:  Salutations to Siva who is the meaning of the word Aham.

Muruganar says:

For those who attention is focused on the Self, only the name
aham-aham [I-I], among many known names of God will constantly reverberate in the Heart firmament once the ego has been destroyed,
and it will remain there, centre-stage, as the silent transcendental speech.  [Paravak].

Para, pasyanthi, Vaikari - says Sri Lalita Sahasranamam.

Padamalai Verse 622 says:

That trustworthy vichara exists neither in book learning nor in
learning from others, but only in one's own sense of "I" - Aham.

Bhagavan Ramana says in Verse 44 of Sri AAMM:

"If you turn within and see, it will appear,"  -- you said to me,
O Arunachala!



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 16, 2010, 11:08:12 AM
 Padamalai Verse 622 says:

That trustworthy vichara exists neither in book learning nor in
learning from others, but only in one's own sense of "I" - Aham.


 Dear Sri Subramanian Ji,

  Thank you so much sir for such a beautiful and one of the most apt quotes in the context of the current
 discussion.

  I quote two verses from Srimad Bhagvad Gita in which Sri Lord Krishna in one verse says
 that I am both sat (being, existence ) and asat ( non-being, non-existence ) and in the other verse He says
 that I am beyond both sat and asat.

  " Tapamy aham, aham varsam nigrhnamy utsrjami ca,
    amritam c'aiva mrtyus ca sad asac c'aham Arjuna. "
 'I give heat, and I send forth as well as withhold rain. I am, O Arjuna ! both existence and non-existence.'
                                                                            Verse-19, Ch-9

  "Jneyam yat pravaksyami yat jnatva'mrtam asnute,
   anadimat param brama na sat tan n'asad ucyate."
 ' I shall now declare the Object which ought to be known, by knowing which one attains to immortality.
   It is SupremeBrahman, the eternal Being who can not be described either as existent or non-existent.
   ( in the way sense-bound material objects are described ) '

                                                                            With Regards,
                                                                               Anil         
   

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 16, 2010, 04:04:10 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Ji

 I wish to quote the Verse no 16, Ch 2, from Srimad Bhagavad  Gita  in which Lord Krishna explains 'Sat' and 'Asat' in terms of the Existence Itself.
 “ N’asato vidyate bhavo n’abhavo vidyate satah,
   ubhayor api drsto’ntas tv anayos tattva darsibhih.”
Satah-           Of the Real
Astah-           Unreal
Bhavah-        Being or Existence
Abhavah-      Non-being or Non-existence
Taatvadarshi-Truth-seer
‘The Unreal can never come into existence, and the real can never cease to be.’
Dear  Sir, how do we understand ‘Asat’ or the unreal in the above verse ? It says  ‘Asat’ has no bhava or the unreal has no existence. What does it exactly mean for us ? Is ‘Asat’ or the unreal  non-existent like the horn of a hare  or the son of a barren woman  which are merely the figment of imagination and which can not be experienced ?

 Question that is of  importance here is whether the coming into existence of ‘Asat’ can be totally denied like the horn of a hare or the  son  of a barren woman ? By the Grace of Sri Bhagwan, it can now be easily understood that coming into being of such an entity i.e. ‘Asat’, in fact, means transient and ever changing forms of the empirical existence that our body-mind complex experiences. Therefore, ‘Asat’ is the transient, ephemeral and ever changing forms of the ‘System of Forms’ i.e. empirical realities. But the verse 2-16 of the Gita says that ‘Asat’ has no being , no existence. Sir, in my opinion, ‘Asat’ in the verse means that these changing  forms have no continuity in themselves. They are fleeting ; come and go, no permanency.

 What is the most important to note is this that when all these forms cease, they leave no vestige, no residue whatsoever. And what remains is the ‘Sat’ or the Essence or the Being, the Substratum, on which all these forms appear and disappear and which is the ‘Witness of Change’.

                                                                                              With Regards,
                                                                                                  Anil

             
 
 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 16, 2010, 04:43:37 PM



Dear Anil, with my limited understanding of Sanskrit, the prefix
'a' is added to a word to denote the opposite meaning.   Ajnanam-
Jnana, Sat-asat, soukyam - asoukyam [health and ill health.]

Jnanam and Sat denote the Real.  So asat and ajnanam denote
unreal and also unnatural.  The unnatural is totally false.  Like
the child of a barren woman or horns of a hare.  Unreal is appearing
as real sometimes, due to ignorance.  Like mirage is taken for water
and a garland is mistaken for a snake. 

Bhagavan Ramana says in Talks No. 289:

To know that there never was ignorance is the goal of all spiritual
teachings.  Ignorance  must be of  one who is aware.  Awareness 
is Jnanam.  Jnanam is eternally real and natural . Ajnanam is unnatural and unreal.     

Padqmalai, Verse 1011 says:

If Self consciousness is asat and insentient [jada] in nature, then
tell me how objective knowledge [suttarivu  in Tamizh] exists for
you?



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 16, 2010, 04:58:30 PM



Dear Anil,

Incidentally, Nasatho vidyathe bhavo - [2.16] of
Srimad Bhagavad Gita is said to be the most secret verse
of the scripture.  Bhagavan Ramana says :  All that we see
with indriyas [senses] are asat.  The seer is Sat.  Only
Tattvadarsis can realize this Truth.




Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 17, 2010, 07:28:07 AM
      Dear Sri Subramanian Ji,

  Ji, Yes, the Verse 2.16 and some other verses from Srimad Bhagwat Gita, most of Sri Bhagwan’s own verses and Sri Muruganar’s verses in general have made deep impact on me. In truth, they changed my life for ever.

  Dear Sir, as I have informed you earlier, I am leaving Patna today for Tiruvannamalai.
I shall reach Sri Ramanasramam on the 20 th and I shall return to Patna on the 26 th of this month. I do not know whether I would be able to maintain the thread of the discussion
meanwhile. Thank you  so much for a very fruitful and satisfying discussion I had with you
of late.

                                                                                                      With Regards,
                                                                                                           Anil


Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 17, 2010, 11:27:01 AM



Dear srkudai,

Very nice.  Heart, son of a barren woman and mirage or garland
mistaken for serpent.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 17, 2010, 03:09:07 PM
SAT is what IS and is not subject to change.
ASAT is what is not there and not available for perception. Like the horns of a hare.
MITHYA is defined as "Sva-kalepi tistati", that which remains in its own time.

All this is Mithya. It is born, stays for some time and then goes.

The snake on the rope cannot be called SAT, coz it is changing. IT cannot be called ASAT also coz its available for perception. It is Mithya. It appears to be tehre but not there.

      Dear Sri Udai Shankar,
 
 A very, very, nice  and  enlightening post, Sir. Thank you so much  for
 differentiating ‘Mithya’ from ‘Asat’ so beautifully. This is, in my view, a very brilliant  post that
gives intellectual clarity to ‘Sat’, ‘Asat’ and ‘Mithya’. Thank you so much, Sir.

                                                                                                          With Regards,
                                                                                                                Anil   

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 27, 2010, 08:06:11 AM
    Dear Devotees,

  I returned to Patna yesterday. What luck ! What fortune ! His Grace enabled me to witness
 the supremely divine and uplifting enactment at Tiruvannamalai. I felt Oneness hither to
 unknown. The Guru, I am aware, does not seek anything in return, but, nevertheless,
 a devotee, I feel, feels, and must feel, that how can he even think to perform ‘gurudakshina’
 to such a ‘Sadguru’ who gives unasked, other than having erased his ego surrenders in totality
 and pursues, steadfastly and single-mindedly, the ‘Teaching’ with absolute faith ?

 Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan often asked, ”Are there two shelves or two ‘I’s ? “
We must contemplate deeply that there is One Shelf, one ‘I’ and we are not different from It,
WE are verily It.

                                                                                                             Thank You,
                                                                                                                   Anil     

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 27, 2010, 09:25:55 AM



Dear Anil,

I am extremely happy to know that you had been to Tiruvannamalai.
It is an enlightening experience for any one who go there and spend
some days there.  Had you been there on Mahadeepam Day?  It is
worth watching as the only fortune of this birth.  How many days
did you stay and could you eat in Asramam?  Bhagavan Ramana always insisted on devotees' taking food there.  If anyone could go there during breakfast or lunch or dinner time, He would insist
on them to eat there.  This is Guru Ramana Prasadam, as Muruganar says.  Many devotees had been cured of stomach and other ailments
by eating there once. 

I would request you to give the details of your visit in your next post.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 27, 2010, 05:57:55 PM
    Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,
                               Pranam,

  Ji, yes, Sri Bhagwan’s Grace enabled me to be in Tiruvannamalai on the ‘Maha Deepam’ day on 21.11.2010  and to witness the most uplifting, enlightening and the supremely divine enactment which was a breath taking and thought erasing spectacle for gods to watch.

  Dear sir, I reached Bangalore from Patna by Sanghmitra Expr.at 10 p.m. on 20.11.2010 and in the morning on 21.11. 2010 at 8 a.m. set out by a Volvo bus from Majesty, Bangalore, with my wife, and reached Tiruvannamalai at 1 p.m. The bus detoured to the ‘giripradakshina’ path at its junction with the asramam road. We alighted from the bus at this point, took an auto, and reached Sri Ramanasramam at about 1.30 p.m. After ‘Darshan’ and prostrating to the Sadguru, I received the key for room, no. M-28 (Mourvi Gurst House) and stayed in it up to 24.11.2010 till departure.

  Ji, yes, during all my visits to Sri Ramanasramam, I and my wife  have taken all food from tea and breakfast to lunch and dinner in Sri Ramanasramam only.
  I saw final touches being given to all preparations, be it barricading for crowd control tomorrow, security arrangement, temporary shop erection on both sides of the giripradkshina path and so on.
And Sri Ramanasramam was being decorated like the bride’s house just before the arrival of the bride groom and the party. Devotees were already performing giripradkshina from the evening of the penultimate day of the ‘Maha Deepam’ day, but only in trickle. But when I awoke at 5 a.m. in the morning on the ‘Maha Deepam’ day, devotees in thick streams, men and women, the young and the  old, in variety of colours and moods, were doing giripradkshina. I and my wife started giripradkshina at about 9 a.m., after prostrating to the Sadguru and Sri Arunachala from Sri Ramanasramam itself  and completed it at 1.30 p.m.after prostrating to the Guru and Sri Arunachala. But such great was the stream of the devotees that my wife got separated from me when we were approaching the town. But I was not perturbed in the least knowing with cent percent certainty that she would reach Sri Ramanasramam and complete her giripradkshina as well and reach the Asramam safely and unhurt which she did by only Sri Bhagwan’s Grace. However, she got a bit panicky when she approached the ‘Great Temple’ because of the great rush of the devotees on the path and everywhere, wherever she could direct her gaze. We neither ate any thing nor did we attend to natural calls till we completed the giripradkshina at 1 p.m. After noon , I am not certain whether we would  have been able to perform it due to  vast number of devotees on the path. We were not able to cross the road to reach the room in the Mourvi Guest House from Sri Ramanasramam where we had been provided accommodation.

  Guests and devotees started assembling by 5 p.m. in the evening outside of the ‘Samadhi Hall’ where very elaborate arrangement had been made for the ‘Deepam Ceremony’ in the Asramam. We all sat outside the Samadhi Hall on the pathway and the beautiful sprawling lawn next to it, holding our breath and thoughts, full of deep reverence and piety and with great expectation. At exactly 6 p.m., I witnessed the ‘Light of Knowledge’ aflame atop (of) Sri Arunachala. Almost simultaneously, Deepam of Jnana was lit in the Asramam. We all stood up raising our both hands, some towards Sri Arunachala and some towards the Sadguru, chanting Arunachal Shiva. Whole place was filled with the light and sound of the fire and crackers. My ceased mind could not take in all and the eyes were filled with tears. However, after prostrating to Sri Arunachala and the Guru, we all sat around the ‘Deepam of Jnana’, lit outside of the Samadhi  Hall, arranged with so much care, and started chanting verses from the ‘Akshar mana malai’ and ‘Ramana Sadguru’. This heavenly and the divine event was reenacted daily till 23.11.2010,exactly at 6 p.m.

  Next day on 22.11.2010, I with my wife performed Puja in the ‘Great Temple’. On 23.11.2010, Sri Arunachleshwara and the Mother from the Great Temple were taken out in a great procession round the town. When the procession reached Sru Ramanasramam’s gate where stood in reverence all the inmates of the Asramam including the President besides the other devotees in great number. Puja was performed and offering from the Asramam made to Sri Arunachaleshwara and the Mother near the Asramam’s gate itself. This event perhaps signified the culmination of the ‘Maha Deepam’ Ceremony.

  I must mention that whenever I had time, I sat either in the Samadhi Hall or the Old Hall where air is thick with the palpable ‘Presence’ of Sri Bhagwan and where I had uplifting vivid experience.

  On 24.11.2010, I with my wife, after breakfast, came to Katpadi by a taxi arranged by the Asramam and boarded the same Sanghmitra Expr and reached Patna on 26.11.2010 at about 1 p.m.

  Dear Sir, I did not carry a camera on this visit to Tiruvannamalai. However, I took some snaps
from my mobile phone. Although the quality of the photographs is not good, I wish to upload some of them for the benefit of some devotees who may like to see. May I do so ? Thank you.

                                                                                                     With Regards,
                                                                                                            Anil               
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 27, 2010, 06:33:25 PM



Thank you for your nice post.  Yes.  It is a mind-stopping experience.
In fact, I never had been there on Mahadeepam days, and in 2008 for the first time, I went there after three days.  Still I and my wife could
see the deepam still burning atop the Hill.   The view from Seshadri
Swami Asram right before Sri Dakshinamurty will be still better. But
I have not witnessed the Jnana Deepam alighted in the Asramam.
Every experience in a visit is worth remembering.  No untoward incident will happen either due to crowd or weather.  Do not worry.
Now that you have gone once, you will come every year once.  Bhagavan Ramana will automatically call you.  Our job is to continue keep the fire of faith burning.  I saw the webcam photo on every evening from Sunday to Thrusday.  I saw the light burning.  Perhaps
due to mist, it is not visible after Thursday. 

The Old Hall and Samadhi Hall are very potent places to feel His Presence.  Bhagavan Ramana was there in the Old Hall for more than 25 years giving darshan almost daily.  Now this Presence is also felt in Samadhi Hall.

You have not missed the breakfast, lunch, tea and dinner.  These are all the prasadams of Bhagavan Ramana.  One should eat it and see
the results himself.
 
Let Bhagavan be ever with you and your family. Thanks.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 27, 2010, 06:44:38 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I am sorry, by mistake, I mentioned that I reached Bangalore on 20.11.2010.
In fact I reached Bangalore on 19.11.2010 and the next day on 20.11.2010 at 8 a.m.
set out by a volvo bus and reached Tiruvannamalai at about 1 p.m. the same day.

  Dear sir, I purchased ‘Padmalai’ and ‘Guru Vachaka Kovai’  by Sri Muruganar 
besides other books  from the Ashram Book-Depot. I already had Sri Sadhu Om’s translation of the Guru Vachaka Kovai. However, Dr Murty and Sri Kanan of Sri Ramanasramam suggested me to go through Sri Godman’s translation  of the same also. The verses you quoted from ‘Padamalai’ deeply touched me and, therefore,
I purchased it which is the first English translation of the great work by Sri Muruganar by Sri Godman. Sir, will you kindly enlighten me about this great work by the great devotee and poet ? What does the term ‘Padamalai’ exactly mean ? Thank you.

                                                                                       With Regards,
                                                                                              Anil       

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 27, 2010, 07:58:23 PM



Dear Anil.

Muruganar wrote about 30,000 verses on Bhagavan Ramana.  He was an extempore poet, highly knowledgeable in Tamizh poetic meters
and grammar.  The first collection, was Sri Ramana Sannidhi MuRai.
A few of the verses from this have been translated into English by
Prof. K. Swaminathan.  The work is styled after Saint Manikkavachagar's, Tiruvachakam.  This is only speaking about the glories of Bhagavan.

The second lot is called Guru Vachaka Kovai.  This contains various
teachings of Bhagavan Ramana.  The original Tamizh verses have been corrected by Bhagavan Himself and He has also added about
20+ verses in between.  The first translation came from Michael James and Sri Sadhu Om.  This is somewhat tough.  David's translation is easier and contains many quotes and conversations
of Bhagavan Ramana at appropriate places.  This is a standard book if you do not understand Tamizh verses.   This is styled after Saint Manikkavachagar's Tiru Kovaiyar. Padamalai has been the third large book.  This contains teachings of Bhagavan randomly and this was again, barring a few,  re-arranged and set topicwise and translated by David Godman.  Padamalai means Padam + malai i.e. Garland of guru's padam.  Here padam means feet and also the source.

After this Robert Butler's Guru Ramana Prasadam has come.  This is a verse by verse by translation of Tamizh Ramananubhuti.  Experience of Guru Ramana. 

The remaining verses have been mostly published as original
Tamizh books under:

Sri Ramananubhuti 
Sri Ramanubhuti Venba
Sri Guru Ramana Prasadam.

Many more verses are still in Tamizh.  Delhi Ramana Kendra has
published the remaining books in 9 volumes.  Only one edition has come.  Each volume was priced at Rs 10.00!  I have got about 7
volumes of the book, picked from Ramana Book Stock Store and
not from the book shop.  These contain Ramana Alankaram etc.,
apart from earlier stated Sri Ramananubhuti, Sri Ramananubhuti
Venba and Padamalai.

Many more manuscripts, which have not seen the print,  should also be there.



Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 28, 2010, 01:24:51 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,
                      Pranam,

  Thank you so much,sir, for providing complete and comprehensive information on the great poet and
 a great devotee's Sri Muruganar's works. So, I have following works of the great poet in my possession
 right now :

  1. Guru Vachaka Kovai- Sri Sadhu Om
  2. - Do-                   - Sri David Godman
  3. Sri RAmana Anubhuti- Sri Robert Butler
    (Non-Dual Consciousness)
  4. Sri Guru Ramana Prasadam- Sri Robert Butler
  5. Padamalai                - Sri David Godman
     
   Dear Sir, besides the above works, what other works of the great poet is invaluable
   and that , in your opinion,may help an earnest seekers ?

                                                             With Regards,
                                                                 Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 28, 2010, 01:45:47 PM
                           

                                     









                                                    Jnana Deepam
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 28, 2010, 01:54:19 PM



Dear Anil,

You have got most of the books of Muruganar that have been rendered in English.  There is only one book, the first one, Sri Ramana Sannidhi
MuRai,speaking only about glories of Sri Bhagavan and Muruganar's
pining devotion for Him.  Some songs of the Tamizh book have been
rendered in English, by Prof. K. Swaminathan, in 1994.  The publisher
is Sri Ramansramam.  Since there is no reprint, you may try since it
might be difficult to get this old book.

One song from Desika Padigam - Decad on Guru Ramana

This is the first song written by Muruganar on his maiden visit to
Sri Bhagavan:

Guru Ramana, Siva, as once you left
Mount Kailas and the company of gods,
And came to cool Perundurai to drink in
The sparkling words of Vachagar,
Now again you have come to the fair Aruna Hill
Wishing to hearken to this fellow's puerile words.



Arunachala Siva.
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 29, 2010, 09:59:41 AM
Dear  Sir, old devotees of Sri Bhagwan appear to be far better spiritually evolved than devotees today. Is this because of the age or because of Sri Bhagwan's physical presence? 
What is meant by Perundurai? Thank you, sir. Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 29, 2010, 11:01:50 AM



Dear Anil,

Young or old, devotees of Bhagavan Ramana can always attain their
goals.  For some the devotion and faith comes about at very young
age and for others, it comes later.  Perhaps, only advantage is that
as one gets old, he invariably has got some ailments, and this if
properly understood, will help him to give up his body consciousness.

Bhagavan Ramana's direct devotees are a class by themselves.  Apart from seeing Him personally, they have also  heard His direct
teachings and have seen how He led His life for 54 years in
Tiruvannamalai.  But at the same time, the Presence is important
than the bodily form.  This, Bhagavan Himself, repeatedly told them.
There are today, many Bhagavan's devotees, who have come to Him
after 1950.  It is the Presence which has attracted them.

Perundurai or Tiru Perundurai is a village in Pudukottai district,
and there is a Siva temple.  It is here, Saint Manikkavachagar had
his first darshan of Siva, who came in the guise of a brahmin and
gave him pada-diksha, touch by the feet.  Saint Manikkavachagar
who was a Minister in Pandya Kingdom, left his job and went to several temples in Tamizh Nadu, and finally merged with Siva in
Chidambaram.  In between, there were many 'tests' for him.  He stood the pains and miseries of these tests.  Saint Manikkavachagar has written two groups of poems, one is Tiruvachakam, with about
550+ songs and then Tiru Kovaiyar, a continuous set of 400 poems.  Saint Manikkavachagar was to Siva, what Muruganar was to
Bhagavan Ramana.  Muruganar followed the style and pattern of
Saint Manikkavachagar's pomes in his works.

Estoerically Perundurai = Periya [Big] turai [Shore], means the
Heart, where the Self is realized, where the ego becomes quiescent and rests with the Self.     



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramanaduli on November 29, 2010, 02:58:52 PM
Dear Subramaniyan ji,

Thank you for giving the meaning of Thruperundurai. For all these days, I thought, Thruperundurai means, the town which has a big shore that is why Manikkavachakar went to buy the horses. Now you explained the inner meaning of Thruperundurai.
All ego should reach and merge in the shore of aham i.e. "Self"

Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 29, 2010, 05:05:19 PM



Dear Ramanaduli,

In a way you are correct.  Tiruperundurai is a town in Pudukotta
District on the east coast of Tamizh Nadu.  This is actually near
the sea shore only.  Hence the name.  Pandya King, under whom
Saint Manikkavachagar [his original name was Tiruvadavurar, a man
who hailed from Tirvdavur near Madurai.], was a Minister, was asked to go to the eastern coast near Tiruperundurai, and buy some Arabic horses, that were coming in ships for sale.  But the saint was attracted by Siva who gave pada diksha.  Then, the saint changed his mind and started building a temple for Siva.  All the money held for buying horses were spent on this.  The king knew this through secret agents, brought the saint and imprisoned him.  Then Somasundara, Siva in Madurai came at the night and said that
money had not misused and the horses will come in a day or two, as he is the horse agent.  The saint was released.  The horses,
good Arabic breed came after 2 days and they were kept in the stable.  On the third night, the horses became jackals and broke open the stable and rushed here and there with howling sounds!  The Pandya King became doubly angry and he again imprisoned the saint.  He punished him by making him walk on the hot sands of summer Vaigai river which had no water, with hot bricks held on the head.  The saint put up with these ordeals and obeyed the King and hoping that Siva would do something.

Suddenly floods came in Vaigai and the banks were breached.  Every citizen was asked to fetch some baskets of sand and place it on the breached banks.  There was one Pittu Vani, an old lady selling Pittu i.e rice flour mixed with jaggery paste.  She was quite old and she could not do her portion of the job.  Siva appeared before her and told that he would do her portion of the job and asked Pittu as a collie.  The old lady did that.  Siva simply lied under a tree shade and slept.  The King came suddenly and asked the old Pittu Vani why she did not do her work.  She said one young boy was doing her work in proxy.  The king searched for the boy who was sleeping.  The king took his leather leash and hit him.  When the blow fell on the boy's back, everyone got the pain in Madurai including the king.  The king was wondering. Then Siva appeared before him and said: Please release the saint.  He is my devotee.  The breached banks of Vaigai river would be covered by my bhuta ganas this night.  Go back peacefully.  Then the King prostrated before Siva and also sought forgiveness of the saint.

Then the saint left Madurai and started visiting temples and sang the glories of Siva.  Unlike other Tevaram saints, he did not visit many places but only a few.  He sang Tiruvachakam and Tiru Koviyar on his way at various temples and Siva came as a brahmin and took notes of all the poems.  Then he reached Chidambaram.  There Siva told Anabhya Chozha to have the scripts and call the saint.  The Chozha King called the saint and next day at the sanctum sanctorum of Chidambaram temple, he prostrated before the saint and asked for the meanings of the poems.

The saint said looking at Nataraja:  Meaning.  The meaning and purport of all these poems is He.  He then merged with Siva Nataraja as a huge light.

The King then ordered the scripts to be written in gold plates and kept them underneath some steps, which even today you see, at the left entrance of Nataraja's inner sanctorum.



Arunachala Siva.                   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 30, 2010, 06:23:44 AM
DJear Sri Subramanian Sir, thank you so much for captivating narration of Sri Manikkavachakar's story. The tales of great Tamil sages like Sri Manivakkavachakar,Sri Jnana Sambandhar and Sri Appar are very cdptivating and inspiring. These and influence of Tevram has shaped the spiritual consciousness of the devotees from the time immemorial. Thank you so much,sir.I have temporarily lost access to computer due to field posting. At present I am trying to maintain the thread of discussion by the mobile net. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on November 30, 2010, 09:01:36 AM



Dear Anil,

Bhagavan Ramana has narrated the stories of all four saints, i.e.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar, Tiru Navukkarasar [otherwise called Appar,
since the first one who was a child-saint called the second one as
Father, Appa, in Tamizh], Sundaramurty Swami and Manikkavachagar
on different occasions in His conversations with the devotees.
He used to shed tears and stopped the stories in between on those
occasions.  Only a true Brahma Jnani can be an ardent devotee too.
Once He was narrating the story of Tiru Jnana Sambandhar and wept uncontrollably.  After sometime, He said, Is He not Siva's
son?....

Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni has said in Sri Ramana Gita:  He was
born as Tiru Jnana Sambandhar to spread bhakti marga, and then
as Kumarila Bhatta to spread karma marga, and now He is born
as Sri Ramana to spread jnana marga.  All the three are Skanda's
[Murugan's] avatara.

Sri Sankara in his Sri Soundarya Lahari has said:  O Mother!  Your
son Skanda has taken birth as Tiru Jnana Sambandha and has taken your breast milk.  Sambandha when he was three year old, and when he went to temple tank in Sirkazhi with his father, cried suddenly and Mother Uma came with Siva and gave her breast
milk.  He started singing songs on glories of Siva thereafter.



Arunachala Siva.   

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on November 30, 2010, 06:37:05 PM
   Dear Sir, Sri Bhagwan often narrated the tales of the four most famous saivite saints of the Periapuranam and often sobbed uncontrolably. He said that the devotion of Sri Sundramurthy to the Lord is that of a friend, of  Sri Manikkavachakkar that of the beloved, of  Sri Appar that of a servent and Sri Sambander that of a son. But sir, I wish to know whether the great saint and poet  Sri Thayumanavar is not one of the 63 saivite saints of the Periyapuranam? Sri Thayumanavar sang "Ego disappearing another I-I spontaneously manifests in full glory." Again, " Glory to Thee for enabling meto discuss so much and follow Thy words so far !" Regards, Anil.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: soham3 on November 30, 2010, 09:47:35 PM
Where is the need for self-enquiry when you are already Brahman ?
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Vladimir on November 30, 2010, 09:57:02 PM
Quote
Where is the need for self-enquiry when you are already Brahman ?

If you're really convinced that you're Brahman, there's no need for anything.
Self-enqiry is a way to be convinced in it.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 01, 2010, 07:14:07 AM



Dear soham3, Vladimir,

Yes.  We are already Brahman, no doubt, but we do not realize
it.  Our eyes are okay.  But there is cataract which hides the eyes.
If the cataract, the growth of unwanted ego/thoughts are removed,
then our eyes become clear.  The eye-surgeon is the guru, who
removes the cataract.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 01, 2010, 09:12:42 AM
   Dear soham3, yes,whatever exists is Brahman alone whose nature in essence is pure consciousness. But we assign reality to the mind and its creation that we empirically know as the world amd even enjoy it little realising that it is mere shadow chasing. Non-duality is jnana,duality is samsara. If we can do away with duality, Brahman alone rdmains, and we discover ourselves to be that Brahmam. But to make this discovery  continuous effort is needed, as Sri Subramanian sir so beautifully ellaborated by the example of cataract in the eye. Eye surgeon is needed to remove the cataract of the ego. And that surgeon is the Guru. Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 01, 2010, 10:17:40 AM
  Dear Sri Vladimir, I felt very happy indeed when I read your nice,beutiful and the very apt posts. Indeed, Self-enquiry and   the Surrender to the Sadguru, as Sri Bhawan revealed, are the only two adepuate and infallible means to be convinced in to the great and only truth that indeed we all are Brahman only. Thank you so much for a very nice post. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 01, 2010, 10:30:05 AM



Dear srkudai,

Yes.  Only a true Brahmajnani can be an ardent bhakta.  Bhagavan
Ramana was once reading Tamizh Ramayanam.  He could not go
beyond a few pages.  He started shedding tears and kept the book
away.  Then He said:  I am wondering, how these people wrote
Ramayanam.

Whenever a scripture is written either Valmiki or
Vyasa or Kamban or Ehuthacchan had to 're-enact' the whole story,
they should have "the feelings" of Ravana or Kamsa or Duryodana,   whenever they wrote about Ramayana or Maha Bharatam.  This is very very difficult but at the same time, they had to do these, to depict the stories in language.  This is what Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman says.

Bhagavan Ramana has said:  Bhakti is Jnana Matha.



Arunachala Siva. 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 01, 2010, 10:37:18 AM



Dear Anil,

Saint Tayumanavar's time is only 17th century.  He is not one of the
63 Saints.  Tayumanavar, Pattinathar, and KaNNudaiya VaLLalar
all came around 17th and 18th century.  Their works speak about
Advaitam. 

Saint Tayumanavar was a Siva devotee.  His guru was one Mouna
Guru, who never spoke anything!  He said:  "That religion which
teaches me the state where thoughts get killed, in Silence, is my
religion."  Bhagavan Ramana used to quote this on a few occasions.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: soham3 on December 01, 2010, 11:49:08 AM
Quote
Where is the need for self-enquiry when you are already Brahman ?

If you're really convinced that you're Brahman, there's no need for anything.
Self-enqiry is a way to be convinced in it.

Irrespective of whether you are convinced and know it or not of being Brahman, you are indeed Brahman. In view of this fact, you can do any thing including murder & rape or you need not do any thing including your social duties to family or personal duty of attending call of nature.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 01, 2010, 01:29:53 PM



How can the cataract be removed unless you go to an eye surgeon.
Because of cataract [mind, which includes desire, anger, greed, hate
all these do murders, rape etc.,.].  The eye surgeon will remove
your cataract.  He is the Guru and his process of surgery is the
self inquiry or self surrender.  Then there are no thoughts.  But without thoughts, how can one do family work, going to office etc.,?
These will be done by the chitta-suddhi, [clean eye without cataract] which confers you a pure mind with which you will do all these household, office and personal duties. A clean eye is the Wisdom insight which shall not go anywhere near murders, rapes and other evil deeds.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Vladimir on December 01, 2010, 01:35:19 PM
Quote
Quote
Where is the need for self-enquiry when you are already Brahman ?

If you're really convinced that you're Brahman, there's no need for anything.
Self-enqiry is a way to be convinced in it.

Irrespective of whether you are convinced and know it or not of being Brahman, you are indeed Brahman.

Who knows this? If that one really knows oneself as Brahman, does he have any questions? If one has doubts, questions arise about whatever.
Until ice is broken one does not know this ice exists.

Quote
In view of this fact, you can do any thing including murder & rape or you need not do any thing including your social duties to family or personal duty of attending call of nature.

Why should I (you) bother about illusory future events? Who bother? Illusary "I" which was accepted as real in early chailhood. What was this "I" 100 eyars ago? Things happen as predestined whether this "I" like it or not; anyway and I am not the doer.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Vladimir on December 01, 2010, 01:37:47 PM
eranilkumarsinha

Thank you. My posts are empty talks only, no more.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 01, 2010, 02:25:04 PM



Dear Vladimir,

Yes.  Once you give up the doership and enjoyership [Kartrutvam
and Bhoghatatvam], which are both the products of "I', then you
can do anything in this world.  Giving up this false 'I' is the most
difficult job.  If this ego is vanquished, then the fort is on our hands
says Bhagavan Ramana.

Someone asked Bhagavan Ramana:  I am so lustful with my neighbour's wife, can I have union with her?   Bhagavan Ramana
gave him several answers that spoke about the purity of mind
etc., but the visitor did not accept it.  Finally He said:  You can
definitely have union with your neighbour's wife, provided you
do that act without doership and enjoyership.  This is the crux
of the whole issue.


   
Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 01, 2010, 02:47:12 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, thank you so much for providing important information about the Saint Thayumanjvar and His Guru.  Dear sir,  Sri Bhagwan has also said that only a Brahmjnani can be a true devotee. Initially I could not understand this statement. We all know that He shed tears and sobbed uncontrollably whenever He narrated a tale of great devotion. But He Himself has revealed that a Brahmjnani is God or Ishawara Himself. Therefore, puestion arises as to He being Himself God or Pure Consciousness,to whom this devotion ? But then I gradually understood that as His all actions are perfect, performed with pure mind, be it vegetable cutting, book binding or proof checking, likewise His devotion is absolute. Or, He is pure "I am" in devotion as His inaction in actions, devotion and actions appearing only to the onlookers. Regards, anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 01, 2010, 03:03:19 PM



Dear Anil,

All His actions during His 54 years of life in Tiruvannamalai, whether
be it vegetable cutting or cooking or making some herbal medicines,
or making a nice stick for the cowherd, or his love for animals including dogs, cow Lakshmi, or deer or even a pantheor or peacocks
are only to show to the devotees that Atma Jnanam and love for
fellow beings go together.  His life itself was a teaching for us.
His life and teachings cannot be separated.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 01, 2010, 03:09:56 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, "The eye surgeon removes the cataract. He is the Guru and His process of surgery is the Self enpuiry." And also " doership and the enjoyership are the crux of the matter." Very,very well said, sir. Thank you so much. Regards, Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 01, 2010, 03:20:16 PM
  Dear sir, ji, yes, I understand that Atmjnanam and love for fellow beings go together. Thank you.Regards, Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 01, 2010, 03:45:26 PM



Dear Anil,

Once one devotee Vasudeva Sastri went to the nearby tank for
bathing.  There a tiger was there.  Sastri came running back and
sat near Bhagavan Ramana with trembling limbs and fear in his
eyes.  Bhagavan Ramana asked:  Vasudeva, what, what?  Sastri
told Him that he met a tiger near the tank.  Bhagavan Ramana smiled and said:  O, a tiger, see, this is [the Hill] is their residence.  We are the intruders.  Even them, it would do no harm, if you do not show anger.  Come, let us go and see.  Both went
and saw the tiger.  Bhagavan asked the tiger:  "Ennada [what man!]? He is afraid of you." Looking at Bhagavan, the tiger roared once and simply went into the forests.  Bhagavan said:  See, he has come to drink water.  In this sweltering summer, where can he go for drinking water?  His work is over and he has gone.  You now go and bathe peacefully.  Vasudeva Sastri could not believe   

Enbolum dheenari inbuRa kaathu nee ennaLum vazhntharuL
Arunachala!  [Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai -  Verse 105

May You live for ever, as the loving saviour of poor and helpless
people, O Arunachala!



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: soham3 on December 01, 2010, 04:05:01 PM
  Dear sir, ji, yes, I understand that Atmjnanam and  love for fellow beings go together. Thank you.Regards, Anil

I disagree. Nisargadatta used to seethe with hatred at those whom he did not like. He kicked out many a person from his first floor room where he taught those who assembled.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: soham3 on December 01, 2010, 04:13:45 PM

 Things happen as predestined whether this "I" like it or not; anyway and I am not the doer.


Religiously indoctrinated mind is obsessed with the concept of pre-destiny. This is a concept which is in the regime of Non-Brahman.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: soham3 on December 01, 2010, 04:20:36 PM
How can the cataract be removed unless you go to an eye surgeon.
Because of cataract [mind, which includes desire, anger, greed, hate
all these do murders, rape etc.,.].  The eye surgeon will remove
your cataract.  He is the Guru and his process of surgery is the
self inquiry or self surrender. 

Cataract and mind have been imagined. So no need for guru-surgeon.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: soham3 on December 01, 2010, 04:29:05 PM

A clean eye is the Wisdom insight which shall not go anywhere near murders, rapes and other evil deeds.


An unenlightened man created concepts of murder, rape, evil, thoughts, words, deeds et cetera. In reality, they are not there at all. ONLY BRAHMAN IS THERE.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 01, 2010, 04:35:03 PM


Dear soham3,

Because you imagine 'mind' [which is not there at all, as Bhagavan
Ramana says], like you get into all sorts of thoughts, all sorts
of actions, some of them good and some of them are diabolic.
If you conquer the mind i.e thoughts, i.e ego, then there is no
desired actions [doership] and it will ultimately end in nishkamya
karamam [actions without desiring fruits] and finally to nishkarma
[non action.].  This is the bliss.

Bhagavan Ramana says in Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai,
Verse 37:

If I slumber in  quiet repose enjoying the Bliss of Being, what other moksha [liberation] is there, tell me, O Arunachala!

This slumber is not our deep sleep, where there is only suspended mind, which waits to jump out, as you wake up.  It is the slumber in bliss.  Ati-sushupti in Sanskrit.



Arunachala Siva.    
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 01, 2010, 04:39:24 PM



Dear soham3,

What is good and what is evil?  Good is that which does not harm
fellow beings.  Bad is that which harms fellow beings.  Even when
government and police are trying to establish this in our worldly lives, why not a Jnani consider this as important for atma jnana.  After all, as Plato said that a brahma Jnani should be the King of a country to establish this and not any one else.   



Arunachala Siva.
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Vladimir on December 01, 2010, 05:36:53 PM

 Things happen as predestined whether this "I" like it or not; anyway and I am not the doer.


Religiously indoctrinated mind is obsessed with the concept of pre-destiny. This is a concept which is in the regime of Non-Brahman.

Please, tell me any concept which is in Brahman regime. Of course, if we talk about any functioning of the manifested world we step into the field of duality.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Vladimir on December 01, 2010, 05:46:10 PM
Quote
Dear Vladimir,

Yes.  Once you give up the doership and enjoyership [Kartrutvam
and Bhoghatatvam], which are both the products of "I', then you
can do anything in this world.

Dear Subramanian,

Am I in this world or is this world inside me?
Many people say "This world is inside me', but in fact 100% convinced they live in the world.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 01, 2010, 06:19:06 PM



Dear Vladimir,

For a Jnani who is ever abiding in Brahman, all the world appear,
sustain and dissolve in him.  For him, the world is within him.
Since in Brahman, there is nothing apart from Brahman, the one
without a second, where can there be something other than Brahman. So, the world is within him.  But for beginners and seekers, they think that 'they are in the world'.  If they are really in the world, where has the world gone in deep sleep?  In deep sleep, there is no world, there is no wife, no children, no office, no boss.  Only Me. In sleep it is said that Jiva gets drowned in Swatma Tirtham, the cool waters of his own Atma.  Only when he wakes up, the mind makes the mischief.  If he could make the mind quiscent,
then there is no world only Atma.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 01, 2010, 07:44:11 PM
  Dear Sri soham, when a devotee asked from Bhagwan Sri Ramana whether a devotee's actions would always be good only, His reply , "Should be. However He is not concerned really with  good and bad of His actions." As Sri Subramanian sir said, Greek philosopher Plato in his utopian state of  Sparta, pinpointed an enlightened to rule the state. Yes, of course, only an enlightened one can rule with eqal eye. Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 01, 2010, 08:02:28 PM
   In the above post a devotee asked from Sri Bhagwan whether a Brahmjnani's actions (and not a devotee's actions) would always be good. Sorry for the error. Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: soham3 on December 01, 2010, 10:58:13 PM
What is important is not good or bad or evil but differentiation between real and unreal. Of course, Samkhya philosophy & Rig-Veda stress on order in life and what is conducive for attainment of Atman.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 02, 2010, 06:49:32 AM
  Dear Sri soham3,yes, I also understand that discrimination between the real and the unreal is of paramount importance for all of us as seekers. That is why Sri Bhagwan and other great Gurus have used the Vedantic analogy of the snake and the rope to drive this very point home. We mistake a rope on the ground for a snake, while the snake exists only as an idea in our mind. That idea may cause us a lot of worry and anxiety, and we may even waste a lot of mental energy trying either avoid the non existent snake  or even kill it, but the basic facts remains: there is no snake outside our imagination. When we see the rope, the substratum upon which  our false idea of a snake is superimposed, the idea that there is a snake, and that is real, instantly vanishes. It is not a real snake that has disappeared. The only thing that has disappeared is an erroneous idea. The substratum or the screen upon which  the false idea of the mind has been superimposed is the Self. When we see the mind, the Self, the underlying reality, is not seen. It is hidden by a false but persistent idea. Conversely, when the Self is seen, there is no mind and no entertainmemt of such doubts and argument. But persistent effort, by the Grace of the Guru, is needed most to awake into that which is Bliss and which is our permanent Home. Guru's Grace results, in my view, in persistent Self enquiry. Dear soham3, I have lost access to a computer and I am uploading these posts from my mobile phone. Therefore, kindly bear with me if some error creep in. Thank you. Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 02, 2010, 07:19:07 AM
  Dear Sri Vladimir, having come to Bhagwan Sri Ramana, the Saviour, and having understood His  technique so well, why say mine is only empty talks.  I am certain that you are, by the Grace of the Guru, on the right course. Anyway, thank you so much for your response. Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 02, 2010, 09:48:40 AM



Dear soham3,

Yes.  I agree it is more important to differentiate between real and
unreal than to trying to distinguish between good and evil.  But
how will you correctly differentiate between unreal and real.  Many
bogus sadhus had gone behind the unreal, thinking it as Real, and
had fallen to dust.  So the preliminary requisite is to distinguish
between good and evil and eschew evil.  That is why Vedas which
are the first part stipulate this.  Then only one would obtain purity
of mind, chitta suddhi and then become a real differentiator between unreal and real.  This chitta suddhi is the first requisite
prescribed by the first part of Vedas, karma kandas.  The upanishads which are speaking only about Atma and self realization do not much care about preliminaries, because it is presumed for a practicer of atma vidya.   Upanishads say about stories, where
the guru gives a couple of cows and bulls and ask the disciple to graze them in forests and grass lands and come back in 12 years with 1000 cows and bulls.  Why?  This is to test the perseverance and effort of a disciple, who in his jungle years, would learn to distinguish between good and evil and come back duly fit for atma vidya.           

The same Rg Veda which prescribes karmas in the beginning,
says in the upanishad:  You are loving everyone for the sake Self within you.  You are loving your wife and children, for the sake of
Self within you.  The wife, the son and the wealth do not come with you when you die without realizing Atma etc., etc.,



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 02, 2010, 02:17:10 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, thank you so much for a very nice post. Sir, you have said in the above post that            discrimination between good and evil and eschewing evil are the prerequsites for Atma vidya.  I would like to draw your attention to a statement of Sri Bhagwan  on a simillar question. He has said that Self is the repository of all good and all ethical values. He has further said that Self enquiry itself takes care of the age old vasanas. My understanding about this statement of Sri Bhagwgn is that as a sadhak advances in the practice of Self enquiry, mind to that extent goes on purifying and finally resulting in chitta sudhi. Nevertheless, sir, to learn from you that Vedanta is silent on the ethical conduct because it is presumed for those desirous of Atma vidya is a very important understanding. Regards, Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 02, 2010, 02:43:06 PM



Dear Anil,

Bhagavan Ramana mentioned what you have said only to highlight
the Self Inquiry.  Self Inquiry if done, with great effort and with
no break, will itself confer chitta-suddhi and there is no need for
karmas, yoga practices etc.,  Even here, He did not add in the list
devotion, because devotion to God or Self is a must and it should
go along with Self Inquiry.  Unless you desire the Self [which He said is the only desire one should possess], how can one attain self realization?   He spoke about devotion to be part and parcel of
Self Inquiry.  It may start with devotion to a particular anthromarphic god and it becomes experience of the god.  Siva
becomes Sivam.

In fact, Bhagavan Ramana has also said that true namaskaram is bowing of the ego.

See Maharshi's Gospel:-

Question:  What is the relation between Jnana and bhakti?
Bhagavan:  The eternal, unbroken, natural state of abiding in
the Self is Jnana.  To abide in the Self, you must love the Self.
Since God is verily the Self, love of the Self is love of God.  And
that is bhakti.  Jnana and bhakti are thus one and the same.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 02, 2010, 07:12:24 PM
  Ji,yes,thank you so much,sir. Sri N. A. Mohan Rao, in July-September issue of the Mountain Path,has written that " it is clear that both Realization and Liberation are states of abidance in the Self. Realization is 'thoughtless', but can co-exist with dormant vasanas. Liberation, on the other hand, is 'thoughtless' as well as ' vasana-less'. Realisation, when it is rendered permanent by the eradication of all the vasanas, is Liberation". This implies that Realisation is still in the realm of sadhana. Sri Rao refers to Talks,no 95, Sri Bhagwgn says that experience is said to be temporary or permanent. This also, in my view, clearly implies that sporadic experiences with innate tendencies not yet burnt always posing a potential danger to revert one back to old stupidity. Dear sir, whatever, I have always felt that an earnest devotee should with real heart atleast make efforts, with Guru's Grace, to curb consciovsly evil instincts. Regards, Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 03, 2010, 08:06:42 AM
  Q. In the Ribh Gita it is mentiomed that bad qualities and good qualities are both Brahman. Does that mean that we don't need to care about good and bad qualities ?
Annamalai Swami:-      " to abide knowingly as consciousness is to be a deep, undisturbed peace, even though thoughts and activities may be manifesting in it. When you see through  the eyes of wisdom, there is only peace. No  bondage or samsara touches you. Even to say that the Self is peace is not quite correct. I call it peace, but really, it is not something that can be  described or defined by words.
  Good and bad qualities are ideas that manifests in the mind, in samsara. They are concepts that vanish when  only peace remains. When you are peace, when you are consciousness, all good qualities will manifest in you and through you, but you will not be aware of them as being ' good '.  You will jurt be that peace." 
   From Final Talks   
So, the idea of good and bad are concepts that will vanish only when the peace or the Self remains.
In Shrimadbhagwat Gita, V-2.59, Lord Sri krishana says that the one who has ceased to enjoy sense objects by their sense organs, are not quite free from vasanas, for  'rasa' in the sense objects for such a person remains, and which goes away only after one has attained steady abidance in the  Self. Sri Muruganar  also sang that vasanas die only when the eye of the Self fall on them. Thank you. Anil
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 03, 2010, 09:08:36 AM



Yes.  Only the Jiva who transcends the mind and becomes Peace,
which is another name for the Self, can only be at the state which
is beyond good and evil.  Good and evil are products of mind, like
Time and Space.  The Self realized Jnani has no place for either of them in his scheme of things.

Once Annamalai Swami was setting right the flooring of kitchen,
when he had to open some slabs for replacement with new slabs
with cementing in between.  He found a huge army of cockroaches
coming out of the bottom of the slabs.  He was hesitant to kill them
and was "dancing" on the place with great care to avoid stamping
on the cockroaches and not knowing what to do.  Bhagavan Ramana,
who came there saw him and told him:  "Why are you dancing?
Kill them all and replace the new slabs!"  Annamalai Swami was
wondering how a Jnani can give orders to kill cockroaches.  He must
have perhaps understood His state years later.  The same Sri
Bhagavan later was reluctant to kill the bugs on the sofa and even
intervened to avoid a squirrel being caught by a cat and in the process fell down and had a bone fracture on the shoulders.  The latter two events are to demonstrate to the sadhaks to avoid killing.  The first one was His portrayal of a Jnani.       



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 03, 2010, 09:23:37 AM



Muruganar says in Guru Vachaka Kovai, on the same subject:
[Tr. David Godman]:

Verse 275:  Those who are yoked to samsara by the twin karmas
[good and bad] that arise through ignorance, the powerful dense
delusion, suffer.  The devotion and longing they feel for the grace
of the Guru, who has taken the responsibility for them, is alone the medicine for dispelling their mental anguish.

Muruganar adds here:  It is the daily experience of everyone that sorrow arises through mental movements.  These arise in the Jiva
through samsara, which in turn arises from the twin karmas.  As the restlessness of the mind is itself sorrow, the medicine to destroy it is very much needed by sadhakas.  That medicine is meditating on the Guru's grace by following his teachings, which lead to complete contentment of mind.  You should know that there is no greater calming medicine than this.

Verse 276:  The demeaning good and evil karma [of devotees] originates from activities prompted by the desire and aversion
that arise through vasanas.  He alone is the true Guru who dispels their suffering and bestows the bliss of liberation upon those who, tossed about the power of their karma, seek refuge in him.

Verse 570:  An ignorant person thinks, through the delusion I-am-the body, that an individual 'I' exists separate from God,
the complete utter fullness.  So long as he believes himself to be an individual, it has to be accepted that he will alternately perform good and bad actions through the ego-feeling 'I am the doer' and will necessarily receive and experience their results in the form of joy and misery.

Verse 880:  The infinite eye is only being-consciousness.  As
it has no fraction [within itself], nothing whatsoever exists in its [perspective] to be known as "another".  It is devoid of the vision of the pairs of opposites such as good and evil, [and also devoid of]
space, time, cause, effect, karma and so on.



Arunachala Siva.         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 03, 2010, 01:49:25 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,
 
  Thank you so much for two very,very nice and enlightening posts. They cleared some of my doubts whth regard to goodness and evil. But I had not been aware that Sri Bhagwan had ordered Sri Annamalai  Swami to kill the cockroaches while he was replacing slabs of the kitchen floor. I Knew that He intervened and saved a squirrel from getting caught by a cat and in the process injured Himself. I still wonder what these two acts of Sri Bhagwan signify for the seekers. I am myself often in dilemma as to whether I should, being a devotee of Sri Bhagwan, kill the ants that ascend to my bed or even whether I should kill the mosquitos that, left to themselves, bite so pinchingly.

  But I am more than cent percent certain that the Grace of Guru is alone the medicine for mental anguish. Worldly solutions at best are either  temporary  or sorrows in disguise which further accentuate the anguish and agony. Regards, Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 03, 2010, 02:17:03 PM



Dear Anil,

There are such "paradoxes" in Bhagavan Ramana's life.  His teachings were either depicting the state of a Brahma Jnani or assuming a role for the sake of seekers. 

Once there was a lunar eclipse which came just around in the evening during Asramam's usual dinner time.  Sarvadikari had arranged the nigh food to be prepared and served well before the commencement of the lunar eclipse.  The Asramam dinner bell
rang around 6.30 PM instead of 7.30 PM.  Sri Bhagavan Ramana looked at the clock and first thought someone had rung the bell
by mistake.  Some devotees told Him about the impending lunar
eclipse.  Bhagavan Ramana said:  Oh, is it so?  Let me take dinner
at the usual time.  He did not go at 6.30 P.M.  Some devotees went for early dinner and some others totally in faith in Bhagavan Ramana
went only with Him, around 7.30 P.M. and ate right during lunar
eclipse.

On another occasion, I think, it was T. K. Sundaresa Iyer, who was
told by some astrologer that he would have pass through six months of tough time, due to some planetary position.  Iyer became afraid.  He came and told Bhagavan Ramana.  Sri Bhagavan
Ramana said:  Do not worry.  Be in the Asramam.  If there is any work go in the bright morning and come back before sunset.  Iyer
followed this advice of Bhagavan strictly.  In fact, on a few occasions, Bhagavan asked others inside the Asramam, whether
Sundaresa had come back from the town.  He was showing anxiety.
Soon six months passed.  And Iyer was relieved.  Bhagavan Ramana
smilingly told him:  Sundaresa!  Now it is all over.  You can go home! 

Now, the second incident what for?  Why?  Could not Bhagavan
stop the evil effects of planets just by a mere gaze at Sundaresa
Iyer.  No.  He wanted to go according to the psychology of Iyer.
He was quite scared about the planets.  So, Bhagavan also played a role, as if He was respecting astrological predictions and took care of Iyer as if He were a father!

What a contrast!

This is  precisely what Sat Darsanam, Verse 27 [Supplement]
says.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 03, 2010, 02:57:16 PM
  Ji, yes, it is well known that Sri Bhagwan, out of compassion for mankind, often descended to the level of His devotees and suggested solution, spiritual or otherwise, from their standpoint. Akshar mana malai is the best example in this aspect for all of us to understand.

  Dear sir, as far as I remember death was predicted for Sri Rangan, the childhood friend of Sri Bhagwan. Ji, yes, He could protect by a mere single look. But He prefered instead to act according to the devotee's sensibility and monitored him till he was out of danger zone.
 
                   Regards,
 
                      Anil

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 04, 2010, 07:49:27 AM
  Sri Bhagwan:

  "Only the Supreme Self,which is ever shining in your Heart as the reality, is the Sadguru. The pure awareness, which is shining as the inward illumination 'I', is His gracious feet. The contact with these (inner holy feet) alone can give you true redemption. Joining the eye of reflected consciousness (chidabhasa), which is your sense of individuality, to those holy feet, which are the real consciousness, is the union  of the feet and the head which is the real significance of the word asi ( the verb in tat tvam asi, that thou art). As these inner holy feet can be held naturally and unceasingly, hereafter, with an inward turned mind, cling to that inner awareness which is your real nature. This alone is the proper way for the removal of bomdage and the attainment of the supreme truth."
And the following statement of Sri Bhagwan:
  " Surrender is to offer fully, in silence, the subsided ego, which is a name-and-form thought, to the 'aham sphurana' ( the effulgence of "I" ), the real holy feet of the gracious Guru."

Thus in the first statement, the union of unbroken 'I' with the  the sense of individuality is the union of the feet and the head and not merely physical prostration. If, by enquiry, first the subject 'I' can be segregated successfully from the predicate in the " I am the body or I am so and so, etc." idea, if the sentient principle can be isolated from the insentient part in the ego, it can hold the inner holy feet naturally and unceasingly.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 04, 2010, 08:26:52 AM
  Similarlly, in the second statement of Sri Bhagwan, He says that the offering fully, in silence, to the aham sphurana the subsided ego is the real union of the feet with the head and not merely the token prostration. Here Sri Bhagwan, by aham sphurana, means the effulgence of "I" or I-I, His famous reference to the first manifestation of the Brahman or Self. But as I have understood sphurana is not uncommon and is palpable and can be grasped by the intellect.  But the feet of the Guru, the effulgence of 'I', can only be touched by offering fully the subsided or the fried ego.

         Thank you.
             Anil

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 04, 2010, 09:32:22 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  Self Inquiry and Self Surrender are the two sides of the same
coin.  In Self Inquiry, one investigates the nature of thoughts, mind
and ego, annihilate them and then attain the bliss of the Self which
is one without a second.  The Self Surrender, the devotee keeps the
ego intact and approaches God with worships, prayers, japa and then finally submits his ego to the God.  The first is Atma Vicharam and then the second is Saranagati.  Atma vicharam is actually vicharam of anatama.  Saranagati is actually surrender of the ego.
Both are same and both require efforts. 

Saint Manikkavachagar says:

Siva is a poor bargainer.  He takes me, the foolish dog. And gives me Him.  Who is cleverer than the two.  I got endless bliss.  What have you got from me?   You have taken my Heart as your Abode,
O Lord of Tiruperundurai, Siva!  O my father you have taken my body as your temple.  What recompense can I pay for you?

{Kovil Tirupadigam, Verse 10.}



Arunachala Siva.           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 04, 2010, 10:09:12 AM
  Dear Sir, Atma Vichara and self-surrender have always been one and the same. Rather, they are both integral and complementary to each other for me.
Sir, thank you so much for citing V-10, Kovil Tirupadigam. This is a very touching verse,

               Regards,
                  Anil

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 04, 2010, 10:53:17 AM



Muruganar says in Guru Vachaka Kovai [Tr. David Godman]:

Verse 470:  God who has this day provided you with food [and other
necessities] will, in perfect way, do so forever.  Hence live by casting all your burdens at his feet, without entertaining thoughts of tomorrow or the future.

Muruganar adds here:  It is impossible for the sadhaka to avoid his
worldly activities.  Even if one lives in a forest, that which is destined to come will inevitably come.  Hence surrender is alone is the medicine that dispels anxieties.  With the firm conviction that grace, which has fed us today, will be with us forever, without ever leaving us, we should completely destroy the thought of tomorrow and attain the peace of mind that transcends time.   

Padamalai Verse 231 says: [Tr. David Godman]:

Banish even the thought "I am a fit instrument for Him" and remain still [Summa Iru].

To remain still even without the thought, that I am his fit instrument or I am his slave.  This is pure egoless mauna.

Questioner:  What is the rationalistic explanation of Draupadi's
sari flowing endlessly?

Bhagavan:  Spiritual incidents cannot be brought under rationalistic explanation.  Draudpadi's surrender is alone important here.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 04, 2010, 04:39:04 PM
   Ji,yes, some time or other, earnest devotees must have felt that major or even minor events in their lives were ordained to happen the way they happened. In retrospect, when I look back and introspect the events in my life, I discern that I had not been the doer, though I may have been merely agent to actions. I hardly had any choice and almost no control ever them although at the time of their happening or occurring I hardly felt so. I surrendered to Sri Bhagwan, partially or completely, He alone knows, in the month of July, 2005 when  surrounded with impossible situations and following the direction of Sri Dr, Murty of Sri Ramanasramam. From then on  I have cosciously tried to accept whatever has come my way.

  Dear Sir, yes, spiritual matter can not be either rationally analysed nor explained, Rationality is within the realm of the mind, how can they be rationally dealt with ?

  Dear Sir, will you kindly explain ' Summa Iru' ? I think that the term means ' Be still'. Thbnk you so much.

               Regards,

                  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 05, 2010, 05:42:05 AM
  Sri Bhagwan :
 
" Thoughts must cease and reason   disappear for 'I-I' to rise up and be felt. Feeling is the prime factor and not reason."

     From Talks, No. 24

  By the above statement Sri Bhagwan certainly doesn't mean that one shoud abandon reason and rationality outright even while dealing with the dualistic world. But, nevertheless, when one aspires for Self knowledge, thoughts must cease and reason disappear. Ultimately one will have to transcend the question of reason and rationality, for reason, rationality as well as the irrationality are matters which are of the realm of the mind. However, one need not worry for by transcending mind and reason one seeks that which is the repository of all reason as well as pure reason.

        Thank you,
            Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 05, 2010, 04:16:15 PM
  Dear Sri Udai Shankar,

  Sri Annamalai Swami said that it happens when we understand and know that mind never existed. It is recognition of what is real and true. Sri Bhagwan said the same thing in Verse no. 17 of Upadesa Saram, ' If one asks, " what is this mind of mine?" it will be found that there is really no such thing as the mind.'
  Oxford dictionary define ' transcendence' as going beyond the limits of human knowledge, experience or reason, especially in a spiritual way.
 Hence, understanding and knowing, by Vichara, that in truth the mind never existed is, in my view, the transcendnce of the mind and reason bringing about recognition of what is real and true.
  Again, in Verse no.18, U. S., Sri Bhagwan says that what is called mind is a bundle of thoughts, all depending on one thought of " I ", the ego. And the so called mind is the ' I '-thought.
  Now what happens to the I-thought or the ego on which is based all other thoughts ? See Verse nos. 19 and 20 of Upadesa Saram:
V-19,
" If one asks himself, " where does this I come from ?" it will vanish. This is atma-vichara.
V-20,
" Where this I vanished and merged in its Source, there appears spontaneously and continuously an I-I. This is the Heart, infinite Supreme Being.
  Therefore, dear Sri Udai Shankar, what I meant was simply that mind or the ego I or the thoughts must vanish and merge in the Source to be Self aware. Thank you so much for your respose.

            Regards,
               Anil
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 05, 2010, 06:06:04 PM



Dear srkudai, Anil,

One interesting question answer in Kaivalya Navanetam:

Disciple:  How then the wise, liberated while alive, exhaust their
prarabdha if their mind has lost itself in Brahman and become one
with It.?   Is it not done only by experiencing its results?  Such
experience would certainly require the mind.  There cannot be any kind of experience in the absence of the mind.  If the mind persists,
how can they said to be liberated?  I am confused on this point.
Be pleased to clear this doubt of mine, for I cannot be liberated
unless all my doubts are cleared away.

Master:  The annihilation of the mind is of two grades.  viz.,
of the mind pattern [lit. Sarupa - in its form] and of the mind
itself [Arupa, the mind which has no form].   The former applies
to Sages liberated while alive - Jivan Muktas. The latter to disembodied sages.  Elimination of rajas and tamas, leaving Sattva alone is the dissolution of the pattern of mind.  [i.e. Suddha Manas would still remain]. O sinless one!  When Sattva vanishes along with the subtle body, the mind itself is said to have perished too.  [Since it is the mind which carries vasanas, along with prana to take a new birth].  In such a state, the Sages will partake of what comes unsolicited.  Not think of the past or future.  Nor exult in joy or lament in sorrow.  Getting over their doership. Becoming non-doers.  Simply witnessing the mental modes and the three states, as Awareness, and can continue in that liberated state
while they pass through prarabdha.  There is no contradiction in it, O my son!

Disciple:  You say that Sage's whole period of activity is also the state of peace.  Does not action denote changing mind, and on such change, does not peace slip away?

Master:  The state of the Sage is like that of a girl who never ceases to thrill with the love of her paramour, even while doing her duties at home.  Their greatness is as Perfect Doers, Perfect
Enjoyers, and Perfect Renouncers.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 05, 2010, 06:45:57 PM
  Dear Sir, although I had earlier went through it in the said book, it was so timely and appropriate in the context of the current discussion that I went through the nice post spell-bound. Thank you so much. Regards, Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 06, 2010, 04:59:16 AM
  Dear Sri Uday Shankar, who pursues the enquiry ? The ego. And the outcome of the enquiry is its dissolution. Therefore, 'i' transcends i and yet remains " I ". With regard to feeling, kindly see as following:
D: Moreever it ( feeling) is not in the head but in the right side of the chest.
Sri Bh: It ought to be so. Because heart is there.
  Talks no. 24
From the above it is obvious that feeling issues forth from depth and certainly more important in Self enquiry than thought and reason. Sri Bhagwan has said that actual intuition is akin to feeling. ( Talks, no. 28) Sri Bhagwan has also said that feeling is of the category of the experience. knowledge implies subject and object where as  experiece is unitary and integral. Regards, Anil

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 06, 2010, 06:05:13 AM
  However, we should not mistake feeling for the True Self .
D : Is there anything like pratyakshbhava in the state of realisation or is realisation merely felt or experienced as the very Being  or Sthiti of the soul ?
Sri Bhagwan : Pratyaksha is very being and it is not feeling, etc.

        Talks, no. 500
          Thank you,
              Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 06, 2010, 07:39:18 AM



All feelings and actions are by the ego.  The self realized is
simply IS.  But he is like a mirror, reflecting the 'feelings' of the
devotees who come to him and describe such feelings.  Evan a
Jnani's description of his pre-bodha state and life, is like a person
telling his dream experience after waking.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 06, 2010, 08:56:42 AM
  Ji, yes, because the Self is our own being, feeling etc. can only be of the realm of the mind only.  I meant to say only that the feeling appeas to be deeper than the ordinary thoughts. In the current issue of the Mountain Path Sri N. A. Mohan Rao under the ' Understgnding Self-enquiry' says that ' feeling may be said to be more intimate to us than thought. We can see this clearly from the fact that, generally speaking, we can change a thought quickly at will, but not so a feeling. While thought way be said to be superficial, being essentially confined to  the mind, feeling would somehow appear to run deeper in our being. Feeling is therefore, said to belong to the category of experience, while thought is that of knowledge.'

  Dear Sir, since feeling plays a far greater role than reason, I feel that Sri Rao's analysis of thought, reason and feeling are helpful in Self- enquiry. Sir, will you kindly throw some more light on feeling aspect of the mind. Thank you. Regards, Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 07, 2010, 03:33:35 AM
  Dear Sri Uday Shankar,

 Yes, how can one end that which is not ? It is the realisation of the non-existence of the body-mind complex.

  Dear Sri Uday Shankar, existential doubt led me to Self-enquiry first and then I came to Infinitely Merciful and Munificent Bhagwan Sri Ramama, seeking Him only and realising His  Grace crystal clear.   Idetification with body-mind gradually weakened. But, no, I am not yet realised. Thank you.

              Regards,
                Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 07, 2010, 06:09:45 AM
  Dear Sri Udai Shankar,

  Sri Bhagwan reavealed that Guru, Self and God are One. I am all the time in  Self-enquiry but I do not seek realisation nor crave for liberation by that. I crave and seek my True Self which is the Munificent Feet of my Guru, which I know  is ' Full of Grace' and 'Occean of Nectar', as the innermost core of my heart. Thank you.

              Regards,
                 Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 07, 2010, 09:32:32 AM
  Question: How can we keep up our sadhana in the middle of all our daily activities ? It is difficult.
 Sri Annamalai Swami : " Without some protection, contact with worldly matters can prove to be sticky and unplesant. But if you oil yourself with remembrance of the Self, you can move smoothly and efficiently through the world, without having any of your busriness affairs stick to you or cause you any trouble or inconveneince. When there is remembrance of the Self, everything in life proceeds smoothly, and there is no attachment to the work being done."
  In reply to a question whether we should be so quiet and uninterested that we allow other people  tn take advantage of our passivity Sri Annamalai Swami says that you can be quiet within and be tough on the outside, if that is the role you have to play in the world.

  I feel that the above teaching of Sri Annamalai Swami be adhered to and practiced by all earnest seekers.

           Thank you,
               Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 07, 2010, 09:58:16 AM
  The last three lines should be read as ' should be adhered to and practiced by all earnest seekers. Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 07, 2010, 04:37:35 PM
  Sri Bhagwan has said that the japa or the chanting is a very effective means for the purification of the mind.

Devotee : I find uttering the japa of 'Om', 'Om', to be very easy. May I continue to do it ? Please guide me.
  Sri Bhagwan : It is good. Aham, 'I' , 'I' can be used. It comes directly from the source, the heart.
Devotee : Is it a mantra to be used as such ?
  Sri Bhagwan : Oh ! You only wanted a mantra. You say 'Om' is easy for you. Why not continue with that ?  Why have you started doubting its efficacy ?
After a few minutes Sri Bhagwan said, " what was indicated is that 'aham' would be more effective as it comes directly from the heart centre."  Thank you. Anil


       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 07, 2010, 04:49:42 PM
  The above conversation has been quoted from ' More Talks With Sri Raman Maharshi ' by Sri N. N. Rajan, no. 132, page-76. Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 07, 2010, 05:01:23 PM



Bhagavan Ramana has said in Who am I?:  "Nan is from Heart.
Even if one meditates "Nan-Nan", it will take you back to the Heart."
He has also clarified that while the question Who am I? is not a
mantra, I-I is a mantra and can be chanted.  But many devotees
even in His time, thought that this was something novel, and so they hesitated. 

Bhagavan Ramana had to clarify this in Day by Day dt. 22.11.1945:

Bhagavan said:  "Talking of all mantras, the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says 'Aham' ["I"] is the first name of God.  The first
letter in Sanskrit is 'A' and the last letter is 'Ha' and 'Aha' thus includes everything from beginning to end.  The word ayam means
that which exists, self shining, and self evident.  Ayam, atma and
Aham all refer to the same thing.

In Talks No. 518, again He has said:

....The Supreme Being is unmanifest and the first sign of manifestation is aham sphurana [the light of 'I'].  The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says:  Aham nama abhavat  - He
became I named.  That is the original name of Reality.

Muruganar has said 'am' is the original name of God, Jehovah,
the Hebrew name of God.

Bhagavan says in Talks No. 106:

You always exist.  The Be-ing is the Self.  'I am' is the name of
God.  Of all the definitions of god, none is so well put as  the
Biblical statement:  I am that I am. in Exodus Chapter 3. .......



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 08, 2010, 06:56:34 AM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, what I felt and wished to say, you said much better with classical elegance. Thank you so much. Regards. Anil.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramanaduli on December 08, 2010, 07:29:08 AM
Dear Subramaniyan ji,


It seems "A" the letter denotes lots of meaning. In english it is the beginning letter as well as in other languages.  In tamil it is called "Uir ezhuthu" means it has got life.
So in christianity they say Amen. Bhagavan also says Aham spurana. All jivas know "he is" i,e, self is always there. We are self. not mind and body or anyother things.


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 08, 2010, 10:13:07 AM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri ramanaduli,

  " The supreme being is unmanifest and the first sign of manifestation is Aham Sphurana ( light of 'I' ). The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says Aham nama abhavat ( He became 'I' named ). That is the original name of the Reality."

        From Talks, no. 518

  And,
  " Maya cannot obscure Sat, but it does obscure Chit and Ananda, making them appear as particulars."

      Talks, no. 100
  Now, Sri N. A. Mohan Rao, in the current issue of the Mountain Path, says that " the concept of spurana allows us to discuss abidance in subject-I and undifferentiated-I in common. IT is advantageous, since, for all practical purposes, we as sadhakas do not have to distinguish between them any time. All that we have to do is merely keep holding our abidance, and it changes from subject-I to undifferentiated-I on itr own. The subsequent abidance in the Self too follows on its own, except that a brief discontinuity will be encountered before this ultimate step."

  Sri Rao has clarified that the intellect is able to cognise the higher manifestations of 'I' in sphurana because Maya cannot obscure Sat ( being or existence ) though it does obscure Chit and Ananda. ( Talks, no. 100 ) Hence the being or the existence aspect is transparent to the intellect, and is realised as sphurana.

  By subject-I and undifferentiated-I, Sri Rao mean the sentient part of the ego and the light of I-I, light of I in the sense of ' the I that is the light, the first manifestation of the Self.

  I feel that this a very brilliant elucidation which may be very helpful in sadhana. Thank you.

            Regards,
                Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 08, 2010, 01:30:04 PM
  The word ' respectively' should be added as the last word in the second paragraph from the last paragraph.  Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 09, 2010, 07:32:09 AM
  Sri Bhagwan says that Atmavichara consists in sifting the Reality from unreality. ( Talk 298 ) He says that after the rise of the I-thought, 'I' is wrongly associated with the body, the mind, the senses, etc. and the true 'I' is lost sight of. Therefore, Atmavichara is the sifting of the pure 'I' from the contaminated 'I'. (Talk 266)

  Sri Bhagwan says that the Self is the Infinite 'I-I'. It is eternal having no origin and no end, while the other 'I' is born and also dies. He asks us to see to whom are the changing thoughts.

Devotee: I am aware of the 'I'. Yet my troubles are not ended.
Sri Bh: This I-thought is not pure. It is contaminated due to association with the body and senses. See to whom the trouble is. It is to the I-thought. Hold it. Then the other thoughts vanish.
Devotee: Yes, how to do it ? That is the whole trouble.
Sri Bh: Think 'I' 'I' 'I' and hold to that one thought to the exclusion of all others.
          Talk 266

            Thank you,
                Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 09, 2010, 09:12:30 AM



Bhagavan:  To enable the sadhaka to steer clear of possible
doubt, I tell him to take up the 'thread' or the clue of 'I'-ness
or 'I-am'-ness and follow it up to its source.  Because, firstly,
it is impossible for anybody to entertain any doubt about his
'I' notion; secondly whatever be the sadhana adopted, the final
goal is the realization  of the source of 'I-am'-ness which is the
primary datum of your experience.  If you, therefore, practice
Atma-Vichara you will reach the Heart, which is the Self.

   - Maharshi's Gospel.

Bhagavan:  Because every kind of sadhana except that of Atma-
Vichara presupposes the retention of the mind as the instrument
for carrying the sadhana, and without the mind, it cannot be practiced.  The ego may take different and subtler forms at the
different stage of one's practice, but is itself never destroyed....

The attempt to destroy the ego or the mind through sadhanas
other than Atma-Vichara, is just like the thief turning out a policeman to catch the thief, that is, himself.  Atma Vichara
alone can reveal the truth that neither the ego nor the mind really exists, and enable one to realize the pure, undifferentiated being of the Self or the Absolute.

-- Maharshi's Gospel.



Arunachala Siva.         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 09, 2010, 10:05:04 AM
  Sri Bhagwan says, " Think 'I' 'I' 'I' and hold on to that single thought to the exclusion of all others."
  Self enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is basically subjective where as meditation is objective.

  "aham-apetakam nija-vibhanakam
  mahad-idam-tapo ramana-vagiyam"

  When the individual 'I' has disappeared and the real 'I-I' has been found, that is excellent tapas. Ramana says this.
       V-30, Upadesa Saram

  'Who am I' question turns the attention of the sadhak back instantly on the I-thought from the 'idam'. Now focussed attention on the I-thought will cause shedding or falling of the predicate or insentient part of the ego or the I-thought leaving sentient suaject alone. The sentient subject 'I' cannot survive without the body. Since it is unstable when isolated, it merges with the Infinite and eternal 'I-I' resulting in the realisation of the 'nija-vibhanakam'. The key is holding on to the 'abidance' as one gets, from the very beginnig, first in the cotaminated I-thought ,in the subjective feeling,  and then in the purer sentient subject 'I' and ultimately till its merger in the true Self. Holding on to the abidance constantly as one progresses, accomplishes the task of its own accord. There is no doubt about that. Besides, it is very important to note that as the conptant abidance leads a sadhal from mere subjective feeling of I-ness to the actual realisation of the true Self, vasanas of their own accord go on diminishing. And when one reaches one's natural state and when the 'Eye of the Self' fall on them ( vasanas ), they all are annihilated.

             Thank you,
                 Anil           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 10, 2010, 04:45:30 AM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, ji, yes, the ego-mind is the culprit-in-chief. Sri Bhagwan termed it as the thief and the tyrant.  Ji, in sadhdnas other than the Atmavichara, this very  ego-mind is employed as the instrument of the practice which is akin to appointing the thief as the policeman to catch that very thief.

  Bhagwan : to a devotee-There are many ways to the 'Lakshyam' (goal). All of them lead to the same, the only goal. But Self enquiry is the best, the safest, simple and also the direct one. Why not choose this particular direct one and pursue the practice instead of going in for indirect methods. Do not worry about the technical terms in the scriptures and confuse yourself.

  Besides the above, Sri Bhagwan has also said that all other sadhanas are merely prepatory to the Self enquiry. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 10, 2010, 04:54:53 AM
  Sri Bhagwan's statement in the above post has been quoted from ' More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' by Sri N. N. Rajan, no. 71, p-46. Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 10, 2010, 08:26:19 AM
  Dear Seekers, besides the other great advantages, the unique greatness of the ' Atmavichara' lies in the truth that the taste of ' nija vibhanakam' or the 'taste of Bliss of the Supreme Self' is available to the seeker, albeit vaguely and faintly, from the very beginning of the sadhana. This taste acts as the unmistakable scent nudging a sadhak to reach the Self tracing that very scent. As the spells of the equibrilium increases through constant 'Atmavichara', then, the Bliss is felt more and more. Thank you. Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 10, 2010, 04:21:24 PM
  Sri Bhagwan has said that Siva is always realised here and now and if one thinks one has not it is wrong. Thinking that one has not realised Siva is the obstacle for realising Siva. Sri Bhagwan asks to give up that thought and realisation is here and now. ( Talk 450, P-441 )

  Sri Bhagwan : Make effort. Just as water is got by boring well, so also you realise the Self by investigation.
  Devotee : Yes. But some find water readily and others with difficulty.
  Sri Bhagwan : But you already see the moisture on the surface. You are hazily aware of the Self. Pursue it. When the effort ceases the Self shines forth.
      Talk 240, P-202

  Yes, everybody is aware, however faintly, of his Self as the awareness of his existence. Holding  it and abiding in it till the haze is evaporated by the blazing ' Light of the Self ' is  what is being asked of us, the devotees and seekers. Thank you. Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 11, 2010, 06:38:52 AM
  " TAT TVAM ASI ". Dear seekers, we along with everything else are that only. We all are aware of the eternal Self. We see many dying of our near and dear ones but still why do we all believe ourselves to be eternal and immortal ? Sri Bhagwan says, ' Because it is the Truth.' Unwillingly and  unknown to ourselves, natural and eternal Truth asserts itself. Sri Bhagwan says that the intermingling of the conscious Self with the insentient body is responsible for this delusion which must end.

  Sri Bhagwan says that so long as there is vibhakti, there must be bhakti. So long as there is viyoga, there must be yoga. So long as there is duality, there must be God and devotee. Sri Bhagwan says that so long as there is vichara, there is duality too. Merging in the Source is the only 'Unity'. Uniting with the God of devotion is the only 'Unity'.

  Therefore, truly, ignorance is due to avichara. Atmavichara must commence. Enquiry must be set afoot to end the utterly mithya duality which has deprived us from the Bliss of our natural state. Thank you. Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 11, 2010, 09:29:19 AM



Dear Anil,

There is an interesting conversation about sat-asat vicharana, in
Talks No. 29:-

Question:  Has the discrimination between Reality and unreality
[sat asat vicharana] the efficacy in itself to lead us to the
realization of the one imperishable?

Bhagavan:  As propounded by all and realized by all true seekers,
fixity in the supreme spirit [Brahmanishta] alone can make us know
and realize it.  It being of us and in us, any amount of discrimination can lead us only one step forward, by making us
renouncers, by goading us to discard the seeming [abhasa] as
transitory and to hold fast to the eternal truth and presence alone.

In Sri Ramana Gita, 1.4. and 1.10, Bhagavan states:-

Question:  Is mukti to be had by mere discrimination between
the real and the unreal or are there other means for the ending of
bondage?

Bhagavan:  Abidance in the Self alone releases one from all bonds.
Discrimination between the real and the unreal leads to non-
attachment.

This is the significance of the Arunachala Deepa Darsanam.
Bhagavan Ramana says in His verse about the significance of
the beacon:

Getting rid of the 'I am the body' idea and merging the mind
into the Heart to realize the Self as Non-dual being and the light of all, is the real significance of darshan of the beacon of light on
Annamalai, the centre of the universe.



Arunachala Siva. 
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 12, 2010, 06:59:22 AM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

         Pranam,

  Thank you for the nice and beutiful post. Sri Bhagwan has said that Atmavichara includes all spiritual sadhanas and practices. Therefore, fixity and abidance in the Self is the culmination of Atmavichara and all sadhanas. However, I wished to say that in the initial stages of Atmavichara or the Self enquiry , Self is hazy and remote. Hence a seeker first isolates the I-thought from the general thoughts of  you, he, it, this, that, etc. ( idam) and hold on and abide in it. This holding and abidance in the I-thought changes to the sentient part of the ego on its own accord. Since this particularised sentient part is unstable in this state, holding and abidance in it changes to undifferentiated ' I-I ' and then ultimately to the Self of its own accord. All a seeker has to do is to keep holding and abiding in the I-thought till the effortless fixity and abidance is realised. For, the greatest advantage of the Atmavichara is the availability of the taste of the Bliss of the Self to a seeker from the very beginning which acts as the unmistakable scent tracing which the he reaches his ultimate goal.

                Regards,
                   Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 12, 2010, 07:57:08 AM
  Dear Sir, Sat-Asat vicharana or the contemplation, on its own, cannot confer realisation and liberation. But it is important because it gives intellectual conviction for the need of Atmavichara. Transitory nature of i, you, he, it, this, that, etc. becomes apparent to the intellect. Then it becomes easy for the intellect to sink in the ego and for the ego to sink in the Supreme Self. After all, this is the ultimate purpose of the intellect and for which it was designed by the Creator. Regards.Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 12, 2010, 09:32:45 AM



Yes.  The purpose of intellect [buddhi] is to transcend the ego
and keep the mind  quiescent in the Self.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 13, 2010, 07:32:50 AM
  Dear Seekers, did we come to Bhagwan Sri Ramana, learnt the technique of Self enquiry and are striving with best of our capacity ceaselessly to discover our forgotten natural state on our own ? What power this false and non-existent ego,or better to say this little ' i ' has ? Can ego take up a practice which ensures its own terminal destruction on its own ? No, it cannot be.

Devotee : It is said that Divine Grace is necessary to attain successful undistracted mind. Is that so ?
 Sri Bhagwan : We are God ( Iswara ). Iswara Drishti ( i. e., seeing ourselves as God ) is itself Divine Grace. So we need Divine Grace to get God's Grace.
 Devotee : There is also Divine Favour as distinct from Divine Grace. Is that so ?
Sri Bhagwan : The thought of God is Divine Favour ! He is by nature Grace. It is by God's Grace that you think of God.
 Devotee : Is not the Master's Grace the result of God's Grace ?
 Sri Bhagwan : Why distinguish between the two ? The Master is the same as God and not different from  him.
       Talks, no. 29, p-35

  Dear devotees, even we think of God by His Grace alone and that is Divine Favour. God is by nature Grace. Therefore, Divine Grace (seeing ourselves as God) is needed to secure God's Grace which is Himself. Truth is God's Grace is the beginning, middle and the end of all spiritual sadhanas. Thank you. Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 13, 2010, 08:15:21 AM



Dear Anil,

Once Devaraja Mudaliar told Bhagavan:  "Swami, however much
we try, we seem to not making much progress.  We want your
Grace."   Bhagavan Ramana said: "Oye, Grace is always there.
But 'you' should not come in between. 

Bhagavan Ramana's grace is ever there.  It is our ego which
refuses to acknowledge it and proceed further.

Bhagavan Ramana says in Atma Vidya Kirtanam:

Verse 5:  When the mind-free of thought turns inward,
Annamalai appears as my own Self,
True,  Grace is needed.  Love is added,
Bliss wells up.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 13, 2010, 08:21:16 AM
  Dear Ddvotees, God's Grace is the beginning, middle and the end of all spiritual sadhanas. But then, should we wait for His Grace to make efforts to regain our forgotten natural state. Are we really happy leading our ego based lives ? We should ask whether we are at peace with ourselves ?
Sri Bhagwan says that Grace is vouchsafed only those who earnestly make efforts. See for yourselves.

  The Maharshi with an ineffable smile which lit up His Holy Face and which was all-pervasive, shining upon the coterie around Him, replied in tones of certainty and with the ring of truth; " Divine Grace is essential for Realisation. It leads one to God-realisation. But such Grace is vouchsafed only to him who is a true devotee or a yogin, who has striven hard and ceaselessly on the path towards freedom."
            Thank you.
                Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 13, 2010, 08:24:43 AM
  Dear Ddvotees, God's Grace is the beginning, middle and the end of all spiritual sadhanas. But then, should we wait for His Grace to make efforts to regain our forgotten natural state. Are we really happy leading our ego based lives ? We should ask whether we are at peace with ourselves ?
Sri Bhagwan says that Grace is vouchsafed only those who earnestly make efforts. See for yourselves.

  The Maharshi with an ineffable smile which lit up His Holy Face and which was all-pervasive, shining upon the coterie around Him, replied in tones of certainty and with the ring of truth; " Divine Grace is essential for Realisation. It leads one to God-realisation. But such Grace is vouchsafed only to him who is a true devotee or a yogin, who has striven hard and ceaselessly on the path towards freedom."
       Talks, no. 29, p-34
            Thank you.
                Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 13, 2010, 08:40:39 AM
  Dear devotees, since I am uploading all my posts from 29 th Nov by my mobile phone reply 282, by posting error, has been duplicated. Kindly ignore the error and any one of them can be read. Thank you. Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 13, 2010, 09:05:24 AM



In Talks No. 13, the following brief conversation is reported:

Question:  Is a Master necessary for realization?

Bhagavan:  The realization is the result of the Master's grace,
more than teachings, lectures, meditation, etc.,  They are only
secondary aids whereas the former is the primary and essential
cause.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 14, 2010, 04:58:16 AM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, Bhagwan Sri Ramama's Grace is ever full, ever present and ever available. Only ' i', ' you ' , etc. should not come in between.
  However, it is because of His Grace alone that devotees and seekers turn to Him, adore Him, surrender to Him, learn ' Atmavichara ' as taught by Him and it is His Grace alone because of which they  make efforts ceaselessly on the path of Jnana.
  Besides, Guru is the Self within as the Inner Guru. It is His Grace that He manifests as the external Guru with a name and form and pushes the mind of His devotees within and as the Inner Guru pulls to the Centre, the Self. Sri Annamalai Swami says that this pushing and pulling is the Guru's Grace. ( p-59, Final Talks )
  Dear Sir, ji, yes, the very nature of the Self  or God is Grace. Therefore, it follows that so long as ' i ', ' you '  etc. are obstacles, His Grace cannot be fully be realised. For full realisation of His Grace the mind or the ego will either have to seek its Source and will have to be fully submerged in the Self or surrender to Him.
  Grace is the primary  essential and efficient cause for realisation. THEREFORE, I SAY THAT GRACE IS OUR GOAL. Regards. Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 14, 2010, 07:22:25 AM
  Dear Devotees and Seekers, a purified and peaceful mind is easily aware of Bhagwan Sri Ramana's Grace. As the sadhana of Self enquiry or Atmavichara progresses, the awareness of His Grace deepens which in turn strengthens the spirit of enquiry. Thus, the Grace and the practice of Atmavichara mutually act and react on each other.
  Sometimes, the mind of even an earnest seeker is weak and fragmented and is not able to focus his entire attention on the Self. He invariably invokes for the Guru's Grace with full ' Faith ' on such occassions and, ' Hail to our exalted Guru ' , He invariably comes to his rescue. Did Sri Bhagwan not come, by space root, to His great devotee and poet Sri Ganapati Muni while he was afflicted because he was not able to achive inwardness due to a disturbed mind ?
 
  Sri Bhagwan : The rise of the urge to seek for the ' I ' is itself an act of divine grace. Once this urge gets hold of you, you are in its clutches. The grip of divine grace never relaxes and finally devours you, just as the prey in a tiger's jaws is never allowed to escape.

 ( Quoted from ' Know Yourself ' by Sri A. R. Natarajan, p-114 ) 

           Thank you,
                Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 14, 2010, 08:23:13 AM



Dear Anil,

Once I was in the Asramam, someone told me with full emotion:
Not all come to Sri Bhagavan.  Even to develop an interest in His
teachings and also to visit the Asramam, one should have done a
lot of merits in the previous birth.  Then someone else intervened
and added:  "We might all have been some lice on the monkeys'
heads, which Bhagavan Ramana had caressed when He was in body!

This statement may appear emotional.  But it is very true.  Without His grace, and only with His grace not intervened by our ego, we
may seek Him as our Guru.

Bhagavan said about Major Chadwick:  "In the previous birth, he
must have been a Hindu in India.  Otherwise, how can he come to
me, fully prepared?"



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 14, 2010, 08:51:48 AM



A correction to my previous post:

About Chadwick, Bhagavan Ramana did not say that he must have
been a Hindu in India, in his previous birth.  He only said: "He
must have been one of our people here."



Arunachala Siva.
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 14, 2010, 04:38:42 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, I am aware that Bhagwan Sri Ramana is Pure Knowledge, can be known only by knowledge and the only 'One' in the whole universe fittest  to know who abides in the innermost recess of hearts of all as the Self and the Universal Guru. And when mind melts with love of Him and reaches there where abides the beloved, subtle Eye of Consciousness opens and He reveals Himself as Pure Knowledge. Thank you so much. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Om Hridayam on December 14, 2010, 05:43:55 PM
When Ramana says "One of our people"... if he -only- meant Hindu it seems to suggest that a Christian, A Muslim, A Jain, a Buddhist, etc. could not reach a high spiritual level.
I sincerely hope that he did not mean only Hindus can reach a high spiritual level. Was there any evidence he said something like this elsewhere?
It does not seem to line up with what I have read of his views. Surely anyone of a high spiritual level would be "one of our people" no matter what the path is?
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: silentgreen on December 14, 2010, 06:03:58 PM
Dear Om Hridayam,

You are correct.
Quote
Surely anyone of a high spiritual level would be "one of our people" no matter what the path is?
Major Chadwick showed a greater earnestness and understanding of spirituality. That is why Bhagavan has said this.

Person of any religion can reach a high spiritual level, be it Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jain, Buddhist etc. Otherwise that religion would not have come into existence itself and lived. Because at least the founder of that religion has reached a high spiritual level, that is why that religion was accepted and continues.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 15, 2010, 06:51:42 AM
  Dear Sri om hridayam,
             Pranam,

  The Life and Teaching of Bhagwan Sri Ramana is a divine manifestation of ' Oneness of all that is ' in which there is nothing different or separate from Him and in which there is no differentiation of time, space, country, religion and even species. What to talk of human beings, He bestowed realisation and liberation to even animals. He is Pure Consciousness pervading all and abiding in the hearts of all jivas (life) as their own Self and Universal Guru.

  Dear Sri om hridayam, implicit in your coming to Bhagwan Sri Ramana is the operation of His Grace on you. Let us enquire our way back to Him from the illusory mental world.

              Thank you,
                  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 15, 2010, 09:30:38 AM
  " your duty is to be and not to be this and that. ' I AM THAT I AM ' Sums up the whole truth. "
          Bhagwan Sri Ramana

  Dear Seekers, our duty is to be and not to be this and that. But except the state of being ourselves, we identify ourselves with this and that. We should enquire on what substratum the drama of this and that is being enacted.
  All is the Self. I am not different from the Self. The state of being myself is to remain still as the Self and not to imagine or think this and that. In the state of perfect stillness there is neither mind nor the body and, therefore, neither this nor that. Sri Bhagwan says that in the state of being merely ourselves there is not even the thought of ' I ' , only being is.

  Now, if I remain as the Self there is no need of the Self enquiry. But the moment I swerve away from the state of being my Self, need arises to ask, " Who am I ? " and return to our Source i. e, the Self. Thank you. Anil
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 15, 2010, 09:33:46 AM


Dear Om Hridayam,

As silentgreen observed and as you have mentioned, all those who
are interested in atma vicharam coupled with ardent devotion are
His people.  He meant only that way.  He did not, to my knowledge,
mentioned anyone else like this. However, when Akhilandamma brought Mastan, a Moslem, for the first time to Bhagavan Ramana, and when Sri Bhagavan gazed at him, Mastan stood in the same place in Virupaksha Cave for more than six hours!  He is the one,
it is said, among very few people, who had a direct Atma Jnanam even at the first visit. Perhaps, Wolter Kiers was another example, I am not sure.

Major Chadwick had even before coming to Sri Bhagavan, had
inquired into the mind somewhat vaguely that there is Atma inside and one should quell the mind to realize  Atma.   He himself had
expressed this in his reminiscences.  

To Mr. Humphreys, Bhagavan Ramana had said that He was his
Guru and to no one He had said that.



Arunachala Siva.  
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Om Hridayam on December 15, 2010, 04:59:28 PM
Thanks everyone for clarifying my question... I was not aware of Bhagavan anywhere saying one path was better than another, quite the opposite.
It has been my direct exprience (After 30+ years of comparative religion study) that every path has a mixture of the noble, heroic and saintly
people as well as the... let's just say not so highly developed people. I find claims that "My religion is better than yours" to be of a very low nature.
Again I hadn't seen anything even close to that from Bhagavan...

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 16, 2010, 04:58:13 AM
  Annamalai Swami : If there is no external light such as Bhagwan to guide you,you have to look within to find the Self. You will not benefit from looking anywhere else, from doing anything else, or from listening to any other voice. Walking round and round a temple , doing rituals to a deity- activities like these will not bring you any nearer to the Self. The pujas, the japas, the rituals-these are just for beginners. Meditation is the syllabus in a higher class. We need not waste our time by indulging in the activities of the infant class again and again. Here, in this class, I ask you to put all your attention, all your interest on realising the final teaching : ' I am not the body or the mind. I am Self. All is the Self. ' This is Bhagwan's final teaching.
      From Final Talks, p-76

  Yes, I am not the body or the mind. I am Self. If I have drifted and moved to mind and body which I am not, I must enquire, " who am I ? Whence am I ? " and return back to Self. We at the same time not forget that there is no other purpose of this temporal life. Seeking our Self and being the Self is the only purpose. Everything else is secondary and superimposed on the substratum of the only truth i. e. the Self. Thank you. Anil

     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 17, 2010, 06:37:00 AM
  Dear Devotees and Seekers, a rope is mistaken to be a snake, a post is mistaken to be a thief, in the feeble light. Such confusion cannot arise in the broad day light. But in the dim light, threat of the snake or the thief appears to be real. Investigation is launched. Enquiry is afoot. The snake or the thief turns out to be a rope or a thief. We see before us a rope or a post after the enquiry. What happened to the snake or the thief ? Where did the snake or the thif go away ? Nothing happened. They did not go any where. Simply there is a realisation, there is a knowing, that there never was a snake or a thief. They never existed in the first place. Snake was superimposed on the substratum of the rope. Thief was superimposed on the substratum of the post. Likewise, we, due to ignorance, imagine or think ourselves to be limited individuality bearing false names and forms. Guru's Grace makes us see the error of such beliefs. Then Self enquiry is afoot. After the conclusion of the enquiry, we realise our true identity as the Self. What happened to the limited ieentity, the name and the form, to the ego ' I ' ? Nothing happened to it. There is the realisation, there is a knowing that this ego ' I ' never existed, never had any reality. That this ego ' I ' was erroneously foisted and superimposed on the substratum of the Self just like the snake or the thief superimposed on the rope or the post. Thank you. Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 17, 2010, 09:31:17 AM



Once one visitor asked Bhagavan Ramana:  "Should I not be
patriotic?"  [It was the time of freedom movement in India].
Sri Bhagavan said:  "You need not be this and that.  You be
as you are."

Sri Bhagavan's path of Jnana Vicharam transcended
all  religions and faiths.  He wanted a Christian to be a good
Christian and a Moslem to be a good Moslem and a Hindu to
be a good Hindu and do Atma Vicharam.  That is why,  His Path
appealed to everyone beyond these divisions.  He never even
advised people to wear ochre robes which are only external symbols
for ascetism.  He insisted only internal renunciation.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Om Hridayam on December 17, 2010, 02:24:04 PM
One recent thing that disturbed me was looking at the official Ramana site and seeing a picture of Bramin boys in class.. As far as I could tell from the picture they were only Bramins.
I thought Ramana was opposed to those separations... are people of any caste invited to class or are the castes separated at the ashram these days?
(I am a Westerner so the caste system is difficult for me to understand... where I went to school everyone of every creed, race, gender were all mixed together... no one was above
anyone else... so that is what seems natural and "just" to me.)
I realize the caste system is ancient and runs deep in India, but being that is was Ramana's ashram and something that (from what I've read) he spoke out against and equality was
very important to him I was wondering if I understood the picture correctly.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: silentgreen on December 17, 2010, 03:32:14 PM
Dear Om Hridayam,

In Ramana Ashram, Vedic chantings are held in the evening (late afternoon). The Brahmin boys chant the Vedas and other mantras in Sanskrit. There are no caste discriminations. The chanting creates a divine atmosphere. Many people also join the chantings. Many circumbulate across the samadhi of Bhagavan during the chanting (and also other times).
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 17, 2010, 03:37:21 PM


Dear Om Hridayam,

In the Asramam today there is no caste distinctions at all in
the dining hall or in Samadhi Hall, where pujas and evening
parayana takes or even in Old Hall, where individuals do silent
meditation.  A man of one caste can sit along with a man of
other caste in all these places.  All are given the same vegetarian
food and if some Westerner wants less spicy food, he is given that
also.

What you have perhaps, seen is the photo of a Vedic Patasala.
Vedas are taught to Brahmin boys, with capable teachers.  This
Veda classes have to be attended for about 8 years right from
say 6th year of a boy.  This traditional teaching is going on.
Right from ancient days, Vedas are taught only to brahmins.
They do not attend to schools of normal categories.  These boys
after learning, spend their life either in teaching Vedas in turn
or just doing rituals as per the commandment of Vedas.  They
do not get income excepting some small fees they collect from
householders for doing such pujas.  It is not an easy life - be it
learning Vedas or living a Vedic life.  One should know Sanskrit
literature, grammar and poetics, should have a good voice to pronounce mantras and on top of all this, one should learn to live
a very very simple life, almost in chill penury.  Because in modern
times income from conducting pujas for householders by these
Vedic brahmins is almost nothing.  99.99% brahmin boys go for
computer classes and medicine today.  So this is a rare choice by a
few boys and this is conducted accordingly.  In the Asramam,
they are given sattvic food, minimum clothing and only milk everyday, no coffee or tea.  They spend about 6 to 8 hours in reading and chanting Vedas.

If still someone other than a brahmin wants to learn Vedas he should have a private teacher and learn.  Still he cannot do pujas for others.  The great German Max Mueller learnt Sanskrit and Vedas this way.  He spent 40 years of his life in doing this and ultimately translated Rg Veda in German.  Are you game for this,
at least?

       

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 17, 2010, 03:40:24 PM



As silentgreen has observed, you might have seen these boys
chanting Vedas during abulations to Sri Ramaneswara Maha Lingam,
the Siva lingam on the Samadhi.  This is done regularly.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Om Hridayam on December 17, 2010, 03:51:48 PM
Thanks again for those who took the time to explain.
It may help to understand that I have studied comparative religions for 30+ years and have been unfortunate enough
to have involved myself with a couple "spiritual" organizations that changed things around after the leader died,
(Creating a different atmosphere than the legacy of the teacher should have been...)
so i am just checking... So far nothing is amiss that I can see in how Ramana's teaching is being carried on.
Please don't be offended at my questions.

As for would I be "game for that"? I am a married householder with responsibilities to my wife, but
I guarantee you that in my heart I long to live in a spiritual and austere environment. I have little interest in the world
and have often dreamed of being a monk with a vow of silence. I have no delusions about that kind of life being "easy" in the materialistic sense,
but I have responsibilities that I must see through. I feel it would be a grave error and a kind of violence to abandon my wife
to fend for herself so that I could live that kind of life.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 17, 2010, 04:10:11 PM



Dear Om Hridayam,

I was just saying that only to highlight how tough such a life is.
It is like being a choir boy in church or reading Bible in a Lutheran
Church, singing and reading, day in and day out.  Simple life, simple living and great spiritual progress, if one has got commitment towards the goal.

At least today Vedas are available in Sanskrit books.  In the ancient
days it was chanted by the teacher and the disciples should learn.
No written material.  Simple astute listening is important.  This is called Sravanam.  Then one should memorize it from what he heard.
It is Mananam.  Then one should contemplate the mantras, its purport and meaning.  Nididhyasanam.



Arunachala Siva. 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 17, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
  Dear Sri om hridayam,

  Bhagwan Sri Ramana's mission in the world was to give the path of ' Atmavichara ' or the Self-enquiry and help earnest seekers by giving 'darshan' and clarifying their doubts. To my knowledge He never interfered with the existing order of things in the society. After all who sees distinctions in the society ? The ego which does not exist. Whenever such questions were raised, Sri Bhagwan always turned the attention of the questioner to himself who sees distinctions in the society. He asked to enquire and seek the source of the ego 'I'  first.

An Arya Samajist : Should there be distinction of castes ?
Sri Bhagwan : Who is it that sees such distinctions ? Find it out.
   Talks, no. 507

            Thank you
                Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 18, 2010, 06:16:03 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, with reference to your post ( reply 298 ), this to state that Sri Bhagwan's Path of Jnana Vicharam is truly the Universal Religion of the Spirit, the Pure Knowledge which transcended all religions, faiths, all creeds, all dogmas, all other paths....

  Yes Sir, renouncing external symbols and retaining the one who renounces, the renouncer, is like cutting merely the branches and leaving intact the roots. Sri Bhagwan says in Self Enquiry that Sannyasa is only renunciation of  the 'I'-thought and not the rejection of external objects. Regards. Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 18, 2010, 09:56:51 AM
  " Oh Arunachala ! In Thee the picture of the universe is formed, abides and is dissolved. In this enigma rests the miracle of Truth. Thou are the Inner Self who dancest in the hearts as ' I '. Heart is thy name Oh Lord ! "
   Verse-2, The Five Gems On Sri Arunachala

Devotee : If the jiva is by nature identical with the Self, what is it that prevents the jiva from realising its true nature ?
Sri Bhagwan : It is forgetfulness of the jiva's true nature ; this is known as the power of veiling.
Devotee : If it is true that the jiva has forgotten itself, how does the ' I '-experience arise for all ?
Sri Bhagwan : The veil does not completely hide the jiva, it only hides the Self- nature of ' I ' and projects the ' I am the body ' notion ; but it does not hide the Self's existence which is ' I ', and which is real and eternal.
    From Self-Enquiry

  I consier the above cited song and the quote from the Self-Enquiry to be of paramount importance for sadhana.
  ' I am the body ' idea does not completely hide the Self's existence which is the basic and undifferentiated ' I ' and which is real and eternal. It hides the Self nature of ' I ' or it hides the specific truth that the jiva is the Supreme Self. Sri Bhagwan says that the maya in the form of ignorance ' I am the body ' notion does not obscures the Sat or the Being aspect but it  obscures the Chit and Ananda aspects of the Brahman or the Self. Sat or the being aspect is palpable and faintly trdnsparent to the intellect in the ego  ' I ' or the ' I am the body ' notion which, witha little sadhana, is within the experience of one and all. It is Merciful Lord Sri Arunachala Ramana's Grace that the existence aspect of the Self is not completely covered or obscured. Partially transparent aspect of the Self acts as the unmistakable scent grasping, holding, and tracing which a seeker reaches the Supreme Truth, i.e. his Source i.e. the Self. Otherwise, it would have been well-nigh impossible to be Self-aware, to reach the Supremd Truth.

    Thank you,
        Anil         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 18, 2010, 04:56:51 PM



Dear Anil,

All japas and pujas are done retaining the ego.  It is at best
karma phala tyagam.  But Bhagavan Ramana said ahankara
tyagam as the central teaching.

One Saiva Siddhanti came to the Asramam.  He was going round
and found that there were no pujas etc.,  People simply sit in front
of Sri Bhagavan and occasionally someone asks questions.  And
Bhagavan answers.  Seeing this the Siddhanti asked:  What is your sampradayam [daily rituals]?  Sri Bhagavan did not answer him.
Someone intervened and said: Here to follow no sampradayam
is our sampradayam.  Then the Siddhanti said:  In our Maths,
we chant mantas  thousands of times.  And at night, before going to bed, we submit everything to our Guru. 

Sri Bhagavan then said:  Oh, is it so?  It is like keeping the capital and giving the interest to the Guru. Many devotees did not understand.  Muruganar entered the Hall.  Sri Bhagavan said:
"Oye!  Hear this, in their Maths, they chant mantras thousands of times on a day and then hand over the phalam to Guru.  It is like keeping the capital and giving interest to the Guru."

Muruganar became red in his face and then said: "Bhagavan!  Their Guru is much better.  He only takes the interest and allow them to retain the capital.  Here, the capital itself is swallowed.  Capital here means Ego. Sri Bhagavan is the consumer of ego.  Then
where is the opportunity to do pujas and mantra japas?

Everyone laughed.



Arunachala Siva.           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 19, 2010, 06:43:57 AM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

  Ah !  This is the picturesque description of the sublime ambience that surrounded Sri Bhagwan.

  Dear Sir, if one comes to  Sri Bhagwan, He is that blazing 'Fire Of Knowledge' in which are consumed both interest as well as the capital.

  Thank you so much for a very nice and beautiful post.

        Regards,
           Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 19, 2010, 07:54:27 AM
  Dear Devotees and Seekers,

  Sing the Glory of Sri Bhagwan, Lord Shiva Incarnate ! The very embodiment of Existence, Consciousness and Bliss ! The only Beacon of Hope for the seekers of Truth !
  Following is the moving account of the divine expression of the Universal unattached Love that is Sri Bhagwan. Savour your tears ! Savour your joys !

  " Once Laksmi came into the hall. She was pregnant at that time. It was after lunch time when Bhagwan was reading the newspapers. Laksmi came near and started licking the papers. Bhagwan looked up and said, ' Wait a little, Laksmi.' But Laksmi went on licking. Bhagwan laid his paper aside, put his hands behind Laksmi,s horns and his head against hers. Like this they stayed for quite a long time. I stood nearby looking at the wonderful scene. After some ten minutes or so, Bhagwan turned to me and said : ' Do you know what Laksmi is doing ? She is in Samadhi.' I looked at her and tears were flowing in streams down her broad cheeks. Her breathing had stopped and her eyes were fixed on Bhagwan. After some time Bhagwan changed his position and asked : ' Laksmi, how do you feel now ?' Laksmi moved backward, as if reluctant to turn her tail towards Bhagwan, walked round the Hall and went out. "
  Mountain Path, July-September 2010

  Adoring and worshipping the Lotus Feet of Sri Bhagwan, the very Embodiment of the Supreme Brahman, the Satchitananda

     Thank you,
         Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 19, 2010, 08:02:36 AM



Dear Anil,

That is a nice remark about Cow Lakshmi.  Sri Bhagavan gave
'diksha' by looking, thinking or remembering about a devotee, or
by touching.  He Himself says this in Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana
Maalai, Verse 63.

Looking at me, thinking of me and touching me, you have to make
me fit, ripen me!  Then be my Master, govern me, O Arunachala!

Cow Lakshmi had all these three dikshas from Sri Bhagavan.

The devotees were very rarely touched by Sri Bhagavan.  Perhaps,
Annamalai Swami and a few others are exception.  But looking,
gazing intently, He has done in case of many devotees.  Thinking
or remembering devotees, He must have done for almost all devotees.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 19, 2010, 06:31:44 PM
  Dear Sir, regarding initiation, this is to say that the 'Pure Light' of Sri Bhagwan is all pervading. There is not a single point in the whole universe which is not pervaded by Sri Bhagwan. Even today after His 'Mahanirvana' , He is always looking for His preys using His Blissful Initiation-conferring on him the ability to discriminate between the Real and the unreal. Whose ego is going to be food for Him, as the great poet Sri Muruganar said, He alone knows. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 20, 2010, 07:16:44 AM
  Dear Devotees and Seekers, I see my dead relatives in my dreams, though they may have been dead sevaral years before. Where from do they come in my dreams ? Obviously, creator is in the creature. We dream that we are travelling in an alien country, confronting hostile creatures, hanging down a cliff, fierce snakes chasing me, crying helplessly for help etc. Now, when we wake up from the dream, all dream creatures and dream objects disappear, all of them simply vanish, leaving me, the single individual behind, all alone. Where do they all go away ? Where are they all ? They can only be in myself. There is a realisation, there is a knowing, that it was mere dream and that all those dream persons, objects and events were the creation of my own mind. Sri Bhagwan says that the dream is analogus to and holds good for Realisation also. When one become Self-aware, instantly the whole world along with the ego, the dreamer in the waking state  disappear, simply evaporate, leaving behind the Self, Satchidananda, all Alone. Where do all these go away ? No where. There is a realistion, there is a knowing that it was all a dream and that they are not real. Thanl you. Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 20, 2010, 07:36:18 AM
  Dear devotees and seekers, therefore, in essence, this all important looking waking state is, in truth, not different from the dream state. When dream characters and events are wiped out, residue is the sleeping  individual, the dreamer. Sri Bhagwan says that when the ego is merged with the Self, all are wiped out, the residual Peace is ' I '. Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 20, 2010, 08:56:54 AM



Dear Anil,

As you have correctly said that Sri Bhagavan's Presence is even today felt in the Asramam, particularly in Samadhi Hall and also in Old Hall.  He has said before leaving His body:  "Where can I go?  I am here!" 

After Sri Bhagavan's Maha Nirvana, many people, who considered Him as body, left Tiruvannamalai and went to other kshetras or to their native places.  In about a year or so, they all felt that they
have lost their peace and mind has jumped out and creating a greater nuisance.  Around 1950-51, one by one came.  Then they
started feeling the Presence much more vigorously in the Asramam.  In fact, they felt that His body was a hindrance earlier, and now they felt that His Presence as all pervading Space is felt much more poignantly.  Ramana Nagar, where some close devotees were staying had become empty and one by one the houses got
filled up.  Pujas, evening parayana and staying in meditation in the Old Hall brought back the peace that they had lost.  Only Kunju
Swami, Annamalai Swami, Major Chadwick and Arthur Osborne family had continued to live there steadfastly.  Now others also had followed suit.     

Today apart from people who are staying in T'malai and permanent residents, there are at least 50 to 100 visitors, new devotees, are coming everyday.  During Jayanti, Maha Nirvana Day and Mahadeepam day, the crowds are in thousands.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramanaduli on December 20, 2010, 09:39:09 AM
Dear sir,

The dreamer is the same person who woke up from the dream in next day. And the same person is telling about his dream. So all these persons are one.
Is it not. Jnanis say, even the wakeful state also is a dream and helps us to wake up during the wakeful time. That what everyone cannot do it.


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 20, 2010, 01:12:29 PM



Dear Ramanaduli,

Sri Bhagavan says in Who am I?:  Excepting the fact that the dream
state is short and wakeful state is long, there is no difference.
What is happening in one's dream is as real as what is happening
in wakeful state.  Even a person who has had dreams and then
nicely slept, can say about these states only in wakeful state:
"I had such and such dream; I had slept nicely."  He even said that
the hunger one suffers in the dream has to be quenched only by eating in the dream." 

If a man has taken sumptuous food and goes to sleep, he can dream of hunger.  A millionaire can dream as if he is begging on the streets.  So we, ordinary people know that dream is unreal.
But is real during that state.  For a Jnani even the wakeful state
is a dream, excepting it is a long dream.  The Jnani is in a state of turiya beyond the three, i.e wakeful, dream and deep sleep states.  His state is called ati-jagrat, or sublime wakefulness.  He is simply witnessing all the three states.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 20, 2010, 04:29:50 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, ji, yes, His Presence has certainly not vitiated after His Mahanirvana but on the contrary, it has become more palpable. Where He will go ? Where He is not that He will go there. He is here, there and everywhere ! We, all the  devotees of Sri Bhagwan experiece daily the truth of this last  Statement of Sri Bhagwan. When one merely sits in the Samadhi Hall, one feels that He is watching you, observing you intently. Thank you so much sir. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 21, 2010, 06:59:50 AM
  Dear Sri ramanaduli,

   Sri Bhagwan has revealed that the waking state is also a long drawn out dream. He says that we admit the existence of the world in our waking and  the dream states because they are mental creations. They are the product of the mind. It should be noted that the dreamer or the sleeper and the subject of the dream are not necessarily the same individual. Once I dreamt that whenever I raise my hand, snakes eject out of  one of my palms. In a dream, I actually saw them oozing out. And this appeared quite natural to me in that dream. Nothing extraordinary, not something to be taken note of. In deep sleep the mind is  quiescent or merged in the nescience and the world is in the seed form. On waking  the world is manifested with the rise of the ego-mind. Sri Bhagwan says that when there is no mind (impure one) , as in deep sleep, there is no individual.
  We ourselves create a world in the dream and the waking state is only a long dream. Since there is no break, no discontinuity in our existence during waking, sleeping and dreaming states, it  follows that there must be a seer of the three states. It cannot be the ego-mind because it is absent during the deep sleep, but still on waking we say that we slept well. Who experienced it ? The experiencer of the deep sleep state  now identifies with the 'I' in the speaker of the waking state. But this identification is erroneous. The experiencer 'I' of the sleep state is the Self. As Sri Bhagwan said, there no two' Is'.
  From the above discussion it follows that waking state is not different from the dream state except in duration and that our natural state or our true Self, in truth, is what underlies the three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping, i.e. the fourth state, the Turiya.

       Thank you,
           Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 21, 2010, 09:15:06 AM



Dear Anil, Ramanaduli,

Sri Bhagavan is always gazing us with abundant grace.  But we
are not ready to take His Grace and progress in the path of liberation.  He is always seeing us with Eye of Jnana.  He is seeing our Heart. He is prepared for ever to fill the Heart with Jnana.  But we are not seeing Him.  We are seeing with our fleshy eyes the world and its activities.   This is egoism.

Saint Manikkavachagar says:  I shall go to Him. I may not know
the Sivapuram.  The land of liberation.  Where it is?  And  how to go?  But like a blind cow that goes behind the other cows, merely
by crying May...May, I shall go to the Sivapuram by going behind other cows.  This is metaphor for Satsangh.  If we cannot understand the nature of guru, go with others who understand the greatness of guru.  We shall also reach Guru though we are blind,
without the Eye of Jnana.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 21, 2010, 02:27:16 PM
  Dear Sir, in Verse Four, Ulladu Narpadu, Sri Bhagwan says that ' if one is a form, the world and God will also be so. If one is not a form, who can see their forms and how ? Can what is seen be of a different nature to the eye ? Self, the eye, is the limitless eye. ' Thus, the object seen is of the same nature as the eye with which it is seen. With fleshy eye which has a form, only forms can be seen. Sri Bhagwan while explaining the above Verse says that  the real Eye is the formless, pure and infinite Self, the Consciousness, the Reality, He does not see forms. Regards. Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 21, 2010, 04:57:38 PM


Verse 4 of Sad Darsnam or ULLadu Narpadu, as you have correctly
pointed out speaks about the worship with forms. 

If the Self has form, the world and God likewise have form.  If the
Self is without form, by whom and how can form of world and God
be seen?  Without the eye, can there be sight or spectacle?  The
Self, the Real Eye is infinite.

Why all of us tend to see the world and god in forms.  It is because
of the body, which has got a form.  The body here includes the five
sheaths also.  This five sheaths, inter-alia include the mind and intellect.  It is because of this mind and intellect, and with the body, we tend to see the god and the world as forms.  So there can
be no world other than without mind.  This is described in Verse 5
of ULLadu Narpadu.

Sri Bhagavan comes step by step.  In Verse 3, He says instead of arguing that the world is true and world is only appearance, leaving the world and knowing the Self is important.  Again, in Verse 4, He
says the world and god are seen as in forms because our body has got a form.  In Verse 5, He says that the body includes five sheaths and this includes mind and intellect.  So, it is the mind and intellect imagine a form for world and god.  In Verse 6, He says
that the world is made up of the five kinds of sense perceptions
and these sense perceptions are due to our five senses, and these five senses are operated with the mind.  So, the mind is the prime subject which one should deal with.  In Verse 7, He says the mind and the world rise together and they fade together in sleep.  In deep sleep, there is neither mind nor world. But still, one is aware of his own Self with the experience of I-am.  This I-amness is reality.  Reality is the formless and nameless absolute.  Knowing this is true knowledge.



Arunachala Siva.   

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 22, 2010, 07:02:15 AM
  Dear Sir, thank you so much for a very nice and beutiful post.  Pointed ellaboration of ' Atma Vidya ' in Upadasa Saram and Ulladu Narpadu is invaluable to the seekers of Truth and ,therefore, importance of these two great scriptures can never be overstated. Ji, yes, in these two great works, Sri Bhagwan reveals and deals 'Tattva Jnana' step by step, very systematically indeed, as also you have done in your post. Your writing, like the works of the other great devotees of Sri Bhagwan, has been great source of inspiration to the seekers of Truth. Dear sir, will you kindly deal with the rest of verses of Ulladu Narpadu the way you have done from Verse 3 to Verse 7 ? It will be very beneficial for some of us. For instance, at present I am far away from my home for more than 20 days now and I do not have any version of either Upadesa Saram or Ulladu Narpadu with me. And I feel forlorn without them. But at present I cannot help it for a few more days.
  Dear sir, in your post you have stated ' in deep sleep, there is neither mind nor the body. But still, one is aware of his own Self with the experience of I-am. This I-amness is the reality'. Sir, I wish to know whether this great truth also is part of the meaning of the Verse 7 of Ulladu Narpadu ? Regards. Anil   
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 22, 2010, 09:16:25 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  In Verse 7, Sri Bhagavan says that the world and the worldly
knowledge are both rising and curling up when the I rises.  The
one which is the substratum for the world and worldly knowledge
[basically the "I" thought] and which is eternal is the Poornam
{punram in Tamizh} is the Self or Atma within.

Sri Bhagavan elaborates it in further verses and says in Verse 27,
that 'Where the I-thought does not rise, that is the NaturalState in which we are all and this permanent disappearance of I-thought
or ego is called Thannizhappu, i.e egoless state.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 22, 2010, 09:28:19 AM
  Dear Devotees and Seekers of Truth,

  when a devotee said that there must be a scientific approach to the practice for Atma Vidya, Maha Guru Bhagwan Sri Ramana replied that eschewing unreality is scientific.
  The only permanent Reality is that which is our own true Self. I say I am writing, I am working, I am away from my home , etc. All these are thoughts. The screen or the basis for all these thoughts are ' I-am '. Sri Bhagwan says that   ' I am ' can be hyphenated in all the above mentioned thoughts such as ' I am working' etc. Thus I-AM. ' I am ' is the only abiding and fundamental Reality. God said to Moses, " I AM THAT I AM. Be still and know that I am God."
  Therefore, "I-AM" IS GOD. So " I-AM " said to Moses that ' I-AM ' is GOD.
 Sri Bhagwan says that I know that I am. I cannot deny my existence at any point of time, be it sleep, dream or the waking states. I must be there to even deny my existence. This can be understood by stilling the mind only.

         Thank you,
             Anil 
     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 23, 2010, 06:22:04 AM
  BHAGWAN ENTHA DONGADU
 ( WHAT A THIEF IS BHAGWAN ? )   

 Sri N.N. Rajan recorded in his diary dtd: 9. 11. 43 that a girl from Andhra wrote a fine letter to Sri Bhagwan in which the last sentence was, ' Bhagwan entha dongadu ? ' ( What a thief is Bhagwan ? ) The English translation of the letter appeared in the ' Sunday Times '. Sri Bhagwan appreciated this letter greatly.

  Sri N. N. Rajan records in his note the same day as following:
 " Bhagwan is a thief because He steals our hearts. In Rudram ( a Sanskrit prayer ), Siva is referred to as the king of thieves since He steals the hearts of His devotees. "

  INDEED, BHAGWAN SRI RAMANA IS THE KING OF THIEVES.

  Thank You,
      Anil
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 23, 2010, 07:19:06 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes. Siva and Sri Bhagavan are thieves.  Krishna is also a thief.
The saint-poets take pleasure in calling Siva/Krishna/Guru as
thief, because they steal the hearts of the devotees.  Sri Bhagavan
also stole the ego of the devotees!  Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar
says in his very first verse, that god who wears a ear ring and a ear stud has stolen my heart.  He is a thief.  Of course, Sri Rudram
says Siva is the king of thieves.  Saint Manikkavachagar says that
in the hearts of truthful devotees, Siva remains as a thief in the form of Truth Itself.

Sri Sundaramurty Swamigal has used the word mad-person to
describe Siva.  He is mad, because, he is wearing cool crescent
moon on his head, cool waters of Ganga on his head, cold bodied
snake on the chest, he is staying chill Himalayas,  and  more importantly he is mad after his devotees and shall do anything for them, as he did in the case of the saint-poet.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 23, 2010, 08:24:51 AM
  Dear Sir, you have very touchinly dwelt upon ' the thief aspect of the Great Lord Shiva and Sri Bhagwan.' I have a wish to go through the sublime verses of the Saint Sri Manikkavachagar. But I do not know Tamil. Kindly guide me. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 23, 2010, 09:22:46 AM



Dear Anil,

I said in some other post, that Sri Bhagavan is sishya-vith-abahara,
He steals the falsity [the false ego] of the devotees. 

In Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai, Verse 103, Sri Bhagavan
tells about Arunachala:

"Intending to trap me, you like a spider spread your web of grace,
you imprisoned me and devoured me, O Arunachala!"

Arunachala is Sri Bhagavan. Sri Bhagavan is also doing the
same trapping for devouring us, like a spider.



Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 23, 2010, 09:43:44 AM
  I recently had a discussion with a niece of mine who was awarded PhD in Micro Biology by a prestigious American University. To my surprise and wonder, she truly believed that  the mind and the life itself are the product of the physical brain. Well, this implied that there is an element of atomocity in Life. I feel that there is need for them to understand and realise that in deep sleep when there is neither the mind nor
' i ' to perceive the world. Still she exists and that there is no break in her existence.  And that she can exist even when there is no ego-mind. Who is she?
  Some modern physicist also believe that the universe can be measured.
  Sri Bhagwan says that " the mind is like akasa ( ether ). Just as there are the objects in the akasa, so there are thoughts in the mind. ( This has been explined beutifully by Sri Uday Shankar in one of his posts on this Forum.) The akasa  is the counterpart of the mind and objects are of thought. One cannot hope to measure the universe and study the phenomena. It is impossible. For the objects are mental creations. To measure them is similar to trying to stamp with one's foot on the head of the shadow cast by oneself. The farther one moves the farther the shadow does also. So one cannot plant one's foot on the head of the shadow." ( Talks, no. 485, p-480 )  So, one cannot hope to unravel the mystery  that is the 'Life' by the study of data collected with the help of the sense perception. Thank you. Anil 
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 23, 2010, 01:33:01 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, what a pity ! Sri Bhagwan has to steal the falsity (the false ego ) of his devotees so that He may prepare them to merely be and experience the Bliss of their own Self. What a pity ! Yet, we are reluctant to part with the falsity ! Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 23, 2010, 04:05:54 PM
  How fantastic ! Many people tenaciously belive that consciousness is the product of the physical brain ! For them mental consciousness is the only consciousness ! There is nothing more to it than that for them. Brain cells contain all. And of course, physical sciences will be able to unravel the mystery of life besides the other unsolved puzzles sooner than  later ! Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 24, 2010, 06:14:04 AM
  Dear Devotees and Seekers, Sri Bhagwan says that a person's search for happiness is, in fact, an unconscious search for the very Self. This implies that the idea of happiness is innately ingrgined in all of us. Otherwise, why  would we be seeking happiness all the time ? Because the idea is innate. Why we all wish to be perfect ? Because, in truth, we are perfection ' Absolute ' ourselves. We are 'BLISS SUPREME' ourselves. Dear devotees, our 'Core' itself comprises of all that. This is why Greek philosopher Plato's ' Idea of Goodness' remains unsolved to this day as a problem of philosophy.
  Shakespeare said that all world is a stage and men and women are merely players. Yes,  the stage, men and women, the play itself as well as the 'LIGHT' by which they all are being illumined are He-BHAGWAN SRI RAMANA ARUNACHALA only. Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 24, 2010, 07:49:54 AM



Dear Anil,

There is a beautiful passage in Upanishad.  I think, it is between
Yajnavalkya and Gargi in Janaka's court. 

What is big?

Earth is big.

But earth [ say, a shovel of clay or sand], if thrown, shall fall
on the floor but shall not move.

Hence Water is bigger.

But Water, if a bucket of water, is thrown down, it spreads on
all four sides.

Yes. The Fire is bigger.

Yes. Fire, can spread not only on four sides but also upwards.

But, Air is still bigger.

Yes. Air, shall spread or quench the fire. It can spread on all
four directions, but also upwards and downwards, fire cannot
rise downwards.

But Space is still bigger.

Yes. Space can contain the air.  Air cannot spread through all
the Space.

Where is this Space, Gargi?

Gargi does not answer.

Yajnavalkya says: Space is in your mind. Your mind can visualize
the entire space.   But this mind also quells in the Self during
sleep.  Hence the Self is the biggest.

One who knows the Self, knows everything.

Sri Bhagavan says in ULLadu Narpadu, Verse 31:

For him who is the Bliss of the Self, arising from extinction of
the ego, what is there to do?  He knows nothing other than
this Self.  How to conceive the nature of his state?

Sri Bhagavan also says the same thing in Verse 11 of ULLadu Narpadu.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramanaduli on December 24, 2010, 08:35:28 AM
Shiva and Krishna both are CHITH CHOR. Meera sings in her so many bhajans. Krishna stole her ego so she became brahma jnani.
Bhagavan also wants to steal our ego but our ego never allows to enter Him. We built very strong walls around us.


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 24, 2010, 09:25:58 AM



Dear Ramanaduli,

Yes.  Sri Bhagavan says in Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai,
Verses 11 and 12:-

11.  When those robbers, the five senses, enter my mind, are You
not present there at home to keep them out?

When the owner is not at home and the house lies vacant, thieves
break in and steal.  But this owner, the Self, is ever present and
cannot leave the house.  And it is ever awake as Awareness and
cannot sleep either.  Hence it is present and aware, and only
pretends to be absent or asleep.  This idea is made clear in the next verse, No. 12.  Man is free and shares this gift with God.
The Self therefore permits the visit of the five senses.  This is due to freedom given to man to look without or look within.  Such freedom is only a trick, a piece of jugglery.  Temptation comes to purify and strengthen us.   Unless one overcomes the temptation, he cannot but fall a victim to the five senses.   The five senses are governed by the mind.  Unless the mind is brought to control, the five senses will play havoc in our life.  All this play happen due to our prarabdha.  What we can do?  We should try to put in efforts, to bring the mind look within.  For a person who can bring the mind to look within, there is no effect of prarabdha.

12.  You are the One without a second, the sole Real thing.  O Arunachala!  Who can hide you or hide from you, and come in here?  If strangers come in, it is with Your knowledge.  All this is but Your jugglery.

God or Sri Bhagavan remains in us, as the Self.  But at the same time, He also gives the mind to see whether the man uses this in a proper manner.  One can say that this is the play of Maya.  For a person who has overcome the sports of Maya, there is only bliss because the mind is curled up within the Self.



Arunachala Siva.             
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 24, 2010, 01:54:32 PM
 Dear Sir, with the help of a very apt quote from the timeless Upanishad, ( reply 334 )  you have nicely shown the Self to be superior to gross elements like earth, water, fire and air and subtle elements like space and mind. Contemplation on such meaningful thoughts again and again reinforces conviction to pursue Self-enquiry intensely and awakens us to the dire need to know who we truly are. Thank you so much sir.
  Sri Einstein concluded that spce and time , contrary to general perception, are not two independent entities. He, therefore,  postulated space-time depending on the observer. So, even in Physics, the crux of the matter has been reduced to the mind and the person observing the events in time. But the Self is still elusive and will continue to be ever so , so long as physical sciences are solely dependent on the sensory data alone and no space is given to the faculty of intuition. Regards. Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 24, 2010, 02:45:21 PM



Dear Anil,

Einstein says that time and space are not two different quantities.
There is only one.  One is the quotient of other.  If one travels
faster than light, he comes back even before he started.  In other
words, time is not real.  You must also be knowing about the dilation
of time.

Sri Bhagavan says that both time and space are not real.  If one
is self realized, both time and time are not there.  Only the Present - Now - is the truth.  Sri Bhagavan says in ULLadu Narpadu
verses 15 and 16:

15. Past and future are dependent on the present.  The past was
present in its time and the future will be present too.  Ever-present
is the present.  To seek to know the future and the past, without
knowing the truth of time today, is to try to count without the number 1.

16.  Without us there is no time nor space.  If we are only bodies, we are caught up in time and space.  But are we bodies?  Now, then, always, -- here and now and everywhere -- we are the same.  We exist, timeless and spaceless we.



Arunachala Siva.     
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 25, 2010, 06:56:50 AM
  Dear Sir, with matter becoming rather ghost-like, absolute space and time of the classical Physics turning out to be intangible space-time, little wonder that Sri Einstein was looking for a 'Cosmological Constant', in an universe undergoing accelarating expansion.
  But Sri Bhagwan has taught His devotees that space and time along with the insentient matter are mental creations and the mind rises from 'Sat-Chit-Ananda' swarupa Brahman who is our own Self. Therefore, for the devotees of Sri Bhagwan all space is reducible to ' HERE ' and all time to  'NOW'. So, for us, Reality is here and now in the hearts of all. Sri Bhagwan taught us that we are Consciousness in which are appearing and disappearing mind, body and universes without beginning and end. But, nevertheless, what I have to do with the changing phenomena, I am the unchanging screen sustaining the phenomena. Thank you so much sir. Regards. Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 25, 2010, 09:09:10 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes. Since the space and time are mental concepts, which we ourselves do not know, when we are in deep sleep, the self realized
Jnani like Sri Bhagavan had no such feelings of space and time.

Sri Bhagavan says in Stanza 3 of Atma Vidya Kirtanam:-

Of what avail is knowing things
Other than the Self?  And the Self being known,
What other thing is there to know?
That one Light that shines as many selves,
Seeing this Self within
As Awareness' lighting flash;
The play of Grace; the ego's death;
The blossoming of Bliss.

He again says in ULLadu Narpadu, Supplement, Verse 7:

Master:  By what light do you see?
Disciple: The sun by day, the lamp by night.
Master:  By what light do you see these lights?
Disciple:  The Eye
Master:  By what light do you see the eye?
Disciple:  The mind
Master:  By what light do you know the mind?
Disciple:  The Self
Master:  You, then are the Light of Lights.
Disciple:  Yes, That I am.

Saint Manikkavachagar says:

I do not my self. I do not know when the day becomes the night.
You have made me transcend the mind the speech.  You have made me mad. O Lord of Tiruperundurai, I do not know anything
other than Your golden feet.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 25, 2010, 01:51:59 PM
Dear Sir,

Ji, yes, ‘I’ is the Light of all lights. That Light, verily, I am.

The lighting flash of the Awareness is the Guru’s Grace fructifying
burning the deep ignorance that is the ego. The death of the ego is
the blossoming of the bliss.

 In the context of the current discussion, I cite below Verse-27, Ch-13
 from Srimad Bhagavad Gita:

“ Samam sarvesu bhutesu tisthantam paramesvaram
  vinasyatsv avinasyantam yah pasyati sa pasyati.    “

He really sees who perceives the Supreme Lord alike in
everything-as the Imperishable Substance abiding amidst
perishing phenomena.

  Thus, only the one who sees his own Self as the Imperishable Substance
  abiding in all perishing phenomena sees correctly with Jnana Chakshu.
  The rest who see with the fleshy eyes see only the perishing  phenomena
  resulting in fear and sorrows. Thank you so much sir.

                                                                              Regards,
                                                                                 Anil 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 26, 2010, 08:19:54 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

You have very nicely dealt with the question of  freedom (free will) and predestination in one of your previous posts under the current topic ( reply 236 ).

I wish to say that there is no confusion regarding the free will and the predestination. Sri Bhagwan has said that all our activities and actions are predestined. The experiences that this body-mind has to undergo cannot be altered however hard we may try to do so. Therefore, free will or the freedom is non-existent so far as the external concerning the body and the mind are concerned. But the fundamental question is, are we either the body or the mind ? No, we all say we are the Self, but, nevertheless, we cannot cease to identify with the body and the mind which is the not-Self.

THE REAL CHOICE OR THE REAL FREEDOM OR THE REAL FREE WILL IS EITHER TO ERRONEOUSLY IDENTIFY WITH THE BODY THAT IS PERFORMING THE ACTIONS OR WITH THE UNDERLYING TRUTH, I AM THAT I AM OR THE SELF IN WHICH THE BODY APPEARS AND IN WHICH IT DISAPPEARS. Choice is ours. Identify with the body and  continue to suffer or remember and be our Self and experience the ‘ Blossoming of Bliss , which is our real nature. Can we blame God if we choose of, our own volition, the former ?

So, we always have only one real choice to make. Either to remember and be aware of the Self or remain trapped in the body-mind complex and experience pangs of births and deaths and suffer endlessly.

Free will or no free will, we are the Self. Nothing can obstruct my awareness of the Self except my own self-imposed ignorance of the form ‘ I am the body-mind ’. If, by proper enquiry, we remove this ignorance Self is revealed. This revelation of the Self is not predestined but the result of the removal of the ignorance of our own choice, our own volition, of not identifying ourselves with the body but of remembering and enquiring and being Self-aware. Self-Revelation does not form the part of the destiny. Only outer bodily activities are predestined.

Therefore, it is obvious that our responsibility does not lie in trying to change the predestined course of actions that will materialize any way, sometimes as if from nowhere, whether we like it or not. Our responsibility, therefore, is to pay attention always to the inner life only. Free will or the freedom pertains only to the inner life. That alone is our responsibility. After all, why should I care, why should I lament that this and that are happening to some entity that is not me ? Why should I blame God for some thing that should not be my concerns in the first place, and which, in truth, is happening outside of myself ? Should I be concerned if something happens to somebody living in an unknown region ? However endearing my body and the mind may appear to me, the truth is that it is an unknown entity of the unknown region which on awareness of the true Self is non-existent. Thank you so much sir.


                                                                                                            Regards,
                                                                                                               Anil
                                                                                                       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 26, 2010, 09:14:28 AM
  Dear Sir, reply 342 has been posted with reference to your post, reply 336. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 26, 2010, 10:18:14 AM



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan describes this squarely in Verse 19, of ULLadu Narpadu:

The debate 'Does free will prevail or fate?' is only for those
who do not know the root of both.  Those who have known the
Self, the common source of free will and of fate, have passed
beyond them both, and will not return to them.

Sri Sankara says in one of his verses:  To ask whether the egg
came first or the chicken came first, I shall tell them, "Crush the
egg and wrench the neck of chicken and throw both on the ground.
Sit on the ground and look at the Space and meditate."  Only
the Space, Akasa is the Truth and not these debates.



Arunachala Siva.
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 26, 2010, 02:40:51 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan’s reply to the Mother when She insisted on taking Him back home should be the final words on the question of  free will and destiny for us, the devotees of Bhagwan Sri Ramana. Sri Bhagwan said that what is to happen will happen and what is not to happen will not happen however hard  we may try not to happen and  to happen respectively. Therefore , Sri Bhagwan said, the best course is to remain silent. But so long as the wrong identification persists, question of the free will as well as the destiny keep cropping up unwittingly.

 Sri Bhagwan says that free will and destiny last as long as the body lasts. But wisdom transcends both, for the Self is beyond knowledge and ignorance. ( Talks, no. 346 )

Sri Bhagwan : Free-Will holds the field in association with individuality. As long as individuality lasts so long there is free will. All the sastras are based on this fact and they advise directing the free will in the right channel.
  Find out to whom Free-Will or Destiny matters. Abide in it. Then these two are transcended. That is the only purpose of discussing these questions. To whom these questions arise ? Find out and be at peace.
                                                                          Talks, no. 426

Ji, yes, if we enquire within and abide as the Self, Free-will as well as the Destiny will certainly be rendered null and void. Thank you so much sir.

                                                                                            Regards,
                                                                                                Anil
                                                                             
     

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 26, 2010, 03:19:50 PM
  Dear devotees, Plato's Idea of Goodness may remain an unsolved problem
 for the empiricists as well as the materialists. But Plato himself reached the 'Idea of God'
 holding the Idea of Goodness.For the devotees of Sri Bhagwan, this does not raise any problem either.
 For the devotees of Sri Bhagwan are aware that only 'the Self is'. And It is the repository of all ideas including the Ides of Goodness.Thank you. Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 26, 2010, 05:58:10 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes. What Sri Bhagavan said to Mother Azhagamma was in essence,
Saranagati Tattvam.  Everything is ordained by god. Whatever is not
destined not to happen, will not happen even if one tries to make it happen. Whatever is destined to happen, will happen even of one does make any try make it to happen.  Hence it is better to be silent.

What Sri Bhagavan later said to Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni is atma
vichara.  'See where the mantras that come from you, become quiescent.  You stay there.'  This is in essence is Atma Vichara.
All pujas, mantras, karmas, yoga sadhanas should finally end in
Atma Vichara.

Sri Bhagavan used to give the example of bulls that were drawing a cart with a lot of goods for which tax has to be levied.  Once the cartman wanted to divert the bulls into a jungle path to avoid tax
at toll gate.  Soon he went into sleep inside the cart.  When he woke up at 2.00 a.m. he found that the bulls have stopped at the toll gate.  So the bulls can never escape the tollgate.  Like this,
we all have to finally come to Atma Vichara, regardless of other paths  that we pursue.

Sunga Chavadi tappathu said Sri Bhagavan.

Sunga Chavadi - toll gate.

Atma Vicharam and surrender are the two sides of the same coin.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 27, 2010, 08:40:35 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji, yes, the word ‘quiescence’ holds the key to Realization and is the essence of the Atma Vichara. All sadhanas other than Atma Vichara are preparatory to Atma Vichara and, therefore, auxiliary in nature, if I may say so. That is the reason why Sri Bhagwan advised not to waste time in the streets and the by-lanes and exhorted His devotees to take up Atma Vichara straight away. For all other sadhanas  essentially, finally, as well as naturally, must also end in the Atma Vichara.

Dear sir, general meditation on names and the forms is objective where as Atma Vichara is subjective. Meditation on the names and the forms creates a split in the consciousness where there is none. In Atma Vichara, the subject, the thinker, is held from the very beginning. Hence, general meditation is dual where as Atma Vichara is non-dual.

I feel that Sri Bhagwan’s statement that there are no two ‘I’s, there is only one ‘I’, is one of the greatest revelations ever made in any field whatsoever and is the greatest Act of Grace of Lord Sri Arunachala Ramana for His devotees and seekers. Moreover, Sri Bhagwan also said that ‘I’ casts of the illusion of ‘I’ and yet remains ‘I’.

Atma Vichara is the practice as well as the Goal. How ? My submission is as follows :

Sri Bhagwan says that nobody denies the existence of his self.
“ I AM “ is the Realization.
“ I AM “ is also clue to Realization. Sri Bhagwan says that to pursue the clue “ I AM “ tilll Realization is Atma Vichara. Therefore, Atma Vichara  and the Realization are the same. And, therefore, the Sadhana and the Goal are the same.

Sri Bhagwan : “ Vichara is the process and the goal also. ‘I AM’ is the goal and the final Reality. To hold to it with effort is Vichara. When spontaneous and natural it is Realization.
                                                                              Talks, no. 390

Besides, I wish to say that in the Sadhana of the Atma Vichara, the taste of the Realization Itself and the concomitant  Bliss is available to the seekers from very beginning of the Sadhana.

                                                                                            Regards,
                                                                                               Anil           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 27, 2010, 09:03:23 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  In Atma Vichara, the goal and the path are the same.
It is subjective, whereas the other paths are objective.  You
pray to the god with form, or do puja or chant slokas, keeping
the ego intact.  Only in final surrender, the ego is lost.  Whereas
in Atma Vichara, you first investigate the ego and make it lose
its hold on you. 

Then what about prarabdha?  The question of destiny. Sri
Bhagavan said:  Leave it to the Lord or Guru.  He told Muruganar:

Irunathapadiye Iru  -  Be as You are.
Guru aruL cheluthum vazhikke sel - Go as per the way of guru's
grace. It can be good or it can be problematic.  Leave it to  the
Guru.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 27, 2010, 09:17:14 AM
  Dear sir, ' Sunga chavadi tappathu ', you mentioned, needs to be further ellaborated. Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 27, 2010, 11:00:37 AM



Dear Anil,

Sunga chavadi thappathu.  Sungam means tax or toll.  Chavadi
is the place, where there is a small window, from which a govt.
official collects tax for vehicles using the road.  One cannot escape
paying the toll, 'thappathu'.  The tollgate or chavadi has to be reached before you cross the road and reach your destination.

For example, I am giving what Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman
gives as the example:

In the olden days, merchants used to buy goods in Pollachi [near
Coimbatore, Tamizh Nadu] market, where the goods are cheaper and then take them in bullock carts to Palakkad [in Kerala] for selling with a profit.  One of these merchants wanted to avoid tollgate and pay tax.  So he diverted the carts into a jungle path to avoid going through the tollgate in the main road.  It was late evening.  The cartwallah after lighting a lantern, under the cart, went to sleep.

When he woke up, say, around 2 a.m. [by which time the cart must have reached Palakkad,] he found to his dismay, that the bulls were simply standing before the tollgate.  So, the bulls knew the route and even if the cart was diverted into a jungle path, the bulls retraced and came and stood before the tollgate, as was usual the practice!  Even if you choose other paths, the soul had to come to self inquiry, before reaching the destination i.e. self realization,
at any cost!  The toll-man, the guru or god,  will not leave you from paying the tax!

Sri Bhagavan used to give this example.  That is, for reaching the final destination, that is self-realization, one has to go through self inquiry.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 27, 2010, 04:37:57 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for explaining ‘ Sunga Chavadi thappathu ‘ so nicely. I understand it now as follows :

One cannot escape pursuing Self-Enquiry to reach the final destination of  Self Realization. ( One cannot escape paying the toll tax, thappathu. )

One has to go through the practice of the Self Enquiry to reach the Self. (  One has to go through Chavadi to reach final destination. )

  Even if one tries to avoid paying toll tax by diverting the cart to side roots etc. to escape the toll gate, the bull knows the path and it will certainly take one to the gate.

Even if one chooses other paths, soul knows the straight path and ultimately it reaches the Self Enquiry to reach the final destination of the Self Realization.

Dear sir, I also learnt from you :
‘ Irunathapadiye Iru ’-Be as you are.
And ‘ Guru arulcheluthum vazhikke ‘-Leave the rest to the Guru.

Have I understood the meaning correctly, Sir ?

                                                                                    Regards,
                                                                                        Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 28, 2010, 08:18:43 AM
Dear Devotees and Seekers,

Sri Bhagwan said that a person’s search for happiness is the unconscious search for the Self. We all desire our happiness to be permanent. Sri Bhagwan says that such desire for permanency of happiness bespeaks such permanency in our own nature. We must understand that we are seeking only that which is innate in our nature, nay, which is our real nature. Happiness cannot lie outside of ourselves. It cannot be found in either objects or in others like near and dear ones. The apparent happiness that one seems to derive by securing a coveted or a much desired object or in a satisfying relationship is, in fact, happiness within. But such happiness can, as is obvious, cannot be permanent. Seeking continues anyway. And with this endless seeking one is doomed to experience concomitant and alternating cycles of sorrows and pleasures and remain trapped in this quagmire birth after birth.

What is obstructing us from realizing our own nature as the Bliss which is the only source of permanent happiness ? One is Existence, Consciousness and Bliss himself. Existence is not different from the Consciousness and the Consciousness is not different from the Bliss. ALL THREE ARE THAT ONLY. And one is always That only. Only ignorance, of the form ‘I am the body’ is preventing from being the Bliss that one in truth is  and the nature of ignorance is mere non-existent, false and insentient thoughts which all are dependent on the root I-thought or the ego. One is pure consciousness. Thus it follows that so long as the ego is in control and seeking and basking in relative pleasures, in the relative world, with relative consciousness, one is doomed to live a life as ordained by the prarabdha. In truth, we do not really have a choice.

Dear seekers, should we not give a whole-hearted sincere try by treading the straight Path of Atma Vichara with an attitude of surrender to the Guru. We should never forget that only Self Enquiry with an attitude of surrender to Sri Bhagwan can ensure removal of ignorance of our true nature. Only then this tenacious ego can be jettisoned. See what the Guru says :

“ One wants to enjoy bliss, eternal happiness, while retaining the ego intact. How is it possible ? The two cannot co-exist. Bliss is there when one is immersed within in the desireless state. On the other hand, the ego is maintained by the sprouting of desires.”

                                                     From More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi

However hard one tries, so long as one is there to try to achieve happiness in the ephemeral and the illusory world, permanent happiness will remain elusive. Ego and happiness cannot co-exist. Enquiry into oneself is the only root to that.

                                                                         Thank you,
                                                                             Anil
                   


Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 28, 2010, 09:39:55 AM



Dear Anil,

Iruntha padiye Iru - means Be as you are. Irunthapadi -as you are now, Iru, Be.  This is self enquiry.

Guru aruL chelutthum vazhikke sel -  Guru aruL chelutthum, as guru's grace [aruL=grace] directs you, be it good or bad, happiness or sufferings, sel - go.  This is saranagati.

Once there was a Vaishanvite devotee, who came to Sri Bhagavan.
He said:  What will happen if I constantly pray to Narayana?  Sri
Bhagavan said:  All good will happen.  Narayana will be pleased.
He will take you to Vaikuntam.  The devotee was not satisfied with this answer.  He asked further:  What will happen in Vaikuntam?
Sri Bhagavan said:  Why should you ask this?  You will be in
Narayana's abode, with all devotees singing his glory.  Narayana
will be happy watching you all, sitting on Adisesha.  The devotee was still not pleased.  He asked:  What will happen then?  Sri
Bhagavan then smilingly said:  If Narayana is so pleased, he will
one day, call you near, whisper in your ears, "Please do self enquiry! Investigate who you are!"

Everyone laughed.  Then the Vaishnava devotee said:  Then, that self inquiry, I can do it here itself.  Why go to Vaikuntam?
Sri Bhagavan laughed and said:  That is exactly what I am saying also!  The devotees including the Vaishnavite, again laughed!

The story indicates that the individual soul ultimately does not
want mere Vaikuntam or Kailasam.  The soul wants merger with the Self, One without a second. The merger alone will satisfy the individual soul  or Jiva eventually, as the rivers do not stop till they re-join with ocean.  Even if one goes to Vaikuntam or Kailasam,
the individuality, the ego, is retained.  The ego completely vanishes only when there is merger with the Self.

Saiva Siddhantam calls these as four stages:

1. Salokam - in the same place where Siva.
2. Sameepyam - being very close to Siva in Kailas.
3. Sarupam - having the same form as Siva.  Like Sivaganas appear like Siva only in the same form.
4. Saujyam - Merging with Siva.  Becoming Sivam. Or
Consciousness.



Arunachala Siva.             


Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 28, 2010, 03:40:27 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji, yes, thank you so much for clearing my confusion regarding the meaning of the verse composed by Sri Muruganar. I now understand  the meaning of the sentences ‘ Irunatha padiye Iru  ’ and  ‘ Guru arul cheluthum ‘.

Dear sir, the story of the Vaishanavite devotee that you narrated so beautifully in your previous post contains a great teaching for us also. You yourself have elucidated it profoundly at the end of the story. I was particularly thrilled to read the following lines :

( Sri Bhagwan then smilingly said : If  Narayana is so pleased, he will one day call you near, whisper in your ears, ‘ Please do Self-enquiry ! Investigate who you are ! )

When I had been reading your post, Verse 10, Ch 10, of Srimad Bhagavad Gita, came strongly to my mind. I first cite the Verse below :

             Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam,
             Dadami budhi-yogam  tam yena mam upayanti te.
To them, ever steadfast in loving worship, I give the yoga of understanding,
by which they attain to Me.

Dear sir, have you contemplated on this Verse ? Sri Bhagwan as Lord Krishna declares that He bestows ‘budhi yoga’ to those who are ever in steadfast worship to Him by which they attain to Him. Now, what  exactly does ‘budhi yoga’ mean ? In most versions of Srimad  Bhagavad Gita, this has been interpreted to mean ‘yoga of understanding’ as has been taken here from the ‘Song Celestial’. However, in some other versions, ‘budhi yogam’ mentioned in this Verse has been translated to mean ‘intuitive power’ as a new capacity of understanding.

But I feel that by ‘budhi yoga’ the great Lord means only and only the Self Enquiry or Atma Vichara. How else Sri Bhagwan would help His loving devotees attain to Him ?
Did He not investigate as to His true Self during His ‘Death Experience’ ? Did He not advise the Vaishanavite devotee to investigate who he was, as beautifully narrated by
 you ?

Four stages of Saiva Sidhantam, as narrated by you, is also important for me. Thank you so much sir.

                                                                                    Regards,
                                                                                       Anil     
           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 29, 2010, 08:44:22 AM
Dear Devotees and Seekers,

Bubbles in the ocean are verily the ocean.
Ghat-akasa (akasa in the pitcher) is verily the Maha-akasa.
Jivas (relative consciousness) are verily the Supreme Conciousness.

We all are dreaming that we are limited individuals with names and forms .residing on a solid sphere in a known region. This is the waking dream.

Reality is One Infinite Sentient Silence Here and Now. It is ‘ Fullness of Consciousness ‘, ‘Pure Intelligence’, ‘Supreme Bliss’ and ‘Eternal Existence’, All in One at the same time. That is our Permanent Abode, nay, that  we are ever. ( Tat tvam asi)

Existence is ever realized. Existence, Sri Bhagwan said, can never be obscured by Maya. We ourselves cannot deny the fact of our own existence.

This body is inert like the log of wood. What intelligence, what principle are enabling us to think, to know and to perform actions ? We see dying all around us, we often see the deaths of our near and dear ones, certainty of death stares into our eyes all the time and we know that death is inevitable and one day it will consume all of us. Still, there is something that says from within ‘I’ cannot die, ‘I” am immortal. Well, this is the truth. ‘I’ is immortal.

We all are aware of the feeling of the existence. With a little tuning, we can be aware of this feeling of the existence underlying the three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping and even while engaged in activities during the waking state. We all feel it, we know it to be the same from the childhood to this day, although the body has decayed meanwhile and changed drastically. Reality is beckoning every moment. But we are in deep spiritual slumber. Infatuation with the body will not go away easily.

What is the ‘Original Sin’ ?
Two verses from ‘ The Supreme Science As Taught by Sri Raman’ by Sri Lakshman Sarma (WHO) are cited :

V-386
“ The Master says ‘original sin’ affirmed to be the cause of death by the Christians, is not an act done by the first man, but only the sense ‘I am the body’. “

V-387
“ This  sin is said to pertain to man, but men are not men in deep sleep. The sense of being a man is due to the identification of oneself with the body. Consequently, the original sin is only this identification of oneself as the body. “

                                                                             Thank you,
                                                                                 Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 29, 2010, 12:33:52 PM



Dear Anil,

I have not read the verse of Srimad Bhagavad Gita, cited by you,
in depth.  I am of the view that what Krishna says as Buddhi Yogam, is only sharp intellect that helps understand the Truth.  Sri
Bhagavan uses the word "NuN madhi" in Verse 23 of ULLadu Narpadu. Here, the phrase "NuN madhi" is translated only as sharp intellect that helps understanding.

Prof. K. Swaminathan while translating the above cited Verse 23,
says:

"The body says not it is 'I'.  And no one says, 'In sleep there is
not 'I'.'  When 'I' arises all other things arise.  Whence this
'I' arises, SEARCH WITH A KEEN MIND.

Arthur Osborne also uses the phrase WITH A KEEN MIND.

Smt. Kanakammal uses the phrase WITH A SHARP AND KEEN MIND.

I think, sharp mind or sharp intellect used to understand the
Truth is buddhi yogam.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 29, 2010, 02:31:49 PM
  At long last, a time comes when one realizes the illusory as well as the transitory nature of the world and futility of all endeavours therein. Intellect is, at last, convinced about the meaninglessness of the temporal life. Grace enables it to realize that there is certainly more to human life than what it has assumed it to be all along.

By the Grace of the Guru, the Path of the Self Enquiry is gained by the intellect. Seeking inward, inward……..deep inward with keen intellect one’s Source and abiding in It is the Path as well as the Goal. Sri Bhagwan says that after continuous practice with  perseverance, intellect realizes that it functions because it is itself enabled by a Higher Power and that on its own it cannot reach that Power. Sri Bhagwan says that a stage is reached during the practice itself of the Atma Vichara when the intellect ceases to function. When it thus ceases to function, that Supreme Power i.e. the Self is left all alone. Sri Bhagwan says that is the Realization ; that is the finality and that is the Goal. Thank you.

Dear Sri Subramanian sir, Sri Bhagwan says that before finality of the Realization, budhi itself ceases to function after realization by it that it itself is enabled by some Higher Power. I still feel that the keen intellect, if this is what is meant by the ‘budhi yogam’, must work out to Vichara to attain to Him. Thank you.
                                   

                                                                                                        Regards,
                                                                                                           Anil         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 29, 2010, 03:10:34 PM



Dear Anil,

There is one dhyana sloka written by Viswanatha Swami, which is
sung before the Ashottaram of Sri Bhagavan, as Invocation. Ashottaram = 108 Holy Names.

The verse reads as under:

Let us meditate in the Heart on Ramana, the
boundless ocean of Being-Awareness-Bliss, of which
the universe is but a wave, the steadfast one
established firmly in the Heart-Cave's depth,
free from distracting thought.

Sri Bhagavan remained as a waveless mid-ocean of Being-
Awareness-Bliss.  Thoughts were there.  But they were not
DISTRACTING THOUGHTS.  Only the distracting thoughts are
the waves, foam etc.,

The original sin as described by Sri Bhagavan is the thought,
"I am the body".  Adam and Eve understood their sexual difference as man and woman only with this thought.  Eating the forbidden
apple is nothing but this thought.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on December 29, 2010, 03:48:26 PM
When mind is still, things happen.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 30, 2010, 06:12:51 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for citing Sri Viswanatha Swami’s Dhyan Sloka. I had not seen it so far. Sometimes, I marvel and wonder at the Grand Divine Design. Sri Bhagwan’s Court was such a marvelous assembly which, besides general seekers and devotees, always comprised of  some great, distinguished, brilliant, learned and marvelous personalities, such as Sri Muruganar, Sri Ganapati Muni, Sri Narsimha Swami, Sri Arthur Osborne, Sri Lakshman Sarma, Sri Viswanatha Swami, Sri Munagala S. Venkataramiah etc. ( He alone knows how many more were there ! ) I feel that these luminous personalities were drawn to Sri Bhagwan like calves to their mother cows as Sri Kunju Swami so feelingly opined. Their coming to Him cannot be mere coincidence but certainly Grand Divine Design to spread His Sublime Teaching and Panacea-like Message.

Dear Sir, you have beautifully explained Sri Bhagwan’s point of view with regard to the ‘Original Sin’. ‘I am the body’ thought must precede an understanding of sexual difference as man and woman. There is neither man nor woman in deep sleep. On waking, with the rise of the body identification, arises the concepts of man, woman and all differentiation. Thank you so much.

                                                                                                Regards,
                                                                                                  Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 30, 2010, 08:49:58 AM
Dear Sri amiatall,

A still mind is the harbinger of  Realization. A still mind is the satva aspect of the mind. Rajas and tamas aspects of the mind give rise to ‘vikshepa’ and ‘veiling’ respectively where as the satva aspect remains  pure and uncontaminated. Satva mind is free of the thoughts and Sri Bhagwan says that it is identical with the Self. Mind is akin to akasa. Just as there are objects in the akasa, there are  thoughts in the mind. Sri Bhagwan has revealed that the satva mind, free from thoughts, manifests Brahman and is finally resolved into It.

Besides, Sri Bhagwan says ( Talks, no. 384 ) that “ the so called genius is one who worked hard in his past births and acquired knowledge and kept it in store as samskaras. He now concentrates his mind until it merges in the subject. In that stillness the submerged ideas flash out. “

So much for discoveries and inventions ! Sri Bhagwan says that samskaras for inventions and discoveries manifest themselves in a calm and still mind. Therefore, you are on the right trail when you say that things happen when the mind is still.

                                                                                                  Thank you,
                                                                                                      Ani   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 30, 2010, 09:46:29 AM



Dear amiatall and Anil,

Yes.  A still mind will make things happen.  One should not keep
on worrying that vasanas had not been erased etc., 

Entry dated 26.6.1946 from Devaraja Mudaliar's Day by Day:

...."Then turning to Khanna, Sri Bhagavan said, "Why distress your mind by thinking that Jnana has not come or that the vasanas
have not disappeared?  Dont' give room for thoughts.  In the last
stanza of Sukavari by Thayumanavar, the Saint says mush the same
as is written on this paper [given by Khanna]."

And Sri Bhagavan made me read the stanza and translate it into
English for the benefit of those who do not know Tamizh.  It goes: "The mind mocks me and though I tell you ten thousand times you are indifferent, so how am I to attain peace and bliss?"

Then I said to Khanna:  "You are not the only one who complains to Sri Bhagavan like this.  I have more than once complained in
the same way, and I still do, for I find no way improvement in myself."

Khanna replied:  "It is not only that I find no improvement but I think I have grown worse.  The vasanas are stronger now.  I can't understand it."

Sri Bhagavan quoted the last stanza of Mandalathin of Thayumanavar, where the mind is coaxed as the most generous and disinterested of givers, to go back to its birthplace or Source, and thus give the devotee peace and bliss, and he asked me to read out a translation of it that I once made.

Khanna then asked: "The illumination plus mind is Jivatma and the illumination alone is Paramatma, is that right?"

Bhagavan assented and then pointed out to His towel and said: "We call it a white cloth, but the cloth and its whiteness cannot be separated, and it is the same with the illumination and the mind that unite to form the ego."  Then, He added:  "The following illustration that is often given in books, will also help you.   The lamp in the theatre is the Para Brahman or the illumination, as you put it.  It illumines itself and the stage and actors.  We seethe stage and the actors by its light, but its light still continues when there is no more play.  Another illustration is an iron rod that is compared to the mind.  fire joins it and it becomes red-hot.  It glows and can burn things, like fire, but still it has a definite shape, unlike fire.  If we hammer it, it is the rod that receives the blows, not the fire.  The rod is the Jivatma and the fire, the Self or Paramatma."



Arunachala Siva.                     

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on December 30, 2010, 02:40:49 PM
When mind is still, it is like Subramanian has pointed out - cart is traveling on its own while driver is sleeping.
No concern about energies, budhi, kundalini, what happens before realiztion, what after, how those work, etc. All these happen automatically by itself.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 30, 2010, 03:05:28 PM



Dear amiatall,

Yes.  The Cart is the body and the Driver is the Self.  The bulls
are Indriyas [senses]. 

Saint Tayumanavar says about this sleeping, as wakeful sleeping.
You are wakeful as the Self, Awareness and you are sleeping with regard to the happenings around.

Sri Bhagavan says in Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai, Verse
37:-

If I slumber in quiet repose enjoying the Bliss of Being, what other
moksha [liberation] is there, tell me, O Arunachala!



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 31, 2010, 06:40:38 AM
  Dear Sri amiatall, yes, analogy between wakeful sleeping (still mind) and bullock cart, as drawn by Sri Subramanian sir, is very apt. One is wakeful as the Self and sleeping with regard to happening around. Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 31, 2010, 08:53:53 AM



The most secret verse of Srimad Bhagavad Gita [2.16] reads:

Nasatho vidhyathe bhavo naa bhavo vidhyathe satha |
Ubhayo rapi dhrushtonthas thvanayos dhathvadharsibhi ||

That which is not there always, can never attain permanency.
That which is permanent does never lose its state.  Those who
understand this truth realize the Truth.

Extending the bullock cart story, the bulls [with the cart]
were running at a great speed.  The bulls thought:  Nothing
can stop us.  This is royal road. They suddenly found a camel
lying on the road.  They thought that they can run over the camel.
As they hit the animal, the camel stood up.  The bulls and the cart
fell down spread-eagled.  The bulls got severely bruised and died.
The cart got broken with wheels and the main plank lying in two
different directions.   



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on December 31, 2010, 10:37:28 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

When one’s goal is to ‘be’, even the thought that Jnana has not come or the vasanas have not all together disappeared, is a hindrance. ( w.r.t. your post, reply 363 ) Even such a thought creates split in the unitary consciousness and will result in subject- object relationship which is in the realm of Maya or the relative consciousness. When I say that I am seeking Jnana, it is akin to saying that I, the subject, am seeking Jnana, the object. It is as if I am different from the Jnana, which I am not. Sri Bhagwan says not to give room to any thought. Therefore, even thinking that I am not realized is an obstacle to be crossed.

Dear sir, similes of the theatre lamp, red-hot heated iron ball and the bullock cart and the superimposition of a snake on the substratum of the rope in the dim light, are of great spiritual importance which have been used from the time immemorial to impart , to seekers of truth, teaching of the Oneness that is the Self or the Brahman and the unreality of the transitory world including the jivas and God, Triads or the triputi of the world, jivas and God, as Sri Bhagwan said. I think  all these similes have been used in the Vedanta for the same purpose. Isn’t it, sir ?

Dear sir, you have very nicely explained the similes of the bullock cart as well as the red-hot iron ball. A red-hot iron ball glows and even can burn things, but still it has a definite form, unlike the fire. If it is hammered, it is the iron ball which receives the blows and not the fire.The ego which shines in the ‘Light of the Self’ receives the blows from the ill fate, when misfortune befalls, and not the Self. Very  well said, sir.

Dear sir, particularly with the simile of the theatre lamp, I wish to say that  the stage, the actors, the play itself, the audience, as well as the illumination by which they all are being illumined, are He only. As the illumination is there even before the play commences and after the play is over and of course during the play, it is illumining all including even the audience, even so the Self or the Brahman is ever present, whether one is playing in the world assuming it to be real, or whether knowing it to be unreal as the realized person, or whether there is a play or no play at all. Thank you so much, sir.

                                                                                                           Regards,
                                                                                                             Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on December 31, 2010, 01:05:30 PM



Dear Anil,

Once Annamalai Swami, after having been relieved from construction work and when he was living in Palakottu, asked Sri Bhagavan:-

"Bhagavan!  If I could remain always in solitude, and if I could get
some food everyday, and if I am free from any ailments, then the
self realization will be easy.  Is it not, Bhagavan!"

"So you want to remain always alone.  You should get some food
everyday.  You should free from ailments.  Look, for all these
you have to wait for a few more births.  Do not think any of them.
Just Be."

One should as Sri Bhagavan said: Be still.  Let some thoughts come here and there.  Let some food come on its own here and there.  Let there be crowd around you or not.  One should remain still.  Irunthapadiye Iru.  That is the sum and substance of His
teachings.

Once there was one devotee called Thinnai Swami.  [Thinnai =
out portal of old type houses].  He got this name Thinnai Swami
later.  Earlier he had some other name.  Once when he came and was about to take leave of Sri Bhagavan, Sri Bhagavan merely said:  Iru.  Be. Not even summa iru, be still.  The gentleman continued to stay in T'malai. His wife and relatives pursuaded
him to come with them.  He did not go.  He did not even stay inside the Asramam.  He stayed on a portal of a house.  On a
few days he used to take bath.  Otherwise he remained as he was,
gazing at the Hill.  He had only one dhoti and shirt.  Once in a way, he used to wash them.  Food was given by the residents of streets occasionally.  He lived like that for many years. Grew old.
But he was ever in a state of samadhi, not caring for food or clothing or even sleep.  On  a Mahadeeapm day, he said, after seeing the light on the summit of the Hill, "O Ummaulai [Apeeta
kuchambal is calling me.  Let me go."  He just leaned on the back of the wall and merged with Arunachala.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 01, 2011, 06:52:27 AM
                             OM   NAMO  BHAGAWATE  SRI  RAMANAYA

 Arise, awake Oh Bhagwan  of  Tiruchuzhi. Oh ! Beautiful One who abides in all, arise to bestow auspiciousness on your devotees.

 Good Morning. Oh ! Ramana the Supreme Consciousness Bliss. You awaken  your devotees to the truth, “ I am that “ by insisting, “ You first engage yourself in self-enquiry WHO AM  I  and get firmly convinced that you are not the body. “

Good Morning. Oh ! Ramana the Supreme Consciousness Bliss. In compassion, you told Amrthnatha Yati, “ I am not HARI (Vishnu) or SIVAGURU (Subramania) or Siva. I am Ramana of ARUNACHALA, the Supreme Self, the indweller of all hearts viz.  ARUNACHALESWARA “.

                                                         Morning hymn on Sri Bhagwan
                                                               Centenary Souvenir                                                                                                                                                                                                     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 01, 2011, 06:55:08 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I do not know why have you said that the Verse 2.16 is the most secret verse of Srimad Bhagvad Gita. In my view, this verse is an open declaration of the Great Lord that there is no existence of Asat and there is no non-existence of Sat. Only Sat is  Existence. Ever changing Prakriti and its works are Asat and, therefore, have no existence.

Sri Ram Sukh Das, the author of a very popular Hindi version of the Gita, writes in his commentary on the Verse 2.16 that although there are Existence and non-existence in the world, it is mainly non-existence. In Parmatma, although there are Existence and non-existence, Existence is the Supreme Reality. In the world, in non-existence there are Existence and non-existence. In Parmatma, in Existence there are Existence and non-existence. Therefore, the world is Asat and Parmatma alone is Sat. Sat is Existence and the Asat is non-existent.

Dear sir, in the story of the deluded bulls running blindly, the bulls represent the senses. If  bulls are not reined in by the driver, fate of the cart is doomed as so beautifully narrated by you. Even so, if the senses are not reined in by the ego-mind, his fate is also doomed like the cart in the story.. Thank you so much.

                                                                                        Regards,
                                                                                           Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 01, 2011, 07:10:04 AM
   Dear Devotees and Seekers of Truth from all over the world,  Happy New Year,  !!

  Pray to Great Lord Bhagwan Sri Ramana to take us from the darkness of ignorance to
  the Light of Knowledge.

                                                                 Thank you,
                                                                     Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 01, 2011, 10:52:12 AM



Dear Anil,

In the verse Nasatho... Sri Krishna speaks about the pure advaitam.
He says that things which were not there before cannot get permanence now; thing that which is permanent will never leave
its permanence.  The Self is permanent.  It is eternal.  It is ever
present.  It is transcendent of time and space.  All other things,
like this universe, jiva and personal gods [Iswara] are impermanent.
The commentators of Srimad Bhagavad Gita always twist this verse
and simply say Narayana or Krishna is permanent. The Jivas will go to Vaikunatam and attain permanence!  When Vaikunta and Kailasa itself are only imaginations, and even Krishna left this world along with all Yadavas, how can they be permanent.  Only the Brahman is permanent.  The verse is secret in the sense, it is hiding the
basic tenet of Ajata Vadam, and makes room for many many imaginary interpretations.  No one excepting Sri Sankara and Sri
Bhagavan have given the direct meaning.  Nowadays, Sri Ramakrisha Math commentaries give the direct meaning.



Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 01, 2011, 01:18:58 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I do not exactly remember, but perhaps Sri Bhagwan has said that a seeker of Truth should make efforts and do Atma Vichara in whatever worldly conditions and predicament he finds himself in. ( w.r.t.your post, reply 369 )  He should not wait and thus should not waste time for right conditions to prevail to take up Atma Vichara.

Dear sir, the story of Sri Thinnai Swami as narrated by you is deeply moving. He must be what Sri Bhagwan termed as a ‘Dhira’. Sri Bhagwan has defined a ‘Dhira’ as the one who always keeps the mind inward bent without letting it loose.

Sri Bhagwan said to him, “ Iru. “ or “ Be. “ He did not even say to him, “ Be still. “

Sri Bhagwan says that  “ the Self is only Be-ing, not being this or that. It is simply Being.
Be-and there is an end of ignorance “. ( Talks, no. 46 )

It is noteworthy that Sri Thinnai Swami was neither directed to ask “who am I ? “ nor told to dive deeper and search the source of his self by Sri Bhagwan. He was straight away told to be  and he, in turn, was from that very time just Be-ing. “ Just be “ is the Final Teaching of the Guru.

Dear sir, I cannot express my gratitude in words for narrating the story of Sri Thinnai Swami so nicely and purposefully. I didn’t even know Sri Swami’s name. Thank you so much..

                                                                                    Regards,
                                                                                       Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 01, 2011, 02:33:27 PM



Dear Anil,

Summa Iru is one of the Maha Vakyas of Sri Bhagavan.  The story
of this Thinnai Swami came in Mountain Path, sometime in the year
2009.  I am of the view that in Tiruvannamalai, Arunchaleswara and
His son Murugan and other saints have said only this. This is
Arunachala Sampradayam, I think.

Arunagiri Nathar's Tiurpugazh is being sung in Bangalore for
the past 8 days.  Tomorrow is the last day, 9th day [Subramanya
Navham] on which the people climb the small Hill here where there is Muruga temple, singing all the way in each step one Tirupugazh song.  I went for the function today and remained there for about
1 and a half hours.  The give annadhanam at lunch time.  I came
back around 11.30 PM.  It was a pleasant experience.  A group
of more than 100 gents and ladies sing songs.

Arunagiri Nathar was told by Skanda [after singing about 1800
songs]:  Enough.  Summa Iru.  He says in his last poem of 51 stanzas called Kandhar Anubhuti, Summa Iru sollaRa enRalume,
amma poruL onRum arinthalane.... You told me summa iru without speaking, O, I did not first understand it.  The power of silence,
I came to realize later.....



Arunachala Siva.     
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 02, 2011, 08:50:22 AM
‘Who is the seer ?’ when I sought within, I watched the disappearance of the seer and what survived him. No thought of ‘I saw’ arose; how then could the thought ‘I did not see’ arise ? Who has the power to convey this in  word when even Thou ( appearing as Dakshinamurti ) couldst do so in ancient days by silence only ? Only to convey by silence Thy (transcendent) state Thou standest as a hill, shining from heaven to earth.
                                                                 V-2, Eight Stanzas to Sri Arunachala

In silence Thou sadist, ‘Stay silent’ and Thyself stoodst silent, Oh Arunachala !
                                                               V-36, The Marital Garland of Letters

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

From ancient times, there are various spiritual centres in India representing various spiritual paths, doctrines and philosophies. There is no doubt whatever that among various spiritual centres, Sri Arunachala represents the Path of Self Enquiry and Doctrine of Advaita from the time immemorial.
Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan Himself revealed and made public the ‘Secret of Silence ’ of Sri Arunachala.

“ I have betrayed Thy (secret) workings. Be not offended. Show me Thy Grace now openly and save me, Oh Arunachala !
                                                                         V-98, The Marital Garland of Letters

Besides, message of the following is to be still only:

“ ..even Thou could do so in ancient days by silence only. “

“ Only to convey by silence Thy (transcendent) state Thou standest as a hill, shining from heaven to earth. “

So, by Silence only His State can be conveyed and to express this State of Silence, He is standing as a Hill.

Hence,
Sri Arunachala is conveying His State By Silence. 
Sri Dakshinamurty merged His advanced disciples in His Infinite Silence.
Sri Skanda said to Sri Arunagiri Nathar, “ Summa Iru “.
Sri Murugan, Sri Arunachaleswara’s Son and other great saints and sages who lived in Tiruvannamalai in the ancient times, all said , “Summa Iru.” Or “ Be still.”

Sri Bhagwan said to all those who understood including Sri Thinnai Swami, “ Be.” and repeated the great Biblical statement “ Be still and know that I am God.” umpteen times.

Dear sir, what is our Goal ? Our goal is to to realize our Self, to regain our forgotten ‘Natural State’. AND THAT STATE IS THE STATE OF “I AM”.

Sri Bhagwan says that the meaning or the significance of ‘I’ is God. The experience of  “ I AM “ IS TO BE STILL. ( Talks, No- 194)

“ I AM “ is God and stillness means free from thoughts.

Dear sir, in the light of the above, I feel that your observation that ‘Summa Iru’ is the ‘Arunachala Sampradayam’  is the living truth. I also feel exactly the same.

 Indeed, the “ Summa Iru ” or “ Be Still “ is the Sampradayam Arunachalam.

Thank you so much, Sir.

                                                                          Regards.
                                                                             Anil 
                                                               

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 02, 2011, 09:56:19 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  Arunachala Sampradayam is Be Still or Be silent.  This is what was taught by Muruga to Arunagiri Natha and by Sri Bhagavan to His devotees.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 02, 2011, 02:48:11 PM
Dear devotees and seekers,

what is the proper pradakshina ? Sri Bhagwan says that the proper pradakshina is going round the Self, or more accurately, to realize that we are the Self and that within us all the countless spheres revolve, going round and round. Sri Bhagwan in this context cited relevant Verse 3-39 from the Ribhu Gita as following :

 Reflecting “ I am the all-blissful Self”
 Is worship as with words and flowers.
 True circumambulation is the thought,
 “ In me the million universes roll”,
 He who knows all beings bow to him.
 And He to none,
 He bows before the Mahaliga-Self.

                                                       15.4.46 Morning, P-200/201, Day by day

Dear seekers, it is reported in Day by Day that  there were people who had deep faith that going round Sri Bhagwan is as good as going round the Hill of Sri Arunachala or a Temple image. Sri Bhagwan did not object to it but said that the best going round is going round yourself, or with the bhava expressed in the Verse 3-39 of the Ribhu Gita, as cited above. Sri Bhagwan says that meditation on the Self is the best worship.

                                                                                                      Thank you,
                                                                                                           Anil





Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 02, 2011, 04:29:51 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes. It is a nice story.  People started going round and round the
Old Hall and not only that, they were prostrating at the four corners
of the Old Hall.  This was an irritation to Sri Bhagavan and also to
His devotees, because their movements and their shadows through
the windows were distracting.  It was first started by Thenammal.
Then Sampuranamma.  The Suri Nagamma also started.  Then only
Sri Bhagavan remarked:  "What is this?  First Thenammal started and now everyone is doing.  What is do pradakshina?  It is coming round and round of one's Self within.  What is true namaskram.  It is prostration of the ego to the Self."  He quoted from Ribhu Gita and explained.  Slowly these practices came to halt.   Sri Bhagavan also has said that even before one did Namaskaram to Him in the Hall, He did namaskaram to the Self in him.  That is the greatness of Sri Bhagavan.

Once when Mysore Maharaja came, and after some talk with
Sri Bhagavan, wanted to do namaskaram to Him.  It was a open
Hall. But he was a King. So he hesitated. Sri Bhagavan, as a special case, went to the bathroom with the Maharaja and inside the bathroom,  Maharaja prostrated to Him, setting aside his head gear [Mysore petah, they call it].  It was a wet floor in the bathroom, but Maharaja did not mind it!



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 02, 2011, 05:52:35 PM
  Dear Sir, you have mentioned ( reply 375 ) that Sri Arunagiri Nathar's songs are sung for nine days in Bamgalore. On the ninth day devotees climb a small hill where there is a Muruga Temple. I wish to know where in Bangalor this hill is located so that I may be able to climp the hill and worship in the Muruga Temple when I visit the city some time in May this year. Thank you, sir. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 03, 2011, 06:41:23 AM
  Dear Sir, every word and every act of Sri Bhagwan while He was on the earth with a body ooze with Grace, Love, Kindness and Divinity. That He went to the bathroom with the king of Mysore so that the king may prostrate to Him is an extraordinary act of kindness and greatness shown to a devotee and not a king by an exalted and divine Guru. Thank you so much for narrating this story, full of Sri Bhagwan's Grace. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 03, 2011, 09:02:38 AM



Dear Anil,

Like Mysore Maharaja, the Maharajas of Cochin and Travancore
had also visited Sri Bhagavan.  But there is no special information about their prostrations to Him.  Maharani of Baroda had also
visited Him and she had presented a white peacock to the Asramam.  Even now their progenies are there in the Asramam.  Among various coloured peacocks, there are some white peacocks too in the Asramam. The total number of peacocks in the Asramam has been counted as 27.  There may be more in the Hill.

The Murugan Temple in Bangalore is on Mount of Joy, in Hanumantha Nagar, in South Bangalore.  Any autorickshaw wallah
or taxi wallah can take you there from the Bangalore City Railway
Station.  Yesterday, the Navaham was over and there was
Annadhanam for all visitors.   This was also celebrated in Chennai at Vadapazhani Temple and also in Tiruttani and Pazhani.



Arunachala Siva.
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 03, 2011, 09:22:56 AM
Let your mind be engrossed in Me. Be devoted to Me. Offer worship to Me. Be resigned to Me. Beloved as you are of me, I pledge in troth you shall come to Me alone.
                                                                       V-65, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

Sarva-dharman parityjya mam ekam sarnam vraja,
Aham tva sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah.

Abandoning dependence on all Dharmas ( or on human efforts at moral and spiritual upliftment ), come to Me as the only Refuge. Grieve not, I will deliver you from all sins.
                                                                      V-66, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Mahatma Gandhi regarded Srimad Bhagvad Gita as his Mother. No talk on Gita can be considered adequate without citing and savoring the taste of Her nectar-like Verses 65 and 66 which have been cited above. These two Verses are said to contain the essence of the Gita.
When I first read the above cited two Verses , I concluded that through these Verses the Great Lord is exhorting His dear devotees to surrender unreservedly. That surrender is enough to deliver me from all sins. Surrendering unreservedly, indeed, is enough to deliver one from all sins. But I learnt later from Sri Bhagwan that that kind of surrender is not easy initially and comes to one gradually with deep devotion to the Lord. But what I could not understand is the Lord’s exhortation, “ Abandoning all Dharmas, come to Me as the only Refuge. “ 
Dear sir, no single word of the Gita has been interpreted and misinterpreted more than the word ‘Dharmas’ mentioned in the Verse 18-66..What does actually ‘abandoning all Dharmas’ mean ? Dharma is interpreted by some interpreters to mean karmas. But, well, all karmas, obviously can not be abandoned. By some other schools of thought, this Dharma is interpreted to mean only Vedic ritualism and egocentric works. Some others interpret it to mean abandoning only the fruits of actions and not actions themselves which is supposed to be the main thrust of the Gita by some. Still, some others interpret it to mean that the Gread Lord is asking to abandon all margas and paths and to let the mind of the devotees be engrossed in Him, be resigned to Him, and offer worship to Him. (as said in Verse-65)

I had been confused. But when the Master’s Words of Grace lighted the Verse-66, the meaning as well as the essence of the Verses cited became crystal-clear.

Sri Bhagwan : (All) Sarva is only anaatmanah ( of the non-Self); the emphasis is on ekam (only). To the man who has strong hold of the eka ( one ) where are the dharmas ? It means, “ Be sunk in the Self.”

“ Rather, be fixed in the Self and act according to nature without the right of doership. Then the results of actions will not affect you. That is manliness and heroism.”

“ Thus, ‘inherence in the Self ’ is the sum and substance of Gita teaching. “
                                                                               Talks, no. 58

Thank you so much, Sir.

                                                                                          Regards,
                                                                                             Anil     

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 03, 2011, 11:05:53 AM

[

Dear Anil,

Very true.  Sri Bhagavan said to leave all the dharmas means only
what is outside, that is, the non-Self.  If you hold on to the feet
of Lord, Paadam, or the Self within [Padam], is the only thing that
you have to do.    Then one can be without any anxiety or worry.

Muruganar covers Srimad Bhagavad Gita verses in 5 places in
Guru Vachaka Kovai.

I. Verse 101:  The truth of this pre-eminent state [Ajata] was taught to Arjuna by Lord Krishna in the beginning [in chapter 2 of the Bhagavad Gita].  Krishna spoke of other doctrines in the following chapters because of Arjuna's bewilderment [that arose from] his inability to assimilate it.

Gita II.12:  It is not that I have never existed, nor thou nor these
kings.  Nor is it that we shall cease to exist in future.

Krishna does not mean that the body is immortal but refers to to the true Self, behind all bodies.

Krishna further elaborates in II. 16:

The unreal is never is.  The Real never is not.  Men possessed of
Knowledge of the Truth [Atma Jnanam] fully know both these.

Sri Bhagavan has chosen Verse II. 16 in His Srimad Bhagavad
Gita Saram.

II. GVK Verse 493:  By the fault of [consuming] excess, even
immortalizing ambrosia becomes deadly poison.  Many are the ills
that arise through the fault of immoderation.  Those who realize
the ruinous nature of excess are duty bound to banish it.

[This is also from a Bhagavad Gita sloka, I don't know the verse
number].

III.  Sri Bhagavan's Verse 14, after Verse 801 of GVK.
This is also from a Bhagavad Gita sloka, as  to whether a Jnani
sees everything as one.  This was done  to test King Janaka.

IV. GVK Verse 1033.  Here, the essence of BG X.20 is used.

V. GVK Verse 1178.  Here the substance of Srimad Bhagavad
Gita verse, "I am the Heart of all beings, and am their beginning,
middle and end." is used.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramanaduli on January 03, 2011, 01:55:12 PM
Dear Subramaniyan ji,


In general we can see  peacock in Murugan Hill temples. We can see in Thruparangundram and Palzhani. Bhagavan is also a Muruga avatar. Therefore lots of
peacocks are living in the ashram.


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 03, 2011, 02:09:43 PM



Dear Ramanaduli,

Yes.  Since the hill is nearby in TiruperugundRam, Pazhamuthirsolai,
and Pazhani as also in Tiruvannamalai, peacocks love to live there
and as Muruga's vehicle, they also come to the temples.  Devotees
also offer the peacocks and cocks to the deity, not for 'bali' but
as a simple offering.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 03, 2011, 03:58:04 PM
  Dear Sri Subramaian Sir and Sri Ramnaduli, when I visited Sri Ramanasramam during 'Deepam' in Nov, last year , I spotted only a few peacocks, certainly lesser than the usual number.  I could not spot any white  peacock supposed to be the progeny of the peacock offered to Sri Bhagwan by Maharani of Baroda. Thank you. Regards. Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 04, 2011, 02:03:45 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, I feel that Lord Sri Arunachala Ramana as Lord Sri Krishana sang nectar-like divine songs and gave Gita to the world and as Guru Ramana explained them.
  In the commentary of the Verse 493 of the Guru Vachaka Kovai, I think that Sri Murgunar refers to Verse 6. 16 of Srimad Bhagvad Gita in which Lord Sri Krishana says yoga is not for one who either eats or sleeps too much. In the next Verse i.e. Verse 6. 17 Lord advises moderation in food and sleep.

" Verily, yoga is not for him who eats too much or abstains from eating. It is not for him, O Arjuna who sleeps too much or keeps awake too much. "
      Verse 6. 16, Srimad Bhagvad Gita

" For the man who is temperate in food and recreation, who is restrained in his actions, whose sleep and waking are regulated, there ensues discipline ( yoga) which destroys all sorrows. "
        Verse 6. 17, Srimad Bhagvad Gita

Sri S. Radha krishnan while commenting on these Verses says that we must be free from animal cravings. We must avoid excess in all things.

  Sri Bhagwan has also said that sattvic food in moderate quantity is the proper aid in sadhana.
Thank you so much, sir.

            Regards,
                Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 04, 2011, 02:53:55 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan mentioned Sattvic food in moderate quantities.
Though not in Who am I?, but in several conversations, He has
mentioned excessive sleep is also not good.  He Himself used to
go for sleep on His sofa, at 10 PM and wake up between 2.00 am
and 3.00 a.m.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 05, 2011, 07:50:32 AM
  The essence of mind is only consciousness. When the ego, however, dominates it, it functions as the reasoning, thinking or sensing faculty. The cosmic mind being not limited by the ego, has nothing separate from itself and is therefore only aware. This is what the Bible means by " I am that I AM ".
 Talks, no. 188
 
   Sri Bhagwan says that the cosmic mind, manifesting in some rare being, is able to effect the linkage in others of the individual mind with the universal mind of the inner recess. Such a rare being is called the GURU or God in manifestation.     

  Dear devotees and seekers, we see that Sri Bhagwan says that the Cosmic Mind is only awareness " I Am " and is therefore verily the Self or Brahman ITSELF.
  Sri Bhagwan says ( Talks, no. 252 ) that the mind now sees itself as the diversified as the universe. If this diversity is not manifest it remains in its own essence, that is the Heart.
The Heart is the only Reality. The mind is only a transient phase.

Therefore, dear seekers, the peaceful mind is the Cosmic Mind which in truth is " I AM " or the Self. This Mind is indestructible. But Sri Bhagwan says that when one enquires, there is no mind.
( To continue in the next post )
       Thank you,
            Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 05, 2011, 08:42:34 AM
  There is the peaceful mind which is the supreme. When the same becomes restless, it is afflicted by thoughts. Mind is only the dynamic power(sakti) of the Self.
There is no difference between matter and spirit. Modern science admits that all matter is energy. Energy is power or force (sakti). Therefore all are resolved in Siva and Sakti i.e. Siva and Sakti i.e. the Self and the Mind.
 
      Talks, no. 268

  When Sri Bhagwan says that there is no mind or emphasises the need for the ' manonasa' , He certainly refers to the transient mind afflicted by thoughts. Peaceful mind and the Self are the One and the same. Only when the same mind for some reason becomes restless or active, the energy inherent in it becomes perceptions, thoughts, sensations which are the world phenomena and the universe. This dyndmic Sakti or the Energy when pure is not distinpuishable from the Self. Sri Bhagwan is asking us to destroy the contamination of the mind by enquiry and not the Mind ITSELF whic is verily the Self. Self is the Cosmic Energy Itself. Siva Himself is the Sakti. Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 05, 2011, 09:17:26 AM
  Dear seekers, the Dynamic Power i.e. Mind i.e. Sakti is obviously indestructible. Rise of thoughts in it is only transient and can be done away with by practice. So, what is to be wiped out is the mind with thoughts. Who will wipe out the mind afflicted with thoughts ? The mind. The residue is still the mind.  Thus the mind wipes out the mind and yet remains mind.  I wipes out I and yet remains I. Thank you. Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 05, 2011, 10:49:02 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes Pure Mind or Suddha Manas, as it is called by Sri Bhagavan is only thoughtless mind.  Occasional  thoughts for food, nature calls
can arise.  But no thoughts accompanied by ego, I-thought is permitted to attain the Self.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 05, 2011, 11:17:59 AM



Dear Anil,

Dead Mind or Mruta Manas is only the pure mind, without egoistic
thoughts.  It is like a burnt rope.  The burnt rope has got a form but
is of no use.

Muruganar speaks about dead mind in 6 places in Guru Vachaka Kovai.

1. Verse 1238:  The thought-free Sivam, whose very nature is Being-
Consciousness, is known only by the heroic one whose mind has
died, and who, having a thought-free mind, abides in mind's Source through being consciousness.  It is not known by those whose mids are associated with thoughts.

2. Verse 1106:  The pure mind of the Jnani, which exists and shines
as the witness, is a mirror that reflects even the impure thoughts
that arise in his presence, in those whose minds, are completely
warped.  Thus, he mystifies the minds of others in his presence by giving the impression that he is a deluded person.

3. Talks No. 204 quoted after Verse 1037:

Bhagavan:  ....Therefore we say that the Self-realized sage knows by his mind, but his mind is pure.  Again we say that the vibrating mind is impure and the placid mind is pure.  The pure mind is itself Brahman.  Therefore it follows that  Brahman is not other than the mind of the sage.

4. Verse 842:  When you are separated from the Self-state, the
thought that associates with you as 'my mind' and 'your mind'
is itself the binding entanglement.  You should know that the pure mind is only one, existing ever as the same, as it is, as the chit-
sakti [the power of consciousness] that remains merged non dually with the supreme Self, which is he extremely clear and pure being.

5. Verse 382:  Supreme Jnanis who do not see any bondage other than the mental movement [chitta vrittis] that arise in profusion
also do not see any liberation of other than a mind in which all chitta vrittis have died without leaving any trace.  This is their
verdict on bondage and liberation.

6. Verse 48:  This world, an infatuating throng of triputis, bewilders
the minds of people into believing that it has an independent existence distinct from Swarupa.  However, it is all only in the play of the power of consciousness, that not existing apart from that supreme, non-dual Swarupa, always remains one with it.

[Tr. David Godman]   



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 06, 2011, 08:57:24 AM
  Dear Sir, Sri Bhagwan says in Talks, no. 204 that vibrating mind is impure and the placid mind is pure and that the pure mind is itself Brahman.
From this statment it is settled that Pure Mind is indistinguishable and inseparable from the Self or Brahman.
  Any vibration implies energy. Therefore, sir, when the Mind for some reason becomes restless, It starts vibrating due to energy inherent and  activity such as thinking, seeing, the world phenomena etc. are the results.
  Pure Mind is one. How beutifully the great poet , the great devotee and Self-Realized Sri Murugnar has conveyed this truth in Verse 842 of GVK ! " When the mind shines as it is, ( that is, as ) the power of the clear Supreme Self Consciousness, it is surely only one. Know thus. " Thank you so much. Regards. Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 06, 2011, 09:39:02 AM



Yes.  Sri Bhagavan also says in Who am I?:-

Answer to Question No. 8 of M. Sivaprakasam Pillai:-

What is called 'mind' is a wondrous power RESIDING IN THE SELF.
It causes all thoughts to arise.  Apart from thoughts,  there is no such thing as mind.  Therefore, the thought is the nature of mind.  Apart from thoughts, there is no independent entity called the world.... The mind always exists only in dependence of something gross.  It cannot stay alone.  It is the mind that is called the subtle body [sukshma sarira] or the soul [jiva].



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 06, 2011, 10:25:18 AM
  Dear Sir, why is Sri Arunachala  called ' Ardh Narishawar' ? Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 06, 2011, 05:21:18 PM
  Sri Bhagwan says in ' Who Am I ? ' that the world is Shiv-Swarupa. If everything is Shiva-Swarupa, can my or your swarupa be any different from the Swarupa. No way. That my swarupa is  this block of a body is, in fact, fantasy or in imagination only however real and solid they might appear deceptively.

Mind ( Pure Mind ) is One with the Self.

Maya is One with the Brahman.

Sakti is One with Shiva.

Mother is One with Father. 

 Only One is. The Nature of  the One is Pure Consciousness, Pure Knowledge.

In essence, we all are That.

       Thank you.
           Anil

   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 07, 2011, 07:00:12 AM
  Only Self is. Its nature is Existence, Consciousness and Bliss. There is no mind. Mind is surmised because even 'witnessing' is the function of the mind. Therefore, Sri Bhagwan says as a concession Sudha Manas is admitted by the sages. Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 07, 2011, 07:47:29 AM
  For even 'witnessing' is the function of 'abhasa' or the reflection, Sri Bhagwan says that satvic mind is admitted by the sages as a concession to argument.

 Satvic mind is surmised of the jivanmukta and of Iswara. " Otherwise", they argue, " how does the jivanmukta live and act ? "  The satvic mind has to be admitted as a concession to argument. The satvic mind is in fact the Absolute Consciousness. The object to be witnessed and the witness finally merge together and Absolute Consciousness alone reins supreme.
    Talks, no. 68

Dear seekers, Sri Bhagwan says it is not a state of sunya (blank). It is the Swarupa. OUR REAL SELF. Thank you. Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 07, 2011, 09:29:24 AM



Dear Anil,

After closing Siva's eyes, [as a sport] and when the entire universe
plunged into darkness, Uma regretted her action and want to do tapas for her mistake.  She went to Kanchipuram and did long tapas, staying amidst fire during summer and staying in a cool pond, during winter. Siva told her to go to Tiruvannamalai.  She went there and continued her tapas staying in the Ashram of Gautama Maharshi, in a place called Ner Annamalai in the giri valam route.  This is from where one can see the summit of the Hill.

Siva appeared before her and she wanted to stay for ever on the left side of Siva's body.  This wish was granted.  She became the left half of Siva, Arunachaleswara.  Since now the couple has become concorporate, that is, half man and half woman, Siva is called
Ardha Nari [half woman]. 

Saint Manikkavachagar says in Tiruvachakam:

Pagam PeN uru aanai potRi.

Salutations to One who is half woman.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 07, 2011, 02:54:09 PM
 Dear Sir, Thank you so much for narrating in brief why Sri Arunachala is called ' Ardh Narishwar'. When I had been in Sri Ramanasramam in 2008 with my wife and daughter, Sri Vishnu ji, the Priest in the Asramam, told my wife that Sri Arunachala is the Ardh Narishwar. Now that you have come here , do not worry.
I had read that the Mother became One with Sri Arunachala after performing great Tapas  in Tiruvannamalai. But I to know in detail the sequence of events that led to Her separation from the Father, Her doing great Tapas in Tiruvannamalai and eventually Her merging and becoming One with Father.

Dear Sir, I wish to know whether It was Lord Shiva Himself who advised the Mother to perform Tapas in Tiruvannamalai as you have mentioned or it was Sri Gautam Rishi as I remember having read.

My wife says that that one Peak (eastern) of Sri Arunachala is called Unnamalai named after the Mother Uma. Is this true ? Is Sri Gautam Rishi's Ashram still in existence ? Regards. Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 07, 2011, 03:14:33 PM



Dear Anil,

When Uma offered to do tapas, for the mistake she had committed,
Siva only advised her to go to Kanchipuram.  Kanchi Puram is one
of the 7-moksha puris, the places where liberation is easy to attain.
It is the only place in South India, as one of the moksha puris.  The list does not contain Tiruvannmalai, because in case of Tiruvannamlai,
it is enough to remember it constantly to attain moksha.

After doing virulent tapas in Kanchipuram, Mother wanted to go to
Tiruvannamalai, on her own.  There Gautama Maharshi, who knew by his jnana that Mother was coming, asked her to stay in his Ashram for penance. He made suitable arrangements.

Today, Gautama Maharshi's Ashram is not there in its original form.  But there is a temple for Mother in the girivalam route, and from here, she did penance looking at the summit of the Hill.  The place is called Ner Annamalai, somewhere about 5 kms from the start of the giri valam route.  From here, Mother saw Siva and asked for his boons and she wanted to be concorporate with Him on His left side.   

Gautama  Maharshi was one who is said to have lived in Tiruvannamalai with continuous prayers and meditation to Arunachala.  Sri Bhagavan says in Sri AAMM, Verse 26:

"Great Hill of compassion praised by Sage Gautama, glance on me
with grace and govern me, O Arunachala!



Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 07, 2011, 06:08:59 PM
  Ji, yes, thank you so much, sir. Is there a Peak named after the Mother, perhaps Unnamalai, located in the eastern side of Sri Arunachala ? Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 08, 2011, 08:28:44 AM
Dear Devotees and Seekers,

Self being the only eternal and all pervading Reality, Its seekinng is like searching for the forgotten necklace which is always lying round the neck. It is ridiculous to seek that which is eternally ever Here and Now. Who am I apart from the Self to wish to seek It ? Sri Bhagwan says that it is like a drunken man who has forgotten his identity and asks, "Who am I?" Need for us to ask ,"Who am I?" arises because we have forgotten our identity with the Self and identify ourselves with the body.

There is no need for endless seeking in books and outside of oneself. Repose can be secured easily by proper enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan or by surrender to the Guru and keep quiet.

Sri Bhagwan says that people read in books ,"hearing, reflection and one pointedness are necessary". They think that they must pass through savikalpa and nirvikalpa samadhi before attaining Realization. Why should they wander in that maze ?
     Talks, no. 336     

Sri Bhagwan says that (Talks, no. 332) " some people read them (ponderous volumes like Vritti Prabhakara etc.) and then seek sages only to see if they can meet their questions. To read them, to discover new doubts, and to solve them, is a source of pleasure to them. Knowing it to be sheer waste, the sages do not encourage such people".

Sri Bhagwan asks, " What do they gain at the end ? "   
" IT IS ONLY CESSATION OF THE TROUBLE OF SEEKING. "
At long last, we find that the Self is eternal and Self-evident and all one needs is the "SUMMA IRU" or JUST BE STILL.

      Thank you,
           Anil           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 08, 2011, 10:53:32 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan says in three verses of the five in Ekatma Panchakam:

2.  One ever is the Self.  To ask oneself
'Who and whereabouts am I?'
Is like the drunken man's enquiring
'Who am I?' and 'Where am I?'

3.  The body is within the Self.  And yet
One thinks one is inside the inert body,
Like some spectator who supposes
That the screen on which the picture is thrown
Is within the picture.

5.  The Self alone, the Sole Reality,
Exists for ever.
If of yore the First of Teachers
Revealed it through unbroken silence
Say who can reveal it in spoken words?

[Tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan]



Arunachala Siva.   
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 09, 2011, 08:03:29 AM
  A simple man, not learned, is satisfied with japa or worship. A jnani is of course satisfied. The whole trouble is for the book worms. Well, well. They will also get on.
      Talks, no. 336

Sri Bhagwan says (Talks, no. 332) that " those familiar with logic, Vritti Prabhakara, Vichara Sagara or similar large works, cannot relish small works like Truth Revealed dealing with the Self and that pointedly too, because they have accumulated vasanas. Only those whose minds are less muddy, or are pure, can relish small and purposeful works."

Sri Bhagwan says that even book worms will one day come along. However, it is obvious  from the above two statments that Sri Bhagwan does not criticise study of small books dealing pointedly with the Self. He Himself has written a few invaluable books which are of utmost importance to the seekers of Truph from all over the world. What Sri Bhagwan seems to be criticising is those books which are full of misleading details, false exaggerations and worthless logic. It is noteworthy that Sri Bhagwan says that those familiar with logic and with large works are incapable of appreciating small works which deal exclusively with the Truth and the way to It pointedly like Truth Revealed. Scholars cannot relish them because they  contain neither technical details, nor critical arguments nor elegant words and phraseology. They have accumulated vasanas. Sri Bhagwan says that sages do not encourage such people for they even seek to test the sages with ther brain-racking questions and arguments. Thus, it follows that the books of the book worms are worthless for the purpose of Self-Realization.

However, Sri Bhagwan is not opposed to reading small, pointed and purposeful works like 'Who Am I?' or Truth Revealed etc. Sri Bhagwan is not opposed to   study of such works for intellectual conviction as well as reflection.   
       Thank you
           Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 09, 2011, 09:53:49 AM



Dear Anil,

I once wrote to David Godman that "Who am I?" alone is enough for
a sincere seeker.  He agreed and said that people want more elaboration, asking how will this small book give everything?
Most of us, ordinary people want only large books thinking that large books alone shall explain the truth.  How misguided are we!

Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman says:  ULLadu Narpadu is only a commentary on Who am I?  Srimad Bhagavatam, with 10000+ verses
is only commentary on ULLadu Narpadu.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 09, 2011, 10:41:10 AM
  Dear Sir, I wish to know whether Sri David Godman is still available for meeting devotees and seekers of Truth ? If yes, where and how ?

 Sri Bhagwan says that one does not relish small works like  ULLadu Napadu etc. which deal with the Self and the way to It pointedly because of accumulated vasanas. Here also accumulated vasanas are at the root of the problem. Sri Bhagwan's saying that such people are  incapable of relishing such purposeful works, in my view, is akin to saying that one is not able to do Self-enquiry.

Ji, yes, ULLadu Narpadu consisting of forty supremely divine and sublime Verses contains in itself the essence of whole Vedas and Vedanta. I do not know any other work which besides dealing with the  whole Advaitic Teaching in nutshell, pointedly and purposefully turns the an earnest seeker to the Truth that is his own Self and certainly an infallible way to It. Thank you so much sir. Regards. Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 09, 2011, 01:02:08 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  ULLadu Narpadu is easily the best treatise to understand
Sri Bhagavan's teaching of Self Inquiry.  Those who know Sanskrit,
can read Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni's Sanskrit translation.  This is
a free verse translation and is considered better than Sri Lakshmana
Sarma's translation, by Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman.

David Godman is available in Tiruvannamalai.  But one should meet him with prior appointment.  A couple of times or so in a week, he comes to the Asramam to spend sometime in Samadhi Hall and to collect his letters which are addressed c/o Sri Ramanasramam.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 10, 2011, 08:01:44 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan says that the Self is within five sheaths. It cannot be found in books. However, for understanding the Path and intellectual conviction and certitude, purposeful books dealing pointedly with the Reality and the path to It are essential aids particularly on Jnana Marga. And I feel that Sri Bhagwan's books like ULLadu Narpadu, Upadesa Saram, Who Am I ?, Self Enquiry, Spiriual Instruction, Talks etc. are more than adequate for the purpose of Realisation. I do not know any work which  is even remotely on par with any of the above mentioned Sri Bhagwan' books. They are unparalleled in the history of spiritual literature and will remain so for ever for they are timeless and  form the part of the sacred Vedanta.

Dear sir, thank you so much for conveying important information on Sri David Godman. I shall seek an appoinment with him when, by Sri Bhagwan's Grace, I visit Sri Ramanasramam next time.

       Regards,
           Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 10, 2011, 09:03:50 AM



Dear Anil,

I am not sure whether you have got three parts of the Power of the
Presence edited by Sri David Godman.  It gives detailed stories of
various important devotees of Sri Bhagavan.  The three parts cover
inter alia, stories of devotees like Kunju Swami, Ramanatha Brahmachari, Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni, Echammal, N.R. Krishna Murty Iyer, Narayana Iyer, Muruganar, and later devotees like Lakshmana Swami, Papaji, and Wolter Kiers.  These volumes are quite helpful to find how these ardent devotees were helped by Sri Bhagavan in the path of Self Realization.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 10, 2011, 10:08:38 AM
Dear Sir, while I had been on my way to Sri Ramanasramam from Bangalore by a volvo bus in Nov. last year during Deepam Ceremony, a lady devotee, sitting in front of me, was carrying  part one of  'The POWER of the PRESENCE' edited by Sri David Godman. I requested her to give me the book to peruse  a few pages. She gladly gave me the book. I read the story of Sri Siva Prakasam Pillai in it. The beauty of the style and presentation and the content of the book itself so deeply affected me that I decided that I must secure for myself all three parts of the book which I did from the Book-Depot of the Asramam. However, I have not been able to read them so far.

Thank you so much sir. Regards. Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 10, 2011, 03:46:30 PM
  Sri Sivaprakasam Pillai, one of the greatest devotee of Sri Bhagwan, is best known for the pualication of His Teachings under the title Nan Yar ? (Who Am I ? ) When the news of Sri Pillai's death in 1948 was brought to the notice of Sri Bhagwan remarked, "Sivaprakasam Sivaprakasamanar" meaning that he has become the light of Siva.

Sri Pillai says that when he approached Sri Bhagwan wishing to obtain His Grace and to redeem himself, with kind words Sri Bhagwan said to him that the meaning of the word 'I' is the one indestructible Reality which exists as Supreme Bliss, as Pure Knowledge. Although it appears within this body, it is different from the body. Sri Bhagwan said that if he desires to know it, he must get rid of the attachment that takes the body as 'I' and enquire ," Who am I ? "
( Based on a reading of The Power Of The Presence, Part One )

Thank you.
      Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 10, 2011, 04:58:13 PM



When M. Sivaprakasam Pillai approached Sri Bhagavan, He was in
mounam, silence, not as a penance, but just as He wanted to be
silent.  However, understanding Pillai's quest, He wrote the answers
for every question in either on sand or on a slate.  This was recorded
by Pillai and kept.  Later an essay version was done by Sri Bhagavan Himself.

Pillai had written the following poems on Sri Bhagavan:

1. Sri Ramana Charita Ahaval.*
2. Sri Ramana Anugraha Ahaval.
3. Sri Ramana Pada Maalai.
4. Sri Ramana Sarguru Maalai.
5. Sri Ramana Deva Maalai
6. Vachana Saram **
7. Vinnappam
8. Upadesam.

* - This was left incomplete after 647 lines.  Sri Sadhu Om had completed covering the stories of Golden Jubilee of Sri Bhagavan,
Sri Matrubhuteswara Linga Temple kumbabhishekam, Cow Lakshmi's
liberation, Sri Bhagavan's last days and Sri Bhagavan's Maha Nirvana.
Totally it came to 915 lines.

** This poem was brought amongst a sheaf of papers to Sri
Bhagavan, by one Manikkam Pillai, Sivaprakasam Pillai's disciple.
Sri Manikkam Pillai told Sri Bhagavan that his guru wanted to burn these papers after his liberation.  However, Sri Bhagavan said:
You can nevertheless show them to me.  And He took amongst the sheaf of papers, only this poem, and returned the rest to Sri
Manikkam Pilai.   



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 11, 2011, 07:41:06 AM
  Ribhu Gita is said to be the scripture for the one lying on death-bed. The chapter thirty six of this great scripture deals with the effacing of the mind by the conviction (BHAVA) of being the Undivided Absolute and destruction of ignorance and such by the conviction (BHAVA) of being the Undivided Brahman.

" If due to the originless tendencies of worldly existence,
The undivided, undifferentiated Knowledge does not prevail in the mind,
Even after constant inquiry,
One should resort to the bhava (conviction, attitude) that
All ever is Brahman, and That is myself, I am that Brahman, the undivided nature,
And persist in it until
All the delusion of thoughts of difference are destroyed
And, thereby, prevent the ideation of differences. "

Ch. 36, V-28, The Song of Ribhu

If due to tendencies (vasanas) accumulated birth after birth, mind is not able to internalise and go within and abide in the Self even after constant daily enquiry, one should resort to conviction that all ever is Brahman and that I am that Brahman and persist in that attitude  until all thoughts of difference are destroyed. Sri Bhagwan has also said that if one is not able to do Self Enquiry, one should practice what is best suited to him such as japa, worship or meditation on Mahavakyas such as ' I am Brahman ' etc.

However, as long as one has not realised his iedentity as the Brahman, ' I am Brahman ' is only a thought and, therefore, this meditation is objective where as Self Enquiry is subjective.   

Thank You,
     Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 11, 2011, 09:39:56 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes. Ribhu Gita is one of the most sublime scriptures recommended by Sri Bhagavan.  However, I do not understand how you can mention that it is recommended only for those who are lying in death bed.  Sri
Bhagavan recommended reading Ribhu Gita for everyone, at all times, whether one understands that or not. 



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 11, 2011, 10:29:15 AM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, I did not mean to say that Ribhu Gita is recommended for only those lying in death bed. I had read in a book by a devotee of Sri Bhagwan that the Ribh Gita is so pointed to Realization of Self or Brahman that it is fit for one lying in death bed. ( I do not exactly remember the name of the book.) I am aware that Sri Bhagwan has recommeded it for all at all times. Ji, yes, Ribhu Gita is one of our  most sublime Scripures. Thank you so much. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Om Hridayam on January 11, 2011, 12:21:57 PM
Is there a recommended English translation? There is one translated from the original Tamil by Dr. H. Ramamoorthy and Nome but I'm not sure about the quality of translation.
I have a slim pamphlet of Selections of the Ribhu Gita, but would like to read the whole thing. Is this a good translation?
Thanks
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 11, 2011, 12:38:36 PM



Dear Om Hridayam,

There are two English translations.  Both are excellent.  The one,
from original Tamizh, was the one recommended by Sri Bhagavan.
The other one is from Sanskrit original by Sri Lingeshwara Rao.  This is in some variation with the Tamizh version.  However, both can be
read.  The second one is also sold by Sri Ramanasramam.  The original Tamizh, by Ulaganatha Swamigal, is also available in Sri Ramanasramam.  The translation of Dr. Nome and Dr. H.
Ramamoorty was originally published by Society for Abidance
in Truth, California.  But the same copy is available in India in
Sri Ramanasramam.  This is printed in Bible-like think paper.     



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 11, 2011, 03:28:52 PM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, I have  English version of the Ribhu Gita which was translated by Dr. H. Ramamoorthy and Nome from the original Tamizh and which was published by Sri Ramanasramam  by the name of ' The Song of Ribhu ' in arrangement with the Society of Abidance in Truth, California, USA.
Dear sir, you have mentioned in your post that the translation of Ribhu Gita from the Sanskrit original by Sri Lingeshwara Rao is in variation with the one translated from the Tamizh original and that translation from the Tamizh original was recommended by Sri Bhagwan. I understand Sanskrit with a little difficulty. However, I had hoped to request the Asramam to send the English translation of the Ribhu Gita from the original Sanskrit. But now that you have informed that Sri Bhagwan recommended the translation from the Tamizh original, I feel that I should drop the idea. Sir, I still wish to Know which Ribhu Gita is orinal ? Tamizh version or the Sanskrit verson ? Thank you. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 11, 2011, 05:05:10 PM



Dear Anil,

The original is from Sanskrit. It is from Skandam, one of the 18 epics.
You may buy that book of Lingeshwara Rao also and read.  However,
what Sri Bhagavan recommended many devotees, starting from Sampurnamma, the kitchen assistant, was the Tamizh one done in
verses by Sri Ulaganatha Swamigal, who has incidentally done Viveka
Choodamani also in Tamizh verses.  His another name is Bhikshu
Sastrigal. When Sri Bhagavan wrote Vivekachodmani, in Tamizh prose [available in Collected Works], He has mentioned the original Tamizh verses of Sri Ulaganatha Swamigal.

One can read both the versions.  But there are variations in chapters.  Dr. Nome and Dr. H. Ramamoorthy have done English
[The Song of Ribhu] only from Tamizh version.  Verse to verse, the
book has been translated.



Arunachala Siva.     

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 12, 2011, 05:54:19 AM
  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, thank you so much for giving invaluable information on Ribhu Gita. Prior to this discussion on Ribhu Gita, I thought that the Ribhu Gitg is the divine utterances of the Sage Ribhu. You have mentioned in your post that it is from Skandam, one of the 18 epics. I think that you do not mean Skand Purana. I request you to kindly give some information in brief about Skanda and 18 epics. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 12, 2011, 08:31:17 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

This is to state with a little surprise that some one as great a devotee as Sri Sivaprakasam Pillai, who elicited epoch-making answers to his question on the nature of 'I' and who was responsible for publishing "Who Am I ?", the Magnum Opus of Sri Bhagwan, he should be afflicted with thoughts, such as burning sexual desire, troubled by suffering and anxiety for financial resources, as have been mentioned in the Power of The Presence and in Sri Osborne's Path of Self Realization.

He says that he wrote following three questions :
1. What should I do in this world so that no suffering approaches and bothers me ?
2. Can I marry the girl of my choice ? If not, why not ?
3. If yes, how am I to get the necessary financial resources ?
He says that he placed the sheet on which these questions were written in a Vinayaka temple with a plea to God that if these questions are not answered by Him, he will seek the help of Brahma Swami of Sri Arunachala. He did not get the reply, so he approached the Feet of Sri Bhagwan. After waiting for a few days, Sri Bhagwan remaining silent all the while, nevertheless, he felt as if  Sri Bhagwan is instructing him not to desire anything, and instead to make the expanding mind subside and to enquire into the Self and to abide as the Self. He says that Sri Bhagwan seemed to say that this alone is the right Path to attain and which is beneficial.

Regards,
   Anil   
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 12, 2011, 09:33:45 AM

[b

Dear Anil,

Yes. M. Sivaprakasam Pillai did not re-marry.  Nevertheless, sexual thoughts were obsessing him for long years.  Once when he approached Sri Bhagavan, with some sexual thoughts haunting him,
Sri Bhagavan told a dog which had come near with excreta on its mouth:  "If you come like this, you do not come here hereafter.  Leave this dirty habit."  Sivaprakasam Pillai understood immediately this chiding of the dog by Sri Bhagavan and then left the sexual thoughts thereafter.  He indicates this in his Sri Ramana Deva Maalai, Verse 16.

Sivaprakasam Pillai eventually merged with Sivam, and Sri Bhagavan confirmed this by saying after his liberation: Sivaparakasam Sivaprakasam aanar.  Sivaprakasam Pillai had
become the effulgence of Siva.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 13, 2011, 10:15:24 AM
There is no 'seer' apart from the Supreme Brahman.
There is nothing to be seen apart from the Supreme Brahman.
There is no 'I' apart from the Supreme Brahman.
There is no 'you' apart from the Supreme Brahman.
There is no one apart from the Supreme Brahman.
There is nothing apart from the Supreme Brahman.
All is the Supreme Brahman, and That am I.
By attaining such Knowledge of the Supreme, you yourself
become the Supreme.

17-17, Song of Ribhu

When a devotee said that Advaita aims at becoming one with God, Sri Bhagwan replied that there is no becoming one with God. The thinker is himself ever the Real, a fact which he ultimately realises.

Dear seekers, there is no becoming. Becoming implies ' I Am Not' and I shall be at a future date, where as I am assured of my existence Here and Now. Becoming implies present non-being which is an absurdity. Thank you. Anil
    (Posted from a train by a mobile Phone) 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 13, 2011, 10:47:23 AM



Dear Anil,

"Becoming" is felt only due to "suttarivu" - objective consciousness.
The objective consciousness makes one feel separate as I and then
there is You and He.  I want to become You, is the objective knowledge.

Muruganar says in Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 645:

The purport of the scriptures that drum into you, "Know the truth of
yourself." is only the elimination of the false knowledge that knows
the non-Self objectively.  Why?  Because one's truth, "I exist",
shines like the sun within everyone.   

Muruganar adds his own comments here:  Know that when the false suttarivu [suttu = to point out as something different], is eliminated, true Jnana will spontaneously shine forth.

Sri Ramana Puranam says:

Bhagavan:

When the "I" thought does not arise,
and I unite as pure being with Him,
He remains merged with me,
shining out as my very own fullness.
However, the very moment
I raise my head [thinking "I"],
to perceive his ancient form
he sees my oddness, scorns me,
and conceals himself from me.

[Tr. David Godman]



Arunachala Siva.   
     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 13, 2011, 11:55:14 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

That is a very nice and very,very important post for me. " one's truth ' I exist ' shines like the sun within everyone." Bliss surges even contemplating upon the Existence that is 'I'. I wish to say a few words on this post when I reach home. Thank you so much sir. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 14, 2011, 10:38:40 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Suttarivu- objective consciousness or relative consciousness that makes one feel separate first as ‘I’ and then as you and he
Suttu- to point out as something different
From the above, it follows that suttarivu is the false knowledge of differentiation on the substratum of the Pure Knowledge in which there is no differentiation and utterly no other whatever.

Ji, yes, “ I want to become one with God is an objective knowledge in which there is a subject ‘I’ who wants to know the object God. This is gross ignorance and sheer absurdity.
Ji, “when I-thought does not arise and I unite as pure being with Him, shining out as my own being”.

May I say that the very moment suttarivu arises I see myself separated from God and then I do not see Him shining out as my own being. God scorns me at this pathetic oddness and conceals Himself from me ?

There is no becoming.
There is only Be-ing.
Becoming implies that I am not at this moment right now and I shall ‘be’ at some time in the future. Sometimes I shall be and sometimes not.which is contrary to even our empirical experience. There can be no denying our existence ever and becoming implies non-being or non-existence in the present which is absurd to say the least.

Dear sir, therefore, it follows:
Eliminate ‘suttarivu’.
‘Summa Iru’ and experience THAT, FULLNESS OF CONSCIOUSNESS.

THIS IS ARUNACHL SAMPRADAYAM.

Thank you so much, Sir.

                                                                                                      Regards
                                                                                                         Anil
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 14, 2011, 01:38:49 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  Muruganar says in Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 951:

Will those Jnanis who have attained the experience of the Self,
the fullness, be aware of another experience that exists apart from
It?  Their supreme bliss, which shines without "another", excelling
all else, it atita [transcendent].  How, therefore, can it be possible
for the fragmented minds of others, who delude themselves and
suffer by regarding, through suttarivu, the false world as real, to think of It [the Supreme Bliss of Jnana] as having a specific nature?  [Tr. David Godman].

This is also described in ULLadu Narpadu, Verse 31, by Sri Bhagavan.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 14, 2011, 04:33:57 PM
"Without the shining light of Grace, what can the insignificant jivas do to escape from the net of delusion and gain clarity ?" 

  Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, I do not know whether you have the priceless diary and calender brought out by Sri Ramamasramam for the year, 2011. The verse cited above is Verse no. 634, Guru Vachaka Kovai and has been taken here from its leaf (28 July). Every leaf of the diary contains an important verse from GVK besides mind stilling photographs of Sri Bhagwan. But the verses printed in the diary are slightly different in structure from the verses in GVK edited by Sri David Godman. I do not know from which edition they have been taken. Thank you. Regards. Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 15, 2011, 09:49:08 AM



Dear Anil,

I got the Diary 2011 and monthly calendar from Sri Ramanasramam,
through post only since I could not visit the Asramam, after Sept.
2010.  I also found that the translations of GVK are not Godman's.
I also checked up with translation of select verses by Prof. K. Swaminathan. [The Garland of Guru's Sayings, 1996 reprint].  It is
also not of Swaminathan's.  Perhaps, the Asramam might have used
the translation of some other persons, specially for the purpose.

For example, GVK Verse 634, that you have mentioned,

Prof. K. Swaminathan  has translated it as:

Not at all by one's own effort,
But by the light of Grace alone,
Pure gift of God supreme, can one
Behold the light that shines in darkness,
The bliss of being Awareness true,
Even mid the darkness of the world.

[Siva, the Lord who dances in darkest midnight, stands for the
Awareness which sees both light and its absence.]

David Godman translates as under:

In this world, which associates with the Jiva in the state of ignorance, it is quite impossible, except through God's pure light
of grace, for the deluded Jiva to experience the bliss of reality,
the being-consciousness that shines even in the state of darkeness
[sleep].

Muruganar's own comments for the verse:

There can be darshan of reality without grace.  Bhagavan has said
[in Atma Vidya Kirtanam] 'Grace too is necessary'.  Those  who think
that Jnana can be attained by their own might will not attain it until they take refuge in the might of grace.

I am not sure, perhaps, this could also be the translation of Michael
James. 



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 15, 2011, 10:05:20 AM
Dear Seekers and Devotees,

Sri Bhagwan says that the Self is only one. If limited it is the ego. If unlimited it is Infinite and is the Reality. The import and the significance of this statement of Sri Bhagwan needs to be traced and understood.

Sri Bhagwan says that the Reality is simply the loss of the ego. When the search light of the enquiry is focused on it, it can take subtler forms to escape the strangle-hold of the enquiry and try to be elusive. Sri Bhagwan says that the tenacious ego can be destroyed only by seeking its identity. What is it ? WhoDear Seekers a am I ? Whence am I ? When attention is thus focused on the ego, it being no entity, being spurious and rather phantom-like, it will take to flight. It will simply vanish and the Reality will shine forth by Itself. This is the Straight Path. This is the Direct Method. All other methods are done only retaining the ego. A thief made a police man to catch that very thief. It will pretend to catch but the endeavour is not likely to succeed. In those paths the seekers may get lost in the streets and by-lanes with so many nagging doubts and questions and Sri Bhagwan says that the eternal question will still remain to be finally tackled, ego still waxing eloquent.

BUT IN ATMAVICHARA ( SELF ENQUIRY ) THE FINAL QUESTION IS THE ONLY ONE AND IT IS RAISED FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

Sri Bhagwan says that there can be no greater mystery than this that we ourselves are the Reality, we seek to gain the Reality. It is ridiculous.

Sri Bhagwan : A day will dawn when you will yourself laugh at your past efforts. That which will be on the day you laugh is also here and now.
Devotee : So it is a great game of pretending ?
Sri Bhagwan : Yes. In Yoga Vasishtha it is said, “ What is Real is hidden from us, but what is false, is revealed as true. We are actually experiencing the Reality only; still, we do not know it. IS IT NOT A WONDER OF WONDERS ?
                                                                      Talks, no. 146

                                                                                                     Thank You,
                                                                                                          Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 15, 2011, 10:12:12 AM
In the post above, "Dear Seekers" got mixed up with 'Who am I ?' by posting error. Kindly read accordingly.
                                                                                                               Thank You,
                                                                                                                  Anil         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 15, 2011, 01:04:23 PM



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan says in Verse 18 of Upadesa Saram:

Our mind is only a multitude of thoughts.  Of all the countless
thoughts that are formed in our mind, the thought "I" alone is the
root [the base or foundation].  Therefore, what is called 'mind/
is in essence just this root thought "I".

Further Sri Bhagavan says in Verses 17 and 20 of Upadesa Saram:

When we scrutinize the form of our mind without forgetfulness
i.e. interruption caused either by sleep or by thinking other thoughts,
we will discover that there is no such thing as 'mind' [separate from
or other than our fundamental consciousness 'I am'].  For everyone,
this is the direct path [the direct means to experience true self-
knowledge.]

*

In the place, the state of clear self knowledge, where 'I' our mind
or spurious individual consciousness merges [by thus scrutinizing
its own form], the one [Real Being-Consciousness] appears spontaneously as "I-I".  That itself is the whole unlimited Reality.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 15, 2011, 02:17:34 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Very aptly you have said that if the form of the mind is scrutinized without interruption, it is found that there is no mind apart from our fundamental consciousness "I Am".

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan has said 'witness' implies 'abhasa' or reflection and, therefore, is the function of the mind. Hence,Pure Mind or the Sudha Mind is conceded for the sake of  argument. In Truth there is no such entity as the mind apart from the Self or our fundamental consciousness "I Am". Thank you so much sir.

                 Regards,
                     Anil
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 15, 2011, 03:42:02 PM
The beginning, the middle, the end, he, you, this, and all such
Are like the horns of a hare.
All objects in the past, future, and the present
Are like the horns of a hare.
The gross body one loves, the subtle body, and the causal body
Are all ever like the horns of a hare.
Action, achievement, and every thing else-
All-are ever like the horns of a hare.

                                                                Ch.5,V-4, Song of Ribhu


The mind it is that is ever the illusion.
Mind is akin to a web of wizardry.
The mind it is that is the son of a barren woman.
Mind itself is never existent at all.
As there is no mind, there is none of sankalpa and such.
As there is no mind, there is no guru or disciple.
As there is no mind, there is no world or souls.
All that is filled with the mind is of the nature of Brahman.

                                                                 Ch.5, V-36, Song of Ribhu


Tranquility and practice are of the nature of the mind.
The listening that is achieved is of the nature of the mind.
The inward reflection, too, is of the nature of the mind.
Meditation and such are of the nature of the mind.
As the mind itself, which is the base for these, is non-existent,
Where can these that are said to be its nature be ?
The peaceful Supreme Brahman is the only Reality,
And it is, indeed, ever your true nature.

                                                                 Ch. 29, V-12, Song of Ribhu

                                                                            Thank You,
                                                                                Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 15, 2011, 05:24:39 PM



Dear Anil,

Suddha Manas or Pure Mind is like a white crystal.  It is simply
the Self.  Naan has become Thaan. It simply reflects the emotions
of devotees.  If a red rose is brought behind, white crystal will show up as red crystal and so on.

Witness implies a witnesser and the witnessed.  It is dual.  It is abhasa.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 15, 2011, 06:12:31 PM
Ji. Yes. Pure Mind or Sudha Mind is simply and verily  the Self. All is Brahman. Will you kindly explain 'thaan'. Thank you so much sir. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 16, 2011, 07:34:36 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir, an urge arose within me to read the verse of GVK in which the Realised Poet Sri Muruganar sings, "Lord, all is your jugglerry". Will you kimdly mention the verse no. ? Thank you sir. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 16, 2011, 08:33:56 AM



Dear Anil,

In Tamizh, there are two words, Naan is 'I'.  Thaan  is the Self or
"I-I".  This is first used by Sri Bhagavan in Who am I? - Naan Yaar.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 16, 2011, 09:20:39 AM



Dear Anil,

I am not able to readily lay my hands on the verse where Muruganar
says:  "Lord, it is all your jugglery!"

However, Muruganar has said about siddhis, jugglery and conjuror's
tricks etc., in his verses 222 to 224 in Guru Vachaka Kovai.   Of these,
two verses are from Bhagavan Himself.

Bhagavan 7:

Tranquillity of mind is alone the liberation that is ever attained.
This being so, pray tell, how can those who set their mind on siddhis,
which cannot be gained without mental movement, become immersed
in the bliss of liberation, that is free from the perturbation of mind?

Verse 224a: [added by Sri Bhagavan]:

My son, even a conjuror, when he deludes the world does not succumb to the illusion himself, but the siddha first deludes
himself, then foists his delusion upon the world.  What a wonder is this!



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 16, 2011, 10:25:05 AM
Dear Seekers and Devotees,

Verse 2-16 of Srimad Bhagvad Gita declares, ‘ Nasato vidyate bhavo nabhavo vidyate satah’ or the unreal has no existence and the Real no non-existence.

Yoga Vasishta says, “What is real is hidden from us, but what is false is revealed as true.”

Sri Bhagwan asks, “ We are all along experiencing the Reality, still we do not know it. Is this not a wonder ?

Yes, mind-body, world, this and that are seen, thought and acted upon. But all these are mere appearances on the substratum or the screen of the Reality. All empirical knowledge and experiences pertain to the unreal which has no existence or being. Even appearances are not apart from the Reality. Even when we perceive each other, the body-mind of each other is only perceived. The Reality behind it, the Self is hidden and not perceived. Sri Bhagwan asks, “ Is this not a wonder ?”

Sri S.S. Cohen, another great devotee of Sri Bhagwan, has explained this very beautifully with the simile of an actor in his ‘ Reflection on Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi’. I do not exactly remember the name of the actor and the roles he used to explain. But it is like this :

Suppose Sri Mohan is an actor in a play. Once he plays the role of a prince, once of a lover, once of an emperor, and once of a dacoit or a comedian. All these impersonations are unreal characters or entities, yet we perceive all these unreal entities alone on the stage and not their substratum, Sri Mohan, notwithstanding his being the only real presence, his being the only reality. Similarly, though the Reality is ever present as the seer and actor of all phenomena, like Sri Mohan on the stage, we, however, perceive only that which does not exist, namely the phenomena, the prince, the lover, the emperor, etc.
The body and the world etc. no more exist than the prince, the lover etc on the stage. Perceiving that which does not exist and remaining blind, oblivious and ignorant of what really exists is the order of the day and cause of all miseries and misfortunes whatever.
Sri Bhagwan asks, “ Is this not a wonder ?“

Sri Cohen observes that it is the case of  an unconscious mass blindness, a mass hypnosis, not to see Sri Mohan who stands all the while on the stage before our eyes but to  see and believe in the reality of the prince, the lover, dacoit, etc who are not real at all.     
                                                                   ( The name of the actor and roles changed )

                                                                                            Thank You,
                                                                                                 Anil         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 16, 2011, 11:25:31 AM



Dear Anil,

Very nice.  Our roles are different for each one.  But the Self is the same for everyone.  Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman used to narrate this story.  There was a person who was playing the role of Ravan
in Ramayana drama.  People used to curse him, whenever he appeared in the stage.  Some even used to throw stones and chappals at him. But in reality, he is a Sattvic person.  One day, when some such members of the audience, who had hated Ravan, went to the green room to continue their assaults, they found this Ravan character and Rama character were sitting before each other and sipping cups of tea!  Seeing the angry crowd, the Rama actor said:  Why are you coming here and continuing your hatred.  The play is over.  In fact, in reality, he is more Sattvic than me in life!  The audience became dumbfounded.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 16, 2011, 03:01:18 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

So, The Self is ‘Thaan in Tamizh’ and Sri Bhagwan originally used the Word in Naan Yaar for the Self. Thank you so much for conveying the meaning of key words like ‘Summa Iru’, ‘Suttarivu’, ‘Thaan’, etc. (w.r.t your post, Re-441)

Dear sir, as Sri Bhagwan has repeatedly warned His devotees and earnest seekers against the acquisition of dark powers, we should never nurture any desire for sidhis and clairvoyance etc. Even if they come to one in course of his sadhana, he should outright
reject it. If acquired, they are bound to prove retrogressive in sadhana. (w.r.t. your post, re-442)

Thank you so much, sir.

                                                                                                Regards,
                                                                                                   Anil

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 16, 2011, 03:08:59 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Like the actor playing the role of Ravana is hated and assaulted, treating him as if he is the real Ravana, likewise, we also take the world to be real and behave as if this is our permanent blissful abode in which we should do all we can to add to our pleasures or to remove the miseries.

Dear sir, you have mentioned Sri Brahmasri Nochur Venkatraman a few times in your posts. I do not know him. Was he a devotee of Sri Bhagwan ?

Thank you so much, sir.

                                                                                         Regards,
                                                                                            Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 16, 2011, 04:57:54 PM



Dear Anil,

Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman is a Palakkad Brahmin, born in the
village of Nochur near Palakkad.  He is now about 35 years old, married and has a male child by name Sadasiva. He studied Sanskrit in his post graduation with special subject of Vedanta in Kaladi Sanskrit University.  He studied Vedanta thoroughly and then tried his life in Sri Ramakrishna Math and a few other Maths.  His deep insights about Advaita finally took him to Sri Bhagavan.  However, right from his very young age, he was meeting Muruganar, Kunju Swami and Kanakammal and others.   He took great interest in Atma Vichara method and studied almost all the works of Sri Bhagavan, His life story, conversations, reminiscences etc.,   And started prayoham [practice] of atma vichara and succeeded also.  He then took up discourses on Sri Bhagavan on His ULLadu Narpadu, general
life and teachings etc.,  He is incidentally an authority on Srimad
Bhagavatam and Ramayanam and Mahabharata.  His popularity grew and he conducts now discourses in Coimbatore, Palakkad, Tirupur,
Chennai, Bangalore, Mumbai, and even at Hardwar and Brindavan.

He has taken up a house in Tiruvannamalai.  His family lives there.
He when free comes to Tiruvannamalai but definitely to Jayanti,
Aradhana and other important days.  He has given discourse on ULLadu Narpadu in Tiruvannamalai itself.  He has recently given a
4 hour discourse inside the Asramam on Sri Ramana Gita, Hrudya
Vidya.  The Asramam authorities respect him as a living representative of Ramana teachings.  The eldest of the brothers,
Sri Ganesan only introduced him and his services to Asramam.
His CD [audio] - 6 of them covers ULLadu Narpadu for about 36 hours!  There are also his cassettes on Srimad Bhagavad Gita,
Hrudaya Vidya, Udhhava Gita and other such important scriptures.
Recently he has made a biography of Sri Bhagavan in Malayalam, which is his mother tongue.  When he was hardly 25 or so, he took
Sri Bhagavan as his guru and has written Sanskrit slokas praising Sri
Bhagavan. 

I heard his discourse on Sri Dakshinamurty Stotram, in Bangalore in
2009 which ran for 7 days totally covering 7 hours.   He has also given
discourse on Sri Sankara Vijayam last year.  But I could not go.

He speaks Tamizh, Malayalam, Sanskrit and Hindi.  I first met him
in Asramam dining hall.  Then I met him once more during one of my visits to Asramam. 

He has said:  ULLadu Narpadu is THE SCRIPTURE ON ATMA VICHARA.  Srimad Bhagavatam is nothing but a detailed commentary
on ULLadu Narpadu.   Hrudaya Vidya was hidden in Upanishads. Sri
Bhagavan brought it to light.

He wears only a dhoti and an upper cloth.  He profusely quotes from
Sri Sankara to explain Sri Bhagavan's teachings. He says that Sri
Sankara's Nirvana Shatkam is in poetry and Naan Yaar is in prose.
The contents are only the same.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 17, 2011, 08:57:59 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I have a deep feeling and absolute faith that Sri Bhagwan's Grace alone enabled me to tread the Path of Atma Vichara and Devotion as shown by Him. I have now learnt from you about  Sri Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman who is such a great interpreter of Sri Bhagwan's Teaching in general and a great commentator  on Atma Vichara in particular. I am a bit dismayed that I did not know anything about him.

THE ULLADU NARPADU IS THE SCRIPURE ON ATMA VICHARA. The ULLadu Narpadu, Upadesa Saram and 'Who Am I ?' together constitute the Core of the Vedanta and spirituality.

Dear sir, I feel that THE  GREAT DIVINE PURPOSE OF SRI BHAGWAN'S ADVENT was to reveal the great secret of ATMA VICHARA and HRIDAY VIDYA which were hidden in Upanishads. Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
    Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 17, 2011, 09:07:01 AM



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan's avatara is after Skanda and Tiru Jnana Sambandhar.
Skanda took birth from Siva's third eye, to destroy the three demons.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar - he had no enemies to destroy.  But he took
birth to spread bhakti and bring back the Saivites who were converted
to Jainism, back to Saivism.  Sri Bhagavan's avatara, is only for spreading Jnana and grace people in Jnana Marga.

Once there was some problem and some devotees were criticizing
certain other groups.  The devotees went and told Sri Bhagavan to
punish the erring devotees.  Sri Bhagavan said:  I have come here only to grace.  If I start punishing people, then not even a crow would fly over this Asramam.

He is Love,  He is Grace, He is Jnana.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 17, 2011, 04:24:21 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Skanda took birth from Siva’s Third Eye to destroy the three terrible demons. Lord Budha was born to rid the people, society and Sanatan Dharma of the strangle-hold of the pernicious heresy and superstitious beliefs. Tiru Jnana Sambandhar took birth to spread Bhakti and restore Saivism back from Jainism. Sri Adi Sankara was born to restore the glory of the Sanatan Dharama.

Sri Bhagwan’s Avatara, as the Acme of Guruhood is to rid the modern man and the society of the rampant materialism, in which we have sunk deep, by declaring to the world and enjoining the secret and Straight Path of Atma Vichara and Hriday Vidya hither to hidden in the Great Upanishads. Besides, He gave twin axes of Atma Vichara “Who Am I ?”  and “Whence Am I ?” to cut off the ego to herald the Blissful Life of the Spirit.

When invoked with love and devotion, He reveals as Pure Existence and Pure Knowledge. ” He is Pure Love-He is pure Bliss-embodied. HE IS ‘I AM’ WITHIN THE INNERMOST RECESS OF HEARTS OF ALL-From Sri Vishnu downwards.

Thank you so much, sir.

                                                                                                                        Regards,
                                                                                                                           Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 18, 2011, 09:19:39 AM
When the jiva, turning back and returning along the way it came, enters the source, it will drown completely in its intrinsic nature and, in doing so, as the bliss of its own nature manifests clearly within its own understanding, it will abide motionless in that state.
                                                              V-632, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

Dear Devotees and Seekers,

Our intrinsic nature is Sat, Chit, Ananda-Sacchidananda. How foolish of us that being intrinsically Sacchidananda, we find ourselves trapped in circumstances in which we mistake asat to be Sat, relative consciousness to be Chit, and pleasure-sorrow cycle to be Ananda ! Result-we are anguished and unhappy, never satiated and always seeking, seeking and seeking little realizing what we are seeking at all.

Dear seekers, this ceaseless seeking will go on unchecked until first we stand and stare (as the great nature poet Sri Wordsworth sang) and finally start seeking THAT, our REAL IDENTITY and finding the Source , merge into It, be IT.

Sri Bhagwan says that the cause of all misery and evil is our forgetfulness of the way we came to this lot from the Original Abode. In this context, Sri Bhagwan has narrated a great story. Sri Bhagwan came with a Purpose and divinely ordained events and circumstances kept on presenting themselves in and around Sri Bhagwan. He often used these to impart His Teaching and to drive the point home to His devotees.

Story is as follows:

“  In the hall where Bhagwan used to give darshan there was a chimney. The chimney was closed on all sides with steel mesh, except at the bottom. One day, a beautiful small bird somehow entered it and became trapped inside this chimney. The bird found itself trapped in conditions diametrically opposed to its natural environment: the vast space where it could fly freely. From the moment it entered the chimney, it was frantically struggling to escape, but all its efforts proved futile. Why ? Because, forgetting the way it came, it was repeatedly trying to escape through all the closed roots. Sri Bhagwan took this opportunity to reveal a great truth.

The bird has given up the all-pervasive space, its natural place of residence. It has been caught in this limited space, which is opposed to its nature. Not knowing how to escape from this prison, it is agitated and afraid. Like this bird, jives have also given up their natural place of residence, the vast space of consciousness. Through the delusion of ignorance they have become trapped in the prison of the body. Without knowing how to escape, they are tormented by various afflictions. The ceaseless efforts of this bird to reach its natural place of residence are unsuccessful because they are directed upwards, the way of bondage, instead of downwards, the way it came. Similarly, the reason why the jiva’s ceaseless efforts to attain freedom are unsuccessful is because they too are directed outwards, the way of bondage, instead of inwards, the way they came. The natural tendency of the bird to go upwards asserts itself even in its attempts for freedom. Likewise, the natural tendency of jivas to roam outwards asserts itself even in their attempts at liberation. This is the jiva’s natural tendency. If, through true discrimination and awareness, the jiva is made to turn back from outward-directed sight to inward sight, and if it remains fixed there, it is certain that it would attain liberation in an instant. “
( The above story, as narrated by Sri Bhagwan, I felt, is so powerful and presented so beautifully in GVK edited by Sri David Godman on p-268 that I decided to present it to you as it is there.)

Dear seekers, there is no alternative like the bird. We will one day have to curb our natural tendency and propensity to seek happiness outside of ourselves. All we have to do is to seek within and to be.

                                                                                                Thank You,
                                                                                                     Anil       
     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 18, 2011, 09:30:54 AM



Sri Bhagavan says in Who am I?

Qn. No. 16:

What is the nature of the Self?

Answer:

What exists in truth is the Self alone.  The world, the jiva and God
are appearances in it.  Like silver in mother-of-pearl, these three
appear at the same time, and disappear at the same time. 

The Self is that where there is absolutely no 'I'-thought.  This is
called Silence.  The Self itself is the world, the Self itself is the 'I',
the Self itself is God.  All is Siva, the Self.

The insect caught up in the chimney has to get back from the hole
from which it had entered. The hole is the Source.  We have to get back our redemption from the Source, from which the ego sprouted.

Once there was some old man who was often falling into sleep,
when he was in the hall.  The attendant was trying to wake him up.  Sri Bhagavan said:  He is doing the work for what he had come.  You do your work for what you have come.  Vandha Velaiyai Paar.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 18, 2011, 03:47:49 PM
Sri Bhagwan said :

“ The natural tendency of the jivas to roam outwards asserts itself even in their attempts at liberation. “

Why is our natural tendency is to roam outwards while our Truth lies inward ? Because of the old habits formed in innumerable births. This habit of looking outward is so deep rooted that it has become our natural tendency to hold to the external world.

Ego I cannot survive without holding this and that object. Our whole worldly life is objective only. All thoughts, knowledge, actions, hopes, joys, sorrows, aspirations etc. pertain to objects, to not-Self and never to the subject himself, knower of them all. Even all our questions and answers are concerned with the objects only. We are so falsely assured of our identity that it never occurs to us to question the subject himself. This tendency, indeed, is now so ingrained in our psyche that even when we raise “Who am I ?“ question, attention is not on ‘I’, the subject, but on objects outside of ourselves. The ego ‘I’ cannot survive without holding a form. It cannot leave a form or an object without catching hold of the other. And any thought, anything, other than the subject is a form or an object.

Sri Bhagwan says that this tendency asserts itself even in our attempts at liberation. Even seeking one’s own Self begins outside of oneself. Only gradually a seeker understands that what he seeks , in Truth, is himself.       

                                                                               Thank You,
                                                                                    Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 19, 2011, 08:32:16 AM
All that is, is only Silence. The purport and significance of this statement is that there is nothing to be learnt, discussed and concluded. We all know “I Am.” But ‘I’ is mistaken to be the body. This is because ‘I’ arises from the Absolute and gives rise to budhi (intellect) in which ‘I’ looks the size and shape of the body.

Brahman→aham (I-I)→budhi (intellect)

Sri Bhagwan asks, “How can such budhi crossing over aham discover Brahman ? it is impossible. Just get over the false conception of the ‘I ’being the body. Discover to whom the thoughts arise. If the present ‘I’-ness vanishes, the discovery is complete. What remains over is the Self.”
                                                        Talks, no. 54

If  “I am“ is the Reality, indeed, there is nothing to be learnt, discussed and concluded. ‘I am’ is the conclusion. The significance of ‘I am’ is Silence. ‘I am’ is HERE and NOW. Isn’t it ? When I say I am Anil, I move away from ‘I am’ to ‘I am Anil’ although ‘I am’ is ever there whether there is a thought or not. Anil is not in the HERE and NOW. It is a movement away from ‘I am’. Whenever a thought rises due to attention paid to that particular thought, there is a movement away from the Reality of ‘I am’ , indeed, from HERE and NOW to objects. It is a great irony that we cannot be in the HERE and NOW. So, we do sadhana. We practice. For what ? To be in the HERE and NOW.   

                                                                           Thank You,
                                                                               Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 19, 2011, 09:09:00 AM



Dear Anil,

Akhilandamma was serving Sri Bhagavan, food for long time in
Virupaksha Cave and Skandasramam.  She is from Desur near
Tiruvannamalai.  It is she who brought Mastan Swami also to
Sri Bhagavan.

Akhilandamma one day asked Sri Bhagavan to give her some upadesa. Sri Bhagavan smiled and said:  "What upadesam?
Pray: Give mySelf to me, Ennaiye Enakku Kodu.

One has to only pray to God to give Him to the praying devotee.
That is all.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 19, 2011, 03:05:10 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji, yes. I am cent percent certain that Smt. Akhilandmma was given a very, very effective Upadesa by Sri Bhagwan. I do not know whether she followed it or not.

Kindly explain, “Ennaiya Enakku Kodu.”

Who is Sri Mastan Swami ? I have heard his name a few times also.

 Thank you so much.

                                                                                               Regards,
                                                                                                  Anil 


Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 19, 2011, 03:06:54 PM
Verse 19, The Crown Jewel of Discrimination ( Vivek Chudamani ), describes four essential qualifications  for Self Knowledge. ‘Nityanitya-Vastu- Viveka’ is the first qualification, according to the Verse. Verse 20 states that the certainty that the Brahman is the Reality and the Jagat ( the world ) is mithya is called Nityanitya-Vastu-Viveka.

Sri Bhagwan says that the Acharya has also that the world is mithya if seen apart from the Brahman.

Chapter 13 of the Srimad Bhagvad Gita deals with the discrimination between ksetra (body-mind and the world) and Ksetrajna (the Spirit).

The body is an adjunct but is mistaken as one with the Self through identification arising from ignorance. Jnana consists in removal of this ignorance through discrimination and the recognition of the unity of the jivas with the Brahman. This, in brief, is the gist of Ch13 of  Srimad Bhagvad Gita. In this context, three Verses from this very Chapter are cited as below :

This body, O son of Kunti, is called the Ksetra, the field. He who knows it (as his property) is the Ksetrajna or the Spirit who knows the field. So say those versed in this subject.
                                                                                     Ch.13, Verse-1

Know Me, O scion of the Bharata race, to be the Ksetrajna (the Spirit) in all Ksetras (Bodies). The knowledge of the distinction between Ksetra and Ksetrajna alone is real knowledge according to Me.
                                                                                      Ch 13, Verse-2

Whoever perceives by spiritual insight the distinction between Ksetra (Nature) and Ksetrajna (Spirit) as also the freedom of the Spirit from the hold of Nature, they reach the Supreme.
                                                                                        Ch 13, Verse-34

By Guru’s Grace, the above Sublime Verses can acquire inexplicable luminosity and are lighted.   
 
                                                                                                                  Thank You,
                                                                                                                       Anil
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 19, 2011, 03:13:44 PM
The fourth line of the Re-457 should read " Sri Bhagwan says that the Acharya has also said that the world is mithya if seen apart from the Brahman ".Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 19, 2011, 03:38:49 PM



Dear Anil,

Ennaiye means my Self.  Enakku means to me.  Kodu means Give.
Give my Self to me.

Mastan Swami was a Moslem.  He was born in the same village
of Desur to which Akhilandamma was hailing from.  He though
a Moslem, took interest in praying to Siva, applying vibhuti and singing songs of Siddhars and Tamizh Saiva Saints.  One day,
Akhilandamma asked him to come with her to meet Sri Bhagavan,
in Virupaksha Cave.  Perhaps time had come to get a suitable Guru.
He came and stood before Sri Bhagavan.  Sri Bhagavan gazed at him
for a long time.  Mastan stood there speechless, for about 6 to 7
hours, enjoying the bliss. His was a rare case, where the first darshan of Sri Bhagavan was itself sufficient to attain self realization. 

Mastan was a weaver.  He used to bring codpieces woven by him to
Sri Bhagavan.   When he attained vidheha kaivalyam, Sri Bhagavan
asked his people to build a Samadhi.  This Samadhi is said to be in
Desur, about 35 kms. from Tiruvannamalai.  He has written a few verses on Sri Bhagavan.  His story is available in David Godman's
3-parts book, the Power of the Presence.



Arunachala Siva.
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 20, 2011, 08:09:56 AM
 “Not to allow any thought to arise is mauna”
                                    Sri Mastan Swami

           

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for pointing out that Sri Mastan’s Swami is included in The Power Of The Presence. Yes, I read the fascinating story about Sri Swami in the Part Three of this invaluable book.

Sri Mastan Swami was a very ripe soul. The manner in which Sri Bhagwan laid down in the minutest detail to be followed the rites in the construction of his Samadhi should leave no one in any doubt about his State. Sri David Godman observes that in his knowledge, Sri Bhagwan ordered this type of samadhi for the Mother, Lakshmi the cow, and Sri Mastan. Since Sri bhagwan publicly declared that the first two realized the Self, one can make a strong case for saying that Sri Mastan also realized the Self at the time of his passing away.

I also read in it the mysterious arrival of a golden mongoose while Sri Bhagwan was living at Skandashram. It is reported that it even sat on Sri Bhagwan’s lap for a while.
The book says that Sri Bhagwan rebuked Sri Perumal Swami when he remarked that Sri Mastan Swami should have  caught the mongoose so that it could be domesticated and kept as a pet. Sri Bhagwan said that it was a sage of Sri Arunachala who took on this form to visit Him.

Thank you so much sir.

                                                                                        Regards,
                                                                                           Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 20, 2011, 08:45:13 AM



Dear Anil,

Mastan Swami's greatness will be further known by the following
facts:

1. Sri Bhagavan sent Kunju Swami, with stocks of camphor and vibhuti for Samadhi purposes and also told him about the samadhi
construction details to him as Tirumandiram - X Book of Saiva Canon.

2. The village which had a large Jain population, from this community, one gentleman provided funds for samadhi construction.

3. The local temple offered their palanquin to carry Mastan's body
to the samadhi site. 

4. People from all religions and castes joined the Annadhanam,
feast, after samadhi construction.

5. Sri Mastan had a vision that Apeetakuchamba, the consort of
Arunachaleswara, was calling him and escorting him to Siva's
abode.

*

Mastan did not write any poems on Sri Bhagavan, as mentioned
by me earlier.  This is wrong.    However, one Sambandan, Mastan's disciple had written some 200 verses on Sri Bhagavan and also some verses about teachings of Sri Bhagavan and Mastan.

I am not sure whether these are printed and published by Sri Ramanasramam.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 20, 2011, 01:32:39 PM
“ Please tell me some story about the glory of our Master. Tell me everything he has said during the time I was not with him. To me, every word Bhagwan speaks is holy. The words that come out of his holy mouth are so powerful, merely listening to them can give liberation to the ripe souls. “
                                           Sri Mastan Swami ( Taken from the Power of the Presence )

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Devotee of devotees, Sri Mastan Swami’s greatness is obvious. This is beyond argument. I have also noted that he was born in 1878 and passed away in 1931. So, he shed his body  at a fairly young age of  53 years.

The book says that Smt. Akhlandamma with Sri Swami opened a Math in their village, Desur and named it Ramanananda Mathalayam. The book also reports that when a new building was constructed on the north side of the Math with the help of the money contributed by a local man named Sri Nandagopal Mudaliar, a plaque was placed on the wall stating  the name and acknowledging the contribution by the local man. Sri Mastan was not happy with this plaque. He did not want to live in a place that had a name other than Sri Bhagwan’s name written on the wall !  This plaque so offended him that he decided to leave the place !

 Thank you so much sir.
                                                                                           
                                                                                            Regards,
                                                                                               Anil   

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 20, 2011, 01:59:10 PM
In my view, attention and thoughts are the key words in Atma Vichara or Self-Enquiry.
I feel it is very important to understand these two terms, their vastu ( the substance ) and their nature etc.

What is a thought ?

What is attention ? 

Anyone may kindly share their knowledge and opinions with regard to these two key words in Self- Enquiry.

                                                                                                Thank You,
                                                                                                    Anil 
                                                                             
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 20, 2011, 02:25:20 PM



Dear Anil,

The Math in Desur is called Sri Ramana Matalayam.  This is the first
Ramana Centre outside Tiruvannamalai, though today, we have got
Centres in Canada to Australia.

Thought is the form of mind.  Any simple movement of mind is thought.  Right from basic thought like I should take a glass of water, all are mind's movements.  These are all based on I-thought.

Attention is sraddha in Sanskrit.  It is pointed interest towards the
Self on the right side of the chest, for beginners and seeing the Self in all beings at the end.  This is the way  to divert the mind from
other thoughts.




Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on January 20, 2011, 05:22:33 PM
Attention is grace, a channel to direct energy, it is you yourself. Attention dwells on itself and transcends itself. This is the mechanism.

A thought is a form of energy.

A thought control process table:

Uncontrolled chatter: "I should get a doorbell..."

Slowly comes to: "I should get a do..."

After some practice: "I should get..."
"I should..."

Nearly controllable: " ..??? " - this is when a pressure of thought is seen before it has formed into a special form.

Perfect control: " " - no thought pressure at all - clear surface mind. Now a deep work can start.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 21, 2011, 06:43:36 AM



Dear amiatall,

Nice explanation.  The pupa [?] inside the cocoon contemplates on
its form and one day, it breaks open the cover and comes out
as a bee.  This example is given by many scriptural authors.
Atma Bodham [Tamizh version of Sri Bhagavan] Verse 49 gives this.

Attention towards the Self is to realize the Self.
 


Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 21, 2011, 09:29:11 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri amiatall,

Yes. I have almost exactly the same or similar knowledge and understanding with regard to attention and a thought. Attention is shradha as Sri Subramanian sir pointed out and it is grace to channel energy as Sri amiatall defined it. Attention is the power of the Self. It is consciousness, nay, it is the consciousness aspect of the mind. It is pure. Its movement gives rise to a thought.   

Sri Subramanian sir says that any simple movement of the mind is thought. I wish to elaborate it a little. When consciousness aspect of the mind, which is pure attention, moves from one object to another, physical or mental, I have a thought. The vasanas in seed forms cause attention to move out and it does not stay on a single object. It keeps on moving from one object to another. At a time, I have the thought of only that object on which my attention is riveted at that particular point of time. Thoughts are like waves in the consciousness.

If the external movement of the attention gradually slows down to one object, or a concept or whatever, by sadhana, and finally on to itself, it transcends itself. This has been presented so beautifully and picturesquely by Sri amiatall by his ‘A thought control process table’.

Thank you so much for your response.

                                                                                               Regards,
                                                                                                  Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramanaduli on January 21, 2011, 10:36:44 AM
DEar Subramaniyan ji,

Does the thought comes to contemplate. If so this thought can be called attention/grace/awarness. Is not it? Like the recent ads. for surf says the stain is good if it has meaningfull act.


Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 21, 2011, 11:20:48 AM



Dear Anil,

Thought is the movement of mind, it is energy.  Sometimes, the energy is deeply embedded within, and does not come out immediately.  It is hidden-thoughts or vasanas.  Sri Bhagavan says
that even vasanas should be exhausted, not by making it a thought,
but through self inquiry.  For a example, Saint Tirunavukkarasar was
already 80 years old.  He was sweeping and cleaning the temple in
Tiru Adigai.  There, Indra, so the story goes, sent some dancing girls.  Now what is the use of dancing girls to a 80 year old man?
You may ask.  But the story is to verify that whether the saint had got vasanas for sex.,  He might look at these girls sexually, if his
vasanas had not been exhausted.  But the saint did not even look at them. 

Dear ramanaduli,

Even thought to contemplate is a thought. But it is a good thought. Such good thoughts should be cultivated, to remove the bad thoughts. For example, one can meditate or read some scriptures,
avoiding seeing the idiot box.  These are good thoughts to remove the bad thoughts.  But Sri Bhagavan says that even these good thoughts should go away at some point of time along with bad thoughts.  It is like using a thorn to remove a thorn on the sole and then throwing away both the thorns.



Arunachala Siva.   
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 21, 2011, 04:42:04 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji.Yes. There is no doubt that thought is the movement of the mind. Latent tendencies, in seed forms, are the hidden energy in the consciousness. It is this hidden energy which is the cause for the movement of the power of the Self, or the consciousness part of  the mind or the attention itself. I mean to say that in the absence of this movement mind is ‘Brahmakara’ or One with the Self.

At a particular point of time, I have a thought only of an object, physical or mental, only because my attention, at that particular point of time, is on that object. That object or form or a concept is my thought at a particular time on which is my attention at that time. Thus, a thought is the outcome of my attention on an object corresponding to that thought.

Dear sir, you have very nicely said that in the beginning it is the Self-attention towards the Self in the right side of the chest. At the end, all is Self and mind is not different from It.

You have also very nicely explained the efficacy of good thoughts. Sri Bhagwan has said that good thoughts should be cultivated to remove the bad thoughts. But in the end a thought, good or bad, or even the thought of ‘I’, is the hindrance in Realization and, therefore, should be discarded like the thorn used to take out another thorn from the sole is thrown away along with the troublesome one.

Thank you so much sir.

                                                                                       Regards
                                                                                          Anil         
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 22, 2011, 07:21:27 AM


Dear Anil,.

Sri Bhagavan has said that even a single vasana can lead to rebirth!

Jata Bharata was the example.  A great ascetic, he had  love for the
young deer he was taking care, at the jungle.  Love for that deer did not leave him even at the time of death.  He felt sorry that he had to leave the deer uncared!  He had to take a rebirth as a deer due to this!



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 22, 2011, 08:03:03 AM
‘I am’  is the Self. Yet I identify myself with the body which is itself insentient and does not say “I am the body” of its own accord. The unlimited and infinite Self also does not. Who says “I am the body” ? Who else is it (he) that says so ?

Sri Bhagwan : A spurious ‘I’ arises between the Pure Consciousness and the insentient body and imagines itself limited to the body. Seek this and it will vanish as a phantom. That phantom is the ego, or the mind or the individuality.

All the sastras are based on the rise of this phantom, whose elimination is their purpose. The present state is mere illusion. Disillusionment  is the goal and nothing more.
                                                         
                                                                     Talks, no. 427

Well, I feel that this is the most sublime and the most radical ever spiritual teaching  delivered by a Holy One. I also feel that the world and the modern man has not fully understood the implication of the advent of the GRRACE EMBODIED, Bhagwan Sri Ramana.

The meaning and implication of the above statement of Sri Bhagwan must be understood by the modern mind. Sri Bhagwan says that only the disillusionment is the goal, nothing more. Mind it, ‘nothong more’. Who will like to live with an illusion ? If only we reach a conclusion, by enquiry and discrimination, that this is a mithya (false) life in a mithya jagat based on a spurious and phantom like entity that is the ego ‘I’ can we really hope to rid ourselves of the illusory living based on illusory concepts.

                                                                                  Thank You,
                                                                                      Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 22, 2011, 02:09:52 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I read Sri Jata Bharata’s tale in Talks. His tale teaches that even a single attachment with the phenomenal world, even if it is for a good cause, is enough to cause rebirth. Even a great ascetic, such as Sri Jata Bharata, is reborn to end an attachment for the good cause. Sri Jata Bharata felt sorry that the deer would remain uncared after his death !

However, I wish to say that activities of the mind is no longer a problem if one is able to hold the Self all the while.

Sri Bhagwan : What does it matter if the mind is active ? It is so only on the substratum of the Self. Hold the Self even during mental activities.
                                                                                           Talk, no 406

Therefore, if one is adequately advanced enough to hold the Self, thoughts may come and go over the substratum, he remains unaffected and a mere witness, nay, presence. For Sri Bhagwan has said that witness implies dualism and sakshi (witness) should be understood as presence.

Thank you so much sir.

                                                                                                  Regards,
                                                                                                     Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 22, 2011, 02:18:21 PM



Dear Anil,

In this connection, Sri Ramakrishna used to narrate a story.
In the olden days, in large village houses, there will be pillars
in the hall as well as in front portals.  Young girls used to hold on
to the pillar with one and revolve round and round in good speed.
So long as the pillar is held tight with one gripping hand, then the
revolving girls would not fall down.  Otherwise, if there is a slip,
the girl will get injured.

So also with the activities of the mind. Hold on to the Self, the Pillar, the substratum and engage in world's activities as in the
girl's game of revolving around the pillar.  Then there is no harm.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 22, 2011, 02:42:45 PM
Dear Sir, this is a very nice post. The story narrated by Sri Ram Krishna is in perfect conformity
with Sri Bhagwan's Teaching. By 'good speed' here in this context should mean a normal life.
Therefore, it follows that if one is able to hold on to the Self (pillar) unwaveringly (tight),
he can go on to live a normal life as ordained (can revolve at a good speed without harm).
Isn't it sir ? Thank you so much sir. Regards. Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 22, 2011, 05:00:46 PM
Dear Sir, the second line in my last post should read " The teaching contained in the story
as narrated by Sri Ram Krishna is in perfect harmony and unity with Sri Bhagwan's Teaching. "
I didn't feel it appropriate to use the word 'conformity'. Thank you sir. Regards. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 23, 2011, 08:34:27 AM
THERE IS NOTHING TO ATTAIN AND NO TIME WITHIN WHICH TO ATTAIN, YOU ARE ALWAYS THAT. YOU HAVE NOT GOT TO  ATTAIN ANYTHING. YOU HAVE ONLY TO GIVE UP THINKING YOU ARE LIMITED, TO GIVE UP THINKING YOU ARE THIS BODY.
               
               ( Sri Bgagwan, Printed on the backside of the diary, 2011, Sri Ramanasramam )

If I give up thinking that I am limited in this body, I am here, there, and everywhere. If there is no time to attain, and if I have got nothing to attain, this means I am ‘now’, not a trice of a moment earlier or later. The above translates into a great truth : “ I AM HERE AND NOW, NOT ANYWHERE ELSE, NOT AT ANY DIFFERENT TIME. BUT HERE AND NOW.

It is the greatest of ironies that we all are doing sadhanas to achieve only that –to be here and now. What a wonder ! We even set a time table to be here and now. Isn’t it the greatest irony of all ?

                                                                        Thank You,
                                                                            Anil         


Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 23, 2011, 09:26:14 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  We are always the Self. The One without a second. All our
efforts are to remove the non-Self, which is nothing but the I-
thought, the ego.  Ahandai uru azhithale mukti - says the last
sentence of ULLadu Narpadu.  This is possible through two ways:

1. To investigate the nature of the ego and attention towards the
Self.

2.  To retain the ego and do devotion and then submit the ego finally in self surrender.  This self surrender is Saranagati.

Sri Bhagavan said the second one to Mother Azhagamma and the first one to Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 23, 2011, 09:37:18 AM
In the context of the discussion on ‘thoughts’, I quote below from Talks, no. 613 as follows :

“A young man asked : “ Are thoughts mere matter ? “
Sri Bhagwan             : What do you mean ? Do you mean ‘matter’ like the things you see
                                    around ?
Devotee                                : Yes-gross.
Sri Bhagwan              : Who asks this question ? Who is the thinker ?
Devotee                      : The thinker is spirit.
Sri Bhagwan               : Do you mean that spirit generates matter ?
Devotee                       : I want to know.
Sri Bhagwan                : How do you distinguish between matter and spirit ?
Devotee                       : Spirit is consciousness and the other is not.
Sri Bhagwan            : Can consciousness generate non-consciousness, or light darkness ?”

Light cannot generate darkness. Consciousness cannot generate non-consciousness. Jnana cannot generate ignorance. And, of course, spirit cannot generate matter.

But Sri Bhagwan says that the world is mental, mere thoughts. And seemingly one sees that the world is composed of the matter. So it is but natural for one to infer that thoughts are the matter.

Therefore, the  above  statements  of  Sri Bhagwan implies that the thoughts are not real. They are a mere appearance. They are like waves, like vibrations, rising and subsiding,  in  the ocean of the consciousness. They are nothing per se, intrinsically in themselves, perception of the world and myriad of concepts, forms, and objects in it notwithstanding. Brahman or the Self is pure Consciousness, Pure Knowledge, Pure Bliss, PRESENCE, It cannot create dream like world and idea of sorrows, joys, fear, envy, hatred etc. They are mere appearances, like the appearance of water in a mirage.

                                                                                              Thank You,
                                                                                                   Anil
 
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 23, 2011, 10:04:29 AM



Dear Anil.,

When Swami Vivekananda went to America, he used to address the
audience in meetings, " You are all Brahmaswrupam!"  The audience felt that Swamiji was not hypnotizing them.  Because they had
heard in churches that they are addressed as:  "O Sinners, O sinners!" One girl stood up and asked Swamiji:  You are hypnotizing us!  Vivekananda replied:  No, I am not hypnotizing you.  Rather I am de-hypnotizing you. 

We are all like that.  We are so much used with ego that we refuse
to accept that we are Brahma Swarupam.  Or when Sri Bhagavan said that there are no ajnanis, all are jnanis, the devotees somehow could not believe those words.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 23, 2011, 03:59:14 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

' Ahandai uru azhithale mukti ' (w.r.t. Re 478)
Kindly explain wordwise meaning of the above sentence, the last sentence of the Scripture on Atma Vichara, ULLadu Narpadu.

Dear sir, attention towards the Self, investigation of the nature of the ego, and finally its merging into the Source is Jnana. On the other hand, submission of the ego finally in self surrender is Jnana.

Therefore, it follows that both Self Enquiry as well as devotion are one and the same. They are two aspects of Jnana or Truth. Thank you. Regards. Anil

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 23, 2011, 04:43:02 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan has said that the very birth of the I-thought or the ego is a sin and the body itself is the disease. For this soiled ego arrogates to itself That which is Pure Radiance.

If in churches a devotee is addressed as ' O sinner....' , it is obvious that his ego is being addressed.

However, in our religious and spiritual culture and tradition, every life is regarded as the manifestation of the Supreme Brahman. Hence  our Gurus often reminded the devotees and seekers of this underlying Reality by telling them time and again that you are Brahmaswarupam.

Sri Bhagwan never allowed His adoring devotees to think themselves as  sinners. He always said that such thinking is a hindrance in Realization.

Ego is hypnotized under the spell of its own creation (mental creation). When one realizes its own true nature as Brahmaswarupa, it is indeed de-hypnotization.

Thank you so much sir.

  Regards,
     Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 24, 2011, 09:20:48 AM


Dear Anil,

Ahandhai -  ego
URu - form. i.e the form of ego is thoughts and vasanas.
Azhithale - to get destroyed.
Mukti - liberation.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 24, 2011, 01:11:58 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

So, the last sentence of the Ulladu Narpadu says that the destruction of the ego which is of the form of thoughts and vasanas is liberation.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil
                                                                 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 24, 2011, 01:13:45 PM
What is ego ?

Grasping a form (i.e. body) it rises; grasping a form it stands; grasping a form, it eats and waxes; leaving a form it grasps another form; when sought it takes to flight- this shapeless and ghostly ego ! Thus should you know.

                                                                    Verse-25, Ulladu Narpadu


There is only the Absolute Self or the Brahman. Sri Bhagwan says that a spark proceeds from the Supreme Self as from a fire. This spark is called the ego. It identifies itself with the body simultaneously with its rise. We should pay attention to this fact that both its rise and identification with the body are happening at the same time, simultaneously. Sri Bhagwan says that grasping a form it rises and grasping a form only it can stand. It cannot remain independent without such association with the objects. This very association is ajnana or the ignorance. All sadhanas are only to destroy this association of the spark from the Supreme with the forms or the objects. Since is rise and identification are simultaneous , Sri Bhagwan says that if its objectifying tendency is killed, it remains pure and is merged into the Source of its own accord. The wrong identification with the body is what is called ‘dehatmabudhi’ ( ‘I am the body’ idea ) which must go, if one is to regain the Radiant and Blissful Natural State.

 Thank you,
    Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 24, 2011, 01:39:26 PM


Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan describes the nature of mind/ego, beautifully, in Verses 15 to 20 also.

Verse 15:  Mind extinct, the mighty seer,
               Returns to his own natural being
               And has no action to perform.

Verse 16:  It is true wisdom
               For the mind to turn away
               From outer objects and behold
               Its own effulgent form.

Verse 17:  When unceasingly the mind
               Scans its own form,
               There is nothing of the kind
               For everyone
               This path direct is open.

Verse 18:  Thoughts alone make up the mind,
               And of all thoughts, the 'I' thought is the root.
               What is called the mind is but the notion 'I'

Verse 19:  When one turns within and searches
               Whence this 'I' thought arises,
               The shamed 'I' vanishes --
               And wisdom's quest begins.

Verse 20:  Where this 'I' notion faded
                Now there as I, as I, arises
                The One, the very Self, the Infinite.   

This is the Heart of Upadesa Saram.  Each verse is a Maha Vakya.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 24, 2011, 03:13:09 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

the last sentence of the Ulladu Narpadu says that the ego is of the form of
thoughts and vasanas. Sri Ram Krishna has compared the ego to an onion.
He says that the ego is like the onion which is nothing apart from  its peels.
When one goes on shedding off thoughts and vasanas, only the Supreme Silence remains.
And that is blissful Natural Abode.

Thank You sir.

Regards,
   Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 24, 2011, 04:21:35 PM



Dear  Anil,

Yes. Sri Ramakrishna compared the ego to an onion, which is nothing when peeled off. 

Sri Bhagavan has said it is a ghost.  Ghost has no real form.  It holds on to a firm and rises, it thrives. 

Once in a village, a villager in the dark moonless light saw a trunk of a felled tree and mistook it as a ghost.  He came and told everyone.  Another man further created a story that it is wearing a white dress.  All ghost stories describe ghosts wearing only a white dress.  No red or blue dress!  A third man said that it called him -
come here, come here.  Like these stories started spreading in the village.  One bold fellow took a torch and went near the 'ghost'.  It is not there. There is only a trunk of a felled tree.

ULLadu Narpadu Verse 25:

Holding a form it rises.  Holding a form it stays.  Holding and feeding on a form, it thrives. Leaving one form, it takes hold of another.  When sought, it takes to flight.  Such is the ego-ghost with no form of its own.

In our daily experiences, we find that all our dyads and triads are only dependent on the ego.  I love X. I hate Y.  I am afraid of X.  Y is afraid of me.  One cannot love or hate just summa, for no reason.  We always need a person to show our hate or love.  Sometimes in pain and misery we hate ourselves.  This is also on to a person, that is me.  All emotions are upon a person - through our ego.  Only when the first person pronoun rises, the second person and third person pronouns rise.  These are dyads.  So also the case with triads.  God, world, jiva and such discussions.
If one investigates the underlying ego, all these will go.  Such a
person will realize the Truth.

ULLadu Narpadu Verse 9:

'Two's and 'Threes' depend upon one thing, the ego.  If one asks in one's Heart, 'What is this ego?' and finds it, they slip away.  Only those who have found this know the Truth.  And they will never be perplexed.



Arunachala Siva.
 
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 25, 2011, 09:58:37 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan says that ego is like a ghost. We should trace and understand the meaning and significance of this statement. In essence, there is no difference between  the ego and the ghost. As a ghost or a dark spirit is superimposed on the substratum of a tree trunk or a post, so is the ego-ghost superimposed on the substratum of the Supreme Self. On enquiry, the so called ghost turns out to be a tree trunk or a post, so is the ego ghost is found to be the Self on Self-Enquiry.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 25, 2011, 10:02:27 AM
The body is blind, unborn is the Real Self.
The twain between, within the body’s limit,
There a something else appears.
That is the knot of matter and spirit, the mind,
        The living soul, the body subtle, the ego-self.
That is samsara, the revolving wheel ( of life and death).

                                                                   Verse-26, Sat-Darshan

Born of form, rooted in forms,
Living on forms, ever changing its forms,
Itself formless, flitting when questioned,
Such is the ego-ghost.

                                                                     Verse-27, Sat-Darshan


Self is the Fullness of Consciousness and is the basis of the I-notion in all beings. The body is insentient, or jada. Between the two appears the ghost like entity which is distinct from both the Self as well as the body. This ego-ghost partakes of the character of both the Self and the body and serves as a link between them. Sri Bhagwan says that  this ego-ghost is a a granthi, a knot, connecting the spirit with the matter. Sri Bhagwan calls this psycho-physical knot by the name of  ‘Chit-jada-granthi’ which appears within the limit of the body.

Since this ego-ghost partakes of the character of both the Self and the body, although distinct from both, it is at once pervasive ( character of the Self ) and limited ( character of the body ).

It follows from the above discussion that the True ‘I’ is the Absolute Existence and the Supreme Meaning and Significance of the Supreme Self. The Supreme Self is vaguely represented by its reflection , atmabhasa, or the apparent self.

Thank You,
    Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 25, 2011, 10:23:43 AM



Dear Anil,

It is the mind that creates stories, imaginations, thoughts and anxieties.  If the mind is quelled, it curls back into the Self.  If it
stays permanently with the Self without jumping out, it is realization.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 25, 2011, 02:54:11 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

One is aware that the ego, mind, thoughts, and prana rise from the Conscious Self. One is aware by the Grace of the Guru, of one’s Truth that ‘I merely am’. Non-dual feeling is always there. Sometimes, even sleep does not seem to obstruct this experience. Sri Bhagwan says apprehending It (the Conscious Self) even vaguely helps the extinction of the ego. Thereafter, the Realization of the Infinite and the Eternal Existence becomes possible. 

But so long as the ego-mind does not permanently stay merged with the Source, or the Self, as you said,  I feel that perseverance at this stage is vital. I also feel that this perseverance is best realized when one is always doing Atma Vicharam, remembering, reading only selected books pointing unerringly to the Self, and of course with a bit of relevant discussion with the like-minded devotees.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 25, 2011, 03:54:56 PM



Dear Anil,

Very true.  Perseverance and efforts are definitely necessary.
Self realization is not for the weaklings.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 26, 2011, 01:49:27 PM
There are many selves but there is only one Self.

All this is verily Brahman. Brahman is One without a second. Brahman is truth, knowledge endless. Brahman is consciousness.
                                                                  Upanishad

The Upanishads describe the nature of Brahman as the Supreme Sole Truth, or Sat, as the third person in the context of the creation-jivas and the world.
“Aham Atma Gudakesh…” , or  “ I am the Self of all…” ,or “ I am is God ” or “ I is the Name of god.”

Reality is as It is. Nothing whatever can be said with reference to it.  In Itself, It is as It is. It is. There is neither  ‘I’ nor ‘this’ in Brahman when it is referred as the Supreme Truth, or Eternal existence, or as  Sat. When referred as Itself, as It is, unrelated to the created existence, only Infinite Eternal Existence as Silence is.

But the Sole Supreme truth, Brahman, is also the Supreme Self of all created jivas and the world. As the Supreme Source of all created entities, It is the Supreme Self or the Supreme ’I’ of all that is created, of all beings, of all empirical realities and vitality.

Therefore, it follows that the Supreme Sole Reality, Brahman, or Sat, is verily the Supreme Self, the Indwelling Self. The Indwelling Self is the basis and support of the notion of ‘I’ in all of us. So, the notion of  our ‘I’ refers to the supreme Self or the Supreme ‘I’ which is its ultimate meaning and significance.

Thank you,
    Anil       



Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 26, 2011, 02:15:38 PM
The third paragraph of  my last post ( re-494 ) should read, " The Upanishads describe the nature of Brahman as the Supreme Sole Truth, or Sat, using third person pronoun as in the quoted text above. However, in the context of the creation-jivas and the world, first person pronoun is used.
" Aham Atma Gudakesh..", or " I am the Self of all. ", or " I am is God. " , or " I is the Name of God"

Thank you,
    Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 27, 2011, 07:49:53 AM
Thus, the Supreme sense of ‘ I’  is the Unmanifest, Eternal and Infinite Supreme Self who is at the same time the Inner Self of all beings. He (the supreme Self) is the implied meaning and real significance of ‘I’ in individuals. However, the direct, immediate and apparent sense of ‘I’ in individuals is the ego. Arrogating to itself the sovereignty of the Self, and its subtle forces like the mind and inner organs, feeling smug and waxing eloquent on achievement and falling to abysmal nadir on sorrows, this false, spurious, and wretched little ego-self poses as the ‘self’ in the external world. This becomes possible because of the ever persisting Presence of the Supreme Self as the Inner Self in the innermost recess of hearts of all individuals. It even supports and is the basis  for  distinctiveness that is individuality.

Nevertheless, individual  selves, although many, are not different from the True Inner Self. Hence, the Upanishadic Teaching that although selves are many the Self is One.

Sri Bhagwan says that ego is the wrong identification of the Self with the not-Self.   

Thank You,
    Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 28, 2011, 07:27:56 AM
There is only One Self. Ego is false and does not exist. Otherwise, Sri Bhagwan says, one would be always two instead of one. One  you  the ego and the other you the Self. This is absurd. Sri Bhagwan says that you are a single indivisible whole. If one believes otherwise, this is because of lack of enquiry. If we believe in the snake, this is because of lack of enquiry. Sri Bhagwan says , “ Enquire into yourself and the apparent ego and ignorance will disappear “.

The ego-mind is false and is non-existent. The ego is like one’s own shadow which can neither be buried as Major Sri Chadwick found to his dismay, nor can be killed. I do not mean to say that Sri Chadwick was not aware of the futility of his efforts. This symbolic act of Sri Chadwick  only signifies and underlines the simple fact that the ego is very tenacious and cannot be easily got rid of.

Does one, can one, kill the snake falsely superimposed on the substratum of the rope in the dim light ? Sri Bhagwan says that just as there is no need to kill the rope which one imagines to be a snake, so also, there is no need to destroy the mind. Knowing the form of the  mind makes the mind disappear.

Devotee : Then why you say “know thyself” you want me to know this ego-self ?
Sri Bhagwan : But the moment the ego-self tries to know itself, it changes its character ; it begins to partake less and less of the jada, in which it is absorbed, and more and more of the Consciousness of the Self, the Atman.
                                        Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi, p-16

Thank You,
    Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 28, 2011, 08:02:28 AM
I am ever the nature of the Supreme Brahman,
The undivided Knowledge without any ego.
It is the ego that is ever the misery of worldly existence.
The great truth is that there is no ego
And that there is not an atom apart from me.
I am undivided, complete, and full.
I am ever the Supreme Brahman.
Inquire steadfastly into this every day.
                                                                            Verse-14-28, The Song of Ribhu

 You are “I” ; I am ”I” ; all else that is, is “I”.
There is no doubt about this.
Without any duality, be continuously immersed in the meditation
That that pure “I” is the Supreme Brahman.
There is no delusion, no consequences of delusion,
And no difference of any kind whatever-nothing at all.
I am the Supreme Brahman.
Inquire steadfastly into this every day.
                                         Verse-14- 29, The Song of Ribhu
                                           Tr. Dr. H. Ramamoorthy and Nome   

Thank You,
     Anil

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 29, 2011, 08:41:26 AM
Man is endowed with reason-the faculty to discriminate between what is real and what is unreal. But although reason and intellect occupy such a high pedestal in the worldly scheme of things, their utility in the relative world seems to be confined only to choosing the pleasant from the unpleasant, the joyful from the sorrowful, and the satisfactory from the unsatisfactory. In other words, we act when nudged by the instinctive impulses to seek pleasant pastures outside, much like the animals which do not boast of such endowments as the thinking and the reasoning faculty as we do.

Sri Bhagwan says that we, as individuals, are sentient beings and cannot function apart from the consciousness. The Self is Pure Consciousness. Yet, how rational we are that we identify ourselves with this insentient body which is jada-the earth, water etc. !

Is it not a sin that being Pure Sentience, we confuse ourselves with this body and the world to which it belongs.Sri Bhagwan says that the very birth of the ego is the greatest sin for it arrogates to itself THAT and superimposes It on the insentient.

Sri Bhagwan says that the insentient body does not say “ I am the body “ of its own accord. The unlimited Self also does not. Who else is he that says so ? A spurious ‘I’ arises between the Pure Consciousness and the insentient body. Seek this and it will vanish as a phantom. That phantom is the ego, or the mind or the individuality.

“All the sastras are based on the rise of this phantom, whose elimination is their purpose. The present state is mere illusion. Disillusionment is the goal and nothing more.”
                                                                  Talks, no-427
To sum up : We are the Supreme Self, nothing less, only imagining ourselves to be the insentient body. This is a mere mental error. Therefore, it follows that ‘ ONLY THE IMAGINATION ELEMENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RISE OF THIS SPURIOUS ENTITY . We imagine ourselves as the man the ego and not as Self as we really are.

Thank You
     Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 30, 2011, 07:47:36 AM
The faith of every individual , o Bharata, is in accordance with his nature. Man is essentially endowed with faith. What his faith is, that, verily he is.
                                                                                                   Verse-17-3, Srimad Bhagvad Gita

One who has faith and concentration and has subdued his senses attains knowledge.Having gained knowledge he speedily attains Supreme Peace.
                                                                                                     Verse-4-39, Srimad Bhagvad Gita

The two quoted verses from Srimad Bhagvad Gita deal essentially with faith. Sri Bhagwan included these verses as Verse no.17 and 18 in the Song Celestial comprising of 42 most sublime Verses from the Scripture of the Mankind, Srimad Bhagavad Gita.

The way to Self-Realization is through faith and Self-control. Sri S. Radhakrishnan says that faith is the aspiration of the soul to gain wisdom. It is the reflection  in the empirical self of the wisdom that dwells in the deepest level of our being.

So, the faith that we must possess is neither blind nor acceptance of a belief but the inward intuition of Reality which indicates the Path and leads to It.

Our nature is so constituted that we all possess some faith or the other and act according to that faith or conviction. Such faith may even develop unconsciously in action and reaction to the external events. For instance, if one believes that wealth alone can make him happy, all his actions will be guided by this belief. On the contrary, if he has deep conviction that the goal of life is to seek divinity within , the set of his actions will be governed by that faith alone. So, the Great Lord says, “ What his faith is, that, verily he is “.

Having divine faith, indeed, in my opinion, is the greatest achievement for man in this temporary world of ephemeral phenomena. There is no doubt that such intense faith is the mightiest weapon in the possession of the seekers by means of which otherwise tyrannous mind and rebellious senses can be subdued easily.


Therefore, the Great Lord declares that if one has intense faith and through that faith has subdued his senses, attains The Supreme Realization quickly.

Thank You,
    Anil
                 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 30, 2011, 07:55:16 AM


Dear Anil,

David Godman says in his book Be As You Are:

This practice of self attention or awareness of the 'I'-thought
is a gentle technique, which bypasses the usual repressive methods
of controlling the mind.  It is not an exercise in concentration, nor
does it aim by suppressing thoughts, it merely invokes awareness
of the Source from which the mind springs.

The method of self inquiry is to abide in the Source of the mind,
and to be aware of what one really is, by withdrawing attention and interest from what one is not.  In the early stages, effort in the form of transferring the attention from the thoughts to the thinker is essential, but once awareness of the 'I'-feeling has been firmly established, further effort is counter-productive.  From then on, it is more of a process of being than doing, of effortless being rather than the effort to be.



Arunachala Siva.          
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 30, 2011, 08:20:29 AM
Verse 4-39 form Srimad Bhagvad Gita was cited along with the Verse 17-3 in my last post. I felt it appropriate to cite the Verse 4-40 also.

But the man who is ignorant, who has no faith, who is of a doubting nature, perishes. For the doubting soul, there is neither this world nor the world beyond nor any happiness.
                                                        Verse 4-40, Srimad Bhagvad Gita

We must inculcate a faith that stands the test of reality and unreality. Intense and unwavering divine  faith is the only positive basis of life. Strong positive conviction is essential for life to be meaningful. The Great Lord says that the one who is of doubting nature ruins this precious life and  perishes. 

Thank You,
   Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 30, 2011, 09:00:15 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,
                  Pranam,

Ji. Yes. I have read Sri David Godman’s  ‘Be As You Are’ which is a very exceptional work dealing pointedly with the ‘Natural State’.

You have very truly mentioned in your post that once the awareness of the ‘I’-feeling has been firmly established, further effort is counterproductive. Ji, from then on, it is a matter of only being, simply being than doing, of just effortless being rather than putting in any effort to be. From then on, It is only Grace, only Sri Bhagwan’s Grace. No doing. Nothing whatever other than ‘summa iru’.

Thank you so much sir for a very well-timed gracious spiritual counselling.

Regards,
  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 30, 2011, 06:07:23 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan said Summa Iru.  This is Maha Vakya.  Do not
get excited / worry about the world, its happiness and misery.

Question:  Is the world created for happiness or misery?

Sri Bhagavan:  Creation is neither good nor bad.  It is as it is.
It is the human mind, which puts all sorts of constructions on it,
seeing things from its own angle and interpreting them to suit its own interests.  A woman is just a woman, but one mind calls her
'mother', another 'sister' and still another 'aunt' and so on.  Men
love women, hate snakes, and are indifferent to the grass and stones by the roadside.  These value judgments are the cause of all the misery in the world.  Creation is like a peepul tree; birds come tom eat its fruit, or take shelter under its branches.  Men cool themselves in its shade, but some may hang themselves on it also!  Yet the tree continues to lead its quiet life, unconcerned with and unaware of all the uses it is put to.  It is the human mind that creates its own difficulties and then cries for help.  Is God so partial as to give peace to one person and sorrow to another?
In creation, there is room for everything, but man refuses to see the good, the healthy and the beautiful.  Instead, he goes on whining, like the hungry man who sits besides the tasty dish and who, instead of stretching out his hand to satisfy his hunger, goes on lamenting.  Whose fault is it, god's or man's?     

[From S. Cohen, Guru Ramana].



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 31, 2011, 07:03:38 AM
Knowledgeless  non-inquiry is the abode of ignorance.
It will hide from the sight the knowledge
That can confer endless blessings.
Instead, it will project an insurmountable imagination.
It will not let one abide in the perfectly full nature.
It is the seed , without a peer , for all overwhelming fear.
Ina trice, it will accumulate sankalpa (concept, fixed idea) and
Vikalpa (doubt,difference, imagination)
And a million modifications of the mind.
                                   Verse 32-19, Song of Ribhu

Why dilate upon this ?
Non-inquiry will drown everyone in the sea of worldly misery.
There is no greater enemy anywhere
Equal to non-inquiry.
Therefore, conquer this enemy, non-inquiry,
By the inquiry into the undivided Absolute,
And, attaining undivided Knowledge by your bhava (conviction, attitude),
Be of the nature of mere Truth.
                                   Verse 32-20, Song of Ribhu

What is this inquiry into the undivided Absolute ?
Who am I ? What is this world ? What is in this ?
What is the Supreme Truth ?
Asking of the Sadguru thus,
And by Vedanta, having the certitude of Brahman
And the Truth that I am Brahman, the world is Brahman,
And whatever exists everywhere is the undivided Supreme
Brahman,
Is the inquiry.
                                        Verse 32-21, Song of Ribhu
                                        Tr. Dr.H.Ramamoorthy and Nome

Thank You
   Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on January 31, 2011, 07:56:40 AM
Sri Bhagwan says, (Talk 270), that an examination of the ephemeral nature of the external phenomena leads to vairagya. Hence enquiry (vichara) is the first and foremost step to be taken. When Vichara continues automatically, it results in a contempt for wealth, fame, ease, pleasure etc. The  ‘I’-thought becomes clearer for inspection. Sri Bhagwan further says that if, however, the aspirant is not temperamentally suited to Vichar Marga ( to the introspective and analytical method ), he may develop bhakti (devotion) to an ideal-may be God, Guru, ethical laws etc. When one of these  takes  possession  of the individual, other attachments grow weaker i.e. dispassion (vairagya) develops. Attachment for the ideal simultaneously grows and finally holds the field. Thus, ekagrata (concentration) grows simultaneously and imperceptibly. Sri Bhagwan says that in the absence of enquiry and devotion, pranayama may be tried.

Sri Bhagwan says that examination of the ephemeral nature of the worldly phenomena leads to vairagya. But, other than ‘I’, everything that one can think of –wealth, fame, family, relationship, achievement, sorrows, joys-everything-is of the ephemeral or temporary nature. If by enouiry and discrimination, one is able to shed off this temporary and superfluous superimposition on ‘I’, I-thought becomes clearer for inspection which will invariably lead to Self-Realization finally.
In my view, it is here that the free will comes into operation or the need for the exercise of the free will arises. For here is the choice. Either we act with passion for temporary worldly possession, or by enquiry develop a contempt for them understanding their ephemeral nature.

The first one takes us to bottomless pit of dark ignorance. On the contrary, the other one leads to the Realization of the Self-Existence, Consciousness and Bliss. We have been given a life-time opportunity to exercise the free will judiciously- at least once !

Thank You,
   Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 31, 2011, 09:46:17 AM



Dear Anil,

Muruganar says in  Padamalai:

Verse 295:  If one carefully determines the most auspicious day to
perform [self inquiry], the one good action, there is no other day like today.

Verse 296:   If one performs [that self inquiry] whenever the
opportunity arises, without the least lapse of attention, one's
life will become solid and fortified.

Verse 727:  Practise Vichara ceaselessly while you are awake and
destroy the forgetfulness of mind that leads one to the laya of sleep.

Verse 620:  Only Vichara removes the desires for the numerous enjoyments of the senses, by revealing them to be insubstantial.

Verse 621: Only beneficial Vichara will confer upon you, as your own form, the limitless expanse of supreme bliss.

{Sri Ramana Gita, Ch. 7, Verse 6:  The result of self inquiry is freedom from all suffering.  This is the highest of all fruits.  There is nothing higher than this.}

Verse 2280:  Through Jnana Vichara, diving within inquiring "Who am I?", the delusion of attachment and the I-am-the-body idea will be destroyed.

Verse 643:  When, through inquiry, one attains clear experience of reality as a result of obtaining true Jnana, there is nothing further to be attained.

Verse 2368: Seeking knowledge of the Self through inquiry "Who am
I?" is the perfect medicinal herb for all ailments.

Verse 2369:  The medicinal herb, Vichara, will attack and destroy all the different diseases.


[Tr. and arrangement of verses - David Godman ]     



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 01, 2011, 08:08:38 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Muruganar’s composition and works capture the quintessence of Sri Bhagwan’s Sublime Teaching. Sri Bhagwan says that examination of the ephemeral nature of the external phenomena leads to vairagya (dispassion) and enquiry is the first and the foremost step to be taken. And here the sage poet sings, “ Only Vichara removes the desires for the numerous enjoyments of the senses, by revealing them to be insubstantial ”.

Vichara gradually reveals the external phenomena as well as thoughts and objects to be merely mental. Vichara finally reveals everything other than ‘I’, the Seer, to be utterly non-existent and like water in a mirage.

Thank you so much sir for citing relevant and sublime verses from Padamalai.

Regards,
  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 01, 2011, 08:11:44 AM
It is so long as one thinks ‘I know other things’ that the delusion ‘I do not know myself’ will remain. When such a thought is removed by the experience of the ever-existing Self-Knowledge, that delusion will become false (that is, it will become non-existent).
                                                                                              Verse 548, GVK, Tr. Sri Sadhu Om

‘I do not know myself’  is a delusion and is concomitant with the thought  ‘I know other things’. Therefore, there is no time in which I do not know myself will dawn only when the delusion that I know other thing ceases. For, the knowledge of other thing presupposes my existence. Sri Bhagwan asks from us, “Which is prior ? Being Consciousness or the rising consciousness ?” Rising consciousness is from, in, and by the Being Consciousness

Sri Sadhu Om, in his commentary on the above cited verse, says, as following :
“ Since whenever anything is known, our power of attention takes the form of a thought (vritti) ‘I know other things’, a false delusion ‘I do not know myself ‘ prevails. But when the discrimination (viveka) ‘Whenever I know any other thing, it is known because I exist there, and hence every knowledge of my existence is already there‘  shines more and more through enquiry (Vichara), the truth ‘There is no time in which I do not know myself ‘ will dawn. This is the eternal, ever-attained state of Self-knowledge. “

Indeed, this a very powerful explanation of the above cited verse shedding light and full clarity on the ‘subject’.

Thank You,
    Anil

     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 01, 2011, 08:52:25 AM


Dear Anil,

Yes.  Only so long as a person thinks that he is aware of the non-
Self will the delusion, 'Oh, I do not my nature!' exist.  If this thought
[that he is aware of the non-Self] is removed, through the knowledge that one's nature is eternally realized, that lamentation will ceasse,
becoming essentially false.

Sri Bhagavan also says in ULLadu Narpadu, Verse 33:

To say 'I do not know myself' or 'I have known myself' is an
occasion for ridicule.  Why so?  Are there two selves, with one
making the other its object, when it is the experience of everyone
that they are one?

Muruganar says in Padamalai:

Verse 3036:  Ignorance is an erroneous superimposition.  The
infinite, blissful consciousness is alone the one existing reality.

Verse 317: No other consciousness exists to know or make known the Self, the Pure Consciousness.

Verse 2190: Only consciousness is the life of the Self.  The life associated with forms and attributes, which are defective, is the play of delusion.

Sri Bhagavan has also said:

The Self is not something hat is either known or not known.  The Self is knowledge [Jnana] itself....Knowledge and ignorance can only pertain to objects, the non-Self.  They are not appropriate to the Self, whose form is pure consciousness.

About attainments of siddhic powers, Sri Bhagavan says as to what is real siddhi.  In Verse 35 of ULLadu Narpadu, He says:

To discern and abide in the ever present Reality is true attainment [siddhi].  All other attainments [siddhis] are like powers enjoyed in a dream.  When the sleeper wakes, are they real?  Those who stay in the state of Truth, having cast off the unreal -- will they ever be deluded?



Arunachala Siva.             
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 01, 2011, 02:51:11 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Your post (Re-510) exhilarated me so much. I wish to add a few words of my own to some of your observations and brilliant citations as follows :

“ If the thought that one is aware of the non-Self is removed , through the knowledge that one’s nature is eternally realized, that lamentation will cease, revealed to be essentially false.”
   I wish to say that the awareness of the empirical forms, objects and the world is a mere thought which rises simultaneously with the deluding and ridiculous thought that I do not know my nature.   

Verse 33, ULLadu Narpadu
“ I do not know myself or I have known myself is an occasion for ridicule. Why ? Are there two selves in order to make one’s self the object ? The experience of all is that it is one.”
   Sri Bhgwan says that Self is not something either known or not known. Self is Knowledge (Jnana) Itself. Therefore, it follows that both assertions that ‘I know myself’ as well as ‘I do not know myself’ are ignorance. Truth of one’s existence is Pure Knowledge “I Am” which neither says ‘I Am’ or ‘I Am not’.

Verse 317, Padamalai
“No other consciousness exists to know or make known the Self, the Pure Consciousness”.

Verse 2190, Padamalai
“Life associated with forms and attributes, which are defective, is the play of delusion.”

Nothing can cause fragmentation in Sat- the Blissful Existence Consciousness which is One-Integral Whole. There exists no fragmented consciousness apart from the Supreme Consciousness to assert to know the Supreme as an object.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 01, 2011, 04:42:19 PM



Dear Anil,

If one abides in Self-attention without any vagaries of mind, permanently, he attains the bliss of the Self.  The Self is
Sat Chit Anandam.  It is only Real Substance, All-Knowing, and
Blissful.  A Brahma Jnani thus becomes ever blissful since the world
and its happiness and miseries do not upset his balance.

Buddha also went in search of this only.  After vanquishing the ego,
he found that there was only Void.  He therefore called it Anatma.
He never expressed bliss about his realization, since he was content with this Void. 

Vivekachoodamani also speaks about the interrugnum of Void.
When the disciple asks Guru:  O Master, I am only experiencing
Soonyam.  Nothing else is experienced.  Then the Guru says, you
abide in that Void for some time.  You shall soon experience Bliss of the Self.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 01, 2011, 06:25:20 PM
Dear Sir, Ji. Yes. Thank you so much. Will you kindly ellaborate on 'interrugnam of Void' and this observation that Lord Budha was 'content with this Void' ? Regards. Anil
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 01, 2011, 07:37:08 PM


Dear Anil,

Void is the state of emptiness., that one sadhaka who has vanquished his ego experiences as an interim gap till the appearance of Swarupam within.  This is called Soonyam.  Immediately after this soonyam, the Self is revealed as Sat Chit Anandam.  The realized person experiences total anandam or sukam.  Sukam and the Self are the same.  This bliss is the characteristic of the Self within. This sukam is not comparable with any other happiness that one enjoys in the world.  While the worldly happiness is trivial the Atma Sukam is something only to be experienced.  It is indescribable and it is the state of a self realized Jnani.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 02, 2011, 06:17:55 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Question regarding Void materialized in my mind on account of your observation that Lord Budha was content with this Void. For, in my view a seeker encounters a void or a blankness as an interim experience as you said. Although when a seeker reaches this stage, Realization is not far away, this is still a stage in one’s sadhana. Sri Bhagwan teaches at this stage to ask ,” Who sees this blankness or this void ? ”

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 02, 2011, 07:14:14 AM
Returning back to the tenacious ego, to further scorch and fry it, I wish to cite a verse from GVK as follows :

Since the other two impurities (karma and maya) grow only by depending upon the ego (anava), the root attachment, when the ego is destroyed the other two by no means can survive.
                                                                Verse 733, GVK, Tr. Sri Sadhu Om

Sri Sadhu Om says that the three impurities are anava, karma and maya. The word ‘anava’ means ego and is derived from the word ‘anu’ meaning atom. Why the ego is called ‘anava’ has been explained by the sage-poet , Sri Muruganar  himself as follows :
“ The delusion of identifying the body, which is not-Self, as  ‘I’ is the inner or the first attachment. Since this delusion makes us feel Self, which is in truth the unbroken consciousness, as an atom-like thing in the body, it is called ‘anavam’. “

So, the delusion of identifying the body as the Self or as ‘I’, which in truth is Sat,Chit, and Anand Swarupam Supreme Reality, is the inner or the first attachment. This attachment with the body makes us feel the Self as an atom-like entity within the limit of the body.

Thus, the Supreme, Unbroken and Infinite Consciousness is felt like an infinitesimal atom like entity that is the ego within the body. However, we should, at the same time, not forget that there exists neither even infinitesimal atom nor the dot-like ego. Self is the only Reality and Existence.

Sri Bhagwan says, “ The eternal, blissful, and natural state has been smothered by this life of ignorance. In this way the present life is due to killing of the eternal, pristine Being. Is it not a case of suicide ? So, then everyone is a suicide.”
                                                                                          Talk 53
Moreover, Sri Bhagwan has repeatedly said that the very birth of the ego is the greatest sin.

Thank You,
    Anil
     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 02, 2011, 07:20:57 AM
 Philosopher's stone. What is meant by a philosopher's stone ?

Thank you. Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 02, 2011, 11:40:56 AM



Dear Anil,

Philosopher's stone is the one which when touched will confer grace
and make you also a philosopher.  This is from old Greek puranas.
In our scriptures also, we have got Chintamani, which shall confer
what we want.  Muruganar says in one verse, that Sri Bhagavan
is more than a Chinatamani that He makes you not only self realized, if sought seriously, but also make you a Guru to teach others this self inquiry.



Arunachala Siva.
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 03, 2011, 07:03:22 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for pointing about the philosopher’s stone. I found a mention of the philosopher’s  stone in verse no. 406 of the Guru Vachaka Kovai.

“ By contact with the philosopher’s stone –proper and unceasing enquiry-the ghostly Jiva will lose the rust of mental impurities and will be turned into the Supreme Shiva.”
                                                                                Verse no. 406, GVK

In the cited verse, philosopher’s stone is described as the proper and unceasing enquiry. As the base material is turned into Gold by the contact with the philosopher’s stone, so also the ghostly Jiva looses the rust of the mental impurities and is turned into the Supreme Shiva by proper and unceasing enquiry. This is how I understood the cited verse.

So, the philosopher’s stone is like the Chintamani which grants all the wishes of its owner.

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan is certainly infinitely more than the concept that is called Chintamani. Sri Bhagwan abides in our Heart as our own true Self. He is mankind’s Sadguru and, therefore, there is nothing greater than Him in all the three worlds according to the Guru Gita. Besides, Sri BHagwan has said that Chintamani signifies the real nature of the Self ( Talk no. 406 ). So the concepts of ‘Drik’ and ‘drishya’ merge in Him.

Regards
   Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 03, 2011, 09:28:52 AM



Dear Anil,

Chintamani is described in some other devotee's reminiscences also.
Sri Bhagavan, he says, is Chinatamani, and makes the devotees gold [i.e making them pursue self inquiry and attain realization].  But more than Chintamani is Sri Bhagavan.  Because, Chintamani will make a piece of iron into gold but that gold will not act like Chintamani to make another piece of iron into gold.  But Sri
Bhagavan makes others lose the ego and attain self realization
and they in turn makes others also lose their ego and attain self
realization!  That Sri Bhagavan who is a Chintamani makes others a Chintamani and not merely a piece of gold!




Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 03, 2011, 12:17:23 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I experienced 'Atma tripti' , as Dr. Murty of Sri Ramanasramam once said to me, by reading your post. 

Sri Bhagwan is 'LIGHT OF KNOWLEDGE', SRI ARUNACHALA HIMSELF. There is no doubt that, by His Grace, His devotees and seekers from all over the world transcending geography and civilization, will be Self-Realized. For, this is exactly what for Sri Bhagwan appeared in this relative world of phenomena.
 
But, nevertheless, the Guru or Sadguru is One and the only One. Sri Bhagwan is Mankind's Guru, or the Sadguru.     

Thank you so much sir.

  Regards,
     Anil                 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 03, 2011, 12:57:31 PM


Dear Anil,

There are some wonderful conversations between devotees and
Sri Bhagavan, on Guru:

Q: What is Guru's Grace?  How does it lead to Self-realization?

Sri Bhagavan:  Guru is the Self.  Sometimes in his life, a man becomes dissatisfied and, not content with what he has, he seeks the satisfaction of his desires through prayer to God.  His mind is gradually purified until he longs to know God, more to obtain his grace than to satisfy his worldly desires. Then God's grace begins to manifest.  God takes the form of a Guru and appears to the devotee, teaches him the truth and, moreover, purifies his mind by association, [Sat Sangh].  The devotee's mind gains strength and is then able to turn inward.  By meditation it is further purified and it remains still without the least ripple.  That calm expanse is the Self.   

The Guru is both external and internal.  From the exterior he gives a push to the mind to turn it inwards.  From the interior he pulls the mind towards the Self and helps in quietening of the mind.  That is Guru's Grace.  There is no difference between God, Guru and the Self.

Q: What are the marks of a Sadguru?

Sri Bhagavan:  Steady abidance in the Self, looking at all with an equal eye, unshakeable courage at all times, in all places, and cirucumstances.

Q:  There are a number of spiritual teachers teaching various paths.  Whom should one take for one's Guru?

Sri Bhagavan:  Choose that one where you find you get shanti [peace].



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 03, 2011, 01:27:39 PM
Dear Sir,

ji. Very nice. Grace manifests only when a devotee reaches a stage when he begins to seek to know God Himself rather than worldly things. When the ordinary seeking, seeking and more seeking ends.

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan has said that the Source of the mind, breath and the sound of mantra are the Self. However, He laid emphasis on seeking the Source of the mind rather than that of breath and the mantra sound. This is because , in my view, mind is said to be closer to the Self than the other two. (to continue)

Thank you so much sir.

 Regards,
     Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 03, 2011, 02:02:43 PM


Dear Anil,

In the beginning, the devotee prays to God for getting riches, good
health, a good job, or a good wife or a child.  Later, all these things
would stop, and he would only ask for shanti and grace from God.
Only at this stage, the Guru comes into picture, to guide him in the path of total surrender or self inquiry, so that he can get the bliss of
the Self whose another name is Peace, Shanti.

Question:  I long for bhakti.  I want more of this longing.  Even
realization does not matter for me.  Let me be strong in my longing.

Sri Bhagavan:  If the longing is there, realization will be forced on you even if you do not want it.  Long for it intensely so that the
mind melts in devotion.  After camphor burns away, no residue is left. The mind is the camphor.  When it has resolved itself into
the Self, without leaving even the slightest trace behind, it is realization of the Self.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 03, 2011, 03:22:05 PM
Dear Sir,

Ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan has said that when a devotee reaches this stage when he asks for only shanti  and grace from God, the Gracious Lord appears as a Guru in the human form to guide him either on the Path of Knowledge or devotion  depending on the predisposition of the devotee.

Dear sir, I also feel somewhat the same as the devotee in your post. Deep within my heart I also do not long and care much for Realization. I also long and seek  the Grace bestowing ‘Feet of my Guru’. But at the same time, I know that the best worship to one’s Guru is to tread the Path shown by the Him steadfastly.  Yes, I am aware that Sri Bhagwan has said, “ If longing is there , Realization will be forced on you even if you do not want it “.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 03, 2011, 04:17:56 PM


Dear Anil,

During intense longing or devotion or in meditation, there will be
several experiences:

Q:  When I meditate I feel a certain bliss at all times.  On such
occasions, should I ask myself, 'Who is it that experiences this
bliss?'

Sri Bhagavan:  If it is the real bliss of the Self that is experienced,
that is, if the mind has really merged with the Self, such a doubt
will not arise at all.  The question itself shows that real bliss was
not yet reached.

Q:  Sometimes, I hear internal sounds.  What should I do when
such things happen?

Sri Bhagavan:  Whatever may happen, keep up the inquiry into the
self, asking, 'Who hears these sounds?' till the Reality is reached.

Q: Sometimes, while in meditation, I feel blissful and tears come
to my eyes.  At other times, I do not have them.  Why is that?

Sri Bhagavan:  Bliss is a thing that which is always there and is
not something which comes and goes.  That which comes and goes
is creation of the mind and you should not worry about it.

Q: When I reach the thoughtless stage in my sadhana I enjoy a
certain pleasure, but sometimes, I also experience a vague fear
which I cannot properly describe.

Sri Bhagavan:  You may experience anything, but you should never
rest content with that.  Whether you feel pleasure or fear, ask yourself who feels the pleasure or the fear and so carry on the
sadhana until pleasure and fear are both transcended, till all duality ceases and till the Reality alone remains.  There is nothing wrong in such things happening or being experienced, but you must never stop at that.  For instance, you must never rest content with the pleasure of laya - manolaya it is called - temporary abeyance of the mind experienced when thought is quelled, you must press on until all duality ceases.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 04, 2011, 07:07:08 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I do not feel it is appropriate and, therefore, I do not wish to say much about myself at this stage. However, your last post compels me to say a few words. I have had, sometime or the other, almost all the experiences that different devotees narrated to Sri Bhagwan as mentioned in your post. For instance, during initial years, fear gripped me during deep experiences on at least two or three occasions, and I became scared and wanted to even  usher in thoughts within my petty consciousness. From the time I came to Sri Bhagwan in 2005, Grace-filled Bliss always is, whatever my situation in the worldly life, whether it is agreeable or disagreeable  and I must confess that it has not been rosy at all by any standard. But I never had any doubt what it is. I knew instinctively that it is Sri Bhagwan, Sri Bhagwan , Sri Bhagwan………  . I must add that now that fear has gone away for ever. But emotion and tears would not go away particularly when  this thought that what merit I have to deserve such Grace  comes to me.

Dear sir, I am aware that sadhana must be carried on till all duality ceases, until all that is not-Self is transcended. I also cannot describe about the benefit that has accrued to me by interaction with you and other members on this Forum. It is indescribable. However I also must add that  Sri Bhagwan’s last statement, “ I AM HERE “ gives me an instant awareness of ‘Here and Now’. Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 04, 2011, 08:37:00 AM



Dear Anil,

Such feelings are the experiences of many members here.  They
have expressed them in this Forum.  We have to only continue
our intense faith in Sri Bhagavan, to go past these.

Q:  How does one get rid of fear?

Sri Bhagavan:  What is fear?  It is only a thought.  If there is
anything besides the Self there is reason to fear.  Who sees things separate from the Self?  First the ego arises and sees objects as
external.  If the ego does not rise, the Self alone exists and there
is nothing external.  For anything external to oneself implies the existence of the seer within.  Seeking it there will eliminate doubt and fear.  Not only fear, all other thoughts centered around the ego will disappear along with it.

Q:  How can the terrible fear of death be overcome?

Sri Bhagavan:  When does that fear seize you?  Does it come when
you do not see your body, say, in dreamless sleep?  It haunts you only when you are fully 'awake' and perceive the world, including your body.  If you do not see these and remain your pure Self, as
to dreamless sleep, no fear can touch you.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: amiatall on February 04, 2011, 12:33:57 PM
Initially when people start looking inwards, after millions of years going outwards, it appears so that something terrifies them, and it is the expansion of their consciousness or expansiveness, for they always felt as a concrete crystalized tiny entity and now that entity starts to dissipate, the all "life" that they thought they are starts to disappear. When mind starts losing boundaries or does not have where to grab on, it seems that it is falling somewhere deep. A cosmic joke is that it seems so and it appears so. But it isn't so. That which always were, is and will be, only is aware and nothing more or less. That awareness we are.

Secondly, a habit of constant accumulation of knowledge may bring some uncomfortable feelings because here you lose all knowledge and dive into unknown, and this is what mind fears - unknown. But unknown is known too. This is a big joke.

Thirdly, just being aware that's all. Mind is perplexed because its nature - to grasp, but the mystery of the Spirit grasp he cannot.


It seems God likes to joke very much.  :)
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 04, 2011, 01:13:07 PM


Dear amiatall,

Yes. The essence of mind is only awareness or consciousness.
When the ego, however, dominates it, it functions as the reasoning,
thinking or sensing faculty.  The cosmic mind being not limited by
ego, has nothing separate from itself and is therefore only aware.
This is what the Bible means by "I AM THAT I AM".

The ego-ridden mind has its strength sapped and is too weak to resist torturing thoughts.  The ego-less mind is happy in deep,
dreamless sleep.  Clearly therefore Bliss and Misery are only modes
of the mind.  But the weak mode is not easily interchangeble
with the strong mode.  Activity is weakness and consequently miserable.  Passivity is strength and therefore blissful.  The dorman strength is not apparent and therefore not availed of.

The cosmic mind,  manifesting in some rare being, is able to effect the linkage in others of the individual [weak] mind with the universal mind [strong] mind of the inner recess.  Such a rare being is called the guru or God in manifestation.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 04, 2011, 01:24:48 PM
Dear Sir,

Fear is now resolved. 'Fear Not', sang Sri Muruganar. Slowly but surely I discovered that fear, anger, emotion etc. are mere thoughts which pertain to the root I-thought. Whenever I am angry, or have thought of fear or undergoing any other emotion, the most appropriate thing to do is to ask, " To whom this thought of fear or anger or sorrow etc.? " ,"To me?", " Who am I? " The attention is at once shifted to the thinker . What is this 'I' who has these thoughts ? Is it known which thought is coming and when it is coming ? Is this false and conceptual ego  who has these thoughts is the master of the thoughts ? No. The one who is having these thoughts is a complete stranger. Then the same question arises, " Are there two I's, for one I to make the other I its object ? " And then the decisive plunge, " Who am I ? "  Only Silence.  Only Infinite, Unbroken, and Conscious Silence is the Supreme Reality.
Ji. Intense faith and longing is the key to divinity and we should always pray to Sri Bhagwan so that faith and longing continue to  deepen and  He reveals Himself as Pure Knowledge.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 04, 2011, 02:27:03 PM
Dear Sri amiatall,

Your analysis regarding perplexity of the ego-mind resulting in fear etc. is rather apt. When the mind starts losing boundaries and does not have a new one to grab on, it seems that it is falling somewhere and is scared. Your observation that mind fears the unknown is also quite relevant to the fear a seekers encounters during the initial years.

But the cosmic joke that you memtioned in your post is not a joke but the Ultimate Truth. When the ego-mind is cornered, these appear as the tricks through which it tries to escape.

Thank you for a very,very nice post.
Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 04, 2011, 03:15:28 PM


Dear Anil,

There are several questions, some serious, some humorous that were asked to Sri Bhagavan.  All were answered with great compassion by
Sri Bhagavan:

Q:  Several people say that they get peace by meditating in the Hall. I am  not blessed with such peace.  This itself has a depressing effect on me.

Sri Bhagavan:  This thought, 'I am not able to concentrate' or
'I am not getting peace' is itself an obstacle. Why should the thought arise. Find out to whom has this thought come?

Q:  Suppose there is some disturbance during meditation, such
as mosquito bites. Should one persist in meditation and try to bear the bites and ignore the interruption, or drive the mosquitoes
away and then continue the meditation?

Sri Bhagavan:  You must do as you find more convenient.  You will not attain mukti simply because you drive them away.  The thing is to attain one-pointedness and then to attain mano nasa [destruction of the mind].  Whether you do this by putting up with the mosquito bites or driving the mosquitoes away is left to you.  If you are completely absorbed in your meditation, you will not know that the mosquitoes are biting you.  Till you attain that stage, why should you not drive them away?

Q: People practicing meditation are said to get a new disease; at any rate,  I feel some pain in the back and front of the chest.  This is stated to be a test by God.  Will Bhagavan explain thnis and say if it is true?

Sri Bhagavan:  There is no Bhagavan outside you.  And no test is therefore instituted.  What you believe to be a test or a new disease resulting from spiritual practices is really the strain that is now brought to play upon your nerves and the five senses.  The mind which was hitherto operating through nadis [nerves] to sense external objects, maintaining a link between itself and the organs of perception, is now required to withdraw from the link and this action of withdrawal naturally causes a strain, a sprain or a snap attendant with pain.  Some people call this a disease and some call it a test of God.  All these pains will go if you continue your meditation, bestowing your thought solely on understanding your Self or on Self Realization.  There is no greater remedy than this continuous yoga or union with God or Atman.  Pain is inevitable as a result of discarding the vasanas [mental tendencies] which you have had for so long.



Arunachala Siva.           
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 04, 2011, 05:08:51 PM



Dear amiatall,

One Malayalee poet in his Sivanama Sangirthanam says:  God is
a very clever fellow.   He has kept all the senses outward looking
but He is staying cozily within.  This is perhaps is God's Joke or God's Sport.

Q:  Why cannot the mind be turned inward in spite of repeated attempts?

Sri Bhagavan:  It is done by practice and dispassion and it succeeds only gradually.  The mind, having been so long a cow accustomed
to graze stealthily on others' estates, is not easily confined to her stall.  However, much her keeper tempts her with luscious grass and fine fodder, she refuses the first time.  Then she takes a bit, but her innate tendency to stray away asserts itself and she slips away.  On being repeatedly tempted by the owner, she accustoms
herself to the stall finally, even if let loose, she does not stray away. Similarly, with the mind.  If once it finds its inner happiness, it will not wander outward.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 05, 2011, 08:45:26 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

In reply to a question (Your post, Re-433) regarding ‘new disease’ which a devotee practicing meditation is supposed to get, Sri Bhagwan replies, “ What you believe to be a test or a ‘new disease’ resulting from spiritual practices is really the strain that is brought to play upon your nerves and the senses ”.

Malayalee poet : “ God is a clever fellow. He has kept all the senses outward looking but He is staying cosily within. This is perhaps God’s Joke or God’s Sport. “
Very  nice. This is a beautiful  verse. Bhagwan’s reply regarding the ‘new disease’ and the Malayalee Poet’s exultation, in my view, imply the same as “ Oh Lord, All is your jugglery “.

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan used the simile of the cow used to grazing stealthily on others’ estates to drive home and underline the important fact that Atma Vichara or the Self-enquiry is a gentle technique as opposed to violent method of breath control and other rigorous spiritual practices which are employed to rein in the mind. As the keeper of the cow tempts her with luscious grass and fine fodder, so is mind tempted with inner happiness that Atma Vichara or the Self-enquiry reveals. Once it gets the taste of the inner happiness , it will seek and partake more and more of the same and thus the mind and the senses will gradually cease to wander outward.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil     
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 05, 2011, 10:16:17 AM


Dear Anil,

There are some devotees, who expressed that they had felt a void or a vacuum while meditating.  Sri Bhagavan has elaborately discussed this void in one of His conversations.  It is in Day by Day entry dated 21st July 1946:

Q:  When I meditate I reach a stage where there is a vacuum or void. How should I proceed from there?

Sri Bhagavan: Never mind whether there are visions or sounds or anything else or whether there is a void.  Are you present during all this or are you not?  You must have been there even during void to be able to say that you experienced a void.  To be fixed in that 'you' is the quest for the "I" from start to finish.  In all books of Vedanta you will find this question of a void or of nothing [soonyam] being left behind raised by the disciple and answered by the guru.  It is the mind that sets objects and has experiences and that finds a void when it ceases to see and experience, but that it not 'you'.

You are the constant illumination that lights up both the experiences and the void.  It is like the theatre light that enables you to see the theatre, the actors and the play while the play is going on but also remains alight and enables you to say that there is no play on when it is all finished.  Or there is another illustration.  We see objects all around us, but in complete darkness we do not see them and we say, 'I see nothing'; even then
the eyes are there to say that they see nothing. In the same way, you are there even in the void you mention.

You are the witness of the three bodies, the gross, the subtle and the causal, and of the three states, waking, dream and deep sleep, and the three times, past, present and future, and also of the void.  In the story of the tenth man, when each of the ten counted and thought there were only nine, each one forgetting to count himself, there is a stage, when they think one is missing and don't know who he is.  And that corresponds to the void. We are so accustomed to the notion that all that we see around us is permanent and that we are this body that when all this ceases to exist, we imagine and fear that we have also ceased to exist.

Sri Bhagavan also quoted verses 212 and 213 from Vivekachoodamani, in which the disciple says: "After I eliminate the five sheaths as not-Self, I find that nothing at all remains."  And the Guru replied that the Self or That by which all modifications [including the ego and its creatures]  and their absence that is void, are perceived is always there.

Then, Sri Bhagavan continued speaking on the subject and said: "The nature of the Self or "I" must be illumination.  You perceive all modifications and their absence.  How?  To say that you get illumination from another, would raise the question how he got it and there would be no end to the chain of reasoning [reductio at infinitum].   

So you yourself are the illumination.  The usual illustration of this is the following:  You make all kinds of sweets of various ingredients and in various shapes and they all taste sweet because there is sugar in all of them and sweetness is the nature of sugar. And in the same way, all experiences or the absence of them contain illumination which is the nature of the Self.  Without the Self they cannot be experienced, just as without sugar not one of the articles yo make can taste sweet.

A little later, Sri Bhagavan said also said:  First one sees the Self as objects.  Then one sees the Self as void.  Then one sees the Self as Self, only in the last there is no seeing, because seeing is Being.



Arunachala Siva.             
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 05, 2011, 03:29:02 PM
According to The Power of the Presence, before  Sri  Ganapati  Muni had met Sri Bhagwan, he had decided not to bend before any human being  because he considered himself an incarnation of Lord Ganapati. But Sri Bhagwan’s Grace was manifesting, for he says that he got an emotional feeling of devotion and he at once thought of the Sage of Arunachala in the Virupaksha Cave.

Sri Ganapati Muni explains to Sri Bhagwan now his famous problem thus:  “ I have read all the sastras, performed japa of the famous mantras, observed hundreds of penances and austerities. Yett I have had no realization. Is my tapas tainted ? I am said to be a learned man, yet I do not know. I take refuge in you. Help me! ”
Sri Bhagwan gazed at him in silence for some time and then replied, “ If one observes that that from which the “I-I” rises, the mind will subside there. That is tapas.”
According to the Power of the Presence, Sri Ganapati Muni immediately replied, “ Cannot the same result be obtained through mantra japa as well ? ”
Sri Bhagwan replied, “ If, while one is doing japa of a mantra, one observes where the sound of that mantra rises from, the mind will subside there . That is tapas. “

But according to this book, Sri N. R. Krishnamurti Aiyer, an old devotee of Sri Bhagwan, used to chant Rama mantra mentally. He says that the world around him disappeared and merged into his body and the body in turn would merge into the heart-centre and only the mantra vibration would be the sole experience until it also finally merged into the nescience of sleep.

The book says that Sri Aiyer was trying to follow the Famous Advice given to Sri Muni  that if one observes where from the sound of the mantra is emanating , the mind would subside there.
  It is noteworthy  that Sri Bhagwan advised Sri Muni thus only after he asked from Sri Bhagwan whether the same result cannot be obtained by watching where from the mantra sound is emanating. 
The power of the Presence observes that at this stage of his sadhana, Sri Aiyer’s efforts were culminating in sleep and for this technique to succeed, the sound would have to resolve itself into sleep-free consciousness.

Please note carefully,
“ The sound would have to resolve itself into sleep-free consciousness.” ( to continue )

Thank you,
   Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 05, 2011, 04:31:45 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes. What you have posted is correct.  When Kavyakanta Ganapati
Muni went near Sri Bhagavan, he placed his right hand on His right
leg and his left hand on His left leg.  That is keeping the hands as
like X.  Later he said that if he had not prostrated to Sri Bhagavan,
in that manner, he would never had the upadesa from Him.  What
Sri Bhagavan told Kavyakanta is self inquiry.  What He told to His
Mother Azhagamma is self surrender.  He said: "Parameswara is
doing everything according to prarabdha.  Whatever has to happen, shall happen if one does not make effort.  Whatever has not to happen, shall never happen however much one makes effort.  In sum, it is better to be silent."

Nochur Venkataraman says that Ganapati Muni was also given a secret mantra as upadesa.  This is not known to many persons but only to a few.

There was one Sub Registrar Narayana Iyer.  He was so much impressed by ULLadu Narpadu, Tamizh that he was chanting that
throughout the day, whenever he was free.  That was his sadhana.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 06, 2011, 10:21:48 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for a brilliant and illumining post (re-536).
During a certain stage of my sadhana why do I experience a void ? Because the seer of the empirical usage is absent. But still I am able to say that I experience a void, I slept happily etc. The True Seer is always there like the tenth man and the ever present illumination illumining the actors, stage, audience etc. both before and after the play. It is all indeed a divine play. Is it possible,otherwise, maya or no maya, that  I do not count myself and grieve for the tenth man ? When the mind of the subject-object has ceased and I do not see objects, the world and phenomena I say I see void. When I see void, my existence itself appears endangered forgetting that 'I am' is always there like the tenth man and even able to say that I see a void. Pity.  I do not see myself who  always is indicating as I, I, I, I...  and who in truth is the Seer of void as well as the emirical phenomena. Why I cannot indicate towards 'I' ? Can there ever be an experience without the truth of I-Consciousness ? Can sweets be sweet without sugar ? Can the inanimate be the animate without the Awareness ? So starkly obvious is the Existence. Yet we do not know It although that is ever known, ever realized.
(Posted by a mobile phone from a train)

Regards,
   Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 06, 2011, 01:05:57 PM


Dear Anil,

Yes.  The unrelenting ego, will give a variety of challenges, fear,
fear of void, feeling of death, etc., for its survival.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 06, 2011, 05:00:08 PM
Sri Bhagwan says that Meditation on Mahavakyas like “I am That“ and “I am the Supreme Being” implies mental imagery and is objective where as “Who am I ?” enquiry is subjective. “I am That” is a thought and Sri Bhagwan says that all thoughts are inconsistent with Realization. Seeking the Source, merging without thought as That and remaining as That free of any thought whatsoever is Knowledge, Jnana.

Mrs. Jennings, an American lady : Is not affirmation of God more effective than the quest, “Who am I ?“ Affirmation is positive, where as the other is negation. Moreover, it indicates separateness.

Sri Bhagwan : So long you seek to know how to realize, this advice is given to find your Self. Your seeking the method denotes your separateness.

D : Is it not better to say ‘I am the Supreme Being’ than ask ‘Who am I ?’

Sri Bhagwan : Who affirms ? There must be one to do it. Find that one.

D : Is not meditation better than investigation ?

Sri Bhagwan : Meditation implies mental imagery, where as investigation is for the Reality. The former is objective, where as the latter is subjective.

D : There must be a scientific approach to this subject.

Sri Bhagwan : To eschew unreality and seek the Reality is scientific.

                                            Talks, no. 338

Thank You,
      Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 06, 2011, 05:27:49 PM



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan called Brahman as ULLadu.  That which exists. It has
no other features.  Only upon realization, one finds It which has become now that One Man, to be of immense pleasure and bliss and effulgence.  All other forms are prayed only in dual state.  Who am I? takes one to the state of Being.  For some people like Muruganar, Annamalai Swami and one unknown Harijan, Sri Bhagavan asked them to chant silently Siva, Siva.  This again is telling only the Name and not keeping any of Siva's form in front.  This Name will takes you to the egoless state where one becomes Sivam. 

Sri Bhagavan says in Verse 8 of ULLadu Narpadu:

Under whatever name or form we worship it, it leads us to the knowledge of the nameless, formless Absolute Self.  Yet, to see one's own true Self in the Absolute, to subside into it, and be one with it, this is the true knowledge of the Truth.

Sri Bhagavan has also said in Verse 34 of ULLadu Narpadu:

The natural and true Reality for ever resides in the Heart of all -
not to realize It there and stay in It - but to quarrel - 'It is', 'It
is not', 'It has form', 'It has not form', 'It is one', 'It is two', 'It
is neither' -- these are all the mischief of maya.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 07, 2011, 08:16:02 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ulladu-That which exists. (Sat)
Narpadu- ? ( Does the word mean ‘Darshan’ ?)

“ This Name will take you to the egoless state. “
( Name is said to be of great spiritual importance. )
“Chanting the Name without keeping any form in front. “
It needs to be explained how chanting a Sacred Name without keeping the form and attributes in front associated with that Name can be possible. It sounds like ‘taking the medicine without the thought of a monkey’.

“Only upon Realization, one finds It which has become now that One Man, to be of immense pleasure and bliss and effulgence.”
Very nice sir.

Subsiding as jiva, merging, and remaining as That without any thought is Knowledge, Jnana.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 07, 2011, 08:17:11 AM
THERE IS NOTHING TO ATTAIN AND NO TIME TO WITHIN WHICH TO ATTAIN. YOU ARE ALWAYS THAT. YOU HAVE NOT GOT TO ATTAIN ANYTHING. YOU HAVE ONLY TO GIVE UP THINKING YOU ARE LIMITED, TO GIVE UP THNKING YOU ARE THIS BODY.

                                                  BHAGWAN SRI RAMANA
                     ( Printed on the back cover of the diary.2011, Sri Ramanasramam )

‘I’ limited is the ego, ‘I’ unlimited is the Supreme Self.

Limitation is mental. An element of imagination. A mere notion. The ego is not independent and apart from the Self. Sri Bhagwan says you have only to give up thinking you are limited, to give up thinking you are this body. Only the diabolic thought that ‘I am this body’ is at the root of this vicious ignorance. Once one is free from this thought, one subsides as the insignificant jiva, merges and remains as That free of any limiting thought. 

Thank You,
    Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 07, 2011, 08:48:20 AM



Dear Anil,

Narpadu means Chalis or forty.  Since the scripture has got 40 verses
excluding the 2 benedictory verses, it is called ULLadu Narpadu.
ULLadu is Sat.  Kavyakanta while translating in Sanskrit called it
Sat Darsanam.  Sat Darsanam is Sat Revealed. Sri Lakshmana Sarma
has called it Truth Revealed.

How to meditate without name and form.  Usually when we chant
a mantra like Siva, Siva,...or Rama, Rama, we try to get a picture of
Siva with matted hairs, serpents and third eye, or Rama with bow and arrow with Sita, Lakshman, and Hanuman.  This is not suggested here.  When you meditate you meditate them as Light
or Pure Space with in you.  Space and Light are beyond name and form.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 07, 2011, 02:19:39 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for giving the correct meaning of the word ‘Narpadu’.

Sri Ganapati Muni named his Sanskrit translation of  the ‘ULLadu Narpadu’ as the ‘Sat Darshanam’. Sri Laksman Sarma named his English translation of the Scripture as the ‘Truth Revealed’. And Sri T.M.P. Mahadevan named his English translation of the ‘Sacred Words’ as the Philosophy of Existence. Therefore, on the basis of the above, I simply tried to guess that the word ‘Narpadu’ may mean ‘Darshan’.

Dear sir, it so happens that when one chants Sri Bhagwan’s or Sri Arunachala’s Sacred Name, it begins with the name and form, but soon it is nameless and formless Light or the Pure Space, as you called It, not only within but all around as well as within.

Regards
  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 07, 2011, 02:23:47 PM
After surrendering your body, possessions and soul to the jnana-Guru, to regard any of them as ‘I’ or ‘mine’ is to commit the sin of stealing back what has been given away as a gift. You should know that avoiding this fault is the authentic worship of the Sadguru.

                                                                   V-317, Guru Vachaka Kovai

The same verse translated and printed in the Diary, 2011, Sri Ramanasramam, is as follows :

“Why do you still retain the attachment to the mental concepts of ‘I’ and ‘mine’ when, you have already offered up all those things to your Guru ?“

So after surrender, regarding this body as ‘I’ and anything as ‘mine’ is to commit the sin of stealing back what has been given away as a gift. 

Just below this verse in Sri David Godman edited version of the Guru Vachaka Kovai,
There are three statements of Sri Bhagwan which the ‘note’ at the bottom assigns as vv. 14,15, 16 of the Padamalai.

Sri Bhagwan :” If you completely surrender all your responsibilities to me, I will accept them as mine and manage them.

When bearing the entire burden remains my responsibility, why do you have any worries?

Why do you still retain this attachment to the mental concepts of ‘I’ and ‘mine’ when, on that day, you had offered up all those things to me, avowing them to be mine ?”

It is not only a sin to try to steal back what has been offered to the Guru as a gift, even in worldly order of things, it is preposterous to do so. Isn’t it ?

Thank You,
    Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 07, 2011, 03:10:40 PM



Dear Anil,

This is total surrender.  If there is total surrender, then God or Guru
will take all you burdens and manage them more efficiently.  But
we are all capable of only partial surrender.  This partial surrender,
is due to our not so easily forsaken ego.  We want the cake and eat it too.

Q: What is unconditional surrender?

Sri B: If one surrenders oneself there will be no one o ask this question or to be thought of.  Either the thoughts are eliminated
by holding on to the root-thought 'I' or one surrenders oneself unconditionally to the higher power.  These are only two ways for
realization.

Q:  Does not total or complete surrender require that one should not have left even the desire for liberation or God?

Sri B: Complete surrender does require that you have no desire of your own.  You must be satisfied with whatever God gives you and that means having no desires of your own.

Q: I find surrender is easier.  I want to adopt that path. 

Sri B: Surrender appears easy because people imagine that, once they say with their lips 'I surrender' and put their burdens on their Lord, they can be free and do what they like.  But the fact is that you can have no likes and dislikes after your surrender.  Your will should be completely non existent, the Lord's will taking its place.  The death of the ego in this way, brings about a state, which is not different from Jnana.

Q: Then Surrender is impossible.

Sri B: Yes. Complete surrender is impossible in the beginning. Partial surrender is certainly possible for all.  In course of time, that will lead to complete surrender.  Well, if surrender is impossible what can be done?  There is no peace of mind.  You are helpless to bring about it.  It can be done only by surrender.

In the Bhagavad Gita it says:  "The man who sheds all longing
and moves without concern, free from the sense of 'I' and 'mine' he attains Peace. [2.71].

Once Paul Brunton asked Sri Bhagavan: "Should I then leave all my possessions to attain God?"  Sri Bhagavan replied: "Leave the possessor too."



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 08, 2011, 08:39:50 AM
Ananyas cintayanto mam ye janah paryupasate,
Tesam nity’abhiyuktanam yoga-ksemam vahmy aham.

                                         V-22, Ch. 9, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

Ye janah-whoever
Ananyah-solely devoted to Me
Cintayantah-thinking of
Mam-Me
Parupasate-continuously worship
Nitya-bhiyuktanam-of those ever-steadfast devotees
Yogaksemam-protection and procurement of needs of yoga and as well as their worldly assets and interests

“Whoever, being solely devoted to Me, who are ever engaged in contemplation and worship of Me-to such ever-steadfast devotees I Myself ensure the protection and procurement of all their needs of yoga as well as their worldly assets and interests.”

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Your last post inspired me to cite the V. 9-22 which is considered a very important verse on the Path of Devotion and is always cited.

Understanding of one’s true relationship with the Divine is essential to succeed in any marga. In the above cited verse, ‘ananyah’ has been interpreted to mean loving Him  and looking upon Him as one’s OWN rather than ‘anya’, or different from him, a separate Power to be propitiated only for worldly favors. ‘Anya’ means ‘the other’, or a stranger. Therefore, ‘ananya’ is the opposite, and means one’s very Own. The one who is ever engaged in worship and contemplation of Him and is thus remains always absorbed in Him, is certain to neglect his worldly interests and even not care for yoga consisting in Knowledge (Jnana) and liberation. The Compassionate Lord assures that to such an unwavering and steadfast devotee He Himself ensures the protection as well as provisions regarding yoga and worldly necessities. Such devotion is Pure Love and no extraneous interests are involved in His adoration including liberation.

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan has said that partial surrender is possible for all and with time it becomes complete surrender. So long as the possessor is intact throwing its weight around and posing in the world as the sovereign lord, there is no use leaving only the possessions.

Dear sir, Jnana supports Bhakti and and Bhakti deepens Jnana. This is how I feel.

Thank you so much.

Regards,
  Anil               
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 08, 2011, 09:23:29 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes. 'Ananya' means without any thing other than You.  It denotes
Eka Chintana or a Single Thought.  Sri Bhagavan also mentions such
love without any other in Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam, Verse 5.
In this verse, He describes the love for everything as forms of
Arunachala, that is seeing everything as Sri Arunachala Swarupam.

He who, with Heart to You surrendered,
Beholds for ever You alone,
Sees all thins as forms of You
And loves and serves them as none other
Than the Self, O Aruna-Hill,
Triumphs because he is immersed
In You whose being is pure bliss.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 08, 2011, 01:19:26 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. “ …..seeing everything as Sri Arunachala Swarupam.”
Everything includes ‘oneself’ as well.

“……serves them as none other than the Self, O Aruna Hill, triumphs.”
Therefore, it follows :
“I Am I, the Self.”
 “ ‘I Am’ is you.”
 “ ‘You Are’ is I”
“  ‘ I Am’ is everything and All.

There is neither past nor any thing called future ; only Present ( PRESENCE ) is.

‘IS’, ‘AM’, and, ‘ARE’ are defined as the verb ‘TO BE’ in grammar. They are, in truth, the ‘ASI’ of the “ TAT TVAM ASI “
‘ASI’ is BE-ING and the Supreme Reality. ( SUMMA IRU )

Dear sir, I have with me a slightly different version of the translation of the Verse-5 of the ‘ Arunachal Pancharatnam’ which I savor like Nectar.

“He who dedicated his mind to Thee, seeing Thee, always beholds the universe as Thy form, who at all times glorifies Thee and loves Thee as none other than the Self, he is Master without peer, being One with Thee, Oh Arunachala ! and lost in Thy Bliss.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 08, 2011, 03:01:45 PM



Dear Anil,

The translation that you are having is also quite okay.  I think
this is from Arthur Osborne.  What I have given is Prof. K.
Swaminathan's translation.

Here Sri Bhagavan in the original Tamizh version uses the "ULLam"
which is Heart.  He did not say, manas or manam in Tamizh which
means mind. Hence Prof. K. Swaminathan has used the word Heart.
Otherwise both are same.

Smt. T.R. Kanakammal has translated as follows:

Arunachala!  That best of devotees who, taking Thee as the sole
refuge and having surrendered his all unto Thee, beholds with a
pure heart all the perceived world as Thine own Form.  He loves Thee as none other than his own Self, mingles non dually in Thee, and getting immersed in Thy form of Bliss, gains mukti and triumphs.



Arunachala Siva.         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 09, 2011, 08:51:46 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. I have Sri Osborne’s translation of the five most Sublime Verses ever of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam which I found them first in his popular ‘ Path Of Self Realization’ and the cited Verse was taken from this book.

Essence of all the three translations of the cited Verse is the same. Sri Osborne’s ‘mind to Thee’, Prof. Sri K. Swaminathan’s ‘with heart to you surrendered’ and Smt. T.R. Kanakammal’s ‘having surrendered his all unto Thee’ convey essentially the same meaning. However, it cannot be without deep implication that Sri Bhagwan uses the word ‘ULLam’ which means ‘Heart’ rather than ‘manas’ which means the mind.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 09, 2011, 08:53:50 AM
I give Mukti to some, but Bhakti seldom.
                     
                  Verse. 6-18, Bhagavata


In Srimad Bhagavad Gita, Lord says that of all the Bhaktas, Jnani Bhakta is dearest to Him.

Question : What is the relation between jnana and bhakti ?
Sri Bhagwan : The eternal, unbroken, natural state of abiding in the Self is jnana. To abide in the Self you must love the Self. Since God is verily the Self, love of the Self is love of God; and that is bhakti. Jnana and bhakti are thus one and the same.

                                      Maharshi’s Gospel

So, Sri Bhagwan’s Path is the Grand Synthesis of Jnana (Knowledge) and Love (Devotion). I love ’me’ and ‘mine’ which are the reflected consciousness of the Self. Therefore, love for ‘me’ and ‘mine’ is in truth love for the Self. I love my children because I love myself which again is the love for the Self. A Jnani Bhakta sees in everything Shiva who is none other than His own Self  and loves all as Siva-Swarupam.
One seeks the Self because one loves the Self whether one is conscious as such or not.

Thank You,
     Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 09, 2011, 09:03:47 AM
Dear Devotees and Seekers,

Sri Bhagwan's Statement quoted in my last post has been taken from Maharshi's Gospel. This Statement has been quoted in the Guru Vachaka Kovai on page 318, just below the Verse 730. Just below this Statement, Sri Bhagwan's own Composition No.13 has been interpolated.

" As Iswara exists as the Self, meditation on the Self is devotion to the Supreme Lord. "

                                   Sri Bhagwan, Verse. 13, Guru Vachaka Kovai

Thank You,
    Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 09, 2011, 09:33:48 AM



Dear Anil,

Love towards God or Bhakti evolves as Surrender.

Sri Bhagavan has said about surrender in many conversations He
had with devotees.

Q:  What is the drift of the mind after surrender?

Sri B: Is the surrendered mind raising the question?

Q: By constantly desiring to surrender, I hope that increasing grace
is experienced.

Sri B: Surrender once for all and be done with desire. So long as
the sense of doership is retained there is the desire.  That is also
personality.  If this goes, the Self is said to shine forth pure.  The sense of doership is the bondage and not the actions themselves.

"Be still and know that I am God."  Here stillness, is total surrender without a vestige of individuality.  Stillness will prevail and there
will be no agitation of mind.  Agitation of mind is the cause of desire, the sense of doership and personality.  If that is stopped,
there is quiet.  There 'knowing' means 'being'.  It is not the relative knowledge involving the triads, knowledge, knowing and known.

Q: Is the thought 'I am God' or 'I am the Supreme Being' helpful?

Sri B:  "I am that I am". " I am" is God, not thinking 'I am God'.
Realize "I am" and do not think 'I am'.  'Know I am God', it is said and not 'Think I am God'.

All talk of surrender is like pinching a bit of jaggery from a jaggery image of Lord Ganesa, and offering it as Naivdya to the same Lord Ganesa.  You say you offer your body, soul and all possessions to God.  Were they yours that you could offer them?  At best, you can only say, 'I falsely imagined till now that all these which are
yours as mine.  Now I realize that they are yours.  I shall no more act as if they are mine.'.  This knowledge that there is nothing but God or Self, that I and mine don't exist and that only the Self exists, is Jnana.  Thus there is no difference between Bhakti and Jnana.  Bhakti is Jnana mata or the mother of Jnana. 



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 09, 2011, 03:41:42 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,


“Swaswarupanusandhanam bhaktirityabhidhiyate.”
( Reflection on one’s Self is called bhakti.)
                               Vivek Chudamani

Sri Bhagwan has revealed that the Self of the Advaitins is the God of the Bhaktas.

Ji. Yes. ‘All talk of surrender is like pinching a bit of jaggery from a jaggery image of the Lord.’ Nothing whatsoever is mine. Body, soul and all possessions are His only.

Sri Bhagwan : To say that one is apart from the Primal Source is itself a pretension; to add that one divested of the ego becomes pure and yet retains individuality only to enjoy or serve the Supreme is a deceitful stratagem. What duplicity is this – first to appropriate what is really His, and then pretend to experience or serve Him ! Is not all this already known to Him ?
                                            Talks, no. 208

Yes. Knowledge means Being. Or, the other way round, ‘ Being is Knowledge.’
Therefore, Be-ing and Knowledge are one and the same.

Ji. Yes. ‘ Stillness is total surrender without a vestige of individuality.’

Sri Bhagwan says that eternal, unbroken, natural state is Jnana. Does it not imply love of Self, is it not bhakti ?

Thank you so much for a very nice and inspiring post.

Regards,
  Anil

       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 09, 2011, 05:05:40 PM



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan's philosophical pronouncements are very similar to those upheld by the followers of Advaita Vedanta.  But one should
remember Sri Bhagavan and Advaitins agree on most theoretical
matters, but their attitudes to practice are radically different.

1. While Sri Bhagavan advocated self-inquiry, most advaitic teachers, recommended a system of meditation, which mentally affirmed that the Self is the only Reality.  These affirmations such as 'I am Brahman' or 'I am He', are usually used as mantra, or more rarely, one meditates on their meaning and tries to experience the implications of the statement.  Because self inquiry often starts with the question 'Who am I?', many of the traditional followers of advaita assumed that he answer to the question is "I am Brahman", and they occupied their minds with repetitions of this mental solution.  Sri Bhagavan criticized this approach by saying the mind is constantly engaged in finding or repeating  solutions to the question, it would never sink into its Source and disappear.   He was equally critical, for the same reason, of those who tried to use 'Who am I?' as a mantra, saying that both approaches missed the point of self inquiry.  The question Who am I? is not an invitation to anlayze the mindand to come to conclusions about its nature, nor is it a mantra or formula, it is simply a tool which facilitates redirecting the attention from the objects of thought and perception to the thinker or perceiver of them.

2. Another widespread misunderstanding arose from the Hindu belief that the Self could be discovered by mentally rejecting all the objects of thought and perception as non-Self.  Traditionally this is called the neti-neti approach [not this, not this].  The practitioner of this system verbally rejects all the objects that the 'I' identifies with - I am not the mind, I am not the body, etc., - in the expectation that the real 'I' will eventually be experienced in the pure uncontaminated form.   However, Sri Bhagavan's attitude to this traditional system was wholly negative and He discouraged His own followers from practicing it by telling that it is an intellectual activity which could not take them beyond the mind.  He answered them by saying that this not-I system will never eliminate itself.
Thus neti neti can be practiced only for sometime and thereafter one should stick to the I thought and find its Source.

3. Again regarding Heart-Centre, He said that it is again only for beginners, who persist in identifying with their bodies.  He said that the Heart is not located anywhere in the body and that from the highest standpoint it is equally true that that the I-thought
arises and subsides into this center.  When He said - Find the source of the mind - what He meant was not concentrate on any center in the body and but the Heart as It is.  Heart is everywhere, eternal and it is Pure Space.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 10, 2011, 08:22:20 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

The philosophical aspect of Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching is, no doubt, almost the same as the Advaita philosophy. As I understand, the Self-enquiry is the ancient Vedantic sadhana. However, Atma Vichara as taught by Sri Bhagwan is a new path evolved to suit the needs of the ‘modern man’ in the present era of rampant materialism. The greatness of Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching, in my view, lies in that it at once shifted the focus, the attention of the perceiver or the thinker on to himself from the objective world. “ Who Am I ? “ enquiry is not a mantra to be chanted or even to be mentally repeated but simply a tool to turn the attention of the seekers to his subjective consciousness and seek with one-pointed mind its Source. Thus, The Atma Vichara as taught by Sri Bhagwan is radically different from the traditional forms of sadhana adopted by Advaitins.

Sri Bhagwan : “ When the Reality is mentioned why do you continue to meditate Sivohan or Aham Brahmasmi ? The significance must be traced and understood. It is not enough to repeat the bare words or think of them. “ ( Talk-146 )

Sri Bhagwan : “ The other methods are meant only for those who cannot take to the investigation of the Self. Even to repeat Aham Brahmasmi or think of it, a doer is necessary. Who is it ? It is ‘I’. Be that ‘I’. It is the direct method. The other methods also will ultimately lead everyone to this method of the investigation of the Self.” ( Talk- 266 )

“ The other methods also will ultimately lead everyone to the investigation of the Self. “ It is obvious that Atma Vichara as revealed by Sri Bhagwan is a ‘New Path’ which being a fusion of Jnana and Bhakti, heralds a new ‘dawn’ for the seekers and devotees from all over the world transcending all false physical and mental barriers.

Heart is not physical. The Heart is the Centre from which everything springs. Sri Bhagwan says that because we see the body, the world and so on, it is said that there is a Centre for these which is called the Heart and a physical location is given for It.
Heart is the Self. It is not within and without.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 10, 2011, 09:36:33 AM



Dear Anil,

Traditional Advaita Vedanta [see Viveka Choodamani] says that one
should go to a competent guru and listen to him [sravanam], remember his teachings [mananam] and contemplate on them
[nididhyasanam] and then attain Brahma Jnana in Samadhi.

Sri Bhagavan however said that a Guru is always not externally necessary. One's Atma is one's own Guru.  Of course, He said that
there could be both external guru and internal guru  in some cases.
In such cases, the Atma is puling the mind back into the Self and the external guru is pushing the mind from outside into the Self.

Similarly He said that there can be anthra-sravana, anthra-manana,
anthra nididhyasana, i.e internal hearing, remembering and contemplating. 

Sri Bhagavan said that about renunciation, that internal renunciation is most important and not external renunciation,
like leaving the wife and children and going into forests with an
ochre robe.  One can still remain in house and attain Brahma
Jnana.

Regarding suffering and morality, He said that if one could overcome the ego, there is no suffering either to him or to others
and there are no morals, because morals are based on the mental imaginations.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 10, 2011, 01:58:15 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji.Yes. Traditional Advaita Vedanta teaches hearing ( Sravanam ), reflection or contemplation ( mananam ), one-pointedness  (nididhyasanam ). Sri Bhagwan says that if all these are accomplished, Samadhi results. However, Sri Bhagwan says that sravana (hearing) from the Master, manana (reflection) etc. are aids.

Sri Bhagwan :

a.   To remove ignorance completely, he has to hear the truth repeatedly, until his knowledge of the subject-matter becomes perfect.
b.   To remove doubts, he must reflect on what he has heard; ultimately his knowledge will be free from doubts of any kind.
c.   To remove the wrong identity of the Self with the non-Self ( such as the body, the senses, the mind or the intellect ) his mind must become one-pointed.
                                                         Talk-249
In Talk no. 289, Sri Bhagwan says:
“ This truth mentioned is in the stage of the hearing of the Truth ( sravana ). That is not drdha ( firm). For making it unshaken, one has to practice reflection ( manana ) and one-pointedness ( nididhyasana ). These two processes scorch the seeds of vasanas so that they are rendered ineffective. “

From the above statements of Sri Bhagwan, it follows that sravana, manana and nididhyasana can be aids even in Vichara and can be considered preparatory to it. But it is true that Sri Bhagwan first advised everyone who approached him to practice Vichara straight away. Only when a devotee expressed his inability to pursue Self-enquiry or expressed his liking for any other practice that He established him by His Sacred Utterances on that very path of his choice.   

Sri Bhagwan has revealed that Guru, Self, and God are One. Therefore, the Self is the Inner Guru pulling from inside. So, if one is internalized, the Self as the Inner Guru pulls him from inside to the Centre. However, if one is not able to look within, an External Guru is necessary to push and internalize him from outside.

Dear sir, you have mentioned about ‘anthra-sravana’ ( internal hearing ), ‘anthra- manana’ ( internal manana ), and ‘anthra- nididhyasana’ ( internal contemplation or one-pointedness ). Will you kindly elaborate them further ?                                                                                                                                           

Thank you so much sir.

Regards’
  Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 10, 2011, 02:50:13 PM


Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan says in Talks No. 57:-

Some people think that there are different stages in Jnana.  The
Self is nitya paroksha i.e. ever realized, knowingly or unknowingly.
Sravana, they argue , should therefore be aparoksha jnana [directly
experienced.], and not paroksha janana [indirect knowledge]. 
But Jnana should result in duhkha nivritti [loss of misery], whereas
Sravana alone does not bring it about.  Therefore they say, though aparoksha, it is not unshaken; the rising of the vasanas is the cause of being being weak and not unchanging.  When vasanas
are removed, Jnana becomes unshaken and bears fruit.

Others say sravana is only paroksha jnana [indirect knowledge].
By manana [reflection], it becomes aparoksha spasmodically.  The obstruction to its continuity is the vasanas.  They rise up with reinforced vigor after manana.  They must be held in check.  Such vigilance consists in remembering - I am not the body - and adhering to the aparoksha anubhava [direct experience], which has
been had in course of manana [reflection].  Such practice is called nididhyasana and eradicates the vasanas.  Then dawns the Sahaja state.  This is Jnana, sure.

The point is further clarified in Talks No. 95:

.......Hearing the Truth [sravana] is of two kinds.  The ordinary one is to hear it enunciated and explained by a master.  However the right one is to raise the question for oneself [anthra sravana] and seek find the answer in oneself and find the answer as the unbroken "I-I".   To be reflecting on this experience [anthra manana] is the second stage.  To remain one pointed in it [anthra nididhyasana] is the third stage. 

*

Everything happens internally - anthra, within seeker's own self.                 



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 11, 2011, 08:48:25 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

When devotees narrated their experiences to Sri Bhagawan, Sri Bhagwan clarified that Jnana or the Pure Knowledge is the basis of everything that is, and is present in each and every experience as the ‘sruti note’. Jnana is ONE Integral Whole and admits of no division, no stage and no part whatsoever. However, Sri Bhagwan has said that there may be stages in one’s experience of Knowledge.

Ji. Yes. All happenings are internal, within oneself only. Therefore, internal hearing, reflection and one-pointedness are certainly more efficacious. Sri Bhagwan’s Sacred Utterances are the Supreme Words of Wisdom, over and above all the sastras or the scriptures put together. Sri Bhagwan has said that sravana, manana etc. are aids. Sri Bhagwan taught His loving and adoring devotees two methods i.e. either enquire or surrender. Sri Bhagwan has also clarified that Atma Vichara and Bhakti are one and the same  and the difference is only in words. Hence, we, at no cost whatever, can swerve away from the Vichara, the Royal Straight Marga, as taught by Him, to lanes and by-lanes.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 11, 2011, 08:50:21 AM
What is bhakti ?

Sri Bhagwan :

“ To think of God. That means: only one thought prevails to the exclusion of all other thoughts. That thought is of God which is the Self or it is the Self surrendered unto God. When He has taken you up nothing will assail you. The absence of thoughts is bhakti. It is also mukti.

The jnana method is said to be vichara (enquiry). That is nothing but ‘supreme devotion’ (parabhakti). The difference is in words only.”

“ Jnana is said to be ‘ekabhakti’ ( single-minded devotion ).”

                                                   Talks, no. 650

The above statement of Sri Bhagwan settles it and leaves no room for doubt that it is futile to dispute that Jnana and Bhakti are two independent paths. To me, it looks that Jnana and Bhakti, as we understand them, are mutually complementary. I also feel that as a sadhak or a seeker, it is wisdom not to distinguish the one from the other. Love the Self and seek It frantically as if it is the question of life and death, like a drowning man frantically trying to come to the surface.

Thank you,
    Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 11, 2011, 08:52:32 AM
Meditation is only mental imagination of conceiving oneself to be supreme reality that shines as sat-chit-ananda. Enquiry is to establish the mind in the Self such that the seed of false delusion (mind) perishes.
                                                         Verse-738, GVK edited by Sri David Godman

How can one’s source, which can be experienced only after the ego-self has been completely annihilated, be thought of, via the ego, as ‘I am That’ ? To remain silent in one’s ‘I’ (the Self), with the ego destroyed, is the proper 9course).
                                                           
                                                           Verse- 740, GVK edited by Sri David Godman

So, meditation on Mahavakya such as ‘I am That’ is only mental imagination of conceiving himself to be That. Supreme need is to annihilate the ego-mind. The great poet asks how can the Self be experienced employing that which is to be annihilated, via the same ego ? Is it not akin to asking the thief who parades as the policeman to catch the same thief ? One has to go beyond, transcend, the pretension of the ego-mind.

Thank you,
    Anil
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 11, 2011, 09:38:28 AM



Dear Anil,

While Sri Bhagavan's direct method is Self Inquiry,  His insistence
on the Subjective Awareness of 'I' as the only means of reaching the
Self colored His attitude towards the practice of devotion [bhakti] and worship which are usually associated with surrender to God.   He never discouraged His devotees from following such practices, but He pointed out that any relationship with God [devotee, worshipper, servant etc.,] was an illusory once since God alone exists.  True devotion, therefore, He said, is to remain as one really is, in the state of being in which all ideas about relationships with God ceased to exist.       

Sri Bhagavan Himself admitted that spontaneous and complete
surrender of the 'I' by self inquiry/self surrender was an impossible
goal for many people and so He sometimes advised His followers to undertake preliminary exercises which would cultivate their devotion and control their minds.

Most of these practices involved devotion of or meditating on God or the Guru either by constantly repeating his name[japa] or by
visualizing his form, [dhyana].  He told  His devotees that if this was done regularly with love and devotion, then the mind would become effortlessly absorbed in the object of meditation.  Once this has been achieved complete surrender becomes easier.  The constant awareness of God prevents the mind from identifying with other objects and enhances the conviction that God alone exists.
It also produces a reciprocal flow of power or grace from the Self which weakens the hold of the 'I'-thought and destroys the vasanas which perpetuate and reinforce its existence.    Eventually, the
'I'-thought is reduced to manageable proportions and with a little self-attention it can be made to sink temporarily in the Heart.

When all the outgoing tendencies of the mind have been dissolved in the repeated experiences of being, the Self destroys the vestigial 'I'-thought so completely that it never rises again.  This final destruction takes place only if the self surrender has been completely motiveless.  If it is done with a desire for grace or the Self-realization, it can never be more than a partial surrender, a business transaction in which the 'I'-thought makes an effort in the expectation of receiving a reward.

[David Godman]



Arunachala Siva.
           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 11, 2011, 03:03:52 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

You have mentioned in your post that Sri Bhagwan’s insistence on the subjective awareness of ‘I’ as the only means of reaching the Self colored His attitude towards the practice of devotion (bhakti) and worship which are usually associated with surrender to God. But I feel that since Sri Bhagwan was Lord Sri Arunachala Incarnate, nothing could have colored or influenced His Spiritual Utterances. On the contrary, I feel that He re-enunciated the Path of Bhakti ( Devotion) in the ‘Light of Supreme Reality’, rearranged its philosophical contents and took it to a new level. Moreover, by His Supreme and Sublime Love for Sri Arunachala, He Himself demonstrated what ‘ekabhakti’ ( single-minded devotion ) is.

Only God is. He alone exists. In Reality, there is no devotee, no servant and no worshipper as you mentioned. Therefore, any relationship with God either as a devotee, or a servant, or a worshipper, is illusory and unreal and is based on an element of ignorance. So, Sri Bhagwan could not have guided or advised His devotees to nurture a relationship with God which assumed jivas and God as two separate entities. Instead, He asked His devotees to remain in the state of being in which all ideas about relationship with God ceased to exist. He said that this is ‘parabhakti’ ( Supreme Devotion ).

Dear sir, complete surrender, all at once, either by enquiry or by self-surrender, is possible for only a few advanced seekers who have already burnt their predisposition by efforts, either in previous or this birth.

I feel that as preliminary or preparatory practices, Sri Bhagwan seems to have preferred chanting the Sacred Names or meditating on the Form of God or the Guru.

Ji. Yes. So long as the ‘I’-thought or the ego makes efforts in the expectation of a reward, even if it is for Self-Realization, it is a hindrance in Realization. Expectation itself is due to lingering duality. Sri Bhagwan says, “ OUR GLORY LIES WHERE WE CEASE TO EXIST.”

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 11, 2011, 03:55:09 PM



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan also permitted partial surrender.  If partial surrender
is sustained unremittingly, it will evolve into total surrender and self
surrender.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 12, 2011, 08:04:41 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan has said that complete surrender in the beginning is impossible but partial surrender is possible for all. With perseverance, the partial surrender is evolved into complete surrender. You have also mentioned that partial surrender, if persisted, is evolved into complete surrender. What is partial surrender ? How should it be practiced or observed ? How should one who has surrendered partially conduct himself in the world ? There is a question regarding complete surrender also. How the saying, “ Advaita is not to be applied to the Guru even if it is applied to the whole world “ is to be  reconciled with the complete surrender?

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan , in certain cases, has even allowed pranayama as an aid. But the pranayama He has recommended is the ‘pranayama of jnana’ as opposed to ‘pranayama of yoga’. In ‘pranayama of jnana’, ‘rechaka’is ‘naham’, ‘puraka’ is ‘koham’, and ‘kumbhaka’ is ‘soham’. But He seems to have preferred ‘watching the breath’ rather than achieving breath control by pranayama violently.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil
       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 12, 2011, 08:53:28 AM
I am a slave of My devotees. I am as it were without freedom. For My heart is in the grip of the devotee; for, such is My love of the devotee.

                                                                         Bhagavata, S.K. 9-63



O Arjuna, the greatest of the Bharata race ! Four kinds of pious men adore Me. They are the distressed one, the knowledge-seeker, the wealth seeker, and the knower.

                                                                      Verse 7-16, Srimad Bhagavad Gita


Among them, the knower ( or the man of wisdom ), ever-communing and single-minded in devotion, is the best. I am indeed supremely dear to such a knower, and he in turn is dear to Me.

                                                                         Verse  7-17, Srimad Bhagavad Gita
( This Verse has been selected and included by Sri Bhagwan in ‘The Song Celestial’. )


While all of them are certainly noble, the knower I cherish as very self-such is My view. For, ever in union with Me, he is established in the conviction that I am his highest goal.

                                                                         Verse  7-18, Srimad Bhagavad Gita


Lord says that knower among them is the best devotee. Such a devotee feels ‘God as his own’ and God is in the grip of such a devotee too and loves him as His own, conveying the sense that they are One. The Bhakta of this type is called a Jnani in this Verse. Such a Bhakta seeks nothing from God, not even Realization. In Verse 7-17, the Great Lord says, “ eka-bhaktir visisyate “. The one ever-communing, single-minded in devotion is the best. It is as if Sri Bhagwan is Himself addressing the great warrior Arjuna. Isn’t it ?

Thank you,
    Anil   


 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 12, 2011, 09:36:38 AM



Dear Anil,

Ardent one pointed devotion to God is extolled by Sri Bhagavan as
an equally effective technique like self inquiry.

Q:  If what is destined to happen will happen, is there any use in
prayer or effort or should we just remain idle?

Sri Bhagavan:  There are only two ways to conquer destiny or be
independent of it.  One is to inquire for whom is this destiny and discover that only the ego is bound by destiny and not the Self,
and that the ego is non-existent. The other way is to kill the ego
by completely surrendering to the Lord, by realizing that one's
helplessness and saying all the time, "Not I but thou, O Lord",
and giving up the sense of "I" and "mine" and leaving it to the
Lord to do what he likes with you.  Surrender can never be regarded as complete so long as the devotee wants this or that from the Lord.  True surrender is love of God for the sake of love and nothing
else, not even for the sake of moksha or liberation.  In other words,
complete effacement of the ego is necessary to conquer destiny,
whether you achieve this effacement through self inquiry or through bhakti marga.

[Day by Day with Sri Bhagavan, Devaraja Mudaliar].

Saint Manikkavachagar says:  "See He is caught in my net of bhakti!"



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 12, 2011, 01:30:53 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji.Yes. ‘Eka-bhaktir visisyate.’ Ardent, one-pointed, ever-communing and single-minded Bhakti is as infallible as the Straight Path of Atma-Vichara. Nay, Sri Bhagwan has said that ‘Eka-bhaktir’ and Atma-Vichara are one and the same. One is merged into the Self and the other is ever One with God, or the Guru. May I say that the Self of Vichara is the God of Bhakti ?

‘Not I but Thou, O Lord ! After complete surrender, there is no ‘I’, only Be-ing is. ‘Only Thou , O Lord !

Saint Sri Manikkavachagar: See. He is caught in my net of Bhakti.

Such is the greatness of Bhakti.

Dear sir, will you kindly give us the complete verse ? 

“ Sa tu karmajnanyogebhyah api adhiktara.’
( Parabhakti is better than action, Jnana and Yoga. )
Verse-25, Narad-Bhakti Sutra

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 12, 2011, 01:44:46 PM



Dear Anil,

This is a long poem in Tiruvachakam, called Tiru Anda Pahuthi, which describes the formation of universe, and man's ways to reach Siva.
It runs to 182 lines.

A few lines before the line I quoted are:

See, He is Primordial, He is the Ancient,
See, He is not seen by Brahma and Vishnu,  He is the High Master,
See, He is wondrous, He is also many,
See, He is beyond words,
See, He is beyond our mind, where the mind cannot reach,
See He is caught in the net of bhakti....



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 12, 2011, 03:29:21 PM
Dear sir,

Thank you so much for citing seven golden lines from Tiruvachakam.

Sri Bhagwan spoke very highly of Tiruvachakam and often cited Its Verses. Is an English translation of the same available ?

Regards,
   Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 12, 2011, 03:50:03 PM



Dear Anil,

There is an English translation by Dr. G.U. Pope written in 1900
and published by Clarendon Press, U.K.  This book may not be
available now.  But you can read it in www.Shaivam.org.  This
web gives many Tamizh Saiva scriptures and some English translations.  You can see for Tirumurai 8 and see G.U. Pope's
translations.  It runs to about 100 pages and you can down load
it.  The English is Victorian English.  And in some places, the translations are not accurate.  However, it is the best translation in English so far.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 13, 2011, 10:20:44 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for giving the invaluable information regarding the Tiruvachakam.
I  read Sri Bhagwan’s narration of how the Tiruvachakam was sung by the Saint Sri Manikkavachagar and inked by Lord Shiva Himself. The Mahabharata is also said to be composed in the similar way. Maharshi Sri Vyasa composed the Verses which were inked by Lord Ganesha Himself. Whenever I read a citation from this Great Work (Tiruvachakam), particularly from Sri Bhagwan, I experienced a stirring. Hence, I always wished to study this Sublime Work.

Dear sir, question of application of Advaita does not arise in complete surrender, for, after complete surrender, only the Guru or God remains.  Then there is neither ‘I’ nor ‘mine’. Only Thou, O Lord !

Regards,
  Anil   




Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 13, 2011, 10:21:59 AM
As snow in water, let me melt as love in Thee who art love Itself, Oh Arunachala !

                                                        Verse-101, Akshara Mana Malai


Sa twasmin param premrupa //

                          S-2, Narad-Bhaktisutra

That Bhakti is Supreme Love for God.


Amritswarupa  cha //

                          S-3, Narad-Bhaktisutra

This Bhakti is not only premrupa but is also ‘Amritswarupa’.


So, the Bhakti is Pure Love for the Lord and tastes like ‘Nectar’.



The man of spiritual insight, established in same-sightedness, sees the Self as residing in all beings and all beings as resting in the Self.
                                                                          V-29, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

He who sees Me in all beings, and all beings in Me- to him I am never lost, nor he to Me.

                                                                            V-30, Sri Mad Bhagavad Gita

 In the above cited two Verses from Sri Mad Bhagavad Gita, it is important to note that in  Verse-29  the devotee is said to see the Self in all and all in this Self. But in the very next Verse (30)  the Self is replaced by ‘I’, the Supreme Lord, indicating that the Self is verily the God, that there is a basic unity of both.

The above two Verses also teach the highest principle of ethics. To do towards the others as for one’s own self. ‘Seeing the Self in all and all in the Self’ will certainly drive away the self-centredness. Objective consciousness then is bound to diminish resulting in the expansion of the subjective consciousness. The substantiality of the shadow of a tree is subordinated by the substantiality of the presence of the tree itself. One Self  then becomes a matter of experience.

Thank you,
    Anil
         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 13, 2011, 10:59:33 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.   Sri Bhagavan has expressed the same idea in Sri Arunachala
Pancharatnam, Verse 5:

He, who, with Heart to You surrendered,
Beholds for ever you alone,
Sees all things as forms of You,
And loves and serves them as none other
Than the Self, O Aruna Hill,
Triumphs because he is immersed
In You, whose being is pure bliss.

[Tr: Prof. K. Swaminathan}



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 13, 2011, 03:24:11 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Srimad Bhagavad Gita is said to be the Essence of the Upanishads. Sri Bhagwan is that Essence Embodied and is, therefore, the Final Authority.

The Five Verses of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam are the most sublime Verses I have ever read. As I understand, the first Verse is the invocation for the Grace and Compassion  of Sri Arunachala, in the second Verse the Self is symbolized by Sri Arunachala as the Supreme Truth who is at the Core of all existence- jivas as well as the jagat, the third Verse deals with the Path of Atma-Vichara or the Self-enquiry, the fourth Verse deals with the Path of Yoga, and the fifth and the final Verse deals with the Path of Bhakti culminating in ‘Eka-Bhakti’- when the devotee sees all things as His forms and loves and serves them as none other than the Self.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 13, 2011, 03:28:20 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes. The first verse is Arunachala's Swarupa Lakshanam.  The second
verse is Its Atma Lakshanam.  The third verse is on self inquiry.
The fourth is on dhayna/yoga marga.  The fifth is karma and bhakti
marga.  These verses were first written by Sri Bhagavan in Sanskrit
and then in Tamizh.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 14, 2011, 10:12:36 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,       

Will you kindly explain ‘Swarupa Lakshanam’ and ‘Atma Lakshanam’ as revealed in the Verse-1 and Verse-2 of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam ? In Verse-5, Sri Bhagwan says that “… sees all things as forms of You; and loves and serves them as none  other than the Self, O Arunachala ! “ which certainly implies ‘Parabhakti’ as well as ‘nishkamya karma’. 

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 14, 2011, 10:13:49 AM
Let your mind be absorbed in Me. Be devoted to Me, sacrifice unto Me, and bow down to Me. Thus, having Me as your highest goal, and united with Me in mind, you shall come to Me alone.
                                      Verse. 9-34, Srimad Bhagvad Gita

Sri Bhagwan says ( page 143, GVK, edited by Sri David Godman ) that whenever in the Gita it is said, ‘ serve Me, surrender to Me, I am everything ‘, it relates to the Atma-swarupa and not to the form wearing sankha, charka, gada, and four arms. The references made by all mahatmas to ‘I’ are to that Atma-swarupa and not to the body.

We must also remember that whenever Sri Bhagwan referred to ‘I’, It was to the ‘Atma-swarupa’ and not to His body.


Those who have drunk deeply of devotion through a mind that has become ripe through devotion will, as the reward for their devotion, crave only surging, supreme devotion (parabhakti), the ever-fresh ambrosia of devotion itself.
                                                                        V. 720, GVK, edited by Sri David Godman


When you investigate you find that both parabhakti (supreme devotion ) and jnana are identical in revealing swarupa. To claim that, out of these two, one is but the means to the other is due to not knowing the real nature of either.
                                                                         V. 722, GVK, edited by Sri David Godman
       
Sri Muruganar says in his commentary on the above Verses that since parabhakti is only the loss of the ego, this state is indeed jnana-swarupa.

Sri Bhagwan : To remain, through the power of contemplation, in the state of pure being, beyond thought, is the essential nature of supreme bhakti. ( p-314, GVK )

So, Supreme Bhakti is to remain in the state of ‘Pure Being’, beyond thought. Jnana is to merge into and abide as the Self, beyond thought. And the Self is the Pure Being. Sri Bhagwan said to Sri Dilip Kumar Roy, the famous musician in the Aurbindo Ashram, that Bhakti is the mother of Jnana but at the same time cautioned Sri Kanappa, a blind devotee against ‘devotional emotion’ as mentioned in the GVK edited by Sri Godman on page314,315. The contradictory advice given to two devotees should be understood in the light of Sri Bhagwan’s Statement that Parabhakti is to remain in the State of Pure Being.

Thank you,
   Anil

   

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 14, 2011, 10:46:40 AM



Dear Anil,

Swarupa Lakshanam  - The characteristics of the Self.  It is an ocean
of grace.  It is like the sun which swallows all the darkness.  It is again like the sun which makes the lotus blossom.

Atma Lakshanam - The Self is only the one without a second.  The
mind, the ego, i.e. the jivas rise from It, are sustained by It and are
dissolved in It.  It is the Heart.  From the Heart, the ego rises, it is sustained by the Heart and finally gets dissolved by the Heart.   

Arunachala is Swarupam, its characteristics.

Arunachala is Atma.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 14, 2011, 03:00:23 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. This is a very nice explanation. Sri Arunachala is Swaruupam. Sri Arunachala confers 'Knowledge of Swarupam' to whoever meditates on Him in the heart.Sri Arunachala is Existence, Consciousness, and Bliss, or, Swarupam.

Sri Arunachala is the Self, the Atman who dances in the hearts as 'I'. Heart is His Name. Sri Arunachala is Atma Swarupam.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 15, 2011, 08:47:38 AM
The Lord resides in the hearts of all, O Arjuna, revolving all creatures by His Power ( Prakriti),as if mounted on a machine.
                                          Verse 18-61, Srimad Bhagavad Gita and selected as  V-41, The Song Celestial

Sri Bhagwan says that since people think  that we are jivas that Lord Sri Krishna says that God resides in the Heart as the operator of the jivas. In fact there is no jiva and there is no operator.Only the Self is. Self comprises all-the screen, the pictures, the spectators, the actor, the operator-all else- as well as the light by which are illumined all. Confounding  All-Pervading Self with the body and imagining myself as an actor,  Sri Bhagwan says, amounts to the spectator being represented  as an actor in a cinema picture. Can one imagine an actor in a cinema picture asking if he could enact a scene without the screen ? Sri Bhagwan says that this is similar to the case of a man who imagines his acting apart from the Self.

Spectators cannot act in a cinema picture. But our thinking that we are the body and the actor amounts exactly  to  that.  In Truth, there never is a time when we are apart from the Self.

Thank you,
   Anil           
                                                                                 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 15, 2011, 09:12:51 AM



Dear Anil,

There is no jivatma and Paramatma.  There is only One Atma. 
Sri Bhagavan says in Who am I?:  It is the mind which is called
Jiva or Sukshma Sarira.  It is this mind-body complex that causes
not knowing our real nature, that is Atma.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 15, 2011, 04:36:02 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. The question in my mind now arises how the Eternal Self which is Pure Knowledge, Pure Intelligence, begins to identify Itself with the gross and subtle bodies which are subject to birth and death and which are prone to disease and death ?

Adi Sri Sankara says :

Just as a clear crystal (itself colourless) appears red, blue, yellow, etc. according to the background, so also the Self, pure and untainted, seems to be identical with the body, the senses, the mind, intellect or blissful ignorance (panch kosas) when in contact with them.
                                                                                                                                 V-15, Atma Bodha

Just as husking the paddy exposes the grain within (rice), so also should one judiciously separate the pure atman from the sheaths covering it.
                                                                                                                                      V-16, Atma Bodha

So, the Self although devoid of qualities, attributes and upadhis and is pure by nature, assumes the qualities, attributes and upadhis of the physical bodies much like the crystal which assumes the color of  the object in which it is placed and, thus,  causing It to imagine, through the sensory organs entrenched in the sheaths, that I am this body, I am a man, I am a father etc.

After receiving blows after blows at the hands of the destiny, jivas finally realizes this deplorable state of affairs and after reflecting and discriminating, spiritual sadhana for Peace begins.

“ Knowledge cannot arise by any other means than by inquiry ( vichara ), just as the sight of things is impossible without light. “
                                                                  V-11, Aparoksanubhuti, Sri Adi Sankara

Therefore, intense enquiry into the nature of the Self reveals Its True Nature just as the repeated and intense pounding separates the grain from the husk.                                         

Thank you so much sir.
Regards,
  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 16, 2011, 08:38:44 AM

[b

Dear Anil,

The undifferentiated consciousness of Pure Being is the Heart or
Hridayam which one is really is. This is like the colorless crystal.
It is also therefore called Suddha Sattva Swarupa [Suddha also means clean or white].  However, the existence of ego in any form, either in Jnani or Ajnani is itself an appearance. Like the red rose kept behind the colourless crystal makes it appear red.

To the Ajnani who is deluded into thinking that the waking state,
and the world are real, the ego also appears to be real.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 16, 2011, 08:55:31 AM
The important works of Sri Adi Shankaracharya, such as Vivekachudamani, Atma Bodha, Drik Drisya Viveka etc.  was translated into Tamil by Sri Bhagwan and  their  English translations  have been included in ‘ The Collected Works of Sri Ramana Maharshi’. While translating the ‘Drik Drisya Viveka  ( Discrimination between subject and object ),  Sri Bhagwan composed an introductory verse and wrote an introduction. The sacred and sublime  introductory verse that Sri Bhagwan composed is as follows :

Oh thou divine Shankara,
Thou art the Subject
That has knowledge
Of subject and object.
As subject and object,
Let the subject in me be destroyed
For thus in my mind arises
The light as the single Siva.
                                          Sri Bhagwan

Drik Drisya Viveka :
All our imaginations, thoughts , perceptions and actions pertain only to the non-Self only. The immutable Seer of all these is indeed the Self. The discrimination between the Self and the non-Self is of paramount importance in any spiritual sadhana. All our scriptures proclaim and enjoin  only this discrimination.

The world and the phenomena which are seen by the physical eye are the drisya (object ). Since this drisya is seen by the physical eye, the eye is the drik (subject).  But this physical eye is perceived by the mind. Therefore, the mind that perceives  the eye is the drik (subject) and the eye is the drisya (object ).But again, the mind with all its thoughts are perceived by the Self. The mind here is drisya (object ) and the witnessing, or the perceiving Self is the subject. As we all are aware, the Self can never be perceived by anything,  and, therefore, it can never be a drisya (object) of  perception.

Sri Bhagwan says that Thou art the SUBJECT that has knowledge of subject and object as subject and object. This knowledge of the subject and the object  as the subject and the object can arise only after this little, false, and insignificant subject in me is destroyed.
Thank you
     Anil       
                         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 16, 2011, 11:10:17 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  There is only one and that is the Self.  All the jivas, the worlds
and even personal gods are imaginations due to maya [Who am I?]

"Seeing the world, the Jnani sees the Self which is the substratum of all that is seen.  The ajnani, whether he sees the world or not, is ignorant of his true Being, the Self. It is quite immaterial to the Jnani or Ajnani if he perceives the world or not.  It is seen by both, but their viewpoints differ."

{Maharshi's Gospel}



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 16, 2011, 03:46:07 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,
Therefore, in Truth, one is the Sudha Sattva Swarupa undifferentiated consciousness of the Pure Being, or the Brahman. ( W.r.t. your posts, re-588 & 589 ) Or, one is really the Self, or the Heart or Hridayam. ‘Sudham’ in Sanskrit means ‘pure’. So, one is Pure Sat Swarupam.

‘ Red  rose kept behind the colourless crystal makes it appear red.’  The crystal itself does not undergo any change, either in colour or in character. Likewise, I-thought with myriad associated thoughts make the Sudha Sattva Swarupa , Eternal, Indivisible Self appear as the ego and the world of phenomena, limited in time and space and  afflicted with disease and death.

However, there is a vital difference. All the similes used to compare the Self, such as the colourless crystal, illumination of the stage etc. are insentient and, therefore, requires an operator. But the Self is consciousness itself and there is no need of an operator. It is the crystal as well as the red rose; it is the stage, actors, audience, screen as well as the light by which all are illumined. The Self is the thoughts, ego, appearance, time, space,  world  of phenomena, and  all else mentioned or unmentioned, known or unknown. There is simply no seer or the thinker apart from the Self. The truth of our existence, the Heart or Hridayam, is the only Reality. All we need to do is to cease imagining this and that and just ‘be’.

A Jnani appears to be active to only onlookers. Sri Bhagwan says that sleep, dream and waking are only modes passing before the Self whether one is aware or not. A Jnani is like the sleeping passenger in the bullock-cart in whom the states of waking, samadhi, deep sleep and dream etc. pass, like the bulls moving, standing, yoked or unyoked, while the passenger is soundly asleep.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil             
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 16, 2011, 04:27:39 PM



Dear Anil.,

Yes.  The seeker first sees the objects.  Then the void [soonyam]
and then the Self.  Only in the last thing, it is not seeing, but Being.

A Jnani always is the Self and the objects around him in the world
and other jivas are also the Self and only Self.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 17, 2011, 08:36:17 AM
When a pot is carried, though the space within the pot,
Is conceived of as carried,
Is it not solely the pot that is carried ?
The Self too, like Space, remains motionless.
                                                             Verse-52,  Atma Sakshatkara

When the pot breaks, the space in the pot
Merges with the great Space.
When the inert body passes away, the Self, seemingly
In the body,
Becomes immediately one with the Supreme Self.
                                                               Verse-53, Atma Sakshatkara

Sri Bhagwan says in Verse-6, Eight Stanzas on Sri Arunachala, “ In Thee there is a mysterious power
 ( Sakti ) which without Thee is nothing “ .
And in introduction to the Drik Drisya Viveka, Sri Bhagwan says that in our Self which is none other than the Brahman, there is a mysterious power  known as avidya (ignorance) which is beginningless and not apart from the Self. So, the mysterious power in the Self ( Sakti) is nothing but the ignorance (avidya) and that is the mind. Its characteristics are veiling the real nature of the Self and projecting the world of diversity.  Sri Bhagwan says in the introduction to the Drik Drisya Viveka that cinema pictures are not visible either in broad sunlight or in pitch darkness but only in a spot of light in the midst of darkness. So, also, the ego and the world are not visible in the ‘Brahma Prakash’, but only the reflected light taking the form of the thought  is visible in the darkness of ignorance. So, we, in the empirical world are aware of only the reflection. Reflection, reflection and reflection only is our lot in this false and spurious existence.  We should never forget this hard truth. Reflection taking the forms of thoughts is the ego, the world and all else. Sri Bhagwan says that the Ego is the primal thought, having the mind with myriad latent tendencies as the medium of perception. The mind after veiling the real nature of the Self projects these latent tendencies as the object of a shadow show in the waking and the dream states which we take to be real. So, first, the veiling power of the mind hides our real nature as the Self and then projects the false empirical world of phenomena as the reality, as the  existence itself.

Thank you,
    Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 17, 2011, 09:19:18 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  The Space is all pervading, inside and outside.  There is nothing other than the Space.  Sri Bhagavan says in Devi Kalottaram, the same idea. [Verses 28 and 29].

Shri Shantananda Puri further comments:

As the Totality is all pervasive and forms one indivisible whole {Akhanda}, it ha no inside or outside.  There is nothing outside it
as it comprises all.  It has no form even though it has taken the form of all beings or creatures.  Unless it reveals itself, nobody can know it. It is unborn as it has always been there without a beginning.  It is the Eternal Consciousness, i.e the Awareness of
Existence, residing in the cavity of the Heart of all.  Nothing can stick to it or attach itself to it.  It has no equals and is second to none.  It has no external manifestations and there is no world in it.  It has no desires.  It cannot be perceived or comprehended by the senses of perception or the mind and cannot be grasped by the senses of action too.

In Verse 3 of Ekatma Panchakam Sri Bhagavan says that it is like the cloth on which a picture is drawn.  People think that the cloth is in the picture.  But really picture is only in the cloth.  Similarly the body is in the Space.  The Space is not in the body.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 17, 2011, 03:09:40 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for a very nice post.
The Devikalottaram is a work of the Agama Sastras. Sri Bhagwan perhaps  wrote its introduction while translating this important work into Tamil. However, I am not certain. Kindly explain the facts.
Who is Sri Shantananda whose verse was cited by you in your post ?
‘Ekatma Panchakam’ is the 'Five verses on the Self' composed by Sri Bhagwan. Am I right , sir ?

Regards,
  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 17, 2011, 03:12:38 PM
I alone am. No one belongs to me; nor do I belong to anyone else. I can see no one who can call me his; neither can I see anyone who is mine. I am all alone.
                                                                                                       Verse-49, Devikalottara

‘I’ is everything and everything is ‘I’. I am all. The king Janaka, after Realization exclaimed, “ My state is now ‘nirvikalp’ ( there is nothing other than me now ) ! ”                   

Does an ornament of gold exist
Apart from the gold ? Can the body exist
Apart from the Self ?
The ignorant one thinks ‘I am the body’;
The enlightened knows  ‘I am the Self’.
                                                                 Verse-5, Five Verses on the Self

Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

So, the space in the pot is always one with the infinite space. So, also, the immutable Self , implied in the term ‘I’ is always one with the Brahman.
But the idea of jiva is also implied in the term ‘I’. However, the jiva is a mere idea. A mere idea obstructs our having identity with the Brahman. If we remove this obstruction, which is of the form of a mere idea of the jiva, by enquiry, one is ever the Self which is the real meaning and significance of the term ‘I’.

One sees a post in the dim light. He is afraid. He mistakes the post to be a ghost. But with courage, he investigates. Enquiry is afoot. On completion of the enquiry, the idea of the ghost is negated. He sees a post in place of the ghost. What happened to the ghost ? The ghost becomes one with the post on negation of the idea of the ghost. On negation of the idea of the jiva, one is ever the Supreme Brahman.

Thank you so much sir.
Regards,
  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 17, 2011, 03:31:33 PM



Dear Anil,

1. For Devi Kalottaram, Sri Bhagavan wrote a small foreword stating that it is an upa-agama.  It is in the form of Siva teaching Devi.  Here in the foreword, Sri Bhagavan says that it is the work that would help the seekers who are suffering in the ocean of samsara, to reach the shore.  It is a rare boat with which the jivas can cross the ocean of samsara.

2. Shantananda Puri was from Himalayas.  Hearing Sri Bhagavan's
glory, he came to Tiruvannamalai, in 1990s and wrote:

a. Sri Ramana Suprabhatam.

b. Commentary on Devi Kalottaram.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 18, 2011, 07:00:53 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan paid attention to only those ancient works which exclusively and pointedly dealt with Brahma-Vidya and which generally helped devotees and seekers on the path of knowledge. He even translated some of them into Tamil.

I think that Sri Shantananda Puri’s  Ramana Suprabhatam is available in the Ashram’s Book-Depot.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 18, 2011, 07:02:56 AM
For knowing  That which Is
There is no other knower.
Hence Being is Awareness
And we are all Awareness.
                                      V-23, Upadesa Saram, from Collected Works

Devotee : is it right that we kill other lives, e. g. mosquitoes, bugs etc. ?
Sri Bhagwan : Everyone is a suicide. The eternal, blissful, and natural state has been smothered by the life of ignorance. In this way the present life is due to the killing of the eternal, pristine Being. Is it not a case of suicide ? So then, everyone is a suicide. Why worry about murders and killings ?
                                                                    Talks, no. 53

In my view, it is very significant that Sri Bhagwan says that the present life is due to the killing of the eternal, pristine Being and that is suicide. Why ? Because ‘I Am’ is the eternal, pristine Being on which has been superimposed this temporal , soiled ego of the form of ‘ I am the body’. Naturally, Sri Bhagwan asks, “ Is it not a case of suicide ? ”

Rise of the false ego-sense and its superimposition on the Self is the root of all problems. Sri Bhagwan says in the free translation of the Vivekcudamani, “ In the field of the Heart the terrible cobra of the ego is coiled round the Bliss of the Self to which it denies access with its threefold hood of the gunas. These three fearful heads of the serpent of ego are to be severed, in accordance with the scriptures, only by great courage with the mighty sword of actual experience of the Self”.

Sri Bhagwan says that he who has destroyed the three-hooded serpent can obtain and enjoy the vast treasure of the Bliss of the Brahman. Ego is only the reflected consciousness of the Self and, therefore, Sri Bhagwan asks us to give up the I-sense in the ego which appears like ‘being’ (existence) and assumes that it is the doer. The one who associates the I-sense with the body  is bound while the one who does not is liberated.

Thank you,
     Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 18, 2011, 09:29:11 AM



Dear Anil,

In this connection, I am posting a story about mosquitoes. Once
a devotee asked Sri Bhagavan:  "Whether it is alright, if I swat
the mosquitoes when they bite me during my meditation?"  Sri
Bhagavan said: "You can do as it suits you.  Just because you do not swat  mosquitoes, you will not get moksha. Or just because, you swat mosquitoes, moksha will not be denied to you [if you otherwise deserve it].  But in true and intense  meditation, you will never feel that mosquitoes are biting you at all!"



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 18, 2011, 01:46:30 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan has said to His devotees to keep away from mosquitoes if their bite causes distraction during meditation. However, in true and intense meditation there is no room for thought, not even the thought of mosquitoe bite. Therefore, till Realization one should not unduly keep on worrying whether one should swat mosquitoes or not. One should do what suits him till Realization. Sri Bhagwan says that after Realization such question will not arise .

Sri Bhagwan says, " When the questioning takes strong hold of you, you cannot think of other thoughts ".

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 18, 2011, 02:25:20 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  Sri Bhagavan once said:  "You are all telling that you are not
able to control or stop the thoughts.  For me, I am telling why no
thought is coming!"  To think, there must be another person or object or creature to think about.  If nothing else is there, at least there must be ego, to say that I shall have to do this today etc.,   For a Self realized Jnani, who is the Self, the one without a second, where is another person, or object or creature or even the ego to think about?



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 19, 2011, 08:44:18 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

So long as one believes in the objective world and objects of the world continue to interest, it is well-nigh impossible to attain quietude of the mind. Srimad Bhagavad Gita says that one should gradually, gradually attain quietude with intellect held steadfast and the mind sunk in the Self, allowing no thought to arise. And also, to whatever side the restless, unsteady mind wanders away, one should check it and bring it back controlled to the Self. ( V-25, & V-26 )

Dear sir, before coming to Sri Bhagwan, whenever  I read the above cited verses from the  Sacred Gita, I felt at a loss, some sort of inadequacy. I didn’t know what to do. But the moment I experienced Sri Bhagwan’s Grace, these and other Verses from the Gita and a few other scriptures became lighted , as I mentioned earlier, and acquired new meaning. This inspired me to say that Sri Bhagwan delivered the liberating Verses of the Gita as Lord Sri Krishna and and taught them to His adoring devotees as Guru Sri Ramana.

Mere  intellectual understanding without sadhana adds up to nothing. Sri Bhagwan, out of great compassion for the mankind, gave twin  infallible and secret weapons ‘Who Am I ?’ and ‘Whence Am I ?’ to cut at the very root of the empirical, conceptual and the objective world and bring back the all-important self-attention to Home i.e. the Self.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil
           
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 19, 2011, 08:48:31 AM
Sri Bhagwan says that one should not expect to get immediate answer to the ‘Who Am I ?’ question. Any answer that the mind suggests will only be a mental answer. It is settled that the mind and the intellect cannot reach the Self from which they rise and which is their Source. The purpose of the intellect is to realize this truth and keep silent allowing attention to refocus on the subjective consciousness.

Vichara to be effective, the first step, in my view, is to accept that ‘ I do not know myself’. Only then ‘Who Am I ? ‘ question  will become an existential question.  When I do not know  myself, there can be no answer to the ‘Who am I ?’ question. Silence then must inevitably follow. Sri Bhagwan says that the real answer would emerge from the depth of one’s being. Sri Bhagwan says  that real Vichara will begin only when one has acquired ability to remain focussed on the Self without thoughts.

Devotee : If I go on rejecting thoughts can I call it Vichara ?
Sri Bhagwan : It may be a stepping stone. But really Vichara begins when you cling to the Self and are already off the mental movement, the thought-waves.
Devotee : Then Vichara is not intellectual ?
Sri Bhagwan : No, it is Anthara Vichara, inner quest.
Devotee : That is dhyana ?
Sri Bhagwan : To stick to a position unassailed by thoughts is abhyasa or sadhana; you are watchful. But the condition grows intenser  and deeper when your effort and all responsibilities are taken away from you; that is Aroodha, Sidhi state.
                                                                                  Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi

Sri Bhagwan says that rejection of thoughts is only a stepping stone. So, the first step is to shift back the attention from the thoughts to the thinker himself. Remaining attentive to one’s Self would effectively curb the mental movement and check the thought-waves. Lack of the mental movement and thought-waves will certainly take Vichara to a sublime plane. Real Vichara has then begun.

Thank you,
   Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 19, 2011, 09:36:35 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes. It is the mind which by its movement causes appearance of the world, jiva and Iswara.  While the old scriptures used the "not this", "not this"  method, Neti Neti, to find out the true nature of I, Sri Bhagavan recommended the question Who am I?  The answers
would keep on coming. But after continuous sadhana, the 'I' will
quell as the true "I-I".  Naan [in Tamizh] will end as Than, [the Self]. It requires effort and perseverance. Otherwise to quell the mind, one can chant mantra like Siva, Siva or Rama, Rama etc.,  The aim in both is to quell the mind.   

The Self is Sat Chit Anandam, the Existence, All-Knowledge and
Bliss.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: snow on February 19, 2011, 02:03:31 PM
Quote
Devotee : If I go on rejecting thoughts can I call it Vichara ?
Sri Bhagwan : It may be a stepping stone. But really Vichara begins when you cling to the Self and are already off the mental movement, the thought-waves.
Devotee : Then Vichara is not intellectual ?
Sri Bhagwan : No, it is Anthara Vichara, inner quest.
Devotee : That is dhyana ?
Sri Bhagwan : To stick to a position unassailed by thoughts is abhyasa or sadhana; you are watchful. But the condition grows intenser  and deeper when your effort and all responsibilities are taken away from you; that is Aroodha, Sidhi state.
Could someone translate these terms please?
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 19, 2011, 03:11:57 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

‘I’ in the sentence, “ I am Anil” is a reflection of the Supreme Reality. There are as many ‘I’s as there are instruments (inner organs)  to reflect the Reality i.e. the Self. This ‘I’ is the fragmented abhasa of the One Unbroken Supreme Reality “I-I”. This ‘I’ appears and disappears where as “I-I” is ever present whether the fragmented and reflected ‘I’ is appearing or disappearing, whether aware or unaware.

By tracing the reflected sun in the bucket, one can locate and find out the real sun in the sky. The sun is ever present in the sky whether there is a reflection in the bucket or not. So also, the Eternal “i-I” is ever present  whether ego  ‘I’ appears or disappears.

Therefore, with effort and perseverance, Naan is certain to end up as Than.

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan has said that all Paths differ only in the beginning. They all converge in the end.

You have mentioned in your last post that ‘I’ will quell as “I-I”. May I ask why did you use the word ‘quell’ in the sentence ?

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil   
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 19, 2011, 03:15:05 PM


Dear snow,

Arudha or Siddhi [not to be confused with supernatural powers]
means Attainment.  This is the stable, firm and effortless abidance in the Self in which the mind which has become one with the Self does not subsequently emerge again at any time.  That is, just as everyone usually and naturally has the idea, 'I am not a goat nor a cow, nor any other animal but a man', when he thinks of his body,
so also when he has the idea, "I am not the principles, [tattvas
like five elements etc.,] beginning with the body and ending with sound [Nada - where a Jnani or a Yogi listens to some strange sounds], but the Self which is existence, consciousness and bliss, the innate self consciousness, [Atma Prajna], he is said to have attained firm knowledge or Attainment.



Arunachala Siva.      
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 19, 2011, 03:17:33 PM


Dear Anil,

Quelling means subsiding - the mind subsides as the Self.  Naan,
the little 'I' becomes Thaan 'I-I'.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 19, 2011, 03:37:28 PM
Dear Sri snow,

'Aroodha' and 'Sidhi' state has been explained nicely By Sri Subramanian. R

Vichara here means the quest, the enquiry. Therefore, the Self-enquiry as taught by Bhagwan Sri Ramana was termed by Him as the 'Atma-Vichara.

'Anthra' means inner. Therefore, 'Anthra Vichara' mentioned in the quoted paragraph means 'Inner Quest' as opposed to searching outside of oneself. Meditation is 'Dhyana'. "Sadhana', or 'Abhyasa' means practice or efforts put in to realize the Self.

Thank you so much for your response.

Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 19, 2011, 04:30:36 PM



Dear Anil, snow,

The word Arudha is used by Sri Bhagavan in His Upadesa Manjari
a prose work, which is compiled by Natanananda on the basis of
his conversations with Sri Bhagavan.  This work which is in Collected
Works of Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, deals with various stages of practices.

Another prose work Vichara Sanghraham is the compilation of conversations Gambhiram Sesha Iyer had with Sri Bhagavan.  This
work apart from self inquiry, also deals with eight-limbed Yoga Marga, Ashtanga Yogam.



Arunachala Siva.
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 20, 2011, 08:00:56 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Brahman is the only Reality and the Supreme  Self of all the  manifest  as well as the unmanifest. In Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi  authored by Sri K, it has been nicely explained that there are three distinct sense in which ‘I’ is used.
Paramartha:- The Supreme sense of ‘I’ is the Supreme Self, Unmanifest and infinite. So the ‘Param Arth’ , or the Supreme Meaning of the ‘I’ is the Purusha.
Lakshyartha:- Lakshyartha means the implied meaning. The Supreme Self Itself is the inner Self and support of all individual manifestations. Therefore, He is the real significance and the implied meaning of the ‘I’ in the individuals.
Vachyartha:-The immediate and apparent sense of ‘I’ is the ego.  Even the sense of the individual ‘I’, or the ego ‘I’ is a derivation from and the reflection of the Inner Self by whose covert support it poses as the individual self on the surface. This apparent self is formed temporarily for the purposes of individuation.

Thus, there are threefold sense in which ‘I’ should be understood.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 20, 2011, 09:01:39 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  However, Sri Bhagavan rhat the true nature of all the three
is only, the Self.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 20, 2011, 10:01:32 AM
Man owes his movement to another power, whereas he thinks that he does everything himself-just like a lame man bluffing that, were he helped to stand up, he would fight and chase away the enemy. Action is impelled by desire; desire arises only after the rise of the ego; and this ego owes its origin to a Higher Power on which its existence depends. It cannot remain apart. Why then prattle, “ I do, I act, or I function ? ”
                                                       Talks, no. 210

Do we know that how many and what thoughts are going to overwhelm me today ? Even what thought is coming the next moment ? Have we any control over the thoughts ? Answer to all the above questions is ‘No’. Then Sri Bhagwan asks, “ Why prattle, I do, I act, I function ? “ Is it not akin to a cinema character asking the audience whether he can enact a scene of his choice ? This prattle will cease only when we look within seek for the prattler.

Thank you,
    Anil
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 20, 2011, 10:04:12 AM
The Vichara ‘to know the Self’ is different in method from the meditation “Shivoham” or “Soham”, ‘Lord Shiva I am” or He I am.” I rather lay stress upon  Self-knowledge, for, you are  first concerned with yourself before you proceed to know the world and its Lord. The ‘Soham” meditation or ‘I am Brahman’ meditation is more or less a mental thought. But the quest for the Self I speak of is a direct method, indeed superior  to the other meditation; for, the moment you get into a movement of quest for the Self  and go deeper and deeper, the real Self is waiting there to take you in and then whatever is done is done  by something else and you have no hand in it. In this process, all doubts and discussions are automatically given up, just as one who sleeps forgets, for the time being, all his care.   

Devotee : What certainty is there  that something else waits there to welcome me ?

Sri Bhagwan: When one is a sufficiently developed soul (pakvi) he becomes naturally convinced.
                                                                               P-7&8, Sat-Darshana Vashya and Talks with Maharshi

Therefore, Vichara as taught by Sri Bhagwan is a radically different technique from other meditation, such as “He I am” or “ Shivoham” etc.  Such meditation is a mental thought. And, in my view, herein lies the greatest importance of the Gracious Teaching of the Master. “ I rather lay stress upon Self-knowledge, for, you are first concerned with yourself before you proceed to know the world and its Lord .”  Gracious Lord Sri Arunahala chooses to adopt a Human Garb within time and space  and teaches not to pay attention to thoughts and objects but instead on the thinker himself. Attention is effectively back on the Source from where  I got deflected at a tangent and started saying ‘I am a jiva.’ Self-attention is key to Self-awareness. So at long last, after millions of years in the oblivion away from the Blissful Supreme Abode, a great Guru comes and not only reminds us of our Home, turns our attention to It, but also charts out a Royal Highway to It.

All we have to do is to go sufficiently deeper and deeper. We have to put in efforts up to a certain stage only. Sri Bhagwan says that the real Self is waiting there to take us in. You do not have to do anything. After this stage whatever is to be done is done by the Higher Power. All are His cares from here onwards. If we do sadhana of the ‘Atma-Vichara’ as taught by Sri Bhagwan, all doubts and discussions come to end of their own accord. Besides, Sri Bhagwan says that whatever the previous development, Vichara quickens the development.

Thank you
     Anil         
                                                 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 20, 2011, 04:12:31 PM




Dear Anil.

Muruganar says this in two verses of Guru Vachaka Kovai:

710:  Deep rooted diseases will not be even slightly eliminated
by repeating the name of medicine, but only by consuming it.
Likewise, the fetter off samsara will not be sundered solely by
doing japa of maha-vakyas such as Sivoham that expound thje ultimate union.

712:  When the reality that is known as the Heart, gradually emerges from the Heart and expands as consciousness, it takes many thousands  names.  On investigation, the foremost of these
will be found to be 'I'.



Arunachala Siva.

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 21, 2011, 07:47:48 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

It was divinely planned. It was divinely ordained. Coming of Sri Muruganar and Sri Ganapati Muni with Sri Bhagwan.  They were the great poets of Sri Bhagwan’s Royal Spiritual Court. They, ever immersed in deep devotion to the Guru, versified Sri Bhagwan’s Sublime Teaching in extraordinarily beautiful poetry  accurately . They are some of the greatest devotional poetry ever written. I  sometimes  also deeply feel, like so many other devotees, how  I can ever recompense the debt due to them.

The nature of my realization was such that the ‘I’ that asserts its own reality was revealed as false and disappeared, but not the ‘I’ that is the unique, pure non-dual Self that exists permeating all things equally.
                                                    V-86, Sri Guru Ramana Prasadam


How sublimely Sri Muruganar has expressed the ‘nature of his Realization’ ! ‘I’ that falsely asserts its own reality, but in truth being a mere abhasa ( reflection), takes to flight, but, nevertheless,  ‘I’, the Self, exist ever permeating all things equally. Such is the nature of my Realization.

The grace of the Lord will open the eyes of those who love him, and before the thought of him can ever arise in the heart, will speak to them inwardly saying, ‘ Behold it is I !’
Lending sharpness to my sight and directing my gaze to his holy feet it kept me close by his side, the grace of my Lord.
                                                       V- 976, Sri Guru Ramana Prasadam


Ji. Yes. To one who loves Him, His Eye says, ‘Behold it is I !’ if he gazes without and of course  to such a one who loves Him, He will speak to him saying, ‘Behold it is I !’ from within.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil                               

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 21, 2011, 08:39:50 AM
The aham vritti is different from Aham Sphurti. The former is the activity of the ego, and is bound to lose itself and make way for the latter, which is an eternal expression of the Self. In Vedantic parlance this Aham Sphurti is called Vritti Jnana. Realization or Jnana is always a vritti. There is a distinction between Vritti Jnana or Realization  and Swarupa the Real. Swarupa is Jnana itself, it is Consciousness.

Swarupa is Sat-Chit which is omnipresent. It is always there Self-attained. When you realize it, the realization is called Vritti Jnana. It is only with reference with your existence, that you talk of realization or Jnana. Therefore, when we talk of Jnana, we always mean Vritti Jnana and not Swarupa Jnana; for Swarupa itself is Jnana ( Consciousness ) always.
                                                  Sri Bhagwan, P-20&21, Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi 

The word ‘Realization’ is a vritti and , therefore, cannot be Swarupa Itself. Swarupa is ‘Pure Knowledge’, or ‘Pure Awareness’ and is present in each and every experience. It is ‘Whole’. Even to say ‘it is Whole’ violates Its Wholeness. I am Swarupa, or Jnana Itself. When I am Jnana Itself, where is the question of Its Realization and non-Realization. Sri Bhagwan’s Statement that  ’one is ever realized’ should, in my view, be understood  in this light. This is why Sri Bhagwan says that when we talk of Realization, or Jnana, we always mean Vritti Jnana and not Swarupa Jnana. I am a man is a fact. Do I need to assert this fact ? When I say I am not a man, will it make any difference to me being a man ? So, this is the true  meaning and implication of the ‘Summa Iru’, or ’Be Still’. I AM THAT I AM. That is all. How ? “ Be still and know that I am God”. So long as we are discussing things, It is Vritti Jnana.

Thank you,
    Anil                                       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 21, 2011, 09:00:09 AM



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan mentions about three aspects.

Aham Vritti - The I thought and many many subsequent thoughts.

Aham Sphurti - The quelling of the mind, and attaining Swarupa
Jnana.

Aham Sphurna  - Permanent abidance in Swarupam.  In Sahaja
Stithi, the Brahma Jnani is ever in permanent abidance of Swarupam
and all his daily activities are done by Swarupam.



Arunachala Siva.
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 21, 2011, 03:06:02 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Vritti is a mode of the mind. With vritti one sees or experiences  knowledge. Sri Bhagwan says that one should not confound and mistake vritti with Knowledge, Jnana Itself.  Vritti  is only a phenomena  and operates in the realm of abhasa ( reflected consciousness ). Knowledge is beyond vritti in which there is no subject and no object. Vritti belongs to rajasic mind (active mind). Satvic mind is free from the vrittis.

Aham Vritti :-Sri Bhagwan says in Talk-307 that the Self , or ‘I’ is perceived associated with the body on waking. Such associated ‘I’ is Aham vritti.

Aham Sphurana :-When Aham represents the Self only it is Aham Sphurana. It is our True Nature underlying the three states of waking, sleep, and dream.

Akhanakara vritti, or  ( Unbroken Experience ):-Self uninterrupted by waking, sleep, and dream is the Akhadakara vritti, or the Unbroken Experience. Sri Bhagwan says that this should not be understood to be literally a vritti. Vritti is a function of the mind. The Unbroken, Continuous Consciousness transcends the mind. This natural and primal state of the Jnani is the Akhandakara vritti or the Unbroken Experience.

Sri Bhagwan says that Aham vritti is the broken ‘I-thought’. Aham Spurana  ( the light of  ‘I-I’ )is unbroken, continuous.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 21, 2011, 04:28:18 PM


Dear Anil,

Yes.  Nochur Venkataraman says that Sri Bhagavan has also mentioned about Aham Sphurti, which is in between Aham Vritti
and Aham Sphurana.  I am not able to readily find out the source of
this conversation.  Aham Sphurti is experienced when the I thoughts are totally quiescent, for a small period of time, where there is foretaste of the Self.  If abidance in Aham Sphurti is firmly established, then it becomes Aham Sphurana.




Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 22, 2011, 07:45:13 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan says that in Vedantic  parlance Aham Sphurti is called Vritti Jnana. However , He says that there is a distinction between Vritti Jnana or Realization and Jnana,  Swarupa the Real. Sri Bhagwan says that when we talk of realization or Jnana, we always mean Vritti Jnana and not Swarupa Jnana; for Swarupa itself is Jnana ( Consciousness ) always. The meaning and implication becomes obvious when Sri Bhagwan Sayss that it is only with reference to your existence that you talk of realization or Jnana.

From the above, therefore, there is no doubt that Aham Sphurti is in between Aham Vritti and Aham Sphurana and is experienced as a foretaste of the Self, as you so significantly said. Firm abidance in Aham Sphurti  is Aham Sphurana,  Swarupa the Real.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil 


Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 22, 2011, 07:49:32 AM
Devotee:  Enquiry into the Self seems to take one into the  subtle body (puriashtaka, ativahika, or jivatma). Am I right ?

Sri Bhagwan : After some time the subtle body or the jivatma will disappear and there will be the ‘Eka’ (One) only. 
                                                               Talk-629

Sri Bhagwan says that there are two kinds of vrittis. Vishaya vritti (objective) and Atma vritti (subjective). The first must go away and give place to the second. The practice of Atma-Vichara takes one first to puriashtaka, or the jivatma ( subtle body)  and then to the One Self.
Sri Bhagwan says that Atma vritti or the subjective vritti is the same as jnanam.
Sri Bhagwan says in Talk-624 that the common man is aware of himself only when modifications arise in the intellect; these modifications are transient; they arise and set. The subject (knower) is only a mode of mind. Though the mode (vritti) passes, the reality behind does not cease. The background of the mode is the ‘I’ in which the mind modes arise and sink.

Sri Bhagwan says that “ to be in one’s natural state on the subsidence of thoughts is bliss; if that bliss be transient –arising and setting –then it is only the sheath of bliss, not the pure Self. So, what is needed here is to fix the attention on the pure ‘I’ after the subsidence of all thoughts and not to lose hold of it. SRI BHAGWAN SAYS (TALK-624) THAT “ THIS HAS TO BE DESCRIBED AS AN EXTREMELY SUBTLE THOUGHT; ELSE IT CANNOT BE SPOKEN OF AT ALL, SINCE IT IS NO OTHER THAN THE REAL Self. WHO IS TO SPEAK OF IT, TO WHOM AND HOW ?”

Thank you,
    Anil
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 22, 2011, 07:54:55 AM
Devotee : So far I understand . But what about the body ? How could I feel this Vritti Jnana in the body ?

Sri Bhagwan : You can feel yourself one with the One that exists. The whole body becomes a mere power, a force-current. Your life becomes a needle drawn to a huge mass of magnet and as you go deeper and deeper , you become a mere centre and then not even that, for you become a mere Consciousness; there are no thoughts and  cares any longer-they were shattered at the threshold –it is an inundation. You, a mere straw, are swallowed alive, but it is very delightful, for you become the very thing that swallows you. This is the union of jiva with Brahman, the loss of ego in the real Self, the destruction of falsehood, the attainment of Truth.
                                                                P-21, Sat-Darshana Vashya and Talks with Maharshi   

Thank You,
     Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 22, 2011, 10:53:54 AM



Dear Anil,

This is the question that many people ask.  A Brahma Jnani is
Sahaja Stithi, where there are no thoughts, not even the I-thought,
the prime vritti, can eat, sleep, attend to nature calls, attend to various activities like cooking, talking etc.?

Muruganar answers this point in two ways.

1.  The Self which is within, will do all these work, since there
is not kartrutvam.

2. Saiva Siddhantis, however have got a slightly different view.
They say [and Muruganar also says] that a Brahma Jnani's mind
becomes Suddha Manas or Pure Mind or Sattvic Mind.  This Sattvic
Mind which is nothing but pure manifestation of the Self,   
would do all these work.

See Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verses 1139, 1140 and 1149.
See also Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 924.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 22, 2011, 12:24:13 PM
Dear Subramanian Sir,

I never wished to know how does a Brahma Jnani eats, acts etc. To such a question, Sri Bhagwan always advised the questioner to realize first. His Statement that such question would not arise after Realization is adequate for me.

Action is insentient ( V-1, Upadesa Saram ). Self is Pure Knowlddge, or Pure Intelligence, or Pure Awareness. Therefore, the Self must be present in every action, every experience as the Intelligent Principle.

But, nevertheless, question remains as to how works are performed, and who and why performs them?

Dear sir, these questions do not bother me. Why? Because I believe, " All is your jugglery, Oh Lord ! "

However, I wish to say a few words regarding 'three gunas' (nature), which are responsible for works, in my next post.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 22, 2011, 01:35:32 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

A Brahma Jnani is ever rooted in the Self.

" Just as the moon seems to move when the clouds around her move, so also the Self seems to the undiscriminating to be active, when actually, the senses are active. "
        V-19, Atmabodha

" Just as men do their duties in the light of the Sun ( but the Sun does not participate in them ), so also the body, the senses etc. function in the light of the Self without its participating in them."
          V-20, Atmabodha

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
    Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 22, 2011, 04:22:55 PM



Dear Anil,

When Sri Bhagavan was asked in the Commission of Inquiry [related to Perumal Swami's case]:  "Do you follow Sri Sankara's philosophy?" Sri Bhagavan answered:  "I am following my experience.  Later, I found that it tallies with Sri Sankara's."

If you study Atma Bodham of Sri Sankara [Sri Bhagavan has done it
verse by verse in verse], you will be surprised that it is all Bhagavan's life and teachings. But Sri Bhagavan never read anything on Sri Sankara, before His self realization!



Arunachala Siva. 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 23, 2011, 07:22:08 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

“ Can Sankara, the enlightener of the Self, be different from one’s own Self ? Who but he, does this day, abiding as the inmost Self in me, speak this in Tamil language ?”
                                                                                                                     Sri Bhagwan

Ji. Yes. Philosophical aspect of Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching tallies with Sri Adi Sankara’s. Enlightener of the Self cannot be different from the Self. Adi Guru Sri Dakshinamoorti, Sri Adi Sankara and Sri Bhagwan are One, the Self. To think of Them other than the Self is gross ignorance, living in the darkness.

However, dear sir, I wish to say that Sri Bhagwan was Lord Sri Arunachala manifested. His True and most potent Teaching is through Silence. Therefore, He is better identified with Sri Dakshinamoorti.

“ They who know the ‘I’ as body, breath, senses, intellect, or the void, are deluded like children, and the blind and the stupid and talk much. To him who destroys the great delusion produced by ignorance; to him who removes the obstacles to knowledge, the Guru Dakshinamoorti, may this obeisance be !”     
                                                V-6, Sri Dakshinamoorti Stotram

Sri Bhagwan has removed the obstacles to Knowledge through His potent Silence as well as the Sacred and Revealed Words like Sri Dakshinamoorti. Sri Dakshinamoorti and Sri Bhagwan, the Self, the Father, have a south-facing form.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 23, 2011, 08:33:05 AM



Dear Anil.

Yes.  In the Invocatory Verse, which was specially done by
Sri Bhagavan, He says that Sri Sankara,  and Himself, are
only the Self.

'Can Sankara, the enlightener of the Self, be different from one's
own Self?'.  Who but he, does this day, abiding as the inmost Self in
me, speak this in the Tamizh language?'

Sri Bhagavan had done it at the request of one Moslem devotee.
The Tamizh verses were then rendered in English prose by
Arthur Osborne.   



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 23, 2011, 08:46:41 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

I wish to cite four Verses from the Srimad Bhagvad Gita which teach that there are no doer, or agents to work other than the three gunas of the Prakriti.

“ nanyam gunebhyah kartaram
yadadrastanupasyati
gunebhyas ca param vetti
madbhavam sodhigacchati ”
When the seer perceives no agent (doer) other than the modes,and knows also that which is beyond the modes, he attains to My being.
                                                              V. 14-19, Srimad Bhagvad Gita
“Nan’yam gunebhyah kartaram- yada drasta’nupasyati”
‘When the seer perceives no doer, or agents other than the three modes of Prakriti’, only then the identity of the seer with the Brahman becomes manifest.

“ When the embodied soul rises above these three modes that spring from the body, it is freed from birth, old age and pain and attains life eternal.”
                                                                    V. 14-20, Srimad Bhagavad Gita.
In the above Verse, the term ‘ dehasamudbhavan’ has been used by the Lord meaning  “three modes that spring from the body’ clearly implying that the three modes are caused by the body and also are the seed out of which the body is evolved. Sri S. Radhakrishanan, in his commentary on the above Verse says that even sattvika goodness is imperfect since this goodness has for its condition the struggle with its opposite. The moment the struggle ceases and the goodness becomes absolute, it ceases to be goodness and goes beyond all ethical compulsion. By developing the nature of sattva, we rise beyond it and obtain transcendent wisdom.

“ He who sees that all actions are done only by nature (prakriti) and likewise that the self is not the doer, he verily sees.”
                                                                         V. 13-29, Srimad Bhagavad Gita.
So, it follows that the one who sees a Jnani active verily does not see.

He who thus knows soul (purusa) and nature (prakriti) together with the modes, though he acts in every way, he is not born again.
                                                                   V. 13-23, Srimad Bhagavad Gita

The one who knows tattva of both Purusa and Prakriti is not born again. This means that he does not see the Self as the doer and know that the Prakriti with its modes is alone the doer.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil

         
                                                                                 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 23, 2011, 01:02:14 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  Some of these ideas have also been expressed by Sri
Bhagavan in ULLadu Narpadu.  He calls it as Muppazh or Pazh.
i.e. Three Voids. What are these voids?

- seer, seen,  and the sight.

- waking, dream and deep sleep.

- I, You and He [or She]

All these are mere appearances.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 23, 2011, 03:40:40 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Body, mind and temporal life belong to nature. Nature, internal as well as external, is not free. It is bound by ‘Law’. I feel that this is what is implied when Sri Bhagwan says ‘For so the Lord ordains it’ in V-1, Upadesa Saram.

Action yields fruit,
For so the Lord ordains it.
 How can action be the Lord ?
It is insentient.
                            V-1, Upadesa Saram
Action being itself insentient, fruits of the action are according to the ‘Law’ ordained by the Lord.

“ If we are the doers of deeds, we should reap the fruits they yield. But when we question, ‘Who am I, the doer of this deed ?’ and realize the Self, the sense of agency is lost and the three karmas slip away. Eternal is this liberation.”
                                                      V-38, Ulladu Narpadu
Sri Bhagwan says that the sense of agency is lost, when we realize the Self. The spurious ego attributes to itself the agency for action whereas the ‘Law of Nature’ is in operation. Since Nature is subject to Law, the ego, acting under the compulsion of the Nature only, cannot be free. Sri Bhagwan says that with Realization of the Self, the ego disappears and  along with the ego disappear  all sense of agency.

While all kinds of work are done by the mode of nature, he, whose soul is bewildered by the self-sense, (ahamkaravimudhatma), ego , thinks “ I am the doer.”
                                                                                                                      V. 3-27, Srimad Bhagavad Gita
Ahamkara-vimudh –atma  thinks  “I am the doer” forgetting the determinism of the Nature.

But he who knows the true character of the two ditinctions ( of the soul )from the modes of nature and their works, O Mighty-armed ( Arjuna ), understanding that it is the modes which are acting on the modes, does not get attached.
                                                                                                                       V. 3-28, Srimad Bhagvad Gita
Thank you so much sir.
Regards,
  Anil       

 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 24, 2011, 08:04:45 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Three Voids are mere appearances (w.r.t. your post, re-632). The Trinity (Trputi) of knower, known and knowledge is a mere appearance on the substratum of the Self, All-powerful Existence.

Power implies movement. Sri Bhagwan says in Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi that ‘Though Ishwara moves by His Power (Shakti), which is movement, He transcends the movement. He is achala, atita’.
There is One All-powerful Existence, One Truth. We are prone to losing sight of this cardinal truth on account of the diversity that keep presenting in the empirical world forgetting the unity behind. Sri Bhagwan says that the Power (Shakti) is not different from the Powerful (Shakta). If we look at the movement alone, we call it Shakti, Power. Sri Bhagwan says that if we settle ourselves ‘in the support of the movement’, we call it Asraya, Achala. Former is the activity of the latter. I f the movement due to the Shakti, Power is activity, vyapara, the latter is the VASTU, the SUBSTANCE which is the Ashray, the support of the Movement, the power, the Shakti. So, It  is Vastu and Shakti, or Substance and Force. Can they remain independent of each other ? Sri Bhagwan says that they are inseparable, and are indeed two aspects of the same Reality. But here, in my view, the most important thing to remember is that the Reality, the Real Substance cannot be known without the Movement of the Power, without the Shakti vyapara. I quote below V. !2-20, Ramana Gita, which has also been quoted in the Sat-Darshana Vahya and Talks with Maharshi as following :

“Only without the Shakti vyapara or the movement of the power, the Real substance is not apprehended. ( Bina shaktim narashreshtha swarupaam na pratiyate). V. 12-20, Ramana Gita

The Mother, Shakti is coeval with the Eternal Father Ishwara. Sri Bhagwan says that SHE has no independent existence apart from HIM. It is the eternal activity (vyapara) of Ishwara, creating myriads of worlds.

What happens to the Shakti, the Power when all the worlds are dissolved in time and there is no creative movement ? Sri Bhagwan says that Shakti does not perish and still persists in activity through lying latent. Following lines from Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi are quoted as follows :

“Every moment there is creation, every moment destruction. There is no absolute creation, no absolute destruction. Both are movement, and that is eternal.
   But this whole movement, the creation, called a play of Shakti is a formulation of the Lord ( Ishwara kalpana). If this Kalpana is transcended, what remains is SWARUPA.”

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil
                                                     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 24, 2011, 09:26:18 AM



Dear Anil,

There are two or three verses in ULLadu Narpadu, which describe the
various types of Void.

Verse 12:  True Knowledge is being devoid of knowledge as well
as the ignorance of objects.  Knowledge of objects is not true knowledge.  Since the Self shines self-luminous, with nothing
else for It to know, with nothing else to know It, the Self is Knowledge.  It is not void.

Verse 14:  'You' and 'He' -- these appear only when 'I' does.  But
when the nature of the 'I' is sought and the ego is destroyed, 'You'
and 'He' are at an end.  What shines then as the One alone is the
true Self.

Verse 15:  Past and Future are dependent on the present.  The
past was present in its time and the future will be present too.
Ever-present is the present. To seek to know the future and the
past, without knowing the truth of time NOW, is to try to count
without the number 'One'.

Verse 19:  The debate, 'Does free will prevail or fate?' is only
for those who do not know the root of both.  Those who have
known the Self, the common source of free-will and fate, have
passed beyond them both and will not return to them.     




Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 24, 2011, 10:15:20 AM
Sri Bhagwan says that Shakti,0r Power is coeval with the eternal Iswara. It has no existence apart from Him.Shakti is the eternal activity (Vyapara). But the play of Shakti is a formulation of the Lord. Sri Bhagwan has termed this formulation as Kalpana ( Imagination). If this Kalpana is transcended One is only Swarupa.

“ Just as the Sun causes all worldly movements, so do I-the ever present , conscious Self- cause the mind to be active and the senses to function. Again, just as ether is all-pervading yet devoid of any specific qualities, so am I free from all qualities.”
                                                                                        V-3, Hastamalaka Stotra

All-pervading  ‘I’ is just as all-pervading ether. However, one should remember that ether is insentient but All-pervading ‘I’ is Pure Knowledge, or Pure Intelligence.

“I am the Conscious Self, ever present and associated with everything in the same manner as heat is always associated with fire. I am that eternal, undifferentiated, unshaken consciousness, on account of which the insentient mind and senses function, each in its own manner.”
                                                                                               V-4, Hastamalaka Stotra

The insentient mind and the senses function in the presence of ‘I’, the Pure Intelligence, each in its own manner, according to their prakriti and bound by the ‘Law’, Law of Karma (Action).

Thank you,
    Anil

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 24, 2011, 01:47:35 PM



Dear Anil,

The mind with the Self behind it, sees the world.  When the mind
after sadhana and attention towards the Self., sees the Self.  But
in between for some period, the mind sees the Void.  This is what
Buddhists called as Soonya.  Buddha is said to have stopped with
this Soonya, Void.  But Vivekachoodamani says that if sadhaka proceeds further asking 'Who is seeing this soonya?' then the Self
reveals itself and the mind / Self sees only the Self.  All worlds,
Iswara, the personal god and the Jivas the individual self are all
then seen as the Self.



Arunachala Siva.   
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 24, 2011, 04:00:58 PM
Dear  Sri Subrammanian Sir,

Thank you so much for explaining in proper persepective the void that a seeker encounters at a certain stage during their sadhana. Mind used seeing the external world since millions of years is bewildered when its attention is unwaveringly and steadfastly drawn towards the Self,and, as a result does not see the world of phenomena, so far accustomed to seeing only that. Non-seeing of the external world appears as a void. Sri Bhagwan and also Vivekchoodamani says that on seeing such void, the seeker should not mistake it for the Real, but, instead, should ask, "Who sees this void ?" Someone must be present even there to say that one sees the void. Thus, the mind is finally merged into the Self and the Self is revealed.

Regards,
  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 25, 2011, 06:43:28 AM
Sri Bhagwan says that  Realization is neither a state of sunya ( blankness) nor of ignorance. It is the Swarupa ( Real Self ) in which the object to be witnessed and the witness finally merge together and Absolute Consciousness alone reins supreme.

In Talk no. 220, a very beautiful stanza from the Tiruvachakam  was quoted by Sri Bhagwan in which mind is addressed  as follows :

“ O humming bee (namely, mind) ! Why do you take the pains of collecting tiny specks of honey from innumerable flowers ? There is one from whom you can have the whole storehouse of honey by simply thinking or seeing or speaking of Him. Get within and hum to Him (hinkara).”

All the joys and pleasures that one can conceive of in the world of the empirical usage is only a soiled reflection of the Supreme Bliss. Only if the mind can go within and hum to Him !

Thank you,
     Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 25, 2011, 06:48:19 AM
Contrary to truth, the objects perceived by the senses are termed as the direct or the immediate perception. Sri Bhagwan asks ,” can anything be as direct as the Self ?-always experienced without the aid of the senses ?” Knowledge gained by sense-perception cannot be direct or the immediate knowledge. Such knowledge, obviously, at best, is indirect. Sri Bhagwan says that only our own awareness is the direct knowledge , as is the common experience of one and all.No aids are needed to know our own Self. Nor do we require senses to be ‘aware’.

Truth is innocently so simple. But the mind is addicted to intricacies. It first creates complex problems and then relishes with glee solving them.

Sri Bhagwan says that unbroken ‘I-I’ is the ocean infinite, the ego, ‘I’- thought, remains only a bubble on it and is called jiva, i.e. individual soul.The bubble too is not different from the ocean. It is also water. When it bursts, it mixes in the ocean. But when it is bubble , it is still a part of the ocean.

“ Ignorant of this simple truth, innumerable methods under different denominations, such as yoga, bhakti, karma…… each again with many modifications, are being taught with great skill and in intricate detail only to entice the seekers and confuse their minds. So also are the religions and sects and dogmas. What are they all for ? Only for knowing the Self. They are aids and practices required for knowing the Self.”
                                                      Talks, no. 92
The great Poet Sri Milton sang that mind is its own palace. In itself,  it creates hell out of heaven and heaven out of hell. ( cited from memory )

Thank you ,
   Anil         
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 25, 2011, 06:59:39 AM
Are we discussing this much without Grace of the Guru ? It is impossible. Sri Bhagwan says, " Grace is the beginning, middle and end. Grace is the Self ". Grace is the primaryy cause. Everything else is of secondary importance. Its importance can be understood by the number of times Sri Bhagwan has mentioned 'Grace' in the Akshar Mana Malai.

Therefore, Grace is all. Isn't it ?

Thank you,
    Anil

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 25, 2011, 09:22:29 AM



Dear Anil,

Sri Lakshamana Sarma mentions about the grace of God or Guru,
in his Sri  Ramana Paravidyopanishad.

Devotion is taught as being of two kinds, according to the degree
of ripeness of the devotees.  In the beginning, it is devotion like
that of the baby monkey, and afterwards devotion is that of the kitten.

After practicing devotion like that of the baby monkey through a great many lives, in the end, when his egoism greatly reduced, he
practices devotion like the kitten.

The devotion that is like the kitten is the same as taking refuge at the feet of God and self-surrender to him.  This devotion, becoming further purified by the refinement of the mind, becomes equal to right awareness in the course of time.

The path beyond effort, which is surrender, comes to one only through God's or Guru's grace.  That is why this way is extolled
as "the faultless way of the kitten."

A kitten makes no effort to hold onto its mother.  When the mother wants to move, it picks up the kitten and takes it with her.  Baby monkeys, on the other hand, need to make an effort to cling to the chests of their mothers, when their mothers move around.  These two mothering techniques are widely used analogies in Hindu texts that discuss the necessity or otherwise of spiritual effort.  [David
Godman].



Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 26, 2011, 07:26:38 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Devotion like the baby monkey and the kitten monkey are very apt analogies to understand the necessity or otherwise of the spiritual effort. I had not been aware of this analogy before you discussed it in one of your previous posts. After you pointed out about it, I keenly watched the behaviour of both the baby as well as the kitten monkey and learnt the meaning and implication of partial and complete surrender.  Thank you so much sir. I cannot express my gratitude in words.

Dear sir, you have mentioned in your post that ‘path beyond surrender comes to one through God’s or Guru’s Grace’. I wish to say that even effort to realize the Self is not possible without God’s or Guru’s Grace.

Sri Bhagwan :  Grace is within you. If it is external it is useless. Grace is the Self. You are never out of its operation. Grace is always there.
Grace is the Self. I have already said, ” If you remember Bhagwan, you  are prompted to do so by the Self.” Is not Grace already there ? Is there a moment when Grace is not operating in you ? Your remembrance is the forerunner of Grace. That is the  response, that is the stimulus, that is the Self and that is Grace.
                                                                                   Talks, no. 251

Sri Bhagwan says that Grace is both beginning and end. Introversion is due to Grace. Perseverance is Grace and, of course, Realization is Grace. And elsewhere Sri Bhagwan says that if one has entirely surrendered there is no part left to ask for Grace. He is swallowed alive by Grace.

Sri Bhagwan says that there never can be moment when the Self is not realized. Grace is the Self. So, it follows that there never can be a moment when Grace is not realized. Grace is within. All our efforts, put in knowingly or unknowingly, in this birth or in  previous  births, purification and perseverance, all are prompted by Grace only. This is why  Grace is said to be the primary, most efficient and divine cause.

Regards,
  Anil 

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 26, 2011, 08:34:56 AM
It is impossible to see the Divine Dance of Self Knowledge (the Sphurana,” I-I”) in the Heart, until the dance of the rebellious mind is destroyed by the Divine Power of the Sword of Mei-Jnana ( Right Knowledge ), wielded by the great hero, the Sadguru, who has already beheaded the ghost, (His own) mind.
                                        V. 282, GVK , Tr. Sri Sadhu Om


Sri Sadh Om says that Lord Shiva’s Divine Dance in the ‘smasana’ cannot be seen until the dancing of the ghosts always present there is not stopped. Likewise, this Verse says that the Divine Dance of the Sphurana , “I-I”, which is the significance of of the Dance of Nataraja, until the rebellious mind-ghost, which dances as ‘I’, is beheaded by the Grace of the Sadguru.



Just as the sight of a loin appearing in its dream will awaken an elephant from sleep, so also the Darshan of the Sadguru will awaken the disciple from the dream  of this present waking state, which is merely an illusion, into the state of Jnana.
                                                V.-283, GVK, Tr. Sri Sadhu Om


Even our present waking state is a dream. Dream always happens upon the background of sleep. So, here, our apparent forgetfulness of Pure Self-Consciousness is being referred to as the sleep upon which the drama of the present waking state is playing. Sri Sadhu Om says that what is destroyed by the Sadguru is not only the drama of our present waking state, but also the much prolonged sleep of Self-forgetfulness, which is the background of all these dreams, our many deaths and births.


Just as a deer caught in the jaws of a tiger (cannot escape), so those who are caught by the glance of the Sadguru’s Grace will never be abandoned, but, having their ego and vasanas completely destroyed, they will realize the non-dual Truth.
                                                                                         V. 284, GVK, Tr Sri Sadhu Om


“ To be destroyed is to be saved.” This well-known simile was first used by Sri Bhagwan In ‘Who am I ?’ Sri Muruganar says that a deer caught in the jaws of a tiger would generally be considered to be an object of pity, since it will certainly be devoured. Yet, Sri Bhagwan uses this as a simile to console devotees and to assure them that they can never escape from the Sadguru, and will surely be saved by Him. He is the mighty Tiger who will consume the ego, the root of all miseries.

Thank you,
   Anil     
 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 26, 2011, 09:35:24 AM



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan however, stressed the baby-monkey method in His
Who am I?  He advised that the efforts must be necessary on the
part of sadhaka. 

Qn.No.20:

Is it not possible for God and the Guru to effect the release of a soul?

Answer:  God and the Guru will only show the way to release.  They
will not themselves take the soul to the state of release.

In truth, God and the Guru are not different. Just as the prey which has fallen into the jaws of a tiger has no escape, so those who have come within the ambit of the Guru's gracious look will be saved by the Guru and will not get lost.  YET EACH ONE SHOULD, BY HIS OWN EFFORT PURSUE THE PATH BY GOD OR THE GURU AND GAIN RELEASE.  One can know oneself only with one's own eye of knowledge, and not with somebody else's.  Does he who is Rama require the help of a mirror to know that he is Rama?




Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 26, 2011, 04:01:56 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan has mentioned that when the devotion is like the baby monkey (partial surrender), effort has to be made by the sadhaka, as the baby monkey must cling to the chest of the mother monkey when she moves around. But when devotion grows with perseverance and culminates in self-surrender, this devotion has been compared by Sri Bhagwan with Kitten monkey. The mother monkey picks up the kitten monkey whenever she moves around. It itself does not has to make any effort.

My present posting is at a place where there is a large population of monkeys. But I hardly cared to observe their behaviour. An army of monkeys are always parading and jumping around the building in which I reside and sometimes a few monkeys  even barge in when there is an opportunity.   So, after reading in one of your posts about the similes of the baby and kitten monkeys, I decided to keenly observe the behaviour of the monkeys. I found that baby monkey is always on the watch out to cling to the chest of the mother monkey.  However, the kitten monkey is invariably picked by the mother when she moves.

Ji. Yes. Sri Bhagwan has said that effort must be made by sadhakas  and pursue the path shown by God or Guru to gain release.  “ One can know oneself only with one’s own eye of knowledge and not with somebody else’s. ” Guru shows the Path and it is the duty of the sadhakas to pursue it with perseverance diligently.  Guru is God Himself and He will not realize It for the sadhakas.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: ramanaduli on February 27, 2011, 07:03:36 AM
Dear Anil ji,

Yes. Guru is like doctor who diagonise the patient's ill health and gives medicine. But the patient should eat the medicine to get cured. Doctor cannot have the medicine for patient's sake. In the same way guru shows the path, the sadhaka's duty to follow guru's path to understand who is he.

Ramanaduli
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 27, 2011, 09:01:14 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  Efforts are always stressed by Sri Bhagavan.  We should listen to His teachings and act as per His teachings.  But efforts should be our own. 

Dear ramanaduli,

Yes.  One should take the medicine as prescribed by the doctor [guru].  We should put efforts and in the process, there will be sufferings too.  One has to put up with the sufferings.  One Azhwar has sung:

Like the surgeon who cuts your wound, with a sharp heated
knife, you are making me to suffer but the end result is good.
The patient, though the physician is cutting his wound with a
hot knife, he would still love the doctor, [guru], because he is
giving the cure.

VaaLal aRuthu chudinum, maruthuvar paal
maaLatha kadhal NoyaLalan  pola....



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 27, 2011, 09:36:32 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri ramanaduli,

Thank you so much for very nice posts regarding effort required by a sadhaka. It is worth mention that some aspirants who came to Sri Bhagwan were in such great hurry that they sought Self-Realization from Sri Bhagwan then and there. Some even wanted It before they could board trains in time, forgetting the effort required to be put in by them.
(posted by a mobile phone from train)

 Regards,
   Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 27, 2011, 10:49:35 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir and Sri ramanaduli,

A doctor will not take the medicine for patient's sake. He only diagonises the illness and prescribes the medicines. From here onwards, it is the duty of the patient himself, for his own good, that he adheres strictly to the doctor's prescription.

Good health is natural and desirable. Disease and illness is unnatural and undesirable.  Sri Bhagwan has said that Jnana is eternal and natural and Ajnana is unnatural as well as unreal. He, the Guru, diagonises our disease afflicting us from time immemorial and prescribes panecia, wonderful, magical medicine which cures all sorts of diseases along with their root cause. That wonderful 'Medicine' is Atma-Vichara.
 
Sri Bhagwan says that 'I' cannot eliminate itself. All we need do is to find out its origin and abide there. As I remember, Sri Bhagwan says ( Talk-197) that our effort can extend only thus far. Thereafter, Sri Bhagwan says that the Beyond takes care of Itself. One is helpless after he has reached that stage in one's sadhana. Sri Bhagwan says that no effort can reach It.
 
Sri Bhagwan says that 'your effort is only meant not to allow yourself to be distracted by thoughts'. And He gave infallible weapon, Self-enquiry, to subdue not only thoughts but to  destroy   the thinker as well.

Therefore, our effort must go on untill we find out the Source of our mind and abide there. Then, the  Supreme Guru says that  the Guru takes care from here.

(posted by a mobile phone from a train)

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 27, 2011, 01:56:23 PM
 I mentioned the word 'panecia' in my previous post. The correct spelling for the word is 'panacea' which means remedy for all diseases,troubles etc. Atma-Vichara, or Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is certainly panacea for not only our diseases and troubles but for the entire humanity.

" To know that there never was ignorance is the goal of all the spiritual teachings. Ignorance must be of one who is aware. Awareness is Jnana. Jnana is eternal and natural. Ajnana is unnatural and unreal."
                                                                                                                            Sri Bahgwan

" Ignorance must be of one who is aware. " Any comment ?

Thank you,
   Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on February 28, 2011, 08:39:21 AM


Dear Anil,

"To be aware" is to be aware of something, an object or a thing
outside you.  This implies duality.  That is there is 'I' and there
is 'You'.  Then slowly He, She, It will start. All because of "I'
trying to be aware of something.  This, Sri Bhagavan calls as
"Thanmai"  i.e first person in English, in Verse 14 of ULLadu Narpadu.  This 'Thanmai' gives rise to "Munnilai", You, the second
person.  Then comes "Padarkai", third person like He, She and It.

Basically the problem is due to 'I' which objectifies.  If this
'I', its real nature is investigated then this little 'I' will shine
as there is Awareness, full of effulgence.  One should therefore,
ever remain as Awareness and not be aware of something else.
Hence ignorance is to be aware.  Knowledge is Awareness.

Verse 14 of ULLadu Narpadu:

'You' and 'he' -- these appear only when 'I' does.  But when
the nature of the 'I' is sought and the ego is destroyed, 'you'
and 'he' are at an end.  What shines then as the One also is the
true Self.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 28, 2011, 09:16:40 AM
For whom is the ignorance ? There must be one who says I do not know. ‘ I know’ and ‘I do not know ’ imply a subject and an object. They are due to duality. Sri Bhagwan says that the Self is pure and absolute, One and alone and that there are no two selves so that one may know the other. So, what is the cause of the duality then ? Obviously, it cannot be the Self which is One and One alone. IT MUST BE NON-SELF.

True Seer is One. Sri Bhagwan says in Talk-144 that the ignorant Self sees the objects according to you. If you say that you see the objects, or if you say you do not know the Real Unity, it implies two selves, one the knower and the other the knowable object. But no one will admit of two selves in himself. The awakened man says that he himself, the present awakened man, was in the deep slumber and not a different man from the present one. There is only one Self and that Self is always aware.

“ There is no such thing as ignorance. It never arises. Everyone is KNOWLEDGE ITSELF. Only Knowledge does not shine easily. The dispelling of ignorance is wisdom which always exists-e.g., the necklace round the neck though supposed to have been lost. Or each of the ten fools failing to count himself and counting only the others.”

                                                        Talks, no-199


Dear devotees and seekers, Sri Bhagwan says one is ever realized. But he says that he does not experience It. Who says so ? To whom is this ignorance ? Nay. To whom this knowledge or ignorance ? Certainly not to the Self. All-Seeing Self is All-Awareness. THEREFORE, IT IS ONLY TINY, INSIGNIFICANT, FALSE, IMAGINED  NON-SELF WHICH IS LAMENTING I DO NOT KNOW. Cease to be non-Self and we are That. Cease to be this and that and you are That. This clearly means, beyond any doubt whatsoever, that ‘I’ is already That. In Truth, it cannot be anything else.

So, ignorance is for the non-Self only. So long as I think that I am ‘i’, the not-Self, All-Seeing Self will be seeing according to ‘i’ only and all are thoughts including ‘i’. Ponder.

Therefore, Sri Bhagwan says that ignorance is only of one who is aware. Awareness is Jnana which is eternal and natural.

Thank you,
   Anil   

 

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 28, 2011, 09:36:54 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

"All because of "I'
trying to be aware of something.  This, Sri Bhagavan calls as
"Thanmai"  i.e first person in English, in Verse 14 of ULLadu Narpadu.  This 'Thanmai' gives rise to "Munnilai", You, the second
person.  Then comes "Padarkai", third person like He, She and It."


You have posted a very brilliant explanation of the ensuing problem that we face at present.Thank you so much sir.
All problems are due to 'I' trying to be aware of something outside 'I'. If it is as "It is", as the Self, as 'I', alone, there is neither inside and outside,nor 'i', 'you' etc. There will be no Thanmai to give rise to Munnilai.

Regards,
  Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on February 28, 2011, 03:59:53 PM
One cannot remain unconscious even for a trice. “ Even for a trice you do not leave my mind.” So, when we say that we were unconscious in our sleep, we refer only to qualified consciousness. We are so rooted in forms that the relative consciousness such as I, you, he, world, body, etc. is taken to be the Self and when this relative consciousness is absent, as in deep sleep, we say that we were unconscious. No body says in his sleep that he is unconscious. He says so when he wakes up which is the state of the relative consciousness. But Sri Bhagwan says that Consciousness Itself is beyond relative consciousness and unconsciousness. So, everyone intuitively knows that there never was a break in his existence, in his being, implying there never was a break in their consciousness.


“The I-thought is like a spirit, although not palpable, rises simultaneously with the body, flourishes and disappears with it.”
                                                                               Talk-197

I-thought or the ego or the Aham vritti, as everyone is now aware, is the function of the mind and which is Absolute Consciousness broken up by cognition of the thoughts, senses etc. where as the Consciousness or Aham Sphurana or the Light of ‘I-I’ is unbroken and continuous. This unbroken and continuous consciousness is our natural and primal state which asserts itself when relative consciousness subsides.   

Sri Bhagwan says that you are ever realized. The fact of your contrary belief is the obstruction. This contrary belief arises because you think that the non-self is you. This is the mistake. By enquiry, “ Who am I ? ”, we should grasp, hold, and abide in the Self and not take the not-Self to be the Self. There is no doubt whatever that by ‘Who am I ?’ enquiry, practiced as Sri Bhagwan taught, the Self will gradually be evident.   


Sri Bhagwan : There are no two selves-for the self to speak of the non-realization of the Self. ( Talk-317)

Thank you,
    Anil
       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 01, 2011, 09:32:37 AM
Beating is the function of the physical heart. The Spiritual Heart Sri Bhagwan speaks of is the Seat of Consciousness or the Consciousness Itself. Therefore, although the Consciousness pervades everything known and unknown, Seat of Realization is the Spiritual Heart within. It cannot be found outside oneself externally. Sri Bhagwan says that ‘just as a dynomo supplies motive power to whole systems of lights, fans, etc., so the Primal Force supplies energy to the beating of the heart, respiration, etc.’. 

Devotee: How is ‘I-I’ Consciousness felt ?
Sri Bhagwan : As an unbroken awareness of ‘I’. It is simply consciousness.
Devotee : Can we know it when it dawns ?
Sri Bhagwan : Yes, as consciousness. You are that even now. There will be no mistaking it when it is pure.
                                                               Talk-205

Our awareness of ‘I’ is broken, appears and disappears, and emanates ghost-like from the ‘I-I’ Consciousness, as sparks proceeds from the fire. ‘I-I’ Consciousness is One Infinite Consciousness encompassing all that is and beyond. With Grace, and Self-attention, It can be recognized as Pure Consciousness. Sri Bhagwan says there is no mistaking It when It is pure.

There is no need for the devotees of Bhagwan Sri Ramana to meditate on an object outside oneself.

Devotee : On what should we meditate ?
Sri Bhagwan : Who is the meditator ? Ask the question first. Remain as the meditator. There is no need to meditate.
                                                                         Talk-205

Remaining merely as  meditator is key to Realization of the Natural, Primal State.

Thank you.
   Anil     


Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 01, 2011, 11:11:50 AM



Dear Anil,

Sri Bhagavan says that summa irutthal [i.e being still] is the true
Wisdom-insight.  Jnana Dhrishti.  The arts of telling what happens in a far place, or knowing the past, present and future, knowing other man's mind are all not Wisdom Insight.  [Who am I?]



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 01, 2011, 03:52:29 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Sri Bhagwan says that ‘the highest sidhi is realization of the Self; for, here once you realize the truth you cease to be drawn to the path of ignorance’.

Sri Bhagwan has said that ‘I’ is One, either you spell it as ‘I’ or as ‘EYE’.

“Pleasure and pain are relative and refer to our finite state, with progress by satisfaction of wants. If relative progress is stopped and the soul merges in the Brahman-of the nature of the perfect peace-that soul ceases to have relative, temporary pleasure and enjoys perfect peace-Bliss. Hence Self-Realization is Bliss; it is realizing the Self as the limitless spiritual eye ( jnana dristi ) and not clairvoyance; it is the highest self-surrender. Samsara (the world-cycle) is sorrow.”
                                                                             Talk-28

Self-Realization is realizing the Self as the Infinite Spiritual EYE. Seer is One. “ See That which sees.”

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil

   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 01, 2011, 03:54:26 PM
Sri Muruganar says in Guru Vachaka Kovai that Jnana tops all sidhis and those who have attained Atma-swarupa have indeed attained all other sidhis in full measure.

 “ Though sidhis are said to be many and diverse, that which tops them all is jnana. Those who have attained other sidhis will long for jnana, but those who have attained jnana will desire non of the other sidhis. Therefore, seek jnana alone.
                                                                  V. 1212, GVK, edited by Sri David Godman


Those who has acquired sidhis are no jnanis. They are as ignorant as the common man or worse. They display their trade far and wide for mere lively-hood.

“ Those who have attained Atma-swarupa have, through that unique attainment, indeed attained all other sidhis simultaneously and in full measure. Like the entire universe existing in space, all other sidhis will eremain, either manifest or unmanifest, in the jnani who is perfected in Atma-jnana.”
                                                                       V. 1213, GVK, Edited by Sri David Godman

Thank you,
    Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 02, 2011, 09:00:26 AM
Whole objective world is within the subjective consciousness. Truth of one’s own existence is undeniable. This great truth is self-evident to each and every one of us. Sri Bhagwan asks, “ Can you deny the undeniable fact of your existence ? ”

Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan’s approach to the Absolute Truth is from the Existence or Sat or Being aspect, as contrasted with the other approaches to the Reality which invariably take one, two or more aspects of the objective world.

‘I’-feeling is known to all of us. Tracing one’s ‘I’ to its source is, to investigate where from it springs, is cent percent certain to reveal the Ultimate Truth. Initially, almost all of us identify this ‘I’ with the grossest form of identification i.e. the body. Here it is worth mention that it is surprising, to say the least, that what a ‘leela’ (play) it is that That which is Pure Consciousness, Pure Knowledge, Pure Intelligence comes inextricably to be identified with the insentient body.

But, we, the devotees of Bhagwan Sri Ramana, have understood this by now and made efforts to detach ourselves from this insulting and the grossest form of identification. Our coming to the Guru, learning and practicing the Path taught by Him, our perseverance on the Path, all these obviously show that our relation with the body has sufficiently become attenuated because this belief of ‘I am the body’ has been persistently challenged by the “ Who am I ? ” investigation. The ‘hriday granthi’ or the knot that ties the Pure Intelligence with the totally insentient body has certainly grown weaker. Our attention is now more and more getting riveted to the Pure Sentience from the ‘lump of earth’ that is the insentient body. Now it is palpable that ‘I’ cannot be the mere insentient body.
                                                                ( To continue in the next post )

Thank you,
   Anil             

   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 02, 2011, 09:03:35 AM
Self Enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is termed as Atma Vichara which is based on the undeniable fact of our own existence, the subjective consciousness, ‘I’-feeling, present in the hearts of every beings. When thoroughly acquainted, mastered, and practiced intelligently with whole heart, this great Path acts in two ways. First, it purifies the mind by degrees by effectively and efficiently warding off the thoughts. Second, by analysis, reflection, deep contemplation and intense enquiry, the insignificant, limited, insentient and the transient nature of the body and the world gradually become crystal-clear to the intellect as contrasted with the Pure and Infinite Intelligence that ‘I’, in truth, is. It becomes obvious with perseverance that Pure Intelligent ‘I’ alone is the pervader in his body  as the life and consciousness. This Eternal, Infinite, and Intelligent Pervader alone remains when thoughts are finally eliminated by the twin weapons of Atma Vichara “ Who am I ?” and “ Whence am I ?”.  After all, it is not for nothing that the above twin weapons have been compared to ‘Brahmastra’ and the Path Itself has been termed as ‘The Royal Straight Path’.

Thank you,
    Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 02, 2011, 09:31:18 AM
 Dear Devotees,

 To the devotees of Bhagwan Sri Ramana the world over, Lord Sri Arunachala is 'The Light Of Knowledge' and the Supreme Lord of the Universe who Himself incarnated as Guru Sri Ramana.

Sri Bhagwan says in Tall-218 that the Linga originally manifested as Sri Arunachala when the moon was in the constellation of Orion (Ardra) in December. However, He was first worshiped on Sivaratri day which is held sacred even now.

Today is the Sivaratri day. Sri Arunachala stands splendid in Tiruvannamalai conveying His State from heaven to earth. we all cannot reach there today. But,Sri Bhagwan also says that Sri Arunachala is within you as your own Self.Therefore, worship of the Self, from where ever we are, is the true worship to Him. Sri Bhagwan has also said that Sivaratri day is the 'Day of the Marriage of the Father and the Mother'.

Thank you,
    Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 02, 2011, 01:29:01 PM



Dear Anil,

Yes. Today is Maha Sivaratri.  On this day [see Sri Bhagavan's
Tamizh verses on Sri Arunachala Mahatmyam, the Linga which was
hitherto a huge column of Light, became a Hill and all Devas starting from Vishnu started worshipping It.

In Sri Sankara TV Channel, today one gentleman spoke on some
verses of Sivananda Lahari.  He spoke very nicely.  Sivanananda
Lahari brims with bhakti bhava.  Sri Bhagavan has selected some
9 or 10 verses from this work and asked devotees to chant, whenever they could.



Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 02, 2011, 03:04:30 PM

Today is Maha Sivaratri.  On this day [see Sri Bhagavan's
Tamizh verses on Sri Arunachala Mahatmyam, the Linga which was
hitherto a huge column of Light, became a Hill and all Devas starting from Vishnu started worshipping It.

In Sri Sankara TV Channel, today one gentleman spoke on some
verses of Sivananda Lahari.  He spoke very nicely.  Sivanananda
Lahari brims with bhakti bhava.  Sri Bhagavan has selected some
9 or 10 verses from this work and asked devotees to chant, whenever they could.

Nandi said :
" That is the holy place. Of all Arunachala is the most sacred ! It is the heart of the world ! Know it to be the secret  and sacred Heart-centre of Siva ! In that place he always abides as the glorious Aruna Hill !"

" That day on which the ancient and wonderful linga of Arunachala took shape is the asterism of Ardra in the month of Mrigasira. And the day on which Vishnu and the other devas worshipped the Lord who emerged in the form of effulgence is the day of Maha Sivaratri."

Siva Said :
" Though in fact fiery, my lacklustre appearance as a hill on this spot is an act of grace and loving solicitude for the maintenance of the world. Here I always abide as the Great One ( Sidha ). Remember that in the interior of my Heart is transcendental glory with all the enjoyments of the world also."


Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Do you mean to say that the above Verses were composed by Sri Bhagwan in Tamizh ? For, these Verses have been cited here from 'Sri Arunachala Mahatmya', included in the 'Collected Works of Sri Ramana Maharshi'. I thought that this was an ancient work which was translated by Sri Bhagwan into Tamizh and this is the reason for the inclusion of this Divine Work in the Collection.

You have also mentioned about 'Sivananda Lahri' in your post and also informed that Sri Bhagwan selected some 9 or 10 verses from this work. Dear sir, I have so far not read this work, although I have time and again seen its reference. Kindly tell us something about this important work, and also kindly inform where the verses, selected by Sri Bhagwan, from this work, is to be found.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil   

Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 02, 2011, 05:37:35 PM



Yes.  These verses originally in Sanskrit were in Skandam etc.,
Sri picked them up and rendered in Tamizh.

On Maha Sivaratri, there is one more story.  On a Sivaratri night,
at around 8 p.m. T. K. Sundaresa Iyer and other devotees sat around
Sri Bhagavan's sofa and asked Him to say about Sri Dakshinamurty
Stotram.  Sri Bhagavan nodded and kept silent.  It was 10 pm, 12 mn, 2 am, 4 am and then 6 am.  Not a word came from the mouth of Sri Bhagavan.  Then, at 6 am. He said: okay, let us take coffee!

What Sri Dakshinamurty who spoke in silence, can be explained in a talk?  Silence was his speech.  And the disciples understood and they had no doubts.

Actually Sri Bhagavan has rendered in Tamizh 11 verses of Sri
Dakshinamurty Stotram.  These are available in Collected Works.
He also wanted to write an elaborate commentary on Sri Dakshinamurty Stotram. However, it was not to come through.

There is of course one commentary on Sri Dakshinamurty Stotram called Manosollasa by Sureswarar, Sri Sankara's disciple. It is translated into English also and is available in Sri Ramakrishna Math.  Pure essence of advaitam.



Arunachala Siva.     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 03, 2011, 08:41:04 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for pointing out that the Verses contained in the 'Sri Arunachala Mahatmya' were  taken by Sri Bhagwan from the ancient works, such as Skandam etc and rendered in Tamizh by Him.

The story narrating the 'Maha Mouna' on a Maha Sivaratri night that Sri Bhagwan observed to teach His devotees is very, very inspiring. There is no doubt about 'His Identity'. He Himself has said and indicated that He is the same as Sri Arunachala and Sri Dakshinamurty.

Dear sir, I wished you to kindly tell me something about Sivananda Lahri as well.

Regards,
  Anil 

 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 03, 2011, 08:47:05 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

“ Heart is the centre of the Real. But the ego is impermanent. Like everything else it is supported by the Heart centre. But the character of the ego is a link between spirit and matter; it is a knot (granthi), the knot of radical ignorance in which one is steeped. This granthi is there in the ‘Hrit’, the Heart. When this knot is cut asunder by proper means you find that this is the Self’s centre.”
                                    Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi

Therefore, so long as this knot, the granthi, is not cut asunder by proper means, one cannot reach the Self’s centre.

Dear sir, Sri Bhagwan has mentioned about a passage (nadi) from the Heart centre called, Atmanadi, Brahmanadi orAmritanadi. Sri Bhagwan says that this nadi is the passage of liberation and this is the nadi that is referred to in the Upanishads.

“ When this passage is open, you have no moha, no ignorance. You know the Truth even when you talk, think or do anything-dealing with men and things.”
                                                     Upanishads

 
Devotee : Hearing all this I am puzzled. I do not know how one can get such great experiences by simply bearing in mind the sayings “ See the Seer “, “ know thyself ”, etc.

[ In the beginning, when I came to know about the Amritanadi, I was puzzled and wondered how one can this great passage can be opened by merely raising the question, “ Who am I ? ” But when I understood Sri Bhagwan’s Teaching in its entirety, all doubts were cleared. However, now I wish to know more about the Atmanadi Sri Bhagwan refers to. Hence, I would request you to kindly let me know your mind about this Great Nadi.] Please, see Sri Bhagwan’s reply to the above question.

Sri Bhagwan : It is difficult indeed, but not impossible once you are earnest about it….
That is why they say you must have the touch of Grace. The influence of Jnanin steals into you in silence…. He need not talk.
                                         Sat-Darshana Bhashya and Talks with Maharshi


Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil




   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 03, 2011, 09:05:56 AM



Dear Anil,

Among the various compositions of bhakti and prayer [Stotra-granthas] of Sri Sankara, Sri Soundarya Lahari and Sri Sivananda
Lahari are the best.  While the former, glorifies Mother, in which
in 100 verses, the first 41 verses are full of mantras.  Then the remaining verses speak about the beauty of Mother from head to toe.

Sri Sivananda Lahari however, is full of devotion, and devotion only.
It contains again 100 verses.  It is said to have been composed in
Sri Sailam Temple, in Andhra Pradesh, by Sri Sankara.  Each verse
speaks of Siva's abundant grace and kindness.   The English version
is available in Sri Ramakrishna Math.

Among 100 verses, Sri Bhagavan selected 10 verses and recommended them for  chanting whenever possible.

These are: 1) Verse No. 61;  2) Verse No. 76;  3) Verse No. 83;
4) Verse No. 6;  5) Verse No. 65:  6) Verse No. 15:  7) Verse No.
12;  8) Verse No. 9:  9)  Verse No.11  10)  Verse No. 91.



Arunachala Siva.
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 03, 2011, 02:09:23 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for giving important information about Sri Sivananda Lahari of Sri Sankara and pointing out the verse no. of 10 nos. verses, selected and recommended for chanting, whenever possible, by Sri Bhagwan.I shall search for this book in Book Stalls in Patna and in Sri Ramkrishna Math. I have with me a copy of Sri Soudarya Lahari with Sanskrit Text, transliteration, translation and notes based on Sri Laksmidhara's commentary by Sri Swami Tapasyananda of Sri Ramkrishna Math. The Mother is adored in Her creative aspect under the name Tripura in this famous Text. The first 41 Verses, out of 100 Verses in the Great Composition, are said to be the source of various Mantras as you said. This Work is highly technical. The preface to the first edition says that the Mantras and the ways of adoration  that are advocated in it must be learnt by a competent student from a competent teacher. This is the reason, perhaps, that whenever I tried to read this Great Work in the past, I couldn't proceed far. However, from your post, it appears that Sri Sivananda Lahari is full of devotion and we can read and understand this Composition even without learning from a competent teacher.

Dear sir, I wish that you kindly say something on 'Amrianadi' as well.

Regards,
  Anil
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 04, 2011, 09:13:33 AM
A devotee asked from Sri Bhagwan :

There are said to be six organs of different colours in the chest, of which the heart is said to be two finger-breadths to the right of the middle line. But the Heart is also formless. Should we then imagine it to have a shape and meditate on it ?

We all have been reading and hearing about six organs of different colours in the chest and also that among them the Heart is two finger-breadths to the right of the middle line of the chest. So, Sri Bhagwan, out of compassion, gives a physical location for That which is formless so that those who are still infatuated with the ‘I am body’ idea or imagination may have a tangible form to look for. Sri Bhagwan says that the source of ‘I-ness’ is the Spiritual Heart, as contrasted with the physical and beating heart in the left side of the chest. Sri Bhagwan says that a Realized sage experiences the Heart-centre two finger-breadths to the right of the middle line of the chest in relation to the body. Sri Bhagwan replies to the above question :

Sri Bhagwan : No. Only the quest “ Who am I ?” is necessary. What remains all through deep sleep and waking is the same. But in waking there is unhappiness and the effort to remove it. Asked who wakes from sleep you say ‘I’. Now you are told to hold fast to this ‘I’. If this is done the eternal being will reveal Itself. Investigation of ‘I’ is the point and not meditation on the heart-centre. There is nothing like within or without. Both mean either the same or nothing.
                                                               Talk-130

                                                               ( To continue in the next post)

Thank you,
   Anil     




Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 04, 2011, 09:18:47 AM
Sri Bhagwan’s Atma Vichara is not about meditation on the Heart-centre. Investigation of ‘I’ is the point. How can all-pervading Existence be investigated within or without, inside or outside, up or down ? There is no within or without, no inside or outside and no up or down. These are mere imagined concepts. They all either mean the same thing or nothing.

Sri Bhagwan says that meditation on centres other than the ‘Heart’ is only a practice and not the investigation. Sri Bhagwan says that those who meditate on other centres cannot remain aware of the stillness of the mind when it is brought about, but they only infer this stillness of the mind after it again becomes active. On the contrary, the one who meditates on the heart or holds fast to this ‘I’ can remain aware when the mind ceases to be active and remains still.

Stillness does not mean blankness. Contrary to our belief thinking is not the true mode of life. Ours is the Life Eternal. Existence-Consciousness alone is Eternal. I-thought and all associated thoughts are alien to us which prevent our realizing the True Nature as Existence-Consciousness and Bliss. Stillness means not to think but remain, all the same, fully aware without thinking. Dear devotees, Sri Bhagwan says that there is an indescribably wonderful, wonderful Life beyond thinking. Know, and not think, is the word.

Thank you,
    Anil     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 04, 2011, 03:24:09 PM



Dear Anil,

The yogis say that there is a nadi [psychic center] called Jiva nadi,
or Atma nadi or para nadi.  The Upanishads speak of a center from
which thousands of nadis branch off.  Some locate such a center in the brain and others in other centers.  The details have been spoken of in great detail by Sri Bhagavan in Talk No. 616. 

Heart-Center on the right side of the chest two digits to the right of
midchest is only for the beginners who seek Atma Vichara.  In fact,
Heart is there all over the place like the Space, all pervading.
We are all in the Heart.  The Heart alone is there. It is from which all jivas take birth, get sustained, and then finally dissolve, and this is explained in Verse 2 of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam. 

For the seekers, for  the initial efforts, Sri Bhagavan speaks about the center on the right side of the chest.  These details are further given in ULLadu Narpadu, Supplement.



Arunachala Siva.   
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 04, 2011, 05:15:49 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

The passage of the current from the Heart to the brain is through sushumna.The Upanishads speak of 'Pare leena'. Sri Bhagwan says that sushumna and all such nadis are comprised in 'Para' which is the atma nadi. The name 'Pare leena' itself implies that all nadis must merge into Para. My question was prompted because I read in Talk-58 that yogis believe that the current rising to sahasrara (brain) ends there. But Sri Bhagwan says that this experience is not complete. For Jnana they must come to the Heart. The Heart is the alpha and omega.

After reading your post, I read Talk-616 also. Sri Bhagwan says that samadhi ensues when one concentrates on Sahasrara, but the latent tendencies are not destroyed. So, the yogi must come down from sahasrara to to the Heart through what is called the jivnadi which is the continuation of the Sushumna. Thus the Sushumna is thus a curve.Starting from the solar plexus and rising through the spinal chord, it reaches the brain or Sahasrara and from there it bends down and and ends in the Heart.

Having discussed as above, I wish to say that Sri Bhagwan has assured ( Talk-616) that those who adopts Atma Vichara and seeks the origin of their ego by diving in the Heart need not worry about nadis, the brain, the Sushumna, the paranadi, the kundalini, pranayama or the six centres.

Dear sir, you have mentioned that Heart-centre on the right side of the chest two digits to the right of midchest is only for the beginners. I would rather say that it is for those who have not got rid of the 'I am body' Idea and remain infatuated with the body and the world. Otherwise, how and what those with the body idea search for the Self. So, they are given a tangible and physical location for the Self.

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
  Anil
   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 05, 2011, 08:42:18 AM
Sri Bhagwan says, " To go to Kailash and return is just a new birth. For there the body-idea drops off ".
                                                                                                           Talk-635

But here is the Kailash ?

Sri Bhagwan : Kailash is on the Himalayas: it is the abode of Siva. Whereas this Hill is Siva Himself. All the paraphernalia of His abode must also be where He Himself is.
                                                                                  Talk-143

Sri Paul Brunton : What is the mystery of this Hill ( Sri Arunachala ) ?

Sr Bhagwan : Just as you have said in Secret Egypt, " The mysrery of the pyramid is the mystery of the Self," so also the mystery of this Hill is the mystery of the Self.
                                                                             Talk-143

Any comment ?

Thank you,
   Anil
 
                                                                                                                                                                             
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 05, 2011, 08:48:20 AM
Sri Patanjali’s First Sutra :

Yogas chitta vritti nirodhah
Yoga is to check the mind from changing.

The effort made to still the mind is Yoga. Cessation of the mental activities is the common aim of all paths and margas and, therefore, is applicable to all systems of Yoga.

On the Path of Jnana mind itself is examined and when the mind is examined, Sri Bhagwan says that its activities cease automatically. Meditation is concentrating upon one thought to the exclusion of all other thoughts. Concentration on a single thought make all other thoughts disappear and finally that thought also disappears. Cessation of mental activities may be achieved by Pranayama also. But Sri Bhagwan’s method is searching for the source of the mind. Sri Bhagwan says that when the source of the mind is reached by the enquiry, the ego-mind is merged there bringing about cessation of all mental activities. The purpose of all methods is the same- cessation of the mental activities. Only methods differ.

While controlling thoughts, one point should always be remembered. Sri Bhagwan says that it is necessary to remain aware while controlling the thoughts. Else sleep would be induced. By Pranayama mind is steadied by suppressing the thoughts. Sri Bhagwan used to narrate a story of a yogi on the bank of a river who fell prey to ‘manolaya’ for a very long period of time. Sri Bhagwan says that the awareness is the chief factor is indicated by the fact of Sri Patanjali emphasizing pratyahara, dharana, dhyana, and Samadhi even after cessation of the mental activities is achieved by Pranyama. This is because awareness is the chief factor. Otherwise, Sri Bhagwan says that such states can be easily imitated by taking drugs etc. These artificially induce states do not lead to liberation because they lack the All-Important Awareness.

Thank you,
    Anil       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 05, 2011, 08:51:30 AM
 The second line in my post, re. no 674 should be read , " Where is the Kailash ? "

Thank you,
    Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 05, 2011, 09:15:02 AM
 Self is One and alone. What is duality then ? It must be non-Self. Duality is the characteristics of the ego. If thoughts are arising duality is still present. Sri Bhagwan says ; know it to be ego and seek its Source; go to their Source, where thoughts do not arise.

Sri Bhagwan says that Self-Realization itself does not admit of progress. It is ever the same. The Self remains only in Realization. But there are certainly stages in progress from the stand-point of the seeker. Sri Bhagwan says that 'the degree of the absence of thoughts is the measure of our progress towards Self-Realization'. So, thoughts are obstacles. And Sri Bhagwan says that 'progress is measured by the degree of removal of the obstacles to understanding that the Self is always realized'.

Well, in my view, this is a very important Statement. REMOVAL OF THE OBSTACLES TO UNDERSTANDING THAT THE SELF IS ALWAYS REALIZED IS THE MEASURE OF OUR PROGRESS TOWARDS SELF-REALIZATION.

Thank you,
   Anil
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 05, 2011, 04:34:01 PM


Dear Anil,

Yes.  Yogam [here means Jnanam ], is really chitta vritti nirodham,
controlling the mind from having thoughts.  The Silence that ensues
give along with Vichara gives realization.

Sri Bhagavan once humorously said:

You are all telling that you are not able to control thoughts.  I am
telling that no thought is coming to me!

One can imagine in what great epitome of advaita, He was!

Silence is true silence, not merely not speaking nor acting but being without any single thought. People observe mouna vratam, not speaking for a day or so, but their minds will be chewing a million thoughts.



Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 06, 2011, 09:39:39 AM
“ The unique letter exists as that which bestows the excellence of immaculate true jnana and as the source of all the (other) letters that are in use. It shines forever in the heart as the self-luminous Self. Who indeed can write it down ? ” 
                                               V. 1172, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman

 
Sri Bhagwan explains the nature of that one letter thus, “ The one letter ( Ekam Aksharam ), which is imperishable (aksharam) is that which always shines of its own accord (or as Self) in the Heart ! Who is able to write it ? ”

So, Sri Bhagwan means by the word ‘aksharam’ both letter as well as that which is imperishable. Therefore, That which is imperishable is one letter.

One Letter ( Ekam Aksharam) is the mother of all letters. Swarupam is the Ekam Aksharam.

Thank you,
    Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 06, 2011, 09:42:23 AM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Ji, yes, Sri Bhagwan’s Silence was eloquent.

“If one enquires, ‘What is that excellent language that possesses in abundance both truth and clarity, which is the source of all languages, and which possesses divine nature ? [the answer is] ‘That unique language is mauna, which was taught by Dakshinamurty, who is jnana-swarupa.”
                                                                  V. 1173, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman

Just below this Verse is quoted a Statement of Sri Bhagwan in reply to a question regarding Mouna which has been taken from Maharshi’s Gospel as following :

Devotee : What is Mouna ?

Sri Bhagwan : That which transcends speech and thought is mauna; it is meditation without mental activity. Subjugation of the mind is meditation: deep meditation is eternal speech. Silence is ever-speaking; it is perennial flow of ‘language’. It is interrupted by speaking; for words obstruct this mute ‘language’. Lectures may entertain individuals for hours without improving them. Silence, on the other hand, is permanent and benefits the whole of humanity. By Silence. Eloquence is meant. Oral lectures are not so eloquent as silence. Silence is unceasing eloquence. It is the best language.

“There is a state when words cease and silence prevails” 

Nature of Brahman is infinite Silence. Swarupa is ‘Anant Mouna ( Infinite Silence ).

                                                                               ( To continue in the next posts)

Thank you so much sir.

Regards,
   Anil                                       
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 06, 2011, 10:35:00 AM



Dear Anil,

But His Silence conferred bliss and removed the doubts of the devotees.  Sri Bhagavan used to say:  Silence is uninterrupted speech.
Yes. His Silence was the speech of the immortal gods.



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 06, 2011, 03:43:11 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

“ His Silence was the speech of the immortal gods.” Thank you so much sir.

Dear sir, you have mentioned in your post that His Silence conferred bliss and removed the doubts of the devotee. But I am cent percent certain, beyond doubt whatever, that His Silence is still conferring bliss and clearing the doubts of the devotee.

Sri Bhagwan says that by Silence, eloquence is meant. Oral lectures are not as eloquent as Silence. Silence is the unceasing, perennial eloquence.

To drive home this eloquence of Silence, Sri Bhagwan often narrated the story of Sita who was asked who her husband was among the rishis present there  (Sri Rama was Himself present in the guise of a rishi) in the forest by the wives of the rishis. She denied each one as every rishi was pointd to Her by turn. But She simply hung down Her head when Sri Rama was pointed out. Her Silence was eloquent. Her Silence conveyed more than what Her speech would have been able to. Similarly, Sri Bhagwan says that Vedas are eloquent in ‘neti’-‘neti’ and then remain silent.

“ Mouna vyakhya praktita tatvam ”. Truth expounded by Silence. Sri Bhagwan says in Talk-68 that Silence is so potent that it is said to be exposition. ( To continue)

Regards,
   Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 07, 2011, 08:28:55 AM
Vidyaranya says that twelve years’ forced mouna brings about abolute mouna. Sri Bhagwan says that such forced mouna makes one only unable to speak. It is more like a mute animal than otherwise. That is not mouna. Mouna as a disciplinary measure is meant for limiting the mental activity due to speech. However, if the mind is subdued by Vichara, disciplinary mouna is unnecessary. Mouna is then natural.

Silence that Sri Bhagwan speaks of is the perennial and never-ending speech. Vocal speech obstructs the other speech. Unlike the mute mouna of the animals brought about by the forced mouna, Silence of Brahman is eloquent and is said to be exposition.

“ For vocal speech, organs of speech are necessary and they precede speech. But the other speech lies even beyond thought. It is in short transcendental speech or unspoken words, para vak.”
                                                                                     Talk-68

Sri Bhagwan : Silence is of four kinds: silence of speech, silence of the eye, silence of the ear, and silence of the mind. Only the last is pure silence and is the most important. The commentary of silence is the best commentary as illustrated in Lord Dakshinamurty. Only silence is the eternal speech, the one word, the heart-to-heart talk. Silence is like the even flow of electric current. Speech is like obstructing the current for lightening and other purposes.
                                                   GVK, P-500, edited by Sri D. Godman

Only Silence is the eternal speech and is the mother of the vocal speech. All words emanates from the ‘Infinite Silence’ only. One experiences this Silence when the ego-mind is destroyed by enquiry or by any other methods.

Thank you,
   Anil
 

 
 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 07, 2011, 08:30:09 AM
If the Guru is silent the seeker’s mind gets purified by itself.
                                                                Sri Bhagwan

Sri Bhagwan says in Talk-445 that Mouna is the highest form of Upadesa and IT SIGNIFIES ‘SILENCE AS MASTER, DISCIPLE AND PRACTISER.

Vocal speech obstructs the other speech of Silence. This means that when the Guru is silent, the seeker is in the most intimate contact with Him. Otherwise, how the doubts of the four sages would have been cleared ?

Sri Bhagwan has said ( Talk-518 ) that Silence is the highest form of initiation. All other dikshas ( Initiation ), e.g., sparsa, chakshus etc. are derived from Mouna. They are therefore secondary. Mouna is the primary form of the initiation.


Therefore, the Mouna is the primary form of initiation which includes all other forms.

Why Mouna (Silence) is the primary form of initiation ? Sri Bhagwan explains in Talk-519 as following :

There must be subject-object relationship established in the other forms of initiations or dikshas. First the subject must rise followed by the object. Unless these two are there how is the one to look at the other or touch him ?

The above is, in my view, one of the greatest revelation ever with regard to initiation. When the Guru is Silent, when there is no rise of the subject ( the Guru) and the object (the seeker), Grace of the Self is in operation. Hence Silence is the highest form of initiation. Sri Bhagwan says that Mouna Diksha ( Innitiation in Silence ) s the most perfect form of initiation. It comprises looking, touching and teaching. It will purify individual in every way and establish him in the Reality.   

Thank you,
    Anil 
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 07, 2011, 10:07:08 AM
Yes, that Silence is beyond talking and non-talking. For talking and non-talking belong to mental realm. Mind rises from the Silence of the Self. Therefore, Infinite Silence of the Self is the basis of all mental activities.

Thank you,
    Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 07, 2011, 01:35:34 PM



Dear Anil,

Sri  Bhagavan used to remain silent and would have a vacant look.
Suddenly, He would turn and gaze at someone intently.  That silence
and gaze will remove all the doubts of the seeker who was gazed.

Mrs. Noye used to weep whenever Sri Bhagavan gazed at her like
that.  Weeping is a process of burning down the mind and thoughts.

Several other devotees have also said that gaze in silence, would
make them feel that they have no bodies and they were all only
the Self.



Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 07, 2011, 02:54:09 PM
Suddenly, He would turn and gaze at someone intently.  That silence
and gaze will remove all the doubts of the seeker who was gazed.


Several other devotees have also said that gaze in silence, would
make them feel that they have no bodies and they were all only
the Self.


Sri Bhagwan says in Talk-445 that Mouna is the highest form of Upadesa and IT SIGNIFIES ‘SILENCE AS MASTER, DISCIPLE AND PRACTISER.


Vocal speech obstructs the other speech of Silence. This means that when the Guru is silent, the seeker is in the most intimate contact with Him. Otherwise, how the doubts of the four sages would have been cleared ?


There must be subject-object relationship established in the other forms of initiations or dikshas. First the subject must rise followed by the object. Unless these two are there how is the one to look at the other or touch him ?

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

Thank you so much for a very nice post, sir.
Guru's Silence signifies Silence as Master and disciple.That means that the disciple is in most intimate contact with Him without Guru-disciple relationship or without the subject-object relationship established between them. Obviously, this relationship is very potent and the doubts of the seekers are cleared. So, that gaze in Silence would make them feel that they have no bodies and they were all only the Self.

Regards,
  Anil




Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 08, 2011, 07:57:39 AM
The abundant greatness of Brahman is that it cannot be made to shine by all the utterances, expositions and lectures. Because that Brahman shines forth through the rare and precious silence of the Guru, that mouna-discourse is the most powerful exposition.
                                                 V. 1174, GVK, Edited by Sri D. Godman   

So, oral expositions and lectures are not so eloquent as silence and Brahman cannot be made to shine by them. Guru’s silence is more precious. There is no division in Consciousness. When the guru is silent, in that Silence of unceasing eloquence, the false division in Consciousness as the Guru and the seeker is erased, and the doubts of the seeker is cleared in a trice revealing the Brahman to be his own Self.

Sri Bhagwan:

Youthful Guru ( Dakshinamurti ), you who,
Shining as the divine manifestation of God,
 At the head of the lineage of the Gurus,
Reveal the supreme truth,
The unique speech of (mouna)
That is the mind’s source
 Which is the mother of all language
But which, unlike the spoken word,
Neither appears nor disappears.

All the ancient treatises on jnana
Are merely an introductory preface,
Enunciated by the learned,
To your book of mouna,
Which confers true knowledge.
Are they not therefore alien to true understanding,
Those who, even though they have studied all the others,
Have lost their connection to that ( Book of) mouna ?

                                             GVK, P-500, Sri D. Godman
Than you,
   Anil   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 08, 2011, 07:59:09 AM
Seekers who came to Sri Bhagwan often prayed to Sri Bhagwan for His Grace. Sri Bhagwan replied that the Self is Grace. The Self is the Eternal Silence . So, Sri Bhagwan says that the Highest Form Of Grace is Silence. His Statement that Silence is the highest upadesa should be understood in this Light. Not only upadesa, Silence is also the loudest prayer as well. Sri Bhawan says in Talk-518 that for the seeker’s silence Guru’s Silence is the loudest upadesa. It is the Grace in the highest form which is interrupted by words. These words obstruct the perennial flow of the Language of Silence which is Grace Itself.

Sri Dakshinamurti, as has been revealed by Sri Bhagwan, first tried to clear the doubts of His four advanced disciples by answering to the doubts raised by them. But , Sri Bhagwan has narrated that as the Adi Guru went on clearing their doubts by speaking many more doubts were created in their mind. Knowing that the doubts of four sons of Sri Brahma cannot be cleared by words, Sri Dakshinamurti became silent and the doubts of the disciples came to an end at once.

Therefore, what one fails to know by oral explanations and conversation that may extend to several years can be known in a trice in Silence. Sri Bhagwan is that Silence embodied. Were not the doubts of those who understood this precious language of Silence were removed in front of the Embodied Silence, Sri Bhagwan ?

Thank you,
   Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 08, 2011, 09:12:38 AM



Dear Anil,

Yes.  Sri Bhagavan says in Atma Vidya Kirtanam, Verse 5 [In
Osborne's Collected Works, it is titled as Self Knowledge under
Miscellaneous Verses]:

For loosening karma's bonds and ending births,
This path is easier than all other paths,
Abide in stillness, without any stir
Of tongue, mind, body.  And behold
The effulgence of the Self within;
The experience of Eternity; absence
Of all fear, the ocean vast of Bliss.

[Tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan]



Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Om Hridayam on March 09, 2011, 02:13:44 PM
A beautiful quote, thank you.
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: Subramanian.R on March 09, 2011, 04:18:35 PM



Dear Om Hridayam,

There are six stanzas in that poem.   This is the 4th stanza:

Of what avail is knowing things
Other than the Self?  And the Self being known,
What other thing is there to know?
That one light that shines as many selves,
Seeing this Self within,
As Awareness' lightning flash;
The play of Grace; the ego's death;
The blossoming of Bliss.

[Tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan]

     
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 09, 2011, 05:35:04 PM
Lo, very easy is Self-Knowledge,
Lo, very easy indeed.

I wish to cite Verse- 3 and Verse- 6 of Atma-Vidya Kirtanam ( Self-Knowledge ) as follows :

The thought ‘ I am the body ‘ is the thread
On which are strung together various thoughts.
 Questing within, enquiring ‘Who am I ?
And whence this thought ? all other thoughts
Vanish. And as ‘I’, ‘I’ within the Heart-cave
The Self shines of its own accord.
Such Self-awareness is the only Heaven,
This stillness, this abode of Bliss.
                                             Verse-3,  Self-Knowledge
This Stillness, Life Eternal, is the Abode of Bliss Supreme. 

Annamalai the Self, the Eye
Behind the eye of mind which sees
The eye and all the other senses
 Which know the sky and other elements,
The Being which contains, reveals, perceives
 The inner sky that shines within the Heart
 When the mind free of thoughts turns inward,
Annamalai appears as my own Self.
True, Grace is needed; Love is added.
Bliss wells up.
                                            Verse-6, Self-Knowledge, Tr. Prof.  K. Swaminathan
So, Message is crystal-clear.  ‘ When only the mind free of thoughts turn inward, Annamalai appears as my own Self.’
Grace of the Master, Love of the seeker, Bliss wells up.

Thank you,
    Anil
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 09, 2011, 05:39:58 PM
I wish to conclude the on-going discussion on Silence with citation of  verses from ‘Occasional Verses’, included in  the Collected Works of Sri Ramana Maharshi, as following :

Silence

Silence, the unique language, ever surging in the
Heart, is the state of grace.


Miracle of Dakshinamurti

Who is the youthful guru beneath the banyan tree ?
Very old are the pupils who seek him.
The handsome teacher’s speech is silence.
Cleared are all the pupils’ doubts.

Under the wonderful banyan trees shines the youthful
Guru.  Aged pupils come to Him. Silence is this teacher’s
Speech. Gone are the doubts in the pupils’  minds.

Thank you,
    Anil

   
Title: Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
Post by: eranilkumarsinha on March 10, 2011, 06:43:50 AM
Sri Bhagwan says that unless one holds on to the Divine Power present within every one, the Consciousness of the Self, one cannot discard thoughts and attributes. Sri A.R. Natarajan , in his ‘ The Living Guru’ has included a conversation that Sri Viswanatha Swami had with Sri Bhagwan.
Sri Viswanatha Swami : How am I to rise above my present animal existence ? My own efforts in that direction have proved futile. I am convinced that it is only a superior might that could transform me.

Sri Bhagwan : Yes, you are right. It is only on this awakening of a power mightier than the senses and the mind that these can be subdued. If you awaken to and nurture the growth of this power within you everything else will be conquered.

We are all linked to the Power within but for which we cannot function at all. So, Sri Bhagwan e