Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 768506 times)

srkudai

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5295 on: December 02, 2017, 06:55:08 AM »
Dear Nishta,
       :)

Quote
As you say it cannot be done. Isn?t that the point! Was not Maharshi saying, try and see if it can be done, and it will be found it cannot be done.

This is very different isnt it ?

what is placing attention on the I-thought ? What is placing attention on awareness or I AM Feeling ? what is this ?


Love!
Silence

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3591
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5296 on: December 03, 2017, 10:34:39 AM »
Quote:

"Thought hai na bhai, it wont stay. it has to pass away?"


"How can awareness pay attention to awareness ? Awareness is not an object. 
if you are saying its concentrating on the heart center ... people have known it for ages. one gains concentration from that, i do not deny.
but is that what ramana said ?"
"Please do not get angry with me, i am simply asking questions. if you are paying attention, ... it has to be an object , the subject cannot be payed attention to. so awareness cannot watch awareness. what is really meant ?"






Dear Sri Udai,

It is the ego-mind which initiates the Great Enquiry, but the ego-mind is not real. So, just as it is not necessary to kill the rope, the true Knowledge (Self) which one imagines to be a snake, likewise, on investigation the fantastic snake disappears into rope, and the ego-mind delusion which seems to exist only because it is not enquired into becomes non-existent when thus enquired into.

Dear Sri Udai, yes, of course the  Self alone knows the Self. Awareness alone know the Awareness. Ego cannot, it must disappear, its unreality or its form must be known through Enquiry. If we do that, it will disappear. What does happen? Investigation is launched by the ego-mind, which partakes of both--consciousness as well as the matter. However, it is common experience of all those who practice Enquiry that the moment the ego-self tires to know itself, it begins to change its character; it begins to partake less and less of the jada or the matter in which it has remained absorbed so far, and more and more of the consciousness of the Self. This is the experience.

Yes, Knowledge is knowing the Knowledge by Knowledge Itself. Yes, of course, the Self is known by the Self by being the Self, as it were. And please, listen to me: Until, the Knowledge is known by Knowledge Itself, mind cannot have perfect peace, and will remain in agitation as is evident.


Thanks very much, dear friend, Sri Udai,
Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:50:57 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3591
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5297 on: December 03, 2017, 10:37:13 AM »
Quote:
"what is placing attention on the I-thought ? What is placing attention on awareness or I AM Feeling ? what is this ?"


Dear Sri Udai,

If you would have practiced Sri Bhagwan's Vichara even a little, such questions, I am sure, wouldn't have arisen.  However, since, no reply from any one of us here can ever satisfy or placate you, except that of your own, I would rather suggest you to go though 'Talks', 'Maharshi's Gospel', 'Who Am I?', 'Day by Day with Bhagwan', 'Spiritual Instruction', 'Self Enquiry', etc., to understand for yourself what the above terms really mean.  I do not wish to endlessly argue, for I am not here to score debating points.

However, since you are not able to understand or pretend not to understand, I would rather like to point out and not suggest, that Sri Bhagwan, in such a case, advised one to incessantly think 'I, I, I, I, I, ......' till it leads to the state of Brahman, that is, the unerring Knowledge that nothing  exists except the one Reality. That there is no birth or death, no projection or drawing in, no seeker, no bondage, no liberation, nothing whatsoever. The one Reality alone exists. Bhagwan Sri Ramana has said that this is the best Japa.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
 Anil
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:44:24 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3591
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5298 on: December 03, 2017, 11:08:55 AM »
Quote:
"There is no ego, yet Maharshi decreed, hold the ego or seek the ego. Why"

"As you say it cannot be done. Isn't that the point! Was not Maharshi saying, try and see if it can be done, and it will be found it cannot be done.  It will be found what was thought to be there, is not there. In answer to your question what is really meant, this is what is really meant!"






Dear Sri Nishta, yes, ego-self being unreal, when enquired into, first it becomes clearer or palpable for further inspection and then takes to flight, and the Self is revealed, and all doubts and confusions come to rest, just as on investigation the fantastic snake disappears into the rope, which is the reality.

Pranam,
 Anil

srkudai

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5299 on: December 03, 2017, 08:22:36 PM »
Dear Anil ji,
          :)

Quote
If you would have practiced Sri Bhagwan's Vichara even a little, such questions, I am sure, wouldn't have arisen.

:) _/\_

Quote
Holding or clinging to the consciousness 'I' is attending or paying attention, with a keen mind, (Attention is reflection of the Power of the Self) to the awareness of Existence-Consciousness, 'I Am', which no one can deny, and thereby gaining greater and greater intensity of CONCENTRATION upon it.

is this self inquiry

or is it inquiry to see that there is no "I" and thus just be ?

please see Anil ji, i am not trying to criticize here. all i am trying to say is "CONCENTRATION" does not seem to be really Self Inquiry.
The "I" is never there, this discovery is not "KEEN CLINGING" ... its not "HOLDING" ... it is rather "Leaving" or "Dropping off"
I am trying to present a disagreement with some views. Thats all. And holding or clinging to any feeling or idea or place is not a means to drop off ... infact its recognition that the i has already dropped off.

BTW : this view is directly from upadesha saram : manasantu kim margane krite naiva manasam marga arjavat ... it does not say concentrate on what is mind ... concentration is perpetuation .. it says look whence is this sense of i arises ... which means to listen ... to observe like ... suppose a sound arises, where is it arising from ... and one sees none and so just remains ... without an i ... for this no waiting is required and its not any hardwork.

Now in saying this, or questioning towards this if i have hurt you , i am sorry for that.
Our aim in spiritual life is to remain calm does not mean we need to avoid debates to be calm... if i am troubled by simple online debates, that is really the place for me to be , since thats where the vasana is arising , otherwise it might remain dormant.

Love!
Silence

Nishta

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5300 on: December 04, 2017, 04:07:24 AM »
BTW : this view is directly from upadesha saram : manasantu kim margane krite naiva manasam marga arjavat ... it does not say concentrate on what is mind ... concentration is perpetuation .. it says look whence is this sense of i arises ...


Thank you for this reminder Udai.
I note Maharshi stated the question "who am I?", actually means where has this I thought arisen from.

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3591
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5301 on: December 04, 2017, 10:55:40 AM »
Quote from my own post:
"Holding or clinging to the consciousness 'I' is attending or paying attention, with a keen mind, (Attention is reflection of the Power of the Self) to the awareness of Existence-Consciousness, 'I Am', which no one can deny, and thereby gaining greater and greater intensity of CONCENTRATION upon it."


Quote from Sri Udai's post:
"is this self inquiry

or is it inquiry to see that there is no "I" and thus just be ?"

"please see Anil ji, i am not trying to criticize here. all i am trying to say is "CONCENTRATION" does not seem to be really Self Inquiry.
The "I" is never there, this discovery is not "KEEN CLINGING" ... its not "HOLDING" ... it is rather "Leaving" or "Dropping off"
I am trying to present a disagreement with some views. Thats all. And holding or clinging to any feeling or idea or place is not a means to drop off ... infact its recognition that the i has already dropped off."

"BTW : this view is directly from upadesha saram : manasantu kim margane krite naiva manasam marga arjavat ... it does not say concentrate on what is mind ... concentration is perpetuation .. it says look whence is this sense of i arises ... which means to listen ... to observe like ... suppose a sound arises, where is it arising from ... and one sees none and so just remains ... without an i ... for this no waiting is required and its not any hardwork."





Dear Sri Udai,

Q: Am I to think 'Who am I?'
Sri Bhagwan: You have known that the 'I'-thought springs forth. Hold the 'I'-thought and find its source.




Dear Sri Udai, 'I'-thought springs forth and sinks, appears and disappears, while the real 'I', the Existence Itself, remains as It ever Is. So, if one seeks to hold the 'I'-thought, it disappears or drops off, as you said. What remains behind after the disappearance of the 'I'-thought is the infinite Space of Existence-Consciousness, which is the Source from where springs forth the 'I'-thought. Hence, it is crystal-clear to almost everyone, at least in this forum, why Sri Bhagwan taught to hold the 'I'-thought and find its Source, but not you. Only if you would have studied Sri Bhagwan's great Teaching of Vichara, with an open mind, and practiced the same a little, you would have certainly understood and known beyond doubt whatever that holding the 'I'-thought and finding its source amounts to dropping it, and remaining as mere being.

In the beginning, attention to the feeling 'I' is a mental activity in the form of a thought or a perception. As one progresses, the 'I'-thought gives way to a subjectively experienced feeling of 'I', and when this feeling fails to connect with a thought or a perception, it will sure vanish completely, for, it cannot survive without holding onto a form. Experience of pure being alone remains in which the sense of individuality ceases to operate, albeit temporarily. Though intermittent, this experience is firmed up with repeated practice. This is how the state of effortlessness is reached, practicing Sri Bhagwan's Vichara; in this state there is an effortless awareness of being in which individual effort is not possible because the individual temporarily ceases to exist, that is, until it rises again on account of the residual vasanas or predispositions. Since the 'I'-thought periodically still reasserts, this is not the Self-realization Sri Bhagwan speaks of. However, repeated experience of pure being destroys the residual vasanas or the mental tendencies which causes the 'I'-thought to reappear. Sri Bhagwan has taught that the power of the Self then destroys the residual tendencies so completely that the 'I'-thought never rises again. This alone is final and irreversible State of Self-realization Sri Bhagwan speaks of.
 
Only enquiry into scriptures is not enough. It is said that an ounce of practice is better than tons of theoretical knowledge.



Quote:
"Now in saying this, or questioning towards this if i have hurt you , i am sorry for that.
Our aim in spiritual life is to remain calm does not mean we need to avoid debates to be calm... if i am troubled by simple online debates, that is really the place for me to be , since thats where the vasana is arising , otherwise it might remain dormant."




No, I am neither angry nor hurt at all. What makes you think so?  Sri Bhagwan's Grace has gradually enabled me to transcend these differences and see the anger, hurt, sorrow, joy, et al, in right perspective, and remain calm, if not in all circumstances, then at least as far as possible at this stage of Sadhana.



Thanks very much, dear friend.
Pranam,
 Anil 
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 11:02:42 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4035
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5302 on: December 05, 2017, 07:32:41 AM »
Anil/udai/Friends,
Nice discussion...many a times we may mean the same thing but employ different 'words' to express the same truth.
The words 'Hold' and 'concentration' are to be understood in their proper context.
The word 'concentration' is often used to refer to focusing the mind on a particular object or objective...and this ofcourse has its utility and purpose...no denying that.
The word is also used to refer to the process of sifting the essence from the non essence...and this is what Anil has referred to...and this is what is 'Vi chara'(It is wrongly translated into english as 'enquiry' or 'inquiry').

This 'Vichara' is referred to and expressed in many ways by great ones but they all mean the same...Here are a couple of examples:
1.Appar Swamigal's tevaram:
விறகில்-தீயினன், பாலில் படு நெய் போல்
மறைய நின்றுளன்---மா மணிச்சோதியான்;
உறவுகோல் நட்டு, உணர்வுகயிற்றினால்
முறுக வாங்கிக் கடைய, முன் நிற்குமே

VIRAGIL THEEYINAN PAALIL PADU NEIPOL
MARAIYA NINDRULAN- MAAMANICH CHOHDHIYAAN
URAVU KHOL NATTU UNARVU KAYITTRINAAL
MURUGA VAANGIK KADAIYA MUN NIRKUMAY

Like Oil in Firewood,like butter in milk
Latent abides He-The Resplendent great gem
Planting the Churn-staff of relationship,
Churning with the rope of awareness,
(He) shall stand patent.

2.Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
The mind is like milk. If you keep the mind in the world, which is like water, then the milk and water will get mixed. That is why people keep milk in a quiet place and let it set into curd, and then churn butter from it. Likewise, through spiritual discipline practised in solitude, churn the butter of knowledge and devotion from the milk of the mind. Then that butter can easily be kept in the water of the world. It will not get mixed with the world. The mind will float detached on the water of the world.

To concentrate and extract the butter of knowledge that is present so to say in a diffused form as milk and water(mind and world) is the objective of sadhana...and the churning effort that is necessary is sadhana...it would not do to say that butter is already there and nothing more is needed to extract it...and how much effort is necessary depends on how much effort has already been put in this direction...and for each one it will vary depending on that...and it is only the inner guru who knows how and when that ripe moment shall be.

It will not do to tell anyone 'Look...This is so simple...You are already that...Just be'....Had it been so simple Bhagavan would have said that...Yes,he does say that in Atma Vidhya Keertanam 'Atma Vidhya ,Lo Is simple'(athi sulabham) ...and yet he does say that effort is needed and this effort is also a functioning of Grace only...effort is needed to make the 'difficult' turn 'simple'
Yes,the sadhaka should not be bothered about whether it is simple or difficult....all that he needs to be aware of is that this vidhya or learning is the supreme science and the very purpose of life and it is a privilege to be interested and devoted to it and pursue it with unflagging zeal....Results do not matter!

As Sri Aurobindo in that wonderful chapter 'Four aids'(this is the ultimate blue print for any sadhaka!) in 'Synthesis of Yoga' says:
Time is the remaining aid needed for the effectivity of the process. Time presents itself to human effort as an enemy or a friend, as a resistance, a medium or an instrument. But always it is really the instrument of the soul. Time is a field of circumstances and forces meeting and working out a resultant progression whose course it measures. To the ego it is a tyrant or a resistance, to the Divine an instrument. Therefore, while our effort is personal, Time appears as a resistance, for it presents to us all the obstruction of the forces that conflict with our own. When the divine working and the personal are combined in our consciousness, it appears as a medium and condition. When the two become one, it appears as a servant and instrument.

The ideal attitude of the Sadhaka towards Time is to have an endless patience as if he had all eternity for his fulfillment and yet to develop the energy that shall realise now and with an ever-increasing mastery and pressure of rapidity till it reaches the miraculous instantaneousness of the supreme divine Transformation.

I have posted the 'Four Aids' chapter in this forum:
http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7216.0

If the inner ruler and guru knows what is right and appropriate for each and everyone,where is the need for me to go about tutoring and mentoring anyone?Truly that is not at all necessary...and often it may be our enthusiasm that is prompting us to do so ...and this is a welcome thing provided we are ready to understand what the other person has to say and why he is saying that...and all discussions will be more fruitful and beneficial for everyone of us...so,discussions and debates are quite okay and need not be abstained from as long as they serve the larger purpose of gaining clarity and conviction.

Namaskar
P.S: I shall post on 'Hold' and its usage from a very pithy couplet in Tirukkural a little later!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 09:59:21 AM by Ravi.N »

srkudai

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5303 on: December 05, 2017, 09:43:05 PM »
Dear Ravi ji,
        :)

Quote
The word is also used to refer to the process of sifting the essence from the non essence..
     
     :) Thank you.

Love!
Silence

ksksat27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 953
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5304 on: December 07, 2017, 09:26:11 AM »
Dear Ravi sir, Anil Sir, Uday ji,

actually what Udai follows is traditional vedanta based approach rooted in chimaya mission school of thoughts.

what Anil sir, me and many Ramana devotees follow is pure self enquiry exactly as propounded by Maharishee in the small book who am i.

though the terms look similar there is major difference in the approach.

Bhagavan has clearly told in who am i, the difference between Dhyana ( he meant Bhava meditation) and Self Enquiry.

that is why in one sense it is not useful to engage in a conversation with Udai on self enquiry.  udai is not a person here.  It is a school of thought rooted in traditional vedanta. Chinmaya mission and Dayanada Saraswathi encouraged that branch.

only in permanent self realization and jivan mukta state the two paths merge. until then the route is completely different with only similar terms like jnana, abyasa,  nishta, samadhi , sahaja, etc. being common.

Some people may ask then if Ramana Maharishee was not propouding traditional vedanta.  in Maharishee times someone asked Maharishee about Sankaras teachings in a bid to compare it with Maharishee.

in my opinion, our Maharishee is unique,  his philosophy may be advaita or ajata but his methods are fully unique and that is totally fresh from even Sankara school of thoughts. 

« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 09:28:26 AM by ksksat27 »

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4035
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5305 on: December 07, 2017, 09:53:51 AM »
ksksat,
in my opinion, our Maharishee is unique,  his philosophy may be advaita or ajata but his methods are fully unique and that is totally fresh from even Sankara school of thoughts.
Yes,this is an opinion and I have already responded on this in the rough note book thread.
I am clear that udai and anil are referring to the same essence...only the use of words is causing a difference in understanding...and I am absolutely sure what vichara means in practice as well and there just cannot be any variation to it although descriptions vary.
Namaskar


ksksat27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 953
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5306 on: December 08, 2017, 09:07:25 AM »
Dear Anil sir

no matter how elaborate you explain,  the standpoint and perception Udai takes is entirely different.  chinmaya school of thoughts does use concentration, awareness, bhava, understanding etc.

I dont think these discussions will lead anywhere as Udai will never accept our position of practice of self enquiry as told by Maharishee.

self attedning to itself or clinging to the I thought or feeling the innermost sense of existence or innermost I sense etc. is the practice.  one line is enough to tell our method and no matter how much ways we explain Udai will not get what we are trying convey.

i am perfectly fine with that.  Udai has a different path and it will never have the practice as common aspect as that of maharishee school.

that is why in the first instance i told that the positions we take are entirely different.

srkudai

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5307 on: December 08, 2017, 12:10:54 PM »
Dear ksksat27,
         :) I do not belong to the Chinmaya School :) or Dayananda School of thought.
My affiliation is to the Truth, not to a particular person or school of thought. If you have read my other posts I study a lot of Buddhism as well - Thich Nhat Hanh, Ajanh Brahm, alan walace etc. [I am not affiliated to buddism even :) ].

Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi points to the Truth , so does Sri Ramakrishna or Buddha ... and also the upanishads ...
if we delve deeply into the teachings, we discover the same Truth expressed.

The best description for me, if you want to label me as such ... is "udai inquires into truth". anything else one adds to it, may not be accurate enough. :)

Love!
Silence


eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3591
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5308 on: December 09, 2017, 12:19:18 PM »
Quote from Sri Krishna:
"in my opinion, our Maharishee is unique,  his philosophy may be advaita or ajata but his methods are fully unique and that is totally fresh from even Sankara school of thoughts."

"self attending to itself or clinging to the I thought or feeling the innermost sense of existence or innermost I sense etc. is the practice.  one line is enough to tell our method and no matter how much ways we explain Udai will not get what we are trying convey."



Dear Sri Krishna,

Yes, I concur. Bhagwan Sri Ramana is unique to say the least. While all Sages realized the same Truth, but the methods they pointed out to attain that Truth were certainly different. Therefore, though I am aware that there is essential unity underlying all spiritual matters, I also understand that other than Sri Bhagwan, Sage and Guru Sri Vasishta and other ancient Sages, only Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and a few Zen Masters taught the Direct Path of the Atma-vichara or the Self-enquiry, and they too are not quite the same except in the end where all sadhanas whatsoever coverge. I have absolutely no doubt about it. Yes, it is true that everyone eventually has to come to practice 'Self-abidance or the Self-attention or Just Be' to realize the Self, for this is the essential toll everyone has to pay, but nevertheless, this does not certainly mean that all paths, all methods including 'I am Brahman' meditation or the 'neti-neti', etc. are the same as Sri Bhagwan's Vichara as it was revealed and enjoined by Him. All paths before Realization converge at Self-abidance, just as all mountaineers have to finally reach the Point South Col to ascend finally to the Mount Everest from where the Great Peak is visible. But certainly paths leading to the South Col or to the Self-abidance are different. Are they not? Of course Sri Bhagwan revealed a new path, which is a fusion of Jnana and Bhakti, most appropriate in the modern age, free from dogmas, rituals etc., to be practiced by anyone anywhere, that is, even amidst the intense activities. It is not for nothing that Sri Bhagwan uttered:     
"This is the Direct method, whereas all other methods are done only by retaining the ego. In those paths there arise so many doubts and the eternal question 'Who am I?' remains to be tackled finally. But in this method the final question is the only one and it is raised from the very beginning."


Dear Sri Krishna, howsoever much they may argue, fact is this that Vichara is both the process as well as the Goal. 'I am' is the Goal and the final Reality.
Sri Bhagwan: To hold to it with effort is vichara. When natural and effortless it is Realization.

Therefore, there is no doubt as to what really Vichara is.  Besides, it is well-known that Sri Bhagwan didn't enjoin, in general, the 'I am Brahman' meditation or the 'neti-neti', saying that they are mental. One proceeds to discard the not-Self, and this is neti. Sri Bhagwan says that this can be only done by holding to the one which cannot be discarded. That is 'ITI' alone, and   this is Vichara.  Hence, in my view, they are not able to grasp the subtle difference Between Sri Bhagwan's Vichara, the Process, and not the Goal (the Goal is same for all paths) to be taken up from the very beginning, and the Enquiry as expounded in Vedanta and elsewhere.     


Therefore, however much they may argue otherwise, I reiterate that  in my view, as in the view of so many of His devotees, Bhagwan Sri Ramana went one step beyond by teaching that there is no God apart from the person who sees Him, that there is no one who is not aware of his own being, that one's own being is God's being and that being is both the Self and God, and last but not the least, that by holding onto the subjective awareness one can easily realize That which Is.

I sometimes wonder at the queer attempt some who owe self-admittedly allegiance to some other Gurus make only to prove that there is nothing new or fresh or radical about Bhagwan Sri Ramana's Revelation. And that too in a forum which is committed to disseminate His Life and His great Teaching at large!! I wish they would have indicated where such similar Teaching on Direct Path is available so that we may all benefit. 


Thanks very much, dear Sri Krishan.
Pranam,
 Anil


Note: dear devotees, with the onset the winter season in North India, I have contracted severe cough and cold, and therefore, due to this and engagements elsewhere,   I shall continue to visit the forum only off and on for some more time. Anil
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 12:57:30 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

srkudai

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #5309 on: December 09, 2017, 01:04:49 PM »
Dear Anil ji,
      :)

Quote
I sometimes wonder at the queer attempt some who owe self-admittedly allegiance to some other Gurus make only to prove that there is nothing new or fresh or radical about Bhagwan Sri Ramana's Revelation.   

I did not know that there is another guru, sorry for that Anil ji.
I was of the opinion that there is only One Guru ...


"allegiance " :)  ? is it a political party Anil ji?


Love!
Silence

« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 01:17:14 PM by srkudai »