The Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ramana Maharshi => The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi => Topic started by: Subramanian.R on July 25, 2008, 12:53:39 PM

Title: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: Subramanian.R on July 25, 2008, 12:53:39 PM
In West, they speak of "grade inflation".  Many many more students
are getting excellent grades in their exams, than the past.  Is it
because, many many more have become more studious and intelligent?
The research shows that it is due the examinations becoming more and
more easy.  When Bhagavan came to Arunachala, He had not read any
books other than Periyapuranam and a few songs of Tayumanavar. It
so happened that Palaniswami brought some books like Kaivalayam
from the town and he was reading them.  Being a Malayalee, he found
it difficult to read Tamil, hence Bhagavan read them for him and in the
process understood that what vedanta describes as self-realization,
He has already had.  Later books were written by Him and on Him and
many books came to His book-shelf. 

But today, seekers have got many many books on Upanishads, Sankara,
other teachers and Bhagavan.  Further, there are e-books, e-forums
e-posts etc., etc., Audio and CDs are aplenty in regard to vedanta. 
Bhakti songs are legion in number, by way of books and music.  Only
no guru has so far taught about  e-Self!

But does it mean there are more realized people today?  It is like
'grade inflation', only the books teaching the 'way have become
more and easier.  The Self-realized persons are hard to see!

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: DRPVSSNRAJU on August 01, 2008, 05:36:19 PM
All the above things are useful for preparation of the mind ripe enough for doing self-enquiry.When the disciple is fit to receive the grace of the master,the master
recognises him and confers self-knowledge.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 14, 2008, 10:50:06 AM
Dear DRPSSVN Raju, all the aids are useful and they
have become plenty nowadays.  But there are several
precautions to be taken.  a) Firstly these are quick
fixes but there is no quickfix for self realization. b)
Many of them are bogus, like small paperbacks that
are there to teach the art of management.  c) All
these books or atleast most of them are written by
people who are not self realized and it is like a blind
leading a blind.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: DRPVSSNRAJU on August 15, 2008, 09:35:07 AM
Dear subramanian,
                           If the aspirant is sincere grace guides him preventing him to go astray.If the seeker is casual he will land in the association of false
people.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 15, 2008, 02:39:06 PM
Dear DRPSSVN Raju,  You are correct.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: DRPVSSNRAJU on August 18, 2008, 10:08:20 AM
Awareness has thought excluding quality,so if we bring more awareness in our daily life there is spontaneous stilling of thought.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 18, 2008, 01:20:09 PM
Dear PVSSN Raju, You are right, when you say, about thought-excluding
activity, because the thoughts are the villain and they create a sense
of doership.  There is a Zen story.  A Zen master was walking on the
banks of a river, with his two students.  They were about to cross the
river, where it was not very deep, but still some shallow water was there.
There was standing there a beautiful girl, who wanted to cross the
river, but was hesitating because her skirt would become wet.  The
Zen Master lifted her up, kept her on his shoulders and crossed the
stream.  On the other bank, he left her and continued to walk.  His
students became restive.  They were murmuring:  O  He is an ascetic,
a celibate, a scholar, a jnani, how can he take the girl on his shoulders
and cross?.  After a few minutes, the students asked the Master,  "Sir,
the girl..... why should you...."  Then the Zen Master repied:-
" Oh, you are telling about that girl?  I have left her a long time back.
Why are you still carrying her?"

Mind and thoughts are the devils,  Not the doership.

Arunachala Siva.
   
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: DRPVSSNRAJU on August 18, 2008, 01:45:15 PM
Dear subramanian,
                        The hang over of the past will be there if we are unaware.Children have less hang over of past than adults.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: nonduel on August 18, 2008, 04:41:38 PM
Dear Subramanian,
Dear DRPVSSNRAJU,

On the subject of thoughts, I have notice that thoughts are more aboundant in the morning. In the evening, it is easier to have a tranquil mind and longer period without thoughts. Also, even with vichara, sometimes he thoughts are so insistant that it is almost impossible to quiet them down. Could you both share your experiences and knowledge on this.

Same with days, sometimes it is almost easy to Self-Enquire.

Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 18, 2008, 05:26:14 PM
Dear DRPVSSN Raju, That is why Jesus said that children
will find it easier to enter into the Kingdom of God, than the elders.
The children are guileless, their experience of the world is much
than elders.  They speak through their hearts and not through their
mind and brain.

Arunachala Siva.

 
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 18, 2008, 05:31:25 PM
My dear non duel,  In my case, thoughts gush forth or quieten without
any specific pattern, be it any time of the day or any day. 
I believe these are from deep rooted vasanas (innate, inherent
tendencies).  Today I read in Indian newspapers, scientists are
working on a thought reading machine, which can also map the brain
waves during thoughts, which is more sophisticated than a lie detector.
But there are certain people, who do not reveal anything even during
a Nacro analaysis!

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: DRPVSSNRAJU on August 18, 2008, 05:44:32 PM
Dear nonduel,
                   I will write my personal experience regarding thoughts.I am visiting Ramanasramam for so many years.There i felt very intense
benign presence which stilled my thought.The effect of single visit used last for many months in terms of level of awareness.When i felt that
thought traffic is increasing i used to stay for quite sometime in Bhagawans presence.In this way many years rolled down peacefully.
On one fine morning when i woke up,i am aware of the surroundings but there is no thought traffic for so many hours.From then onwards
when i wake up from sleep i am free of thought disturbance.In my case there is no diurnal variation in thought traffic but thought traffic will be
at it's lowest level on and around every full moon day.I found that there is relationship between thought traffic and our way of relating
with the others.Then i changed my course of life in such way that there will be no conflict within the house and work place.I sincerely feel that if we can live life without conflict thought will not disturb us just as waves in the sea will not disturb the sea.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 18, 2008, 06:04:31 PM
Dear DRPVSSN Raju,  You are correct.  Thought process vary
with moon-digit.  Scriptures say that the moon is the governing
god for the mind, which produces thought.  Mad people get
maximum disturbance on the full moon day and vice versa.  By
constant practice, we can tell the moon not to disturb us. In
the same way the Power of the Presence of Bhagavan quitens us.
It is for us to seek Bhagavan's grace and become the correct
vessel for the ever flowing grace of Bhagavan.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: nonduel on August 18, 2008, 06:06:47 PM
Thank you both!

I have also noted that when reading, self-attention will increase, the awareness of I AM. Sometimes it will stay for longer period and for a big part of the day. But curiously, I have also noticed that the need to read has become less in the last months. Thus I read books that are more "inspiring", and that "rise" the inner self.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: nonduel on August 18, 2008, 06:50:53 PM
:) But ashtavakra gita says that this trying to still mind is a bondage as that means we are still associating perfecction with a state of mind !

please comment

Love!
Silence

It is not trying to still the mind, but keeping the mind on the I AM, the "I-thought". Vichara.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 18, 2008, 07:26:22 PM
Dear srkudai and non duel, any activity, even that of trying
to still the mind is a bondage.  Bhagavan always said:  BE STILL,
Summa Iru.  He did not say, Try to be still.  The difference is
like, I am going to Tiruvannamalai and I am Tiruvannamalai!

Bhagavan also said, even I shall merge with Brahman is an
activty.  I am Brahman is the correct process.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: mikroth on August 26, 2008, 03:34:34 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian --

I've just got around to reading your initial comments on 'Grade Inflation' with amusement and serious thought !

I guess that's a question for you to answer, being nearer 'the centre of things' !
But it must be a 'karmic' manifestation ?

I would hope that Bhagavan would say, as he did, that the mere thought of Ishwara is the grace of Ishwara and is Ishwara Himself in us !

So rather like what must have happened when printing was discovered -- a huge expansion of 'knowing about' -- as distinct from 'knowing' !

What is your viewpoint on this ?  You set the examination paper -- would you now award the marks ?!
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 26, 2008, 04:40:26 PM
Dear mickroth,  I agree with you.  Gutenburg, Penguin and Pelican
made it easier to read the messages.  In the olden days in India
they were writing in palmyra leaves and only kings were writing in
silken clothes.  The paper and printing machine brought books in
millions and today computers are showing the Rowling books even
before its publications!  The grade inflation stops here.  Exams have become easier and pupils are getting more marks.  But intelligent
students and Self-realized wisemen, Brahma Jnanis, are still counted
in two fingers only!  People pass out from Oxford, Cambridge and
Syracuse in large numbers but there is only one Einstein and after
him, Stephen Hawking.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: mikroth on August 26, 2008, 05:51:09 PM
Dear Sri Subramanian --

This question might be called 'serious fun' !  Are we to consider this a divine equation:-- one world guru = a million readers of his or others' books ? One jnani = a hundred who read a book about the self and forget most of it...?

Should we call for a world-wide survey -- "Would you be happier to know a little more of your real self -- or would you prefer to be as you are, but know that there's a man somewhere who can answer all your questions ?"

It's the stuff of those great spiritual stories -- "A king decided one day to consider the spiritual welfare of his subjects. He went first to a rich man; then to a poor man; then to a merchant; asking them (the question above). The rich man said " I am happy to be as I am : I have as much wealth as I want; I know how to get more; I don't want to know more about myself in case...." !

But if we believe with Bhagavan that 'merely' to think of God is to be God -- for a moment or two -- are we not better off ? Or do our restless thoughts put us further away from the self than a wood-dweller, cutting his wood with care and planting new trees in their place...?

Are we really in the iron age, the kali-yuga, and that is our karma, so we must make the best of it and look to ourselves in peace ?

I think your thoughts (if you don't mind having a few...) are worth quite as much as mine, on this serious-fun question !

But -- like those spray-can messages on public walls -- 'Ramana Lives !'

mikroth
Title: Re: Grade inflation in Self-enquiry
Post by: Subramanian.R on August 26, 2008, 06:29:41 PM
Dear mikroth,  Bhagavan said the following in Who am I?
an advice that was given to Sivaprakasam Pillai, in 1902,
when Bhagavan was just 21.

1. Since all books say that the control of mind is essential for
liberation, as the final truth, there is no point in reading books
endlessly.

2. The Self is within five sheaths.  There is no point in searching
it outside in books.

3. Rama, to know that he is Rama, is a mirror required.

4. As a housewife sweeps and collects and throws away the
garbage, she does not count the categories of the garbage.
Like that, what is the use of counting the 'tattvas', the religious
principles, in various religions.

Then, a question naturally arises, why there should be so many
books? Why should, I, for example, to write about various books
in the Forum.  Bhagavan says, in His prose translation of Viveka
Choodamani, that, as a sugar candy is made of various colours
and shapes, to enable a child to choose what is best for him,
there are many books and seekers can use what is the most
suitable or appealing for them?

There are billions of people in the world.  Millions of readers.
Thousands of seekers.  A few scores choose the right path.
A dozen pursue the path.  A handful falls on the path, tired,
to proceed next day, (next birth).  One reaches the Goal,
becomes the Goal.

Arunachala Siva.