The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi => Topic started by: srkudai on December 30, 2009, 01:26:28 PM

Title: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: srkudai on December 30, 2009, 01:26:28 PM
What is self inquiry?

Annamalai Swami explains it so clearly.
"Is this question of the mind or the Self? If its of the mind, its not your business coz you are the Self"

To do this with everything is Inquiry. The highest practice.

Just dont take what is not yours upon yourself.

Love!
Silence
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 30, 2009, 01:55:27 PM
Dear I,

Very true words! Same words from Ramana Maharshi goes like this:

"It is said “I AM that I AM”. That means a person must abide as the ‘I’. He is always the ‘I’ alone. He is nothing else. Yet he asks “Who am I?” A victim of illusion would ask “Who am I?” and not a man fully aware of himself. The wrong identity of the Self with the non-self makes you ask, “Who am I?”

Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 30, 2009, 02:50:51 PM
Dear I,

To analyse this exercise more practically, When the situation seems more demanding, to rightly put it, when we say that Vasanas are having a strong hold, like in real life situations, when say, for example, your loved one is behaving in a way he/she ought not be like that, who does not listen to you, and continues to be like that. How to exercise Self enquiry here, for one hand A is behaving badly, B is being insulted, hurt, C is asking you to look in and check A's temper, A is not listening at all, who remains totally adamant. B is still being insulted, is demanding to see his side truth hurt. C is still forcing. A is totally justifying its Stand of losing its temper.

What can a person do here.

1. Whether to remain silent and see who is it that is seeing all this, discriminate all these as illusions and remain at peace
2. Whether to listen to C's request and try and control A, who is still not listening, heeding at all, then remain at peace of being contented fr doing just the duty
3. B, who is being insulted, hurt is expecting some help, pulling the person to his side and see his truth
4. Whether to listen to A's stand of his reason to lose temper which is being justified.
5. after all the probable options, if one is to be just by himself not getting involved absolutely, all of them A B C D E F and off course all family, don't just let him be by himself. They expect this person to simply do something. When He actually does something, one of the persons A B C D E F .... take him to task....

What does one do?

If one has to ignore all these absolutely, then Sanyasam is only way right? Any which ways one or more persons are always left dissatisfied and demand action from this one. But this person is not interested in all these at all. How to exercise Self Enquiry here!
 
Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 30, 2009, 06:12:55 PM
Dear I,

But then, the one that is affirming that the one troubled is not I but only the role such as father etc... is again just one more character right? Because the Consiousness is not troubled in reality, it is not bothered actually whether the character is troubled or not or whether the I is relieved of the trouble or not. So is it not the same 'I' that invents one more character - Witness? So what is happening is that when 'I' affirms that it is not I but just the role, and not 'I' but just the mind, is it not involuntarily, unknowingly playing another character of that of a one who is affirming that it is not this role, but I am the one who is appropriating the roles respectively. So this becomes another role in itself. Its like, in a movie, when the Hero is threatened, the director or the seer, introduces a supporting character to ease the role of the Hero...

But is it not still a character? Its like when the bulb gets fused, we are just replacing it with another bulb, or if the bulb is not giving enough light, we are just replacing it with another high wattage bulb that gives more light or a character that is just able to cope with the situation.

Therefore in the end, what is happening is that the movie just continues and 'I' continues to watch the movie.



'I' just feel, there is something more to investigate, enquire here. Yes at the same time I am also aware that this itself is a hindrance as well. I sense it is something very simple, and it takes no effort at all. But still its like, So near Yet so far, though there is no distance to it or is it a destiny as well.

I have noticed, for all the Vasanas that are of self itself, own vasanas, we are able to apply the Self Enquiry and affirm and ease out, but when the vasanas are from non-self (seems like) then there is absolutely no grip at all.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 30, 2009, 06:32:27 PM
Dear I,

Like you day, yes, thats probably the best 'I' can do... and keep going. probably, like a ripe fruit that falls from the tree on its own accord, some time or the other other, it - role has to go.... will fall of on its own accord.

The thing that was causing a hindrance is that, the 'I' is ready to accept what comes to it, but there is confusion in executing the actions, as to what has to be really done.... like I mentioned in my previous post with an illustration, what does the person do with A B C D E....

Here what comes into the picture is Kartutva, Doership.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 30, 2009, 06:35:36 PM
Karturaajnaya Praapyate Phalam,
Karma Kim Phalam Karma Tajjadam

By the will of the Creator, action bears fruit. Is
action, then, supreme? No, it is inert, unconscious.

We have read and learnt that really the Doer, or the Kartutva is not us but verily the God, or the Self. But in sticky situations, (It seems like) we are supposed/forced to DO SOMETHING, ,,, like in my illustration ABCDEF

There is a need to go through this properly.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 30, 2009, 06:47:24 PM
But then, when the role has to do, respond, what happens here? Does not the role move according to what the director decides? But then how does the role continue? There must be someone to direct it right? which says ok, do this, do that!

Where as the consciousness is just a witness right? how should it matter to it what the role does?
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 30, 2009, 06:55:36 PM
Dear I,

I am having to move out a little, now, cant log on for another couple of hours. These Vasanas from outside, require me to move out of Comp now  ;D catch you later,

Bye

Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: amiatall on December 31, 2009, 01:25:25 AM
But then, when the role has to do, respond, what happens here? Does not the role move according to what the director decides? But then how does the role continue? There must be someone to direct it right? which says ok, do this, do that!

Where as the consciousness is just a witness right? how should it matter to it what the role does?

 
Who is the director?
Role itself plays itself and decides itself, without role you are nothing literally
Pure Knowledge without any form. Now, the director you speak of is role itself.
One must lose oneself in oneself totally, then everything happens spontaneously without any questions of doer or director or role...
Let us just be without any exclusion of anything that happens. That is us.





Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 31, 2009, 07:52:39 AM
Dear I,

Yes, That was the question here. The one that is directing the role is the role itself. Its true that one must lose oneself totally, then everything happpens spontaneously.

"Let us just be without any exclusion of anything that happens. That is us." - is just still only a knowledge right for the role? Therefore when you say "Let us be without any exclusion of anything......" is it not just a role that is deciding this? Because the consciousness is not bothered whether you  decide to be without any exclusion of anything that happens! One one that is saying "That is us." is it not the role again? Is there any necessity for Consciousness to state that it is this? exclusion of all these.....

Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 31, 2009, 10:42:35 AM
Dear I,

Lets keep aside this aspect, about Role merging to self and all. That true that there is no Merging a all, its a delusion. But the discussion is about how to deal it with practical aspect, real time, how are we to deal with the situations, for ex: the illustration ABCDE, what does one do here?

Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 31, 2009, 10:44:47 AM
Dear I,

the discussion is more concerned about practical real life self enquiry.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 31, 2009, 10:47:53 AM
Now,

when the role has to do, respond, what happens here? Does not the role move according to what the director decides? But then how does the role continue? There must be someone to direct it right? which says ok, do this, do that!

Where as the consciousness is just a witness right? how should it matter to it what the role does?

We need to analyse and understand the Kartutvam here.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Vladimir on December 31, 2009, 01:50:50 PM
Quote
Lets keep aside this aspect, about Role merging to self and all. That true that there is no Merging a all, its a delusion. But the discussion is about how to deal it with practical aspect, real time, how are we to deal with the situations, for ex: the illustration ABCDE, what does one do here?

Dear Nagaraj,

You have no such questions in the deep sleep state where there is no a feeling of I Amness at all. Why this must be a problem in the waking state? What happens between states that made you to find answers to these questions?
As Nisargadatta discribes:

"I have come to the firm conclusion that I am nothing, I have no design, no color, I have no image of myself.
In the early morning when the waking state happens, that kiss of beingness appears, vibrant in the entire universe, and vibrating in myself".


Just remember every moment every second nothing happens to you compare to deep sleep sstate. There is no you, "that kiss of beingness" only vibrating during the period which seems to be your waking state.
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: amiatall on December 31, 2009, 03:57:13 PM
Why we need self inquiry in daily life? To remind ourselfs that we are not this nor that. This is practice until it is not practice anymore.
Nagaraj says what should one do in this or that situation, but why we should be concerned about it? For example a situation like Nagaraj described arises, so everything will happen spontaneously according to that moment, just watch.
To my mind the non-doership here is being approached wrongly, as far as non-doership is concerned there is no question what to do in that or this situation.
Now, we clearly know (because we are "self-inquirers"  :D) that in every situation people react almost automatically according to their built up reactions throughout the life.
To not forget who we are automatically stops reactive responses and "activates" active responses, active responses is situation demanding responses and not mind made reactions.
Unconscious -> Conscious.
When human being jumps he doesn't think at that moment, the thinking happens after/before actual event. The thinker is born after/before actual event. Is it not?
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 31, 2009, 07:00:16 PM
Dear I,

You have just mentioned the same question what I just raised:

When human being jumps he doesn't think at that moment, the thinking happens after/before actual event. The thinker is born after/before actual event. Is it not?

Thats what I am asking!, See the jumping only occurs because the thinking happens before or after the event! Can we say jumping happened automatically here? the thinking before has caused the jumping! and thinking afterwards will result in something else!

Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 31, 2009, 07:09:37 PM
Dear I,

"I have come to the firm conclusion that I am nothing, I have no design, no color, I have no image of myself.
In the early morning when the waking state happens, that kiss of beingness appears, vibrant in the entire universe, and vibrating in myself".


Just remember every moment every second nothing happens to you compare to deep sleep sstate. There is no you, "that kiss of beingness" only vibrating during the period which seems to be your waking state.

Yes at most what I can do at most only affirm I's limitedness. what can this I do? it cannot do a thing! What this I can do is only affirm that It does not know. it can just give up!

Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 31, 2009, 07:20:38 PM
Dear I,

Create a Filter Role ... That appropriates the problems of the roles accordingly.

:) I understand why you want to analyze kartutvam ... The understanding that i am not the doer ... is beautiful ... but if i am not the doer ... its difficult to put in intensity into work at times. Please try to understand this carefully. imagine you are playing cricket. Some anxiety is required for you to perform well. We often find emotions are required to do a proper fight. Emotional intelligence --- there is a book --- which talks about the importance of emotions for performing better.

So "I am not the doer" notion cools down all emotions. its very good ... coz it brings all emotions under control ... but it is also dangerous ... coz one will not be able to Express the Emotions where it is needed as well.So as a householder if you are practically trying to do something ... some emotions are required ... but at the same time all emotions must be under control.

So one Knows oneself As Consciousness is not the Doer ... and yet plays the role of a energetic person ... this is the way to do it! Both have to coexist for acting. For renouncing the first is self sufficient.

Love!
Silence

What I am trying to point is the need for anxiety for the role to perform well. Who is it that needs the anxiety and for what? because there is a Self interest here

Emotional Intelligence - Who is it that wants to perform better?

When you are talking about Emotions and its expressions, actually to whom are we showing those emotions? Are we shoowing it to the other persons? It is not really so, we kiss a baby because there is a desire to kiss the baby and enjoy the pleasure of kissing the baby. We actually dont kiss a baby because the baby likes it? The Baby does not laugh at our kissing it, but only out of its own joy, it laughs!

There is no expression at all, if at all there is any expression, it is only for the self interest only. one does not have sex because it is pleasurable for the opposite sex, that the opposite sex enjoys sex. one has sex because one finds pleasure in it. it is a Self interest!

Who is it that is saying "Emotions are required" and who is it that is saying "at the same time all emotions must be uneder control"?

So is there not a motive behind all these reasons? the motive being the continuity of the "I"?

What Self sufficient does the Self need? if at all there is a need for Self Sufficient, it is only for the "I" Jiva alone.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: amiatall on December 31, 2009, 10:33:16 PM
Dear Nagaraj,

Let us move forward then and try to share our understanding. You say that thinking happens before actual event and then after and etc which implies that actual event can only occur after thinking.
Is this your experience?
What I Am trying to imply here is that an actual event Can happen without thinking before/after actual event. Can't it?
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Nagaraj on December 31, 2009, 11:12:18 PM
Dear I,

Yes, a good discussion leads to the light.

An actual event can take place, involuntarily, which seems - without thinking, are only that the thinking process is too fast to be noticed, like those that are a threat to the survival of the body, like when somebody keeps a fire on your hand, there is an automatic reflexes, the thinking process is too fast here, but there is a remembrance of the very first experience of having kept the finger on the fire - this happens so fast, this is called involuntary.

Thinking literally need not necessarily be carefully planned course of action after a detailed analysis. The thinking which you shared about is just that the thinking has already been done for that situation. When you see the clock to see the time, you know already what is hour needle, minute needle and second needle. When you see the time, you involuntarily are able to tell what the time is without any delay.

What you say as "actual events can happen without thinking before/after atual event" is nothing but the thinking process is just too fast for the mind to notice it thats it.

What I understand is that there cannot be any actions performed, or any events happen without any Self Motive. This motive that exists is nothing but the thinking.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

 
Title: Re: What is Self Inquiry?
Post by: Subramanian.R on January 01, 2010, 08:21:19 PM
Self Enquiry is enquiring into the futility of all non-self.  Once
the Truth is found, there is no more practice.  The way and the
goal become one.  See Sri Arunachala Navamani Malai:  Annamalaiyai adiyenai, aNda anre, en aavi udal, koNdai, enakkor
kurai undo?  Kuraiyum gunamum nee allal, ennen ivatrai ennuiyire,
eNNam adhuvo adhu seyvai, KaNNe un dhan kazhal iNiayil kadhal
perukke tharuvaaye.....

Just love and surrender to Bhagavan Ramana.  All roles would take care of themselves.

Arunachala Siva.