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Ramana Maharshi => General topics => Topic started by: matthias on April 08, 2009, 09:54:51 PM

Title: The Voice of Vajra-Awareness
Post by: matthias on April 08, 2009, 09:54:51 PM
Inspired by Skrudai I would like to start this topic based on Mipham Jampel Dorjes Text...

Mipham was an inspired Dzogchen Yogi who lived from 1846-1912, this text is designed to clarify doubts and to make available a direct expereince of nondual awereness called Rigpa in dzogchen jargon....

I was fortunate to sit with Keith Dowman who was translator of the text and gave a wonderfull 3 day teaching based on the I do this to deepen my understanding and to give access to my understanding of the not take it as a real teaching as my understanding of primordial yoga is very limited but anyway I hope you get some goods from it....I will more or less repeat the teachings of Keith Dowman as much as possible, as he is one of the most important western adepts and dzogchen yogis of our times...his root lama was dudjom rinpoche whos realisation may be seen on fotographs like the following:

lets start with the first verse:

With the sugatas and bodhisattvas of boundless space and all time,
embodying primal awareness in the mode of nonduality,
in the space of sameness wich is Manjusrikumara,
let there be perfect spontaniety in nonaction.

this verse verse could be seen as the essence of refuge in dzogchen buddhism, here the sugatas (the ones who reached "suchness") bodhisattvas are shown in there nondual essence....wich is the space of manjusrikumara (manjusri was the heart son of the garab dorje the first and most important dzogchen master who brought the teachings form india to tibet)

so the refuge is not like usual buddha, dharma and dzogchen you take refuge to the nature of mind...or the great perfection...or to your own nondual awereness

this first verses embody this way of direct refuge....

the last sentence:

"let there be perfect spontaneity in nonaction"

summerises the actual unteachable dzogchen points to the nature of this meditation wich is a nonactive meditation, a nonmeditation....where the mind is solely fixed on the spontaneusly arising moment...not even this, it is not actually "fixed" on the moment....keith always said let your mind hang not fix it on it is indicated here mind is in a state of nonaction....

another beautiful picture for this nonactive meditation is fuond in longchenpas "treasury of natural perfection" goes like this:

"like an old man basking in the sun" this points to nature of this non activity...wich you will find again and again in the scriptures


Title: Re: The Voice of Vajra-Awareness
Post by: matthias on April 08, 2009, 10:12:12 PM
the next verse is about the indentity of the guru and the importance of guru and lineage:

Through devotion that beholds the glorious teacher, the primordial guide,
as identical to the sameness of the dharmakaya,
let the grace of intuition of ultimate meaning move in the heart,
bestowing the magnificent empowerment of creative gnosis

the dzogchen guru is identical to the dharmakaya (the body of thruth) all of his movements and words should be seen as expressions of the natural perfection and as identical with oneself, as soon as you see the guru outside you are on the wrong way....

again it is stated clearly that the actual dzogchen meditaiton and realisation is not "do-able" or fabricated, it is not some technique to gain is an intuition, an empowerment that will occur only in the presence of an authorized teacher...

keith dowman also used a very tough example for the nature of the teacher:

 chögjam trungpa clearly told the sangha who will be his successor, the dharmaholder.
after his passing away... this man became the dharmaholder, after sometime it was known that this man had sex with young boys in the knowledge that he himself was HIV positiv...he had aids..

now there was a split in the community of course on one side the people who made a judgement out of there moral conditioning, on the other hand the people who saw his behaviour as expression of the nature of mind...

a very tough example and I want give my own opinion here

Title: Re: The Voice of Vajra-Awareness
Post by: matthias on April 08, 2009, 10:27:04 PM
and the last verse for today:

It always abides within us, dependant upon neither exertion
nor any special faculty or quality-
through the magic of the teachers precepts
let us recognise the incredible simple secret of the mind

again it is stated that we cannot practice dzogchen meditation, it is not something to be "learned" or "understood" we do not need anything special or any power to do this, keith said that the natural pefection is our birthright...
it is inborn, so no dzogchen yogi is better then the other or superior to the so called "ordinary" person..because it is inborn and not a special new power or insight or state....

the birthright of every beeing even of rocks....maybe one of the biggest differences between the expereince of an insect and a human is the experience of samsara...our experience of samsara is much more refined much more sophisticated, more aspects etc...

the last two sentences give another very important teaching:

through the magic of the teachers precepts
let us recognise the incredible simple secret of the mind

on one side the teacher is important to point out the way and "method" of dzogchen (a paradox of course) and in the last sentence this paradox finds it way into the verse....

it indicates clearly that we need to recognise it for ourselfes, and that this is not a big deal, it is totally simple and is incredible simple, because it is the natural state...not something new or better or superior to any other experience or state that our mind makes...

Title: Re: The Voice of Vajra-Awareness
Post by: Subramanian.R on April 09, 2009, 10:27:03 AM
Dear matthias,

Nice. As the third verse says: "The guru teaches only the nature
of the mind."  Mind is a bundle of thoughts.  Mind cannot live on
its own.  It is called Suskhuma Sarira.  The mind lives with the
thoughts.  When the nature of the mind is known, half the way to
self-realization is crossed.

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: The Voice of Vajra-Awareness
Post by: matthias on April 09, 2009, 01:16:56 PM
yes indeed when the nature of mind is realized the mind is transcended...

you should note that nature of mind is more or less identical with the "Iam" of bhagawan
Title: Re: The Voice of Vajra-Awareness
Post by: matthias on April 09, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
let us continue with the fourth verse:

Discursive tought merely increases the neurosis;
aggressive goal-orientation just causes fatigue;
and referential meditation locks us tighly in a cage:
let all plaguing fixations crumble from within.

thi shows clearly the radical approach of genuine dzogchen, keith dowman uses this metaphor for it: in dzogchen one is simply thrown into the ocean, the view itself does not care if the person can swim or not

the first line talking about the neurosis superimposed on reality....we want to grasp and understand what this moment is, what reality is, but this thinking and philospical discurs just covers the natural understanding that is inherent in every thinking process...the more we search the self or nature of mind in our thoughts the more we are identified with them, the stronger the neurosis...

the next line talks about goal orientation, and is concluded in hte third "fight" for the self or realistaion causes can be helpfull in the beginning, and the greatest sages show an incredible longing, a longing that is far deeper then anything we know...but this longing alone will not cause is indeed a great hurdle, not to think one becomes stuck there for the rest of his life, I guess he//she would commit suizide (also a metaphor that is used in the srciptures alot, when one is exhausted from the seeking one may attain realisation or die).....

goal orientation or referential meditation lock in a cage says the third line, it is meant that if we sit down to attain enlightment we will fail, as enlightment is unattainable, it is no goal, it is the absence of goal and path ...
it may dawn if we stop to think enlightment is something we will atain if we meditate or do good deeds...
because this will lock is in a cage, the cage of meditation, as long as enlightment is our goal we will not attain it...because attaining is not part of enlightment, you cannot become what you are, one cannot create reality, one cannot become what he allready is....
so meditaiotn with a goal, or a reference (a mantra, a picture of god, even if you choose your own self as object for the meditation the meditaiton will lock you into a cage, because you cannot be the object of your own self....this creates a duality where there is non)

so his advice is the last sentence:

let all plaguing fixations crumble from within

in dzogchen you get a transmission, not unlike shaktipath, you are introduced to your true nature, this beeing a nondual awereness flame, that deconstructs all wrong notions and in the end deconstructs even itself....

sounds like atma vichara for me....
Title: Re: The Voice of Vajra-Awareness
Post by: Subramanian.R on April 09, 2009, 05:44:13 PM
Dear matthias,

The word Saktinipadham, you have used, if I am correct.  In all
sects of Hinduism, the male principle and the female principle
are always worshipped together.  I do not think there is any female
godhead in any other religion, possibly Jainism which depicts a female
form, (they call it Saraswati!).  The female principle, is the seamless
conduit which takes the devotee to the male principle.  There is no
Narayana without Lakshmi.  She is said to reside in His right chest!
(Ramana!).  It is she who guides the devotee to Narayana.  There is
no Siva without Uma. Uma resides on the entire left side of Siva.  It is she who guides the devotee to Siva.  You may call them really "the
better half"!  What are they?  They are the Self and the Grace. Grace is always feminine.  Even in Christianity, girls are named Grace!
The Grace of the female principle, is Saktinipadham. There is one
name in Sri Ramana Ashottaram:  Om Maha Sakti Nipatena Prabhuddhaya Namah!  Salutations to the One who woke up with the grace of Maha Sakti!  This Sakti Nipadam or grace of Maha Sakti, is "the touch of the untouch", if one can use the Zen phraseology.

Arunachala Siva.       
Title: Re: The Voice of Vajra-Awareness
Post by: matthias on April 09, 2009, 10:12:24 PM
so the power of the lineage or transmission is always the feminin aspect? that is an interessting view....

yes it is true in a way even zin they say "shin" to indicate the realisation shin equals heart-mind or better big heart big mind

big mind beeing presence, unchangeing, ungrasping totally holistic presence wheres big heart is also this presence but has the ability to be compassionate, it is the active part of presence

they also say that bigmind is wisdome and big heart is compassion...but one is not possible without the other...

is there also a link here?

so grace and transmission or saktipath (I do not know the correct sansjrit rendering in english, a siddha yoga thing) is the female aspect....the aspect of compassion...wheress contemplation is the male atribute...

please clear my doubts and missunderstandings

Title: Re: The Voice of Vajra-Awareness
Post by: Subramanian.R on April 10, 2009, 10:59:20 AM
Dear matthias,

You are correct.  Sakti is the grace of divine power which descends
on a fit devotee, to guid him to Godhead.  She represents heart,
the seat of compassion, Maha Karuna.  God or Siva is Maha Prajna,
the great Wisdom.  Both constitute Sat-Chit-Anandam.  It is, yes,
a Sanskrit word, used more by Saiva Siddhantis.  Even Chinese
have got some twin words, to represent male and female principles.
In Jainism, Saraswati the goddess confers knowledge to the devotee to place him with the Godhead.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: The Voice of Vajra-Awareness
Post by: matthias on April 10, 2009, 11:32:33 AM
good  ;)

thank you
Title: Re: The Voice of Vajra-Awareness
Post by: matthias on April 21, 2009, 09:59:36 PM
verse number 5

Inconcievable, inexpressible, there is nothing to see
and nothing remaining to be seen;
with conviction in the nature of mind, the only true meaning,
let us realize what is so difficult to be shown to us.

a wonderfull verse the first two lines say us clearly: you cannot see it, there is nothing really! But what are we doing in our meditaiton? we try to focus on something (the I-thought for example, or hte feeling of beeing)...this is not pure meditation....because we think that the "I-thought" or the "beeingness" is a object and we use our willpower to concentrate on it...

so we try to make the subject that sees a something that we can see.

But actually listen:

Inconcievable, inexpressible, there is nothing to see
and nothing remaining to be seen;

so why use willpower to see something when there is nothing to be seen? just rest and relaxe into the natural here and concentration, no technique neccessary...this is dzogchen..a big AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH and let go into what allready is our condition...

then we need conviction in the nature of mind--> we need to know what the "self" is, or the nature of mind in dzogchen terminology....when we have understood what it is, when we had first insights and expereinces...when we have the knowledge we can relaxe, we know what we search, we know how it feels, we know it more and more...and we know that it is EVER we need not look for it and use tonns of psychic energy to "reach" it....quiete the contrary is the way: be natural, just relaxe into your own state of mind with the knowledge that this state of mind is allready genuine nondual awereness...

everything superimposed over the natural state will melt away.....

the last sentence is clear I think:

let us realize what is so difficult to be shown to us.